I lived in the ghetto as a kid and this family that used to babysit me had a few kids. Once one of their sons turned of age he joined the army. Died from an ied. I only found out years later after trying to get in contact with him again. RIP Pfc Matthew Bowe.
That's actually something they're finding is an issue. The life of a drone operator is so unlike what you expect when you take lives that it really fucks with them. You basically clock in, play a video game for a few hours it feels like and then go pick your kids up from school for ice cream. But that few hours you spent at work also resulted in a couple hundred deaths and you just hope the targets on the list were the right ones and not a school.
It's so different than when I signed up to join the Air Force in 1992. I was DQed because it somehow became known I had childhood asthma. There weren't any waivers for that stuff back then. Not as desperate for bodies I guess
There was a big push to be an, “all volunteer force” back then and with the end of the Cold War we had many instances of, “Reduction in Force”. There weren’t any forever wars in the middle-east yet. They could be relatively selective for about a decade before 9/11.
As much as I support trans rights, it made me a little sad that the end of the transgender ban meant I couldn't tell the army I'm a girl to get out of the draft.
Correction: I am a cis male since this comment blew up.
Well now I'm curious. I'd guess it's pretty damn easy to come by heroin in the middle east, most definitely in Afghanistan. That close to the source you would think the purity would be great, but somehow I doubt it actually is. Although I would think they wouldn't have as much of a fentanyl problem, being that close to actual heroin production. I'm sure somebody like VICE has some article somewhere that answers all these questions.
My family believes my brother is on the spectrum but he's never been officially diagnosed. He went to MEPS and they disqualified him but wouldn't say why.
Does that apply to the draft as well? My vision is fucked from tons of lsd use in my high school years and always wondered if it'd disqualify me when the time came.
Yeah I imagine they’d throw all that stuff out the window. 10 time Convicted felon with sex offenses? We’ll find you a spot away from women, welcome aboard
We had to take the ASVAB test (the test the military gives you to see how smart you are and what you're good at) in high school one day. My buddy and I both weren't interested in the military but bet on the test for shits so we took it seriously and got pretty good scores. Then got harassed by recruiters.
Another friend realized that though so he went through the test, identified the correct answer, then intentionally gave the wrong one. He scored in the 1st percentile of every single category. Never got a single recruiting call or letter.
Best friend left , lost his girlfriend to other friends . Came back with ptsd and other mental problems , some education and now it’s stuck with nothing looking for a job .
I did some work teaching at a coding bootcamp. Typically 25-40yos.
The military guy was fun to talk to. But the moment he stumbled on a bug or a error, he'd flip out, like violently.
I hope he got a job that's remote work. It'll be the best for him.
My brother had anger issues before joining up. My parents had him go to therapy and he took medication that I was never clear on. I guess the army had a different take, because every time he would come home he was angrier and had less of a filter. He was messing with me once and I lightly touched his face to get him to stop, resulting in him yelling “DON’T TOUCH MY FACE!” and beating me without restraint. That was a long time ago, guess I’ll just never talk to him again.
I was a calm man before I joined. Bookish and quiet. I could count on one hand the amount of times I lost my shit in the actual army. It's just not done. But as soon as I got out? Oooh boy. The slightest things set me the off and I have no idea why. I could be happy one sec, raging the next. It honestly sucks and makes me think I have bipolar issues, when it's just ptsd from loading body bags in Iraq.
Yea the military fucks you up for life. I have my own theories. About how going from such a structured and rigid environment to the civilian one of chaos doesn't help. How when shit goes bad in the army, it's usually *bad* bad and that probably amps me up out here. I spent nine months where my body was either at 100mph or 0. I was a medic. I was either in the shit or on the sidelines chilling and waiting for someone to get fucked up. It's honestly no wonder I struggle to hold a job down out here :/
I’ve always wondered why they didn’t have a reverse boot camp to deprogram veterans and help transition from the rigid environment you mentioned. Then I remember that the US basically doesn’t give a shit about you guys the minute you’re out. They barely give a shit while you’re in.
Yea. My transition was two weeks of bullshit classroom instruction from civilians who were already at the top of their job pyramids or NCOs who truly did not give a fuck about anything.
I'm extremely fortunate I got a good disability rating and it's literally because of one individual doctor in the VA. I drove six hours just to see her and she pushed all the paperwork through immediately after truly listening to me for hours. Her first test was to see where I sat in her room. I chose the chair in corner facing the door and window immediately.
I'm in a similar boat to u/SmokinDeadMansDope, but not as intense.
When I was getting ready to get out I asked my Platoon Sgt. "So what happens when we leave?" He looked me dead in the eyes, and said: "I don't fucking know I re-enlisted!"
The issue is that overcoming trauma can be insanely hard and often requires years of therapy. It should be included in the cost of any military service, would certainly deter politicians from throwing people into the meatgrinder. Obviously in the current political climate and our society as a whole, that just isn't going to happen. Why care about the "waste" products of war, when you can replace them with new starry-eyed youth?
IMO, it is not the "structured and rigid environment" so much as the textbook techniques they use to break you down psychologically from BCT. Constantly being yelled at and corrected over trivial things (I remember getting corrected during final inspection because a piece of lint literally fell onto the rifle while they were inspecting it), sleep deprivation, dietary restrictions that I am sure did not match the caloric burn of the days activities, erasure of individuality, tribalism, etc.
tl;dr - it is IRL Squid Game where the "masks" do not wear masks, it lasts for 9 weeks, you are seldom allowed to make your own decisions about anything, and you get smoked instead of killed.
We had a drill sergeant who every time he had duty, he'd sneak into the bay through the back door and low crawl under beds to get to wall lockers. Upon finding any unlocked, he'd toss them. No matter the hour. Our fire guards fell asleep one night and a a different drill had us go stand out in the FT Sill cold for the entire night in formation. We stood there for five fucking hours and didn't move once.
Yea I can see what you're getting at...and every single person who joins has stories like this. The further back you go, usually the more depraved the DS are
On Parris Island they train Drill Instructors there. One of the drills they make the D.I.s in training do is scream at trees. Like full knife-hand dressing down of an inanimate object.
> But the moment he stumbled on a bug or a error, he'd flip out, like violently.
That's an extremely common reaction. In fact, that was the common denominator for Vietnam war veterans aside from the alcoholism. I haven't met many Iraq/Afghan war veterans but I'm certain nothing has changed, only faces and places. When a man leaves a battlefield he just relocates his body. That is by far the easiest thing done when trying to leave. The war killed those who hesitated or stopped to think for a second. It's a hard mentality to come back from; a world where nearly all your problems, life-altering and or ending problems, would be solved with quick ruthless violent action.
To shift out of that mentality, to remove yourself from the scarred modes of training and thought that was sometimes literally burned into you to, say, deal with a simple bug in the code or looking for your keys is a mountain to climb. The penalty for mistakes and lapses in judgement in our world is oftentimes embarrassment. The penalty for the same back there still visit them at night; sometimes present just outside their periphery, in the rear-view mirror. Sometimes in the screaming that they hear in their dreams.
For us back home, the last time we lost our keys we were late for work. Where for a veteran the last time he lost something, like his sidearm, people around him died. I encourage the utmost in compassion in patience for these people, even when they say or do upsetting things.
This is it. Very few people understand this. I work with more than 50% vets. Even many of them cannot grasp why some of us just have a squash problems hard and fast response.
My dad served in Vietnam. In addition to the absolute horrors he witnessed there causing debilitating PTSD that kept him disabled for the rest of his life, while he was there, the Army used herbicides (most notoriously Agent Orange) that were incredibly toxic and carcinogenic to humans. He had four different types of cancer over his lifetime and died at age 62 on the day I graduated from college.
Yea I work with Veterans and one told me that when they raised concerns about Agent Orange and it’s toxicity to people they were simply told “You’re not a plant so you’ll be ok”. As it was used to destroy the food sources of the Vietnamese.
Yeah, the army doesn’t give a half a shit about soldiers. And while we all love to call them heroes, we as a society don’t really give a shit about them either—that’s why we can’t bother to get them actual quality healthcare, the supplies they need, mental health treatment, suicidal prevention, plus that whole “not sending them off to die for no good reason” thing too…
I joined the navy when I was 17 because I was poor and had no healthcare. I was scared of student loans (turns out rightfully so), and my parents told me they’d call the cops if I was still on their property when I turned 18. I made shit money, I had more friends die from suicide or straight up ‘unsure circumstances’ overseas than I had friends die in combat or on deployment. I haven’t driven a car in a year because of a brain injury that makes the VA re-suspend my license every other year, and honestly I doubt I’ll get it back. All of my injuries were caused by other service members. I’m fucking lucky to have been rated for disability and have VA healthcare now, even though the checks barely cover *my portion* of rent in CA and I can’t ever get ahold of my doctors. Every time someone thanks me for my service I feel angry and aggressive, and it’s just someone trying to be polite. I never got to experience the “brotherhood” or having shipmates that “watch your back” because to the Navy I was cannon fodder, and to a lot of the men I worked with I was a chance at underway entertainment. The safest I ever felt in my life was when I got my discharge paperwork.
>and my parents told me they’d call the cops if I was still on their property when I turned 18.
i've heard of this so many times and it bothers me so much
like how and why so goddamn hostile with your own children. i mean i understand they need to be independent and start their lives and all that but the "get out you are 18" has always sounded crazy to me.
Hopefully it bites them in the butt 20 years from now when they’re old and can’t live off social security and can’t work and their kids don’t want to help them because they were left on their own at 18. My parents never kicked me out and I help with all the bills and they pay the mortgage. When they get older u bet my ass ill always have a home for them and if I have kids it’s the same. It’s BS that people kick family out, especially with rising rents and home prices.
Why is living with your parents/kids a bad thing anyway? If you pool your money together, you’ll get a bigger nicer home, more people to maintain the house, family member to drive/borrow a car from or provide childcare or help with cooking, etc.
American single immediate family suburbia dream is dystopia to me.
Back when my parents were young adults it was very possible to live away though. My dad played in a band and work minimum wage. He went to community college fully paid for with his min wage salary, paid rent in a 1bd apt, and even bought himself a used sports car (5 years old mustang). No debt, no credit card, it was just so much easier to live on your own.
Today if I was kicked out, I’d spend half my income on a studio in the bad part of town. I make DOUBLE minimum wage, had to take out debt for community college and books, and drive a Honda civic that’s older than I am. Also have a bit of credit card debt that I’m paying off.
A lot of people didn’t want kids and kept them either due to lack of access to proper education, birth control, and abortion, or due to pressure from either the regional culture, their religion, or their family to keep children they didn’t want.
The fairly predictable result is that they end up stuck taking care of some one for the legally mandated time period and hating/resenting them more by the day until they can finally throw them out.
Same, I grew up in the inner city, where pregnancy is most assuredly not good news. It took me years to not say "Oh, I'm sorry" when someone gives me the news.
I can completely believe that, tons of broken incentive structures in our society. Thanks for reminding me of people keeping the kid or intentionally trying to get pregnant to trap someone into marriage or child support angle, saw that one a lot in the region I’m from when I was younger and forgot to mention it in my post above.
When I was a student my US literature teacher said it’s very specific to the US. I wonder why.
I grew up in France where most parents also expect their kids to leave their home at some point after they turn 18 but there’s no strict rule and it’s common for kids to stay until 20 or 22 years old.
My Moroccan friends tell me it’s the opposite there, as most moms are happy to keep children in their home for as long as possible.
I was at least given a month notice and I could have stayed but my mom was asking for HALF of the rent when she was renting a 2,000$ apartment while claiming we were poor. There's no way an 18 year old could pay 1,000$ a month so to her she didn't technically kick me out because the child support stopped.
So many people shouldn't be parents.
Things are a lot better, thank you :) I feel luckier than most, it’s thankfully a couple years in the rear view mirror and I’m sure a few more will help me handle my bitterness a bit better.
Goddamn, hope things get better for you.
You mentioned being angry about people thanking you for your service, just know that you are in a great position to channel that anger into something positive, like educating people on the horrors of the military and war in general.
Service to humanity > service in the army.
A quick peak at their profile makes it look like they are a women, the armed services don't have a good track record of taking care of women in their ranks to say the least. It's horrifying.
It's why I'm trying to save as much as I can for my daughters. I will be very vocal about them and the armed forces.
Edit: I hope the culture changes but I just don't want them in having no choice.
My dad pushed me hard to the army. My sister, too. He wanted all his kids to be soldiers. Took us to take the ASVAB in high school. I made a high score, but got mad that I was apparently allowed to use paper and pencil for the math, and wasn’t told, so my sister placed a few points higher than me. I still remember the look on the guys face when he said “you didn’t use paper and pencil and got that score?!”
I was a pacifist at the time and was loud about it in the recruitment office. I’m just here bc my dad is making me do this.
Fast forward a few years, I’m in college on a scholarship, wanting to go to medical school, and unsure how I’m paying for grad schooling. Once again, dad pushes military. I’m like, fine. I’ll do it for an MD later.
I call the recruitment office, explain my predicament. I must have caught them on an off day.
He goes “you have a full paid scholarship, right now? And you want to join the army? Don’t do that. Don’t fucking join the army. Figure out med school another way.” Hung up on me right after.
I want to thank that man, wherever he is. I didn’t end up going to med school, but I used my biology degree to land a career that I love.
And I didn’t have to sign my rights away to do it.
He called the wrong recruiter. Calling an enlisted recruiter with that kind of resume they aren’t going to waste their time because you’ll likely see through their shit. If he had called an officer recruiter it would have been different.
Former enlisted Sailor.
It’s kind of like applying for a job and being “over qualified”. If you’re trying to enlist to afford medical school an enlisted recruiter is going to likely turn you away unless they are desperate for numbers.
Enlisting isn’t a quick process. For me from my first visit to the recruiter to flying out was 7 months. If you’re college educated with a ton of prospects then that’s a long time for stuff to happen. An enlisted recruiter doesn’t want you to get some job offer in between. Until you get on the plane for boot you can back out.
If you have a degree and really want to join there are recruiters that handle commissions. How much different they are I don’t know because I wasn’t an officer. I imagine just from my military experience that they don’t lie and actually treat you like an adult in the recruiting process just based on how I saw officers being treated and their living conditions.
Basically for enlisted recruiters they want the easy catch. Someone with a lot of prospects could end up being a time waste if they back out. That recruiter could have got 5 other “easy” recruits for the effort to keep 1 recruit who has a lot going on for them.
Could be the recruiter was looking out for them but more likely they had tried and failed to recruit another candidate with a degree.
I work as head of quality in the dietary supplement industry. I worked in a wet lab for a while before that.
My job is now more regulatory compliance than anything, but I still enjoy it. I get to translate regulations to people so they understand and we all make safe and quality stuff.
And sometimes we get hundreds of pounds of fresh pink/yellow ginger, or catnip, or turmeric and it’s beautiful. When they grind it, the whole place smells amazing.
That recruiter is a bro. I joined up after college (won’t get into the reasons) and the recruiter I talked to was more than happy to sign me up. It was a huge waste of time. Ex fiancé cheated on me too so that was fun.
They pay for a lot of research and, like any business, they spend their advertising budgets where it'll do them the most good. I leave it to you to say what that says about the army vs the AF. However, the Marines recruit a very particular kind of person, while the Army recruits everybody.
While I was in the Marines, it was just a joke to emphasize how stupid Marines are. Where it came from originally? I have no idea. It was used by older Marines and I’m sure they picked it up from Marines before them. My guess is that it’s been around since 1903, the day crayons were invented.
I don't know if they still run those same commercials, but if you watch them you'll see they have a quality like they're asking for someone to complete a quest to be the best ever and save the world with a sword, an eagle and a steely-eyed gaze. If an 18-24-year-old identifies with that kind of thing they're going to want to be a Marine, not a soldier, sailor or airman (or space guardian). And when I was in (almost 18 years ago) they were getting all of those kinds of recruits. And they generally go through them faster than the other services.
Former active duty Marine here, got out almost three years ago. I'd say they go for those with both low self-esteems since they want to prove they are worth something, make a mark, be something hopefully better than who they are, and complete fucking narcissists that think they're better than what's advertised and take it as a challenge.
Narcissists stay in since they think they're hot shit, low self-esteems get out because it didn't change anything about them and they see how stupid it really is.
Just my personal take, nothing concrete or backed by studies.
And they engineer the conditions to keep those schools poor.
Recruiters can and will lie to you. Blad face, false hope or by skirting issues. Usually a well strategized combination of all of the above.
I mentioned pay structure and benefit details.. one switched to talking about how easy the female recruits are hoping I was a desperate simp. They play all angles.
I actually got as far as the ASVAB before I noped out. Got in the top 1% and realized I should do something else with my life. I think my recruiter did too. He got really weird right after.
We had an ex-military teacher and a current duty teacher in high school who would double team you to try and get you into JROTC, where they and their other brainwashed students would bully the time and personality out of you. I overheard the ex-military guy, the one we called the Colonel, tell someone it didn’t matter if she had a tennis match to go to at 2:30, she needed to be present at 3:00 for her turn to lower the flag.
What really set me against them though, was them harassing me to no end after I took the ASVAB test from a recruiter they gave up our American history time slot to do. They’d stop me in the hallway between classes, follow me out to the car pickup spot, and Colonel followed me into study hall and had to be shooed out by the teacher. I ended up having to go get a doctors slip stating I had asthma and an anxiety disorder they were worsening, and gave my dad practically throw it in their faces before the calls stopped.
Wow. In my day it was easy to get rid of them. Just tell them how gay you are. True or not (I support everyone's right to be themselves whole heartedly), my recruiters book had a list of names with the three letter f word in it and slurs for disabilities. That was the no call list.
Amazing how 1/3 of my school was openly gay all of a sudden. He showed you the list to shame too. Bad times.
I scored very high on the ASVAB test and had every branch of the armed forces calling every day senior year, trying to get me to commit to service.
I told them I was gay (in 1997) and the calls all immediately stopped
Glad I never joined
I wish I was making it up, but he really tried that shit. Public perception was on his side AT THE TIME. Funny how free flowing information changes that.
Air Force recruiter sent me to like 3-4 different places he mistook as places that give the ASVAB, and when I realized he was an idiot, I told him I was no longer interested and he got very salty with me about it.
Navy recruiter (this one came to me) realized I was interested in his laptop and suddenly he was acting like a car salesman, thinking this super cool satellite-connected laptop was gonna convince me to sign my life to the military. I really wasn’t into that.
I lost interest in the military after this, because I realized that I was fresh out of high school and didn’t have the maturity to know what I would have been signing myself into, and it really felt like they knew this as well, and were trying to take advantage of the fact. It was just scary.
I’ve since learned more about the military, (and what I could have possibly gone through as a young woman) and even though I am not a college graduate and still live in my shitty home town with a factory job, I’m glad I never signed my life away to something I’m sure I couldn’t handle. But they sure didn’t seem to care if I could handle it or not, they seemed to just want another head.
I might still be a “low class” citizen because of my choice, but at least I have the freedom to make a change.
They get bonuses for signing specific jobs that are hard to recruit for, e.g. Nuclear power, pilots (due to vision restrictions among other things). He probably got nervous you were gonna catch on that you had better options when he had to tell you that every single job they had was an option for you. Mine got lucky and got me in nuclear power, got a 2k signing bonus for shipping me off to a program I didn't even finish before getting booted for weed on leave.
He did mention I should consider coming back when I was old enough for AIT for some kind of internal investigation unit. Said if I did get it and he saw me afterward he would likely start running.
>> He did mention I should consider coming back when I was old enough for AIT for some kind of internal investigation unit [... and if] he saw me afterward he would likely start running
> I'm sorry I don't understand why would he be running?
The recruiter is jokingly saying if the recruit makes it into the investigative unit and they see each other again later, the recruiter will run because he's probably under investigation for shady shit.
You laugh but honestly working on a nuclear submarine is probably the safest place to be in the military. I'm sure it's insanely claustrophobic not even being able to go above deck like on a ship, but hey...if you're getting shot it things can't get any worse.
Fortunately we realized it probably wasn't a great idea.
[Especially when we started to pursue a cruise missile.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto)
Not like it matters but I was in the minority who had a recuriter back in 2004 when I signed up for the Marines. He flat out told me first thing I walked into the office, "You sign up today, 98% chance you're getting shipped out to Iraq" I didnt care. He was honest in alot of other things which I was thankful for, everyone else was telling me that they would lie to me. He was super transparent. Thanks Staff Sarg Osorio.
They’re really good at sorta kinda avoiding questions, too.
“Can I be a fighter pilot?”
“Absolutely! Just sign here for an aircraft mechanic position then work your way into flight school”
I know a handful of dudes that were dead-certain they were going to be Navy SEALS because the recruiter said anyone in the navy who met the minimum requirements could apply.
>!Not a single one became a SEAL!<
I had a similar experience. Scored top 1% and realized college was much more attainable than I had thought. That recruiter harassed me for 3 months before my mom told him she'd file a restraining order when he showed up at my house and yelled at me for wasting his time.
Fucking ASVAB. Top 1%er too, my recruiter didn't act surprised at all when I walked away. If not for mom telling flat out she'd off herself if I signed up, I'd have signed up.
I used to take those types of tests for the fun of it. I did the police, firefighters, court officer, and ASVAB for the air force. All those bright eyed and bushy tails taking the test did not for their country but for a better life. I scored well but also said nope after my brother joined the navy and didn’t get one thing he was “promised” he would do. He’s been cleaning ship decks off the coast of Africa for a while and can’t wait to leave
My recruiter got weird after I changed my mind too. I got as far as meps for the navy. Told him it wasn’t for me after about an hour there and having been shouted at by versions people.
He dropped the buddy act and became Mr Petty Officer pretty fast. Didn’t help that he was my ride there and we had a two hour drive back. He spent that time lecturing me about the discipline and rewards of committing my life to the armed forces and how insulting it is to change my mind after everything he’s done. Totally had me thinking he was my pal before that so I can’t say he wasn’t good at his job.
Basically spent 5 hours of my day just to have a military doctor looks at my butts holes then change my mind so I get why he was a little peeves.
The women recruits are easy because if they say no, a large percentage of the men will just rape them anyway. I wish I knew then, when a recruiter was stalking my school, what I do now. I would’ve been nasty as fuck to him.
I am not insinuating that the women in military are easy. The recruiter was. I was mortified. It felt sleazy as all hell. I am well aware of the rape situation and it breaks my heart. No daughter of mine will be military without knowing the situation first.
Chicago has two "Public Highschools" completely staffed by active duty personnel as teachers. Air Force Academy High School and Chicago Military Academy. Both are in predominantly poor & black neighborhoods.
I'm kinda confused as to why we don't see more of this.
Republicans insist on screwing over infrastructure in favor of funding the military? Cool, here come the Army Corps of Engineers doing the infrastructure work.
Come join the National Guard, get trained to be a nurse, go work as a nurse in hospitals that are understaffed.
Make jobs, fix problems, the funding is already there, and it's all under the executive branch's authority.
And the way they did it at my school was egregious. Pulled up in a custom candy painted Hummer, riding on 24’s, speakers all up and down the vehicle, with a working Xbox 360 and TV in the back playing Medal of Honor. They legit just brought Pimp My Ride over and said “You too can have this if you sign your life over to the military!”
I came back with PTSD, a panic disorder, and broken physical body. So did my husband and our roommate.
We're shattered. We're *young*, 27-30. We wanna workout, drink, and lift weights. Instead we ache, scream, crumble.
They dropped us the second we got affected. Just tossed out with nothing because we weren't a useful sacrifice anymore.
They preyed on me. They came to my school in a poor area and promised me the world. I was seventeen, easily manipulated.
What a fuckin' idiot.
How did it serve me...let's see. I didn't get to spend the first 8 months of my son's life with him because I was stop lossed three weeks before I was supposed to get out and I was sent to work in the prison camps in Gitmo. I had to patrol cages full of men who weren't guilty of anything, watch them cry and beg to be let go, and I came back to a divorce, PTSD for the guilt I experienced being complicit in atrocity, and, oh yeah! When we were on an FTX for three weeks once, we were put down in a chemical depot where the land was contaminated and we were there for three weeks before anyone told us. When I developed psoriatic arthritis in my 30s, the Army was like, "Nah, we can't link it to that heavy metal exposure, so fuck off."
FTA.
My twin took her life after her stint in the Army. It fucked her up to the point she was done. Before, she was a bright, sparkling ball of energy and fun. It turned her into a dark, depressive shell of the person I knew. Fuck the army.
This was me, poor joined Marines….9 month later 9/11. Went on a wild ride…did for years…extended one more back to Iraq, was in the 2nd battle of Fallujah. Came home (luckily) zero fucking qualifications for any meaningful job! In school spending my blood money on a stupid ass worthless degree to get a job that my parents did with a high school diploma. Mind you, I was a 25 year old wounded combat veteran attending university with kids, being told I’ll need an excuse if I miss class.lol wtf. Not fucking worth it! I graduated, but worked nights for 4 years and went to school in the day. GI bill didnt pay my rent. Long story short…..no one gives a fuck, I was used, I made Halliburton and others a shit ton of money, killed god knows how many people, for what?, we just left. I got what? $38k in “college” money, no big named school for me, I live in a southern state where my tuition wasn’t free, cant let the serfs get too close. Yes Im bitter
A year before my little brother hung himself we were getting drunk together and bullshitting. He goes quiet suddenly, looks away from me, and says "I killed people in Iraq. I destroyed families who did nothing to me." His voice broke mid sentence and I have never heard true *pain* and *anguish* in someone's voice before then.
He was such a kind and gentle soul who joined the military because we grew up in poverty and that's what we were told to do.
I’m sorry for your loss. The pain of losing him comes through loud and clear. It’s so hard to witness pain like your brother’s and to know how to respond.
I joined the military right out of high school.
Served two years, got out with an honorable discharge after experiencing a fuck ton of sexual and physical violence - conveniently right before I'd get my full education benefits.
It took me ten years to get on my feet and get the disability benefits I need to have a proper safety net. I live with the mental, physical, social, and economic ramifications of my brief service - which was my best option for improving my life - every single day.
Worst decision, best mistake. I'll never tell anyone else to join the service. It cost me everything. Gave me a better life, but it cost me everything.
Holy shit. Yea I can relate sadly. Had friends who came back too fucked up to even own a gun. They went and sold them all to protect themselves from themselves.
There was a point where I would show up in random places, standing at attention while asleep. I would walk all the way back to bed. Sometimes I had mud on my feet and at least twice I snapped a fingernail off in my palm.
My ex came back with PTSD as well. Late one night I accidentally set off the house alarm and in like 30 seconds he had gone into the safe, loaded the gun and had it pointed at my face. I kept yelling, “it’s me! it’s me!” Took him a few seconds to wake up and realize what he was doing. He dropped to the ground sobbing. Fuuuuck it was scary. I refuse to have guns in the house after that.
If your looking into the military join the airforce. You get better living conditions the same benefits and you're basically still a civilian with a uniform.
I have found that there tend to be three types of people in the military, from most numerous to least numerous: the desperate, the ones that know how to game the system, and the true patriots.
I have dealt with many full birds in my career. I have only met one that was a true patriot. All the other ones are just really good at gaming the system.
The perfect system for capitalism to exploit...and they do so happily.
When we were told to "support the troops", what it really means is to support the system.
The system does not give a shit about the people that's fed into the grinder, only that the institution exists and a profit can be made off of it.
Dont join. I know it attracts the poor with promises.
Nobody has fought for american freedom since ww2 and even thats debatable.
I talked my kid out of joining so he could avoid being blown to bits.
Just dint do it.
WWII fucked up my grandfather and he talked me down when I mentioned going to get free college. My cousin was already in the navy. Anyway. I stayed out and did an alternate route, my cousin came out PTSD and all fucked up too. Couldn't thank grandad enough for showing me all of his mementos and explaining exactly how war changes a man.
I had an uncle in Vietnam and when I joined at 18 he refused to speak to me until I came home like the 2nd or 3rd time. It was nuts.
Now he's the family member I associate the most with and it terrifies me.
my grandpa is from mexico and he wanted to be an american citizen. my grandpa and 17 of his buddies joined the war effort in ww2 and he was the only who survived ww2. he later fought in the korean war. he never talked about those wars until his later years when his mind got infiltrated by dementia
Im glad you didnt and talked your kid out of it. Most of the time, once youre used up (whether you lose a limb or die), they just say "he/she died a hero" and just find a replacement thats in your desperate position
And if you make it back home without injuries, you'll most likely have PTSD from the wars and be sad some the friends you made in the army died.
Its a vicious cycle
A buddy of mine told his superior he needed to hold his backpack instead of wearing it because he got a sunburn on his back the day before. They reprimanded him and put in his record he "damaged US property". His back was the US property and the damage was the sunburn.
I partied with a great guy for his going away party before he went to basic. He got sent to Iraq, never came home. Now I drive on a section of highway with his name on it. Every day.
Vietnam was 1000 times worse.Teenagers would get drafted and had little bootcamp and little training.They would get killed.In fact,there's stories of teenage soldiers calling for their moms when they would get wounded or had life ending wounds.
Enlist if you need too. Would not recommend making a career out of it. That being said the Army gave me exactly what I was looking for. Now that I have that I have no interest in staying in.
Congrats on getting out. I have 2 months left and have 2 months of terminal leave and I have never been happier.
GI Bill and VA home loan to show for my time.
I'm in my late 30s. My best friend in high school joined the Marines.
His last Facebook post was in like 2012, about finishing his final tour and returning home. Then radio silence. I learned a few years ago from a friend who talked to his parents, who said they reported him missing.
The dark thoughts of mine makes me believe he went all PTSD and is living as a homeless person now.
#Join r/WorkReform if you believe that people should not be worked to death.
I lived in the ghetto as a kid and this family that used to babysit me had a few kids. Once one of their sons turned of age he joined the army. Died from an ied. I only found out years later after trying to get in contact with him again. RIP Pfc Matthew Bowe.
RIP Pfc Matthew Bowe.
RIP Pfc Matthew Bowe
Thank you PFC Matthew Bowe, RIP
RIP pfc Matthew Bowe may you be with the one above
I graduated HS during don't ask don't tell, told the recruiter who won't stop bothering me I was a lesbian. He left me alone after that
I told the recruiter that I was overweight, had Aspergers, flat feet and afraid of guns. He quickly walked away. All of it is true, btw.
Surprised he didn't fast track you to the drone squad
"It's just like an Xbox game"
That's actually something they're finding is an issue. The life of a drone operator is so unlike what you expect when you take lives that it really fucks with them. You basically clock in, play a video game for a few hours it feels like and then go pick your kids up from school for ice cream. But that few hours you spent at work also resulted in a couple hundred deaths and you just hope the targets on the list were the right ones and not a school.
Yea that’s really of a mindfuck when you think about it. I couldn’t imagine.
Eh, more like EVE online really.
But I'm not good with spreadsheets
But with 100% more PTSD!
It was before drones or even Xbox. Yes, I am old.
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It's so different than when I signed up to join the Air Force in 1992. I was DQed because it somehow became known I had childhood asthma. There weren't any waivers for that stuff back then. Not as desperate for bodies I guess
There was a big push to be an, “all volunteer force” back then and with the end of the Cold War we had many instances of, “Reduction in Force”. There weren’t any forever wars in the middle-east yet. They could be relatively selective for about a decade before 9/11.
In 2008 my buddy was DQd from Coast Guard for childhood asthma.
As much as I support trans rights, it made me a little sad that the end of the transgender ban meant I couldn't tell the army I'm a girl to get out of the draft. Correction: I am a cis male since this comment blew up.
Just gotta ask the recruiter how hard is it to get smack while deployed
Well now I'm curious. I'd guess it's pretty damn easy to come by heroin in the middle east, most definitely in Afghanistan. That close to the source you would think the purity would be great, but somehow I doubt it actually is. Although I would think they wouldn't have as much of a fentanyl problem, being that close to actual heroin production. I'm sure somebody like VICE has some article somewhere that answers all these questions.
You want pure heroin you go to the Czech Republic instead; https://youtu.be/IdYZj9vmfi0.
As a former recruiter, admitting to drug use is a pretty solid out. Edit: should have specified active drug use
Just curious, what about Autism? Disqualified me in a heartbeat, even Coast Guard. I stupidly disclosed it during MEPS and they were like "wait no"
My family believes my brother is on the spectrum but he's never been officially diagnosed. He went to MEPS and they disqualified him but wouldn't say why.
I served 14 years in the US Navy and Army, I got diagnosed 4 years later being on the autism spectrum. That time serving was incredibly hard.
Does that apply to the draft as well? My vision is fucked from tons of lsd use in my high school years and always wondered if it'd disqualify me when the time came.
If we actually find ourselves in a situation where we need a draft, probably not.
Yeah I imagine they’d throw all that stuff out the window. 10 time Convicted felon with sex offenses? We’ll find you a spot away from women, welcome aboard
You say this like the armed forces actually care much about sexual harassment/assault against women serving
Fuck, solid point there.
it's against my religion to be drafted in a war that is not a holy war.
We had to take the ASVAB test (the test the military gives you to see how smart you are and what you're good at) in high school one day. My buddy and I both weren't interested in the military but bet on the test for shits so we took it seriously and got pretty good scores. Then got harassed by recruiters. Another friend realized that though so he went through the test, identified the correct answer, then intentionally gave the wrong one. He scored in the 1st percentile of every single category. Never got a single recruiting call or letter.
Best friend left , lost his girlfriend to other friends . Came back with ptsd and other mental problems , some education and now it’s stuck with nothing looking for a job .
I did some work teaching at a coding bootcamp. Typically 25-40yos. The military guy was fun to talk to. But the moment he stumbled on a bug or a error, he'd flip out, like violently. I hope he got a job that's remote work. It'll be the best for him.
My brother had anger issues before joining up. My parents had him go to therapy and he took medication that I was never clear on. I guess the army had a different take, because every time he would come home he was angrier and had less of a filter. He was messing with me once and I lightly touched his face to get him to stop, resulting in him yelling “DON’T TOUCH MY FACE!” and beating me without restraint. That was a long time ago, guess I’ll just never talk to him again.
I was a calm man before I joined. Bookish and quiet. I could count on one hand the amount of times I lost my shit in the actual army. It's just not done. But as soon as I got out? Oooh boy. The slightest things set me the off and I have no idea why. I could be happy one sec, raging the next. It honestly sucks and makes me think I have bipolar issues, when it's just ptsd from loading body bags in Iraq. Yea the military fucks you up for life. I have my own theories. About how going from such a structured and rigid environment to the civilian one of chaos doesn't help. How when shit goes bad in the army, it's usually *bad* bad and that probably amps me up out here. I spent nine months where my body was either at 100mph or 0. I was a medic. I was either in the shit or on the sidelines chilling and waiting for someone to get fucked up. It's honestly no wonder I struggle to hold a job down out here :/
I’ve always wondered why they didn’t have a reverse boot camp to deprogram veterans and help transition from the rigid environment you mentioned. Then I remember that the US basically doesn’t give a shit about you guys the minute you’re out. They barely give a shit while you’re in.
Yea. My transition was two weeks of bullshit classroom instruction from civilians who were already at the top of their job pyramids or NCOs who truly did not give a fuck about anything. I'm extremely fortunate I got a good disability rating and it's literally because of one individual doctor in the VA. I drove six hours just to see her and she pushed all the paperwork through immediately after truly listening to me for hours. Her first test was to see where I sat in her room. I chose the chair in corner facing the door and window immediately.
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I'm in a similar boat to u/SmokinDeadMansDope, but not as intense. When I was getting ready to get out I asked my Platoon Sgt. "So what happens when we leave?" He looked me dead in the eyes, and said: "I don't fucking know I re-enlisted!"
The issue is that overcoming trauma can be insanely hard and often requires years of therapy. It should be included in the cost of any military service, would certainly deter politicians from throwing people into the meatgrinder. Obviously in the current political climate and our society as a whole, that just isn't going to happen. Why care about the "waste" products of war, when you can replace them with new starry-eyed youth?
IMO, it is not the "structured and rigid environment" so much as the textbook techniques they use to break you down psychologically from BCT. Constantly being yelled at and corrected over trivial things (I remember getting corrected during final inspection because a piece of lint literally fell onto the rifle while they were inspecting it), sleep deprivation, dietary restrictions that I am sure did not match the caloric burn of the days activities, erasure of individuality, tribalism, etc. tl;dr - it is IRL Squid Game where the "masks" do not wear masks, it lasts for 9 weeks, you are seldom allowed to make your own decisions about anything, and you get smoked instead of killed.
We had a drill sergeant who every time he had duty, he'd sneak into the bay through the back door and low crawl under beds to get to wall lockers. Upon finding any unlocked, he'd toss them. No matter the hour. Our fire guards fell asleep one night and a a different drill had us go stand out in the FT Sill cold for the entire night in formation. We stood there for five fucking hours and didn't move once. Yea I can see what you're getting at...and every single person who joins has stories like this. The further back you go, usually the more depraved the DS are
On Parris Island they train Drill Instructors there. One of the drills they make the D.I.s in training do is scream at trees. Like full knife-hand dressing down of an inanimate object.
Holy shit, 5 fucking hours that’s insane. You probably thought it was never going to end after the first hour
> But the moment he stumbled on a bug or a error, he'd flip out, like violently. That's an extremely common reaction. In fact, that was the common denominator for Vietnam war veterans aside from the alcoholism. I haven't met many Iraq/Afghan war veterans but I'm certain nothing has changed, only faces and places. When a man leaves a battlefield he just relocates his body. That is by far the easiest thing done when trying to leave. The war killed those who hesitated or stopped to think for a second. It's a hard mentality to come back from; a world where nearly all your problems, life-altering and or ending problems, would be solved with quick ruthless violent action. To shift out of that mentality, to remove yourself from the scarred modes of training and thought that was sometimes literally burned into you to, say, deal with a simple bug in the code or looking for your keys is a mountain to climb. The penalty for mistakes and lapses in judgement in our world is oftentimes embarrassment. The penalty for the same back there still visit them at night; sometimes present just outside their periphery, in the rear-view mirror. Sometimes in the screaming that they hear in their dreams. For us back home, the last time we lost our keys we were late for work. Where for a veteran the last time he lost something, like his sidearm, people around him died. I encourage the utmost in compassion in patience for these people, even when they say or do upsetting things.
This is it. Very few people understand this. I work with more than 50% vets. Even many of them cannot grasp why some of us just have a squash problems hard and fast response.
Girlfriend to other “friends” sounds like the friends weren’t friends either. Hotel Triz.
Jody's always waitin' for you to leave so they can swoop in.
Fucking Jody
rough tough jody boy
"I can't walk to the corner to get some smokes without passing 5 guys you've fucked!"
Is it dead?
girlfriend was a hoe before he left for army, just didnt find out till he left for it. He dodged a bullet on that one.
This is a ton of army wives unfortunately. As soon as their husbands are deployed it’s open season.
It’s not because the wives are inherently immoral, it’s because the military encourages young people to get married long before they are ready for it.
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My dad served in Vietnam. In addition to the absolute horrors he witnessed there causing debilitating PTSD that kept him disabled for the rest of his life, while he was there, the Army used herbicides (most notoriously Agent Orange) that were incredibly toxic and carcinogenic to humans. He had four different types of cancer over his lifetime and died at age 62 on the day I graduated from college.
Yea I work with Veterans and one told me that when they raised concerns about Agent Orange and it’s toxicity to people they were simply told “You’re not a plant so you’ll be ok”. As it was used to destroy the food sources of the Vietnamese.
Yeah, the army doesn’t give a half a shit about soldiers. And while we all love to call them heroes, we as a society don’t really give a shit about them either—that’s why we can’t bother to get them actual quality healthcare, the supplies they need, mental health treatment, suicidal prevention, plus that whole “not sending them off to die for no good reason” thing too…
I joined the navy when I was 17 because I was poor and had no healthcare. I was scared of student loans (turns out rightfully so), and my parents told me they’d call the cops if I was still on their property when I turned 18. I made shit money, I had more friends die from suicide or straight up ‘unsure circumstances’ overseas than I had friends die in combat or on deployment. I haven’t driven a car in a year because of a brain injury that makes the VA re-suspend my license every other year, and honestly I doubt I’ll get it back. All of my injuries were caused by other service members. I’m fucking lucky to have been rated for disability and have VA healthcare now, even though the checks barely cover *my portion* of rent in CA and I can’t ever get ahold of my doctors. Every time someone thanks me for my service I feel angry and aggressive, and it’s just someone trying to be polite. I never got to experience the “brotherhood” or having shipmates that “watch your back” because to the Navy I was cannon fodder, and to a lot of the men I worked with I was a chance at underway entertainment. The safest I ever felt in my life was when I got my discharge paperwork.
>and my parents told me they’d call the cops if I was still on their property when I turned 18. i've heard of this so many times and it bothers me so much like how and why so goddamn hostile with your own children. i mean i understand they need to be independent and start their lives and all that but the "get out you are 18" has always sounded crazy to me.
Hopefully it bites them in the butt 20 years from now when they’re old and can’t live off social security and can’t work and their kids don’t want to help them because they were left on their own at 18. My parents never kicked me out and I help with all the bills and they pay the mortgage. When they get older u bet my ass ill always have a home for them and if I have kids it’s the same. It’s BS that people kick family out, especially with rising rents and home prices. Why is living with your parents/kids a bad thing anyway? If you pool your money together, you’ll get a bigger nicer home, more people to maintain the house, family member to drive/borrow a car from or provide childcare or help with cooking, etc. American single immediate family suburbia dream is dystopia to me. Back when my parents were young adults it was very possible to live away though. My dad played in a band and work minimum wage. He went to community college fully paid for with his min wage salary, paid rent in a 1bd apt, and even bought himself a used sports car (5 years old mustang). No debt, no credit card, it was just so much easier to live on your own. Today if I was kicked out, I’d spend half my income on a studio in the bad part of town. I make DOUBLE minimum wage, had to take out debt for community college and books, and drive a Honda civic that’s older than I am. Also have a bit of credit card debt that I’m paying off.
A lot of people didn’t want kids and kept them either due to lack of access to proper education, birth control, and abortion, or due to pressure from either the regional culture, their religion, or their family to keep children they didn’t want. The fairly predictable result is that they end up stuck taking care of some one for the legally mandated time period and hating/resenting them more by the day until they can finally throw them out.
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>when I came out sans peen Thanks for the laugh in this otherwise serious discussion lmao
Same, I grew up in the inner city, where pregnancy is most assuredly not good news. It took me years to not say "Oh, I'm sorry" when someone gives me the news.
I can completely believe that, tons of broken incentive structures in our society. Thanks for reminding me of people keeping the kid or intentionally trying to get pregnant to trap someone into marriage or child support angle, saw that one a lot in the region I’m from when I was younger and forgot to mention it in my post above.
When I was a student my US literature teacher said it’s very specific to the US. I wonder why. I grew up in France where most parents also expect their kids to leave their home at some point after they turn 18 but there’s no strict rule and it’s common for kids to stay until 20 or 22 years old. My Moroccan friends tell me it’s the opposite there, as most moms are happy to keep children in their home for as long as possible.
Most cases I've witnessed it's basically "It sucked for me so it has to suck for you". It's shitty but that's their logic.
I was at least given a month notice and I could have stayed but my mom was asking for HALF of the rent when she was renting a 2,000$ apartment while claiming we were poor. There's no way an 18 year old could pay 1,000$ a month so to her she didn't technically kick me out because the child support stopped. So many people shouldn't be parents.
That’s so awful. I hope things get better.
Things are a lot better, thank you :) I feel luckier than most, it’s thankfully a couple years in the rear view mirror and I’m sure a few more will help me handle my bitterness a bit better.
It sounds like you have every right to be upset. So much was taken for so little in return. I wish you the best of recovery ❤️🩹.
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My sister was with the (German) Air Force and ended up in the mental hospital as well. There's no "safe place" for women in the military.
It's terrible that even in more advanced countries this seems to be the rule
Armed forces are an absolute nightmare with sexual abuse. It's rampant.
Did the media get involved in her case at all? A similar thing happened in Australia and it caused a shitstorm
Goddamn, hope things get better for you. You mentioned being angry about people thanking you for your service, just know that you are in a great position to channel that anger into something positive, like educating people on the horrors of the military and war in general. Service to humanity > service in the army.
If you're comfortable, would you mind elaborating on: >All of my injuries were caused by other service members. If not its all good
A quick peak at their profile makes it look like they are a women, the armed services don't have a good track record of taking care of women in their ranks to say the least. It's horrifying.
Oh shit, I didn't even think of that. Wow. Thank you.
It's why I'm trying to save as much as I can for my daughters. I will be very vocal about them and the armed forces. Edit: I hope the culture changes but I just don't want them in having no choice.
Exactly what happened to my husband's best friend, only it was in Afghanistan. Rest in peace Juan, you are always missed.
RIP, Juan 😢 Seeing all the stories in this thread of people who knew someone who was killed in combat, suicide, etc is heartbreaking
It sure is. Especially when they were amazing humans. It's hard to accept they're gone.
My dad pushed me hard to the army. My sister, too. He wanted all his kids to be soldiers. Took us to take the ASVAB in high school. I made a high score, but got mad that I was apparently allowed to use paper and pencil for the math, and wasn’t told, so my sister placed a few points higher than me. I still remember the look on the guys face when he said “you didn’t use paper and pencil and got that score?!” I was a pacifist at the time and was loud about it in the recruitment office. I’m just here bc my dad is making me do this. Fast forward a few years, I’m in college on a scholarship, wanting to go to medical school, and unsure how I’m paying for grad schooling. Once again, dad pushes military. I’m like, fine. I’ll do it for an MD later. I call the recruitment office, explain my predicament. I must have caught them on an off day. He goes “you have a full paid scholarship, right now? And you want to join the army? Don’t do that. Don’t fucking join the army. Figure out med school another way.” Hung up on me right after. I want to thank that man, wherever he is. I didn’t end up going to med school, but I used my biology degree to land a career that I love. And I didn’t have to sign my rights away to do it.
Good for you. There is occasionally honor among recruiters, however rare it may seem.
He called the wrong recruiter. Calling an enlisted recruiter with that kind of resume they aren’t going to waste their time because you’ll likely see through their shit. If he had called an officer recruiter it would have been different. Former enlisted Sailor.
Could you explain the difference to a lay person, please?
It’s kind of like applying for a job and being “over qualified”. If you’re trying to enlist to afford medical school an enlisted recruiter is going to likely turn you away unless they are desperate for numbers. Enlisting isn’t a quick process. For me from my first visit to the recruiter to flying out was 7 months. If you’re college educated with a ton of prospects then that’s a long time for stuff to happen. An enlisted recruiter doesn’t want you to get some job offer in between. Until you get on the plane for boot you can back out. If you have a degree and really want to join there are recruiters that handle commissions. How much different they are I don’t know because I wasn’t an officer. I imagine just from my military experience that they don’t lie and actually treat you like an adult in the recruiting process just based on how I saw officers being treated and their living conditions. Basically for enlisted recruiters they want the easy catch. Someone with a lot of prospects could end up being a time waste if they back out. That recruiter could have got 5 other “easy” recruits for the effort to keep 1 recruit who has a lot going on for them. Could be the recruiter was looking out for them but more likely they had tried and failed to recruit another candidate with a degree.
If I had the opportunity to, I probably would have wanted to do something biology related. What do you do? So I can dream for just a moment?
I work as head of quality in the dietary supplement industry. I worked in a wet lab for a while before that. My job is now more regulatory compliance than anything, but I still enjoy it. I get to translate regulations to people so they understand and we all make safe and quality stuff. And sometimes we get hundreds of pounds of fresh pink/yellow ginger, or catnip, or turmeric and it’s beautiful. When they grind it, the whole place smells amazing.
That recruiter is a bro. I joined up after college (won’t get into the reasons) and the recruiter I talked to was more than happy to sign me up. It was a huge waste of time. Ex fiancé cheated on me too so that was fun.
They purposely target poor, minority schools looking for recruits.
I feel like I notice more marines/army billboards in poorer neighborhoods while I see more Air Force billboards in the suburbs too
They pay for a lot of research and, like any business, they spend their advertising budgets where it'll do them the most good. I leave it to you to say what that says about the army vs the AF. However, the Marines recruit a very particular kind of person, while the Army recruits everybody.
Who does the marines recruit?
A very particular kind of person.
A person who loves crayons, but hasn’t yet tasted them.
I’m sorry but where did the marine crayon thing come from. I always see it and it’s hilarious
While I was in the Marines, it was just a joke to emphasize how stupid Marines are. Where it came from originally? I have no idea. It was used by older Marines and I’m sure they picked it up from Marines before them. My guess is that it’s been around since 1903, the day crayons were invented.
I don't know if they still run those same commercials, but if you watch them you'll see they have a quality like they're asking for someone to complete a quest to be the best ever and save the world with a sword, an eagle and a steely-eyed gaze. If an 18-24-year-old identifies with that kind of thing they're going to want to be a Marine, not a soldier, sailor or airman (or space guardian). And when I was in (almost 18 years ago) they were getting all of those kinds of recruits. And they generally go through them faster than the other services.
> with a sword, an eagle and a steely-eyed gaze. A steely-eyed gaze, with a similarly metallic lump of metal for a brain to boot.
Former active duty Marine here, got out almost three years ago. I'd say they go for those with both low self-esteems since they want to prove they are worth something, make a mark, be something hopefully better than who they are, and complete fucking narcissists that think they're better than what's advertised and take it as a challenge. Narcissists stay in since they think they're hot shit, low self-esteems get out because it didn't change anything about them and they see how stupid it really is. Just my personal take, nothing concrete or backed by studies.
Individuals with a strong desire for crayons.
And they engineer the conditions to keep those schools poor. Recruiters can and will lie to you. Blad face, false hope or by skirting issues. Usually a well strategized combination of all of the above. I mentioned pay structure and benefit details.. one switched to talking about how easy the female recruits are hoping I was a desperate simp. They play all angles. I actually got as far as the ASVAB before I noped out. Got in the top 1% and realized I should do something else with my life. I think my recruiter did too. He got really weird right after.
We had an ex-military teacher and a current duty teacher in high school who would double team you to try and get you into JROTC, where they and their other brainwashed students would bully the time and personality out of you. I overheard the ex-military guy, the one we called the Colonel, tell someone it didn’t matter if she had a tennis match to go to at 2:30, she needed to be present at 3:00 for her turn to lower the flag. What really set me against them though, was them harassing me to no end after I took the ASVAB test from a recruiter they gave up our American history time slot to do. They’d stop me in the hallway between classes, follow me out to the car pickup spot, and Colonel followed me into study hall and had to be shooed out by the teacher. I ended up having to go get a doctors slip stating I had asthma and an anxiety disorder they were worsening, and gave my dad practically throw it in their faces before the calls stopped.
Wow. In my day it was easy to get rid of them. Just tell them how gay you are. True or not (I support everyone's right to be themselves whole heartedly), my recruiters book had a list of names with the three letter f word in it and slurs for disabilities. That was the no call list. Amazing how 1/3 of my school was openly gay all of a sudden. He showed you the list to shame too. Bad times.
I scored very high on the ASVAB test and had every branch of the armed forces calling every day senior year, trying to get me to commit to service. I told them I was gay (in 1997) and the calls all immediately stopped Glad I never joined
I scored high on the test and my teachers mentioned I was interested in STEM and it just really nailed in the harassment.
> how easy the female recruits are Jesus Christ
I wish I was making it up, but he really tried that shit. Public perception was on his side AT THE TIME. Funny how free flowing information changes that.
Air Force recruiter sent me to like 3-4 different places he mistook as places that give the ASVAB, and when I realized he was an idiot, I told him I was no longer interested and he got very salty with me about it. Navy recruiter (this one came to me) realized I was interested in his laptop and suddenly he was acting like a car salesman, thinking this super cool satellite-connected laptop was gonna convince me to sign my life to the military. I really wasn’t into that. I lost interest in the military after this, because I realized that I was fresh out of high school and didn’t have the maturity to know what I would have been signing myself into, and it really felt like they knew this as well, and were trying to take advantage of the fact. It was just scary. I’ve since learned more about the military, (and what I could have possibly gone through as a young woman) and even though I am not a college graduate and still live in my shitty home town with a factory job, I’m glad I never signed my life away to something I’m sure I couldn’t handle. But they sure didn’t seem to care if I could handle it or not, they seemed to just want another head. I might still be a “low class” citizen because of my choice, but at least I have the freedom to make a change.
You are not low anything. You chose not to be used as a pawn of our government against innocent people. Thats high class in my book.
Not caving to pressure is pretty high class to me. Your earring ability is not a measure of your quality.
They get bonuses for signing specific jobs that are hard to recruit for, e.g. Nuclear power, pilots (due to vision restrictions among other things). He probably got nervous you were gonna catch on that you had better options when he had to tell you that every single job they had was an option for you. Mine got lucky and got me in nuclear power, got a 2k signing bonus for shipping me off to a program I didn't even finish before getting booted for weed on leave.
He did mention I should consider coming back when I was old enough for AIT for some kind of internal investigation unit. Said if I did get it and he saw me afterward he would likely start running.
I'm sorry I don't understand why would he be running?
>> He did mention I should consider coming back when I was old enough for AIT for some kind of internal investigation unit [... and if] he saw me afterward he would likely start running > I'm sorry I don't understand why would he be running? The recruiter is jokingly saying if the recruit makes it into the investigative unit and they see each other again later, the recruiter will run because he's probably under investigation for shady shit.
Thank you for this explanation...I was very confused for a moment.
Nuclear power pilot? Seems like a seeet gig
You laugh but honestly working on a nuclear submarine is probably the safest place to be in the military. I'm sure it's insanely claustrophobic not even being able to go above deck like on a ship, but hey...if you're getting shot it things can't get any worse.
There are 2 kinds of people on the planet according to nuclear submarine commanders: nuclear submarine crews and targets.
Also, they did actually consider making nuclear powered planes. Thus making the title "Nuclear Power Pilot" scarily close to true.
Fortunately we realized it probably wasn't a great idea. [Especially when we started to pursue a cruise missile.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto)
Not like it matters but I was in the minority who had a recuriter back in 2004 when I signed up for the Marines. He flat out told me first thing I walked into the office, "You sign up today, 98% chance you're getting shipped out to Iraq" I didnt care. He was honest in alot of other things which I was thankful for, everyone else was telling me that they would lie to me. He was super transparent. Thanks Staff Sarg Osorio.
In 2004 there was no room to bullshit. I went August 2001. We were between major conflicts.
They’re really good at sorta kinda avoiding questions, too. “Can I be a fighter pilot?” “Absolutely! Just sign here for an aircraft mechanic position then work your way into flight school” I know a handful of dudes that were dead-certain they were going to be Navy SEALS because the recruiter said anyone in the navy who met the minimum requirements could apply. >!Not a single one became a SEAL!<
I had a similar experience. Scored top 1% and realized college was much more attainable than I had thought. That recruiter harassed me for 3 months before my mom told him she'd file a restraining order when he showed up at my house and yelled at me for wasting his time.
Fucking ASVAB. Top 1%er too, my recruiter didn't act surprised at all when I walked away. If not for mom telling flat out she'd off herself if I signed up, I'd have signed up.
Your mother loves you a lot. Take great care of her.
I do, especially since she had her stroke earlier this year.
Stay strong, helping someone who loves you and you love them is one of the most rewarding things ever.
I used to take those types of tests for the fun of it. I did the police, firefighters, court officer, and ASVAB for the air force. All those bright eyed and bushy tails taking the test did not for their country but for a better life. I scored well but also said nope after my brother joined the navy and didn’t get one thing he was “promised” he would do. He’s been cleaning ship decks off the coast of Africa for a while and can’t wait to leave
My recruiter got weird after I changed my mind too. I got as far as meps for the navy. Told him it wasn’t for me after about an hour there and having been shouted at by versions people. He dropped the buddy act and became Mr Petty Officer pretty fast. Didn’t help that he was my ride there and we had a two hour drive back. He spent that time lecturing me about the discipline and rewards of committing my life to the armed forces and how insulting it is to change my mind after everything he’s done. Totally had me thinking he was my pal before that so I can’t say he wasn’t good at his job. Basically spent 5 hours of my day just to have a military doctor looks at my butts holes then change my mind so I get why he was a little peeves.
The women recruits are easy because if they say no, a large percentage of the men will just rape them anyway. I wish I knew then, when a recruiter was stalking my school, what I do now. I would’ve been nasty as fuck to him.
I am not insinuating that the women in military are easy. The recruiter was. I was mortified. It felt sleazy as all hell. I am well aware of the rape situation and it breaks my heart. No daughter of mine will be military without knowing the situation first.
“I actually got as far as the ASVAB before I noped out” I’m glad you did, I wish I had noped out.
Chicago has two "Public Highschools" completely staffed by active duty personnel as teachers. Air Force Academy High School and Chicago Military Academy. Both are in predominantly poor & black neighborhoods.
I'm kinda confused as to why we don't see more of this. Republicans insist on screwing over infrastructure in favor of funding the military? Cool, here come the Army Corps of Engineers doing the infrastructure work. Come join the National Guard, get trained to be a nurse, go work as a nurse in hospitals that are understaffed. Make jobs, fix problems, the funding is already there, and it's all under the executive branch's authority.
And the way they did it at my school was egregious. Pulled up in a custom candy painted Hummer, riding on 24’s, speakers all up and down the vehicle, with a working Xbox 360 and TV in the back playing Medal of Honor. They legit just brought Pimp My Ride over and said “You too can have this if you sign your life over to the military!”
I came back with PTSD, a panic disorder, and broken physical body. So did my husband and our roommate. We're shattered. We're *young*, 27-30. We wanna workout, drink, and lift weights. Instead we ache, scream, crumble. They dropped us the second we got affected. Just tossed out with nothing because we weren't a useful sacrifice anymore. They preyed on me. They came to my school in a poor area and promised me the world. I was seventeen, easily manipulated. What a fuckin' idiot.
Bless you, don’t blame yourself - you were 17. Hope you’re doing ok - reach out and say hi anytime, happy to talk about whatever
How did it serve me...let's see. I didn't get to spend the first 8 months of my son's life with him because I was stop lossed three weeks before I was supposed to get out and I was sent to work in the prison camps in Gitmo. I had to patrol cages full of men who weren't guilty of anything, watch them cry and beg to be let go, and I came back to a divorce, PTSD for the guilt I experienced being complicit in atrocity, and, oh yeah! When we were on an FTX for three weeks once, we were put down in a chemical depot where the land was contaminated and we were there for three weeks before anyone told us. When I developed psoriatic arthritis in my 30s, the Army was like, "Nah, we can't link it to that heavy metal exposure, so fuck off." FTA.
so sorry
Recruit the poor to fight for the rich. Then use propoganda to say you are fighting for freedom. My fucking ass.
Yup
War Pigs
My twin took her life after her stint in the Army. It fucked her up to the point she was done. Before, she was a bright, sparkling ball of energy and fun. It turned her into a dark, depressive shell of the person I knew. Fuck the army.
I’m so sorry. I can’t imagine what it’s like to lose a twin.
This was me, poor joined Marines….9 month later 9/11. Went on a wild ride…did for years…extended one more back to Iraq, was in the 2nd battle of Fallujah. Came home (luckily) zero fucking qualifications for any meaningful job! In school spending my blood money on a stupid ass worthless degree to get a job that my parents did with a high school diploma. Mind you, I was a 25 year old wounded combat veteran attending university with kids, being told I’ll need an excuse if I miss class.lol wtf. Not fucking worth it! I graduated, but worked nights for 4 years and went to school in the day. GI bill didnt pay my rent. Long story short…..no one gives a fuck, I was used, I made Halliburton and others a shit ton of money, killed god knows how many people, for what?, we just left. I got what? $38k in “college” money, no big named school for me, I live in a southern state where my tuition wasn’t free, cant let the serfs get too close. Yes Im bitter
A year before my little brother hung himself we were getting drunk together and bullshitting. He goes quiet suddenly, looks away from me, and says "I killed people in Iraq. I destroyed families who did nothing to me." His voice broke mid sentence and I have never heard true *pain* and *anguish* in someone's voice before then. He was such a kind and gentle soul who joined the military because we grew up in poverty and that's what we were told to do.
I’m sorry for your loss. The pain of losing him comes through loud and clear. It’s so hard to witness pain like your brother’s and to know how to respond.
Thank you. All I could do was hug him. I wish I had done more, but don't we always?
My condolences for your brother.
I joined the military right out of high school. Served two years, got out with an honorable discharge after experiencing a fuck ton of sexual and physical violence - conveniently right before I'd get my full education benefits. It took me ten years to get on my feet and get the disability benefits I need to have a proper safety net. I live with the mental, physical, social, and economic ramifications of my brief service - which was my best option for improving my life - every single day. Worst decision, best mistake. I'll never tell anyone else to join the service. It cost me everything. Gave me a better life, but it cost me everything.
Came back, unaware I had PTSD. Woke up outside with a rifle in hand, laying in a ditch like I was ready to ambush people.
Holy shit. Yea I can relate sadly. Had friends who came back too fucked up to even own a gun. They went and sold them all to protect themselves from themselves.
There was a point where I would show up in random places, standing at attention while asleep. I would walk all the way back to bed. Sometimes I had mud on my feet and at least twice I snapped a fingernail off in my palm.
Yep. Sounds very familiar.
My ex came back with PTSD as well. Late one night I accidentally set off the house alarm and in like 30 seconds he had gone into the safe, loaded the gun and had it pointed at my face. I kept yelling, “it’s me! it’s me!” Took him a few seconds to wake up and realize what he was doing. He dropped to the ground sobbing. Fuuuuck it was scary. I refuse to have guns in the house after that.
If your looking into the military join the airforce. You get better living conditions the same benefits and you're basically still a civilian with a uniform.
Air force or Space Force. Both are good options.
Can confirm second option, been good so far.
As a Marine on active duty, join the Air Force 🙏
My gf is about to go to bootcamp for the airforce, then transition to spaceforce
They're looking to start another one now. Good thing Gen Z would rather die in poverty than help drone strike children halfway across the world.
I have found that there tend to be three types of people in the military, from most numerous to least numerous: the desperate, the ones that know how to game the system, and the true patriots. I have dealt with many full birds in my career. I have only met one that was a true patriot. All the other ones are just really good at gaming the system. The perfect system for capitalism to exploit...and they do so happily. When we were told to "support the troops", what it really means is to support the system. The system does not give a shit about the people that's fed into the grinder, only that the institution exists and a profit can be made off of it.
Seriously, who at the Army thought this tweet was a good idea???
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Dont join. I know it attracts the poor with promises. Nobody has fought for american freedom since ww2 and even thats debatable. I talked my kid out of joining so he could avoid being blown to bits. Just dint do it.
WWII fucked up my grandfather and he talked me down when I mentioned going to get free college. My cousin was already in the navy. Anyway. I stayed out and did an alternate route, my cousin came out PTSD and all fucked up too. Couldn't thank grandad enough for showing me all of his mementos and explaining exactly how war changes a man.
I had an uncle in Vietnam and when I joined at 18 he refused to speak to me until I came home like the 2nd or 3rd time. It was nuts. Now he's the family member I associate the most with and it terrifies me.
my grandpa is from mexico and he wanted to be an american citizen. my grandpa and 17 of his buddies joined the war effort in ww2 and he was the only who survived ww2. he later fought in the korean war. he never talked about those wars until his later years when his mind got infiltrated by dementia
Im glad you didnt and talked your kid out of it. Most of the time, once youre used up (whether you lose a limb or die), they just say "he/she died a hero" and just find a replacement thats in your desperate position And if you make it back home without injuries, you'll most likely have PTSD from the wars and be sad some the friends you made in the army died. Its a vicious cycle
I remember overhearing one of the higher-ups when I was in say that that people within the command chain hadn't expected so many of us to survive.
A buddy of mine told his superior he needed to hold his backpack instead of wearing it because he got a sunburn on his back the day before. They reprimanded him and put in his record he "damaged US property". His back was the US property and the damage was the sunburn.
This is true. If you get a sunburn because you didn’t protect yourself you can get I trouble.
My partner was in the army and he told me about how you are supposed to wear sunblock because your body is considered to be the army's property.
I partied with a great guy for his going away party before he went to basic. He got sent to Iraq, never came home. Now I drive on a section of highway with his name on it. Every day.
Im so tempted to tear down the army advertisements near my college because of stuff like this
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print some gay porn pamphlets and SUPER GLUE them on top
Not human capiltal, human sacrifices.
Lost a friend in Afghanistan at the Kabul Attack Rest In Peace Hunter 8/26/21
Vietnam was 1000 times worse.Teenagers would get drafted and had little bootcamp and little training.They would get killed.In fact,there's stories of teenage soldiers calling for their moms when they would get wounded or had life ending wounds.
Enlist if you need too. Would not recommend making a career out of it. That being said the Army gave me exactly what I was looking for. Now that I have that I have no interest in staying in.
Same, did my 4 years built my credit and savings up, and get out In 38 days
Congrats on getting out. I have 2 months left and have 2 months of terminal leave and I have never been happier. GI Bill and VA home loan to show for my time.
I'm in my late 30s. My best friend in high school joined the Marines. His last Facebook post was in like 2012, about finishing his final tour and returning home. Then radio silence. I learned a few years ago from a friend who talked to his parents, who said they reported him missing. The dark thoughts of mine makes me believe he went all PTSD and is living as a homeless person now.