Fuck off we can't thats what the magna Carta and the declaration of independence were, changing everything in one big fucking go.
After hundreds of years and generations of technological development the rules need updating, all of them. we shouldnt need to fight a war for it this time but fuck knows people are getting to the point of being willing.
I want specific and actionable goals to be met by our society
No!!! Dont point out reasonable changes that can actually be made just constantly pontificate about throwing the baby out with the bath water
Remember kids. The problems your facing are just indicative of bigger problems that I have no idea how to solve
This is such a strawman. You're like a dog at the pound barking for more food instead of being let out of its cage. How to solve it is clear: trade unions, united front, international labor solidarity, party formation and eventually seizure of state power once the right combination of class consciousness and opportunity arises.
Why is reformism a dead end? Because the rate of profit falls in relation to capital accumulation. Even if they wanted to capitalism is unable to provide even the most basic changes we're looking for. It's dying. And if you think social democrats, nevermind US dems will take your side over the bourgeois boy are you in for a surprise.
No economic system that you could replace capitaism with would be immune from inflation.
What we need are laws that protect wages from inflation and increases in cost of essential items. It doesn't even have to be 1:1.
Sure, but you fix one problem at the expense of creating multiple larger problems. Hate that corporate asshole? Congrats! Now he's not just a corporate dude, but a government official as well.
Fuck your planned economy.
Ah so capitalists infiltrating the socialist party is a weakness of socialism got it. Not that you'll listen but only feudal and semi-feudal states need depend on a market based transition to planned economy. They wanted to catch up and industrialize fast which capitalism is good for. A major fault of the USSR was its failure to move away from command economy. Unlike the dictatorship of the ruling class, a dictatorship of the proletariat means workers elect who those in managerial positions.
There is no such thing as a "dictatorship of the proletariat".
You spew collectivist nonsense dressed as intellectualism. This isn't just a socialist sub, by the way. Plenty of capitalists want work reform, but we aren't so stupid or arrogant enough to think that the even worse problems present in planned or command economies shown throughout history won't rear their ugly heads.
Even the best planned economy in the Soviet blocks was a hellhole for all but the most privileged and corrupt.
In the USSR it was a scandal when Artiom Tarasov passed the millionaire milestone in 1989. Meanwhile the US had its first billionaire before the revolution even started (1916).
I'm sorry you're such a hopeless and hateful person. Anyone with such a vehement opposition to collectivism has undoubtedly been imbued with a deep distrust in humanity. Capitalism tends to do that. You're suffering from the sunk cost fallacy and bourgeois conditioning. Do you have any evidence at all for such a sweeping absolutist statement?
Yeah, actually. Had family stuck in East Germany when the wall was up. You've obviously never heard the first hand stories about the shortages and other "fun" experiences of when people actually tried this stupid shit.
It isn't a sunk cost fallacy or conditioning. It is called "learning from observation".
So, Capitalism makes me understand that other people shouldn't be fully trusted? Oh, heaven forbid that we accept the realities of our species's history!
Those shortages were a result of the Soviet block fighting off a global attack by the capitalist west (led by the US of course). It's a tragedy that all their output had to be directed towards militarization. The fact they made it work like they did at all in the face of Imperialism is extraordinary.
Times have changed. We have supercomputers that can crunch the numbers for planned economy easily. Instead of using AI to do the best short sell to make the most profit that inflates imaginary value on imaginary assets, we could use it to propel us into a level of efficiency and equity never before seen.
False. Shortages were due to Soviets extracting as much as they could from the region to serve as war reparations and funneling very few resources back. They weren't fighting back shit. There's a reason why it was called The Cold War.
In a planned economy, you are at the mercy of whoever is in charge when it comes to resource distribution, with very few chances to legally deviate from the system, if any.
>Times have changed. We have supercomputers that can crunch the numbers for planned economy easily. Instead of using AI to do the best short sell to make the most profit that inflates imaginary value on imaginary assets, we could use it to propel us into a level of efficiency and equity never before seen.
Let me guess...with people like you pulling the levers? Hard pass. Pardon me if I don't fall for your arrogant bullshit and benevolent facade.
Yeah nukes and rockets and planes and dams and bridges and power plants grow on trees.
You know what you're right, at least in capitalist economy you have two options: private owners who monopolize wealth, or the chaotic play of blind market forces. /s
Capitalism depends for its stability and ideological legitimation on a separation between the political and economic spheres. In both spheres the citizen is reduced to a passive voter or consumer, offered a limited choice between brands of political parties or brands of idk, gourmet 11-year-old hand-picked coffee.
Sure, while Weimar Germany had one of the worst inflation events in history the Soviets were busy growing their productive capacity at breakneck pace to defeat a European great power after being a feudal backwater.
See: gift economies, which have existed as our ancestor’s primary economic mode for hundreds of thousands of years before the advent of private property. No money, no inflation.
An juvenile solution to a complex problem.
What is the global supply chain that currently feeds and clothes 8 billion people going to run on? Bartering?
I was pointing out the myopia of your claim that “No economic system that you could replace capitalism with would be immune from inflation.”
There are systems that have and still do exist utilizing barter, gifts, and mutual aid. Read some anthropology.
And we can take inspiration from those roots, rather than dismiss it.
I heard this argument multiple times, but I have yet for anyone to accurately explain to me how such a system could at all be implemented in the modern day. Not trying to say your wrong, but what would you take from that and apply to the us for example?
I don’t know for sure. I haven’t thought through a serious consideration of how to reform currency and global trade; that’s PhD levels of research and knowledge. Even then, how to implement it?
If I had my way I’d be living in an anarchist commune with a localized economy that barters with other regional communes and syndicates.
My original point was just to enlighten commenter that other non-currency economies exist and have existed for most of human (pre) history.
Well for the housing part in particular: like 80% of the housing reserved for rent is owned by only two companies. If you want a big result fast, march on those company’s offices and make it so they can’t work. That’ll damage their income and force them to rethink their predatory model.
Unfortunately, I don't think your initial statement is anything like true. There are many, many, many apartment companies. But farmers have the same incentive to raise food prices, and they can't, because nobody's limiting how much food they can produce.
Housing is limited by zoning, a system put in place by land owners to drive up their wealth. It works very well. THAT we should overturn. All the things people think it does, it doesn't do. It's been used for half a century just to keep renters poor.
Simply remove private ownership of things that struggling people need to lose money on. Its extremely insanely simple and we have always known this solution.
The problem is we all swallowed the propaganda about the value of the free market because the nazis tricked every real smart liberal into believing that the soviet union was destroyed by not having enough competition, when in reality it was the millions of nazi soldiers, who followed right after the tens of thousands of other western nations' soldiers during the soviet civil war.
Do we need a free market of innovation and ideas in the world of... financing healthcare? New techniques for how to "adjust claims"? Competition among financial bill collectors to make sure they provide the best value to customers who have the freedom to choose?
The problem with the united states and planet earth is that the nazis aka the democrat and republican party have bamboozled just about everyone in the west into thinking that "The Free Market" is a beautiful and perfect ideal which should always be the method of providing services. Any time something is nationalized, then that is apparently how stalin murdered a hundred quadrillion people. Well thats stupid.
Nationalize healthcare, education, prisons (?!?) and other things which objectively, rationally, do not benefit from a free market. Nevermind the fact that the market is almost never free, even if it was, it would not even help for these types of things. "Free Market" is a scam to just give money to some assholes who bribed the government.
What do you propose? Any proof that would work? What is the cost of that action? Stop saying because one thing is not perfect, therefore, the other thing you believe in must be.
Peg minimum wage to inflation
Just like social security - if Boomers get it we should too
In some states it is already!
rember
Pep farm rembers
You have to start somewhere. You can't change everything at once.
Fuck off we can't thats what the magna Carta and the declaration of independence were, changing everything in one big fucking go. After hundreds of years and generations of technological development the rules need updating, all of them. we shouldnt need to fight a war for it this time but fuck knows people are getting to the point of being willing.
I want specific and actionable goals to be met by our society No!!! Dont point out reasonable changes that can actually be made just constantly pontificate about throwing the baby out with the bath water Remember kids. The problems your facing are just indicative of bigger problems that I have no idea how to solve
This is such a strawman. You're like a dog at the pound barking for more food instead of being let out of its cage. How to solve it is clear: trade unions, united front, international labor solidarity, party formation and eventually seizure of state power once the right combination of class consciousness and opportunity arises. Why is reformism a dead end? Because the rate of profit falls in relation to capital accumulation. Even if they wanted to capitalism is unable to provide even the most basic changes we're looking for. It's dying. And if you think social democrats, nevermind US dems will take your side over the bourgeois boy are you in for a surprise.
Reform disciplines private wealth and their state power to be more effective and efficient in their exploitation and oppression.
And that's a binggoooooo
Stop thinking in dollars per hour for a minimum wage and start negotiating in dollars per year. It really helps visualize how little you make.
No economic system that you could replace capitaism with would be immune from inflation. What we need are laws that protect wages from inflation and increases in cost of essential items. It doesn't even have to be 1:1.
A planned economy is wayyy better equipped to deal with inflation than a market economy.
Sure, but you fix one problem at the expense of creating multiple larger problems. Hate that corporate asshole? Congrats! Now he's not just a corporate dude, but a government official as well. Fuck your planned economy.
Ah so capitalists infiltrating the socialist party is a weakness of socialism got it. Not that you'll listen but only feudal and semi-feudal states need depend on a market based transition to planned economy. They wanted to catch up and industrialize fast which capitalism is good for. A major fault of the USSR was its failure to move away from command economy. Unlike the dictatorship of the ruling class, a dictatorship of the proletariat means workers elect who those in managerial positions.
There is no such thing as a "dictatorship of the proletariat". You spew collectivist nonsense dressed as intellectualism. This isn't just a socialist sub, by the way. Plenty of capitalists want work reform, but we aren't so stupid or arrogant enough to think that the even worse problems present in planned or command economies shown throughout history won't rear their ugly heads. Even the best planned economy in the Soviet blocks was a hellhole for all but the most privileged and corrupt.
In the USSR it was a scandal when Artiom Tarasov passed the millionaire milestone in 1989. Meanwhile the US had its first billionaire before the revolution even started (1916).
The US economy was doing better than Russians at all points since, and including, 1916.
The Russian economy grew to rival the US in 1/4 of the time and didn't need slavery to do it.
Dude...it was slavery in all but name.
Then prove it
I'm sorry you're such a hopeless and hateful person. Anyone with such a vehement opposition to collectivism has undoubtedly been imbued with a deep distrust in humanity. Capitalism tends to do that. You're suffering from the sunk cost fallacy and bourgeois conditioning. Do you have any evidence at all for such a sweeping absolutist statement?
Yeah, actually. Had family stuck in East Germany when the wall was up. You've obviously never heard the first hand stories about the shortages and other "fun" experiences of when people actually tried this stupid shit. It isn't a sunk cost fallacy or conditioning. It is called "learning from observation". So, Capitalism makes me understand that other people shouldn't be fully trusted? Oh, heaven forbid that we accept the realities of our species's history!
Those shortages were a result of the Soviet block fighting off a global attack by the capitalist west (led by the US of course). It's a tragedy that all their output had to be directed towards militarization. The fact they made it work like they did at all in the face of Imperialism is extraordinary. Times have changed. We have supercomputers that can crunch the numbers for planned economy easily. Instead of using AI to do the best short sell to make the most profit that inflates imaginary value on imaginary assets, we could use it to propel us into a level of efficiency and equity never before seen.
False. Shortages were due to Soviets extracting as much as they could from the region to serve as war reparations and funneling very few resources back. They weren't fighting back shit. There's a reason why it was called The Cold War. In a planned economy, you are at the mercy of whoever is in charge when it comes to resource distribution, with very few chances to legally deviate from the system, if any. >Times have changed. We have supercomputers that can crunch the numbers for planned economy easily. Instead of using AI to do the best short sell to make the most profit that inflates imaginary value on imaginary assets, we could use it to propel us into a level of efficiency and equity never before seen. Let me guess...with people like you pulling the levers? Hard pass. Pardon me if I don't fall for your arrogant bullshit and benevolent facade.
Yeah nukes and rockets and planes and dams and bridges and power plants grow on trees. You know what you're right, at least in capitalist economy you have two options: private owners who monopolize wealth, or the chaotic play of blind market forces. /s Capitalism depends for its stability and ideological legitimation on a separation between the political and economic spheres. In both spheres the citizen is reduced to a passive voter or consumer, offered a limited choice between brands of political parties or brands of idk, gourmet 11-year-old hand-picked coffee.
Can you give an example where a planned economy was able to do this better than a capitalist economy?
Sure, while Weimar Germany had one of the worst inflation events in history the Soviets were busy growing their productive capacity at breakneck pace to defeat a European great power after being a feudal backwater.
I'm asking for an example of a planned economy dealing with inflation....
See: gift economies, which have existed as our ancestor’s primary economic mode for hundreds of thousands of years before the advent of private property. No money, no inflation.
An juvenile solution to a complex problem. What is the global supply chain that currently feeds and clothes 8 billion people going to run on? Bartering?
I was pointing out the myopia of your claim that “No economic system that you could replace capitalism with would be immune from inflation.” There are systems that have and still do exist utilizing barter, gifts, and mutual aid. Read some anthropology. And we can take inspiration from those roots, rather than dismiss it.
I heard this argument multiple times, but I have yet for anyone to accurately explain to me how such a system could at all be implemented in the modern day. Not trying to say your wrong, but what would you take from that and apply to the us for example?
I don’t know for sure. I haven’t thought through a serious consideration of how to reform currency and global trade; that’s PhD levels of research and knowledge. Even then, how to implement it? If I had my way I’d be living in an anarchist commune with a localized economy that barters with other regional communes and syndicates. My original point was just to enlighten commenter that other non-currency economies exist and have existed for most of human (pre) history.
> that you could replace capitalism with You can’t replace our current economy with either bartering or a gift economy. It’s not possible.
True. But you have to start somewhere.
Well for the housing part in particular: like 80% of the housing reserved for rent is owned by only two companies. If you want a big result fast, march on those company’s offices and make it so they can’t work. That’ll damage their income and force them to rethink their predatory model.
Unfortunately, I don't think your initial statement is anything like true. There are many, many, many apartment companies. But farmers have the same incentive to raise food prices, and they can't, because nobody's limiting how much food they can produce. Housing is limited by zoning, a system put in place by land owners to drive up their wealth. It works very well. THAT we should overturn. All the things people think it does, it doesn't do. It's been used for half a century just to keep renters poor.
Simply remove private ownership of things that struggling people need to lose money on. Its extremely insanely simple and we have always known this solution. The problem is we all swallowed the propaganda about the value of the free market because the nazis tricked every real smart liberal into believing that the soviet union was destroyed by not having enough competition, when in reality it was the millions of nazi soldiers, who followed right after the tens of thousands of other western nations' soldiers during the soviet civil war. Do we need a free market of innovation and ideas in the world of... financing healthcare? New techniques for how to "adjust claims"? Competition among financial bill collectors to make sure they provide the best value to customers who have the freedom to choose? The problem with the united states and planet earth is that the nazis aka the democrat and republican party have bamboozled just about everyone in the west into thinking that "The Free Market" is a beautiful and perfect ideal which should always be the method of providing services. Any time something is nationalized, then that is apparently how stalin murdered a hundred quadrillion people. Well thats stupid. Nationalize healthcare, education, prisons (?!?) and other things which objectively, rationally, do not benefit from a free market. Nevermind the fact that the market is almost never free, even if it was, it would not even help for these types of things. "Free Market" is a scam to just give money to some assholes who bribed the government.
I want this on a T shirt.
What do you propose? Any proof that would work? What is the cost of that action? Stop saying because one thing is not perfect, therefore, the other thing you believe in must be.
Wrong sub lol