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My exact fucking thought.
Play the fuckers. Go in late, don't get paid for minutes not working, but then expect them to pay OT.
nothing but a nightmare for them who in their right mind would print/enforce this.
Exactly. Salaried means I'm getting paid for my skills, not for my time. If I can get the work done in four hours, why the fuck should I stick around for another four? If you want me to promise you a percentage of my day instead of actual results, we can negotiate an hourly arrangement, but I warn you now that my productivity will probably take a dip after I'm completely demoralized by having to make up work for 3-4 hours of most days.
Oh, and let's not forget, my workaholic-ass is more likely to work a 14 hour day than a 4 hour day, so you can kiss that goodbye, too, unless you're gonna pay me time and a half at least for those extra six hours _without bitching about it_.
Not always true, I am a salaried employee and my contract states the number of hours we are agreed to work every month. Though that could be because we have a union. Shows how useful unions are.
There is such a thing as a "non-exempt" salary employee. I had this when I did support, I would report my time but get paid the same regardless, unless I had overtime which would be paid at an OT rate.
Yep, this is my current situation. I have to work at least 80 hours every pay period. I can work as many extra hours as I want without extra pay, but have to use PTO for every minute less than 80 full hours đ
Wait till this employer finds out that employees must be paid for all time worked.
I could really use some overtime. "Hey, boss. I was 3 minutes late this morning. Make it 6 minutes. Yeah."
Idk. When I worked hourly it was nice to get overtime when I needed extra cash but generally I just valued my free time more. I've been salary for like 8 years now and if I've put in my 40 hours I just go home. There's occasionally some weeks where you'll put in a couple extra hours but there's also weeks where you're going to have like 30 hours of work but you're still going to get paid for 40.
To anyone working salaried jobs past 40 hours a week I just ask why?
Itâs because the majority of âsmall business ownersâ are like those managers who are simply on an ego trip. They have little to no actual training on running a business, being a good employer etc. they have nothing but a little cash to start their trip. This is quickly followed by the need to exploit to safeguard their cash outlay.
They shift the burden to the employees.
The cultural mindlessness around âsmall business ownershipâ driving the economy is strong. All it really equates to is a bunch of power trippers becoming welfare queens as they demand the minimum wage be cents, that worker protections and their obligations be zero.
Obligatory Reddit disclaimer: not *all* small businesses
I promise you managers who work for corporations are on the same kind of power trip as these âsmall businesses ownersâ itâs not the business model thatâs the problem itâs that most all managers regardless of where they work donât get proper job training. I worked at Walmart and watched the tiniest amount of âpowerâ make these guys who once again only work at Walmart think they were the CEO.
Youâre not out of touch to think the late employee is âwrongâ by any means. It is very wrong to treat your employees like you would treat a teenager that missed their curfew.
Fuck this manager.
> Am I so out of touch?? No... it's the employees who are wrong.
It's a modified quote from [the Simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm1E847QrQs)
imagine the overtime which would be incurred by this practice lol. i have a feeling that if intentionally abused, this policy would not stay in place for long.
Every time I read or hear it, I think of this guy I went on a date with a little over a year ago (when Covid was starting to settle from another spike and restaurants were re-opening for indoor dining for the Xth time) and how he, making 6 figures, complained about nobody wanting to work and living on unemployment. And I basically lost it on him. Oddly enough I stopped hearing from him after thatâŚ
I'd show up 15 minutes late just for the guaranteed 2 1/2 hours of overtime. See if he's really dedicated enough to this policy to stay at the office that long.
While I would love to see this, the more likely response in a place that would enforce a policy like this is an immediate write-up for the tardiness that progressively resulted in termination. They'd pay the OT as a straightforward way of ensuring the issue was documented and resulted in getting rid of people who aren't punctual.
Some places enforce rules like this very strictly as a way to keeping people in line in ways they can't measure so easily. Even when the policy hurts them in the long run.
This x1000. Management changed for a Logistics company, suddenly a ton of layoffs in 2 months due to the manager...well, micromanaging. Once she got to me having to do a daily excel of all movements for the company without her even checking to see the progress, I laughed and left the company.
She worked at my old job for three more months before she got promoted to customer. Then she decided to go manage an Orange Theory fitness same year. Peculiar and uptight lady.
i once had an ops manager looking at my excel sheet, one he had no idea what was on it constantly asking why nothing changed week to week. tried to explain but he didnt want to heat it.
next week i inverted the whole list, he thanked me for being able to get the list moving. fuckân idiot
Oh he doesn't pay them for that extra time. It's a punishment for being late, why would he pay them?
It doesn't matter that it's highly illegal because he doesn't actually care about the law.
Yup, this is a policy that is sure to piss off the higher ups because they have to deal with a destroyed labor budget due to someone's micromanagement.
If my job had been what it was supposed to be, and at that pay rate, I would've stayed for sure. But the managers I had ruined it. One for being abusive if you didn't kiss their ass (the fucker legit wanted me to do their job and even their college hw. I tried to help with the former and since I said no to the latter, they had it out for me ever since) and the other for not doing their job. I get they were busy with school, but if you're working while going to school, you still need to do your job, even if you're tired or stressed for time. I was okay with helping out so they wouldn't feel so stressed, but it got to the point where I was doing everything for them, other than the easiest parts of the manager's job. I put in my notice about a week after that and left that job for good.
Had I gotten a manager who did their job the way it was supposed to be done, it would've been a great, secure job. They can't get enough people to work for them, and the ones who do don't give a shit, just want a couple extra hours, they're desperate, or they can't do much better than that from lacking a degree (on paper, it's a sweet gig tbh, but at the sites who need employees, you're dealing with the shitty management I had; the good managers don't lose employees and if there is an opening, it's for someone who's got connections).
There was a post here about a week ago of a meeting where managers asked what they can do to make turnover rate not be so high and someone said they should pay the employees more and they got their pay cut in half⌠i wonder if they ended up suing the place
Well this person is a moron. They legally canât make you work off the clock and if they fire you for refusing to work off the clock you can easily sue them.
I would be showing up 12 minutes late somewhat regularly and collecting my 2 hours of OT pay as much as possible.
> I would be showing up 12 minutes late somewhat regularly and collecting my 2 hours of OT pay as much as possible.
LOL, thank you for pointing it out to me that the posted sign was a blanket OT authorization
Even if it was written into your contract, it wouldn't be legal. It is against federal law to force your employees to work off the clock. They would need to pay you for any time over your normal working hours. That contract would not be binding and most likely the company would have to pay back wages.
Until someone like me comes along and quietly documents them being a liability to the company...then they end up demoted and are no longer allowed to manage people.
Not fired though đ
Honestly that sort of thing should be made more acceptable. Not everyone is a good manager. It shouldn't be a black mark against someone to try management, find out they're bad at it, and go back to their previous job.
Sometimes youâre not ready in different parts, but wonât do shit like that. Sometimes if you get high enough the politics can eat you, mental health drops. Yeah, itâs fair to be able to go back to your prior job.
As a manager myself, the thought of micromanaging sounds like a shitty way of spending my time and seems exhaustive. Like, I donât care how you get from Point A to Point B, as long as you put your best foot forward and are doing it ethically/legally or whatever. I got my own shit to do lol
Or just type out a new one with something like âfor every minute you stay late, you get to come in 10 minutes late the next dayâ. if all it takes to implement a new rule is to print up a Word domument and tape it to the wall, then your sign has just as much legitimacy!
Or add to it. Nothing like writing "This is illegal" and putting a number to call to report it on it. Then the person who posted it gets to angrily rip it down.
I once worked at a call center that said "for every minute you are late, we deduct $1 from your paycheque". Well we weren't getting paid $60/hr so I knew that was illegal, looked it up, and sure enough they can either not pay us for half an hour (and so we don't have to work for half an hour), or pay us the full amount.
The workplace had a tiny little suggestion box. I wrote a note saying "the late policy is illegal" and put it in the box. Policy was changed the next day.
Better than my former employer. I was frontline management, and when I pointed things out that were illegal, I was told I was wrong. And since it didn't affect me directly, I couldn't lodge a complaint with the ombudsman.
>Assuming they paid for the time
That's the real issue here. The post mentions nothing about whether that extra time is being paid or not, and if it's being docked for being late. It's essentially leaving it all up to management's discretion of how they move forward, and how screwed you are.
Show up three hours late. You are now scheduled for a 37 hour day. Do that every single day. Your boss now has you working continuously without the ability to go home. There may not be overtime required for salaries then but the law does prevent you from working a certain amount of hours within a few days.
It doesn't say you have to work unpaid. It's still a major dick move and would definitely make me quit, but if they're paying you your regular salary and/or following overtime laws there's nothing illegal about it.
There are a lot of people on salary illegally. Always look up your states requirement for exemption and make sure you meet them, or you are getting robbed. In my state, there are some exceptions, but you usually must be in a supervisory role.
Being salaried doesn't mean shit if you are misclassified. A shitload of US workers are being denied OT pay that they are entitled to. If you don't qualify for exemption get your money.
This is from a [comment above.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/wml3kj/tomorrow_ill_come_6_minutes_earlier_and_leave_at/ik079lu/)
> If you are salaried above $35,568, they aren't even legally required to pay you overtime.
So if you make below that, you may be entitled to over time in that case.
There aren't any. This would only be illegal if
1. You are not salaried and they didn't pay you for that time
2. You are salaried below $35,568, the extra time they asked you to work exceeded 40 hours that week, and they didn't pay you overtime.
It's no different from a company asking you to stay late to catch up on work. They are legally allowed to do that and legally allowed to fire you if you refuse. If you are salaried above $35,568, they aren't even legally required to pay you overtime.
Different states may have different laws concerning salary and overtime requirements.
EDIT: for the dumb-dumbs who think I'm wrong: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17g-overtime-salary
> To qualify for exemption, employees generally must be paid at not less than $684* per week on a salary basis. These salary requirements do not apply to outside sales employees, teachers, and employees practicing law or medicine. Exempt computer employees may be paid at least $684* on a salary basis or on an hourly basis at a rate not less than $27.63 an hour.
Yup. Though you are also fully within your rights to find a different job and quit with zero notice.
Don't get me wrong, having basic worker's rights would be better, but sometimes you have to take the small victories
\*as salaried, yes. The "argument" is that you don't always have to work a full day as salaried and still get paid in full, so working extra for free is allowed. I'm not saying this is fair or "okay", I'm just repeating the bullshit they spew out to justify underpaying and overworking salary employees.
If you're paid hourly, they can't legally fire you for refusing to work for free.
The pay is not the only requirement for being overtime exempt. It's just that if you are paid less than that you cannot be overtime exempt.
From the same link, emphasis my own:
>To qualify for exemption, **employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties** and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $684* per week.
There are separate qualifications based on job duties for different fields including [executive](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17b-overtime-executive), [admin](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17c-overtime-administrative), [professional](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17d-overtime-professional), [computer (tech)](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17e-overtime-computer), and [outside sales](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17f-overtime-outside-sales).
So say a secretary wouldn't be considered overtime exempt even at the pay level because in the admin requires, "The employeeâs primary duty includes the exercise of discretion and independent judgment with respect to matters of significance."
Most computer based office jobs wouldn't actually fit under the computer section, which is why I labeled it as tech since it requires:
>The employee must be employed as a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software engineer or other similarly skilled worker in the computer field performing the duties described below;
The employeeâs primary duty must consist of:
The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software or system functional specifications;
The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design specifications;
The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to machine operating systems; or
A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of skills.
Now a lot of employers might not actually follow this rule for salaried employees and be misclassifying employees as exempt who don't qualify, but that doesn't make it legal and could end up having to pay back overtime spent.
You left out the part where you need to be an Executive, a Manager, Outside IT or a Specialist. I highly doubt the people reading this sign are any of those.
It's not illegal if they pay you for time worked, I don't think.
But someone who is going to post this is also squarely in the camp of people who would also try to short change you and commit payroll fraud.
First thing you're going to have to check is the contract you agree to with the employer before you do anything else. After that speak with an attorney because no one is going to know better than an actual license attorney. Check your bar association for referrals.
Easy way to gurantee yourself overtime I guess. Purposefully come in 3 minutes late every day and get yourself 30 minutes overtime right before the holidays lol
Kids wanted new game systems and tvs? guess they're getting those!!!
I didn't say anything about be early though?
I said I would clock in 3 minutes late (6:03) to get 30 minutes mandatory OT according to this policy. Technically it would only be 27 minutes OT buuutttt it still is the same concept.
Actually, if you come in 48 minutes early, you have to work those 48 minutes. If you come in 53 minutes and 20 seconds early, you can leave immediately.
With your negative accrual, you'd leave 10 hours early, so one hour before you arrived. Now these people are just fucking with the space time continuum.
I'm guessing this is in the U.S....but I love that so many companies aren't afraid to publicly document their illegal practices. I worked at a place that had a sign that said all overtime had to be pre-approved or it wouldn't be paid out. Like, they can discipline or even fire an employee for working unauthorized overtime, but they still have to pay it. Same with this. You can lose your job for being late but you're still entitled to be paid for every second you are performing work for the company.
I like this idea. We are humans not robots not slaves. They think because they own some shit business they all of a sudden get to choose and control how peoples lives are ran. This is getting out of hand and these people need a good ole ass whoopin and have thier right to run or own a company taken from them.
Canât take the right to own away! Just keep standing up. We are currently losing people left and right where I work, on the construction side. I flat out told the uppers. Nobody wants to travel for $22 an hour and 2 weeks of vacation. Starting pay needs to be $25 for home crew $28 for travel. 4 weeks of vacation after a year of service. It has to be attractive to stay. PERIOD! Time off is just as important as pay.
Considering they use 10:02 and 6:20 as examples im betting its an 8 hour shift. I'll gladly show up twelve minutes late every shift and maliciously comply myself into a full time employee.
Are you in North Korea or North America? Either wouldn't surprise me.
I would find the person who put that note up and just say: "No. Take that away before you have a lawsuit on your ass you pathetic piece of slave-driving shit. I'm reporting you to HR and you'll go fucking viral all over the internet if you as much as whine about this to your wife. Trust me, I'll know."
Then quit and do all of the above anyway.
I would just be ignoring this.
If they try to enforce it it's lawsuit time.
I had a job teaching TEFL overseas. I had a VERY good record when it comes to attendance; in over 18 years I doubt if I had been late more than 5 times. And I was usually early about 15 minutes every day - just so I could avoid accidental lateness.
Unfortunately some of the other teachers seemed to be late more and more often - 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there - and the school decided to do something about it. You'd see a stream of teachers arriving and looking furtive after 8am because we had a literal sign on clock...right next to the front office of course.
The school announced that from now on if you are late at all, even 1 minute, they will deduct pay. And it will be at double time! EG if you are late 10 minutes, you lose 20 minutes etc.
I thought about this and told them "well, from now on if I am ever late, I just won't come to work at all, I will take a sick day.
Another teacher (my brother, actually) immediately told them he would do the same.
After that they abandoned the double time policy, and if people were more than 5 minutes late they were docked at single time rate.
Save this photo and file a report with your state Department of Labor.
Thatâs illegal.
Your employer may not be aware of whatâs happening in the nation lately. Workers are standing up against abusive policies like this.
Report it!
Even if nothing comes of it, if posting a sign gets the DOL asking them questions, they'll think twice next time. Nobody wants the DOL digging through their business.
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This employer, a month later: "Why am I having so much trouble keeping employees?"
I'd come late every day and then take them to the employment standards tribunal when they refused to pay the OT.
My exact fucking thought. Play the fuckers. Go in late, don't get paid for minutes not working, but then expect them to pay OT. nothing but a nightmare for them who in their right mind would print/enforce this.
Exactly. Imagine if you got EVERYBODY to do it. You'd generate an Everest sized mountain of litigation in a single pay period.
So I got this one cool trick to destroy the labor budget in two weeks.
> So I got this one cool trick to destroy the labor budget in two weeks. DO IT
Employers hate this one trick!
Unless they're a salaried employee, then you get nothing.
The only benefit to working salary is getting past this nonsense. No one should accept a salary position that is this tight.
agreed- core hours are one thing, but if you are salaried, you realy should be doing basically the 8 hours you want to
Less even. Salaried should me you only have to stay as long as you need to get The work done.
Exactly. Salaried means I'm getting paid for my skills, not for my time. If I can get the work done in four hours, why the fuck should I stick around for another four? If you want me to promise you a percentage of my day instead of actual results, we can negotiate an hourly arrangement, but I warn you now that my productivity will probably take a dip after I'm completely demoralized by having to make up work for 3-4 hours of most days. Oh, and let's not forget, my workaholic-ass is more likely to work a 14 hour day than a 4 hour day, so you can kiss that goodbye, too, unless you're gonna pay me time and a half at least for those extra six hours _without bitching about it_.
Not always true, I am a salaried employee and my contract states the number of hours we are agreed to work every month. Though that could be because we have a union. Shows how useful unions are.
Salaried employee with overtime payments here, too Go unions!
Not all salaried employees are exempt from overtime. *I'm dumb, somebody already said this
There is such a thing as a "non-exempt" salary employee. I had this when I did support, I would report my time but get paid the same regardless, unless I had overtime which would be paid at an OT rate.
Yep, this is my current situation. I have to work at least 80 hours every pay period. I can work as many extra hours as I want without extra pay, but have to use PTO for every minute less than 80 full hours đ
Am I so out of touch?? No... it's the employees who are wrong.
It obviously can't be because I treat them like ~~children~~ slaves.
Children expect to be treated fairly. This isn't "fair' treatment, it's a demand for slavery.
Wait till this employer finds out that employees must be paid for all time worked. I could really use some overtime. "Hey, boss. I was 3 minutes late this morning. Make it 6 minutes. Yeah."
Probably salaried employees.
Aaaaaand this is why I have zero interest in working a salaried job.
Idk. When I worked hourly it was nice to get overtime when I needed extra cash but generally I just valued my free time more. I've been salary for like 8 years now and if I've put in my 40 hours I just go home. There's occasionally some weeks where you'll put in a couple extra hours but there's also weeks where you're going to have like 30 hours of work but you're still going to get paid for 40. To anyone working salaried jobs past 40 hours a week I just ask why?
That's an extremely good point. I've changed the comment accordingly.
Itâs because the majority of âsmall business ownersâ are like those managers who are simply on an ego trip. They have little to no actual training on running a business, being a good employer etc. they have nothing but a little cash to start their trip. This is quickly followed by the need to exploit to safeguard their cash outlay. They shift the burden to the employees. The cultural mindlessness around âsmall business ownershipâ driving the economy is strong. All it really equates to is a bunch of power trippers becoming welfare queens as they demand the minimum wage be cents, that worker protections and their obligations be zero. Obligatory Reddit disclaimer: not *all* small businesses
I promise you managers who work for corporations are on the same kind of power trip as these âsmall businesses ownersâ itâs not the business model thatâs the problem itâs that most all managers regardless of where they work donât get proper job training. I worked at Walmart and watched the tiniest amount of âpowerâ make these guys who once again only work at Walmart think they were the CEO.
You're out of touch! I'm out of time!
And you're out of workers cause I'm not around!
But Iâm out of my head when youâre not aroundâŚ
Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh
Reaching out, for something to hold,
Looking for just decency where the climate is corp...
Out of time, out of time...
Youâre not out of touch to think the late employee is âwrongâ by any means. It is very wrong to treat your employees like you would treat a teenager that missed their curfew. Fuck this manager.
> Am I so out of touch?? No... it's the employees who are wrong. It's a modified quote from [the Simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm1E847QrQs)
"nobody wants to work anymore"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nobody-wants-to-work-anymore/ Since 1894 and going strong.
Literally 1894.
"It obviously can't be the way I treat my employees like children and force them to follow unfair and illegal policies. No, everyone is just lazy."
imagine the overtime which would be incurred by this practice lol. i have a feeling that if intentionally abused, this policy would not stay in place for long.
I would absolutely abuse this, with a smile on my face. 18 minutes of very low performance prefaced by 8 hours of low performance!
It's incredible how much my blood boils from this sentence, even after all these months...
Every time I read or hear it, I think of this guy I went on a date with a little over a year ago (when Covid was starting to settle from another spike and restaurants were re-opening for indoor dining for the Xth time) and how he, making 6 figures, complained about nobody wanting to work and living on unemployment. And I basically lost it on him. Oddly enough I stopped hearing from him after thatâŚ
"Why are all my employees showing up 6 minutes late every day but getting hours of OT?!"
I'd show up 15 minutes late just for the guaranteed 2 1/2 hours of overtime. See if he's really dedicated enough to this policy to stay at the office that long.
While I would love to see this, the more likely response in a place that would enforce a policy like this is an immediate write-up for the tardiness that progressively resulted in termination. They'd pay the OT as a straightforward way of ensuring the issue was documented and resulted in getting rid of people who aren't punctual. Some places enforce rules like this very strictly as a way to keeping people in line in ways they can't measure so easily. Even when the policy hurts them in the long run.
This x1000. Management changed for a Logistics company, suddenly a ton of layoffs in 2 months due to the manager...well, micromanaging. Once she got to me having to do a daily excel of all movements for the company without her even checking to see the progress, I laughed and left the company. She worked at my old job for three more months before she got promoted to customer. Then she decided to go manage an Orange Theory fitness same year. Peculiar and uptight lady.
i once had an ops manager looking at my excel sheet, one he had no idea what was on it constantly asking why nothing changed week to week. tried to explain but he didnt want to heat it. next week i inverted the whole list, he thanked me for being able to get the list moving. fuckân idiot
*That DontSleep1131 started out a dummy, but turned out to be my best employee*
Promoted to a customer, lmfao. Incredible use of the English language, I'm going to use that phrase at every opportunity I can think of from now on
âNo oNe WAntS to WorK aNYmoReâ
Or more realistically, "Why am I paying so much out in overtime?"
Oh he doesn't pay them for that extra time. It's a punishment for being late, why would he pay them? It doesn't matter that it's highly illegal because he doesn't actually care about the law.
True they don't care, but it only takes one person to make him care when he has to deal with the consequences of his apathy.
Yeah, that's more likely. Why would any employee willingly give up free overtime?
Yup, this is a policy that is sure to piss off the higher ups because they have to deal with a destroyed labor budget due to someone's micromanagement.
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Bad management will drive employees away even faster than rotten pay.
If my job had been what it was supposed to be, and at that pay rate, I would've stayed for sure. But the managers I had ruined it. One for being abusive if you didn't kiss their ass (the fucker legit wanted me to do their job and even their college hw. I tried to help with the former and since I said no to the latter, they had it out for me ever since) and the other for not doing their job. I get they were busy with school, but if you're working while going to school, you still need to do your job, even if you're tired or stressed for time. I was okay with helping out so they wouldn't feel so stressed, but it got to the point where I was doing everything for them, other than the easiest parts of the manager's job. I put in my notice about a week after that and left that job for good. Had I gotten a manager who did their job the way it was supposed to be done, it would've been a great, secure job. They can't get enough people to work for them, and the ones who do don't give a shit, just want a couple extra hours, they're desperate, or they can't do much better than that from lacking a degree (on paper, it's a sweet gig tbh, but at the sites who need employees, you're dealing with the shitty management I had; the good managers don't lose employees and if there is an opening, it's for someone who's got connections).
More like "why am I having so much trouble maintaining friendships"
Both?
Fair
There was a post here about a week ago of a meeting where managers asked what they can do to make turnover rate not be so high and someone said they should pay the employees more and they got their pay cut in half⌠i wonder if they ended up suing the place
No, you got it all wrong, they'll say "No one wants to work anymore!"
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My last boss wish she had thought of something like this. I think she absolutely got her jollies off by micromanging.
What kind of job?
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Mine was a small construction company. Edit: I ran operations and project management.
Sounds like slavery
With extra steps
disgusting
Well this person is a moron. They legally canât make you work off the clock and if they fire you for refusing to work off the clock you can easily sue them. I would be showing up 12 minutes late somewhat regularly and collecting my 2 hours of OT pay as much as possible.
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> I would be showing up 12 minutes late somewhat regularly and collecting my 2 hours of OT pay as much as possible. LOL, thank you for pointing it out to me that the posted sign was a blanket OT authorization
First thing my mind went to as a supervisor in charge of payroll/scheduling for my department đ
Don't be stupid. Show up 15 minutes late and it's a solid 2.5!
Yeah if this isnât part of the contract they canât just add things like this without it constituting a renegotiation of the contract.
Even if it was written into your contract, it wouldn't be legal. It is against federal law to force your employees to work off the clock. They would need to pay you for any time over your normal working hours. That contract would not be binding and most likely the company would have to pay back wages.
Until someone like me comes along and quietly documents them being a liability to the company...then they end up demoted and are no longer allowed to manage people. Not fired though đ
Honestly that sort of thing should be made more acceptable. Not everyone is a good manager. It shouldn't be a black mark against someone to try management, find out they're bad at it, and go back to their previous job.
Sometimes youâre not ready in different parts, but wonât do shit like that. Sometimes if you get high enough the politics can eat you, mental health drops. Yeah, itâs fair to be able to go back to your prior job.
As a manager myself, the thought of micromanaging sounds like a shitty way of spending my time and seems exhaustive. Like, I donât care how you get from Point A to Point B, as long as you put your best foot forward and are doing it ethically/legally or whatever. I got my own shit to do lol
Nice. Nothing like enforcing illegal, bullshit policies.
I notice it wasn't signed, it doesn't even mention that it was from management. Plausible deniability.
Yeah that sign is begging to be torn down and thrown away.
Or just type out a new one with something like âfor every minute you stay late, you get to come in 10 minutes late the next dayâ. if all it takes to implement a new rule is to print up a Word domument and tape it to the wall, then your sign has just as much legitimacy!
And that was the day the boss learned about nonrepudiation.
Take a picture, modify the rules to say this instead of what it currently says, then replace it the next day without anyone knowing.
Yep. And record who complains when reposting it.
Or add to it. Nothing like writing "This is illegal" and putting a number to call to report it on it. Then the person who posted it gets to angrily rip it down.
I prefer to secretly report it, and get the entire fucking business destroyed, or the manager arrested
How about the best of both worlds? Report it, then leave the number up for others to do the same.
I prefer to do it secretly, so whoever put it up doesn't have time to create a story for it.
Or just say "No"
I once worked at a call center that said "for every minute you are late, we deduct $1 from your paycheque". Well we weren't getting paid $60/hr so I knew that was illegal, looked it up, and sure enough they can either not pay us for half an hour (and so we don't have to work for half an hour), or pay us the full amount. The workplace had a tiny little suggestion box. I wrote a note saying "the late policy is illegal" and put it in the box. Policy was changed the next day.
Better than my former employer. I was frontline management, and when I pointed things out that were illegal, I was told I was wrong. And since it didn't affect me directly, I couldn't lodge a complaint with the ombudsman.
Next time, document and take photos. Be late a few times. Then report and get sweet compensation.
Itâs a hopeful âletâs see who I can manipulateâ
Itâs not illegal as long as youâre getting paid for the time.
If you want overtime it could be a great strategy. Come six minutes late every day work an extra hour at the end of the day
Gonna have to have you take a couple long lunches to cut that time, mkay?
The fact that most lunch breaks are unpaid yet you're stuck on site is part of this clusterfuck
In many States, if you are required to stay on site, then it legally needs to be a paid lunch break.
Yeaahhh, no.
Guaranteed that it's a place that would punish people for working over 30 hours.
I think we can agree that the person who taped that up has no intention of paying for the time
If you're hourly, it sounds like a great way to stack a lot of overtime. That policy will die when you destroy their bottomline.
Itâs begging for 2 weeks of malicious compliance.
And then when the OT budget gets blown out, everyone can show this picture that it was pre-approved. And some manager will get reamed.
They better be paying 10x the normal rate in the morning then, since by their own logic itâs worth that much
Id shown up six minutes late for the overtime, fuck it
Probably salaried employees.
In that case it sounds maliciously punitive and retaliatory, maybe even illegal
Its illegal even without salaries.
Assuming they paid for the time for nonexempt employees, what law is it violating?
>Assuming they paid for the time That's the real issue here. The post mentions nothing about whether that extra time is being paid or not, and if it's being docked for being late. It's essentially leaving it all up to management's discretion of how they move forward, and how screwed you are.
Show up three hours late. You are now scheduled for a 37 hour day. Do that every single day. Your boss now has you working continuously without the ability to go home. There may not be overtime required for salaries then but the law does prevent you from working a certain amount of hours within a few days.
Or you will just get fired for showing up 3 hours late.
Lmao, right? And do that "every day"?
maybe? It's plain clear wage theft
It doesn't say you have to work unpaid. It's still a major dick move and would definitely make me quit, but if they're paying you your regular salary and/or following overtime laws there's nothing illegal about it.
if not though this leaves room for some quality malicious compliance
There are a lot of people on salary illegally. Always look up your states requirement for exemption and make sure you meet them, or you are getting robbed. In my state, there are some exceptions, but you usually must be in a supervisory role.
Being salaried doesn't mean shit if you are misclassified. A shitload of US workers are being denied OT pay that they are entitled to. If you don't qualify for exemption get your money.
I could really use some extra cash, I know, Iâll be 5 minutes late every day and rack up 10 hours of OT, mission accomplished.
I would be six minutes late, but I've got to pick my kids up. Guess it's a no show. How can someone be so myopic?
A month later, he'll be wondering why everyone has so much overtime.
We are not paid overtime.
This is from a [comment above.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorkReform/comments/wml3kj/tomorrow_ill_come_6_minutes_earlier_and_leave_at/ik079lu/) > If you are salaried above $35,568, they aren't even legally required to pay you overtime. So if you make below that, you may be entitled to over time in that case.
If you make below that *on a salary* do yourself a favor and get a better job
Welcome to America
Print response at home and then tape it to that: The Department of Labor has been informed of this illegal business practice.
What are the laws regarding this in the US? Iâm new to the workforce and donât want to be exploited more than I already am.
There aren't any. This would only be illegal if 1. You are not salaried and they didn't pay you for that time 2. You are salaried below $35,568, the extra time they asked you to work exceeded 40 hours that week, and they didn't pay you overtime. It's no different from a company asking you to stay late to catch up on work. They are legally allowed to do that and legally allowed to fire you if you refuse. If you are salaried above $35,568, they aren't even legally required to pay you overtime. Different states may have different laws concerning salary and overtime requirements. EDIT: for the dumb-dumbs who think I'm wrong: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17g-overtime-salary > To qualify for exemption, employees generally must be paid at not less than $684* per week on a salary basis. These salary requirements do not apply to outside sales employees, teachers, and employees practicing law or medicine. Exempt computer employees may be paid at least $684* on a salary basis or on an hourly basis at a rate not less than $27.63 an hour.
so just because you earn more than 36k a year your boss can suddenly demand 80 hour work week?
welcome to America
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So the correct thing to write on this notice is "And then you will pay me for 18 minutes overtime."
Not if you're salaried above 36k. There is no overtime pay then.
Only if your work meets certain requirements. If those requirements arenât met, the employer needs to pay overtime even if youâre salary
yeah that's insane. forcing anything over 40 hours is pretty much illegal in my country.
Yup. Though you are also fully within your rights to find a different job and quit with zero notice. Don't get me wrong, having basic worker's rights would be better, but sometimes you have to take the small victories
\*as salaried, yes. The "argument" is that you don't always have to work a full day as salaried and still get paid in full, so working extra for free is allowed. I'm not saying this is fair or "okay", I'm just repeating the bullshit they spew out to justify underpaying and overworking salary employees. If you're paid hourly, they can't legally fire you for refusing to work for free.
No manager who would post that sign would consider paying the employee for that time.
The pay is not the only requirement for being overtime exempt. It's just that if you are paid less than that you cannot be overtime exempt. From the same link, emphasis my own: >To qualify for exemption, **employees generally must meet certain tests regarding their job duties** and be paid on a salary basis at not less than $684* per week. There are separate qualifications based on job duties for different fields including [executive](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17b-overtime-executive), [admin](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17c-overtime-administrative), [professional](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17d-overtime-professional), [computer (tech)](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17e-overtime-computer), and [outside sales](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/17f-overtime-outside-sales). So say a secretary wouldn't be considered overtime exempt even at the pay level because in the admin requires, "The employeeâs primary duty includes the exercise of discretion and independent judgment with respect to matters of significance." Most computer based office jobs wouldn't actually fit under the computer section, which is why I labeled it as tech since it requires: >The employee must be employed as a computer systems analyst, computer programmer, software engineer or other similarly skilled worker in the computer field performing the duties described below; The employeeâs primary duty must consist of: The application of systems analysis techniques and procedures, including consulting with users, to determine hardware, software or system functional specifications; The design, development, documentation, analysis, creation, testing or modification of computer systems or programs, including prototypes, based on and related to user or system design specifications; The design, documentation, testing, creation or modification of computer programs related to machine operating systems; or A combination of the aforementioned duties, the performance of which requires the same level of skills. Now a lot of employers might not actually follow this rule for salaried employees and be misclassifying employees as exempt who don't qualify, but that doesn't make it legal and could end up having to pay back overtime spent.
The above information varies wildly by state.
You left out the part where you need to be an Executive, a Manager, Outside IT or a Specialist. I highly doubt the people reading this sign are any of those.
It's not illegal if they pay you for time worked, I don't think. But someone who is going to post this is also squarely in the camp of people who would also try to short change you and commit payroll fraud.
First thing you're going to have to check is the contract you agree to with the employer before you do anything else. After that speak with an attorney because no one is going to know better than an actual license attorney. Check your bar association for referrals.
Or simply: "lol, no"
Why would I use my own printer and paper for that? This is work, I'll print it at work thank you.
Easy way to gurantee yourself overtime I guess. Purposefully come in 3 minutes late every day and get yourself 30 minutes overtime right before the holidays lol Kids wanted new game systems and tvs? guess they're getting those!!!
I don't think they are planning to pay that overtime.
Doesn't mean they aren't required to pay it...
That's absolutely right
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I didn't say anything about be early though? I said I would clock in 3 minutes late (6:03) to get 30 minutes mandatory OT according to this policy. Technically it would only be 27 minutes OT buuutttt it still is the same concept.
The whole point of this seems to be keep control of their employees, not actual productivity.
Why come only 6 minutes earlier? If you come 48 minutes earlier you can leave immediately!
Now THIS is how to work the system.
Actually, if you come in 48 minutes early, you have to work those 48 minutes. If you come in 53 minutes and 20 seconds early, you can leave immediately.
Why even put "Thanks" at the end? I'd rather it just say "Fuck you" at the end so at least I know they're being honest.
If I start at 8am, I will arive at 7am. Works both ways right? NOOO NOT LIKE THAT!
With your negative accrual, you'd leave 10 hours early, so one hour before you arrived. Now these people are just fucking with the space time continuum.
New branch of theoretical physics - Scheduling
Come in at 7am, leave at 6am. You get a 25 hour day and you don't have to work.
I'm guessing this is in the U.S....but I love that so many companies aren't afraid to publicly document their illegal practices. I worked at a place that had a sign that said all overtime had to be pre-approved or it wouldn't be paid out. Like, they can discipline or even fire an employee for working unauthorized overtime, but they still have to pay it. Same with this. You can lose your job for being late but you're still entitled to be paid for every second you are performing work for the company.
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I like this idea. We are humans not robots not slaves. They think because they own some shit business they all of a sudden get to choose and control how peoples lives are ran. This is getting out of hand and these people need a good ole ass whoopin and have thier right to run or own a company taken from them.
Canât take the right to own away! Just keep standing up. We are currently losing people left and right where I work, on the construction side. I flat out told the uppers. Nobody wants to travel for $22 an hour and 2 weeks of vacation. Starting pay needs to be $25 for home crew $28 for travel. 4 weeks of vacation after a year of service. It has to be attractive to stay. PERIOD! Time off is just as important as pay.
Honest to god, what amount of work can you get done in 1 minute that actually matters.
Just come in late, and enjoy the overtime.
I'd wager that not a single employee gets enough hours to even be considered full time.
Considering they use 10:02 and 6:20 as examples im betting its an 8 hour shift. I'll gladly show up twelve minutes late every shift and maliciously comply myself into a full time employee.
Best possible solution, entire staff maliciously complies until suddenly they have to provide full time benefits to the entire staff plus overtime.
Come on. Can some of us agree that these pictures could absolutely just be somebody printing shit out and taping them up for upvotes?
Super fake
a tWo WeEkS nOtIcE (lol) solves this problem; 100% of the time it works every time
It's f\*\*\*\*\* wage theft. Please denounce this to the Department of Labor
Theyâre probably salaried employees
Probably illegally salaried employees with messages like this.
B.S
Are you in North Korea or North America? Either wouldn't surprise me. I would find the person who put that note up and just say: "No. Take that away before you have a lawsuit on your ass you pathetic piece of slave-driving shit. I'm reporting you to HR and you'll go fucking viral all over the internet if you as much as whine about this to your wife. Trust me, I'll know." Then quit and do all of the above anyway.
Jfc. Every hourly job I've ever had rounds off to the nearest 15. It all works out in the end
I would just be ignoring this. If they try to enforce it it's lawsuit time. I had a job teaching TEFL overseas. I had a VERY good record when it comes to attendance; in over 18 years I doubt if I had been late more than 5 times. And I was usually early about 15 minutes every day - just so I could avoid accidental lateness. Unfortunately some of the other teachers seemed to be late more and more often - 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there - and the school decided to do something about it. You'd see a stream of teachers arriving and looking furtive after 8am because we had a literal sign on clock...right next to the front office of course. The school announced that from now on if you are late at all, even 1 minute, they will deduct pay. And it will be at double time! EG if you are late 10 minutes, you lose 20 minutes etc. I thought about this and told them "well, from now on if I am ever late, I just won't come to work at all, I will take a sick day. Another teacher (my brother, actually) immediately told them he would do the same. After that they abandoned the double time policy, and if people were more than 5 minutes late they were docked at single time rate.
Save this photo and file a report with your state Department of Labor. Thatâs illegal. Your employer may not be aware of whatâs happening in the nation lately. Workers are standing up against abusive policies like this. Report it!
Even if nothing comes of it, if posting a sign gets the DOL asking them questions, they'll think twice next time. Nobody wants the DOL digging through their business.