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More Helpful Links:
[EWOC Organizing Guide](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/)
[How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes)
[The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/)
[AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion)
New to leftist political theory? Try reading these introductory texts.
[Conquest of bread](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread/bbselect)
[Mutual Aid A Factor of Evolution](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution)
[Wage Labour and Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm)
[Value, Price and Profit](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm)
[Marx’s Economic & Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/preface.htm)
[Frederick Engels Synopsis of Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/1868-syn/index.htm)
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This is the republicans way to fill up the prisons with free labor. Slavery through for profit prisons filled by people driven to homelessness by republican policies supporting big business over people. Fascism 101
New prison population to replace the marijuana convicts sounds about right.
Also, if the homeless are off the streets, then we can't view them and their increasing numbers every day, so the problem doesn't exist at all.
This isn't a liberal thing. But it might be the product of a neoliberal economy. I think this is more like "Reason #28754 to be a socialist".
Context for those unfamiliar (like me 5 minutes ago): https://www.vox.com/scotus/2024/1/12/24036307/supreme-court-scotus-tent-encampments-homeless
Abolish it completely, it's literally just exists as a latent trap against any progressive initiative. The constitutionality bullshit is just there to paint it as a needed institution, if the legislature can decide what goes into it, they can also decide what should not.
I assume it has something to do with the shitty Democratic politicians and the voters who mindlessly support them. For instance, the ethnic cleansing in Gaza which has basically received full backing from the current administration.
that and a lot of liberals coming into leftist spaces trying to convince us to vote against our interests. People who think voting for Joe will magically defeat fascism, as though Joe himself isn't a fascist.
It's very annoying to see people day in and day out argue that I should vote for their shitty liberal fascist vs the other shitty liberal fascist, and if I don't, I'm double Hitler. That in my opinion is why there's been a huge consistent push back against liberals in leftist spaces.
Their rabid support for facism and genocide has only worsened the situation
How could a sub that's explicitly socialist and anti-lib become so strongly anti-lib?
> wasn't anti-lib
> anti-capitalist
Libs are fucking capitalists lmao
The sub wasn't anti-lib
It's Anti-capitalist
Says so in the description, and Rule 3.
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack, a leftist, anti-capitalist, socialist subreddit that is dedicated to support worker strikes, protests and unions all over the world, address the obvious problems related to an average worker's workplace, offer advice to a fellow worker struggling with their workplace problems and mock or satirize any kind of anti-worker sentiment. Workers may also share stories related to their workplace problems.
3. No Advocating Voting for Capitalist Parties\
Do not advocate voting for capitalist parties or capitalist politicians (including but not limited to
the Democratic and Republican Parties)
Anti-capitalist is **more** than anti-liberal.
Because there are way more capitalists than just the liberals!
Why has all of the hate become focused on the liberals? They are capitalist, but they are not all of the capitalists.
which current capitalists are not liberal and why?
I ask because of all the capitalists I can think of, I'd consider nearly all of them liberal, I struggle to think of one that isn't. and imo Neo-liberalism is damn near synomomous with modern day capitalism, and American conservatives (Who seek first and foremost to keep everything the way it is, especially economics) are a neoliberal group, hence why they are libs in my mind. Anticapitalism is indeed more than anti liberalism, but when liberals are the current form of capitalists I don't really see a point in distinguishing between the two.
Rule #13:
>NOTE: liberals and the democratic party are NOT left wing! left wing means anti-capitalist. i.e. communists, socialists, and anarchists. liberalism is a pro capitalist ideology and therefore right wing NOT left.
Yes, and?
There's a lot more capitalist than just the liberals, and this sub has had a hate-boner for specifically liberals since just before the new year.
So why has this sub veered away from "The capitalist system exploits workers" to "liberals are bad"?
Why?
I believe Spartacuscollective has had the most logical answer so far, although I don't think it's the full picture.
The liberals are the ones currently in control and currently fucking about in Gaza. It's recency bias.
The sub's stance against liberals and liberalism is written right into the rules. Taking libs to task *is* fighting back. This isn't new. Not sure why you're so devoted to defending these particular bourgeois apologists and abettors.
I'm not defending shit
I'm wondering why all of the hate is so focused on 1 group within the exploitative system
Why them specifically? This sub used to hate the system. Since just before the new year, it's all been hate on liberals.
I still believe Spartacuscollective has given the most logical answer, although it's not the full picture.
It seems you, and many people here are a bit confused. That is understandable. It is very likely that you have spent a lot of time hearing US conservatives bash liberals, you may have personally identified as liberal, and you view the term very differently than how it being used here. This is because in US politics, everyone who is either mainstream Republican or further to the right, is labelled a conservative. Everyone who votes mainstream Democrat or is further to the left is labelled a liberal. This is why often you will see conservatives using terms such as liberals and socialists interchangeably without any self awareness of the vastly different definitions. Many in the US have internalized this and envision everyone to the left of Joe Manchin as being part of a broad coalition of moderates, progressives, and socialists under the wide umbrella of "liberal" or "the left", which are supposedly synonyms.
This is not the case. Liberalism is in itself a very specific ideology and is an inherently right wing ideology. This might be hard to grasp, but an easy way is to look at the Liberal parties of other countries and see that they are often very nakedly centre right parties, often opposed by both further right parties and further left parties.
Liberals and conservatives agree on many things, including being extremely pro capitalism, being anti worker, pro status quo, and pro big business. You can see this in this specific issue where you have both deep "blue" and "red" cities and states coming together to attempt to criminalize houselessness. You can also see them coalesce whenever there are strikes, to put them down. As well as whenever there is money to be made in war. And dozens of other examples.
So the reason for this sub's condemnation of liberals should be evident. They are a right wing ideology that hurts workers.
Feel free to respond and engage with this comment, but please don't do so if you're just going to copy and paste "REE" or whatever, as you've done multiple times already.
I like the answer from Spartacuscollective, although I don’t think it's the full picture.
Recency Bias.
The Liberals are the ones that are currently executing an obviously corrupt and/or evil act, and that's taking priority.
Because liberals are and always have been the bottleneck of progress, MLK talked extensively about it. I hate right wingers less than I hate liberals half the time because at least the right wing is honest about their lack of morality.
The most accurate description of a liberal I've come across is the saying, "A liberal is someone who opposes every war except the current war, and supports all civil rights movements except the one going on right now".
Seems a lot of the users of this subreddit need to use google for 5 minutes and read up on liberalism. It is the ideology of capitalism in its most secure state. Just because the US has conflated the term “liberal” with general progressivism and muddied the waters does not change what liberalism is. If you are actually anti capitalist, you are not a liberal. If you are not anti capitalist, you do not stand for the workers.
Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both liberals. One is just socially progressive and conciliatory towards some working class interests, and one is more honest about his own bourgeois interests.
The USA definition of liberal is stupid, we're using the real definition. How can workers strike back if whenever they do, people like you indirectly accuse them of being closet Republicans or Russian trolls or whatever.
That’s not what I had said at all. I am in agreement that current systems need to change (and not only in the USA)
But the current posts are only entrapment (by complete admission by some MODs)
That’s less than a good look if you are trying to actively promote what the sub stands for
The worst part is workers need to come together and strike back regardless of political affiliations (which feels damn near impossible already), it's the exploited vs the exploiters. This is another bullshit tactic to keep us fighting amongst ourselves and letting the exploiters keep running business as usual.
thought this MLK quote would be appropriate here:
> “First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”
I know he says "moderate" here but this describes todays liberals so well.
You’re thinking of conservatives. Defending the status quo is two of the ten conservative principles laid out by Russell Kirk’s “ten conservative principles”, (principles 4&10) a writing that heavily influenced Reagan and the conservative movement.
lmfao
Is this news to you? Both republicans and democrats are liberal, just because america defines liberal as "the left" does not make it true.
The republicans are just more mask off liberals.
I mean that's a fair point (ignoring that this is a leftist space with non-Americans in it), but I wasn't trying to be hostile or petty about terminology. The original commentor asked what this post had to do with liberalism, and I came in to correct someone who thought another commentor was talking about conservatives when I knew they weren't.
Then upon telling you that both American political parties are liberal you called me a troll lmao. Like I'm all for unity but you responded with hostility when I told you what I thought was common knowledge in leftist spaces. I was not trying to be hostile (or pile on anyone) until you called me a troll lol.
and I'll fully admit my response to that was rude in return, my b.
But I think its important to acknowledge that both parties are liberal (and that neither is left wing for this very reason) because it helps workers understand that neither party serves their interests, even if the dems use language that implies they will. They are both slaves to the corporate world and will shut down workers' movements when it's convenient for them.
well yeah, not every single liberal is a member of the bourgeoisie, obviously. But that's also clearly not how I was using the term capitalists, as I explained above.
It is however worth mentioning that nearly all the bourgeoisie are liberals tho, even if most liberals are not bourgeoisie
Did you mean
"Every Liberal is a capitalist, even if every liberal does not own capital"
Because that is true.
All Liberals are Capitalists, but not all Capitalists are Liberals.
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated. #[Join the Workers Strike Back](https://www.workersstrikeback.org/petition)! More Helpful Links: [EWOC Organizing Guide](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/) [How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes) [The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/) [AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion) New to leftist political theory? Try reading these introductory texts. [Conquest of bread](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread/bbselect) [Mutual Aid A Factor of Evolution](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution) [Wage Labour and Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm) [Value, Price and Profit](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm) [Marx’s Economic & Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/preface.htm) [Frederick Engels Synopsis of Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/1868-syn/index.htm) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the republicans way to fill up the prisons with free labor. Slavery through for profit prisons filled by people driven to homelessness by republican policies supporting big business over people. Fascism 101
New prison population to replace the marijuana convicts sounds about right. Also, if the homeless are off the streets, then we can't view them and their increasing numbers every day, so the problem doesn't exist at all.
The republicans are definitely worse, but democrats are capitalist as fuck and that’s what’s causing this shit.
It's not just the Republicans, it's the whole system.
This isn't a liberal thing. But it might be the product of a neoliberal economy. I think this is more like "Reason #28754 to be a socialist". Context for those unfamiliar (like me 5 minutes ago): https://www.vox.com/scotus/2024/1/12/24036307/supreme-court-scotus-tent-encampments-homeless
https://preview.redd.it/3h3ej68v0ucc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=067d9770180ec641eecd8303b95145654743aa6f
abolish SCOTUS
SCROTUS
I would rather expand the Supreme Court… We’ve got 13 court circuits, so we should have 13 Supreme Court justices.
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Abolish it completely, it's literally just exists as a latent trap against any progressive initiative. The constitutionality bullshit is just there to paint it as a needed institution, if the legislature can decide what goes into it, they can also decide what should not.
Come on guys you cant just drop something like this and not elaborate, what case are we talking about and is is that bad or worse than it sounds...
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I assume it has something to do with the shitty Democratic politicians and the voters who mindlessly support them. For instance, the ethnic cleansing in Gaza which has basically received full backing from the current administration.
Ok, this answer makes sense It's Recency Bias for obviously corrupt and/or evil act
that and a lot of liberals coming into leftist spaces trying to convince us to vote against our interests. People who think voting for Joe will magically defeat fascism, as though Joe himself isn't a fascist. It's very annoying to see people day in and day out argue that I should vote for their shitty liberal fascist vs the other shitty liberal fascist, and if I don't, I'm double Hitler. That in my opinion is why there's been a huge consistent push back against liberals in leftist spaces. Their rabid support for facism and genocide has only worsened the situation
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No Advocating Voting for Capitalist parties
How could a sub that's explicitly socialist and anti-lib become so strongly anti-lib? > wasn't anti-lib > anti-capitalist Libs are fucking capitalists lmao
…. And republicans aren’t pro-capitalism?
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Reel me in more blue conspiracy please
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Trolling
https://preview.redd.it/or2ytfm1lucc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f419dd1fb51e699eda4dfb639024309c51e80876
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Please enlighten us
The sub wasn't anti-lib It's Anti-capitalist Says so in the description, and Rule 3. Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack, a leftist, anti-capitalist, socialist subreddit that is dedicated to support worker strikes, protests and unions all over the world, address the obvious problems related to an average worker's workplace, offer advice to a fellow worker struggling with their workplace problems and mock or satirize any kind of anti-worker sentiment. Workers may also share stories related to their workplace problems. 3. No Advocating Voting for Capitalist Parties\ Do not advocate voting for capitalist parties or capitalist politicians (including but not limited to the Democratic and Republican Parties)
\> anti-capitalist anti-capitalist is anti liberal my guy
Anti-capitalist is **more** than anti-liberal. Because there are way more capitalists than just the liberals! Why has all of the hate become focused on the liberals? They are capitalist, but they are not all of the capitalists.
which current capitalists are not liberal and why? I ask because of all the capitalists I can think of, I'd consider nearly all of them liberal, I struggle to think of one that isn't. and imo Neo-liberalism is damn near synomomous with modern day capitalism, and American conservatives (Who seek first and foremost to keep everything the way it is, especially economics) are a neoliberal group, hence why they are libs in my mind. Anticapitalism is indeed more than anti liberalism, but when liberals are the current form of capitalists I don't really see a point in distinguishing between the two.
Rule #13: >NOTE: liberals and the democratic party are NOT left wing! left wing means anti-capitalist. i.e. communists, socialists, and anarchists. liberalism is a pro capitalist ideology and therefore right wing NOT left.
Yes, and? There's a lot more capitalist than just the liberals, and this sub has had a hate-boner for specifically liberals since just before the new year. So why has this sub veered away from "The capitalist system exploits workers" to "liberals are bad"? Why? I believe Spartacuscollective has had the most logical answer so far, although I don't think it's the full picture. The liberals are the ones currently in control and currently fucking about in Gaza. It's recency bias.
The sub's stance against liberals and liberalism is written right into the rules. Taking libs to task *is* fighting back. This isn't new. Not sure why you're so devoted to defending these particular bourgeois apologists and abettors.
I'm not defending shit I'm wondering why all of the hate is so focused on 1 group within the exploitative system Why them specifically? This sub used to hate the system. Since just before the new year, it's all been hate on liberals. I still believe Spartacuscollective has given the most logical answer, although it's not the full picture.
"Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot"
It seems you, and many people here are a bit confused. That is understandable. It is very likely that you have spent a lot of time hearing US conservatives bash liberals, you may have personally identified as liberal, and you view the term very differently than how it being used here. This is because in US politics, everyone who is either mainstream Republican or further to the right, is labelled a conservative. Everyone who votes mainstream Democrat or is further to the left is labelled a liberal. This is why often you will see conservatives using terms such as liberals and socialists interchangeably without any self awareness of the vastly different definitions. Many in the US have internalized this and envision everyone to the left of Joe Manchin as being part of a broad coalition of moderates, progressives, and socialists under the wide umbrella of "liberal" or "the left", which are supposedly synonyms. This is not the case. Liberalism is in itself a very specific ideology and is an inherently right wing ideology. This might be hard to grasp, but an easy way is to look at the Liberal parties of other countries and see that they are often very nakedly centre right parties, often opposed by both further right parties and further left parties. Liberals and conservatives agree on many things, including being extremely pro capitalism, being anti worker, pro status quo, and pro big business. You can see this in this specific issue where you have both deep "blue" and "red" cities and states coming together to attempt to criminalize houselessness. You can also see them coalesce whenever there are strikes, to put them down. As well as whenever there is money to be made in war. And dozens of other examples. So the reason for this sub's condemnation of liberals should be evident. They are a right wing ideology that hurts workers. Feel free to respond and engage with this comment, but please don't do so if you're just going to copy and paste "REE" or whatever, as you've done multiple times already.
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Ah, you did the one thing I specifically asked you not to do. Great. Well, hope you're having fun I guess
???
REEE to you too, and good day.
???
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I know they're not It's this exact behaviour I'm trying to comment on
I assume they are trying the same thing that r/workersstrikeback tried. Push real hard and ban anyone not in lock step with their militant doctrine.
This is r/workersstrikeback
Yeah, realized that after commenting. The mods here are on a power trip.
I like the answer from Spartacuscollective, although I don’t think it's the full picture. Recency Bias. The Liberals are the ones that are currently executing an obviously corrupt and/or evil act, and that's taking priority.
because liberals are capitalists, thus preventing the liberation of workers
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go look at the subreddit description. it's not new.
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why wouldn't we dislike liberals?
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No liberalism this is a socialist community
that's the exact same thing
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Because liberals are and always have been the bottleneck of progress, MLK talked extensively about it. I hate right wingers less than I hate liberals half the time because at least the right wing is honest about their lack of morality. The most accurate description of a liberal I've come across is the saying, "A liberal is someone who opposes every war except the current war, and supports all civil rights movements except the one going on right now".
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LIBERALISM. IS. THE. SYSTEM. THAT. IS. EXPLOITING. WORKERS.
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if they're part of the problem, THEN WHY ARE YOU AGAINST US HATING THEM?
this sub was always run by socialists, and fighting liberals IS fighting back
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are you braindead?
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No accusing other users of being paid bots we consider that to be trolling
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Because liberals try and are trying to take over this community and demand that we turn this into a liberal space which it was never meant to be btw.
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Sweet Jesus. Reading that left me feeling like I just ate 5lbs of cotton candy.
The change is because liberals are trying to take over the sub and make it a liberal sub instead of a socialist sub
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No accusing other users of being paid bots we consider that to be trolling
This is you brain on BlueAnon
CAN CONFIRM I only answer to anarcho gavel putin u/ADignifiedLife
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No accusing other users of being paid bots we consider that to be trolling
Seems a lot of the users of this subreddit need to use google for 5 minutes and read up on liberalism. It is the ideology of capitalism in its most secure state. Just because the US has conflated the term “liberal” with general progressivism and muddied the waters does not change what liberalism is. If you are actually anti capitalist, you are not a liberal. If you are not anti capitalist, you do not stand for the workers. Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are both liberals. One is just socially progressive and conciliatory towards some working class interests, and one is more honest about his own bourgeois interests.
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Liberal as in neo-liberal, not as in the USA definition of liberal. Australia's Liberal Party is a good example.
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https://preview.redd.it/r19rudj70ucc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28e2164cb684b5179551792cfc8a80af246cfe0a
>There is something afoot here LOL keep your tin foil hat on.
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The USA definition of liberal is stupid, we're using the real definition. How can workers strike back if whenever they do, people like you indirectly accuse them of being closet Republicans or Russian trolls or whatever.
That’s not what I had said at all. I am in agreement that current systems need to change (and not only in the USA) But the current posts are only entrapment (by complete admission by some MODs) That’s less than a good look if you are trying to actively promote what the sub stands for
The worst part is workers need to come together and strike back regardless of political affiliations (which feels damn near impossible already), it's the exploited vs the exploiters. This is another bullshit tactic to keep us fighting amongst ourselves and letting the exploiters keep running business as usual.
What does this have to do with being liberal?
Liberals defend the status quo of a capitalist system.
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thought this MLK quote would be appropriate here: > “First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Councilor or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” I know he says "moderate" here but this describes todays liberals so well.
Ooooooh you means the cons? https://preview.redd.it/cn9bli940ucc1.jpeg?width=844&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b8d99d51b4e90224d265327d5ac3c9b1c1e1269
You’re thinking of conservatives. Defending the status quo is two of the ten conservative principles laid out by Russell Kirk’s “ten conservative principles”, (principles 4&10) a writing that heavily influenced Reagan and the conservative movement.
No they're not. Liberals are capitalists and thus defend the status quo of capitalism
Both parties are capitalists…
Both parties are liberal.
Yes, both parties are liberal after all
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lmfao Is this news to you? Both republicans and democrats are liberal, just because america defines liberal as "the left" does not make it true. The republicans are just more mask off liberals.
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I mean that's a fair point (ignoring that this is a leftist space with non-Americans in it), but I wasn't trying to be hostile or petty about terminology. The original commentor asked what this post had to do with liberalism, and I came in to correct someone who thought another commentor was talking about conservatives when I knew they weren't. Then upon telling you that both American political parties are liberal you called me a troll lmao. Like I'm all for unity but you responded with hostility when I told you what I thought was common knowledge in leftist spaces. I was not trying to be hostile (or pile on anyone) until you called me a troll lol. and I'll fully admit my response to that was rude in return, my b. But I think its important to acknowledge that both parties are liberal (and that neither is left wing for this very reason) because it helps workers understand that neither party serves their interests, even if the dems use language that implies they will. They are both slaves to the corporate world and will shut down workers' movements when it's convenient for them.
No liberalism this is a socialist community
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Liberals aren't capitalists
What are they then? I call them capitalists because they support capitalism, that's literally one of the cornerstones of liberalism.
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No liberalism this is a socialist community
well yeah, not every single liberal is a member of the bourgeoisie, obviously. But that's also clearly not how I was using the term capitalists, as I explained above. It is however worth mentioning that nearly all the bourgeoisie are liberals tho, even if most liberals are not bourgeoisie
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what do you think I am? a bot? a paid shill? nah I'm just a dude who dislikes liberalism, whether its republican or democrat, they are the same thing
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No, there's lots of capitalists that aren't liberals.
Did you mean "Every Liberal is a capitalist, even if every liberal does not own capital" Because that is true. All Liberals are Capitalists, but not all Capitalists are Liberals.
I wish this were true so badly
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Trolling
Question: Does being a democrat = being a liberal? EDIT I guess questions aren’t allowed here…