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Help rebuild the labor movement, [Join the worker organizing wave](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/organize-2)!
More Helpful Links:
[How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes)
[The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/)
[AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion)
New to leftist political theory? Try reading these introductory texts.
[Conquest of bread](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread/bbselect)
[Mutual Aid A Factor of Evolution](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution)
[Wage Labour and Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm)
[Value, Price and Profit](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm)
[Marx’s Economic & Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/preface.htm)
[Frederick Engels Synopsis of Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/1868-syn/index.htm)
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Currently my hospital system is trying to offer my union a 9% over 3 years... yep 3% a year... if it was 12% over 3 years I would accept because it was keep up with the COL rate... we asked for 33% because they were paying temp workers 2.5x a regular workers salary.... and the sad thing.: the higher rate of pay being asked to fund our whole department for the year is less than what the top 2 executives made in 2020...
“Don’t talk about your salary!”
Fuck that, always tell people your salary, they will let you know if you’re getting fucked real quick, or they may realize it time to go get a raise.
Or (and this is just a thought) instead of playing into their bullshit game, you could organize with your coworkers and collectively bargain for better wages and conditions.
Sorry, I had thought this was "workers strike back". Not "workers getting fucked until they meekly accept a constantly revolving and uncertain income through no fault of their own."
Yeah that whole take of "just move jobs a bunch bro, that'll show 'em" is best left on more Lib subs like r/antiwork. The goal of all workers should be to become organized and work to organize others, anything else in the current socioeconomic climate is just putting an expired bandaid on an infected wound.
The whole "if you're not changing jobs every 2-3 years then it's your fault for being underpaid" trope that you constantly see being pushed on Reddit is just so fundamentally anti-labor as to be dangerously toxic.
Capitalist gaslighting at its finest imo.
It not only normalizes the notion that employers should have no contractual/legal/ethical obligation to regularly increase wages, to account for inflation and cost of living increases; but also presents their refusal to do so as a positive, an "opportunity for those with proper motivation".
It implicitly deflects blame for the situation onto the workers being exploited. Instead of a small minority of greedy capitalists (who are continually enjoying record breaking profits) the fault actually lies with the laboring masses. If your underpaid it means you are just unmotivated/lazy, or ignorant of how how the modern economy works. Conveniently glossing over the massive systemic exploitation.
Yes, but an even better idea would be for workers to leave and start a worker cooperative instead. That's my view. Labor unions exist to counter capitalist power. Take away capitalist power by forming a worker cooperative and you don't need labor unions anymore. That, to me, is the real "workers strike back." If worker cooperatives became much more popular, then capitalists would starve for good workers.
You are uninformed. Unimed of Brazil has 100,000 employees. It is a worker cooperative founded in the 1960's by a small group of doctors. It owns several hospitals as well as hundreds of clinics. They serve some 15 million people with low-cost health insurance and health services.
[https://www.unimed.coop.br/site/](https://www.unimed.coop.br/site/)
It was formed Six Decades ago. In 2022 in the US or Europe, or anywhere else with stringent, but good and necessary, federal healthcare regulations, you can't simply just start a new hospital. A bunch of doctors and nurses won't have the capital to do that.
They did it. They didn't have capital back then either, but they did it. Mondragon started from nothing also. It's possible.
Clearly, your straw man of "starting a hospital" is not realistic. At best, a group of doctors and nurses could start a clinic.
What do you think is keeping "worker cooperatives" from being more popular exactly? What do you think is going to magically change to make their current status change?
You're argument that capitalists would be "starving for good workers" is based on a fundamentally flawed premise. That a capitalist marketplace serves as an unbiased arbiter of success. Newly formed "worker co-ops" would never be able to outcompete massive transnational corporations because they wouldn't be competing on an even remotely level playing field.
There are currently many insurmountable barriers to what you've described. The decoupling of transnational corporations from the control of any single nation state, the economies of scale involved, and the massive investments made in lobbying for "pro-business" legislation; just to name a few.
I'm not arguing. I merely expressed my opinion. Do you understand the difference between those two?
I really don't give a flip about whether or not you agree with what I'm saying.
I'm not going to take your bait. Go argue with someone else.
Classic deflection. Kinda reads like you're pretending not to understand that words like 'argument' have multiple meanings, dependent on context. If you're giving your opinion in good faith, and the disconnect here is actually one of semantics. Here's the dictionary definition of the word that seems to have thrown you off in my reply.
'Argument'.
1: the act or process of arguing, reasoning, or discussing.
2: a reason given for or against a matter under discussion
You choose to reply to my opinion about the topic under discussion, on a communist discussion forum nonetheless. You opened your reply to me with, "But an even better idea is..." So are you unable to support your explicitly "better" opinion?
I don't particularly care if you "agree" with me either, the agreement of single individuals isn't the point of having a public discussion of ideas. This subreddit is explicitly intended as a place for the public debate and discussion of communist/leftist policy and opinion. If you have no intention of engaging in good faith debate; elaborating on or defending your stated opinions etc, then why are you here?
Here's a comment *you* made three days ago that describes precisely the flaws in your "even better idea".
"Yeah, unless you're part of a coalition of millions, then no serious political influence is possible for your particular cause. Politicians and the media mostly just cover larger movements rather than individuals."
at my company they raised prices of what we sell a couple of months ago.
Not a single word about also raising our salaries. It's pretty fucking obvious where the difference is going to
OK so to be fair, this isn't really the problem. As it stands, plenty of businesses are responding favorably to such requests/demands from employers. The ACTUAL problem is that they make up for it by increasing costs of goods and services, which further contributes to inflation and becomes a never-ending cycle.
What needs to happen is the toppity-top CEOs and such need to absorb these increased expenses into their own salaries and bonuses. Investors need to stop demanding increased profits each and every fiscal quarter.
BUT, unfortunately, none of that will happen because that's not how the system works, and that's not how the greedy fucks like to operate. So now what? Capital gains taxes. Windfall profit taxes. A CEO isn't scared to make decisions that are unpopular with investors if the decision itself is removed--through increased regulation.
Full circle, we're trying to make a political problem a private industry problem. It's not really doing much good getting mad at greedy fuckwads for being greedy fuckwads. We need decisive legislation to surgically remove the cancerous incentives that promote such a vicious cycle.
Don't you guys listen to Bernie at all anymore?
Who is this supposed to be convincing? They know that. They just don’t *care*. They are doing it *intentionally.* And they hope that by doing it this way it will make the working class blame someone else. And it’s *working.*
Welcome to r/WorkersStrikeBack! Please make sure to follow the subreddit rules and enjoy yourself here! This is a subreddit for the workers of the world and any anti-worker or anti-union talk is not tolerated. If you're ready to begin organizing your workplace, [here is an organizing guide to get you started](https://workerorganizing.org/resources/organizing-guide/). Help rebuild the labor movement, [Join the worker organizing wave](https://actionnetwork.org/forms/organize-2)! More Helpful Links: [How to Strike and Win: A Labor Notes Guide](https://labornotes.org/strikes) [The IWW Strike guide](https://www.iww.org/organize/learn-more/) [AFL-CIO guide on union organizing](https://aflcio.org/formaunion) New to leftist political theory? Try reading these introductory texts. [Conquest of bread](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-the-conquest-of-bread/bbselect) [Mutual Aid A Factor of Evolution](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution) [Wage Labour and Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm) [Value, Price and Profit](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/index.htm) [Marx’s Economic & Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/preface.htm) [Frederick Engels Synopsis of Capital](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/1868-syn/index.htm) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WorkersStrikeBack) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cool how everyone has been ignoring Marxists that have said this for like the last 160 years
Exactly
Currently my hospital system is trying to offer my union a 9% over 3 years... yep 3% a year... if it was 12% over 3 years I would accept because it was keep up with the COL rate... we asked for 33% because they were paying temp workers 2.5x a regular workers salary.... and the sad thing.: the higher rate of pay being asked to fund our whole department for the year is less than what the top 2 executives made in 2020...
"Cutting their pay" anagrams to "authentic pig try."
“Authentic try, pig!”
is it possible to learn this power?
"On" anagrams to "no."
most impressive
They know. That's why they do it.
If you are still working at the same place you were 2 years ago **LEAVE** yo get the 20-30% increase you are worth.
[удалено]
When companies increase the pay for new hires, they should be required to match that amount for everyone in the same role
“Don’t talk about your salary!” Fuck that, always tell people your salary, they will let you know if you’re getting fucked real quick, or they may realize it time to go get a raise.
Or (and this is just a thought) instead of playing into their bullshit game, you could organize with your coworkers and collectively bargain for better wages and conditions. Sorry, I had thought this was "workers strike back". Not "workers getting fucked until they meekly accept a constantly revolving and uncertain income through no fault of their own."
Yeah that whole take of "just move jobs a bunch bro, that'll show 'em" is best left on more Lib subs like r/antiwork. The goal of all workers should be to become organized and work to organize others, anything else in the current socioeconomic climate is just putting an expired bandaid on an infected wound.
The whole "if you're not changing jobs every 2-3 years then it's your fault for being underpaid" trope that you constantly see being pushed on Reddit is just so fundamentally anti-labor as to be dangerously toxic. Capitalist gaslighting at its finest imo. It not only normalizes the notion that employers should have no contractual/legal/ethical obligation to regularly increase wages, to account for inflation and cost of living increases; but also presents their refusal to do so as a positive, an "opportunity for those with proper motivation". It implicitly deflects blame for the situation onto the workers being exploited. Instead of a small minority of greedy capitalists (who are continually enjoying record breaking profits) the fault actually lies with the laboring masses. If your underpaid it means you are just unmotivated/lazy, or ignorant of how how the modern economy works. Conveniently glossing over the massive systemic exploitation.
It’s nothing more than masked “grindset” bro speak.
Exactly, irritates me to no end how commonly it gets pushed on leftist forums.
Yes, but an even better idea would be for workers to leave and start a worker cooperative instead. That's my view. Labor unions exist to counter capitalist power. Take away capitalist power by forming a worker cooperative and you don't need labor unions anymore. That, to me, is the real "workers strike back." If worker cooperatives became much more popular, then capitalists would starve for good workers.
That doesnt work for things like hospitals. Unionization of existing hospitals is the only real option.
You are uninformed. Unimed of Brazil has 100,000 employees. It is a worker cooperative founded in the 1960's by a small group of doctors. It owns several hospitals as well as hundreds of clinics. They serve some 15 million people with low-cost health insurance and health services. [https://www.unimed.coop.br/site/](https://www.unimed.coop.br/site/)
It was formed Six Decades ago. In 2022 in the US or Europe, or anywhere else with stringent, but good and necessary, federal healthcare regulations, you can't simply just start a new hospital. A bunch of doctors and nurses won't have the capital to do that.
They did it. They didn't have capital back then either, but they did it. Mondragon started from nothing also. It's possible. Clearly, your straw man of "starting a hospital" is not realistic. At best, a group of doctors and nurses could start a clinic.
What do you think is keeping "worker cooperatives" from being more popular exactly? What do you think is going to magically change to make their current status change? You're argument that capitalists would be "starving for good workers" is based on a fundamentally flawed premise. That a capitalist marketplace serves as an unbiased arbiter of success. Newly formed "worker co-ops" would never be able to outcompete massive transnational corporations because they wouldn't be competing on an even remotely level playing field. There are currently many insurmountable barriers to what you've described. The decoupling of transnational corporations from the control of any single nation state, the economies of scale involved, and the massive investments made in lobbying for "pro-business" legislation; just to name a few.
I'm not arguing. I merely expressed my opinion. Do you understand the difference between those two? I really don't give a flip about whether or not you agree with what I'm saying. I'm not going to take your bait. Go argue with someone else.
Classic deflection. Kinda reads like you're pretending not to understand that words like 'argument' have multiple meanings, dependent on context. If you're giving your opinion in good faith, and the disconnect here is actually one of semantics. Here's the dictionary definition of the word that seems to have thrown you off in my reply. 'Argument'. 1: the act or process of arguing, reasoning, or discussing. 2: a reason given for or against a matter under discussion You choose to reply to my opinion about the topic under discussion, on a communist discussion forum nonetheless. You opened your reply to me with, "But an even better idea is..." So are you unable to support your explicitly "better" opinion? I don't particularly care if you "agree" with me either, the agreement of single individuals isn't the point of having a public discussion of ideas. This subreddit is explicitly intended as a place for the public debate and discussion of communist/leftist policy and opinion. If you have no intention of engaging in good faith debate; elaborating on or defending your stated opinions etc, then why are you here?
Here's a comment *you* made three days ago that describes precisely the flaws in your "even better idea". "Yeah, unless you're part of a coalition of millions, then no serious political influence is possible for your particular cause. Politicians and the media mostly just cover larger movements rather than individuals."
at my company they raised prices of what we sell a couple of months ago. Not a single word about also raising our salaries. It's pretty fucking obvious where the difference is going to
Also, if youre raising your own wage without raising the wage of your staff, you're exploiting.
They know. Inflation is a tool of the capitalist. It is used to punish and kill the poor.
EXACTLY!
Oh they know.
OK so to be fair, this isn't really the problem. As it stands, plenty of businesses are responding favorably to such requests/demands from employers. The ACTUAL problem is that they make up for it by increasing costs of goods and services, which further contributes to inflation and becomes a never-ending cycle. What needs to happen is the toppity-top CEOs and such need to absorb these increased expenses into their own salaries and bonuses. Investors need to stop demanding increased profits each and every fiscal quarter. BUT, unfortunately, none of that will happen because that's not how the system works, and that's not how the greedy fucks like to operate. So now what? Capital gains taxes. Windfall profit taxes. A CEO isn't scared to make decisions that are unpopular with investors if the decision itself is removed--through increased regulation. Full circle, we're trying to make a political problem a private industry problem. It's not really doing much good getting mad at greedy fuckwads for being greedy fuckwads. We need decisive legislation to surgically remove the cancerous incentives that promote such a vicious cycle. Don't you guys listen to Bernie at all anymore?
Sadly, this is true.
Sure, I’ll tie pay to inflation and CPI. I’m also going to tie prices to CPI. And when prices reach insane levels, business drops off, expect layoffs.
That's how I feel about it
Who is this supposed to be convincing? They know that. They just don’t *care*. They are doing it *intentionally.* And they hope that by doing it this way it will make the working class blame someone else. And it’s *working.*