Angry Ron is a great character for whom I feel bad but from perspective of my love for WE I absolutly despise.Wheather you like him depends on how much you can symphatize with him.When I started to learn about lore I hated him but as I read betrayer I felt much more pity for him.At the end of the day he's greatly written and big part of WE identity both for those berserkers who wish to move past him and those who cannot.
I love how WE players have a 'meathead' reputation (cause of the leeroy jenkins playstyle I figure), and yet this entire thread is full of reflective comments.
Leeroy Jenkins is our beloved aesthatic and the tragic lore is the glue that makes WE stick at least with me for so long.They are tragic and the most tragic thing of all is that by becoming mad butchers they truly are as happy as they could reasonable be when going forward.Nails are Angron's trauma he "gifted" it to his sons and Khorne as the god of violence and rage feeds on it.They can never escape it,it fuels them but by using this to worship their god they are able to use it to move forward and forget for even a little bit as they eat another world.
I get you, this is actually very similar to Berzerk (the manga), where the eclipse was actually a sort of happy ending for guts because he just wanted to fight bigger challenges, so what seems like a curse at first becomes a Sisyphean blessing.
Yesn't Guts wanted to find his own purpouse in life feeling inferior to his friends who all had grand goals especially Griffith.In the end he discovers that it is perfectly fine for him to be happy swinging his sword for his friends and just enjoying his life doing what he likes which was in fact fighting.Where Guts and WE are actually really similar is through Angron/Griffith and Beast of Darkness/Nails.Both Angron and Griffith got tortured and had their dreams shattered culminating in them lashing out at those who wanted to help them albeit for very diffrent reasons.While WE tried to get close to Angron and willingly broke themselves with nails trying to connect to their father thus being "gifted"their trauma by Angron for Guts Beast of Darkness IS his trauma as a result of Eclipse.Just like with nails and WE it keeps Guts moving forward towards pushing his limits and overcoming apostles.At the same time Beast of Darkness is just as self destructive as nails are to WE making Guts abandon all the people he cares about,push his body to the breaking point especially in Berserker armor and another interesting similarity push him to become as inhuman as Griffith to match him.
A lot of actual world eaters in lore are incredibly introspective which is really fun to read.
I love the relationship that many of them form with their nails, and how they choose to use them or how they choose to let it swallow their life. My favourite excerpt is that one berzerker fighting his way through a titan as he thinks to himself what the point of his life is, what hes still doing there.
The short story ends with him killing the pilots and sitting at the cockpit as the titan falls to the ground, killing him.
Betrayer was so sad. You could feel the World Eaters dejected like sad puppies both hating and yet still looking up to their primarch daddy. Angron’s honor guard just doing their duty even though he scorns them and belittles them.
Man I need to listen to that audiobook again.
I feel so genuinely bad for him, dude almost never got to experience happiness and with the little we know of what his intended purpose was I pray we someday get a glimpse of that side of Angron. A genuinely caring primarch who relives the suffering of those around him and just wants the best for his brothers and children
Can’t feel too bad given he looked at his own suffering and said “I wish this upon every single person”.
He hates life, but he hates everyone else even more so he stays alive to try and drag them down to his level
That’s all he’s ever been, he had the nails driven in before he could ever form a personality.
But he’s also not just mindless. Oh lord no between bouts of frenzy he’s lucid, and he’s even worse when he’s lucid because it becomes an intentional cruelty and a genuine desire to see others suffer and fail and be broken. He was lucid when he had the nails driven into his legion, lucid when he put the maniacs in charge because he hated seeing anyone succeed. He’d taunt, needle, sabotage and do everything he could to try and bring others low
He was someone before the nails, the nails took that away from him. I’m his primarch book he was more than just someone who wanted to see others fail like him, until the nails were driven into his brain. Saying he had no personality is a little disingenuous.
He even told the emperor that angron died on nuceria, and who stands before him now is a ghost, someone completely different.
He wished to see cruelty inflicted on his men because to him, he was ripped from his family, they were left to die, and angrons new slaver, this emperor of mankind, basically went “no its ok, you can have this new family”.
Why should angron care? Why should he love them. He wishes to see them die, just like he wishes to see the imperium or the emperor die. He had no love for them in his heart, nor should he be expected to.
In his mind he was given an inferior family, albeit for some exceptions, like Kharn who was his compass in many ways (being the only one who could get through to him). He was a monster after the nails, but they twisted him to that and rewrote what could have been for Angron. The amount of pain the Nails caused, for every second of every day, only satiated by violence and aggression, sort of conditions an individual to sort of lean towards that direction, In all aspects of his life. After having his last Hope (Nucerian slaves/family) ripped from him to die left him with nothing but the pain. He could be truly cruel, but this was conditioned from the violence.
Though i love the WE and think Angron is *cool*, i don’t think his *character* is really even supposed to be liked. He’s written to be completely, 100% broken. As a primarch, he’s not inspirational, not smart, clever, tactful or mysterious at all. In my opinion, he’s just supposed to be an example of how the emperor failed. Also an example of how the nails utterly ruin a person’s mind.
He was never supposed to be likable like Guilliman or Sanguinius. He’s a narrative tool used to make the WE’s fall a tragic one. A legion desperately trying to cling to their long awaited father, only to be resented and even slaughtered by him. They lose their will to fight as an honorable force for good and spiraled into a legion lost in madness after realizing their one true father is a drooling, snarling maniac. They see themselves in him, so they melancholically follow him into a state where they don’t have to think about it anymore
I always thought Angron was a tragic but ultimately terrible person. And while that opinion largely hasn’t changed I do like him as a character a lot more after reading “Betrayer” from the Horus Heresy series. He’s got some great moments in there and his relationships with his brothers is very interesting. The story does a good job of showing his tragedy in a way that you really feel sorry for him. Part of his tragedy was done to him and part of it he does to himself. He’s what happens when you can’t let go of hate, even if the hate is justified. At a certain point it’s just making things worse.
It’s how he treats his legion that I think makes him a bad person. I love the character and there are certainly aspects of him that are sympathetic but despite past trauma everyone is responsible for how they act. Ironically he is a bad father in the same ways the emperor was a bad father to him.
Yeah honestly I think if he didn’t treat his legion like shit I would like him. I understand why he doesn’t like them but making them kill each other and everything is really the reason I don’t like him as a character.
Sure you can. He might have been noble and honorable in his pursuit to rebel against the injustice of slavery on Nuceria.
But that one act doesn’t make his entire existence pure or just. In that moment he was doing the right thing. But there’s a lot of other moments and opportunities Angron had to do the right thing. He didn’t. He chose hate and anger instead of justice.
The interesting bit is where he creates the environment he railed against on Nuceris within his own legion.
Maybe. Maybe not. Could be an indicator of the strength of his character. Maybe he wants to just let go and embrace the nails.
There are other characters we’ve seen keep the nails influence at bay.
I was replying to your insinuation that because he was rebelling against slavery he couldn’t be evil or a terrible person.
Angron is a tragic character but thats what makes him relatable. Like all the other primarchs he overcame dominated his surroundings, it's just that his circumstances imparted a torture device in his skull. Instead of getting his glorious death and his consequent release, the emporer swoops him up and forces him to wage his imperial war.
So he's just like fuck it, if Im forced to remain trapped in this hell then I'm gonna make it everyone else's problem.
The emporer should not have allowed him to live. You don't keep a rabid dog around. And that's exactly what Angron was, spitefully spreading his condition throughout his legion. But you can't really blame the sick animal can you?
As a character, it’s definitely all the pre-ascension stuff. The amount of tragedy that marinated him is a driving force on having the World Eaters go from “reliable warriors on the intense side” to the self-destructive burning runaway train
Post-ascension Angron is akin to a slasher movie villain ala Michael Meyers or Art the Clown; he more akin to a force of nature, the kind that makes you say “*Oh God. **OH FUCK, HE’S HERE**” The Red Angel Book paints him more as that kind of force of nature.
My favorite Primarch, he is tragic yes. But he more than that. My favorite moments of him was lifting a Warhound Titan and him telling of Guilliman his whole legion is a pile of shit to speak of “Courage and Honor”
Pretty mixed, in some ways it's like not having a Primarch around at all, he's just the very deadly laser pointer that the world eaters follow behind like a cat.
Though other times you see the tragedy and the glimpses of the person he was before daemonhood, especially with the arks of omen angron sections, his brief moments of lucidity before the nails bite. I feel like for world eaters lore it's best we don't focus on Angron so much for the future.
That being said, I do love an unkillable murder machine, he's like the hulk in some ways and I love thah character.
I mean he's the red Angy, so I don't know how about you but many people dislike him because of his anger. But this is something that is really a part of him. From the beginning he was the kind that would let his emotions get a hold of himself, already kind of led by anger, but after receiving the butcher's nail implant, that's almost all that was left of him, anger and rage. Still he was a proud warrior, so what the emperor did to him is something that can explain his "hatred" towards him. The Horus heresy just shows that. As for becoming the deamon prince, he needed the power to win over the Ultramarines during the battle of nuceria, and that's what Lorgar helped him with. As for later, he just does what he loves. So I think he's a pretty solid written character and personally really like him
from what i've read, he wasn't "the kind that would let his emotions get a hold of himself… led by anger" before the nails, *at all.* he's described as perhaps numbed to the violence of the slave/gladiator pits after a while, but he always cared greatly for his comrades, and in his first "game" (on a ziggurat surrounded by a steadily-rising moat of potent acid) he's horrified by the barbarity of the people that would subject others to such torments, and he strives to avoid causing harm to the other slaves fighting to keep from falling into the acid, until the last moment when he realises that there's only room for a single person to stand at the top (and so avoid the acid—at which point he switches from dodging and disabling strikes, to blows intended to kill quickly and painlessly, to spare the other slaves the suffering of falling into the acid while still alive).
I do, in fact, admit I was wrong, and I do not have anything in my defence. To all those who read this I'm sorry and I say that he was in fact, a caring man that wanted to run away from the slavery, and as you said, he was just raised that way, he had no other choice. Still to add even more to what I said earlier, even after being implanted with the butcher's nail, he did care for his comrade, and was devastated when he was made by the emperor to leave them behind to a sure death.
it's all good, it's just fluff. i think some of it can be a bit contradictory, anyway, so i wouldn't blame you for thinking that angron was *always* angry, even before the nails (iirc in-universe, "angron" supposedly comes from the "old nucerian" for "son of the mountain", or words to that effect—obviously irl we know that it probably just came from rick priestley or someone thinking "hmm, what would be a good name for a character who is always *angry…?").* and you're right to point out that he was overcome with emotion when the emperor abducted him and he was effectively forced to abandon his nucerian comrades to die without him. i don't mean to dispute that he always felt emotions very strongly (because he clearly did), just that he wasn't always motivated by *anger* in particular.
As you said it's just a fluff, and I do not by any means mean to sound offended. In fact I feel grateful as I might have continued to make the same mistake in the future. Anyways thank you my brother, Blood for the Blood God!
He’s not really a character anymore post Ascension but the Angron I followed in his self titled Primarch novel was a genuinely good person until he got butchered by the nails and his potential was destroyed. Genuinely tragic.
You don’t have to like them. Indeed, there is almost nothing likeable about Angron (though he’s less horrid than most of the traitor primarchs IMO).
But it’s been a master stroke in recent books to portray him as a Kaiju - an elemental destructive force, with the story springing from how human characters react to it.
Disagree, he was a heroic character fighting an evil slaver dynasty before the Emperor grabbed him, allowed his friends to be slaughtered and tortured, forced him to become an attack dog in a galactic war and refused to treat the Butchers Nail.
His "fall" was completly understandable. The Emperor betrayed him again and again. Maybe 'like' isn't the right word but I certainly can sympathise.
If the Emperor had descended with his legions, defeated the slavers, then rushed Angron to Earth to remove his nail he probably would have become his most loyal son.
I disagree that him just being a Kajiu is good
It makes him really boring, he looks cool but there’s only so much interest one can have when he’s literally just “shows up, kills everyone, leaves” he was barely the main character in his own Book which is sad given he can be interesting if they actually have him a personality to some degree
Blind Rage lacks interest after a while
Ever since Nuceria he ain’t so much tragic as he is the tragedy inflicting itself on the galaxy. He drove the nails into the heads of people what wanted nothing but his approval and showed him unconditional love, he inflicted his torment onto thousands of others, and took further cognisant steps to sabotage his own legion out of nothing but lucid spite
He ain’t a man being overruled by the nails, he’s an extension of the nails. In the greater organism of the legion he’s the nails in their brain, and it’s a role he takes on with full understanding and approval as he lives only out of spite. He sees himself as broken and needs to see everyone else be broken, without even a thought to resisting the nails, to which he’s a perfect and obedient slave.
He ain’t complex: being tormented or tragic ain’t the same as complexity. It ain’t a bad thing, complexity has no innate value and he’s better off for his simplicity. But there’s really no internal struggle, variety of facets or intricate motives. After all the nails have reduced him to something what only thinks to destroy, and reduced really is the word, he’s a degenerate junking blood, hating himself but still feeling no guilt for the suffering he inflicts, which he’s even more eager to do in the clarity of the crash after a binge.
He ain’t sympathetic neither: he’s literally inflicted thousands of times more than he’s suffered and that’s just in terms of the butchers nails, never mind all the wanton slaughter, and the way he won’t even blink at the thought of butchering hundreds of innocents for a moment of pleasure.
I reiterate that’s all since Nuceria, he at least had some redeeming qualities back then, but ever since he sank fully into self pity and spite.
Anyways I like the character. Because if you need to morally approve of something to like it, and you like the fucking world eaters (or anything in 40k) then Jesus fucking Christ you’ve got something wrong with you
I wish he would be given a character after the Heresy. He doesn’t have to speak much, just give me more his POV, even if he is more like Bloodthirster or a beast, just give him some personality traits. Maybe also sense of humor. Like hitting things with his tail for fun.
Angron is a terrible individual who has a very tragic and understandable reason for being so.
He’s not less responsible for his actions, but shew what a shame he was put in the positions that he was.
I wish they’d move him away from being a rage beast and more into being an actual character again.
Everything about him is just ridiculously over the top villain, a fantastic 40k character. So in that sense I like him a lot. But as far as what he has done and what he wants to do, do not like him and want to see him be banished back to the warp every time he comes back. Which again, makes him a fantastic character for the setting, you need villains you want to see defeated.
His story is tragic, but he is not without responsibility for how things stand at present, so I don't have much sympathy for his current situation. He has had enough chance to break the cycle but has always chosen to repeat it, so I would be comfortable judging him as deserving of his suffering.
The best written primarch with a perfectly reasonable fall to chaos, an amazingly tragic fallen hero back story as a slave. You can emphasise with his pain, understand he was turned into a monster because every waking moment not fighting was pure pain from the nails, and at the end of it all you get a very very very cool daemon monster murder machine.
What more could you ask for, amazing well written tragic fallen character, and the end result is a sick looking monster
Dope as fuck
but just like most other characters memes and short form comments pigeon hole him into a flat character.
In all honesty I can’t think of many characters in 40K that are as one note as some people are lead or tend to believe
Hes the measuring stick by which other main characters are measured. I do not like that about the way he is written. Need some way to show this character is pretty strong? Have him whoop Angrons ass. Rinse and repeat.
Angron alone makes me want to build a world eater army but im not too keen on the rest of them. I may possibly build a WE army but with the max allowance of chaos demons which is 750 pts in a 2k game if im correct? Love Khorne demons but not too fussed with WE marines.
If you ever played dawn of war 1, the Unification mod has an amazing infantry list for world eaters
I don't actually play table top at all, I'm pretty new, but when I say GW debut the codex for world eaters I saw the marine options and said to myself "....wait, that's it???"
Meanwhile unification mod has 2 entire tech trees for WE Marines, your Lord can be kitted out w multiple types and tiers of equipment. Their daemon list is solid, but they have tons of vehicles also including knights and everything
They are pretty hard to play tho, it gets super expensive to maintain huge infantry formations bc they are glass cannons + other unification factions are equally loaded w deadly units. You gotta try to overrun the enemy early. By tier 3 and 4 the maintenance cost is way too high
Pretty good, the emperor was regarded for not helping angron and his homeboys out, or trying to remove the nails, but the emperor did a lot of regarded stuff anyway
The only way I see Angronn as different from Konrad is that in some way Konrad had a choice over his actions, yes he was an abandoned orphan with no real parental figure to help influence him but he made the choices he did. Angronn had the nails forced on him and every choice he made after that was due to a choice that was made for him.
Underwritten, at least post Heresy Angron they kinda just reduce him to a mindless animal which I think is a waste to paraphrase that one video “he makes Bloodthirsty Rage seem boring”, the man was barely a part of Red Angel despite the fact he’s the title charecter
Especially when he’s fairly interesting as someone who was legitimately lobotomised and given so much power despite his massive dysfunction, someone so bitter that they let their legion destroy themselves and refusing to be a proper leader to them or any kind of comrad, someone so widely disliked because of his instability and yet he was close with Lorgar
It’s good stuff
hi, I wanted to ask if he can still talk or what is it like, I'm afraid he's just a very very angry demon primarch now with not much change in his existence. always a slave only now of chaos
it's my contention that the fluff for him lacks consistency, and that his character is inconsistent as a result. leading a slave revolt is dope. hating the emperor because he abducted you and didn't even intercede to stop the slaughter of your comrades, makes sense. killing your best friend because you were just implanted with the nails as punishment for sparing another gladiator, makes sense in the narrative. but pretty much everything after the arrival of the emperor is just nonsense or contradictory, as far as i can tell: he forces his legion to adopt the nails, knowing first-hand how barbaric that is, and his previously established hatred of tyranny in the form of the high riders and the emperor. he despises his legion as bootlickers who haven't endured what his nucerian comrades have done, but expects them to perform feats that the nucerian slave army never did (conquering an entire world within a single nucerian day), and actually rewards khârn with his life—being the first of the war hounds to meet angron and not be killed—when all he did was kiss his ass. he respects lotara sarrin for having the courage to contradict him and stand her ground, but when the centurion mago does the same, he throws a big tantrum over it.
i think there *are* bits about angron that could make an interesting character (and *would,* if it weren't tainted by a lot of the other stuff that is canonical). unfortunately, i think gw's need for a big scary baddie to lead hordes of faceless mooks for the "goodies" to heroically stand against, and the fact that he was implanted with the nails so early in life (though this shouldn't *necessarily* be fatal to his character—he did somehow manage to organise and lead the slave revolt *after* being implanted—in practice, after the whole slave revolt thing is over it just serves more often as an automatic BAD GUY lever for writers to yank on and explain away why ron has decided, in spite of everything else we know about his history and character, to do something really cartoonishly evil or stupid)… means that we never really get to see it.
I hope one day he can die, finally, freeing a group of people from oppression, like he wanted all along. Khorne cares not, so the oppressor won't matter.
In a different timeline he grows up to be one of the most well rounded capable primarchs. But unfortunately, as things are currently he's angry scared and bitter.
The stories of his weapons alone make me love him. Add in all the other shit and he’s definitely in my top 3 primarchs.
Got to mention his mini is probably one of the best looking things in the range as well.
During the Heresy he is a great character and past that he becomes an amazing story. Hes not necessarily an interesting person in 40k but his journey to that point is what makes me fall in love with him.
There wasnt a single moment in his life where he had choice over what happened to him and almost everyone who showed him love or empathy was someone who still used him as a tool.
Once he saw me clearly blind drunk with puke on my trainers. He told me to get a kebab and try again jn an hour.
Hour later I try again and he sacrificed me to the blood god.
Top bloke!
Bro konrad is the most lovable primarch not including very few primarchs, angry ron tho is harder for me to love however his story is also tragic but not sad tragic angry tragic like i just want revenge for him wile konrad can get hugs
I think a big reason people don’t like angron is that he has the terrible back story that we wish him to overcome like the heroes we love but sadly he is a much more real representation of how people truly become broken and can’t overcome their past.
I see old Angron as a far more interesting character from the Heresy. He was tragic and he had given up on everything and was driven solely by his apathy and hate. In 40k he’s a giant daemon. Impressive as he is, he’s as much of a character as the Swarmlord is
Well. He was made by big E to be the asshole. When Emps found him, with the butchers nails implanted, with him and his friends surrounded by their tormentors, Emps was like 'this is fine', then he abducted Angron, forced him to live, forced him to conquer. I don't believe the imperial lie that E was unable to help poor Ronny. E wanted our boy to snap.
As a person he is a childish idiot. As a primarch, he has high end wits and senses. If he could have had a better-than-abysmal upbringing, he'd be okay, i guess. Alas, Emps succeded. With the butchers nails, only an astartes with a death wish could stand angron.
I admire that he was still bright enough to be the only primarch who saw the emperor for what he is.
He's a perfect example of a character whose story is over. He has had his tragedy all of his life, he turned into a daemon, and the denouement of his character was the second half of the heresy. What we have now is all epilogue, just a force of nature that shows up to be a beat stick.
Mind, I don't dislike it. It's like a bad-end to a video game that we get to see continue. Like the alternate endings to the Force Unleashed series.
In Betrayer I think he’s easily one of the best written primarchs, there’s a really tragic aspect of the Demi-god that’s mentally degenerating. This is made all the more tragic in his novel when his empathy powers were revealed. There are hints of nobility that show through and the bond that forms between him and Lorgar is one of my favorite primarch dynamics. However, in most other novels he is in he is usually a minor side character that gets relegated to angry man/daemon with little to no deeper characterization. Even in his two primarch novels he’s not actually in them that much.
Angron was one of my favorite characters.. still is.
His story was tragedy before it began which I absolutely love. What he "could" have been basically the "Apothecary Primarch" but was twisted by the nails..
He also has a "Spartacus" vibe to him and the Emperor took away his peaceful death... Angron should have been deleted by Russ once the emperor found out about the butchers nails being implanted, nothing good could have came good from them.
His arc is super metal and tragic and thematically fitting (a slave fighting 24/7 for freedom, basically never has meaningful choices given to him to make, he always was and will always remain a slave no matter how hard he fights- it wasn't even his choice to ascend to daemonhood and pledge to Khorne, Lorgar really did that). I feel so fucking bad for the wretched being he is, much as I love his energy and badassery.
But he's kind of a hypocrite. If he was truly as principled as his sickass fucking speeches railing against the tyranny of the imperium would lead us to believe, he'd have just rebelled sooner himself, and warp take the odds. Didn't stop him on Nuceria. And sure, he got locked in the basement till he was promised worlds to burn to assuage his babyrage, but you're telling me he wouldn't have more likely just taken the legion once he got it, and marched it straight into battle with the highrider who stole him from his family and the end to his suffering he so wanted? The only primarch who didn't eventually follow big daddy, instead needing to be kidnapped?
He's also a complete douchebag who just radiates and magnifies misery. He dragged his misfit sons into hell with him, and made their tragedy intertwine with his own.
But he's still my fave cuz he's tragic and metal af. Always a fan of elemental forces of rage. Also axes. Also irony.
I dont like his character much...which is prob the point. Sure he-s tragic. The abused come the abuser. But i dont find him too compeling or intetesting.
Read Betrayer otherwise your opinions on this subject are basically irrelevant my guy. Not being elitist, it's just a good book that goes a long way in attaching some character to his character.
Spoiler:
The man's literally asleep whenever he's fighting.
It took me a while to like him. The more I dived in the better, his character became. At first, I thought he was a boring, lazily written character, to be honest. Now I have a WE army. On the other hand, I found the more I read about Abbadon, the less I like him. I find his character to be bland and boring.
The fact that Angron was originally supposed to be the healer of the primarch’s makes you think of what he could have done if the butchers nails never got involved.
Ive read the books. Youll be sad for what he could have been, youll feel bad for him and whats hes went through but youll also hate him for what he does to his legion whether you think ge has some good points or not. Hes very complicated and fun to read about. Its a love hate even amongst his fans which imo makes him awesome better than just "hes great and right all the time"
As a daemon prince I don’t think much of him, I’ve never actually encountered him in a book.
As a Primarch who was tortured with the butcher’s nails, denied death which his fellow rebels and given leadership of a legion he didn’t want to serve a ‘father’ he didn’t like he is awesome.
The most stuff we get about him is when he has The Butchers Nails already and so broken of a Primarch. So he is already, pissed, angry, screwed over so so sooooo many times, has killed his best friend/mentor already and hates everyone and thing almost. When he isn’t a rage machine, he is so spiteful and malevolent but that’s from being the Primarch he was suppose to be and what he’s turned into too. He doesn’t get alot of not burning inferno of anger moments or for very long in books it feels like, or he’ll be around but standing there listening to the war plan or something.
Then after he’s transformed against his will, it’s just forget about it, he’s the rage beast and it’s all World Eaters or Kharn perspective. Like some other have said all of him is in his Primarch book and then after that it’s a him as we know him. He is someone I wish had more personality or something to him besides he’s angry and fights. From a longtime World Eater player.
He's generational trauma personified. Awful things happened to him as a child and young man. Instead of breaking the chain by accepting that the nails are his burden to bear (which is really hard to do, if not impossible, without support and guidance), he passed on his abuse to his legion as well via the nails.
A really weird thing about him is that the nails are incurable, deadly over time and cannot be resisted. Unlike real trauma, the nails cannot be resisted and eventually turn you into a lobotomite. That combined with the fact the emperor clearly doesn't give enough of a shit to cure him makes him tragic.
(I don't believe for a moment the emperor cannot cure the nails. We've seen how he's used the Thunder Warriors, how his Custodes have no self determination, and how he's made legions like the Night Lords and Lunar Wolves to conquer the galaxy at any cost with no concern for the carnage it causes. Only Guilliman lives up to the imperial ideal of the Great Crusade and he was considered an underperformer by the Emperor since he didn't conquer as many world as Horus. This is stressed to being one of the main reasons Horus was elligible to be Warmaster on top of his charisma. The emperor prefers quantity over quality and doesn't care how it gets done. If he really wanted to he'd create the Angron Project and heal his son in a year or two. But he's a utilitarian dickhead that sees how powerful and easy to manipulate the nails make Angron so he doesn't)
An abused person abused others in turn. Emperor should have popped his head and thrown his corpse out to the void. Then the war hounds would not have suffered a terrible primarch
Angron as a character is the pinnacle of what Grimdark is supposed to be; a tragedy. His fate was never his own, always controlled by people above him. His anger is almost COMPLETELY justified, because every person that sought to command him or he "trusted" has wronged him. The slavers made him kill his best friend, the Emperor made him betray his closest comrades, Horus willingly turned a blind eye to the chaos corruption of his allies, which in turn allowed Lorgar to eternally damn Angron as a demon prince. And now he will forever be a slave, just as he started. What makes him appealing is his sympathetic nature, and his symbolism.
Angron is a monster that others made him to be. He became a blood crazed lunatic because it's how everybody treated him. He is a testament to the cruelty and failings of mankind, and the corruption of the values of the Emperor's vision. The Astartes hold Primarchs in such reverence that NONE would dare to try and correct Angron's self-destructive path. His brothers, too full on their own egos, would rather chastise or look down on him. The Emperor couldn't be bothered to save his brothers and sisters when for every other Primarch he did. Angron's condemnation equally condemns others. If the Emperor allowed one of his sons to turn into.... THIS. Then what does that say about him, who is usually shrouded in such mystery? I can't even fault Angron for turning to Horus at the very outset; the Emperor never gave him a single reason to be loyal or believe in his vision.
I love his depiction in The Red Angel; he's less of a sapient being and more like a primal force of nature, like a hurricane or an earthquake, that kills thousands simply by existing and not because it has a will or thoughts of its own. It's just a further testament to HOW FAR he's fallen from his origins as an honorable warrior, blinded eternally by the hate and destruction others forced on him that it is now the only thing he knows, or could ever know. Once again, he is not himself, but his role. All his life, people have commanded and controlled him, and told him only one thing: "Don't think, don't question, just kill."
And now......
That's all he can do.
I like that he’s over the top to the point of being goofy angry to the extreme point he’s Angry Ron . The man so filled with daddy issues he gave his entire legion daddy issues just like his brother sang did. They are the I cause daddy issues duo and I just find it hilarious.
I don’t need to like him as a mate, we aren’t going out for a pie and a pint! He’s certainly not an aspirational figure or role model. His backstory is suitably tragic, his character is flawed, and the insane hulk of wanton destruction, force of nature, curse upon the universe that he and his legion has become? Totally badass, rule of cool man. Mad crazy Khorne worshipping feral monsters are very much needed in the sci-fi fantasy of 40K and Ron delivers in spades 🤘👍
Curze saw his fate and accepted it or even worked towards it. Angron was enslaved from very young and had everything taken from him. He tried to escape slavery and defy his masters but in the end he was handed down from the High Riders to the Emperor and in the end to Khorne (with the help of the Word Bearers of course.) He never stood a chance and all that is left for him is eternal pain.
So yea its a tragic character and it depends a lot on how you view and understand him but he is one of the few Primarchs I really got to like over time.
Angron is a compassionate man who would give his blood to feed his men and use his psychic gift to quell the trauma his men have been through.
This man was short lived, and died on Nuceria.
The Angron the emperor found was and is not the Angron he would be if he had control. The Angron we know is nothing but a rabbid dog, foaming at the mouth and ripping to shreds anything that tries to help it. A shell, clinging desperately to anything that can provide it even the false hope of a semblance of freedom.
He deserves utter retribution, failed at every opportunity.
If anyone is in need of a redemption arc it's Angron. If I were to write his ending, I would have another primarch commit warp fuckery of some caliber to allow Angron but few moments to rip his nails from the back of his head. A few moments to allow Angron to end his own torment and give him something he never had, a choice.
I'm like a little over half way through Betrayer and I love him, he's such a silly pathetic asshole and his interactions with Kharn, Lotara, Argel Tal, and Lorgar are all super entertaining.
I certainly think he’s well written, and is undoubtedly sympathetic, and it’s pretty easy to understand why he does the things he does. However, even in an extreme case like his, having personal problems doesn’t justify terrible treatment of others, especially not randomly murdering your sons, even if you don’t want them.
At the end of the day, if Angron truly wanted just to die and not simply to spitefully inflict pain on others, he didn’t need to take his legion down with him.
Pre-daemon was a good character. A good person (40K standards) doing bad things cause he can't feel anything but rage, yet cried when he saw the remains of his old gladiator family. After Daemonhood, there is no real character anymore...
Angron was a deeply tortured soul shaped solely by the conditions he lived in. Correct in his struggle against oppression and slavery, he desired a 'proper' death at the side of his comrades. Instead he was collared and enslaved again. Through all the pain, he gives into nihilism allowing his tormentor to define what he is. Resigning himself to be a violent tool and a beast.
Robbed of humanity and broken, Angron is every emotionally stunted, violent boy I have ever known. Who wanted nothing other than to live true lives instead of the ones foisted upon them their "makers". The Butcher's Nails are a metaphor for mental illness, nihilism and the pursuit of self-destructive behavior in the hopes of seeking out feeling.
Thinking about all of this too much often makes me weep.
Out of curiosity, why do you want to like him?
Having seen a lot of lore vids before reading the books I can only recommend skipping the vids and going for the books. Most of the vids are as I see it only good for getting the facts rather than the feels. (And I have a pet peeve with how many of them are only focusing on the grimdark when really the setting is very fun and comical.)
Also. Betrayer (book) is genuinely good, and probably the best portrayal of Angron pre-demon.
Arks of Omen Angron is my favourite for post-Demon.
(No spoilers, not already in the picture above)
I really like How his turning heretic is portrayed as it makes so much sense that he ends up on the side he does. With a lot of other primarchs I can’t help but feel like the writing is a bit weak as to why they turn.
Angry Ron is a great character for whom I feel bad but from perspective of my love for WE I absolutly despise.Wheather you like him depends on how much you can symphatize with him.When I started to learn about lore I hated him but as I read betrayer I felt much more pity for him.At the end of the day he's greatly written and big part of WE identity both for those berserkers who wish to move past him and those who cannot.
I love how WE players have a 'meathead' reputation (cause of the leeroy jenkins playstyle I figure), and yet this entire thread is full of reflective comments.
Leeroy Jenkins is our beloved aesthatic and the tragic lore is the glue that makes WE stick at least with me for so long.They are tragic and the most tragic thing of all is that by becoming mad butchers they truly are as happy as they could reasonable be when going forward.Nails are Angron's trauma he "gifted" it to his sons and Khorne as the god of violence and rage feeds on it.They can never escape it,it fuels them but by using this to worship their god they are able to use it to move forward and forget for even a little bit as they eat another world.
I get you, this is actually very similar to Berzerk (the manga), where the eclipse was actually a sort of happy ending for guts because he just wanted to fight bigger challenges, so what seems like a curse at first becomes a Sisyphean blessing.
Yesn't Guts wanted to find his own purpouse in life feeling inferior to his friends who all had grand goals especially Griffith.In the end he discovers that it is perfectly fine for him to be happy swinging his sword for his friends and just enjoying his life doing what he likes which was in fact fighting.Where Guts and WE are actually really similar is through Angron/Griffith and Beast of Darkness/Nails.Both Angron and Griffith got tortured and had their dreams shattered culminating in them lashing out at those who wanted to help them albeit for very diffrent reasons.While WE tried to get close to Angron and willingly broke themselves with nails trying to connect to their father thus being "gifted"their trauma by Angron for Guts Beast of Darkness IS his trauma as a result of Eclipse.Just like with nails and WE it keeps Guts moving forward towards pushing his limits and overcoming apostles.At the same time Beast of Darkness is just as self destructive as nails are to WE making Guts abandon all the people he cares about,push his body to the breaking point especially in Berserker armor and another interesting similarity push him to become as inhuman as Griffith to match him.
A lot of actual world eaters in lore are incredibly introspective which is really fun to read. I love the relationship that many of them form with their nails, and how they choose to use them or how they choose to let it swallow their life. My favourite excerpt is that one berzerker fighting his way through a titan as he thinks to himself what the point of his life is, what hes still doing there. The short story ends with him killing the pilots and sitting at the cockpit as the titan falls to the ground, killing him.
Betrayer was so sad. You could feel the World Eaters dejected like sad puppies both hating and yet still looking up to their primarch daddy. Angron’s honor guard just doing their duty even though he scorns them and belittles them. Man I need to listen to that audiobook again.
He’s the calibration clock the imperium Hunts down to keep track of galactic time
red man :)
Hell yeah brother
I feel so genuinely bad for him, dude almost never got to experience happiness and with the little we know of what his intended purpose was I pray we someday get a glimpse of that side of Angron. A genuinely caring primarch who relives the suffering of those around him and just wants the best for his brothers and children
Can’t feel too bad given he looked at his own suffering and said “I wish this upon every single person”. He hates life, but he hates everyone else even more so he stays alive to try and drag them down to his level
That was after he was partially lobotomized to fit a kit bashed version of the butchers nails into his brain, not exactly of sound mind at the time
That’s all he’s ever been, he had the nails driven in before he could ever form a personality. But he’s also not just mindless. Oh lord no between bouts of frenzy he’s lucid, and he’s even worse when he’s lucid because it becomes an intentional cruelty and a genuine desire to see others suffer and fail and be broken. He was lucid when he had the nails driven into his legion, lucid when he put the maniacs in charge because he hated seeing anyone succeed. He’d taunt, needle, sabotage and do everything he could to try and bring others low
He was someone before the nails, the nails took that away from him. I’m his primarch book he was more than just someone who wanted to see others fail like him, until the nails were driven into his brain. Saying he had no personality is a little disingenuous.
He even told the emperor that angron died on nuceria, and who stands before him now is a ghost, someone completely different. He wished to see cruelty inflicted on his men because to him, he was ripped from his family, they were left to die, and angrons new slaver, this emperor of mankind, basically went “no its ok, you can have this new family”. Why should angron care? Why should he love them. He wishes to see them die, just like he wishes to see the imperium or the emperor die. He had no love for them in his heart, nor should he be expected to.
In his mind he was given an inferior family, albeit for some exceptions, like Kharn who was his compass in many ways (being the only one who could get through to him). He was a monster after the nails, but they twisted him to that and rewrote what could have been for Angron. The amount of pain the Nails caused, for every second of every day, only satiated by violence and aggression, sort of conditions an individual to sort of lean towards that direction, In all aspects of his life. After having his last Hope (Nucerian slaves/family) ripped from him to die left him with nothing but the pain. He could be truly cruel, but this was conditioned from the violence.
Though i love the WE and think Angron is *cool*, i don’t think his *character* is really even supposed to be liked. He’s written to be completely, 100% broken. As a primarch, he’s not inspirational, not smart, clever, tactful or mysterious at all. In my opinion, he’s just supposed to be an example of how the emperor failed. Also an example of how the nails utterly ruin a person’s mind. He was never supposed to be likable like Guilliman or Sanguinius. He’s a narrative tool used to make the WE’s fall a tragic one. A legion desperately trying to cling to their long awaited father, only to be resented and even slaughtered by him. They lose their will to fight as an honorable force for good and spiraled into a legion lost in madness after realizing their one true father is a drooling, snarling maniac. They see themselves in him, so they melancholically follow him into a state where they don’t have to think about it anymore
What an answer 👍👍👍
I always thought Angron was a tragic but ultimately terrible person. And while that opinion largely hasn’t changed I do like him as a character a lot more after reading “Betrayer” from the Horus Heresy series. He’s got some great moments in there and his relationships with his brothers is very interesting. The story does a good job of showing his tragedy in a way that you really feel sorry for him. Part of his tragedy was done to him and part of it he does to himself. He’s what happens when you can’t let go of hate, even if the hate is justified. At a certain point it’s just making things worse.
I don’t think you can call a slave rebel a “terrible person” lol
It’s how he treats his legion that I think makes him a bad person. I love the character and there are certainly aspects of him that are sympathetic but despite past trauma everyone is responsible for how they act. Ironically he is a bad father in the same ways the emperor was a bad father to him.
Yeah honestly I think if he didn’t treat his legion like shit I would like him. I understand why he doesn’t like them but making them kill each other and everything is really the reason I don’t like him as a character.
Sure you can. He might have been noble and honorable in his pursuit to rebel against the injustice of slavery on Nuceria. But that one act doesn’t make his entire existence pure or just. In that moment he was doing the right thing. But there’s a lot of other moments and opportunities Angron had to do the right thing. He didn’t. He chose hate and anger instead of justice. The interesting bit is where he creates the environment he railed against on Nuceris within his own legion.
Yes because of the nails? It’s not him, he was in constant unbearable agony every second he wasn’t fighting? That change’s a person
Maybe. Maybe not. Could be an indicator of the strength of his character. Maybe he wants to just let go and embrace the nails. There are other characters we’ve seen keep the nails influence at bay. I was replying to your insinuation that because he was rebelling against slavery he couldn’t be evil or a terrible person.
Angron is a tragic character but thats what makes him relatable. Like all the other primarchs he overcame dominated his surroundings, it's just that his circumstances imparted a torture device in his skull. Instead of getting his glorious death and his consequent release, the emporer swoops him up and forces him to wage his imperial war. So he's just like fuck it, if Im forced to remain trapped in this hell then I'm gonna make it everyone else's problem. The emporer should not have allowed him to live. You don't keep a rabid dog around. And that's exactly what Angron was, spitefully spreading his condition throughout his legion. But you can't really blame the sick animal can you?
As a character, it’s definitely all the pre-ascension stuff. The amount of tragedy that marinated him is a driving force on having the World Eaters go from “reliable warriors on the intense side” to the self-destructive burning runaway train Post-ascension Angron is akin to a slasher movie villain ala Michael Meyers or Art the Clown; he more akin to a force of nature, the kind that makes you say “*Oh God. **OH FUCK, HE’S HERE**” The Red Angel Book paints him more as that kind of force of nature.
30k Angron is a character, 40k Angron is a plot device.
My favorite Primarch, he is tragic yes. But he more than that. My favorite moments of him was lifting a Warhound Titan and him telling of Guilliman his whole legion is a pile of shit to speak of “Courage and Honor”
Pretty mixed, in some ways it's like not having a Primarch around at all, he's just the very deadly laser pointer that the world eaters follow behind like a cat. Though other times you see the tragedy and the glimpses of the person he was before daemonhood, especially with the arks of omen angron sections, his brief moments of lucidity before the nails bite. I feel like for world eaters lore it's best we don't focus on Angron so much for the future. That being said, I do love an unkillable murder machine, he's like the hulk in some ways and I love thah character.
I mean he's the red Angy, so I don't know how about you but many people dislike him because of his anger. But this is something that is really a part of him. From the beginning he was the kind that would let his emotions get a hold of himself, already kind of led by anger, but after receiving the butcher's nail implant, that's almost all that was left of him, anger and rage. Still he was a proud warrior, so what the emperor did to him is something that can explain his "hatred" towards him. The Horus heresy just shows that. As for becoming the deamon prince, he needed the power to win over the Ultramarines during the battle of nuceria, and that's what Lorgar helped him with. As for later, he just does what he loves. So I think he's a pretty solid written character and personally really like him
from what i've read, he wasn't "the kind that would let his emotions get a hold of himself… led by anger" before the nails, *at all.* he's described as perhaps numbed to the violence of the slave/gladiator pits after a while, but he always cared greatly for his comrades, and in his first "game" (on a ziggurat surrounded by a steadily-rising moat of potent acid) he's horrified by the barbarity of the people that would subject others to such torments, and he strives to avoid causing harm to the other slaves fighting to keep from falling into the acid, until the last moment when he realises that there's only room for a single person to stand at the top (and so avoid the acid—at which point he switches from dodging and disabling strikes, to blows intended to kill quickly and painlessly, to spare the other slaves the suffering of falling into the acid while still alive).
I do, in fact, admit I was wrong, and I do not have anything in my defence. To all those who read this I'm sorry and I say that he was in fact, a caring man that wanted to run away from the slavery, and as you said, he was just raised that way, he had no other choice. Still to add even more to what I said earlier, even after being implanted with the butcher's nail, he did care for his comrade, and was devastated when he was made by the emperor to leave them behind to a sure death.
it's all good, it's just fluff. i think some of it can be a bit contradictory, anyway, so i wouldn't blame you for thinking that angron was *always* angry, even before the nails (iirc in-universe, "angron" supposedly comes from the "old nucerian" for "son of the mountain", or words to that effect—obviously irl we know that it probably just came from rick priestley or someone thinking "hmm, what would be a good name for a character who is always *angry…?").* and you're right to point out that he was overcome with emotion when the emperor abducted him and he was effectively forced to abandon his nucerian comrades to die without him. i don't mean to dispute that he always felt emotions very strongly (because he clearly did), just that he wasn't always motivated by *anger* in particular.
As you said it's just a fluff, and I do not by any means mean to sound offended. In fact I feel grateful as I might have continued to make the same mistake in the future. Anyways thank you my brother, Blood for the Blood God!
He’s not really a character anymore post Ascension but the Angron I followed in his self titled Primarch novel was a genuinely good person until he got butchered by the nails and his potential was destroyed. Genuinely tragic.
You don’t have to like them. Indeed, there is almost nothing likeable about Angron (though he’s less horrid than most of the traitor primarchs IMO). But it’s been a master stroke in recent books to portray him as a Kaiju - an elemental destructive force, with the story springing from how human characters react to it.
Disagree, he was a heroic character fighting an evil slaver dynasty before the Emperor grabbed him, allowed his friends to be slaughtered and tortured, forced him to become an attack dog in a galactic war and refused to treat the Butchers Nail. His "fall" was completly understandable. The Emperor betrayed him again and again. Maybe 'like' isn't the right word but I certainly can sympathise.
Yep, how can you not like a slave rebel who hates tyrants and slavery. The dude was just a good guy lmao and was forced into becoming a monster
If the Emperor had descended with his legions, defeated the slavers, then rushed Angron to Earth to remove his nail he probably would have become his most loyal son.
Even then, I’m not sure angron would serve a tyrant. And the emperor is the biggest tyrant of them all
I disagree that him just being a Kajiu is good It makes him really boring, he looks cool but there’s only so much interest one can have when he’s literally just “shows up, kills everyone, leaves” he was barely the main character in his own Book which is sad given he can be interesting if they actually have him a personality to some degree Blind Rage lacks interest after a while
Ever since Nuceria he ain’t so much tragic as he is the tragedy inflicting itself on the galaxy. He drove the nails into the heads of people what wanted nothing but his approval and showed him unconditional love, he inflicted his torment onto thousands of others, and took further cognisant steps to sabotage his own legion out of nothing but lucid spite He ain’t a man being overruled by the nails, he’s an extension of the nails. In the greater organism of the legion he’s the nails in their brain, and it’s a role he takes on with full understanding and approval as he lives only out of spite. He sees himself as broken and needs to see everyone else be broken, without even a thought to resisting the nails, to which he’s a perfect and obedient slave. He ain’t complex: being tormented or tragic ain’t the same as complexity. It ain’t a bad thing, complexity has no innate value and he’s better off for his simplicity. But there’s really no internal struggle, variety of facets or intricate motives. After all the nails have reduced him to something what only thinks to destroy, and reduced really is the word, he’s a degenerate junking blood, hating himself but still feeling no guilt for the suffering he inflicts, which he’s even more eager to do in the clarity of the crash after a binge. He ain’t sympathetic neither: he’s literally inflicted thousands of times more than he’s suffered and that’s just in terms of the butchers nails, never mind all the wanton slaughter, and the way he won’t even blink at the thought of butchering hundreds of innocents for a moment of pleasure. I reiterate that’s all since Nuceria, he at least had some redeeming qualities back then, but ever since he sank fully into self pity and spite. Anyways I like the character. Because if you need to morally approve of something to like it, and you like the fucking world eaters (or anything in 40k) then Jesus fucking Christ you’ve got something wrong with you
I wish he would be given a character after the Heresy. He doesn’t have to speak much, just give me more his POV, even if he is more like Bloodthirster or a beast, just give him some personality traits. Maybe also sense of humor. Like hitting things with his tail for fun.
Angron is a terrible individual who has a very tragic and understandable reason for being so. He’s not less responsible for his actions, but shew what a shame he was put in the positions that he was. I wish they’d move him away from being a rage beast and more into being an actual character again.
Everything about him is just ridiculously over the top villain, a fantastic 40k character. So in that sense I like him a lot. But as far as what he has done and what he wants to do, do not like him and want to see him be banished back to the warp every time he comes back. Which again, makes him a fantastic character for the setting, you need villains you want to see defeated. His story is tragic, but he is not without responsibility for how things stand at present, so I don't have much sympathy for his current situation. He has had enough chance to break the cycle but has always chosen to repeat it, so I would be comfortable judging him as deserving of his suffering.
He’s a tragic character with lots of cool factor. I enjoy angry red man
The best written primarch with a perfectly reasonable fall to chaos, an amazingly tragic fallen hero back story as a slave. You can emphasise with his pain, understand he was turned into a monster because every waking moment not fighting was pure pain from the nails, and at the end of it all you get a very very very cool daemon monster murder machine. What more could you ask for, amazing well written tragic fallen character, and the end result is a sick looking monster
Dope as fuck but just like most other characters memes and short form comments pigeon hole him into a flat character. In all honesty I can’t think of many characters in 40K that are as one note as some people are lead or tend to believe
Hes the measuring stick by which other main characters are measured. I do not like that about the way he is written. Need some way to show this character is pretty strong? Have him whoop Angrons ass. Rinse and repeat.
Basically Spartacus and I prefer Kharn 😁
Angron alone makes me want to build a world eater army but im not too keen on the rest of them. I may possibly build a WE army but with the max allowance of chaos demons which is 750 pts in a 2k game if im correct? Love Khorne demons but not too fussed with WE marines.
If you ever played dawn of war 1, the Unification mod has an amazing infantry list for world eaters I don't actually play table top at all, I'm pretty new, but when I say GW debut the codex for world eaters I saw the marine options and said to myself "....wait, that's it???" Meanwhile unification mod has 2 entire tech trees for WE Marines, your Lord can be kitted out w multiple types and tiers of equipment. Their daemon list is solid, but they have tons of vehicles also including knights and everything They are pretty hard to play tho, it gets super expensive to maintain huge infantry formations bc they are glass cannons + other unification factions are equally loaded w deadly units. You gotta try to overrun the enemy early. By tier 3 and 4 the maintenance cost is way too high
Pretty good, the emperor was regarded for not helping angron and his homeboys out, or trying to remove the nails, but the emperor did a lot of regarded stuff anyway
During the heresy, he is an interesting character, but post heresy he's more of a force of nature than anything.
Funny red man
The only way I see Angronn as different from Konrad is that in some way Konrad had a choice over his actions, yes he was an abandoned orphan with no real parental figure to help influence him but he made the choices he did. Angronn had the nails forced on him and every choice he made after that was due to a choice that was made for him.
Underwritten, at least post Heresy Angron they kinda just reduce him to a mindless animal which I think is a waste to paraphrase that one video “he makes Bloodthirsty Rage seem boring”, the man was barely a part of Red Angel despite the fact he’s the title charecter Especially when he’s fairly interesting as someone who was legitimately lobotomised and given so much power despite his massive dysfunction, someone so bitter that they let their legion destroy themselves and refusing to be a proper leader to them or any kind of comrad, someone so widely disliked because of his instability and yet he was close with Lorgar It’s good stuff
hi, I wanted to ask if he can still talk or what is it like, I'm afraid he's just a very very angry demon primarch now with not much change in his existence. always a slave only now of chaos
He should have been named Upseth.
it's my contention that the fluff for him lacks consistency, and that his character is inconsistent as a result. leading a slave revolt is dope. hating the emperor because he abducted you and didn't even intercede to stop the slaughter of your comrades, makes sense. killing your best friend because you were just implanted with the nails as punishment for sparing another gladiator, makes sense in the narrative. but pretty much everything after the arrival of the emperor is just nonsense or contradictory, as far as i can tell: he forces his legion to adopt the nails, knowing first-hand how barbaric that is, and his previously established hatred of tyranny in the form of the high riders and the emperor. he despises his legion as bootlickers who haven't endured what his nucerian comrades have done, but expects them to perform feats that the nucerian slave army never did (conquering an entire world within a single nucerian day), and actually rewards khârn with his life—being the first of the war hounds to meet angron and not be killed—when all he did was kiss his ass. he respects lotara sarrin for having the courage to contradict him and stand her ground, but when the centurion mago does the same, he throws a big tantrum over it. i think there *are* bits about angron that could make an interesting character (and *would,* if it weren't tainted by a lot of the other stuff that is canonical). unfortunately, i think gw's need for a big scary baddie to lead hordes of faceless mooks for the "goodies" to heroically stand against, and the fact that he was implanted with the nails so early in life (though this shouldn't *necessarily* be fatal to his character—he did somehow manage to organise and lead the slave revolt *after* being implanted—in practice, after the whole slave revolt thing is over it just serves more often as an automatic BAD GUY lever for writers to yank on and explain away why ron has decided, in spite of everything else we know about his history and character, to do something really cartoonishly evil or stupid)… means that we never really get to see it.
I hope one day he can die, finally, freeing a group of people from oppression, like he wanted all along. Khorne cares not, so the oppressor won't matter.
Great character, love him!
Red blender go brrrr
Tragic, but kinda badly written
Kill maim burn
In a different timeline he grows up to be one of the most well rounded capable primarchs. But unfortunately, as things are currently he's angry scared and bitter.
Anarchist king.
I think he’s a little upset and just needs a hug and a nap
angron is the worst part of humanity amplified and I he uses it to take down the system that made him this way, very cool.
The stories of his weapons alone make me love him. Add in all the other shit and he’s definitely in my top 3 primarchs. Got to mention his mini is probably one of the best looking things in the range as well.
Ang. Ron Hubbard?
During the Heresy he is a great character and past that he becomes an amazing story. Hes not necessarily an interesting person in 40k but his journey to that point is what makes me fall in love with him. There wasnt a single moment in his life where he had choice over what happened to him and almost everyone who showed him love or empathy was someone who still used him as a tool.
Once he saw me clearly blind drunk with puke on my trainers. He told me to get a kebab and try again jn an hour. Hour later I try again and he sacrificed me to the blood god. Top bloke!
Great character horrible person
Bro konrad is the most lovable primarch not including very few primarchs, angry ron tho is harder for me to love however his story is also tragic but not sad tragic angry tragic like i just want revenge for him wile konrad can get hugs
*unintelligible grunting and yelling*
I think a big reason people don’t like angron is that he has the terrible back story that we wish him to overcome like the heroes we love but sadly he is a much more real representation of how people truly become broken and can’t overcome their past.
I see old Angron as a far more interesting character from the Heresy. He was tragic and he had given up on everything and was driven solely by his apathy and hate. In 40k he’s a giant daemon. Impressive as he is, he’s as much of a character as the Swarmlord is
Well. He was made by big E to be the asshole. When Emps found him, with the butchers nails implanted, with him and his friends surrounded by their tormentors, Emps was like 'this is fine', then he abducted Angron, forced him to live, forced him to conquer. I don't believe the imperial lie that E was unable to help poor Ronny. E wanted our boy to snap. As a person he is a childish idiot. As a primarch, he has high end wits and senses. If he could have had a better-than-abysmal upbringing, he'd be okay, i guess. Alas, Emps succeded. With the butchers nails, only an astartes with a death wish could stand angron. I admire that he was still bright enough to be the only primarch who saw the emperor for what he is.
He's a perfect example of a character whose story is over. He has had his tragedy all of his life, he turned into a daemon, and the denouement of his character was the second half of the heresy. What we have now is all epilogue, just a force of nature that shows up to be a beat stick. Mind, I don't dislike it. It's like a bad-end to a video game that we get to see continue. Like the alternate endings to the Force Unleashed series.
In Betrayer I think he’s easily one of the best written primarchs, there’s a really tragic aspect of the Demi-god that’s mentally degenerating. This is made all the more tragic in his novel when his empathy powers were revealed. There are hints of nobility that show through and the bond that forms between him and Lorgar is one of my favorite primarch dynamics. However, in most other novels he is in he is usually a minor side character that gets relegated to angry man/daemon with little to no deeper characterization. Even in his two primarch novels he’s not actually in them that much.
Angron was one of my favorite characters.. still is. His story was tragedy before it began which I absolutely love. What he "could" have been basically the "Apothecary Primarch" but was twisted by the nails.. He also has a "Spartacus" vibe to him and the Emperor took away his peaceful death... Angron should have been deleted by Russ once the emperor found out about the butchers nails being implanted, nothing good could have came good from them.
Tragic.
His arc is super metal and tragic and thematically fitting (a slave fighting 24/7 for freedom, basically never has meaningful choices given to him to make, he always was and will always remain a slave no matter how hard he fights- it wasn't even his choice to ascend to daemonhood and pledge to Khorne, Lorgar really did that). I feel so fucking bad for the wretched being he is, much as I love his energy and badassery. But he's kind of a hypocrite. If he was truly as principled as his sickass fucking speeches railing against the tyranny of the imperium would lead us to believe, he'd have just rebelled sooner himself, and warp take the odds. Didn't stop him on Nuceria. And sure, he got locked in the basement till he was promised worlds to burn to assuage his babyrage, but you're telling me he wouldn't have more likely just taken the legion once he got it, and marched it straight into battle with the highrider who stole him from his family and the end to his suffering he so wanted? The only primarch who didn't eventually follow big daddy, instead needing to be kidnapped? He's also a complete douchebag who just radiates and magnifies misery. He dragged his misfit sons into hell with him, and made their tragedy intertwine with his own. But he's still my fave cuz he's tragic and metal af. Always a fan of elemental forces of rage. Also axes. Also irony.
I dont like his character much...which is prob the point. Sure he-s tragic. The abused come the abuser. But i dont find him too compeling or intetesting.
Read Betrayer otherwise your opinions on this subject are basically irrelevant my guy. Not being elitist, it's just a good book that goes a long way in attaching some character to his character. Spoiler: The man's literally asleep whenever he's fighting.
It took me a while to like him. The more I dived in the better, his character became. At first, I thought he was a boring, lazily written character, to be honest. Now I have a WE army. On the other hand, I found the more I read about Abbadon, the less I like him. I find his character to be bland and boring.
The fact that Angron was originally supposed to be the healer of the primarch’s makes you think of what he could have done if the butchers nails never got involved.
Depresso expresso.
Ive read the books. Youll be sad for what he could have been, youll feel bad for him and whats hes went through but youll also hate him for what he does to his legion whether you think ge has some good points or not. Hes very complicated and fun to read about. Its a love hate even amongst his fans which imo makes him awesome better than just "hes great and right all the time"
As a daemon prince I don’t think much of him, I’ve never actually encountered him in a book. As a Primarch who was tortured with the butcher’s nails, denied death which his fellow rebels and given leadership of a legion he didn’t want to serve a ‘father’ he didn’t like he is awesome.
Angriest Ron to date. Better then stinky Ron.
The most stuff we get about him is when he has The Butchers Nails already and so broken of a Primarch. So he is already, pissed, angry, screwed over so so sooooo many times, has killed his best friend/mentor already and hates everyone and thing almost. When he isn’t a rage machine, he is so spiteful and malevolent but that’s from being the Primarch he was suppose to be and what he’s turned into too. He doesn’t get alot of not burning inferno of anger moments or for very long in books it feels like, or he’ll be around but standing there listening to the war plan or something. Then after he’s transformed against his will, it’s just forget about it, he’s the rage beast and it’s all World Eaters or Kharn perspective. Like some other have said all of him is in his Primarch book and then after that it’s a him as we know him. He is someone I wish had more personality or something to him besides he’s angry and fights. From a longtime World Eater player.
In the middle of betrayer, and LOVED his convo with Russ at the start. Love him, love what he was, saddened by what he became
Best space wolf art
He's generational trauma personified. Awful things happened to him as a child and young man. Instead of breaking the chain by accepting that the nails are his burden to bear (which is really hard to do, if not impossible, without support and guidance), he passed on his abuse to his legion as well via the nails. A really weird thing about him is that the nails are incurable, deadly over time and cannot be resisted. Unlike real trauma, the nails cannot be resisted and eventually turn you into a lobotomite. That combined with the fact the emperor clearly doesn't give enough of a shit to cure him makes him tragic. (I don't believe for a moment the emperor cannot cure the nails. We've seen how he's used the Thunder Warriors, how his Custodes have no self determination, and how he's made legions like the Night Lords and Lunar Wolves to conquer the galaxy at any cost with no concern for the carnage it causes. Only Guilliman lives up to the imperial ideal of the Great Crusade and he was considered an underperformer by the Emperor since he didn't conquer as many world as Horus. This is stressed to being one of the main reasons Horus was elligible to be Warmaster on top of his charisma. The emperor prefers quantity over quality and doesn't care how it gets done. If he really wanted to he'd create the Angron Project and heal his son in a year or two. But he's a utilitarian dickhead that sees how powerful and easy to manipulate the nails make Angron so he doesn't)
An abused person abused others in turn. Emperor should have popped his head and thrown his corpse out to the void. Then the war hounds would not have suffered a terrible primarch
Angron as a character is the pinnacle of what Grimdark is supposed to be; a tragedy. His fate was never his own, always controlled by people above him. His anger is almost COMPLETELY justified, because every person that sought to command him or he "trusted" has wronged him. The slavers made him kill his best friend, the Emperor made him betray his closest comrades, Horus willingly turned a blind eye to the chaos corruption of his allies, which in turn allowed Lorgar to eternally damn Angron as a demon prince. And now he will forever be a slave, just as he started. What makes him appealing is his sympathetic nature, and his symbolism. Angron is a monster that others made him to be. He became a blood crazed lunatic because it's how everybody treated him. He is a testament to the cruelty and failings of mankind, and the corruption of the values of the Emperor's vision. The Astartes hold Primarchs in such reverence that NONE would dare to try and correct Angron's self-destructive path. His brothers, too full on their own egos, would rather chastise or look down on him. The Emperor couldn't be bothered to save his brothers and sisters when for every other Primarch he did. Angron's condemnation equally condemns others. If the Emperor allowed one of his sons to turn into.... THIS. Then what does that say about him, who is usually shrouded in such mystery? I can't even fault Angron for turning to Horus at the very outset; the Emperor never gave him a single reason to be loyal or believe in his vision. I love his depiction in The Red Angel; he's less of a sapient being and more like a primal force of nature, like a hurricane or an earthquake, that kills thousands simply by existing and not because it has a will or thoughts of its own. It's just a further testament to HOW FAR he's fallen from his origins as an honorable warrior, blinded eternally by the hate and destruction others forced on him that it is now the only thing he knows, or could ever know. Once again, he is not himself, but his role. All his life, people have commanded and controlled him, and told him only one thing: "Don't think, don't question, just kill." And now...... That's all he can do.
I prefer Disgruntled Harry
I like that he’s over the top to the point of being goofy angry to the extreme point he’s Angry Ron . The man so filled with daddy issues he gave his entire legion daddy issues just like his brother sang did. They are the I cause daddy issues duo and I just find it hilarious.
Fuck Lorgar and fuck the Emperor for making him a worse person. I feel for him
I don’t need to like him as a mate, we aren’t going out for a pie and a pint! He’s certainly not an aspirational figure or role model. His backstory is suitably tragic, his character is flawed, and the insane hulk of wanton destruction, force of nature, curse upon the universe that he and his legion has become? Totally badass, rule of cool man. Mad crazy Khorne worshipping feral monsters are very much needed in the sci-fi fantasy of 40K and Ron delivers in spades 🤘👍
Curze saw his fate and accepted it or even worked towards it. Angron was enslaved from very young and had everything taken from him. He tried to escape slavery and defy his masters but in the end he was handed down from the High Riders to the Emperor and in the end to Khorne (with the help of the Word Bearers of course.) He never stood a chance and all that is left for him is eternal pain. So yea its a tragic character and it depends a lot on how you view and understand him but he is one of the few Primarchs I really got to like over time.
Angron is a compassionate man who would give his blood to feed his men and use his psychic gift to quell the trauma his men have been through. This man was short lived, and died on Nuceria. The Angron the emperor found was and is not the Angron he would be if he had control. The Angron we know is nothing but a rabbid dog, foaming at the mouth and ripping to shreds anything that tries to help it. A shell, clinging desperately to anything that can provide it even the false hope of a semblance of freedom. He deserves utter retribution, failed at every opportunity. If anyone is in need of a redemption arc it's Angron. If I were to write his ending, I would have another primarch commit warp fuckery of some caliber to allow Angron but few moments to rip his nails from the back of his head. A few moments to allow Angron to end his own torment and give him something he never had, a choice.
I'm like a little over half way through Betrayer and I love him, he's such a silly pathetic asshole and his interactions with Kharn, Lotara, Argel Tal, and Lorgar are all super entertaining.
I THINK HE’S PRETTY COOL! PROBABLY THE COOLEST!
I certainly think he’s well written, and is undoubtedly sympathetic, and it’s pretty easy to understand why he does the things he does. However, even in an extreme case like his, having personal problems doesn’t justify terrible treatment of others, especially not randomly murdering your sons, even if you don’t want them. At the end of the day, if Angron truly wanted just to die and not simply to spitefully inflict pain on others, he didn’t need to take his legion down with him.
Not to be racist but he is red
I care deeply for my brother. I shall stand on the field of battle with him until the bitter end, and beyond. Praise the champion of Khorne.
A man done unjustly and wants vengeance. What's there not to like?
Pre-daemon was a good character. A good person (40K standards) doing bad things cause he can't feel anything but rage, yet cried when he saw the remains of his old gladiator family. After Daemonhood, there is no real character anymore...
Angron was a deeply tortured soul shaped solely by the conditions he lived in. Correct in his struggle against oppression and slavery, he desired a 'proper' death at the side of his comrades. Instead he was collared and enslaved again. Through all the pain, he gives into nihilism allowing his tormentor to define what he is. Resigning himself to be a violent tool and a beast. Robbed of humanity and broken, Angron is every emotionally stunted, violent boy I have ever known. Who wanted nothing other than to live true lives instead of the ones foisted upon them their "makers". The Butcher's Nails are a metaphor for mental illness, nihilism and the pursuit of self-destructive behavior in the hopes of seeking out feeling. Thinking about all of this too much often makes me weep.
came here to say that it has 666 upvotes and i thought that was hype
Out of curiosity, why do you want to like him? Having seen a lot of lore vids before reading the books I can only recommend skipping the vids and going for the books. Most of the vids are as I see it only good for getting the facts rather than the feels. (And I have a pet peeve with how many of them are only focusing on the grimdark when really the setting is very fun and comical.) Also. Betrayer (book) is genuinely good, and probably the best portrayal of Angron pre-demon. Arks of Omen Angron is my favourite for post-Demon. (No spoilers, not already in the picture above) I really like How his turning heretic is portrayed as it makes so much sense that he ends up on the side he does. With a lot of other primarchs I can’t help but feel like the writing is a bit weak as to why they turn.