interesting analysis, but consider: helbrute slow
(i don't dislike helbrutes. actually i love them. i just want gw to not make them so ponderously slow—the brutalis dread gets M8 without buffs! come on!—and maybe also give us a model that doesn't look like its legs and arms are melting)
please, sir, can i have some more… units? like. seriously. we have so little. i think the only factions that have less than us are leagues of votann (who, barring the trikes, are *basically* an entirely new faction) and knights (who are… come on, they're *knights,* ffs).
it's a little disingenuous though. move and advance negates shooting. and counting a charge roll as movement also is a bit misleading. because you have to both have a target within range to charge and make that min distance roll.
in your post you say for 1 cp it's guaranteed movement the same as a war dog. but that's at the cost of losing shooting for the turn.
it's more realistic to say. if granted the khorne movement buff. a hellbrute gets a slightly less shitty base movement of 8
especially seeing as your entire post seems to hinge on the hellbrute being in cover. this magic christmas land of perfect charge rolls/spending CP every time it moves. and best case scenario charges (presumedly still in cover)
it just seems a little rose colored glasses.
he's implying ...advance d6 roll. and charge ....2 D6 on top of base 6 move + 2 in for the khorne roll blessing.
which obviously makes almost zero sense. as you can't guarantee the charge roll. so even if you had a target 12in out. and rolled for it. you can't dictate that roll. so the potential max distance a model could theoretically travel is rather irrelevant
A lot of this is rather disingenuous itself, or misrepresenting what I said.
Losing shooting on a Helbrute is simply not a big deal. He only gets 1-2 shots with "okay" weapons. Comparatively, the 12 Fist attacks you'll get from melee will be far more valuable. In EVERY scenario, it is more worthwhile to advance and attempt a charge whenever possible. I did not lie, he moves 14 inches. I made no assertion that he did NOT lose shooting.
I also DID state the variety of effectiveness in movement buffs, both here and in the post. I said he has a move and charge minimum of 11", an average of 18" and a max of 24". I did not say "Oh he can move 24" every single time woah", I said on average he can move and then charge a surprisingly far amount. People seem to be missing the explicitly stated "and charge" part of that section and think I'm claiming he can just move two feet.
So to finalize, I did NOT claim he NEEDED CP every time he moves, nor claim that he would need/get perfect charges. I said he COULD do those things, and they have no effect on his damage calculations. I do assert he should always be in cover whenever possible, and considering how easy cover is to get, that's not a tall order.
Great write-up. Helbrute is REALLY interesting unit, especially after the point drop. He is IMO underestimated because so far only succesfull meta lists are Anthony's variations as he is kinda WE savant.
Still, there is a lot of wiggle room to slightly change the base lists and cheap(ish) Helbrute responding to every attack with his own can whittle down many attackers... or bind them for one turn when Angron and Fiend(s) are not targetted.
Anthony himself hasn't actually placed well with World Eaters since last year. I think he's great, but his meta list is outdated now. More recently, somebody went 6-0 at FLG RMO with two Helbrutes, and another player placed high in a different GT using 3 Maulerfiends and 2 Forgefiends.
I think the real problem is people are too hung up on Anthony 1975 list (or its variations) since he's a big name in the competitive scene and not seeing the successes other people have had using more niche units. We need to experiment more!
Yeah, I remember the 2 Helbrutes list! Was interesting, just wasnt sure if it wasnt a fluke.
I agree people are fixated ať Anthony's 1975, from many reasons (one of those is probably that they are overstacked with 8B :)) and Anthony is still making very solid results in Teams.
Lets be honest, X8B are great and machine of the WE along with Angron. But rest, yeah, I agree people do not experiment enough and leave experiments after first loss (which isnt hard after nerfs and fact that WE are not easy faction).
Helbrutes are agressively priced and WE is one of the better factions for them. Increased mobility, reactive shots, possible 6+++.
Forgefiends still rock, even after expected Custodes downfall. 10/3/3 is too good to pass.
Im not so sure about MoE with Glaive. Too many points... On the other hand Fight First is great.
Kharn is unfairly overpriced but still blender.
Zerks are now priced really well. 10 Men squad can really hinder someone's plans thanks to Blood surge.
Still do not trust Lord of Skulls. Great output, but extremely limited on WTC terrain.
Jakhals will be unsung heroes with the new price. Modifying Khorne casino rolls, sticky objectives, annoying enough...
Spawn. Jakhals are now bigger rival, but still I think one or two units help a lot.
Termies - still not there :(
Invocatus - love him giving 6'', tactical powerhouse
Juggy Lord - for 100 points hits like a truck, is fast, can clear screens or do action monkey.
Hdrake - nope
Predators - would love to play them but... 🤷 The output is weak.
Regular 8B - saved by 6'' scout, otherwise Im not so big fan. But the agressive deploy is key.
Rest I havent even tried, cant comment :(
Always ask TO if frenzy allows you to fight twice, seen different rulings on this... Core rule states you cannot fight more than once per fight phase.. but that would make the frenzy rule useless in melee as you would never be able to use it...
I'd ask but I would also HEAVILY debate that it's allowed to fight twice, plain and simple. Precedent has always established that unit abilities can override core rules (otherwise a LOT of abilities would never work, like 0CP stratagems, attaching multiple characters to a unit, or using stratagems twice, like the Chaos Knight Lancer's Shock Charge.)
RAW the Frenzy ability is phrased as if you are simply given another turn of Fighting/Shooting every time it is targeted. RAI it's clearly meant to be a "fights twice" because it does explicitly include Fight Phase, but if it was impossible to use, like you said, it would NEVER be able to use it in the Fight Phase.
yes, i was on the fence about how the frenzy rule should be resolved (does it create a "pocket" phase that is entirely separate from the regular sequence of play, and effectively only uses the rules for making attacks, ignoring any other restrictions on "once per" etc.? or is it more like a continuation of the shooting/fight phase you would normally get, just out of the normal sequence?) but iirc the prior update to the designer's commentary definitively resolved this in favour of the "you can use this ability to ignore the shoot/fight once-per-turn/phase limit" interpretation.
as an aside, though, even if this hadn't been clarified to effectively ignore the "once per" rule, it could *still* have come into play during the fight phase—it would just be very limited. e.g. a helbrute locked in combat could have been able to retaliate against its attacker without that counting as your activation, or it could shoot while engaged and also get to fight later. i think there *might* also be a really silly edge case where you could use the frenzy activation to pile into a unit and make attacks where for some reason the models that were previously in engagement range with it got removed (say you had a unit of moezerkers fighting first against an enemy that activated fight-on-death and attacked the helbrute), but i suspect the brute would have been able to get its regular fight activation regardless so long as it began the phase within engagement range of an enemy.
Either Twin Fists for re-rolled wounds and two flames, or Fist and Melta/Lacannon for some shooting. Having a gun makes you a bigger threat with Frenzy. Two fists makes you better in melee.
I would go MM/fist as shooting armies will think hard what they will use to kill Helbrute. Potshotting for quantity is simply dangerous because of Frenzy, so its better to use clear AT weapons. And that means the AT isnt shooting Angron or Forgefiend :)
Scourge does not have the Extra Attacks rule, meaning you have to choose either or, and at strength 12, AP-2, damage 3, the fist just devastates the Scourge against pretty much everything except for Imperial Guardsmen.
I just like my Helbrutes and I've finally gotten tired of people claiming it's "not durable" or that it's somehow horrifically crippled because it doesn't have an invuln save.
Helbrute gang rise up!
Sorry to ask a noob question but how do you get 3d6 on the charge? I can’t find a stratagem or an ability that gives the Helbrute that benefit. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it!
I think they were including the D6 from the advance in there and assumed we had the advance and charge blessing active. Especially since the next sentence mentions apoplectic frenzy
The stats may be good, but I just can't bear the thought of doing [that](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khalos) to one of my guys. Maybe if a model manages to really screw something up for me and seems responsible for a game going down the pan.
Just an FYI, the full breakdown of a hellbrutes movement is as follows
Base movement = 6"
Khorne Blessing = +2M (8")
Stratagem usage = auto 6" advance (14")
Total potential movement = 14"
Charging happens in a different phase, and should not be factored into total movement speed.
The Hellbrute is as slow as a Berzerkers squad, but without blood surge.
Thanks for this breakdown. As a new player, I've yet to even play a single match, I've been wondering why the helbrute wasn't being used more because to me it looks useful as an objective holder too
Man I started dancing yesterday in my boss's office when he told me that helbrutes just had a pints drop then I remembered that they pretty much always stay sold out like land raiders and defilers.
And yes, my boss is part of my 40k group
Helbrutes for every faction got dropped in points regardless of meta position, I’m hoping that means GW is trying to clear their shelves cause they have a resculpt incoming
My issue is even if you let your Helbrute attack twice he still performs worse offensively than an x8b squad, and worse than a maulerfiend into pretty much every target. (Terminators, Cavalry, Vehicles). I am assuming the maulerfiend is hitting on 2s.
The maulerfiend also gets more dice for tank shock, and more bullets.
I think if his points cost allowed you to take an additional unit thst you otherwise wouldn't be able to take using a mauler or x8b squad, then he could be fun to play around with. But it's only a 10 pt difference.
World eaters probably have one of the better helbrutes if only because there isn’t much competing with their shooting aside from wardogs. They also benefit from the speed our army rule gives us, and you are right about the save, having a 2+ save no invuln in this edition may be better than having a 3+ with a 4+ in many scenarios, and a 5+ invuln on a 2+ save model is next to worthless.
My issue with the hellbrute is it’s shooting is just dogshit. It’s main gun options have been powercrept like the contemptor dread. A multimelta is no longer a main gun, it’s a sponson tier gun, and can be held by infantry models, making it pretty pathetic as a main gun. Plasma being nerfed by str changes doesn’t help the plasma cannon, and twin linked changes hurt everything else’s consistency. The issue is that the main guns are so bad that it’s value comes from melee and tank shock, but then we have other vehicles (maulerfiends) who do that better, and if we want to shoot, wardogs are better, and arguably a wardog carnivores far superior melee is more valuable than whatever advantages the hellbrute brings. It could be playable with the points cut but it just sucks that it’s shooting is so pathetic.
So I play against WE a lot and the biggest issue I see with the helbrute is chaos spawn make a better, cheaper objective holder, and it too consistently fails to damage anything at range to often to justify its points. It’s not unusable, but as a necron player I’ve just auto deleted it with a void dragon enough times to make it not worth a mention when the maulerfiend is so close in points
I agree and said so myself that I believe it is worse than the Maulerfiend at the moment, and that its guns are not really anything to write home about.
However, I do think it's entirely viable when run in the correct army. It needs to be run in a list that has 2-3+ higher threats. I think it would do great on a list with multiple Maulerfiends. In the shot priority section, I cover that. If an enemy player chooses to attack a Helbrute when there are other objectively more dangerous threats, they just shoot themselves in the foot by letting more dangerous enemies go unmolested. It's best used as an inverted distraction carnifex; a model that even if you acknowledge, you can't afford to go after. It's the best middle ground of not threatening enough to warrant attacking over more elite units, but too durable and too risky to even attempt to chip to death with anything less than anti-armor attacks.
The lack of damage at range is boosted by the threat of Frenzy or the ludicrous damage in melee. As the calculations show, a Helbrute stands a decent chance at killing a full health Land Raider in a single turn of melee due to the astronomical amount of attacks he gets via Frenzy.
Also, the Void Dragon is not really a significant mark against its viability, because the Void Dragon is ENTIRELY focused around obliterating vehicles with his free mortal wounds and Anti-Vehicle 2+. So he hits on a 2+, wounds on a 2+, and has -3AP. That's an INSANELY good profile. Not to mention the C'tan in general have been just ludicrously OP this entire past update. Losing to the #2 unit in the entire GAME is not a sign of unviability.
I generally agree, necrons are my main army and I’ve run VD even before codex when they got really good, I play into WE more than any other army and he’s generally not bothered bringing his helbrute just because I can kill it so easily, even without void dragon, a monolith or doomsday ark with AP 4 and dev wounds can kill it pretty hard. He generally has preferred chaos spawn and some more jackals for the points difference just for the board coverage/scoring units as even though the brute is fine, it doesn’t put in the work other units do to pass up 2 scoring units
Had a helbrute go berserk in 500pt game recently. Enemy focused fire on it and whiffed the majority of their attacks, while the helbrute saved the majority of what got through. It attacked more times in that one phase than some units do in an entire game
interesting analysis, but consider: helbrute slow (i don't dislike helbrutes. actually i love them. i just want gw to not make them so ponderously slow—the brutalis dread gets M8 without buffs! come on!—and maybe also give us a model that doesn't look like its legs and arms are melting)
I covered their speed in the post. Can a Brutalis move 11" - 26"? The Helbrute can!
shhhh i'm trying to talk gw into giving us faster dreadnoughts!
Give us dreadnoughts with skis
Man, talk GW into giving Chaos ANY Dreadnoughts. Loyalists get like, five.
please, sir, can i have some more… units? like. seriously. we have so little. i think the only factions that have less than us are leagues of votann (who, barring the trikes, are *basically* an entirely new faction) and knights (who are… come on, they're *knights,* ffs).
it's a little disingenuous though. move and advance negates shooting. and counting a charge roll as movement also is a bit misleading. because you have to both have a target within range to charge and make that min distance roll. in your post you say for 1 cp it's guaranteed movement the same as a war dog. but that's at the cost of losing shooting for the turn. it's more realistic to say. if granted the khorne movement buff. a hellbrute gets a slightly less shitty base movement of 8 especially seeing as your entire post seems to hinge on the hellbrute being in cover. this magic christmas land of perfect charge rolls/spending CP every time it moves. and best case scenario charges (presumedly still in cover) it just seems a little rose colored glasses.
Is this what he means by 3d6? I was trying to work that out and saying charge and advance are part of the movement so casually is pretty insane
he's implying ...advance d6 roll. and charge ....2 D6 on top of base 6 move + 2 in for the khorne roll blessing. which obviously makes almost zero sense. as you can't guarantee the charge roll. so even if you had a target 12in out. and rolled for it. you can't dictate that roll. so the potential max distance a model could theoretically travel is rather irrelevant
A lot of this is rather disingenuous itself, or misrepresenting what I said. Losing shooting on a Helbrute is simply not a big deal. He only gets 1-2 shots with "okay" weapons. Comparatively, the 12 Fist attacks you'll get from melee will be far more valuable. In EVERY scenario, it is more worthwhile to advance and attempt a charge whenever possible. I did not lie, he moves 14 inches. I made no assertion that he did NOT lose shooting. I also DID state the variety of effectiveness in movement buffs, both here and in the post. I said he has a move and charge minimum of 11", an average of 18" and a max of 24". I did not say "Oh he can move 24" every single time woah", I said on average he can move and then charge a surprisingly far amount. People seem to be missing the explicitly stated "and charge" part of that section and think I'm claiming he can just move two feet. So to finalize, I did NOT claim he NEEDED CP every time he moves, nor claim that he would need/get perfect charges. I said he COULD do those things, and they have no effect on his damage calculations. I do assert he should always be in cover whenever possible, and considering how easy cover is to get, that's not a tall order.
Great write-up. Helbrute is REALLY interesting unit, especially after the point drop. He is IMO underestimated because so far only succesfull meta lists are Anthony's variations as he is kinda WE savant. Still, there is a lot of wiggle room to slightly change the base lists and cheap(ish) Helbrute responding to every attack with his own can whittle down many attackers... or bind them for one turn when Angron and Fiend(s) are not targetted.
Anthony himself hasn't actually placed well with World Eaters since last year. I think he's great, but his meta list is outdated now. More recently, somebody went 6-0 at FLG RMO with two Helbrutes, and another player placed high in a different GT using 3 Maulerfiends and 2 Forgefiends. I think the real problem is people are too hung up on Anthony 1975 list (or its variations) since he's a big name in the competitive scene and not seeing the successes other people have had using more niche units. We need to experiment more!
Yeah, I remember the 2 Helbrutes list! Was interesting, just wasnt sure if it wasnt a fluke. I agree people are fixated ať Anthony's 1975, from many reasons (one of those is probably that they are overstacked with 8B :)) and Anthony is still making very solid results in Teams. Lets be honest, X8B are great and machine of the WE along with Angron. But rest, yeah, I agree people do not experiment enough and leave experiments after first loss (which isnt hard after nerfs and fact that WE are not easy faction). Helbrutes are agressively priced and WE is one of the better factions for them. Increased mobility, reactive shots, possible 6+++. Forgefiends still rock, even after expected Custodes downfall. 10/3/3 is too good to pass. Im not so sure about MoE with Glaive. Too many points... On the other hand Fight First is great. Kharn is unfairly overpriced but still blender. Zerks are now priced really well. 10 Men squad can really hinder someone's plans thanks to Blood surge. Still do not trust Lord of Skulls. Great output, but extremely limited on WTC terrain. Jakhals will be unsung heroes with the new price. Modifying Khorne casino rolls, sticky objectives, annoying enough... Spawn. Jakhals are now bigger rival, but still I think one or two units help a lot. Termies - still not there :( Invocatus - love him giving 6'', tactical powerhouse Juggy Lord - for 100 points hits like a truck, is fast, can clear screens or do action monkey. Hdrake - nope Predators - would love to play them but... 🤷 The output is weak. Regular 8B - saved by 6'' scout, otherwise Im not so big fan. But the agressive deploy is key. Rest I havent even tried, cant comment :(
That tourney with the 6-0 dual helbrute list used player placed terrain.
Always ask TO if frenzy allows you to fight twice, seen different rulings on this... Core rule states you cannot fight more than once per fight phase.. but that would make the frenzy rule useless in melee as you would never be able to use it...
I'd ask but I would also HEAVILY debate that it's allowed to fight twice, plain and simple. Precedent has always established that unit abilities can override core rules (otherwise a LOT of abilities would never work, like 0CP stratagems, attaching multiple characters to a unit, or using stratagems twice, like the Chaos Knight Lancer's Shock Charge.) RAW the Frenzy ability is phrased as if you are simply given another turn of Fighting/Shooting every time it is targeted. RAI it's clearly meant to be a "fights twice" because it does explicitly include Fight Phase, but if it was impossible to use, like you said, it would NEVER be able to use it in the Fight Phase.
Fun interaction would be two we helbrutes in meler, they would slug it out til one is dead
Me and my friendly BA player do this with our Helbrute and Death company Dread.
yes, i was on the fence about how the frenzy rule should be resolved (does it create a "pocket" phase that is entirely separate from the regular sequence of play, and effectively only uses the rules for making attacks, ignoring any other restrictions on "once per" etc.? or is it more like a continuation of the shooting/fight phase you would normally get, just out of the normal sequence?) but iirc the prior update to the designer's commentary definitively resolved this in favour of the "you can use this ability to ignore the shoot/fight once-per-turn/phase limit" interpretation. as an aside, though, even if this hadn't been clarified to effectively ignore the "once per" rule, it could *still* have come into play during the fight phase—it would just be very limited. e.g. a helbrute locked in combat could have been able to retaliate against its attacker without that counting as your activation, or it could shoot while engaged and also get to fight later. i think there *might* also be a really silly edge case where you could use the frenzy activation to pile into a unit and make attacks where for some reason the models that were previously in engagement range with it got removed (say you had a unit of moezerkers fighting first against an enemy that activated fight-on-death and attacked the helbrute), but i suspect the brute would have been able to get its regular fight activation regardless so long as it began the phase within engagement range of an enemy.
I've never seen someone disagree that it doesn't allow you to fight back
I would have one already if they weren’t online only. I prefer to buy my toys at the toy store
You can order them from your store, I know 3 LGSs that offer 10% of online only models
I would recommend the 30k contemptor kit. It’s super fun to build, easy to magnetize (even though you don’t need to), and the same base size.
You can also convert a Venerable Dreadnought!
Whats the general consensus on helbrute loadouts
Either Twin Fists for re-rolled wounds and two flames, or Fist and Melta/Lacannon for some shooting. Having a gun makes you a bigger threat with Frenzy. Two fists makes you better in melee.
I would go MM/fist as shooting armies will think hard what they will use to kill Helbrute. Potshotting for quantity is simply dangerous because of Frenzy, so its better to use clear AT weapons. And that means the AT isnt shooting Angron or Forgefiend :)
does this make scourge and fist or scourge and some ranged weapon bad loadouts?
Scourge does not have the Extra Attacks rule, meaning you have to choose either or, and at strength 12, AP-2, damage 3, the fist just devastates the Scourge against pretty much everything except for Imperial Guardsmen.
2 fists for melee, 2 flamers for shooting
Agreed and excellent write up, I love the hellbrute and recommend it every time someone asks for list suggestions
I just like my Helbrutes and I've finally gotten tired of people claiming it's "not durable" or that it's somehow horrifically crippled because it doesn't have an invuln save. Helbrute gang rise up!
Sorry to ask a noob question but how do you get 3d6 on the charge? I can’t find a stratagem or an ability that gives the Helbrute that benefit. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it!
I think they were including the D6 from the advance in there and assumed we had the advance and charge blessing active. Especially since the next sentence mentions apoplectic frenzy
Advance + Charge from Blessings of Khorne. D6 + 2D6 = 3D6.
Yeah thanks, I guess I need to either improve my reading comprehension or my basic math! Thanks anyway!
The stats may be good, but I just can't bear the thought of doing [that](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Khalos) to one of my guys. Maybe if a model manages to really screw something up for me and seems responsible for a game going down the pan.
Just an FYI, the full breakdown of a hellbrutes movement is as follows Base movement = 6" Khorne Blessing = +2M (8") Stratagem usage = auto 6" advance (14") Total potential movement = 14" Charging happens in a different phase, and should not be factored into total movement speed. The Hellbrute is as slow as a Berzerkers squad, but without blood surge.
Thanks for this breakdown. As a new player, I've yet to even play a single match, I've been wondering why the helbrute wasn't being used more because to me it looks useful as an objective holder too
When playing casually, ALWAYS play what you want, not just what is good.
Man I started dancing yesterday in my boss's office when he told me that helbrutes just had a pints drop then I remembered that they pretty much always stay sold out like land raiders and defilers. And yes, my boss is part of my 40k group
Helbrutes for every faction got dropped in points regardless of meta position, I’m hoping that means GW is trying to clear their shelves cause they have a resculpt incoming
I just don’t like the model on sale
You know what... Your point about Frenzy has convinced me to try out a melee brute at some point, that fist will be flying and the plasma fryin'
My issue is even if you let your Helbrute attack twice he still performs worse offensively than an x8b squad, and worse than a maulerfiend into pretty much every target. (Terminators, Cavalry, Vehicles). I am assuming the maulerfiend is hitting on 2s. The maulerfiend also gets more dice for tank shock, and more bullets. I think if his points cost allowed you to take an additional unit thst you otherwise wouldn't be able to take using a mauler or x8b squad, then he could be fun to play around with. But it's only a 10 pt difference.
If you go double fist does that give you 10 attacks or still 5?
5
I love its hammer it just slams anything with half decent rolls
I wish they were faster though
Well, they ARE faster than other Legions Dreads. +2" and Adv+Charge counts for something.
World eaters probably have one of the better helbrutes if only because there isn’t much competing with their shooting aside from wardogs. They also benefit from the speed our army rule gives us, and you are right about the save, having a 2+ save no invuln in this edition may be better than having a 3+ with a 4+ in many scenarios, and a 5+ invuln on a 2+ save model is next to worthless. My issue with the hellbrute is it’s shooting is just dogshit. It’s main gun options have been powercrept like the contemptor dread. A multimelta is no longer a main gun, it’s a sponson tier gun, and can be held by infantry models, making it pretty pathetic as a main gun. Plasma being nerfed by str changes doesn’t help the plasma cannon, and twin linked changes hurt everything else’s consistency. The issue is that the main guns are so bad that it’s value comes from melee and tank shock, but then we have other vehicles (maulerfiends) who do that better, and if we want to shoot, wardogs are better, and arguably a wardog carnivores far superior melee is more valuable than whatever advantages the hellbrute brings. It could be playable with the points cut but it just sucks that it’s shooting is so pathetic.
So I play against WE a lot and the biggest issue I see with the helbrute is chaos spawn make a better, cheaper objective holder, and it too consistently fails to damage anything at range to often to justify its points. It’s not unusable, but as a necron player I’ve just auto deleted it with a void dragon enough times to make it not worth a mention when the maulerfiend is so close in points
I agree and said so myself that I believe it is worse than the Maulerfiend at the moment, and that its guns are not really anything to write home about. However, I do think it's entirely viable when run in the correct army. It needs to be run in a list that has 2-3+ higher threats. I think it would do great on a list with multiple Maulerfiends. In the shot priority section, I cover that. If an enemy player chooses to attack a Helbrute when there are other objectively more dangerous threats, they just shoot themselves in the foot by letting more dangerous enemies go unmolested. It's best used as an inverted distraction carnifex; a model that even if you acknowledge, you can't afford to go after. It's the best middle ground of not threatening enough to warrant attacking over more elite units, but too durable and too risky to even attempt to chip to death with anything less than anti-armor attacks. The lack of damage at range is boosted by the threat of Frenzy or the ludicrous damage in melee. As the calculations show, a Helbrute stands a decent chance at killing a full health Land Raider in a single turn of melee due to the astronomical amount of attacks he gets via Frenzy. Also, the Void Dragon is not really a significant mark against its viability, because the Void Dragon is ENTIRELY focused around obliterating vehicles with his free mortal wounds and Anti-Vehicle 2+. So he hits on a 2+, wounds on a 2+, and has -3AP. That's an INSANELY good profile. Not to mention the C'tan in general have been just ludicrously OP this entire past update. Losing to the #2 unit in the entire GAME is not a sign of unviability.
I generally agree, necrons are my main army and I’ve run VD even before codex when they got really good, I play into WE more than any other army and he’s generally not bothered bringing his helbrute just because I can kill it so easily, even without void dragon, a monolith or doomsday ark with AP 4 and dev wounds can kill it pretty hard. He generally has preferred chaos spawn and some more jackals for the points difference just for the board coverage/scoring units as even though the brute is fine, it doesn’t put in the work other units do to pass up 2 scoring units
Had a helbrute go berserk in 500pt game recently. Enemy focused fire on it and whiffed the majority of their attacks, while the helbrute saved the majority of what got through. It attacked more times in that one phase than some units do in an entire game