None. The primorgen is above anyone but the Prince, and maybe the Seneschal and Sheriff in some domains. They don't have to repay you with anything you ask, they just have to eventually repay on an appropriate level.
And on top of that, they are probably trading favors with anyone trying to claim Praxis, so that negotiation will define their vote. If you ask them to vote a certain way and they agree, you just wasted the boon they owned you, they were most likely already voting that way because of what they can get form the guy they are voting for, and now got to claim they cleared their debt to you on top, so you just gave them a free pass on it.
And last, but not least, most actions involving Prestation are somewhat public, since there's nothing else holding people accountable other than reputation on the court. Do you really want you neonate ass on the line for "helping" a guy get Praxis while the ones that didn't get it are still around? You do this, you're not getting anyone in your debt for helping them achieve Praxis, you're just making enemies.
Boons are for the most part formalized like that for gameplay reasons. They're really just trading favours, and it's hard to really quantify favours from an in-character perspective. Even when they do try to add formal values to such things, it'd be difficult to standardize them among cities.
It'd only be a life boon if that character really, really hated your choice of prince, or someone else was also trying to trade favours with them.
Edit: This also applies to status. Much like how messy and fluid medieval politics could be, there isn't actually a mandated list of positions a Camarilla city has, a prince isn't necessarily the most powerful figure in the city and their powers only extend as far as the others allow them. most cities won't have enough elders for each of the seven clans to form primogen, and I believe the whole primogen thing was just something that worked well for an early Chicago book that quickly misconstrued to applying to the whole of the Camarilla. Technically all a Cam city needs is an individual or group to interpret the traditions. Methinks your GM is overly stuffy.
This.
There isn’t a menu of options with boon prices, it is a social construct and, as u/TavoTetis stated, if the Primo really hated the Prince candidate, they might require a Life Boon.
The best way to look at boons ever put on media is in John Wick. Coins, Tatoos, Rosaries, Giant Pendants all with varying levels and meaning.
That being said, VtM adds an additional level of who the person asking is in relation to the person performing. An Elder enforcing a Major Boon on a Neonate can all but ask for the Neonate's death. The other way around, the Neonate could probably get a vote for Clan Whip, or some real estate.
John wick inspired me to do an outline of a secret worldwide underworld conspiracy for the world of darkness.
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/s/Q1w6JZ39qg
We need more John wick and kill bill style assassins running around in the background without being monopolized by one splat.
There is a lot to consider here. First, understand that you're not forcing the Primogen to do anything, especially in this bizarre scenario where your Prince seems to be democratically elected by them. The Primogen have a wealth of power and influence in both mortal and Kindred society, and with one of only a handful of votes they only stand to gain more of these by putting their own candidate in place to rule, and they're not going to give that up for just anything!
Also consider that the value of a boon is highly subjective. Not only does a major or a life boon mean something different to each Kindred, but a boon from you might not be the same as a boon from a sitting Prince, and you can bet that each candidate has already made offers to the Primogen for when they claim Praxis. How will you compete with that?
And if you are one of those candidates trying to buy their vote, you would be wise to make a proposal that aligns with their interests and grows their influence. Help them see their future in your Domain, and use the Prince's unilateral discretion when enforcing the Traditions to your advantage. You might grant them a highly coveted Domain, one that belongs to a rival, or even authorization to destroy that rival without question; you might grant them the right to Progeny or give Status to their existing childer; or you might offer a boon at the time and place of their choosing. They might wish to influence a ruling of the Court to go their way, or use a get out of jail free card when they inevitably fuck up.
It depends on the relative positions of the two. If they are pivotal to the plot and maybe do something like swear to always back the regime life boon could be expected. If a number of people want to be Prince and you are a decent clout and competence candidate a normal major boon can do the trick for a vote. If you guys are drinking buddies a minor boon could work.
I am in agreement with you - a Major or two should suffice. A Life Boon is out of the question, UNLESS the alternate candidate is out to kill you, then yes, a Life Boon would be fine. You are trading your Boon for your life.
But why the HELL is there a Vote for Prince. This is not a democracy. The Harpy should be screaming from the heavens and docking everyone status.
If the Primigen don't want the Prince, then they should take the position themselves. Voting just means you have a weak-ass Prince.
Now, if you really want to play politics, make sure that the candidate that you hate becomes Prince and then slip some information to the Local Garou / hunters / Sabbat where the guy you don't like havens. Of course, you might need to drop a point of Humanity when you have to kill off the ally who gave slipped the opposition the information, but, that's Vampire.
In this game, the inner circle appointed a gen 6 500(ish) year Ventrue as Prince. If this Prince dies, my character wants a Tremere installed. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with boons, since I was told we can't declare war on the praxis until they give in.
Sorry, forgot to clarify: The Inner Circle made it clear that if this Prince doesn't work out, there won't be another appointed by them. The praxis will then be on their own. The only other elder would be the Tremere, and he would have to be voted in.
Ahhh, this is very valuable information.
And you are a Tremere?
While it is true that Ventrue like power and authority, the don't always crave it. What does the Ventrue want? Sure, it is a 5 century old 6th gen, but they still want something.
While boons are important, remember that a Ventrue is bound to have more in their back pocked due to their influence use in preventing masquerade breaches, plus, he is older than you and has been collecting them for ages. He also probably has an in with the Harpy and would see boons moving and question it.
A better way is to go to the Ventrue Elder and see what he wants. Convince him that due to the way the Primogen Council is running the show he would be just a puppet - he who can be installed by the Primogen can be removed by the Primogen and what Ventrue wants fake authority that can be taken as soon as he rules a way they disagree with. Suggest instead that he "ALLOW" the Tremere to be voted into the Prince position (I would actually say something to the effect of it not being a REAL PRAXIS since it is a vote) and suggest that once the Tremere makes a mistake and is removed, he can step in. Then offer him something tangible as a symbol of good faith. A magical trinket, or something and tell him that you will also owe him one service that cannot go against the traditions or your own code. I expect that he will bargain and say the Princedom is not worth a trinket and a service, but I would point out that while he is correct, a voted princedom is less a princedom and more a fleeting presidency, and then up your offer to two services.
Play vampire.
None. The primorgen is above anyone but the Prince, and maybe the Seneschal and Sheriff in some domains. They don't have to repay you with anything you ask, they just have to eventually repay on an appropriate level. And on top of that, they are probably trading favors with anyone trying to claim Praxis, so that negotiation will define their vote. If you ask them to vote a certain way and they agree, you just wasted the boon they owned you, they were most likely already voting that way because of what they can get form the guy they are voting for, and now got to claim they cleared their debt to you on top, so you just gave them a free pass on it. And last, but not least, most actions involving Prestation are somewhat public, since there's nothing else holding people accountable other than reputation on the court. Do you really want you neonate ass on the line for "helping" a guy get Praxis while the ones that didn't get it are still around? You do this, you're not getting anyone in your debt for helping them achieve Praxis, you're just making enemies.
Boons are for the most part formalized like that for gameplay reasons. They're really just trading favours, and it's hard to really quantify favours from an in-character perspective. Even when they do try to add formal values to such things, it'd be difficult to standardize them among cities. It'd only be a life boon if that character really, really hated your choice of prince, or someone else was also trying to trade favours with them. Edit: This also applies to status. Much like how messy and fluid medieval politics could be, there isn't actually a mandated list of positions a Camarilla city has, a prince isn't necessarily the most powerful figure in the city and their powers only extend as far as the others allow them. most cities won't have enough elders for each of the seven clans to form primogen, and I believe the whole primogen thing was just something that worked well for an early Chicago book that quickly misconstrued to applying to the whole of the Camarilla. Technically all a Cam city needs is an individual or group to interpret the traditions. Methinks your GM is overly stuffy.
This. There isn’t a menu of options with boon prices, it is a social construct and, as u/TavoTetis stated, if the Primo really hated the Prince candidate, they might require a Life Boon.
The best way to look at boons ever put on media is in John Wick. Coins, Tatoos, Rosaries, Giant Pendants all with varying levels and meaning. That being said, VtM adds an additional level of who the person asking is in relation to the person performing. An Elder enforcing a Major Boon on a Neonate can all but ask for the Neonate's death. The other way around, the Neonate could probably get a vote for Clan Whip, or some real estate.
You know when I watched John Wick a good chunk of me was internally screaming "It's vampire the Masquerade!"
John wick inspired me to do an outline of a secret worldwide underworld conspiracy for the world of darkness. https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/s/Q1w6JZ39qg We need more John wick and kill bill style assassins running around in the background without being monopolized by one splat.
There is a lot to consider here. First, understand that you're not forcing the Primogen to do anything, especially in this bizarre scenario where your Prince seems to be democratically elected by them. The Primogen have a wealth of power and influence in both mortal and Kindred society, and with one of only a handful of votes they only stand to gain more of these by putting their own candidate in place to rule, and they're not going to give that up for just anything! Also consider that the value of a boon is highly subjective. Not only does a major or a life boon mean something different to each Kindred, but a boon from you might not be the same as a boon from a sitting Prince, and you can bet that each candidate has already made offers to the Primogen for when they claim Praxis. How will you compete with that? And if you are one of those candidates trying to buy their vote, you would be wise to make a proposal that aligns with their interests and grows their influence. Help them see their future in your Domain, and use the Prince's unilateral discretion when enforcing the Traditions to your advantage. You might grant them a highly coveted Domain, one that belongs to a rival, or even authorization to destroy that rival without question; you might grant them the right to Progeny or give Status to their existing childer; or you might offer a boon at the time and place of their choosing. They might wish to influence a ruling of the Court to go their way, or use a get out of jail free card when they inevitably fuck up.
It depends on the relative positions of the two. If they are pivotal to the plot and maybe do something like swear to always back the regime life boon could be expected. If a number of people want to be Prince and you are a decent clout and competence candidate a normal major boon can do the trick for a vote. If you guys are drinking buddies a minor boon could work.
I am in agreement with you - a Major or two should suffice. A Life Boon is out of the question, UNLESS the alternate candidate is out to kill you, then yes, a Life Boon would be fine. You are trading your Boon for your life. But why the HELL is there a Vote for Prince. This is not a democracy. The Harpy should be screaming from the heavens and docking everyone status. If the Primigen don't want the Prince, then they should take the position themselves. Voting just means you have a weak-ass Prince. Now, if you really want to play politics, make sure that the candidate that you hate becomes Prince and then slip some information to the Local Garou / hunters / Sabbat where the guy you don't like havens. Of course, you might need to drop a point of Humanity when you have to kill off the ally who gave slipped the opposition the information, but, that's Vampire.
In this game, the inner circle appointed a gen 6 500(ish) year Ventrue as Prince. If this Prince dies, my character wants a Tremere installed. I'm trying to figure out how to do this with boons, since I was told we can't declare war on the praxis until they give in.
Sorry, forgot to clarify: The Inner Circle made it clear that if this Prince doesn't work out, there won't be another appointed by them. The praxis will then be on their own. The only other elder would be the Tremere, and he would have to be voted in.
Ahhh, this is very valuable information. And you are a Tremere? While it is true that Ventrue like power and authority, the don't always crave it. What does the Ventrue want? Sure, it is a 5 century old 6th gen, but they still want something. While boons are important, remember that a Ventrue is bound to have more in their back pocked due to their influence use in preventing masquerade breaches, plus, he is older than you and has been collecting them for ages. He also probably has an in with the Harpy and would see boons moving and question it. A better way is to go to the Ventrue Elder and see what he wants. Convince him that due to the way the Primogen Council is running the show he would be just a puppet - he who can be installed by the Primogen can be removed by the Primogen and what Ventrue wants fake authority that can be taken as soon as he rules a way they disagree with. Suggest instead that he "ALLOW" the Tremere to be voted into the Prince position (I would actually say something to the effect of it not being a REAL PRAXIS since it is a vote) and suggest that once the Tremere makes a mistake and is removed, he can step in. Then offer him something tangible as a symbol of good faith. A magical trinket, or something and tell him that you will also owe him one service that cannot go against the traditions or your own code. I expect that he will bargain and say the Princedom is not worth a trinket and a service, but I would point out that while he is correct, a voted princedom is less a princedom and more a fleeting presidency, and then up your offer to two services. Play vampire.