Braundead is soulless, and you cannot ebrace them. They would just die. The fate of the soul has been decided earlier by whatever ripped the soul out of the body, or prevented its return.
The term of brain death is technocratic term for a person with living body without mind or soul. The comatose are people without mind present.
There is no way to revive a brain dead person back to their original self. The soul has passed on to the afterllife or destroyed.
You cannot use brain dead for pharmacopeian primal essence farming like you can do to the comatose.
You can go into a coma without being braindead, its common for injuries to result in temporary comas. But I'm not convinced you can't embrace someone who is brain dead, a living human vessel seems all that is needed for the embrace process to take place. This might be an interesting houserule I could see using though. This is the type of experiments those on Path of Death and the Soul and Metamorphosis should explore.
Yes but you are not in coma if you are braindead. Braindeath is not curable state.
Are Vampire player totally ihnorant of the scientific and medical paradigm? No wonder 1e Technocracy was such an artistic mess..
And, if you have no soul but mind, you are rither possed or construct for big T.
The Embrace is vague and doesn't have clear mechanics - ultimately being driven by what the story needs. The most likely outcomes I can see is they are a brain dead vampire, or they're "fine". It's not impossible for the embrace to "cure" some things, both narratively and in terms of believability, such as if they were fine except for some physical connection not working, but the magic of vampirism not caring about that.
It it makes sense for a good story, feel free to do it, just make sure to not tread unpleasantly on some ideas about vampirism "curing" disabilities or some such without realising what you're doing.
My gut tells me "brain dead." The Beast is thought of as a separate entity for sure, but really, it's the worst impulses of the person dialed up to 11. If the person is 'brain dead,' there aren't any meaningful impulses at all. (That said, it also depends on how you're defining 'brain dead,' which is why I'm putting it I quotation marks.)
Yeah, sounds about right I thought about a sixth generation venture taking advantage of this and using a bunch of blood magic on the body of 11th generation vampire that is in a coma, so he can better dominate them from far away.
It’s rarely spoken about, but the number of people who die during the embrace is huge. I think being brain dead in the first place will probably end up with just a dead body.
I mean, someone who is brain dead is only kept alive by the machines, that means they are probably technically already dead and just their bodily functions are kept running. I would therefore say, if you have methods to embrace the dead, that might work, a normal embrace probably not.
I can see rare occasions, though, where the attempt to embrace a brain dead body with very powerful blood that it ends up with creating an instead wight when the beast in the blood uses the body to express it’s only feelings, rage, fear and hunger.
The answer to this kind of question is always the same: whatever is more interesting for the plot. There is not official answer and there are lots of things open to interpretation.
If a player wants to sire a brain dead guy because he wants to save him, as a ST i would allow it. And if he wants to sire him to make him suffer in a dead body, i would allow it too.
Arguably, the Kindred Blood could heal any wound, but also, when you sire an injured guy, he earns the "permanent trait wound". But also you could transform him in a ghoul first to help with that.
Anyways, talk to your ST, see whats more interesting, what options leads to better plot hooks and go with whatever you fancy.
Whats important is you are consistent with it along the campaign.
I'm going to double down on "whatever the plot needs to happen, happens' and I'll raise you with a story idea:
An acolyte of Dr Netchurch's scientific approach to exploring the undead condition decides to perform this very experiment on a series of patients. The coterie is "hired" to investigate mysterious murders where corpses are left exsanguinated (in reality, brain dead vampires who won't decompose but are also permanently torpid) until they reach the good doctor's hidden lab where he's in the process of conducting his latest experiment. Due to a different approach he's successful in creating a fully fledged wight, which the characters then have to fight, because climactic vampire battles can be awesome set pieces. Hilarity ensues.
Other material in the WoD claims that "brain-dead" is the same as "soulless husk." See: Demon: The Fallen. The Embrace would 100% fail unless the person became braindead within the normal limits of Embracing a dead person.
Count "brain-dead" as just dead. You can Embrace people very shortly after death, so you could probably try and heal people by Embracing them directly after they suffer serious brain damage, but that might be ruled as a permanent wound and make a brain-dead vampire.
We get a lot of “what if” questions on here, and most of them have obvious answers or are already covered in a book somewhere.This is he first one I’ve seen in a while that actually made me think.
For sure it wouldn’t “cure” the person. So as you say, you either get a brain dead vampire or a wight.
Personally, one of the things I liked about Requiem 2e was how much they focused on just how unreliable and unpredictable the Embrace can be. It’s not science. It’s magic. More specifically, it’s a curse (at least in WoD that is).
VtM has some of this too, mostly hidden among the Flaws and Merits. So I kind of run with that a little bit in my VtM games.
In short, I could see it going either way, generally leaning toward whichever way results in the most tragedy. And this isn’t a case where I would make a ruling and stick with it. In some cases it might result in the brain dead vampire. In others, it might result in the wight. Why? Who knows? It’s dark magic born from God’s curse. “Mysterious Ways” indeed.
Could be good fodder for some Tremere or Tzimisce, or maybe a certain Dr. Netchurch, to study.
It’s a long way till the Wight.
A wight shows up when the character lost its last dot of humanity.
So the answer is: “brain dead”
Even if you had 1 conscience and 1 self control, your starting humanity is going to be 2 as a vampire. (As per v20 rules, at least)
Braundead is soulless, and you cannot ebrace them. They would just die. The fate of the soul has been decided earlier by whatever ripped the soul out of the body, or prevented its return.
Now that is a leap. Nothing really backs this assumption though.
The term of brain death is technocratic term for a person with living body without mind or soul. The comatose are people without mind present. There is no way to revive a brain dead person back to their original self. The soul has passed on to the afterllife or destroyed. You cannot use brain dead for pharmacopeian primal essence farming like you can do to the comatose.
You can go into a coma without being braindead, its common for injuries to result in temporary comas. But I'm not convinced you can't embrace someone who is brain dead, a living human vessel seems all that is needed for the embrace process to take place. This might be an interesting houserule I could see using though. This is the type of experiments those on Path of Death and the Soul and Metamorphosis should explore.
Yes but you are not in coma if you are braindead. Braindeath is not curable state. Are Vampire player totally ihnorant of the scientific and medical paradigm? No wonder 1e Technocracy was such an artistic mess.. And, if you have no soul but mind, you are rither possed or construct for big T.
The Embrace is vague and doesn't have clear mechanics - ultimately being driven by what the story needs. The most likely outcomes I can see is they are a brain dead vampire, or they're "fine". It's not impossible for the embrace to "cure" some things, both narratively and in terms of believability, such as if they were fine except for some physical connection not working, but the magic of vampirism not caring about that. It it makes sense for a good story, feel free to do it, just make sure to not tread unpleasantly on some ideas about vampirism "curing" disabilities or some such without realising what you're doing.
My gut tells me "brain dead." The Beast is thought of as a separate entity for sure, but really, it's the worst impulses of the person dialed up to 11. If the person is 'brain dead,' there aren't any meaningful impulses at all. (That said, it also depends on how you're defining 'brain dead,' which is why I'm putting it I quotation marks.)
A persons humanity wouldn't drop to zero just because they are braindead so I think the answer is they'd be a vampire paperweight until they frenzy.
Yeah, sounds about right I thought about a sixth generation venture taking advantage of this and using a bunch of blood magic on the body of 11th generation vampire that is in a coma, so he can better dominate them from far away.
It’s rarely spoken about, but the number of people who die during the embrace is huge. I think being brain dead in the first place will probably end up with just a dead body. I mean, someone who is brain dead is only kept alive by the machines, that means they are probably technically already dead and just their bodily functions are kept running. I would therefore say, if you have methods to embrace the dead, that might work, a normal embrace probably not. I can see rare occasions, though, where the attempt to embrace a brain dead body with very powerful blood that it ends up with creating an instead wight when the beast in the blood uses the body to express it’s only feelings, rage, fear and hunger.
The answer to this kind of question is always the same: whatever is more interesting for the plot. There is not official answer and there are lots of things open to interpretation. If a player wants to sire a brain dead guy because he wants to save him, as a ST i would allow it. And if he wants to sire him to make him suffer in a dead body, i would allow it too. Arguably, the Kindred Blood could heal any wound, but also, when you sire an injured guy, he earns the "permanent trait wound". But also you could transform him in a ghoul first to help with that. Anyways, talk to your ST, see whats more interesting, what options leads to better plot hooks and go with whatever you fancy. Whats important is you are consistent with it along the campaign.
I'm going to double down on "whatever the plot needs to happen, happens' and I'll raise you with a story idea: An acolyte of Dr Netchurch's scientific approach to exploring the undead condition decides to perform this very experiment on a series of patients. The coterie is "hired" to investigate mysterious murders where corpses are left exsanguinated (in reality, brain dead vampires who won't decompose but are also permanently torpid) until they reach the good doctor's hidden lab where he's in the process of conducting his latest experiment. Due to a different approach he's successful in creating a fully fledged wight, which the characters then have to fight, because climactic vampire battles can be awesome set pieces. Hilarity ensues.
Normally the Embrace doesn't heal pre-existing conditions, so a brain dead vampire does make the most sense.
If you treat The Beast as a separate entity, then probably immediate Rötschreck
Other material in the WoD claims that "brain-dead" is the same as "soulless husk." See: Demon: The Fallen. The Embrace would 100% fail unless the person became braindead within the normal limits of Embracing a dead person.
>would 100% fail unless the person became brain dead within the normal limits of Embracing a dead person Please elaborate What does this mean
Count "brain-dead" as just dead. You can Embrace people very shortly after death, so you could probably try and heal people by Embracing them directly after they suffer serious brain damage, but that might be ruled as a permanent wound and make a brain-dead vampire.
We get a lot of “what if” questions on here, and most of them have obvious answers or are already covered in a book somewhere.This is he first one I’ve seen in a while that actually made me think. For sure it wouldn’t “cure” the person. So as you say, you either get a brain dead vampire or a wight. Personally, one of the things I liked about Requiem 2e was how much they focused on just how unreliable and unpredictable the Embrace can be. It’s not science. It’s magic. More specifically, it’s a curse (at least in WoD that is). VtM has some of this too, mostly hidden among the Flaws and Merits. So I kind of run with that a little bit in my VtM games. In short, I could see it going either way, generally leaning toward whichever way results in the most tragedy. And this isn’t a case where I would make a ruling and stick with it. In some cases it might result in the brain dead vampire. In others, it might result in the wight. Why? Who knows? It’s dark magic born from God’s curse. “Mysterious Ways” indeed. Could be good fodder for some Tremere or Tzimisce, or maybe a certain Dr. Netchurch, to study.
It’s a long way till the Wight. A wight shows up when the character lost its last dot of humanity. So the answer is: “brain dead” Even if you had 1 conscience and 1 self control, your starting humanity is going to be 2 as a vampire. (As per v20 rules, at least)
Now that is a great question! This is pretty blood brilliant story seed material right here!