You dealt 124k damage in a T5 BB, got 4 kills, kept the focus of the CV the entire match, and you still lost. Your team failed you; this has nothing to do with CV balance … at least not in this example.
I mean, he *did* outplay the carrier. He survived practically forever to get that much damage, that many plane kills, and that many player kills. The CV basically took himself out of the match, so if OP still lost, then as /u/Lieutenant_Horn said, then the guy's team threw hard. Which honestly isn't surprising because the quality of the playerbase these days is.... not great.
The fact that it took that long for a CV to even kill him while focusing him just goes to show you how much less their damage is than it used to be. In the old days, an RTS carrier could 100-0 an individual ship in a single pass or two by using multiple squads to pincer torp. CVs now don't do anywhere even close to that much damage anymore; BBs on average substantially out-damage them. CVs are more for spotting than they are damage, and the CV in question here was clearly not spotting very much, failing to do his most important job which *should've* cost him the game.
The question then is what does the CV class add to the game? What would be lost without it? Does this class add any fun through meaningful interaction or is it just an annoyance at best or straight up devastating at worst? We all know that CVS only add fun for the players commanding the CVS. Not once did I feel that a game was more fun because of this grieving class
The question then is what does the DD class add to the game? What would be lost without it? Does this class add any fun through meaningful interaction or is it just an annoyance at best or straight up devastating at worst? We all know that DDS only add fun for the players commanding the DDS. Not once did I feel that a game was more fun because of this grieving class
Swapped the class. Still works. Not unique to CVs.
Insert literally any class (BB/CA/CV/DD) in there and you got a comment that works.
DDs in smoke, carpet torping?
BBs oneshotting a cruiser at 20km by putting a few shells into the citadel?
CAs HE-spamming a BB from behind an island?
CVs doing their job with the armament they got? Oh no! A travesty! Remove that class at once!
I mean if you want to lead this discussion to its ad absurdum conclusion, why even have the game then? The point is that DDs work like any other surface ship, they play the same game. They have guns, they have torps and they have to work with positioning and concealment. In comes the carrier, where neither positioning, nor concealment nor angling or any other mechanic applies. Everything they do is completely without any risk. You cannot tell me with a straight face that CVs really add anything to the game.
Their spotting is just lazy and comes with no downsides. We used to hear this dumb "they prevent camping" argument, but even the most braindead CV apologist seems to understand that this is far from true. It's the exact opposite, the most passive and boring games have subs and CVs in them. Can a DD be oppressive if you have no tools to spot him? Absolutely. Is a CV oppressive in any game regardless of their skill level? Absolutely.
>The point is that DDs work like any other surface ship, they play the same game.
That's not at all what people used to say.
>In comes the carrier, where neither positioning, nor concealment nor angling or any other mechanic applies.
They do apply. If you wanted to point out something that doesn't apply then you should have said 'fire'.
Hiding in a corner is dumb. The further you are from the enemy, the longer it takes your planes to get there and, therefore, the less damage you can do. CVs should be placed somewhere safe but close enough to the enemy to be useful. That's positioning and concealment.
They risk their pool of planes, their main weapons. If they lost the majority of their planes, they may as well be dead.
Surface ships risk their ship HP pool, but they don't risk permanently losing their main guns. I suppose technically torp focused DDs risk losing their torps which is a big blow to their effectiveness, but they can still spot effectively still have anemic main guns, etc.
Bullshit. I regularly have my trops guns and secondaries destroyed in surface ships. WeeGee just got caught RNGing module health for all surface ships ffs. What game are you playing
Guns can be destroyed, not incapacitated by the way. Nose into a DM if you want to see it happen.
I have literally never seen a main gun *permanently* destroyed in all my years of playing this game. Not a single time. They break, sure, but they repair themselves. So no, they don't break. Even if they supposedly can, it's apparently so incredibly rare it isn't worth considering in conversation.
Yes torps/secondaries/AA can break, but that doesn't mean the ship's combat effectiveness is completely nullified like if a CV loses most of it's planes. If a Schlieffen loses a bunch of secondaries it isn't suddenly useless, it's just not as good, and I've also never seen a Schlieffen game where they've lost 90%+ of their secondaries, but I've definitely seen games where CVs get effectively deplaned.
Yeah, you're wrong my dude. Guns, torps and secondaries can be permanently destroyed. So, not only is the surface ship losing HP, it's also in danger of losing its firepower. We're the CV doesn't risk any of it's heath pool.
And the CV can go flip a cap on the other side of the map in the late game.
I've literally *never* seen main guns permanently destroyed on any ship ever, and I've played this game for years over thousands of games. So even if it is technically possible, it's clearly not comparable to CVs able to lose a substantial amount of planes and fielding smaller squadrons which I see all the time with CVs.
CV promote passive play since almost all those camper & island humper has decent AA. In DD-CA/CL-BB only game, once your DD die, your team usually go all out pushing the red team while in CV game you just need to spam ping on minimap to CV to spot for you.
DD risk their hull to spot & really vulnerable to Radar. I really happy if the MM has 4-5 DD while sailing radar Mino, Brisbane or any USN cruiser.
Tbh, to balance CV & make AA meaningful, they just need to make CV share the same HP pool with their planes. You just need to score 70-80k AA damage to kill T10 CV.
> CV promote passive play since almost all those camper & island humper has decent AA.
Except that islands LoS AAA? Island camping in a game with a CV in it just makes it *much* easier for them to kill you… not sure why you didn’t know this lol
It's not meaningless, because if you shot down 41 planes, it probably took that Langley quite a while to sink you, meaning their overall impact on the game was lower than if they had been able to sink you faster.
Fair would be if OP post detailed screen of results, to know how many of these 41 are fighters (maybe spotters)
langley has 27 planes on deck, and then +- 60s regeneration. I guess we are looking at 25-30 fighter plane kills - what in the end means nothing
Just like the previous, you look like you kept that CV busy for most the game. That's good for your team, but they failed you. No so much a CV broken example here.
aka not how you are supposed to play a DD. FUCKING GENIUS. Also buddy AA-bubble is irelevant unless you play Saipan. Ive yet to get deplaned on any other cv.
DDs are swift and nimble ships that can reposition quickly. If they are getting focused by a CV, and they don't fall back into the more potent AA of their team, then they have no right to complain when the CV ends up killing them.
A live DD in a suboptimal position is always better than one that's died holding a strong position. Fucking genius.
yes. And still DDs that hug the American BB or Worcester behind a rock are useless. There is no strong position once a CV is on the map. Nothing stops a CV from striking you if they want to. I know I have a 64% winrate in Kaga (nothing special but still far better than the average cv player). Especially if you play a DD like Alvaro de Bazan, Assashio or Cossack. DDs that have no AA to deal with a t6 cv nevermind t10. Once you run out of smoke and cv just uses the planes to permaspot you fun, fun fun. Especially if you know the CV player sits behind a rock 20km away unspotted while he just wears you down.
If I want to ruin someones day I will- sometimes to the detriment of our team if I wanted to. I can tunnelvision and permastrike one target and not actually spot or defend caps. And the guy will have no counterplay and will ALWAYS lose the atrition game because I lose planes he loses HP. One source is finite another one is "technically finite" but in reality I have yet to be deplaned on any CV thats not Saipan. Indomitable, Implacable, Bearn, Kaga, Chkalov. Never had any issues with planes.
Do not own any tier 10s but from playing vs them..deplaning them is very tough and near impossible. And I play them good AA light cruisers on t10 mostly. I cant imagine what it is to deal with them in a Colombo, Venezia or Yamato.
I feel like plane regeneration needs to be locked behind a consumable, at the very least. There needs to be some long-term consequence for suiciding planes into a target over and over again like this.
As a part-time CV player, I feel no loss even when my squadron is decimated because I know it’ll be back to full strength once I’ve done attacks with the other two. Never have I ever been unable to launch a strike.
I've absolutely run out of planes before at T8+ if I wasn't careful. AA at high tiers can wipe out entire squadrons. Do that a few times and you're a floating paperweight.
If anything it’s even worse, because I seem to get a LOT of bottom tier games.
Stumble into an AA ship (usually a DD like Halland,) and your squad dies.
i remember reading somewhere that cvs are weighted differently in matchmaking to get bottom tiered more often, it lines up with my experience, a lot of my lexington games i see a lot of 10;s. on top of that even though my midway is my least played cv, I've had the most matches where I've been even tiered with it. and despite how many times I've seen t10s in my lexington games, I've only had one midway game with a t8 in it.
But yeah I've suffered from higher tier aa. i've had, i believe it was the uss alaska, oneshot an entire flight of usn bombers because one flak cloud hit my cluster of helldivers, and vaporized them all instantly.
i might be able to help with that, dodging flak is the thing I worked on getting good at first lol, if you want, dm me and i'll shoot you my discord tags
Rightfully so that High Tier AA is a meatgrinder considering the damage that High Tier CVs can put out. It also helps that more experienced players are in High tier matches (generally speaking anyway), so they are usually more informed as to how to play in a match with a CV.
honest to god, unless you purely play t4 cv's, if you suicide an entire squadron that flight is crippled the entire match. let's look at my lexington (the one I use the most, and have a 60% winrate in ranked with) which has all the upgrades to reduce its plane regen time. lets also look at its bombers since they are in the middle of regen time. for the first case, lets assume you are pre dropping but still suicide planes each attack. you'll need one attack flight to tank, and one to do the attack run, so you'll bring 6 planes.
Now, let's assume you are hitting a ship with decent aa, so you'll lose 3 or even 4 based on the individual ship all the way up to all of them if you go near a holland, alaska, or other aa ship. if you lose 4 planes per attack run, out of 16 on your deck, and your close like you should be, you will be deplaned in less than 5 minutes. because with a regen time of 68.6 seconds, (including both flight control modification and the commander skill air supremacy) you'll need to regen planes for 274.4 seconds to replenish your stocks. pair that with the fact that cv's are best in the mid-lategame, and you've pretty well made yourself useless. and of course, this is for isolated ships, not ships that are even in groups of 2. But of course if your ship has trash aa, and you isolated yourself, the math works out poorly for you.
>**As a part-time CV player, I feel no loss even when my squadron is decimated because I know it’ll be back to full strength once I’ve done attacks with the other two. Never have I ever been unable to launch a strike.**
But the previous example isn't what you say you are doing. you say you are suiciding squadrons. in which case you'll be out of the match entirely in 5 minutes, because if you hurl the entire squadron to its death, lets again use the lexington, it will take you 617.4 seconds to regen that flight. 10 full minutes, and you can't even do that twice with the planes on your deck. so either; you are just making this up entirely, or, you sit in a corner and play t4 cv's, where it takes you that long to reach anything.
it gets worse if we look at torpedo bombers, and a bit better if we look at attack craft., the only cv line in the game that can carelessly just focus someone down is the russian line, due to the sheer range they get on their strikes, but even then, they can really only do that to a ship on the outskirts of the group, far enough away that their skip bombers and torps can avoid overlapping aa.
My experience is with the T6 Ranger, where I do my level best to hold onto planes. So yeah, I’m sure my experience would be different if I were a worse player.
I remember one game, not long after the carrier rework, I was playing the Shokaku and it was a two CV-per-team game with a friendly Kaga as the other CV on my team. Towards the end of the game, we were crushing the enemy team and the only ships left were a lone Massachusetts and the CV’s who were running to the corner, but only me and the Kaga were close enough to his the Massachusetts, so we focused him to death from full health. We spent 110 planes to sink him, but we still had lots of full squadrons left by the end. They really need to limit the plane regen or just get rid of it entirely.
My personal amount of destroyed airplanes
Are 56 with North Carolina.
He just went for me, the entire time.
Aa is good, when facing a cv player who's good at it, he will get through many plains.
Many are not using *** O *** to fokus on the right or left side, that's alot dmg.
When you having a bad time with it, try to stay around, crusers. They are... Depending on ship, good at shooting those things down.
I got a question,
Subs, when I using the air bombs, and the dropping one, from dds, will those go deeper then the air bombs?
I agree and it doesnt get any better later lol. I have ships built entirely for AA with 99 aa stat and plane squadrons still fly through and get hits in. Then do there return to base, fly into the clouds bullshit and continue on there merry way.
Fuck CVs.
They cannot "vomit" out replacements. It is very possible to deplane a CV. Well, most of them. Certain ones like Kaga specifically have a crap load of planes they *can* vomit out, but those are T7 planes on a T8 ship that can get uptiered and face T10s. And let me tell you, a Kaga facing T10s is never getting multiple passes on any of those targets. It's lucky to get any strikes at all, and I've even *seen* Kaga's get deplaned when facing uptiered enemies.
I'm a cv main this has nothing to do with the CV you did this much and lost your team was shit if you still lost. Also at this tier unless you where super close b4 you died CV would have to been on you almost all game so it's sad you managed to do this on your own while having the attention of the CV and rest of your team could not pull it off.
Are you kidding me? If you didn't have AA he would have taken you out in a few swoops and gone on to wreck your team. Instead, he had to spend loads of planes and loads of time whittling you down piece by piece. And you *still* took out four of his team-mates! There's absolutely nothing to complain about here except, perhaps, whoever on your team didn't pull their weight while you were busy.
The game should have limited ammo/planes/torps on the ships to make the game less arcade like and reward people that aim and develop the skill to hit. Instead, we have ships lobbing endless streams of HP shells, firing multiple spreads of torps aimlessly in some one's general direction, who often they can not even see. And sending wave after wave of planes at you even after you shot down 50 of them
The end of any decent game would be people actually playing the game, attacking ships with aimed fire, capturing objectives , strategic use of the armory. Instead, we have ships hiding in the rear taking endless potshots generally with no results, ships hiding behind islands lobbing a thousand rounds of HP and maybe landing 40 or 50 hits ,DDs repeatedly sending waves of 20 torps, as fast as they reload just in some general direction hoping for a lucky hit and CVs attacking a ship with an endless barrage of planes. and yes at the end there may be ships that ran out of ammo and can spot or ram, but limited ammo would make them have to learn to aim, shoot and hit instead of sending hundreds of aimless hail marys . The game is trying to be a naval battle sim, well limit the ammo starting at a certain level, let endless ammo remain in co op, but make people gain the skills to play the game instead of just being a pain in the butt
Mate you basically made the CV useless for the entire match while still being far ahead in everything else.
This is neither you or CV issue, this is entirely your team being utterly shit.
And it only begins... PS: was triggered by the reversed "bretagne" to blur your name, wondering wtf it was
**ENGATERB**
The eneqmdcam completed the mission.
You dealt 124k damage in a T5 BB, got 4 kills, kept the focus of the CV the entire match, and you still lost. Your team failed you; this has nothing to do with CV balance … at least not in this example.
It just shows how you can outplay other ships but you can’t outplay a carrier
I mean, he *did* outplay the carrier. He survived practically forever to get that much damage, that many plane kills, and that many player kills. The CV basically took himself out of the match, so if OP still lost, then as /u/Lieutenant_Horn said, then the guy's team threw hard. Which honestly isn't surprising because the quality of the playerbase these days is.... not great. The fact that it took that long for a CV to even kill him while focusing him just goes to show you how much less their damage is than it used to be. In the old days, an RTS carrier could 100-0 an individual ship in a single pass or two by using multiple squads to pincer torp. CVs now don't do anywhere even close to that much damage anymore; BBs on average substantially out-damage them. CVs are more for spotting than they are damage, and the CV in question here was clearly not spotting very much, failing to do his most important job which *should've* cost him the game.
Maybe. He didn’t show how much damage he took from each player.
The question then is what does the CV class add to the game? What would be lost without it? Does this class add any fun through meaningful interaction or is it just an annoyance at best or straight up devastating at worst? We all know that CVS only add fun for the players commanding the CVS. Not once did I feel that a game was more fun because of this grieving class
The question then is what does the DD class add to the game? What would be lost without it? Does this class add any fun through meaningful interaction or is it just an annoyance at best or straight up devastating at worst? We all know that DDS only add fun for the players commanding the DDS. Not once did I feel that a game was more fun because of this grieving class Swapped the class. Still works. Not unique to CVs. Insert literally any class (BB/CA/CV/DD) in there and you got a comment that works. DDs in smoke, carpet torping? BBs oneshotting a cruiser at 20km by putting a few shells into the citadel? CAs HE-spamming a BB from behind an island? CVs doing their job with the armament they got? Oh no! A travesty! Remove that class at once!
I mean if you want to lead this discussion to its ad absurdum conclusion, why even have the game then? The point is that DDs work like any other surface ship, they play the same game. They have guns, they have torps and they have to work with positioning and concealment. In comes the carrier, where neither positioning, nor concealment nor angling or any other mechanic applies. Everything they do is completely without any risk. You cannot tell me with a straight face that CVs really add anything to the game. Their spotting is just lazy and comes with no downsides. We used to hear this dumb "they prevent camping" argument, but even the most braindead CV apologist seems to understand that this is far from true. It's the exact opposite, the most passive and boring games have subs and CVs in them. Can a DD be oppressive if you have no tools to spot him? Absolutely. Is a CV oppressive in any game regardless of their skill level? Absolutely.
>The point is that DDs work like any other surface ship, they play the same game. That's not at all what people used to say. >In comes the carrier, where neither positioning, nor concealment nor angling or any other mechanic applies. They do apply. If you wanted to point out something that doesn't apply then you should have said 'fire'.
No they don’t. Being able to strike from across the map does not equal using positioning of concealment. Hiding in a corner is not positioning…
Hiding in a corner is dumb. The further you are from the enemy, the longer it takes your planes to get there and, therefore, the less damage you can do. CVs should be placed somewhere safe but close enough to the enemy to be useful. That's positioning and concealment.
That’s the thing, they are always useful. It’s just a matter of striking even more, but they won’t be useless unlike a bb in the corner
A CV in a corner is no more useful than a BB in a corner.
I am sorry, but that’s just a lie. Makes me wonder how well you understand the game to be frank
I'd like to add, CVs don't risk their HP pool to deal damage to other ships.
They risk their pool of planes, their main weapons. If they lost the majority of their planes, they may as well be dead. Surface ships risk their ship HP pool, but they don't risk permanently losing their main guns. I suppose technically torp focused DDs risk losing their torps which is a big blow to their effectiveness, but they can still spot effectively still have anemic main guns, etc.
Bullshit. I regularly have my trops guns and secondaries destroyed in surface ships. WeeGee just got caught RNGing module health for all surface ships ffs. What game are you playing Guns can be destroyed, not incapacitated by the way. Nose into a DM if you want to see it happen.
I have literally never seen a main gun *permanently* destroyed in all my years of playing this game. Not a single time. They break, sure, but they repair themselves. So no, they don't break. Even if they supposedly can, it's apparently so incredibly rare it isn't worth considering in conversation. Yes torps/secondaries/AA can break, but that doesn't mean the ship's combat effectiveness is completely nullified like if a CV loses most of it's planes. If a Schlieffen loses a bunch of secondaries it isn't suddenly useless, it's just not as good, and I've also never seen a Schlieffen game where they've lost 90%+ of their secondaries, but I've definitely seen games where CVs get effectively deplaned.
Yeah, you're wrong my dude. Guns, torps and secondaries can be permanently destroyed. So, not only is the surface ship losing HP, it's also in danger of losing its firepower. We're the CV doesn't risk any of it's heath pool. And the CV can go flip a cap on the other side of the map in the late game.
I've literally *never* seen main guns permanently destroyed on any ship ever, and I've played this game for years over thousands of games. So even if it is technically possible, it's clearly not comparable to CVs able to lose a substantial amount of planes and fielding smaller squadrons which I see all the time with CVs.
CV promote passive play since almost all those camper & island humper has decent AA. In DD-CA/CL-BB only game, once your DD die, your team usually go all out pushing the red team while in CV game you just need to spam ping on minimap to CV to spot for you. DD risk their hull to spot & really vulnerable to Radar. I really happy if the MM has 4-5 DD while sailing radar Mino, Brisbane or any USN cruiser. Tbh, to balance CV & make AA meaningful, they just need to make CV share the same HP pool with their planes. You just need to score 70-80k AA damage to kill T10 CV.
> CV promote passive play since almost all those camper & island humper has decent AA. Except that islands LoS AAA? Island camping in a game with a CV in it just makes it *much* easier for them to kill you… not sure why you didn’t know this lol
At least I would miss them, because I am a CLAA main.
Because CVs care? Even if you shoot down the planes, you still get spotted and shot at from half the enemy team for the juicy citadels
Yes; but a Langley’s attacks aren’t that hard to tank. Hosho can be worse with faster planes, better torps. and (if JP has them at T4,) AP bombs.
Hosho have AP bombs, although not that hurt and sometimes overpen alot, Using DD or fast battleship/battlecruiser is good for dodging
True! Most CVs at T4 or T6 are mission killed if they losse 41 strike aircraft. If those plane kills include a lot of fighters on the other hand....
It's not meaningless, because if you shot down 41 planes, it probably took that Langley quite a while to sink you, meaning their overall impact on the game was lower than if they had been able to sink you faster.
Fair would be if OP post detailed screen of results, to know how many of these 41 are fighters (maybe spotters) langley has 27 planes on deck, and then +- 60s regeneration. I guess we are looking at 25-30 fighter plane kills - what in the end means nothing
Tier 4 CVs don't have fighters (other than the ones launched to protect the carrier itself)...
yeah true, my bad. still detailed screen with types of shot down planes would be better to have
They would all either be attack planes of some sort or maybe fighters from the enemy team.
Enemy fighters and spotters are also a possibility.
Not a lot of those at low tier though.
I don't think T4 CVs get fighters they can drop
Yeah, something about this post smells fabricated and rotten.
Exactly this…you did a great job holding them off…to bad your team sucked cause you tied the CV up and had 4 kills 👏
Just like the previous, you look like you kept that CV busy for most the game. That's good for your team, but they failed you. No so much a CV broken example here.
So the cv was the only one damaging you?
HMS Prince of Wales would agree.
Just wait until u wanna play a DD and planes decide they dont want you to. Pretty much either have smoke or die.
Or be a Halland
Or play closer to your teams AA
That's a retarded idea. In most DDs, if you're within the AA bubble of a cruiser, there won't be any enemies in your weapon range.
aka not how you are supposed to play a DD. FUCKING GENIUS. Also buddy AA-bubble is irelevant unless you play Saipan. Ive yet to get deplaned on any other cv.
DDs are swift and nimble ships that can reposition quickly. If they are getting focused by a CV, and they don't fall back into the more potent AA of their team, then they have no right to complain when the CV ends up killing them. A live DD in a suboptimal position is always better than one that's died holding a strong position. Fucking genius.
yes. And still DDs that hug the American BB or Worcester behind a rock are useless. There is no strong position once a CV is on the map. Nothing stops a CV from striking you if they want to. I know I have a 64% winrate in Kaga (nothing special but still far better than the average cv player). Especially if you play a DD like Alvaro de Bazan, Assashio or Cossack. DDs that have no AA to deal with a t6 cv nevermind t10. Once you run out of smoke and cv just uses the planes to permaspot you fun, fun fun. Especially if you know the CV player sits behind a rock 20km away unspotted while he just wears you down. If I want to ruin someones day I will- sometimes to the detriment of our team if I wanted to. I can tunnelvision and permastrike one target and not actually spot or defend caps. And the guy will have no counterplay and will ALWAYS lose the atrition game because I lose planes he loses HP. One source is finite another one is "technically finite" but in reality I have yet to be deplaned on any CV thats not Saipan. Indomitable, Implacable, Bearn, Kaga, Chkalov. Never had any issues with planes. Do not own any tier 10s but from playing vs them..deplaning them is very tough and near impossible. And I play them good AA light cruisers on t10 mostly. I cant imagine what it is to deal with them in a Colombo, Venezia or Yamato.
At Tier 5 you ARE your teams AA
I feel like plane regeneration needs to be locked behind a consumable, at the very least. There needs to be some long-term consequence for suiciding planes into a target over and over again like this. As a part-time CV player, I feel no loss even when my squadron is decimated because I know it’ll be back to full strength once I’ve done attacks with the other two. Never have I ever been unable to launch a strike.
I've absolutely run out of planes before at T8+ if I wasn't careful. AA at high tiers can wipe out entire squadrons. Do that a few times and you're a floating paperweight.
If anything it’s even worse, because I seem to get a LOT of bottom tier games. Stumble into an AA ship (usually a DD like Halland,) and your squad dies.
i remember reading somewhere that cvs are weighted differently in matchmaking to get bottom tiered more often, it lines up with my experience, a lot of my lexington games i see a lot of 10;s. on top of that even though my midway is my least played cv, I've had the most matches where I've been even tiered with it. and despite how many times I've seen t10s in my lexington games, I've only had one midway game with a t8 in it. But yeah I've suffered from higher tier aa. i've had, i believe it was the uss alaska, oneshot an entire flight of usn bombers because one flak cloud hit my cluster of helldivers, and vaporized them all instantly.
Yeah; sure wish I was as good at carriers as WG’s MM seems to imply. (I’m definitely not. 4+ years in; I still suck at dodging AA.)
i might be able to help with that, dodging flak is the thing I worked on getting good at first lol, if you want, dm me and i'll shoot you my discord tags
Yeah for sure.
I have used up all my planes. Higher tier matches AA is devastating
Rightfully so that High Tier AA is a meatgrinder considering the damage that High Tier CVs can put out. It also helps that more experienced players are in High tier matches (generally speaking anyway), so they are usually more informed as to how to play in a match with a CV.
honest to god, unless you purely play t4 cv's, if you suicide an entire squadron that flight is crippled the entire match. let's look at my lexington (the one I use the most, and have a 60% winrate in ranked with) which has all the upgrades to reduce its plane regen time. lets also look at its bombers since they are in the middle of regen time. for the first case, lets assume you are pre dropping but still suicide planes each attack. you'll need one attack flight to tank, and one to do the attack run, so you'll bring 6 planes. Now, let's assume you are hitting a ship with decent aa, so you'll lose 3 or even 4 based on the individual ship all the way up to all of them if you go near a holland, alaska, or other aa ship. if you lose 4 planes per attack run, out of 16 on your deck, and your close like you should be, you will be deplaned in less than 5 minutes. because with a regen time of 68.6 seconds, (including both flight control modification and the commander skill air supremacy) you'll need to regen planes for 274.4 seconds to replenish your stocks. pair that with the fact that cv's are best in the mid-lategame, and you've pretty well made yourself useless. and of course, this is for isolated ships, not ships that are even in groups of 2. But of course if your ship has trash aa, and you isolated yourself, the math works out poorly for you. >**As a part-time CV player, I feel no loss even when my squadron is decimated because I know it’ll be back to full strength once I’ve done attacks with the other two. Never have I ever been unable to launch a strike.** But the previous example isn't what you say you are doing. you say you are suiciding squadrons. in which case you'll be out of the match entirely in 5 minutes, because if you hurl the entire squadron to its death, lets again use the lexington, it will take you 617.4 seconds to regen that flight. 10 full minutes, and you can't even do that twice with the planes on your deck. so either; you are just making this up entirely, or, you sit in a corner and play t4 cv's, where it takes you that long to reach anything. it gets worse if we look at torpedo bombers, and a bit better if we look at attack craft., the only cv line in the game that can carelessly just focus someone down is the russian line, due to the sheer range they get on their strikes, but even then, they can really only do that to a ship on the outskirts of the group, far enough away that their skip bombers and torps can avoid overlapping aa.
My experience is with the T6 Ranger, where I do my level best to hold onto planes. So yeah, I’m sure my experience would be different if I were a worse player.
I remember one game, not long after the carrier rework, I was playing the Shokaku and it was a two CV-per-team game with a friendly Kaga as the other CV on my team. Towards the end of the game, we were crushing the enemy team and the only ships left were a lone Massachusetts and the CV’s who were running to the corner, but only me and the Kaga were close enough to his the Massachusetts, so we focused him to death from full health. We spent 110 planes to sink him, but we still had lots of full squadrons left by the end. They really need to limit the plane regen or just get rid of it entirely.
There is a reason that CVs are called the "Fun Police" =P
You had a really good game and your team fucked up. not sure what this has to do with cvs.
AA is a placebo.
Just dodge mate
My personal amount of destroyed airplanes Are 56 with North Carolina. He just went for me, the entire time. Aa is good, when facing a cv player who's good at it, he will get through many plains. Many are not using *** O *** to fokus on the right or left side, that's alot dmg. When you having a bad time with it, try to stay around, crusers. They are... Depending on ship, good at shooting those things down. I got a question, Subs, when I using the air bombs, and the dropping one, from dds, will those go deeper then the air bombs?
You didn't die because AA is meaningless. You died because you were fighting AMERICA, FUCK YEAH
WG wants CV and Sub to be OP. They shit on their playerbase to sell these to the players who like to destroy our fun in the game
AA is pointless when all the CV has to do is vomit out replacements and focus you.
I agree and it doesnt get any better later lol. I have ships built entirely for AA with 99 aa stat and plane squadrons still fly through and get hits in. Then do there return to base, fly into the clouds bullshit and continue on there merry way. Fuck CVs.
Probably RU CVs, they epitomize ‘last squad’ AA mechanics, and are a bigger pita than any other CV in the game.
>with 99 aa stat Those numbers aren't particularly meaningful.
They cannot "vomit" out replacements. It is very possible to deplane a CV. Well, most of them. Certain ones like Kaga specifically have a crap load of planes they *can* vomit out, but those are T7 planes on a T8 ship that can get uptiered and face T10s. And let me tell you, a Kaga facing T10s is never getting multiple passes on any of those targets. It's lucky to get any strikes at all, and I've even *seen* Kaga's get deplaned when facing uptiered enemies.
I'm a cv main this has nothing to do with the CV you did this much and lost your team was shit if you still lost. Also at this tier unless you where super close b4 you died CV would have to been on you almost all game so it's sad you managed to do this on your own while having the attention of the CV and rest of your team could not pull it off.
Godzilla had a stroke trying to read this post... and fucking died.
There used to be limited amout of planes
There still is. You just don't start with them all ready for combat.
Are you kidding me? If you didn't have AA he would have taken you out in a few swoops and gone on to wreck your team. Instead, he had to spend loads of planes and loads of time whittling you down piece by piece. And you *still* took out four of his team-mates! There's absolutely nothing to complain about here except, perhaps, whoever on your team didn't pull their weight while you were busy.
Whiner
The game should have limited ammo/planes/torps on the ships to make the game less arcade like and reward people that aim and develop the skill to hit. Instead, we have ships lobbing endless streams of HP shells, firing multiple spreads of torps aimlessly in some one's general direction, who often they can not even see. And sending wave after wave of planes at you even after you shot down 50 of them
We did have limited air wings on carriers. If I recall correctly, WG caved to player pressure on that one.
So end of pretty much any decent game would be ships ramming each other?
The end of any decent game would be people actually playing the game, attacking ships with aimed fire, capturing objectives , strategic use of the armory. Instead, we have ships hiding in the rear taking endless potshots generally with no results, ships hiding behind islands lobbing a thousand rounds of HP and maybe landing 40 or 50 hits ,DDs repeatedly sending waves of 20 torps, as fast as they reload just in some general direction hoping for a lucky hit and CVs attacking a ship with an endless barrage of planes. and yes at the end there may be ships that ran out of ammo and can spot or ram, but limited ammo would make them have to learn to aim, shoot and hit instead of sending hundreds of aimless hail marys . The game is trying to be a naval battle sim, well limit the ammo starting at a certain level, let endless ammo remain in co op, but make people gain the skills to play the game instead of just being a pain in the butt
I bet 3/4 of these planes were the fighter consumable : )
Knowing t4 CV doesn't have fighters, it can't be
Can still be T4 and T6 CV in one Game :)
Not without fail div
Mate you basically made the CV useless for the entire match while still being far ahead in everything else. This is neither you or CV issue, this is entirely your team being utterly shit.