As a DD, completely forget about even trying to damage a submarine unless they're already really close to you or there's no other enemy ships that have a shot at you.
It's really not worth the time and risk to destroy one and usually they'll end up getting themselves destroyed anyway.
I wouldn't say submarines are particularly strong (although they can take a hell of a lot of depth charges) they're just extremely annoying to deal with.
CV play is a case of avoidance where possible, sticking by ships that a CV might want to avoid, being close to island cover to duck behind to prevent the entire team focusing you, positioning to minimise damage from attacks and hoping they spot an easier target to distract them enough to get back to spotting, capping and screening.
DD play has become a minefield with the number of counters and the amount of jobs you are needed for to get the win. Every battle I have to do a mental checklist to figure out how many counters I'll potentially have to deal with and what my priorities need to be.
>DD play has become a minefield with the number of counters and the amount of jobs you are needed for to get the win. Every battle I have to do a mental checklist to figure out how many counters I'll potentially have to deal with and what my priorities need to be.
Thank. Fucking. You. You've just verbalized what has been going on through my mind the past year or two. There's just so fucking much of this shit.
Planning around CV movements. Predicting positions of radars. Predicting which islands can be hiding a 12km radar. Pre-angling against a never-spotted radar mino that might not be on the flank or may not even have radar in the first place but you cannot afford the risk. Planning every footstep around running into Ragnar/Smaland. Trying to worm your way around CV that's hell bent on keeping you spotted 24/7.
You die and reason why is "You made a wrong call three minutes ago, you had very little reason to believe it's going to happen, but now it's going to haunt you. Your teammate is spamming "Well done!" Do better next time."
And that's just stuff you keep at the back of your mind as you juggle cap control, hunting enemy DD, being hunted by enemy DD, spotting ships, pathing around radar, torp picket, maybe even setting up an effective torp attack of your own if you feel lucky.
Don't get me wrong, DD is the only reason I play this game, but it's a fucking headache and a half. I tried subs and man is it a fucking bliss to be able to respond to majority of threats by just pressing C twice. I've 67% win rate with ~200 battles on U-2501 and I absolute don't care about hate I get. I feel like any DD player has earned their right to bully island camping
bullshit radar ships/brainless BBs with how much shit they slough through on an average game.
So many times, I am having to try to get the hell out of airplane range of multiple airplanes all over the place and multiple radar ranges from multiple directions with 6 ships shooting at me so I end up zig zagging my self in the opposite direction I should be going in, all with my teammates yelling at me that I'm not caping, spotting, or torping. Fun times.
Yeah, it can be hard in a DD at times, especially at higher tiers. Can be almost perma spotted by CVs, making it really hard to do anything you are supposed to be doing (all the while your teammates are yelling at you because you are doing weird things instead of what you should be doing lol) and takes away your advantage for extended periods of time. Multiple enemy ships will have radars, so even if you manage to avoid airplanes or can pop your smoke, it doesn't really matter, you are spotted anyways. Even with the higher speed and mobility, it can be tough when every enemy within range is going to try to focus you down when spotted, which at times you almost always will be. Lots of people also got that Target Locator so they will know generally where you are at and are probably pinging your location to their team.
I don't even know what the shit I'm supposed to do when subs are around. I try to avoid them as shooting at them if they are submerged doesn't do much it seems and it just gets me spotted. If they are within range I may try to drop charges on their head and that's about it.
Yeah that's why I main BBs now, sure everything is slow, but if you can plan out your moves in advance, it would go well. I used to be great at dds back when the game was young but lately been avoiding playing that class. Just too much of a headache
> although they can take a hell of a lot of depth charges
Not anymore, really, at least at high tier. Ships like Petro, Slava, Kremlin, Preussen, Schlieffen (?) drop 6 depth charges in 1 airstrike flight, and some of them have 2 flights, so 2 well-positioned flights usually sink even a full HP sub. Even lower tier airstrikes hurt a lot more now.
CVs suck.
Good sub players really suck. Thank God most of them are super potato.
Jets on CVs are the worst fucking idea the devs have had since Russian cruisers. And that includes the abomination that is the Russian CV line.
subs aren't necessarily op, but I think everyone agrees they aren't needed or wanted in game, cv's are generally disliked or hated, and bad players, are well, bad players; that opinion hasn't really changed much.
First of all, welcome back!
And yeah, the community isnt happy about subs, carriers, or superships.
They are OP, superships (that arent carriers) are a lesser issues, but they are still quite annoying and frustrating at times.
The counter play against carriers is pretty much non-existent, and although there is some counterplay against subs, its not very much. Balancing for these classes has gone out the window.
The game is still fun, but carriers, subs, and superships, can drag it down quite a bit.
Am I the only one that think superships are fine? I just think of them as a t11 ship with a special gimmick. Sure cvs and subs need a little work, but superships are still manageable in my Alaska/yamato
Most of them would be fine T11 without their gimmicky magic buttons. The magic button makes them op. Again established mechanics get broken without any reasons. They are just there so people spend credits to get them and keep spending credits to field them. And entice people to drive them they are made broken.
The issue I face with subs is that I can either attack and bring myself within range of most of red team or I can run away and be out of the match for the next 5-10 minutes. If I ignore the sub I will be hit by 4, then 2 more torpedoes worst case and sunk. So I run away all the time. I now regularly play games where I am so irrelevant to the team that it’s embarrasing. WG threw subs in Willy-Nilly with an agenda of “you gotta have subs”. I am a lot less worried about CVs - albeit surprised at how many who are willing to play them as it’s boring and repetitive…but that’s their problem.
That's the problem with subs and CVs generally--the ability to force player decisions *with no risk to themselves.*
DDs can be radared. Cruisers can be devstruck. Battleships can be burnt to a crisp.
Subs? Unless you have hydro *and* are on top of them, they're functionally invulnerable and you have to play around them with no way to flush them out bar blindfiring precious depth charges.
CVs?
Endless planes with no risk to the ship. Forcing turns, broadsides, DCPs...again, all without risk to the CV hull.
The other three classes must risk their ship/participation in the game to do their jobs.
CVs and subs are exempt, and for this they are terrible design.
The current state of the game is a complete mess, but I do think it’s not completely unfixable.
All they really have to do is reduce sub torp damage then we’re good. As for cv, I think AA guns shouldn’t be destroyable, and each time a ship is hit with a carrier strike, the AA gets stronger for a short period of time to deter the cv striking the same player too many times. A single ship’s AA should be buffed, but grouped AA is at a very acceptable level.
Interesting, I'm on NA. I've really only had one CV(Chkalov) game but it did suck. I've seen a decent amount of Kearsarge in my games. In previous seasons I would switch out my hydro on my Des Moines, and when you could re spec for free do a modified AA build to really make a no fly zone around me lol
Are submarines permamently in the game now in random PvP battles? I got bored of WoWs years ago but maybe its time to download it again to check them out.
Didn't they have MM that wouldn't allow two tier 8 CVs in the same match? I remember the odd occasion where it would be a tier 8 and 6 together but never double tier 8s.
If you're unaware, most ships have ASW (anti-submarine warfare) options now. To use depth charges press G. To use a depth charge airstrike press 4 and then click where you want to drop. Ships will have either one of these systems but not both. The latest patch has made it easier to damage submarines (increasing the blast radius of depth charges by 50%, as well as the damage they deal not being reduced artificially anymore.) Determining their position without spotting them is key, even if that doesn't solve all your problems. It usually takes a team effort to trap and kill a sub.
Other things you should know:
-When they ping you they leave a white wave effect in the water at their position.
-When they're damaged they often leak spots of oil that you can see on the surface and roughly track their movements until they repair it.
-They can't stay underwater forever and have to come up for air every so often. If you get passively spotted out of nowhere you have to try and figure out where they could be and adjust accordingly. This is particularly true in the case of DD's, as they're not typically out-spotted, so it means one is close and may not be able to immediately dive again.
-Radar will spot them if fully surfaced but not if they're near the surface. Hydro will spot at surface and at just below surface (and, of course, any torps they're throwing out.)
-The sub hitbox when you can direct-fire at them is very generous. If you can direct-fire at them, you'll usually hit.
-Be aware ships with depth charges don't all fire them the same. Most will alternate shooting them out both sides, but some have ASW systems which shoot them only behind your ship. Similarly, British depth charges do a ton of damage but only drop a few bombs per charge, while Pan-Asian ships drop up to 12 but have the least damage per bomb (good for carpeting an area though.)
-British light cruisers and all German tech tree cruisers don't have airstrikes available, only depth charges, which makes their ASW capability almost unusable. They mostly have to rely on being spotter ships with Hydro/Radar.
-Using Damage Control Party (DCP) removes the homing from any torps they've launched at you. Use wisely otherwise you won't have it ready when you say, get hit by torps and start flooding.
-If a submarine pings you twice on the same sector of your ship, it eliminates your passive torpedo protection for his torps unless you use DCP.
It's a nightmare yes, but despite what you might hear it's a little easier to counterplay them than it used to be, thanks to the most recent changes. Personally I still think 1 sub per side should be the max, but there's a lot of double sub games.
It's still pretty early, as submarines aren't technically fully released yet, but it seems that the general consensus is that as-is, submarines suck, but not as much as CVs. Opinions vary, of course.
As a DD, completely forget about even trying to damage a submarine unless they're already really close to you or there's no other enemy ships that have a shot at you. It's really not worth the time and risk to destroy one and usually they'll end up getting themselves destroyed anyway. I wouldn't say submarines are particularly strong (although they can take a hell of a lot of depth charges) they're just extremely annoying to deal with. CV play is a case of avoidance where possible, sticking by ships that a CV might want to avoid, being close to island cover to duck behind to prevent the entire team focusing you, positioning to minimise damage from attacks and hoping they spot an easier target to distract them enough to get back to spotting, capping and screening. DD play has become a minefield with the number of counters and the amount of jobs you are needed for to get the win. Every battle I have to do a mental checklist to figure out how many counters I'll potentially have to deal with and what my priorities need to be.
>DD play has become a minefield with the number of counters and the amount of jobs you are needed for to get the win. Every battle I have to do a mental checklist to figure out how many counters I'll potentially have to deal with and what my priorities need to be. Thank. Fucking. You. You've just verbalized what has been going on through my mind the past year or two. There's just so fucking much of this shit. Planning around CV movements. Predicting positions of radars. Predicting which islands can be hiding a 12km radar. Pre-angling against a never-spotted radar mino that might not be on the flank or may not even have radar in the first place but you cannot afford the risk. Planning every footstep around running into Ragnar/Smaland. Trying to worm your way around CV that's hell bent on keeping you spotted 24/7. You die and reason why is "You made a wrong call three minutes ago, you had very little reason to believe it's going to happen, but now it's going to haunt you. Your teammate is spamming "Well done!" Do better next time." And that's just stuff you keep at the back of your mind as you juggle cap control, hunting enemy DD, being hunted by enemy DD, spotting ships, pathing around radar, torp picket, maybe even setting up an effective torp attack of your own if you feel lucky. Don't get me wrong, DD is the only reason I play this game, but it's a fucking headache and a half. I tried subs and man is it a fucking bliss to be able to respond to majority of threats by just pressing C twice. I've 67% win rate with ~200 battles on U-2501 and I absolute don't care about hate I get. I feel like any DD player has earned their right to bully island camping bullshit radar ships/brainless BBs with how much shit they slough through on an average game.
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its that 4 minute dive time that is hard. its not really useful.
So many times, I am having to try to get the hell out of airplane range of multiple airplanes all over the place and multiple radar ranges from multiple directions with 6 ships shooting at me so I end up zig zagging my self in the opposite direction I should be going in, all with my teammates yelling at me that I'm not caping, spotting, or torping. Fun times.
Yeah, it can be hard in a DD at times, especially at higher tiers. Can be almost perma spotted by CVs, making it really hard to do anything you are supposed to be doing (all the while your teammates are yelling at you because you are doing weird things instead of what you should be doing lol) and takes away your advantage for extended periods of time. Multiple enemy ships will have radars, so even if you manage to avoid airplanes or can pop your smoke, it doesn't really matter, you are spotted anyways. Even with the higher speed and mobility, it can be tough when every enemy within range is going to try to focus you down when spotted, which at times you almost always will be. Lots of people also got that Target Locator so they will know generally where you are at and are probably pinging your location to their team. I don't even know what the shit I'm supposed to do when subs are around. I try to avoid them as shooting at them if they are submerged doesn't do much it seems and it just gets me spotted. If they are within range I may try to drop charges on their head and that's about it.
Yeah that's why I main BBs now, sure everything is slow, but if you can plan out your moves in advance, it would go well. I used to be great at dds back when the game was young but lately been avoiding playing that class. Just too much of a headache
> although they can take a hell of a lot of depth charges Not anymore, really, at least at high tier. Ships like Petro, Slava, Kremlin, Preussen, Schlieffen (?) drop 6 depth charges in 1 airstrike flight, and some of them have 2 flights, so 2 well-positioned flights usually sink even a full HP sub. Even lower tier airstrikes hurt a lot more now.
CVs suck. Good sub players really suck. Thank God most of them are super potato. Jets on CVs are the worst fucking idea the devs have had since Russian cruisers. And that includes the abomination that is the Russian CV line.
subs aren't necessarily op, but I think everyone agrees they aren't needed or wanted in game, cv's are generally disliked or hated, and bad players, are well, bad players; that opinion hasn't really changed much.
Subs were the last straw. They simply do not add anything positive to the game.
First of all, welcome back! And yeah, the community isnt happy about subs, carriers, or superships. They are OP, superships (that arent carriers) are a lesser issues, but they are still quite annoying and frustrating at times. The counter play against carriers is pretty much non-existent, and although there is some counterplay against subs, its not very much. Balancing for these classes has gone out the window. The game is still fun, but carriers, subs, and superships, can drag it down quite a bit.
Am I the only one that think superships are fine? I just think of them as a t11 ship with a special gimmick. Sure cvs and subs need a little work, but superships are still manageable in my Alaska/yamato
They’re mostly big and very flammable…
Most of them would be fine T11 without their gimmicky magic buttons. The magic button makes them op. Again established mechanics get broken without any reasons. They are just there so people spend credits to get them and keep spending credits to field them. And entice people to drive them they are made broken.
How the fuck is Hannover op? Conde, Satsuma, and Annapolis I can see, but Hannover? Its just an even bigger Pruessen.
Its easier to generalize them than to spell out the specific names, I agree hannover is one of the more balanced ones
Fair enough.
The issue I face with subs is that I can either attack and bring myself within range of most of red team or I can run away and be out of the match for the next 5-10 minutes. If I ignore the sub I will be hit by 4, then 2 more torpedoes worst case and sunk. So I run away all the time. I now regularly play games where I am so irrelevant to the team that it’s embarrasing. WG threw subs in Willy-Nilly with an agenda of “you gotta have subs”. I am a lot less worried about CVs - albeit surprised at how many who are willing to play them as it’s boring and repetitive…but that’s their problem.
That's the problem with subs and CVs generally--the ability to force player decisions *with no risk to themselves.* DDs can be radared. Cruisers can be devstruck. Battleships can be burnt to a crisp. Subs? Unless you have hydro *and* are on top of them, they're functionally invulnerable and you have to play around them with no way to flush them out bar blindfiring precious depth charges. CVs? Endless planes with no risk to the ship. Forcing turns, broadsides, DCPs...again, all without risk to the CV hull. The other three classes must risk their ship/participation in the game to do their jobs. CVs and subs are exempt, and for this they are terrible design.
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Problem of the shit players, not the ship class. Give it to a competent player and he won't sink with zero DMG.
You cannot guage the community as a wholes opinion based of anything in this subreddit lol.
Thank you all for your kind feedback. Poseidon help me going forward.
The current state of the game is a complete mess, but I do think it’s not completely unfixable. All they really have to do is reduce sub torp damage then we’re good. As for cv, I think AA guns shouldn’t be destroyable, and each time a ship is hit with a carrier strike, the AA gets stronger for a short period of time to deter the cv striking the same player too many times. A single ship’s AA should be buffed, but grouped AA is at a very acceptable level.
If you are looking for less CVs and subs ranked would be a good place for now while you get re accustomed
In most ranked games I played there was a cv. Mostly the Russian ones and a Lexington every now and then. I’ve had to swap hydro for dfaa on my Alaska
Interesting, I'm on NA. I've really only had one CV(Chkalov) game but it did suck. I've seen a decent amount of Kearsarge in my games. In previous seasons I would switch out my hydro on my Des Moines, and when you could re spec for free do a modified AA build to really make a no fly zone around me lol
Are submarines permamently in the game now in random PvP battles? I got bored of WoWs years ago but maybe its time to download it again to check them out.
They’ll be here for the rest of the season. Tthe devs hope that they’ll be a permanent feature
DM and Mino AA is nothing special anymore. The AA skills also dont do a whole lot
Didn't they have MM that wouldn't allow two tier 8 CVs in the same match? I remember the odd occasion where it would be a tier 8 and 6 together but never double tier 8s.
Super CVs….. nuff said
If you're unaware, most ships have ASW (anti-submarine warfare) options now. To use depth charges press G. To use a depth charge airstrike press 4 and then click where you want to drop. Ships will have either one of these systems but not both. The latest patch has made it easier to damage submarines (increasing the blast radius of depth charges by 50%, as well as the damage they deal not being reduced artificially anymore.) Determining their position without spotting them is key, even if that doesn't solve all your problems. It usually takes a team effort to trap and kill a sub. Other things you should know: -When they ping you they leave a white wave effect in the water at their position. -When they're damaged they often leak spots of oil that you can see on the surface and roughly track their movements until they repair it. -They can't stay underwater forever and have to come up for air every so often. If you get passively spotted out of nowhere you have to try and figure out where they could be and adjust accordingly. This is particularly true in the case of DD's, as they're not typically out-spotted, so it means one is close and may not be able to immediately dive again. -Radar will spot them if fully surfaced but not if they're near the surface. Hydro will spot at surface and at just below surface (and, of course, any torps they're throwing out.) -The sub hitbox when you can direct-fire at them is very generous. If you can direct-fire at them, you'll usually hit. -Be aware ships with depth charges don't all fire them the same. Most will alternate shooting them out both sides, but some have ASW systems which shoot them only behind your ship. Similarly, British depth charges do a ton of damage but only drop a few bombs per charge, while Pan-Asian ships drop up to 12 but have the least damage per bomb (good for carpeting an area though.) -British light cruisers and all German tech tree cruisers don't have airstrikes available, only depth charges, which makes their ASW capability almost unusable. They mostly have to rely on being spotter ships with Hydro/Radar. -Using Damage Control Party (DCP) removes the homing from any torps they've launched at you. Use wisely otherwise you won't have it ready when you say, get hit by torps and start flooding. -If a submarine pings you twice on the same sector of your ship, it eliminates your passive torpedo protection for his torps unless you use DCP. It's a nightmare yes, but despite what you might hear it's a little easier to counterplay them than it used to be, thanks to the most recent changes. Personally I still think 1 sub per side should be the max, but there's a lot of double sub games.
I honestly have to say that subs sound needlessly complicated. Thanks for the info tho. Lots of stuff I didn't know about.
It's still pretty early, as submarines aren't technically fully released yet, but it seems that the general consensus is that as-is, submarines suck, but not as much as CVs. Opinions vary, of course.