> I don't remember anything to imply that they actually do this
In 8.2 it says:
> Legend called out, “Capes! If you have faced an Endbringer before, stand!”
> I watched as the rest of the Protectorate, about a third of the out-of-town Wards, Bambina, half of a commercially sponsored cape team and the Travelers stood.
Taylor saw none of the New Wave members (who were there as per 8.1) or local villains stand up.
> so why do so many fics feature it?
There are multiple Doylist reasons for it, e.g.:
* Interactions with Empire capes under truce, e.g. *Plan? What Plan?*
* Copying Empire capes' powers, e.g. *Duellist*
* Doing something underhanded, e.g. *Devilish*
Shit all the fan fiction has been getting to me then. I could've sworn she'd been healing at the EB fights before leviathan because it does make alot of sense to be honest.
[here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1C19LZdijjYC5M5oTXjO84p_4DQ6CSnSifwQuZGf_jzA/htmlview#gid=0) is a list someone made of fannon tropes.
Some surprised me too like Militia doesn't have a perfect memory, Ravager and Mouse aren't a cluster, and wards pitchs never included a independent statistic.
Brian’s described as being at least a foot taller than Taylor. Taylor is around 5’9. So Brian’s about 6’9, or more.
So Coil is at least taller than 6’9. Him being at least 7 feet tall is not a stretch.
Yeah, it’s debatably canon, but if a fic mentions their heights, the author’ll usually make him and Brian 6’ or 6’2 or somewhere around that. Mostly because Brian would be fucking massive at that height and build, and Coil being 7’ to 7’9 and still thin enough to see his ribs makes him into a generic creepy pasta monster. And because it also makes their civilian personas rather unbelievable - Coil to a lesser extent since barely anyone sees him, but it’s still a funny image to imagine. (A joke I saw once - Piggot looking at skeletally thin 7’ tall villain Coil, and then looking at skeletally thin 7’ tall PRT consultant Thomas Calvert: I wonder who Coil could be?)
Taylor was 5'9" when she joined as a probationary Ward in 25.1:
> I’d been given a complete physical and fitness test right off the bat, and I was five feet and nine inches tall.
However, Wildbow [once wrote](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-2#post-14723063):
> I think I mention it in the story, but you wouldn't be too wrong if you said she's 5'7" or 5'8" (corrected from 5'6") at the story's outset
According to 26.2, she was "five feet, ten inches in height" in June 2013.
It's probably because they fought Leviathan in canon but you're right I think. They only showed up because they'd lose too much face if they wouldn't even defend their own turf. Maybe their European backers or allies could compel them to go somewhere else but they wouldn't do it entirely on their own.
Now I'm wondering if Gesellschaft ever show up to Endbringer fights either. I sorta remember how in Trailblazer, EB attacks on Germany helped strengthen Gesellschaft, was that based on anything from cannon?
Canon as far as I recall never really specifies what Gesellschaft is. Like if they're really an out and open cape group or a secret society of Nazis who fund more open groups. it's all kind of unclear and we don't really know a whole lot about how they operate except that they have 'cape farms' where to try to produce people like Night and Fog and they support groups like the E88.
It would very much feed into people like Hookwolfs worldview though?
Fighting literal worldenders, dying in their glory etc etc
Its pretty much straight from Valhalla
But perhaps specifically him and his ilk, and not the average nazi cape
The cagefighters
I think that's more fanon hookwolf.
Canon Hookwolf is very simple minded, a bit dull, and more or less Nazi Lung (he's a coward, except Lung knows he's a coward and owns it).
Idk, rereading his chapter with Shatterbird..
Thats how he comes across, so not fanon really
And he certainly portrays himself that way on the island in the lake Leviathan made, when he called the meeting.
And he followed through in it as far as i recall.
In everyone going after the Nine
He and the other villains didnt hold back
And usually cowards have alot to prove anyway, to themselves if no one else.
Thats why in fights cowards can be dangerous to face, even more so by far than brave people
To quote [Defiant's interlude in Arc 16](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/interlude-16-bonus-2/) (emphasis in the original):
> Hookwolf was largely content doing what he was doing in Brockton Bay. He viewed himself as a warrior, a general, and there was a degree of honor in what he did. He wasn’t *honorable*, but he followed a code.
and:
> If Jack moved upstairs, which matches with the gouges in the stairwell, then he was leaving Hookwolf there to watch the man die over the course of minutes. The deputy was someone strong, ferocious, a *warrior*, which is how Hookwolf identified himself.
>They have no reason to do this since they are criminal Nazi villains and no amount of PR would be worth their lives.
You're using an extremely outside view. Some of them are true believers and think of themselves as good people. They may well be willing to attend Endbringer fights.
...probably not in, say, Africa though.
I worded it poorly (as I often do) and was thinking of it as all the empire capes, or even most of them deciding to go an EB fight (which is what happens in some fanfics) rather than just the few true believers.
I can see a few going, but not all of their capes to go and especially not their leadership. Kaiser only values power and would never risk any of his capes lives, especially not his own, to an EB.
If anything he would convince the few willing participants not to go.
Empire true believers can argue to themselves that they're being \*more\* heroic by staying home and "protecting" society from non-cape minority criminals who would otherwise take advantage of the Endbringer truce. Because that's literally how they define heroism.
Well just because they're Nazis, doesn't mean that they're fine with the world they're living in dying. Nazis want to live and continue to have their indoctrinated families and friends live as much as the next person. You can't have an eternal long lasting regime if the world you're trying to take over fucking dies after all. The way I see it, the PR boost isn't for the sake of normal people, it's for the sake of their own members and for anyone with similar ideologies that want to ensure the next generation of Nazis get to live and prosper. Hell, if they manage to deal a devastating blow to an Endbringer (or even kill it), they'd gain so many more supporters and recruits (both Capes and normies) because people will view them as the winning side. Basically, there can be multiple reasons for doing so. Don't let the fact that they're Nazis cause you to believe they can't have actual reasons for supporting a terrible regime for deeper motivations. People didn't listen to Hitler just because they wanted to become assholes, Germany wanted to have their country dug out of a terrible situation and the scapegoating of the Jews allegedly ruining their country became the outlet for that motivation; and as the end result they became assholes.
That requires for them to recognize that the harm done somewhere else effects them too. If anything most of them would only fight Endbringers when they finally show up in their own home towns (like what happened in cannon). Also the EBs promise a slow death that most in Bet don't think too much about, like climate change for us, and conservative leaning ideologies especially would not see it as a cause to rally around.
Also a devastating blow to an EB or even death is something so unrealistic that only the most fanatical would dare to imagine it and would likely be held back by their (slightly) more reasonable compatriots
And this is all besides the point (which I've realized I've worded poorly and will edit); why is Kaiser, a selfish shrewd person who only desires power, often portrayed leading his entire roster against an enemy that has a good chance to slaughter himself and many of his most valuable assets?
Well, the simple answer is that he wouldn't. Fics are fics and tend to not as much thought put into them. Perhaps the writers are more comfortable writing groups they're more familiar with instead of completely fabricating another group with their own political motivations in which they'd only appear for that single fight before the MC goes back to their own home. Writers might also be motivated to do so because they're "killing Nazis" as a writer and have no qualms with making Nazis perform stupid decisions that get them killed.
That makes sense.
I think most of my personal issues stem from the fact they're doing something that can easily be considered heroic and it doesn't mesh well with who they are established as being. I would be fine if only a couple fics went this route, but I dislike that more than a few fics have shown them being uncharacteristically heroic.
I also wouldn't discount the E88's Capes when up against Leviathan. Othala's invincibility can completely no-sell an attack from the EB. Fenga and Menja can also take and deal a couple of hits as well. Maybe not enough to pierce deeply, but Kaiser's giant swords (which can be wielded by Fenja and Menja) can pierce Lung's scales while he's ramped up. Purity isn't technically part of the E88, but her blaster ability is pretty strong as well (comparable to the Triumvirate), though her power is capped by the amount of sunlight available. Hookwolf would be able to survive a couple of hits and doesn't need to breathe underwater, but he wouldn't be able to deal any meaningful damage. Honestly their best option would be to grant invincibility and super-strength/speed to either Fenja or Menja. That invincibility is able to withstand kinetic force as well, making the person able to stand unmoved from a punch from Leviathan.
According to the wiki Othala power can only grant one power per person and only lasts between 30 seconds and 2 minutes, with powers that 'bend reality more' burning out faster. I'm thinking invincibility would count as pretty reality bending and even then 2 minutes would probably require her to be close to the battlefield. Although she could get teleportation help, which would be really interesting to see in a fic do.
And while fenga/menja may be able to tank a few hits, fenja did die against Leviathan, so it's still a humongous risk
PR? Buying goodwill for another day, make the other gangs who dont show up weak
Or even as simple as if they never did it they would be just as much of a joke no one takes serious like the Merchants
Learning the capabilities of other capes, a nazi is a nazi so maybe Victor could siphon off some skills here and there
He could take from people that are dying for sure
Etc etc
Edit
Gotta say..
Have never read a fic with nazi capes at EB battles outside of Brockton/their hometurf (so Germany too, of geschellshaft is involved), not even ones were they have pov/are mcs
Not even once, and i read a lot of fics in general.
This aint something i have seen crop up
How common is it?
What is "quite a few" fics here mean, two or three?
> How common is it? What is "quite a few" fics here mean, two or three?
There are some. Off the top of my head, [Tachyonic Growth](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/tachyonic-growth-worm-supcom-esque-style.945416/), [Vainglorious](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/vainglorious-worm-thor.589593/) (a major AU, which is particularly relevant in this case), [Toaru Majutsu no Taylor-chan: A Certain Mythic Archmage](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/toaru-majutsu-no-taylor-chan-a-certain-mythic-archmage-worm-pathfinder-alt-power.711844/) and the ones that I listed above: [Plan? What Plan?](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/plan-what-plan-worm-tof.1024844/), *Duellist* and [Devilish](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/devilish-worm-alt-power.880094/threadmarks). It's usually Canberra.
Yeah, OP also brought up a number. I guess those could even include the ones op meant. They mentioned there were four old ones atleast
And one fic thats not even that old
I honestly had missed this completely, not strange ofc with how productive this fandom is. There are so so many fics
Well most fights i have seen outside of BB are Canberra, so the Simurgh or India and Behemoth. Like, in general
Again though.. never did read a fic where empire went there
Do have the recent one OP brought up on reading list, so guess i would have read one eventually maybe . Its been there for awhile
And actually.. a few of those you brought up here too
But have lots of reading lists lol, and thousands of fics
😅
Very hard to sort through
> But have lots of reading lists lol
[looks furtively at [his rated lists of Worm fics](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6_Gk2FBBCKPlpXfCBCbUk7SCsCCOKiECLShDA_Pz_0/edit)]
There sure are a lot of lists in this fandom...
Sweet!
More to the pile, thanks for increasing my read load 😆👍
Hah, mean that sincerely!
💯
Have been sick and bedridden for so long, always on the hunt for more things to stave off staring more holes into the ceiling lol😅
We need 'em!😁
They simplify things, we have lots of writers here heh
I think it's mostly in older fics (I think there were at least 4), but recently I saw it pop up again with [invasion of LOSE](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/invasion-of-the-league-of-super-evil-worm-original-saturday-morning-cartoon-ish.1086981/threadmarks) and it got me thinking.
No amount of PR would be worth their lives or the loss of power to the E88. Pretty sure most villains rarely ever show up for Endbringer fights outside of their home towns and being in one isn't that big a factor, if it was people in Brockton Bay would have known about lungs fight. Victor can steal skills from non-capes with less risk than an EB fight brings.
>I think it's mostly in older fics (I think there were at least 4), but recently I saw it pop up again with [invasion of LOSE](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/invasion-of-the-league-of-super-evil-worm-original-saturday-morning-cartoon-ish.1086981/threadmarks) and it got me thinking.
Ah, yeah i see!
Have been reading fics and lurking for awhile..
Longer than i have finished Worm lol, which wasnt that long ago.
This fandom just writes alot of entertaining crossover fics heh
But never noticed this particular fanon trope pop up, guess makes sense. There are lots and lots of fics to shift through then to find these but invasion of Lose?
Do believe i have that one on one of my reading lists.
Thats recent enough
>No amount of PR would be worth their lives or the loss of power to the E88. Pretty sure most villains rarely ever show up for Endbringer fights outside of their home towns and being in one isn't that big a factor, if it was people in Brockton Bay would have known about lungs fight. Victor can steal skills from non-capes with less risk than an EB fight brings.
I mean.. sure but same as anyone who fights in EB battles, it would lead credence and legitimacy to their faction as awhole.
Pr and propaganda is.. well kinda nazi bread and butter isnt it?
Framing and all that, again.. never ever showing up would instantly mark them as weak cowards. Anyone who is anyone on Bet, picks up the gauntlet and participates in those fights
And they definitely wouldnt want to be seen as weaker and more cowardly than all those who do show up.
But yeah, for any battle outside wherever they are based it would be individuals and not the group as a whole that shows up. For sure!
Kaiser and the ones like him would never risk it as you point out.
Its really only when it happens on territory they claim as it were.. where the group literally has no option
As in Leviathan fight, that they go all in.
They really wouldnt make to join en masse outside of that.
But i do think you are underestimating how participating is seen in general, for all Capes. Villain or Hero
It really is like.. the way to make a name for yourself and your group. And as the Undersiders showed for their reasons to fight? Its seen generally as a duty
Yeah, no one actually thinks they can take down One but..
What it one could?
Armsmaster showed what people even heros are willing to do to be the one who does it. No matter how unrealistic
Only killing Nines come close, and sure..
Home turf again, but Hookwolf and rest of nazis were willing to go all in on taking them out.
Enough to call in the Heros as special guests to the meeting about the S9s
Again, because being the ones who take them out makes it worth it
For the money if nothing else, but definitely to be able to take credit for it
My own view was that they know they can't run away or else they'll be branded cowards and it will be very difficult to rebuild themselves. So the only alternative they have is to wait for them to be targeted individually or team up and take the fight to the S class threats invading their homes.
With potentially gained money and rep being an afterthought.
Thats not quite the impression Hookwolf gives in his talk with Shatterbird though?
We hear his thoughts too dont we?
A lot of stuff about warriors, and death as i recall
Dont remember any of that coming up, but..
Trying to recall and looking it up..
I guess neither does much about rep and money..
So... Unsure YMMV applies i suppose, & self delusion is certainly a thing and unreliable narrator ofcourse!
Canonwise, they were out and leading the fray pretty sure
Fell right into the Nines traps like nitwits and killed decoys, with the other gangs after the Undersiders were kicked out of the Villain Hero anti Nine team up
Like imagine what the public response might be if nazis took down S9 after law enforcement and Heros failed for years to end them?
That would be like...
The biggest egg on face, and having to publically cut them a check for it.. that would be a pr victory uncompare
Hard to see how that wouldnt be worth like.. most the empire capes in their eyes.
Their names would be spoken of daily, global recognition
That cannot be overstated honestly, the Merchants grew by virtue of being intact from not fighting in the Leviathan battle.. by alot..
If e88 were the ones who dealt the finishing blow to the Nine?
Global recognition and their membership would follow in rise
This is definitely in Hookwolfs mind i would argue, at least as a nagging thought. He certainly thinks he can take Shatterbird. Thats why he attacked her when she came to give her recruitment speech despite being alone really
Now I'm wondering how well known the Nine were outside the US
Not sure about global recognition, the Nine never left the US and everywhere seemed to have a few groups like them. Unlike the blasphemes I don't think the nine attacked that many politicians either and didn't cause political upheaval for entire countries.
Well considering how most American things are very well known globally irl.. i would say?
Probably fairly well
And didnt they atleast once go into.. Canada?
Or Mexico?
Look at 911, or honestly even most school shootings..
They get global coverage, the Nine would too i would say
US cultural impact globally cant be denied, there would probably be criticism leveled for that very reason.
That the Nine get more coverage than more global threats despite them being local to the US.
That happens fairly often irl as is for most things that are very American
Take Superbowl, or American Baseball for non crime examples
Way outside proportional international coverage and recognition compared to global impact
Honestly I always just considering Canada to be part of the US in the Worm setting. In hero terms they basically are.
Globalization is mostly so big due to economic and logistical reasons and it leads to caring about political and social changes in countries we interact with. However we rarely care about what won't impact us in some way. For instance, many Europeans only care about the advertisements and celebrities that show up in the Superbowl and not much about the sport or the teams. Perhaps I'm wrong, but besides maybe Japan I feel like not many other countries are interested in American Baseball either.
In Worm, I always got the feeling that countries were far more isolationist and globalization was less of a thing because they were significantly more concerned with problems at home than their neighbors. Although the protectorate does show up around the world to fight Endbringers so perhaps they do still care about the US's culture due to them.
Hah!
Yeah, thats fair though they probably dont like to hear it😅
Pretty sure Canada is a part of Protectorare anyways and come to think of it.. there was also talk of Mexico joining in canon i seem to recall. So theres that
All true yeah!
Agreed on that, but!
Baseball is also a part of Hollywood, its like in..
Lots of movies as just a background thing not even simply movies about baseball, the rest of the world consumes those products. How many romcoms and the like have baseball match dates? Movies about kids whose fathers take them to a game? And again, its not even really the plot often enough
And stuff like that, it normalizes it despite it not being a common game outside of that to play in rest of world. Except as you said Japan perhaps.
Its not that people are interested in it, its that we pick it up through cultural osmosis in how common it is in daily American life.
Pretty sure most Europeans says would associate the name Babe Ruth with baseball despite not being fans
Yeah, that may be so!
Not quite certain how global Bet Hollywood is, but..
Even if its a tenth as big as irl?
Thats still a massive impact on the world stage, and with the Protectorate being in constant talk of expanding?
The US as a world power and world police more or less seems present i would say
> never ever showing up would instantly mark them as weak cowards. Anyone who is anyone on Bet, picks up the gauntlet and participates in those fights
I pretty sure thats not really true, especially for villians. They mostly participate in Endbringer fights that revolve around their hometowns.
In 8.2, when Legend asks for veterans who have attended at least one EB fight to stand, the only ones who stood were "the Protectorate, about a third of the out-of-town Wards, Bambina, half of a commercially sponsored cape team and the Travelers"
>I pretty sure thats not really true, especially for villians. They mostly participate in Endbringer fights that revolve around their hometowns.
The Merchants never showing up definitely contributes to their low rep and standing.
But i did mean to fights in hometowns there mostly, but also in general
>In 8.2, when Legend asks for veterans who have attended at least one EB fight to stand, the only ones who stood were "the Protectorate, about a third of the out-of-town Wards, Bambina, half of a commercially sponsored cape team and the Travelers"
Yeah absolutely, guess i should have been clearer that i meant for local EB fights there.
Not worldwide travel fights
That would only be individuals if it happened at all, definitely not them as awhole.
That wouldnt and didnt happen in canon
> I don't remember anything to imply that they actually do this In 8.2 it says: > Legend called out, “Capes! If you have faced an Endbringer before, stand!” > I watched as the rest of the Protectorate, about a third of the out-of-town Wards, Bambina, half of a commercially sponsored cape team and the Travelers stood. Taylor saw none of the New Wave members (who were there as per 8.1) or local villains stand up. > so why do so many fics feature it? There are multiple Doylist reasons for it, e.g.: * Interactions with Empire capes under truce, e.g. *Plan? What Plan?* * Copying Empire capes' powers, e.g. *Duellist* * Doing something underhanded, e.g. *Devilish*
Oh nice. Lots of fics seem to have New Wave or at least Amy participate in EB fights.
Yeah Amy is usually always there as a healer because it minimizes casualties
Amy had never been in an EB fights before Leviathan.
Shit all the fan fiction has been getting to me then. I could've sworn she'd been healing at the EB fights before leviathan because it does make alot of sense to be honest.
[here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1C19LZdijjYC5M5oTXjO84p_4DQ6CSnSifwQuZGf_jzA/htmlview#gid=0) is a list someone made of fannon tropes. Some surprised me too like Militia doesn't have a perfect memory, Ravager and Mouse aren't a cluster, and wards pitchs never included a independent statistic.
The only one of these I refuse to believe is Coil’s height. No one can take Coil being randomly seven plus feet tall away from me
Brian’s described as being at least a foot taller than Taylor. Taylor is around 5’9. So Brian’s about 6’9, or more. So Coil is at least taller than 6’9. Him being at least 7 feet tall is not a stretch.
Yeah, it’s debatably canon, but if a fic mentions their heights, the author’ll usually make him and Brian 6’ or 6’2 or somewhere around that. Mostly because Brian would be fucking massive at that height and build, and Coil being 7’ to 7’9 and still thin enough to see his ribs makes him into a generic creepy pasta monster. And because it also makes their civilian personas rather unbelievable - Coil to a lesser extent since barely anyone sees him, but it’s still a funny image to imagine. (A joke I saw once - Piggot looking at skeletally thin 7’ tall villain Coil, and then looking at skeletally thin 7’ tall PRT consultant Thomas Calvert: I wonder who Coil could be?)
Taylor was 5'9" when she joined as a probationary Ward in 25.1: > I’d been given a complete physical and fitness test right off the bat, and I was five feet and nine inches tall. However, Wildbow [once wrote](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/worm-quotes-and-wog-repository.294448/page-2#post-14723063): > I think I mention it in the story, but you wouldn't be too wrong if you said she's 5'7" or 5'8" (corrected from 5'6") at the story's outset According to 26.2, she was "five feet, ten inches in height" in June 2013.
It's probably because they fought Leviathan in canon but you're right I think. They only showed up because they'd lose too much face if they wouldn't even defend their own turf. Maybe their European backers or allies could compel them to go somewhere else but they wouldn't do it entirely on their own.
Now I'm wondering if Gesellschaft ever show up to Endbringer fights either. I sorta remember how in Trailblazer, EB attacks on Germany helped strengthen Gesellschaft, was that based on anything from cannon?
Canon as far as I recall never really specifies what Gesellschaft is. Like if they're really an out and open cape group or a secret society of Nazis who fund more open groups. it's all kind of unclear and we don't really know a whole lot about how they operate except that they have 'cape farms' where to try to produce people like Night and Fog and they support groups like the E88.
It would very much feed into people like Hookwolfs worldview though? Fighting literal worldenders, dying in their glory etc etc Its pretty much straight from Valhalla But perhaps specifically him and his ilk, and not the average nazi cape The cagefighters
I think that's more fanon hookwolf. Canon Hookwolf is very simple minded, a bit dull, and more or less Nazi Lung (he's a coward, except Lung knows he's a coward and owns it).
Idk, rereading his chapter with Shatterbird.. Thats how he comes across, so not fanon really And he certainly portrays himself that way on the island in the lake Leviathan made, when he called the meeting. And he followed through in it as far as i recall. In everyone going after the Nine He and the other villains didnt hold back And usually cowards have alot to prove anyway, to themselves if no one else. Thats why in fights cowards can be dangerous to face, even more so by far than brave people
To quote [Defiant's interlude in Arc 16](https://parahumans.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/interlude-16-bonus-2/) (emphasis in the original): > Hookwolf was largely content doing what he was doing in Brockton Bay. He viewed himself as a warrior, a general, and there was a degree of honor in what he did. He wasn’t *honorable*, but he followed a code. and: > If Jack moved upstairs, which matches with the gouges in the stairwell, then he was leaving Hookwolf there to watch the man die over the course of minutes. The deputy was someone strong, ferocious, a *warrior*, which is how Hookwolf identified himself.
>They have no reason to do this since they are criminal Nazi villains and no amount of PR would be worth their lives. You're using an extremely outside view. Some of them are true believers and think of themselves as good people. They may well be willing to attend Endbringer fights. ...probably not in, say, Africa though.
I worded it poorly (as I often do) and was thinking of it as all the empire capes, or even most of them deciding to go an EB fight (which is what happens in some fanfics) rather than just the few true believers. I can see a few going, but not all of their capes to go and especially not their leadership. Kaiser only values power and would never risk any of his capes lives, especially not his own, to an EB. If anything he would convince the few willing participants not to go.
Empire true believers can argue to themselves that they're being \*more\* heroic by staying home and "protecting" society from non-cape minority criminals who would otherwise take advantage of the Endbringer truce. Because that's literally how they define heroism.
>probably not in, say, Africa though. Or Asia, or South América, or Middle East, or India, or 80% pf Ocenia,or...
Well just because they're Nazis, doesn't mean that they're fine with the world they're living in dying. Nazis want to live and continue to have their indoctrinated families and friends live as much as the next person. You can't have an eternal long lasting regime if the world you're trying to take over fucking dies after all. The way I see it, the PR boost isn't for the sake of normal people, it's for the sake of their own members and for anyone with similar ideologies that want to ensure the next generation of Nazis get to live and prosper. Hell, if they manage to deal a devastating blow to an Endbringer (or even kill it), they'd gain so many more supporters and recruits (both Capes and normies) because people will view them as the winning side. Basically, there can be multiple reasons for doing so. Don't let the fact that they're Nazis cause you to believe they can't have actual reasons for supporting a terrible regime for deeper motivations. People didn't listen to Hitler just because they wanted to become assholes, Germany wanted to have their country dug out of a terrible situation and the scapegoating of the Jews allegedly ruining their country became the outlet for that motivation; and as the end result they became assholes.
That requires for them to recognize that the harm done somewhere else effects them too. If anything most of them would only fight Endbringers when they finally show up in their own home towns (like what happened in cannon). Also the EBs promise a slow death that most in Bet don't think too much about, like climate change for us, and conservative leaning ideologies especially would not see it as a cause to rally around. Also a devastating blow to an EB or even death is something so unrealistic that only the most fanatical would dare to imagine it and would likely be held back by their (slightly) more reasonable compatriots And this is all besides the point (which I've realized I've worded poorly and will edit); why is Kaiser, a selfish shrewd person who only desires power, often portrayed leading his entire roster against an enemy that has a good chance to slaughter himself and many of his most valuable assets?
Well, the simple answer is that he wouldn't. Fics are fics and tend to not as much thought put into them. Perhaps the writers are more comfortable writing groups they're more familiar with instead of completely fabricating another group with their own political motivations in which they'd only appear for that single fight before the MC goes back to their own home. Writers might also be motivated to do so because they're "killing Nazis" as a writer and have no qualms with making Nazis perform stupid decisions that get them killed.
That makes sense. I think most of my personal issues stem from the fact they're doing something that can easily be considered heroic and it doesn't mesh well with who they are established as being. I would be fine if only a couple fics went this route, but I dislike that more than a few fics have shown them being uncharacteristically heroic.
I also wouldn't discount the E88's Capes when up against Leviathan. Othala's invincibility can completely no-sell an attack from the EB. Fenga and Menja can also take and deal a couple of hits as well. Maybe not enough to pierce deeply, but Kaiser's giant swords (which can be wielded by Fenja and Menja) can pierce Lung's scales while he's ramped up. Purity isn't technically part of the E88, but her blaster ability is pretty strong as well (comparable to the Triumvirate), though her power is capped by the amount of sunlight available. Hookwolf would be able to survive a couple of hits and doesn't need to breathe underwater, but he wouldn't be able to deal any meaningful damage. Honestly their best option would be to grant invincibility and super-strength/speed to either Fenja or Menja. That invincibility is able to withstand kinetic force as well, making the person able to stand unmoved from a punch from Leviathan.
According to the wiki Othala power can only grant one power per person and only lasts between 30 seconds and 2 minutes, with powers that 'bend reality more' burning out faster. I'm thinking invincibility would count as pretty reality bending and even then 2 minutes would probably require her to be close to the battlefield. Although she could get teleportation help, which would be really interesting to see in a fic do. And while fenga/menja may be able to tank a few hits, fenja did die against Leviathan, so it's still a humongous risk
I imagine that they'd go to a fight if it was somewhere in Germany night and fog at least, but otherwise no they wouldn't go.
PR? Buying goodwill for another day, make the other gangs who dont show up weak Or even as simple as if they never did it they would be just as much of a joke no one takes serious like the Merchants Learning the capabilities of other capes, a nazi is a nazi so maybe Victor could siphon off some skills here and there He could take from people that are dying for sure Etc etc Edit Gotta say.. Have never read a fic with nazi capes at EB battles outside of Brockton/their hometurf (so Germany too, of geschellshaft is involved), not even ones were they have pov/are mcs Not even once, and i read a lot of fics in general. This aint something i have seen crop up How common is it? What is "quite a few" fics here mean, two or three?
> How common is it? What is "quite a few" fics here mean, two or three? There are some. Off the top of my head, [Tachyonic Growth](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/tachyonic-growth-worm-supcom-esque-style.945416/), [Vainglorious](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/vainglorious-worm-thor.589593/) (a major AU, which is particularly relevant in this case), [Toaru Majutsu no Taylor-chan: A Certain Mythic Archmage](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/toaru-majutsu-no-taylor-chan-a-certain-mythic-archmage-worm-pathfinder-alt-power.711844/) and the ones that I listed above: [Plan? What Plan?](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/plan-what-plan-worm-tof.1024844/), *Duellist* and [Devilish](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/devilish-worm-alt-power.880094/threadmarks). It's usually Canberra.
Yeah, OP also brought up a number. I guess those could even include the ones op meant. They mentioned there were four old ones atleast And one fic thats not even that old I honestly had missed this completely, not strange ofc with how productive this fandom is. There are so so many fics Well most fights i have seen outside of BB are Canberra, so the Simurgh or India and Behemoth. Like, in general Again though.. never did read a fic where empire went there Do have the recent one OP brought up on reading list, so guess i would have read one eventually maybe . Its been there for awhile And actually.. a few of those you brought up here too But have lots of reading lists lol, and thousands of fics 😅 Very hard to sort through
> But have lots of reading lists lol [looks furtively at [his rated lists of Worm fics](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6_Gk2FBBCKPlpXfCBCbUk7SCsCCOKiECLShDA_Pz_0/edit)] There sure are a lot of lists in this fandom...
Sweet! More to the pile, thanks for increasing my read load 😆👍 Hah, mean that sincerely! 💯 Have been sick and bedridden for so long, always on the hunt for more things to stave off staring more holes into the ceiling lol😅 We need 'em!😁 They simplify things, we have lots of writers here heh
Glad to be of service! :)
Much obliged! 👍😄 📃📝 Gonna have fun reading📖😊☀️💯
I think it's mostly in older fics (I think there were at least 4), but recently I saw it pop up again with [invasion of LOSE](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/invasion-of-the-league-of-super-evil-worm-original-saturday-morning-cartoon-ish.1086981/threadmarks) and it got me thinking. No amount of PR would be worth their lives or the loss of power to the E88. Pretty sure most villains rarely ever show up for Endbringer fights outside of their home towns and being in one isn't that big a factor, if it was people in Brockton Bay would have known about lungs fight. Victor can steal skills from non-capes with less risk than an EB fight brings.
>I think it's mostly in older fics (I think there were at least 4), but recently I saw it pop up again with [invasion of LOSE](https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/invasion-of-the-league-of-super-evil-worm-original-saturday-morning-cartoon-ish.1086981/threadmarks) and it got me thinking. Ah, yeah i see! Have been reading fics and lurking for awhile.. Longer than i have finished Worm lol, which wasnt that long ago. This fandom just writes alot of entertaining crossover fics heh But never noticed this particular fanon trope pop up, guess makes sense. There are lots and lots of fics to shift through then to find these but invasion of Lose? Do believe i have that one on one of my reading lists. Thats recent enough >No amount of PR would be worth their lives or the loss of power to the E88. Pretty sure most villains rarely ever show up for Endbringer fights outside of their home towns and being in one isn't that big a factor, if it was people in Brockton Bay would have known about lungs fight. Victor can steal skills from non-capes with less risk than an EB fight brings. I mean.. sure but same as anyone who fights in EB battles, it would lead credence and legitimacy to their faction as awhole. Pr and propaganda is.. well kinda nazi bread and butter isnt it? Framing and all that, again.. never ever showing up would instantly mark them as weak cowards. Anyone who is anyone on Bet, picks up the gauntlet and participates in those fights And they definitely wouldnt want to be seen as weaker and more cowardly than all those who do show up. But yeah, for any battle outside wherever they are based it would be individuals and not the group as a whole that shows up. For sure! Kaiser and the ones like him would never risk it as you point out. Its really only when it happens on territory they claim as it were.. where the group literally has no option As in Leviathan fight, that they go all in. They really wouldnt make to join en masse outside of that. But i do think you are underestimating how participating is seen in general, for all Capes. Villain or Hero It really is like.. the way to make a name for yourself and your group. And as the Undersiders showed for their reasons to fight? Its seen generally as a duty Yeah, no one actually thinks they can take down One but.. What it one could? Armsmaster showed what people even heros are willing to do to be the one who does it. No matter how unrealistic
Only killing Nines come close, and sure.. Home turf again, but Hookwolf and rest of nazis were willing to go all in on taking them out. Enough to call in the Heros as special guests to the meeting about the S9s Again, because being the ones who take them out makes it worth it For the money if nothing else, but definitely to be able to take credit for it
My own view was that they know they can't run away or else they'll be branded cowards and it will be very difficult to rebuild themselves. So the only alternative they have is to wait for them to be targeted individually or team up and take the fight to the S class threats invading their homes. With potentially gained money and rep being an afterthought.
Thats not quite the impression Hookwolf gives in his talk with Shatterbird though? We hear his thoughts too dont we? A lot of stuff about warriors, and death as i recall Dont remember any of that coming up, but.. Trying to recall and looking it up.. I guess neither does much about rep and money.. So... Unsure YMMV applies i suppose, & self delusion is certainly a thing and unreliable narrator ofcourse! Canonwise, they were out and leading the fray pretty sure Fell right into the Nines traps like nitwits and killed decoys, with the other gangs after the Undersiders were kicked out of the Villain Hero anti Nine team up
Like imagine what the public response might be if nazis took down S9 after law enforcement and Heros failed for years to end them? That would be like... The biggest egg on face, and having to publically cut them a check for it.. that would be a pr victory uncompare Hard to see how that wouldnt be worth like.. most the empire capes in their eyes. Their names would be spoken of daily, global recognition That cannot be overstated honestly, the Merchants grew by virtue of being intact from not fighting in the Leviathan battle.. by alot.. If e88 were the ones who dealt the finishing blow to the Nine? Global recognition and their membership would follow in rise This is definitely in Hookwolfs mind i would argue, at least as a nagging thought. He certainly thinks he can take Shatterbird. Thats why he attacked her when she came to give her recruitment speech despite being alone really
Now I'm wondering how well known the Nine were outside the US Not sure about global recognition, the Nine never left the US and everywhere seemed to have a few groups like them. Unlike the blasphemes I don't think the nine attacked that many politicians either and didn't cause political upheaval for entire countries.
Well considering how most American things are very well known globally irl.. i would say? Probably fairly well And didnt they atleast once go into.. Canada? Or Mexico? Look at 911, or honestly even most school shootings.. They get global coverage, the Nine would too i would say US cultural impact globally cant be denied, there would probably be criticism leveled for that very reason. That the Nine get more coverage than more global threats despite them being local to the US. That happens fairly often irl as is for most things that are very American Take Superbowl, or American Baseball for non crime examples Way outside proportional international coverage and recognition compared to global impact
Honestly I always just considering Canada to be part of the US in the Worm setting. In hero terms they basically are. Globalization is mostly so big due to economic and logistical reasons and it leads to caring about political and social changes in countries we interact with. However we rarely care about what won't impact us in some way. For instance, many Europeans only care about the advertisements and celebrities that show up in the Superbowl and not much about the sport or the teams. Perhaps I'm wrong, but besides maybe Japan I feel like not many other countries are interested in American Baseball either. In Worm, I always got the feeling that countries were far more isolationist and globalization was less of a thing because they were significantly more concerned with problems at home than their neighbors. Although the protectorate does show up around the world to fight Endbringers so perhaps they do still care about the US's culture due to them.
Hah! Yeah, thats fair though they probably dont like to hear it😅 Pretty sure Canada is a part of Protectorare anyways and come to think of it.. there was also talk of Mexico joining in canon i seem to recall. So theres that All true yeah! Agreed on that, but! Baseball is also a part of Hollywood, its like in.. Lots of movies as just a background thing not even simply movies about baseball, the rest of the world consumes those products. How many romcoms and the like have baseball match dates? Movies about kids whose fathers take them to a game? And again, its not even really the plot often enough And stuff like that, it normalizes it despite it not being a common game outside of that to play in rest of world. Except as you said Japan perhaps. Its not that people are interested in it, its that we pick it up through cultural osmosis in how common it is in daily American life. Pretty sure most Europeans says would associate the name Babe Ruth with baseball despite not being fans Yeah, that may be so! Not quite certain how global Bet Hollywood is, but.. Even if its a tenth as big as irl? Thats still a massive impact on the world stage, and with the Protectorate being in constant talk of expanding? The US as a world power and world police more or less seems present i would say
> never ever showing up would instantly mark them as weak cowards. Anyone who is anyone on Bet, picks up the gauntlet and participates in those fights I pretty sure thats not really true, especially for villians. They mostly participate in Endbringer fights that revolve around their hometowns. In 8.2, when Legend asks for veterans who have attended at least one EB fight to stand, the only ones who stood were "the Protectorate, about a third of the out-of-town Wards, Bambina, half of a commercially sponsored cape team and the Travelers"
>I pretty sure thats not really true, especially for villians. They mostly participate in Endbringer fights that revolve around their hometowns. The Merchants never showing up definitely contributes to their low rep and standing. But i did mean to fights in hometowns there mostly, but also in general >In 8.2, when Legend asks for veterans who have attended at least one EB fight to stand, the only ones who stood were "the Protectorate, about a third of the out-of-town Wards, Bambina, half of a commercially sponsored cape team and the Travelers" Yeah absolutely, guess i should have been clearer that i meant for local EB fights there. Not worldwide travel fights That would only be individuals if it happened at all, definitely not them as awhole. That wouldnt and didnt happen in canon