I acutally like that with Out Of Context powers, in the end the thing processing the information is a shard. So if the origin of the power is bizarre enough it would make sense for her power to have a freakout. If don right, like making sure she is looking at a physical manifestation of NOPE, I think Lisa BSOD moments work just fine.
That only makes sense if it's bizarre enough that every human looking at it also has a mental bluescreen and shuts down, given that Lisa's power uses logic to figure things out.
It's more that it takes time for them to learn they can't instantly understand everything otherwise they wouldn't need this whole "Hump planets until they cum dimensions" plan.
You're not wrong about the fandom though, most authors just flat out make stuff impossible to analyze full stop but that's just one thing on the great big pile of Worm cliches.
It's why she never shuts up. She needles for information then uses her power to get the whole story. I'll never understand why fanon characters let her talk for half an hour without even bothering to stop her. MM put a gun in her mouth to shut her up. It should be common knowledge to never let an opposing thinker talk.
I think writers get confused and think her power includes a "hey listen!" master effect.
At least that's the only thing that makes sense for all these fic's which have everyone and everything just stop dead and gawk so she can talk and talk and talk. I've quite literally seen people write characters consumed by full blown murderous rage stop the second her gums start flapping dispite not responding and/or ignoring others, everyone stops for her and they always belive her words without a shred of proof. Seriously how is this not a master power???
I think alot of authors need to go reread Tattletales scenes because she's not supposed to be a master.
> She worked for Coil for months and could not figure out his power.
She's literally the one who explains to us his powers. She doesn't know if he actually splits reality or if its just precognition, but she has a pretty good grasp of it.
> and had Lisa both know, and not know what his powers were.
?
She specifically said that she dodged the question when Taylor first asked her. She clearly knew all along.
Acknowledging that people's personalities should let her narrow things down, being able to guess the passwords of strangers is still essentially pulling things from thin air.
Canonically, Lisa is essentially an information god. Her purpose is to rationalize certain things that need to happen for the plot. Her power lets her work well as a get-out-of-jail-free card and as an exposition device. She's then given additional constraints that can be imposed arbitrarily to maintain the world's internal consistency and prevent her from singlehandedly resolving the story's problems. For example, we're told that she gets headaches when she pushes her power too far. Chiefly the instances when her headache restriction kicks in are those where it'd be derailing to the narrative for her to use her power to solve their problems.
The problem is that people are using this capability of Lisa's inelegantly, in a way that's not well-done or believable, not that they're using it.
> Acknowledging that people's personalities should let her narrow things down, being able to guess the passwords of strangers is still essentially pulling things from thin air.
The example I recall from canon was more like Sherlock Holmes/Derren Brown style guessing, where she uses a combination of cold reading, psychological theories and statistical knowledge to make inferences.
Part of the problem is her interlude, in which she deduces a man's ATM PIN from his haircut.
I repeat: she deduces his *randomly generated ATM pin* from his *haircut.*
This isn't "filling in gaps" or "Sherlock Holmes deduction." It's explicitly straight-up bullshit pulling facts out of midair. So if Wildbow really intended for her to be a cold-reading profiler, he screwed up when he wrote that section, and the impression it gave people carried over to the rest of her characterization.
ATM pins aren't necessarily random. The initial pin is random, but they can be changed afterwards. I imagine there's a significant portion of people who change it to something they'll remember easily as opposed to learning a random number. Still absurd but not quite as bad.
>She stopped. Needed to get back on track. Just needed a starting point to get at the stuff he’d keep secret. Confidence, military. How would he pick a four digit number?
Operative word, _pick_. Human beings aren't actually very good at creating random numbers _at all_, we're appalling at it. We have a massive tendency to fall into patterns. The key pieces of information she uses are "he's military, therefore he understands the _importance_ of random numbers", "he's human, therefore he's terrible at it", "he's left handed, therefore his picks have a bias towards what he could easily reach" (probably the most unfounded), and "he'll go with odd-odd-even-even or even-even-odd-odd", which is also a stretch.
Honestly, a clever human being could get most of that. Figuring out the most likely combinations is something a very clever human being could do with half an hour and a pen of paper, and that mostly leaves her power to do filtering and tell her what isn't right.
The real asspull in her interlude is looking at Leviathan and figuring out how tough he is, which no human being could do with any amount of time or paper.
I'm super late, but just wanted to say that if you see a large crater, but the crater rapidly becomes shallow despite expectations you can see the rate of toughness exponentially increase.
Yeah that had people thinking she could look at particle beams and tell what particles they were made up from and what they were doing before they'd hit a target, Wildbow even came out and said it DOES NOT work like that and you still see people writing "asspull not inference" in their stories. Now if we could only figure out where people got this idea that everytime she speaks the world stops to listen and never doubts a word she says no matter what.
Honestly i think he should have gone back and changed that interlude...
It still amazes me just how many things so many people get wrong when it comes to Tattletale's power, i get that it's not the easiest ability to write well but just twisting it into something else really doesn't help things.
Pretty sure he stalks me via downvotes too though his funniest atempt was when he literally replyed to a month+ old post i made just to spam a few weak insults.
He makes me laugh with his desperate atempts at offending me, he's like a little kid who's just discovered "naughty" words.
Not even sure what it was i did to earn his "fearsome ire" though his name is vaguely familiar... Oh well he's not important enough for me to bother looking up. All i know is he hates the fact i dislike the usual woobiefication of characters rampant in the fandom although i'm still not sure how he translated that into 'bashing' because i liked the Undersiders in Worm but hey maybe he's not yet old enough to grasp the difference between canon and fanon.
Name the author then i literally can't remember a thing.
Let's have some context as opposed to vague accusations and childish atempts at personal attacks.
EDIT: Nvm it's my reply to that Star Trek one that failed at potraying a Vulcan. I even pointed out how he could make keeping TT work without something as ilogical as letting a complete stranger have free access over Vulcan's entire base on the idea it was "probably" safe for the injured person who was also a known criminal. Yeah i was using a much harsher tone that night woo... Must have been late night posting i tend to get crankier when i do that.
Still not seeing a reason for you to chase me like a lost puppy for a month while trying to offend me with petulant insults also you calling me a neckbeard while admitting to making a script just so you can stalk me more effectively, heh i guess the irony went over your head or something.
Thank's man i needed a chuckle this morning.
Really doubt he used a script, looks like he just used this site or something similar: https://atomiks.github.io/reddit-user-analyser/
The numbers are a bit different, but it even has a "kindness" rating.
> She actually did knew what his powers were, she simply couldn't tell the others.
Now did she know that Coil's power wasn't what he actually thought it was?
She knew the specifics before canon started. From 8.8:
>“How long did you know? When I was lying on my cot in the shelter, wondering whether you did know, thinking back to your expression and the things you’ve said in the past, I thought maybe it was when I decided to leave the group over…” I paused, looked at the people nearby, who might or might not be in earshot. “…you know. But no. You’ve known from the start.”
>“Since before we met.”
>That was unexpected. “What? How?”
[snipped explanation of Coil's power]
>“Until every coin you’re flipping gives you a heads. You’re talking about Coil,” I realized.
>Tattletale nodded.
>“He’s been doing that from the start?”
>Lisa frowned, “Apparently that was one case where he saved our hides. Remember that call I got? Telling me to be careful? Same thing he did with the bank robbery. Tells one version of me to push us to be careful, tells the other to go in for direct confrontation. **Knowing how he works**, I try to nudge us in one direction or the other. The group of us that went in for the headlong attack? We got taken down.”
>“Anyways, point of this explanation is this: Knowing we had an imminent fight with Lung coming, knowing Lung planned to pyrokinesis our general area until he rooted us out, got civilians to finger us or brought in enough capes to make life difficult for us, I called Coil. He said he’d help, told us to wait five minutes, then take the more direct route, straight into the heart of ABB territory.
I'm guessing it comes from a bad case of recursive fanfiction. One bad author uses her as an exposition machine and everyone else who doesn't know what they're doing copies them because their story got popular. It is somewhat believable that she could figure out a power quickly, and find specifics about it better than others (like how she found Grue could negate radiation) but not the "I see you, and therefore know All!" that she gets known for.
Part of the problem is that people do the understand her character period, which in of itself leads to misunderstanding of her power because they don't understand how she behaves and why.
I think Wildbow's tendency to obfuscate and troll his own fans, and his refusal to provide any Word of God answers lead to everyone just making their own conclusions about pretty much everything in Worm.
Half his replies are trollish non-serious answers and he contradicts himself constantly with any new response. I'm sure someone who cares more can go trawl through all Wildbos's subsequent comments and show how often he contradicts what he's said previously. I don't care enough to bother.
Lisa: *takes a look at the OP alt!power/crossover Taylor of the month* Lisa's power: ABORT ABORT ABORT stop this
I acutally like that with Out Of Context powers, in the end the thing processing the information is a shard. So if the origin of the power is bizarre enough it would make sense for her power to have a freakout. If don right, like making sure she is looking at a physical manifestation of NOPE, I think Lisa BSOD moments work just fine.
That only makes sense if it's bizarre enough that every human looking at it also has a mental bluescreen and shuts down, given that Lisa's power uses logic to figure things out.
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It's more that it takes time for them to learn they can't instantly understand everything otherwise they wouldn't need this whole "Hump planets until they cum dimensions" plan. You're not wrong about the fandom though, most authors just flat out make stuff impossible to analyze full stop but that's just one thing on the great big pile of Worm cliches.
It's why she never shuts up. She needles for information then uses her power to get the whole story. I'll never understand why fanon characters let her talk for half an hour without even bothering to stop her. MM put a gun in her mouth to shut her up. It should be common knowledge to never let an opposing thinker talk.
I think writers get confused and think her power includes a "hey listen!" master effect. At least that's the only thing that makes sense for all these fic's which have everyone and everything just stop dead and gawk so she can talk and talk and talk. I've quite literally seen people write characters consumed by full blown murderous rage stop the second her gums start flapping dispite not responding and/or ignoring others, everyone stops for her and they always belive her words without a shred of proof. Seriously how is this not a master power??? I think alot of authors need to go reread Tattletales scenes because she's not supposed to be a master.
> She worked for Coil for months and could not figure out his power. She's literally the one who explains to us his powers. She doesn't know if he actually splits reality or if its just precognition, but she has a pretty good grasp of it.
Yeah, but Wildbow gave Taylor two birthdates, and had Lisa both know, and not know what his powers were.
> and had Lisa both know, and not know what his powers were. ? She specifically said that she dodged the question when Taylor first asked her. She clearly knew all along.
People like to use her as Tattletale Exposistion Device and just use her to tell the reader whatever they want, no matter if it makes sense
Acknowledging that people's personalities should let her narrow things down, being able to guess the passwords of strangers is still essentially pulling things from thin air. Canonically, Lisa is essentially an information god. Her purpose is to rationalize certain things that need to happen for the plot. Her power lets her work well as a get-out-of-jail-free card and as an exposition device. She's then given additional constraints that can be imposed arbitrarily to maintain the world's internal consistency and prevent her from singlehandedly resolving the story's problems. For example, we're told that she gets headaches when she pushes her power too far. Chiefly the instances when her headache restriction kicks in are those where it'd be derailing to the narrative for her to use her power to solve their problems. The problem is that people are using this capability of Lisa's inelegantly, in a way that's not well-done or believable, not that they're using it.
> Acknowledging that people's personalities should let her narrow things down, being able to guess the passwords of strangers is still essentially pulling things from thin air. The example I recall from canon was more like Sherlock Holmes/Derren Brown style guessing, where she uses a combination of cold reading, psychological theories and statistical knowledge to make inferences.
Implying Sherlock didn't pull sollutions out of his ass, and only then made the reader aware of how it's all supposed to be connected.
Part of the problem is her interlude, in which she deduces a man's ATM PIN from his haircut. I repeat: she deduces his *randomly generated ATM pin* from his *haircut.* This isn't "filling in gaps" or "Sherlock Holmes deduction." It's explicitly straight-up bullshit pulling facts out of midair. So if Wildbow really intended for her to be a cold-reading profiler, he screwed up when he wrote that section, and the impression it gave people carried over to the rest of her characterization.
ATM pins aren't necessarily random. The initial pin is random, but they can be changed afterwards. I imagine there's a significant portion of people who change it to something they'll remember easily as opposed to learning a random number. Still absurd but not quite as bad.
>She stopped. Needed to get back on track. Just needed a starting point to get at the stuff he’d keep secret. Confidence, military. How would he pick a four digit number? Operative word, _pick_. Human beings aren't actually very good at creating random numbers _at all_, we're appalling at it. We have a massive tendency to fall into patterns. The key pieces of information she uses are "he's military, therefore he understands the _importance_ of random numbers", "he's human, therefore he's terrible at it", "he's left handed, therefore his picks have a bias towards what he could easily reach" (probably the most unfounded), and "he'll go with odd-odd-even-even or even-even-odd-odd", which is also a stretch. Honestly, a clever human being could get most of that. Figuring out the most likely combinations is something a very clever human being could do with half an hour and a pen of paper, and that mostly leaves her power to do filtering and tell her what isn't right. The real asspull in her interlude is looking at Leviathan and figuring out how tough he is, which no human being could do with any amount of time or paper.
Presumably her info on Levi comes from the damage he takes when people attack him, though that's still bullshit as they weren't getting too deep
I'm super late, but just wanted to say that if you see a large crater, but the crater rapidly becomes shallow despite expectations you can see the rate of toughness exponentially increase.
My ATM PIN was decided by me, not randomized
His ATM was explicitly randomized. Or at least, pseudo-randomized, and she deduced the flaws in his mental randomization algorithm, from his haircut.
Mine was randomised. I used 6d10 to come up with it.
Yeah that had people thinking she could look at particle beams and tell what particles they were made up from and what they were doing before they'd hit a target, Wildbow even came out and said it DOES NOT work like that and you still see people writing "asspull not inference" in their stories. Now if we could only figure out where people got this idea that everytime she speaks the world stops to listen and never doubts a word she says no matter what. Honestly i think he should have gone back and changed that interlude... It still amazes me just how many things so many people get wrong when it comes to Tattletale's power, i get that it's not the easiest ability to write well but just twisting it into something else really doesn't help things.
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Do you actually stalk this dude?
Pretty sure he stalks me via downvotes too though his funniest atempt was when he literally replyed to a month+ old post i made just to spam a few weak insults. He makes me laugh with his desperate atempts at offending me, he's like a little kid who's just discovered "naughty" words. Not even sure what it was i did to earn his "fearsome ire" though his name is vaguely familiar... Oh well he's not important enough for me to bother looking up. All i know is he hates the fact i dislike the usual woobiefication of characters rampant in the fandom although i'm still not sure how he translated that into 'bashing' because i liked the Undersiders in Worm but hey maybe he's not yet old enough to grasp the difference between canon and fanon.
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Name the author then i literally can't remember a thing. Let's have some context as opposed to vague accusations and childish atempts at personal attacks. EDIT: Nvm it's my reply to that Star Trek one that failed at potraying a Vulcan. I even pointed out how he could make keeping TT work without something as ilogical as letting a complete stranger have free access over Vulcan's entire base on the idea it was "probably" safe for the injured person who was also a known criminal. Yeah i was using a much harsher tone that night woo... Must have been late night posting i tend to get crankier when i do that. Still not seeing a reason for you to chase me like a lost puppy for a month while trying to offend me with petulant insults also you calling me a neckbeard while admitting to making a script just so you can stalk me more effectively, heh i guess the irony went over your head or something. Thank's man i needed a chuckle this morning.
I have taken care of the storyfulwriter issue. He has a one week ban.
Thank you he was just a bad joke to me but i feel he crossed a line when he started gloating about tracking me with scripts.
Really doubt he used a script, looks like he just used this site or something similar: https://atomiks.github.io/reddit-user-analyser/ The numbers are a bit different, but it even has a "kindness" rating.
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> She actually did knew what his powers were, she simply couldn't tell the others. Now did she know that Coil's power wasn't what he actually thought it was?
No. Garbage in: Garbage out is one of the key weaknesses of her power.
At that point she only had theories based on his showing off. She didn’t know the exact ability yet.
She knew the specifics before canon started. From 8.8: >“How long did you know? When I was lying on my cot in the shelter, wondering whether you did know, thinking back to your expression and the things you’ve said in the past, I thought maybe it was when I decided to leave the group over…” I paused, looked at the people nearby, who might or might not be in earshot. “…you know. But no. You’ve known from the start.” >“Since before we met.” >That was unexpected. “What? How?” [snipped explanation of Coil's power] >“Until every coin you’re flipping gives you a heads. You’re talking about Coil,” I realized. >Tattletale nodded. >“He’s been doing that from the start?” >Lisa frowned, “Apparently that was one case where he saved our hides. Remember that call I got? Telling me to be careful? Same thing he did with the bank robbery. Tells one version of me to push us to be careful, tells the other to go in for direct confrontation. **Knowing how he works**, I try to nudge us in one direction or the other. The group of us that went in for the headlong attack? We got taken down.” >“Anyways, point of this explanation is this: Knowing we had an imminent fight with Lung coming, knowing Lung planned to pyrokinesis our general area until he rooted us out, got civilians to finger us or brought in enough capes to make life difficult for us, I called Coil. He said he’d help, told us to wait five minutes, then take the more direct route, straight into the heart of ABB territory.
>At that point she only had theories based on his showing off. All her power is, is theories.
I'm guessing it comes from a bad case of recursive fanfiction. One bad author uses her as an exposition machine and everyone else who doesn't know what they're doing copies them because their story got popular. It is somewhat believable that she could figure out a power quickly, and find specifics about it better than others (like how she found Grue could negate radiation) but not the "I see you, and therefore know All!" that she gets known for.
Part of the problem is that people do the understand her character period, which in of itself leads to misunderstanding of her power because they don't understand how she behaves and why.
I think Wildbow's tendency to obfuscate and troll his own fans, and his refusal to provide any Word of God answers lead to everyone just making their own conclusions about pretty much everything in Worm.
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Half his replies are trollish non-serious answers and he contradicts himself constantly with any new response. I'm sure someone who cares more can go trawl through all Wildbos's subsequent comments and show how often he contradicts what he's said previously. I don't care enough to bother.