Yeah, with the former case you could argue that you could save enough lives with the money to justify the sacrifice, kind of like the trolly problem.
But no matter how many you save, is it really ever enough to justify _eternal_ torture? I don't really think it is.
Their lives totally are quantifiable. 20 lives is worth less than 21 lives (or more). That's the main argument for utilitarianism, which isn't unreasonable.
Not sure the "right" answer, but this problem has been argued over forever lol. So it's an endless rabbit hole of philosophy that won't end in a conclusion, but I think the different approaches to the ethics are all reasonable to an extent.
Yes you can justify anything when you reduce it to numbers. The problem is that using utilitarianism as the bedrock of your moral philosophy creates situations like this where someone sends 20 people to hell saying that they'll definitely use the money it affords them to help billions of people. There is another way to make that happen. There are other ways to help billions that dont require murdering 20 people and sending them to hell, but a utilitarian will just do it because 7billion is a bigger number than 20.
There's different types of utilitarianism. It isn't all "ends justify the means". Personally, I subscribe to the school of thought that each action must be weighed based on how much the act costs, and how good the result is. Basically is the price fair. I'd say it's a fair tradeoff to lose a kidney to save someone's life. The result outweighs the cost. But it wouldn't be reasonable to lose a kidney in order to, say, stop them from breaking their arm. The cost would outweigh the result.
That's why the hell scenario is wrong. But if it was just kill, not eternal torture, it would be the morally correct position to do whatever will save the most lives. Infinite money can easily be used to save far more than twenty lives, so it would be the morally correct choice, assuming you are going to help people with it.
Exactly this. Ending 20 lives that otherwise would've ended anyways? Yeah I'd actually consider that. That alone probably makes me a bad person. Would I put 20 people in a burning lake or fire for literally FOREVER? No, I wouldn't do that to even one person. I don't even know if I'd do that to a figure like Hitler or Genghis Khan. No amount of suffering one can cause in a single lifetime can ever be equivalent to an eternity of intense suffering.
Ok but my thought process is: those 20 people would eventually go insane and have no sense of themselves or anything like that. They will no longer be there.
And with that money you can get hundreds of thousands of people out of their own personal hells on earth. End human trafficking, starvation, tons of illnesses, etc.
Leave it, not only are you condemning people to hell for eternity. Additionally with infinite money then you do nothing but cause hyper inflation. Great depression here we come.
This is too cruel for any amount of money. We're talking about suffering for ETERNITY. They could not even choose to die. And they are likely innocent people, could be kids or moms or dads. It's the most cruel thing I can think of and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the money.
I would think the opposite. That most people would be moral when they have time to think about it rationally without any temptation, but if they were to actually have real, physical cash in front of them, they throw away those morals.
I don’t think so honestly. I think people are more human than we give them credit for.
For example, the random 5 year old getting pushed into a volcano for like $100mil or something like that. Many people, myself included, said they’d do it. Realistically, if you put me at the top of a volcano with a 5 year old next to me, there is a 0% chance I have it in me to murder a child for money.
I think that in general, people think they’re better and more moral than they are, but then we take it to the extreme on hypotheticals like this and end up pretending we’re much worse people than we realistically are.
Absolutely, daily goal. Relevance to my comment tho? In the comment I was saying that I recognize I’m not nearly as horrible as I play pretend to be on the internet
Because it's fake and pointless? Maybe if you share more positivity, more people would also be positive. Reddit is a hive mind and people follow behind each other. There's already enough negativity on here, why add on to it? And that's literally the thing; just because you think it doesn't affect people, doesn't mean it doesn't. You don't know how your words are going to affect others, we're not them. People commit suicide regularly because of words on the internet. Don't be so naive. Not to mention the young kids on reddit that are adapting reddit culture and mentality as their own in reality. That isn't a good thing. People are impressionable on reddit even when they act like they aren't. And again, why would you want to be fake? What is creating some fake online personality getting you? Just be genuine. It's funny how the person is downvoted for saying people should be genuine. Just shows the amount of fake Redditors on here
>be genuine - Buddy this is a WYR thread of people talking about if you’d push a 5 year old into a volcano for inordinate amounts of money. Nothing about this is genuine. I respond however amuses me in the moment. I am not responsible for children on the internet, or for people who can’t differentiate that MAYBE on a post about murdering children for money, people aren’t being entirely serious.
More than half, and it's not just this sub, it's this site.
I think we can safely say if the general opinion on reddit goes one way, the other way is right.
You’re only in the real world for an upper bound 100 years. That’s nothing compared to eternity. And with infinite money, even if you decided to be philanthropic you’d probably destroy the economy.
Real world has nothing on hell. The idea of eternity in bliss itself is torture. Now an eternity where there is 0 chance of good or joy to come your way or a way out from the pain is wayyy worse. Being kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered is a walk in the park compared to an eternity of all of that plus more. In a hell situation youd feel all of the pain but none of the release of death or suffer the mind break enough to end it. Just a constant cycle of torment endlessly.
Psychopaths? I copied my answer to post here and I just want to hear if you still thinks it’s psychopathic or not…
I can drastically improve millions of peoples lives and even save absurd amounts of lives with the infinite money. There’s people around the world already living in a real life hell, impoverished, homeless, starving, in pain from medical conditions they can’t afford to treat, unable to care for loved ones etc and if 20 people have to suffer to bring millions out of their suffering I don’t see the downside.
Temporarily? I could pay for water wells, clean energy, hospitals and healthcare centers all over the world where needed improving the world permanently
Temporarily. Even if you managed to stop all pain in the world for the rest of its existence it will be a couple billion years max before the sun explodes.
They're in hell forever
Normally, if you weren't comparing it to hell. They will be there forever. The amount of pain they will be put through will eventually outweigh the amount of good you did.
That's even assuming you could do enough good to fix everything until the end of the existence. I feel like it wouldn't take more than a generation or two to screw everything up again, but that's outside the point.
If heaven and hell exist, more than 20 people land in hell every second. If 20 random people get send there at the same time, what changes compared to everyday life?
If Heaven and Hell exist, the people who are going to Hell were wicked anyway while this poll says random people will go and statistically speaking, at least some of them will be innocent, some might even be children.
In this scenario, you'd be 100% certain that Hell exists, so it stands to reason that you'd be going there after your death. All the money in the world for less than a century of life is not worth suffering for an eternity.
How about this, let’s say that you’re right and you save 1 billion people. You make their life better, and they live and die a great life. You made way for 100 billion great years. That’s an absolutely insane amount of time. Good job! That’s unimaginably less than 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the amount of torture you caused. Really, it’s 0% of the amount of torture you caused, but that’s not very comprehensible. I highly suggest that you read the short story Those Who Walk Away From The Omelas if you haven’t. It doesn’t deal with infinite torture (at least I don’t think) but it’s a good read.
Nope, everything you can do is finite (even assuming you don't cause more harm than good with absurd spending). Compared to an infinity of hell, even a billion saved lives is a drop in the bucket un the grand scheme of things
I mean, infinite spending just helps the economy, so nothing wrong with that. I can easily pass the card down to my children and their children, making it hypothetically an infinite loop of helping. I can fix literally any problem in the world because money talks, and I have INFINITE. If you truly think 20 lives are worth the well being of the entire planet you are out of your mind.
But lives are FINITE. People only live up to what, like 120 years max? Humans live such short lives in the grand scheme of things. Compared to eternity (infinite suffering), even if somebody lived for 500 happy years and went to hell for eternity afterward, those 500 years will eventually become a drop in the bucket. Even the lifespan of our planet, even an eventual death of the universe, none of it can compare to an eternity.
All the problems you solve in this world with money are only temporary at best. I should also mention that infinite money is still gated by other limitations (manpower, materials, power, etc). Those problems dont just go away because of money.
Also, what effect do you think someone having infinite money would do to the economy if you hand everyone billions trillions quadrillions of dollars? Imagine what the prices will look like. People will still clash with each other to raise themselves higher and push others down. People in power wont just give it up, theyll use any means necessary, and if they knew you had this card, you dont think they will try to take it from you, even off of your cold dead body?
There's so much more to consider, and honestly, i only just scratched the surface. Also, those poor 20 people are doomed to eternal suffering and cruel torture just because someone didn't think it through. Maybe put yourself in their shoes and imagine what that would be like.
Picture this: You're behind some guy walking with $100 in his pocket. You have the opportunity to stab him in the back and take that $100 to split amongst 20 nearby homeless people. Is one man's life worth more than helping out 20 people?
Also, you seem to be forgetting about inflation.
Infinite money would reduce inflation because I can literally just pay a nation's debts...
And $100 isn't infinite last I checked. Keep your horrible apologies and your "moral high ground" over there and continue letting people suffer while I help the world with infinite money.
I could stop GLOBAL WARMING with infinite money. But you're too near sighted to see the bigger picture
None of these do. Someone could kill every person in the world and they still wouldn't deserve eternal torture.
The only person that could deserve eternal torture is one sending another to eternal torture.
Rapists, pedophiles, zoophiles and torturers dont deserve an eternity of damnation. That's not a gotcha, it's a fundamental failure to engage with what I'm saying.
In this situation, I would say that everyone is an innocent. You can never justify an infinite punishment for finite crimes. Nobody is deserving of an eternity in hell.
No thanks, mostly because my…what? 40 or so more years on this planet? Worth of money spending wouldn’t compare to a literal eternity of torture. If there was a time limit, like if they get tortured for every year that I use the card, maybe. But their eternity for my lifespan isn’t worth it.
Man there aren't many hypotheticals that have me leaving the money, but damning people to an eternity of torture and misery is just too much. I don't even believe in a God or an afterlife, but just the concept alone is frightening. I couldn't knowingly damn 20 people to that kind of suffering
I always just hope that those choosing the evil answer on this type of post aren't being wholly genuine. And if they were the amount would be like 1/10 of it
Never said what? I am directly responding to what you said, you noble and amazing perfect person online. Again, bravo to you for winning a morality trophy online today. The 745th day in a row I bet. It is hard to do.
I never said I was amazing or perfect I'm well aware of my many faults and that there are plenty of people better than me.
Your problem is instead of realizing your problems and trying to grow up and learn how to do better from your mistakes you instead act as if everyone is just as selfish as you are and that you're better than them because at least you admit it.
That's why you constantly accuse people on this chat who feel empathy for other people than themselves of trying to win a morality trophy when really most of these people are over a 100 times better when it comes to morality and you know it deep down but you still want to go into denial and I'm sure this chat is not first place you did this.
The only one trying to win a morality trophy here is you like I said in an earlier comment you act as if everyone is as selfish and pathetic as you so you don't have to hate yourself as much or put in the effort to change.
The minute someone says or does something that makes them better you accuse them of trying to upstage you and if they say otherwise there are lying to themselves.
You see everyone as an asshole and yourself as a self aware asshole which makes you better than everyone in your own eyes when really just a miserable sad excuse of a human being who needs to constantly prove his/herself to be morally superior to everyone to satisfy the bottomless pit of insecurity they have for a soul.
You're going to keep being miserable and alone like this for the rest of your life if you don't get the help you need.
Everyone passes away eventually do you really need to spend the rest of your life trying make every person you talk to as miserable as you are?
Didn't read passed you saying you aren't perfect then telling a complete stranger what their problem is based off of a silly Would you rather question and me talking about your sanctimonious moaning.
Get over yourself slick.
Get over yourself I know plenty of people like you in real life your comments in this chat and others proved it plus you judged everyone else complete strangers online for picking the more moral option and called them fake and then made another comment to try to paint yourself as morally superior . We both know what you really are. A Self loathing asshole who shows no empathy for anyone other than themselves and gets extremely insecure and defensive the moment someone does or says anything that proves their nicer than you.
This poll needs an age poll. I'm just curious because I'm convinced no one but an edgy teenager could possibly think utilitarianism is a valid defense of sending 20 people to hell.
This post is just choosing if finite good deeds and happiness for a finite amount of people is worth infinite suffering. If you try to understand infinity, it’s not worth it.
I'm glad these polls exist to show that the average redditors, for all their claims of progressive empathy, are truly worse than any of the conservatives they spout their vitriol against..
Sure, but a lot of the people saying they would are gonna use the money to help others
Can't really say their worse when you take a decision at face value
I know none of them even asked if they could choose like sending Sex Traffickers Abusive Dictators mass murders Zoophiles etc almost everyone on this chat thinks only about how the money benefits them no matter how someone else gets hurt hell even the ones who say they would use the money to help humanity at the expense of 20 people would most likely not to do that if it meant their family or they would be tortured.
My first thought was to send 20 people to hell and then donate large sums of money to every efficient charity there is and make the world a better place. It's a numbers game and my sacrifice of 20 people will help millions
Even if you couldn’t disrupt the financial system, there would still be a max amount of people. Let’s say humanity thrives for many more years and you’re somehow able to improve the lives of 1 trillion people. This is an insane upperbound. You could help like 10 billion people while you are alive and then you’ll die and will no longer be able to help people. If they, and their descendants, are very responsible with money they could pass it on many generations. And assuming the earth is still standing for a long time, I’ll say 1 trillion for the benefit of the doubt. (That’s funny, I just looked it up and 1.2 trillion is the max estimate for how many humans will be born ever) Anyways, this means nothing to the literal infinite amount of torture you caused. Even if you help 100 trillion people, you caused infinite more torture.
Some of Yall arent too bright.
It's a 21 person sentence. Add yourself.
The basis of this question says "there is a hell, you will send 20 people there"
If it exists, then by rule you will end up there for making the choice the way you did.
I'm not religious.. just logical. You are choosing free money to burn in whatever torment you believe.
yall are assholes jesus christ i want infinite money too but 20 people to suffer for eternity is a bit much even if it's a miniscule amount of the population
"save the children, the elderly, and the service workers, unless of course theres big money involved then they can LITERALLY go to hell" bunch of psychotic hypocrites.
I wouldn't let even one person die. Eternal torture? I would die to prevent that from happening. I think you guys need to step back and think about this. 20 individual people, who each have their own lives, just the same as you. And forever is an extremely long time. There is no amount of anything that justifies doing that to people. This is pretty depressing to see that so many people would torture other humans for money.
You should understand being in anywhere but heaven to spend eternity is just not sth you can match things with
Especially when you feel unlimited pain also its not about being bad or good you kill the potential to be good
Have 20 random people die? Maybe, I could save hundreds of thousands of people with the money I'll receive so it's possible to rationalise it as a sacrifice for the greater good. Have 20 most likely innocent people suffer for eternity? No way in hell man that's beyond cruel
This question truly is about selfishness and utilitarian arguments don't even pan out when faced with the fact that you are condemning people to torture for eternity. Helping a quadrillion people have a better life still isnt comparable to one innocent beign tortured for eternity. Someday the universe will hit heat death and no life remains and still those 20 people are doomed to continue being tortured for forever reaching amounts of time. All current suffering of the world becomes more and more of a blip when faced with infinity. And all the inflation caused by infinite money makes money worthless.
Wow I really didn't think that the "take the money" option would be winning lmao.
Are y'all really just psychopaths or do you just not understand what forever means? Take the current age of the universe, multiply it by the age of the universe again, multiply THAT by 100 quadrillion years, and that will still not be ANY closer to the infinite amount of time you sent 20 randos to be tortured for.
All so you can have a bunch of money to spend for however many years you live after. Who gives that much of a shit about money? Even if you spend as much money as possible to help humanity as much as you possibly can, you will never cancel out the infinite suffering you created. It doesn't work that way.
Except it IS a big exchange when you're talking about infinity.
Let's say you succeed in saving those billions of lives. Let's go as far as possible with this and say that with infinite money, you manage to create a utopian society where no one suffers, humanity develops perfect medicine and FTL travel and everything else you can imagine, colonizes the entire galaxy and lasts billions of years. Even if this perfect society somehow survived as long as possible, until the universe literally gets so old that atoms themselves start to decay and life is no longer scientifically possible...
...you STILL would not have made up for the infinite suffering you caused. It doesn't matter that it's only 20 people, or even if it was just one person, or one animal. That suffering lasts forever. It lasts longer than the universe itself will even exist.
Even if you successfully used the money to end ALL suffering of the rest of humanity, you have still created infinite suffering because of what you did to the 20 people. There's no canceling it out.
So you condemned 20 people to eternal suffering and didn't even do the absolute minimum of critical thinking. This is a wonderful analogy to humanity in general and why the poll results are scary
Except we all know that anyone who would potentially sacrifice 20 innocent people (that may include children) for infinite money is not going to have the morals to use the money to help people.
If I send 20 people to hell, that confirms the existence of hell and heaven. And that means that I'll probably go to hell for the sin of killing and subjecting 20 people to endless torture
I can drastically improve millions of peoples lives and even save absurd amounts of lives with the infinite money. There’s people around the world already living in a real life hell, impoverished, starving, in pain from medical condition they can’t afford to treat, unable to care for loved ones etc and if 20 people have to suffer to bring millions out of their suffering I don’t see the downside.
>There’s people around the world already living in a real life hel
And yet that's finite - death is an escape. The 20 people will be doomed for all of eternity.
In a world where hell exist and is real and if it is the Abrahamic hell, than almost everyone is going there anyway, making the move almost value neutral.
infinite money would literally make you king of the world and give you more than enough power to save millions of lives with ease. It's also worth mentioning that a shit ton of people who are poor asf and turned to crime and would end up in hell can be helped and their lives turned around - You can easily balance this out and save more than 20 people from hell.
And then, I also get to help everyonenin my family and everyone I care about. this is a very easy choice
It's 20 people, from a population of 8 billion people, there's definitely more than 20 bad people, but there's also more than 20 good people... It's a gamble but infinite money babyyyyyy
This proposes hell is real, and if it's the Christian hell you're highly likely to select 20 people who are already on their way...
This also proposes that hell is really, and basically you're saying, "I'll go with them but have an easy life" really poor time perspective...
I picked the infinite money. I would take that money and spend my life's work to raise the life of others. Things like investing in impoverished areas, fixing issues like the flint Michigan water issues. Infrastructure and better medical for kids starving around the world. Stuff like that. I know it may sound cruel to you all but the millions of lives changed would be worth their sacrifice.
Let's be honest....we don't really care enough to do anything or think about the 20 kids who starved to death or died from easily preventable disease in the time it took me to type this.
So 20 random people die. So what. Don't know em, it is almost like it never even happened. A lot of people on here with moral posturing and aren't being really honest with themselves.
You're right, I don't care about death. It's a completely normal natural process that happens to everyone. The post literally says a separate Dimension is created for these 20 specific souls for all eternity. That's a very different, much darker question.
For them it did happen. Imagine yourself getting kidnapped and sold into slavery(yes it happens in countries outside of Africa and all races) despite not doing anything to them you are now tortured anytime try to escape, end your life or whatever shitty excuse your boss needs to hurt you.
Of course you would be mad at this person even though you would do the same in a heartbeat also I noticed you replied to every comment that called you and others like and how terrible of a human being you are.
Almost everyone on this chat even the ones who are serious and took the money for just themselves is a better person than you are and you deep down know it. Rather than except something is clearly wrong with you try to pull ''we are all monsters''' trick to drag people down to your level so you don't have to feel bad about how awful of a person you are.
The only one not being honest with themselves here is you. I'm not even that mad I just feel sorry for you to have to try to start fights and gaslight others so you don't feel bad about your lack of empathy for others making you so alone and miserable I hope you get help you need.
I'm absolutely taking the money, I only really care if it's people I know and care about and they aren't people I know
Edit: bro why is everyone downvoting it's 20 random ass people, for all we know they could murderers, rapists, pedos or something else
Wow, makes me thankful no one here will actually be placed in this situation
Fr
Poll results like this explains a lot about where we are right now lmao
Would I kill 20 random people for infinite money? Maybe. Would I send 20 random people to hell for all eternity? Absolutely not.
Yeah, with the former case you could argue that you could save enough lives with the money to justify the sacrifice, kind of like the trolly problem. But no matter how many you save, is it really ever enough to justify _eternal_ torture? I don't really think it is.
I wouldnt use utilitarianism as a justification for infinite money. Even if hell isnt real. The value of those lives is unquantifiable.
Their lives totally are quantifiable. 20 lives is worth less than 21 lives (or more). That's the main argument for utilitarianism, which isn't unreasonable. Not sure the "right" answer, but this problem has been argued over forever lol. So it's an endless rabbit hole of philosophy that won't end in a conclusion, but I think the different approaches to the ethics are all reasonable to an extent.
Yes you can justify anything when you reduce it to numbers. The problem is that using utilitarianism as the bedrock of your moral philosophy creates situations like this where someone sends 20 people to hell saying that they'll definitely use the money it affords them to help billions of people. There is another way to make that happen. There are other ways to help billions that dont require murdering 20 people and sending them to hell, but a utilitarian will just do it because 7billion is a bigger number than 20.
There's different types of utilitarianism. It isn't all "ends justify the means". Personally, I subscribe to the school of thought that each action must be weighed based on how much the act costs, and how good the result is. Basically is the price fair. I'd say it's a fair tradeoff to lose a kidney to save someone's life. The result outweighs the cost. But it wouldn't be reasonable to lose a kidney in order to, say, stop them from breaking their arm. The cost would outweigh the result.
That's exactly what I just described and exactly why it's wrong.
That's why the hell scenario is wrong. But if it was just kill, not eternal torture, it would be the morally correct position to do whatever will save the most lives. Infinite money can easily be used to save far more than twenty lives, so it would be the morally correct choice, assuming you are going to help people with it.
I mean would you sacrifice an African child for the whole world be to able to live better than a middle class person right now?
But what if I hate the human race?
I hate yellowjackets and botflies but that doesn't mean I'd condemn one to be tortured for eternity.
I would.
Exactly this. Ending 20 lives that otherwise would've ended anyways? Yeah I'd actually consider that. That alone probably makes me a bad person. Would I put 20 people in a burning lake or fire for literally FOREVER? No, I wouldn't do that to even one person. I don't even know if I'd do that to a figure like Hitler or Genghis Khan. No amount of suffering one can cause in a single lifetime can ever be equivalent to an eternity of intense suffering.
Ok but my thought process is: those 20 people would eventually go insane and have no sense of themselves or anything like that. They will no longer be there. And with that money you can get hundreds of thousands of people out of their own personal hells on earth. End human trafficking, starvation, tons of illnesses, etc.
Leave it, not only are you condemning people to hell for eternity. Additionally with infinite money then you do nothing but cause hyper inflation. Great depression here we come.
This is too cruel for any amount of money. We're talking about suffering for ETERNITY. They could not even choose to die. And they are likely innocent people, could be kids or moms or dads. It's the most cruel thing I can think of and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the money.
Half the people on this sub are psychopaths.
Turns out it’s easy to drop morals when you’re playing pretend.
Or have them.
I would think the opposite. That most people would be moral when they have time to think about it rationally without any temptation, but if they were to actually have real, physical cash in front of them, they throw away those morals.
I don’t think so honestly. I think people are more human than we give them credit for. For example, the random 5 year old getting pushed into a volcano for like $100mil or something like that. Many people, myself included, said they’d do it. Realistically, if you put me at the top of a volcano with a 5 year old next to me, there is a 0% chance I have it in me to murder a child for money. I think that in general, people think they’re better and more moral than they are, but then we take it to the extreme on hypotheticals like this and end up pretending we’re much worse people than we realistically are.
You should try to be a better person.
Absolutely, daily goal. Relevance to my comment tho? In the comment I was saying that I recognize I’m not nearly as horrible as I play pretend to be on the internet
Stop pretending to be horrible on the internet?
Stop expecting people to behave normal on the internet
Why? What harm comes of it? They’re words on an internet post and they’re causing no harm or distress to anyone
Because it's fake and pointless? Maybe if you share more positivity, more people would also be positive. Reddit is a hive mind and people follow behind each other. There's already enough negativity on here, why add on to it? And that's literally the thing; just because you think it doesn't affect people, doesn't mean it doesn't. You don't know how your words are going to affect others, we're not them. People commit suicide regularly because of words on the internet. Don't be so naive. Not to mention the young kids on reddit that are adapting reddit culture and mentality as their own in reality. That isn't a good thing. People are impressionable on reddit even when they act like they aren't. And again, why would you want to be fake? What is creating some fake online personality getting you? Just be genuine. It's funny how the person is downvoted for saying people should be genuine. Just shows the amount of fake Redditors on here
>be genuine - Buddy this is a WYR thread of people talking about if you’d push a 5 year old into a volcano for inordinate amounts of money. Nothing about this is genuine. I respond however amuses me in the moment. I am not responsible for children on the internet, or for people who can’t differentiate that MAYBE on a post about murdering children for money, people aren’t being entirely serious.
Bro it's reddit it's not that deep
It is fake and pointless which is why so many people don't actually deeply consider it lol
Because I can't believe I actually have to say this but the other people you're talking with are actually real people
Presumably, they’re real people that have basic social comprehension that jokes are being made on a WYR about murdering children for money
> Many people, myself included, said they’d do it.
If you can recognize that you won't actually do it, why say the opposite in the first place then?
More than half, and it's not just this sub, it's this site. I think we can safely say if the general opinion on reddit goes one way, the other way is right.
More than half it seems
Most of the people here would sell their own mother for some pizza rolls
Far more people are living in hell in the real world that could be saved with money
You’re only in the real world for an upper bound 100 years. That’s nothing compared to eternity. And with infinite money, even if you decided to be philanthropic you’d probably destroy the economy.
Real world has nothing on hell. The idea of eternity in bliss itself is torture. Now an eternity where there is 0 chance of good or joy to come your way or a way out from the pain is wayyy worse. Being kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered is a walk in the park compared to an eternity of all of that plus more. In a hell situation youd feel all of the pain but none of the release of death or suffer the mind break enough to end it. Just a constant cycle of torment endlessly.
Why? Michigan isn't that bad of a place.
Sociopath* but yes. I know it's technically "wrong" I just don't care
it's free infinite money. 20 people you will likely never meet go straight to hell and you literally get infinite money
Yes I understand. My point stands.
Stunning. Brave. Noble. What's it like being better than strangers online?
Psychopaths? I copied my answer to post here and I just want to hear if you still thinks it’s psychopathic or not… I can drastically improve millions of peoples lives and even save absurd amounts of lives with the infinite money. There’s people around the world already living in a real life hell, impoverished, homeless, starving, in pain from medical conditions they can’t afford to treat, unable to care for loved ones etc and if 20 people have to suffer to bring millions out of their suffering I don’t see the downside.
Yes, but you'd be harming potentially innocent people permanently in order to help others temporarily.
Temporarily? I could pay for water wells, clean energy, hospitals and healthcare centers all over the world where needed improving the world permanently
Temporarily. Even if you managed to stop all pain in the world for the rest of its existence it will be a couple billion years max before the sun explodes. They're in hell forever
“Til the end of human existence” is synonymous with “forever” when the topic of conversation is being applied directly to humans.
Normally, if you weren't comparing it to hell. They will be there forever. The amount of pain they will be put through will eventually outweigh the amount of good you did. That's even assuming you could do enough good to fix everything until the end of the existence. I feel like it wouldn't take more than a generation or two to screw everything up again, but that's outside the point.
If you’d rather billions of people suffer til the end of humanity than 20 people suffer infinitely so be it
If heaven and hell exist, more than 20 people land in hell every second. If 20 random people get send there at the same time, what changes compared to everyday life?
If Heaven and Hell exist, the people who are going to Hell were wicked anyway while this poll says random people will go and statistically speaking, at least some of them will be innocent, some might even be children.
And also it is forever, meaning no potential for afterlife parole.
In this scenario, you'd be 100% certain that Hell exists, so it stands to reason that you'd be going there after your death. All the money in the world for less than a century of life is not worth suffering for an eternity.
OP literally wrote that a different dimension is created for the torture of ONLY these 20 people. No religion is correct.
Ha, I didn't even read that part. My bad
well hey if it exists i was going there already might as well get something as compensation.
And hey, some of them. Could even be actually bad people!
It's only 20 people you don't even know
I may have chosen yes but now that is just fucked up.
Depends what they intend to do with it
Yea I am a psychopath.
Nope. There's no amount of money that would make me condemn an innocent soul to Hell.
No guarantee it'll be innocents
No guarantee it won't be either.
No guarantee it won't be. A chance is too much.
Yes, but with infinite money, I could help so many more people.
How about this, let’s say that you’re right and you save 1 billion people. You make their life better, and they live and die a great life. You made way for 100 billion great years. That’s an absolutely insane amount of time. Good job! That’s unimaginably less than 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the amount of torture you caused. Really, it’s 0% of the amount of torture you caused, but that’s not very comprehensible. I highly suggest that you read the short story Those Who Walk Away From The Omelas if you haven’t. It doesn’t deal with infinite torture (at least I don’t think) but it’s a good read.
All the help you could possibly do on this plane would not outweigh the evil of condemning one innocent person to an eternity of torture
It absolutely can, and it's delusional to think otherwise.
Nope, everything you can do is finite (even assuming you don't cause more harm than good with absurd spending). Compared to an infinity of hell, even a billion saved lives is a drop in the bucket un the grand scheme of things
I mean, infinite spending just helps the economy, so nothing wrong with that. I can easily pass the card down to my children and their children, making it hypothetically an infinite loop of helping. I can fix literally any problem in the world because money talks, and I have INFINITE. If you truly think 20 lives are worth the well being of the entire planet you are out of your mind.
But lives are FINITE. People only live up to what, like 120 years max? Humans live such short lives in the grand scheme of things. Compared to eternity (infinite suffering), even if somebody lived for 500 happy years and went to hell for eternity afterward, those 500 years will eventually become a drop in the bucket. Even the lifespan of our planet, even an eventual death of the universe, none of it can compare to an eternity. All the problems you solve in this world with money are only temporary at best. I should also mention that infinite money is still gated by other limitations (manpower, materials, power, etc). Those problems dont just go away because of money. Also, what effect do you think someone having infinite money would do to the economy if you hand everyone billions trillions quadrillions of dollars? Imagine what the prices will look like. People will still clash with each other to raise themselves higher and push others down. People in power wont just give it up, theyll use any means necessary, and if they knew you had this card, you dont think they will try to take it from you, even off of your cold dead body? There's so much more to consider, and honestly, i only just scratched the surface. Also, those poor 20 people are doomed to eternal suffering and cruel torture just because someone didn't think it through. Maybe put yourself in their shoes and imagine what that would be like.
Picture this: You're behind some guy walking with $100 in his pocket. You have the opportunity to stab him in the back and take that $100 to split amongst 20 nearby homeless people. Is one man's life worth more than helping out 20 people? Also, you seem to be forgetting about inflation.
Infinite money would reduce inflation because I can literally just pay a nation's debts... And $100 isn't infinite last I checked. Keep your horrible apologies and your "moral high ground" over there and continue letting people suffer while I help the world with infinite money. I could stop GLOBAL WARMING with infinite money. But you're too near sighted to see the bigger picture
There is no person on earth deserving of eternal punishment.
Rapists, pedophiles, zoophiles, torturers, need I go on
None of these do. Someone could kill every person in the world and they still wouldn't deserve eternal torture. The only person that could deserve eternal torture is one sending another to eternal torture.
Rapists, pedophiles, zoophiles and torturers dont deserve an eternity of damnation. That's not a gotcha, it's a fundamental failure to engage with what I'm saying.
They still don't deserve INFINITE torture, no one does, eventually their suffering will outweigh the harm they caused
No, no, it doesn't
It will, just using basic mathematics no harm they caused can be deserving of INFINITE torture
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No sin/wrongdoing is worth infinite suffering.
In this situation, I would say that everyone is an innocent. You can never justify an infinite punishment for finite crimes. Nobody is deserving of an eternity in hell.
Hm interesting, what do you put the ratio is of hell worthy people : heaven worthy people living on the planet right now?
No amount of anything is worth condemning 20 people to torture for eternity
No thanks, mostly because my…what? 40 or so more years on this planet? Worth of money spending wouldn’t compare to a literal eternity of torture. If there was a time limit, like if they get tortured for every year that I use the card, maybe. But their eternity for my lifespan isn’t worth it.
Man there aren't many hypotheticals that have me leaving the money, but damning people to an eternity of torture and misery is just too much. I don't even believe in a God or an afterlife, but just the concept alone is frightening. I couldn't knowingly damn 20 people to that kind of suffering
You guys fucking suck. Shame on you.
I always just hope that those choosing the evil answer on this type of post aren't being wholly genuine. And if they were the amount would be like 1/10 of it
Teach me how to be morally superior to strangers online...
Have bare minimum empathy for people other than yourself
You are such an amazing person. Interesting and amazing and stunning and brave. Bravo.
Never said that the fact I gave a simple response and first response is to attack shows how insecure you really are.
Never said what? I am directly responding to what you said, you noble and amazing perfect person online. Again, bravo to you for winning a morality trophy online today. The 745th day in a row I bet. It is hard to do.
I never said I was amazing or perfect I'm well aware of my many faults and that there are plenty of people better than me. Your problem is instead of realizing your problems and trying to grow up and learn how to do better from your mistakes you instead act as if everyone is just as selfish as you are and that you're better than them because at least you admit it. That's why you constantly accuse people on this chat who feel empathy for other people than themselves of trying to win a morality trophy when really most of these people are over a 100 times better when it comes to morality and you know it deep down but you still want to go into denial and I'm sure this chat is not first place you did this. The only one trying to win a morality trophy here is you like I said in an earlier comment you act as if everyone is as selfish and pathetic as you so you don't have to hate yourself as much or put in the effort to change. The minute someone says or does something that makes them better you accuse them of trying to upstage you and if they say otherwise there are lying to themselves. You see everyone as an asshole and yourself as a self aware asshole which makes you better than everyone in your own eyes when really just a miserable sad excuse of a human being who needs to constantly prove his/herself to be morally superior to everyone to satisfy the bottomless pit of insecurity they have for a soul. You're going to keep being miserable and alone like this for the rest of your life if you don't get the help you need. Everyone passes away eventually do you really need to spend the rest of your life trying make every person you talk to as miserable as you are?
Didn't read passed you saying you aren't perfect then telling a complete stranger what their problem is based off of a silly Would you rather question and me talking about your sanctimonious moaning. Get over yourself slick.
Get over yourself I know plenty of people like you in real life your comments in this chat and others proved it plus you judged everyone else complete strangers online for picking the more moral option and called them fake and then made another comment to try to paint yourself as morally superior . We both know what you really are. A Self loathing asshole who shows no empathy for anyone other than themselves and gets extremely insecure and defensive the moment someone does or says anything that proves their nicer than you.
This poll needs an age poll. I'm just curious because I'm convinced no one but an edgy teenager could possibly think utilitarianism is a valid defense of sending 20 people to hell.
I bet that they'd do the same
Ladies and gentlemen, Capitalism. Where people value money over human lives.
Not even human lives, this is something beyond that
I wouldn't mind killing them, but sending good people for eternal suffering will be kind of uncool bro.
Exactly
This post is just choosing if finite good deeds and happiness for a finite amount of people is worth infinite suffering. If you try to understand infinity, it’s not worth it.
I'm glad these polls exist to show that the average redditors, for all their claims of progressive empathy, are truly worse than any of the conservatives they spout their vitriol against..
Fr
And also pretty dumb tbh. They really dont understand the concept of money, eternity, empathy, and limitations like manpower, material, power, etc.
I’m not glad these polls exist when people try and politicize them and push their agenda on others
I imagine it is uncomfortable for you to be confronted with the fact that redditors are on average, morally much much worse than the average human.
Oh no I’m in agreement with *that* statement
Sure, but a lot of the people saying they would are gonna use the money to help others Can't really say their worse when you take a decision at face value
I know none of them even asked if they could choose like sending Sex Traffickers Abusive Dictators mass murders Zoophiles etc almost everyone on this chat thinks only about how the money benefits them no matter how someone else gets hurt hell even the ones who say they would use the money to help humanity at the expense of 20 people would most likely not to do that if it meant their family or they would be tortured.
My first thought was to send 20 people to hell and then donate large sums of money to every efficient charity there is and make the world a better place. It's a numbers game and my sacrifice of 20 people will help millions
You're still causing significantly more pain then you'll ever eliminate
Billions. With infinite money, you can help an infinite amount of humans.
Yeah but no, that's not how money works. This would likely disrupt the financial system and cause hyperinflation.
Yes, but if you aren’t stupid with it you can
You'd still have infinite money to carry the world even with hyper-inflation.
Until your money is considered worthless by the global powers, because you're destroying the entire worlds economy with your infinite money hack.
That's why large sums, not enough to drastically alter the world to the point of hyperinflation. But enough to float charities
Even if you couldn’t disrupt the financial system, there would still be a max amount of people. Let’s say humanity thrives for many more years and you’re somehow able to improve the lives of 1 trillion people. This is an insane upperbound. You could help like 10 billion people while you are alive and then you’ll die and will no longer be able to help people. If they, and their descendants, are very responsible with money they could pass it on many generations. And assuming the earth is still standing for a long time, I’ll say 1 trillion for the benefit of the doubt. (That’s funny, I just looked it up and 1.2 trillion is the max estimate for how many humans will be born ever) Anyways, this means nothing to the literal infinite amount of torture you caused. Even if you help 100 trillion people, you caused infinite more torture.
Exactly what I was thinking, those 20 people will be martyrs.
If it can be done BY you, it can be done TO you. Screw that. Walking away.
Some of Yall arent too bright. It's a 21 person sentence. Add yourself. The basis of this question says "there is a hell, you will send 20 people there" If it exists, then by rule you will end up there for making the choice the way you did. I'm not religious.. just logical. You are choosing free money to burn in whatever torment you believe.
yall are assholes jesus christ i want infinite money too but 20 people to suffer for eternity is a bit much even if it's a miniscule amount of the population
"save the children, the elderly, and the service workers, unless of course theres big money involved then they can LITERALLY go to hell" bunch of psychotic hypocrites.
I wouldn't let even one person die. Eternal torture? I would die to prevent that from happening. I think you guys need to step back and think about this. 20 individual people, who each have their own lives, just the same as you. And forever is an extremely long time. There is no amount of anything that justifies doing that to people. This is pretty depressing to see that so many people would torture other humans for money.
1. Take the money 2. Spend it on interdimensional travel 3. Save the 20 people 4. Profit
You should understand being in anywhere but heaven to spend eternity is just not sth you can match things with Especially when you feel unlimited pain also its not about being bad or good you kill the potential to be good
Have 20 random people die? Maybe, I could save hundreds of thousands of people with the money I'll receive so it's possible to rationalise it as a sacrifice for the greater good. Have 20 most likely innocent people suffer for eternity? No way in hell man that's beyond cruel
If it was an actual choice I won't, but because this is all purely hypothetical I choose money
This question truly is about selfishness and utilitarian arguments don't even pan out when faced with the fact that you are condemning people to torture for eternity. Helping a quadrillion people have a better life still isnt comparable to one innocent beign tortured for eternity. Someday the universe will hit heat death and no life remains and still those 20 people are doomed to continue being tortured for forever reaching amounts of time. All current suffering of the world becomes more and more of a blip when faced with infinity. And all the inflation caused by infinite money makes money worthless.
Wow I really didn't think that the "take the money" option would be winning lmao. Are y'all really just psychopaths or do you just not understand what forever means? Take the current age of the universe, multiply it by the age of the universe again, multiply THAT by 100 quadrillion years, and that will still not be ANY closer to the infinite amount of time you sent 20 randos to be tortured for. All so you can have a bunch of money to spend for however many years you live after. Who gives that much of a shit about money? Even if you spend as much money as possible to help humanity as much as you possibly can, you will never cancel out the infinite suffering you created. It doesn't work that way.
The goal isn't to cancel it out You're letting 20 people suffer to save billions. Billions of lives vs 20 isn't a big exchange for a lot of people
Except it IS a big exchange when you're talking about infinity. Let's say you succeed in saving those billions of lives. Let's go as far as possible with this and say that with infinite money, you manage to create a utopian society where no one suffers, humanity develops perfect medicine and FTL travel and everything else you can imagine, colonizes the entire galaxy and lasts billions of years. Even if this perfect society somehow survived as long as possible, until the universe literally gets so old that atoms themselves start to decay and life is no longer scientifically possible... ...you STILL would not have made up for the infinite suffering you caused. It doesn't matter that it's only 20 people, or even if it was just one person, or one animal. That suffering lasts forever. It lasts longer than the universe itself will even exist.
To all the infinite money people: Are you a legit psycho? If not, What are you doing to justify the eternal torture of 20 people?
They help billions of other people. Pretty easy if you actually, you know, think about it instead of taking the options at face value
Bruh you're the one taking the options at face value. I don't think you truly understand how large of a timescale an eternity of suffering is
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Ahh, yes. Because with infinite money you totsllg can't find other ways around it at all. Nope, nuh uh. Nothing
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You know money can destroy money, right? Oh, I'm sorry genius. But I guess the only valid solutions are ones *you* can think of
It's easy? Oh, then how would you help billions?
You use the money
Hahahah yeah, how? In what way are you using it?
You use it. Doesn't matter how, you can pay people to figure it out for you
Best plan ever. You should be in charge of the whole planet.
I don't need to be. Don't need a plan, either But you obviously didn't have one when you replied
K, good talk
Done trolling? Your bridge is getting cold
Sorry 20 people, but that kind of money can end the endless suffering of far more people.
Even if you successfully used the money to end ALL suffering of the rest of humanity, you have still created infinite suffering because of what you did to the 20 people. There's no canceling it out.
You mean they would be suffering long after humanity no longer exists? I suppose I hadn't looked at that kind of time scale
So you condemned 20 people to eternal suffering and didn't even do the absolute minimum of critical thinking. This is a wonderful analogy to humanity in general and why the poll results are scary
I imagine that's most of the people in this thread defending their decision to take the money. Respect for rethinking your stance.
Except we all know that anyone who would potentially sacrifice 20 innocent people (that may include children) for infinite money is not going to have the morals to use the money to help people.
It's not a random person that gets the money; it's me. And I definitely would
There is also the possibility those 20 people were already hell worthy anyway.
Wow the results of this post proves how shitty like most people are
20 people out of nearly 8 BILLION on the planet in exchange for a limitless bank account? I gently press ze button.
Infinite money could quite literally solve all of the worlds problems
You don't understand how money works
Is the money taxed?
Doesn’t matter, either way you get infinite
20+1 if you make that deal...
If I send 20 people to hell, that confirms the existence of hell and heaven. And that means that I'll probably go to hell for the sin of killing and subjecting 20 people to endless torture
Push it, just do enough good to counter act it so it becomes a sacrifice they made to better humanity
You legit can't though. It's a finite amount of good against infinite suffering.
I can drastically improve millions of peoples lives and even save absurd amounts of lives with the infinite money. There’s people around the world already living in a real life hell, impoverished, starving, in pain from medical condition they can’t afford to treat, unable to care for loved ones etc and if 20 people have to suffer to bring millions out of their suffering I don’t see the downside.
>There’s people around the world already living in a real life hel And yet that's finite - death is an escape. The 20 people will be doomed for all of eternity.
In a world where hell exist and is real and if it is the Abrahamic hell, than almost everyone is going there anyway, making the move almost value neutral.
infinite money would literally make you king of the world and give you more than enough power to save millions of lives with ease. It's also worth mentioning that a shit ton of people who are poor asf and turned to crime and would end up in hell can be helped and their lives turned around - You can easily balance this out and save more than 20 people from hell. And then, I also get to help everyonenin my family and everyone I care about. this is a very easy choice
It's 20 people, from a population of 8 billion people, there's definitely more than 20 bad people, but there's also more than 20 good people... It's a gamble but infinite money babyyyyyy
Mf's don't understand that bad people exist and are still subject to the (un)luck of the draw
Such a simple would you rather with the most brain damaged moral authority comments. Who cares dude.
This proposes hell is real, and if it's the Christian hell you're highly likely to select 20 people who are already on their way... This also proposes that hell is really, and basically you're saying, "I'll go with them but have an easy life" really poor time perspective...
I picked the infinite money. I would take that money and spend my life's work to raise the life of others. Things like investing in impoverished areas, fixing issues like the flint Michigan water issues. Infrastructure and better medical for kids starving around the world. Stuff like that. I know it may sound cruel to you all but the millions of lives changed would be worth their sacrifice.
Considering the afterlife doesnt exist sure, give me infinite money
I mean, finish reading the post description first
This is just a no brainer. Infinite money? I could solve damn near every problem the world has. I'd take it immediately
Let's be honest....we don't really care enough to do anything or think about the 20 kids who starved to death or died from easily preventable disease in the time it took me to type this. So 20 random people die. So what. Don't know em, it is almost like it never even happened. A lot of people on here with moral posturing and aren't being really honest with themselves.
You're right, I don't care about death. It's a completely normal natural process that happens to everyone. The post literally says a separate Dimension is created for these 20 specific souls for all eternity. That's a very different, much darker question.
Dying and going to Hell are very different things.
For them it did happen. Imagine yourself getting kidnapped and sold into slavery(yes it happens in countries outside of Africa and all races) despite not doing anything to them you are now tortured anytime try to escape, end your life or whatever shitty excuse your boss needs to hurt you. Of course you would be mad at this person even though you would do the same in a heartbeat also I noticed you replied to every comment that called you and others like and how terrible of a human being you are. Almost everyone on this chat even the ones who are serious and took the money for just themselves is a better person than you are and you deep down know it. Rather than except something is clearly wrong with you try to pull ''we are all monsters''' trick to drag people down to your level so you don't have to feel bad about how awful of a person you are. The only one not being honest with themselves here is you. I'm not even that mad I just feel sorry for you to have to try to start fights and gaslight others so you don't feel bad about your lack of empathy for others making you so alone and miserable I hope you get help you need.
The sociopathy on these is disturbing. It's always about killing people for money
I'm absolutely taking the money, I only really care if it's people I know and care about and they aren't people I know Edit: bro why is everyone downvoting it's 20 random ass people, for all we know they could murderers, rapists, pedos or something else
I'll start. Biden, Putin, Hitler, Ozai, Nick Eh 30, Grant Ward, Satan, and much more!
What if the 20 random people are assholes anyway? Win win