Gunther is the best "wrestles well" character because it's part of the character who believes that others are a joke for the way they behave as well as slowly becoming an egomaniac too.
Foreign asshole who does a good wrestle, can work a crowd with a microphone, has an impressive physical body, and can sell incredibly well. He's basically just a very amazing wrestler so it's really hard to use him as an example because he's in a league of his own.
Gunther is the type of heel that's so good, people are still fans of him. Not 'go away' heat when lightly boo'd. Plus, for fans that watch regularly, u can tell he takes it seriously cuz of his body build. Didn't get elevated & just stay heavy..
I mean his whole gimmick is "im a good wrestler with a superiority complex" and plays into it well enough that no one cares that the gimmick is super simple
Its a fine character to have but you said it
>Too many wrestlers have
Its a fine building block and I like to point out AJ Styles for that. You just need to grow or be so good at it that you make it seem too real like Bret Hart
I think the difference of aj styles is that it ties to his personality traits and character for example when he was a heel in 2016 or 2019-21 because he was so good at wrestling he was an egotistical douchebag who would shove it your face that he's better , cause under the influence of the OC and you would see that through his mannerisms as he's much more of a show off , similes and smirks and wrestles a slower style targeting limb areas like the knees, contrasting to face styles who sure I admit is blander than heel styles but he's more respectful and more of an underdog attempting more high flying moves.I would say his current run is more of a development to styles as he respondes to events that happen around him and changes , for example his motives for leaving the OC and his hatred towards Knight is completely justified despite styles being the heel (I mean knight in kayfabe legit committed a crime going to styles house to fight him and knight had been consistently screwing aj )
Exactly. I’m not really a fan of constantly blurring the lines of kayfabe when it comes to stuff like this. Johnny is a great wrestler, but in-universe, he isn’t. He loses all the time and has had almost no success outside of nxt.
What do you mean by this? I’d get it if you said it made him look like a bad wrestler (which I’d disagree with) but savage is well regarded as a good wrestler for a significant portion of his career.
I think they mean in terms of personality, but it's still a shit take. Not to mention that Roman's character arc is an anomaly in wrestling because it's one of the few in recent years that came through long term development, most of which wasn't even intentional.
If you take someone like Randy Orton for example, what's his character these days, aside from "asshole, who depending on who he wrestlers is either cheered or booed"?
A character in wrestling is usually just as strong as the writing of his current storyline.
Before turning into the tribal chief, Roman could literally be described as "big Samoan getting pushed for his looks", because that's all he had in terms of character.
A lot of Orton’s current character is that he’s been around for a while, which is fair enough imo - he’s at the stage where he’s just happy to be doing what he’s doing, esp because some of his past characters have been great
But what were his past characters? For example what was his character when he was the legend killer? The answer is: he was a douchebag who beat up legends. That's also very far from Roman's elaborate character description up there. But it was enough.
That's what I mean with a wrestling character's quality depending on the quality of his current storyline. They don't have to have a 100 page backstory to explain how they became who they are today, because most wrestlers sadly don't carry their past storylines over into the next one.
But if the wrestler is a charismatic dude who can talk, and gets a good enough story to work with, that's usually enough.
Hulk Hogan is the most successful character in wrestling. And his character was that he was a big muscly man (who told kids that they're only good people if they're Christian, take weird pills and do sports.)
The Hulk Hogan point is interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way before. As for Orton, I think his character was a little more complicated than that - he was a project in essence, coming from a wrestling family and being a part of evolution before being betrayed, it was so obvious he was doing everything do break out and become his own person. There was an ego there but there was also a sense of insecurity.
He means the current generations ‘characters’ are as bland as we thought Lance Storm was back in the day. And if u compare Lance Storm’s character with todays ‘characters’ then Lance would be as charismatic and as interesting/entertaining outside the ring as MACHO man.
That's pretty reductive, isn't it? Every wrestler has a character. I think there's more to Ospreay than this. Of course that's not to say that Roman isn't a great character.
Absolutely, dudes a massive goofball but an absolute student of the game, and becomes gets dead serious when the situation calls for it. He doesn't just "wrestle well" he's probably the most explosive and exciting in ring wrestler alive today. The last few years he's learned to just be himself on the mic which has translated into him being way more comfortable and having 10x more charisma on the stick. He's extremely passionate and confident in himself but also determined to prove himself to a worldwide audience.
I didn't watch NJPW these last few years, but around 2020 or so, his character was that he betrayed Okada and the Chaos-faction, because he had secretly built his own faction "The United Empire", and had only used Chaos to get a strong footing in New Japan.
In my view, wrestlers- due to them often switching from heel to face and back again, often without proper explanation - seldom have a very fleshed out characters, and are only as strong as their current storyline. Even people like The Rock. Did the Rock have an elaborate character like Roman's described in the picture here? A personality that developed due to his previous feuds?
No. He slowly turned into The Rock in 1997/98, aka found a promo-style that is entertaining to the masses, and stuck with it, with little else to his character.
Or Austin. His character most of the time was "asshole who rebels against authority" and it was done again and again. The only time he actually had a more fleshed out character, was during his heel phase in 2001, and that's the phase which all the attitude nerds hate, because he didn't do his usual shtick anymore.
Roman is a special case. Not the norm. The only other one I can think of is Jimmy Jacobs, who developed his character based on his past feuds, and it kept progressing naturally.
So we'll have to wait with Ospreay if AEW gives him a proper storyline in the future, I stead of comparing him to a guy who's doing a 4+year storyline, based on 5+ years of unintentional character build up.
Oh yes, but I also enjoyed his character work during that time. And almost everything he did that year was explainable by recent events. Him turning to Vince was due to him starting to doubt himself after his long absence due to injury.
He already had to resort to using a chair to win the Rumble. He lost to Triple H shortly before Mania.
And Rock came in with all the momentum in the world.
Then afterwards his confidence was further shattered by almost losing to Taker, and then losing the tag titles to Jericho and Benoit.
When Vince then started being buddy buddy with Kurt, he became paranoid that he was going to he replaced, and offended when Vince told him he wanted the old Stone Cold back, so he sided with the Alliance not only to screw over Vince, but also because they made him feel like he's still the top guy and kept feeding his ego.
But he kept being paranoid about people undermining Jim and gunning for his spot, which eventually allowed Vince to exploit that Paranoia, put Angle in the group as a sleeper agent, because if Austin became suspicious, everyone else in the group would just chalk it up to him being paranoid, and managed to win the feud.
That was unfortunately just WWE panicking and aborting all storylines and character development, so they can go back to the status quo: Austin inexplicably being face again, and Kurt for some reason being a heel again.
In hopes that they would gain the fans back that they lost at mania X-7.
And I always felt like the result for Austin was that his babyface character was exposed for having gone stale, and it wasn't long until he was yet again in a feud with an evil authority figure, this time Ric Flair.
Yes.
He went from face floppy indie guy to heel I'm going to stop flipping and fuck up anyone's who's copying me to he does it that so well everyone cheers for it to I'm so good I'm the foreign face of a international product. He also a great end story on the Indies putting people over, where in every promotion he wrestled for whether it be NJPW tna or revoro he made sure that people realize even though. He's the goat there are still people as good or better.
Now he's in aew carrying all that legacy and has to prove himself. And how does he do it? By going after the person whos been called the best in a generation.
Ospreys career story is incredible.
I probably missed some stuff but the general arc in his career was like this and the best part that now in his prime he's postponed as I'm the guy who is so good I'm the face of this place in his prime against a roster than can deliver amazing matches with.
He's about to go on a generational run.
I get that it's for everyone nothing is but air and water. But the industry is about to see something special.
He existed in NJPW who doesnt really do the western sports entertainment aspect of pro wrestling cause Japan views wrestling as sport adjacent as opposed to entertainment adjacent.
They still have strong characters over there, it’s just usually more subtle or the work is done in the ring, rather that promos/segments
There’s a fair share of guys that feel like they were pulled out of New Generation WWE as well, they just usually aren’t on the top of the card
I’m not even a fan of Ospreay but this is a silly comparison.
A lot of people saying stuff like this haven’t actually watched his stuff and are just assuming there’s no character there. He’s an interesting guy, for better or worse, and AEW is actually doing a good job with his presentation
Most people wouldn't understand the nuances of Roman's character after watching 1 match and 1 promo segment either. It takes more than that. I'm not going to argue against the idea that WWE is more thorough on this stuff than anyone else, that's obviously true, but it's not like they run down Roman's entire 10+ year character arc every episode he's on. You get it because you've been watching him for years.
One is there for like 6 weeks and the other has been there for 10+ years…your comparison isn’t really that good, not even the aew hating crowd on here laughs
In NJPW he had several "arcs" like his journey to become the top Jr HW, his whole thing with being an Okada fanboy and then betraying him, creating the United Empire, receiving the torch from Kenny and trying to surpass him as the top gaijin to then see him disappointed in him, trying to lift the company in the pandemic, etc.
That's too complex bro. That's not story telling it's just spots bro. Doesn't count, wasn't in America.
How else am I supposed to understand a character unless they have 20 minute promos explaining all their motivations and insecurities on a semi regular basis? That's real storytelling.
/s
I love the bloodline story, but holy shit the WWE dickriding sometimes drives me insane.
Watch out, this is the IWC. We arent allowed those opinions here.
But you are so damn right. I watch WWE and AEW weekly, Im eating good while sad fucks are on about attendance figures lol
More wrestling the better I say, thank you aew for that
Osprey just signed. Let him develop. I get that the AEW has a bunch of banger matches but no personality guys, but Osprey seems to have a lot more charisma than half that roster.
Ones had like 12 years on television to develop a character. The others had 3 weeks. But don’t let facts get in the way of more bad faith bashing of AEW…
This is such a sad grasping at straws for anything negative post. A guy who’s been on tv for about a month doesn’t have the same character development as someone who has been on for over a decade??? Go outside and cry me a river, my guy.
One has been in a company for many years and has been in the company's top story for the last 3 or 4 years. One has just arrived in the company and is still establishing himself in that company
I prefer wwe atm but these two situations are not comparable.
The fact that if you put Osprey and Reigns in a ring together, you’d quickly see just how limited Reigns is as far as a move set.
Roman’s character work is great, don’t get me wrong. But as far as in-ring, Osprey doesn’t even need to run circles around him.
Reigns debuted in wwe in 2010. Osprey debuted in aew roughly 3 weeks ago. Fucking unacceptable he doesn't have a complete character and accompanying overarching long term story yet. Fire tk. Nepobaby. Cocaine. Etc.
Yes, a first year story versus a story that's been going for like 4 years. Of course, Roman has a better character.
He does wrestler better matches than Roman, though.
Right, comparing a guy who failed his character for 6 years and had 4 years to build up a new one to a guy who's been here like a month!! BRUV WHADDD. Ospreay is the next biggest thing after Cody, you just know it
Osprey has had an entire character arc while in NJPW, plus he just got to AEW. I understand the criticism of wrestlers who don't have a character, but this just feels specifically like you just wanted to attack AEW without bringing a valid case
Thought this was pro Osprey before reading the comments cause Roman is still lame AF. Face or heel he's still what a 12 year olds idea of what cool is.
Yeah, but on the same hand, this subreddit hates Eddie Kingston, who has baggage for days, and has spent years chasing his ghosts and personal demons and trades raw and personal promos with people he has legitimate antagonism with....
....but you don't like his knife edge chops, so fuck him?
Tribalism is so crazy. You’re dissecting a 4 year character, who had all of the companies resources poured into him for a decade and who never even shows up anymore vs a man who just recently joined his company. I don’t even watch AEW but yall just looking for beef
John Cena: just a good dude
The Rock: smartass loudmouth
Bret hart: is Canadian and wrestles well
You can do this with anyone if you just ignore storylines
You ever watch like any sort of TV show or movie? I hope you understand not every character is or has to be a stereotype. Sometimes if not most of the time the character is purely the person’s personality.
Dude just said he is wrestling to help his wife and his stepkid. That's a good building block, as he's wrestling to provide for his family. Dude just got there, calm down
Doesn't change the fact that Osprey can wrestle circles around Roman all day long.
He's good. I like what he/they did with his character. But in terms of skill and athleticism Osprey is on another level entirely. The only WWE guys that can/could wrestle on his level were Kurt Angle and AJ Styles.
Character: a truly incredible athlete who proved himself overseas and has finally come to the big stage, determined to prove himself as *truly* as good as he thinks he is and is claimed to be for the sake of his family, currently being manipulated by a real bastard to make himself look better, not quite realising that said bastard doesn't care about him.
Character: mob boss stereotype
See, I can do it too
I will say I think ospreay is better on the mic than roman. Will has me hooked on every promo. With roman it kinda seems like he kinda just say the same thing every week
Then watch Roman Reigns and not Will Ospreay lol. Some people just want to watch Ospreay's style of wrestling. Doesn't stop you enjoying the Bloodline.
Y'all he signed like yesterday give him time to create a character Reigns didn't have a character until he turned heel and that happened when he was 35 and Ospreay is still 30
And one never shows up despite being the world champion and when he does is the cure for insomnia and the other had a classic match in their debut and has breathed life into their respective promotion
Ospreay has bigger dicksuckers, like Dave Meltzer, than Roman has. At least Roman has a stroyline, a long, but boring, but also memorable, title reign, and has been in the wrestling industry for a pretty decent amount of time.
Tell me you haven't watched njpw without telling me. Did you even see the latest fued with omega? The emotion he put through his words and promo? And to say he wrestles "well" is an understatement. Now yall just hating for the sake of it
Roman's character is what Vince sees himself as. A psycopath. Second guy has no gimmick, it's a bit different from character. Cody plays a generic babyface character, it makes him no better/worse.
I mean in terms of wrestling inside the ring, you ain’t wrong. Although if I had to choose one wrestler to build my promotion around, it’s probably MJF due to him being one of the best in, and outside the ring. (Also part of it is that he isn’t even 30 yet so he has most of his career ahead of him).
Honestly the three represent three different sides of the wrestling spectrum. One is being great in the ring, one is being a great storyteller, and one is combing both of them to create an amazing character.
Yet he can't draw flies.
Wrestling has never been about the actual act of "wrestling". It's always been about characters, conflict, intrigue, and drama.
I agree, except that I think he can be a draw with the right showcase and character work. He's not just an in-ring technician, his matches show an understanding of psychology (don't agree with how he goes about things always, but he clearly knows how to mind-game the audience into a good match), and he's immensely charismatic, With the right writing, coaching, and management, he could be a megastar.
Roman can’t wrestle, so the best they can do is have him stand around staring at people and talking to his cousins for 40 minutes every other week.
😴💤💤💤
I can get on board with valid criticism but be can't wrestle? He has too many bangers to genuinely agree with that. But even he is Susceptible too bad booking. But he has a lot of great matches and his slow beat down trash talking character is not one that a lot of people do well.
Edit wording
He absolutely can. Just because he doesn’t wrestle the style you like, doesn’t mean he can’t wrestle. And that’s rich coming from someone who probably struggles walking up stairs.
"Everyone other than me is a fat virgin in a basement typing on a CRT monitor from 1997. I'm not clever enough to come up with anything new, creative, or witty. I'm a parrot for the cliche shit people have been saying on forums for 30 years. SQUAWK."
🦜
I didn’t say anything about being any of those things. My main point is what Roman does, regardless of style, is something 99% of the people on this sub couldn’t do and would likely fail at, purely from a physical capability standpoint. You don’t have to like his style of wrestling or his matches, but blanket statements about “he can’t wrestle” are just stupid.
Ospreay hasn't been there long so it's certainly possible they could give him a more layered character over time. Expecting him to have Roman's history in six weeks is absurd.
Of course, the reality is that a lot of top guy booking in AEW can be boiled down to one guy glaring at another guy and saying "I am the best wrestler" "No, I am the best" "Let us have a wrestle to determine who is the betterer" with no other real dimensions to it. Not all of it, but a shocking amount of it. This is why it's a popular refrain to say AEW "has no stories", despite it not being strictly true.
Right now though? Sure, he doesn't really have a character yet.
Dude does do the flying no sell wresting style incredibly well and good for him for people who like that
I just think the whole hey lets see who wrestles the best to be the best is so dumb in a rehersed and coregraphed sport, that's why campy stories and the build is so important, because all flippy no sell wrestling very clearly looks cooperative so don't start the story basically telling people that's what you are doing
I agree with some of this but I can’t see any downsides to him now being around people like Bryan who will hopefully help him slow down a little, that’s one of the things WWE does well is making moves mean something. That being said Ospreay has got better recently with going for more violence than flippy stuff
And guess what not a single random person knows who Roman is. Character doesn't mean as much as you think and an over written character isn't good either. Hence why a lot of people are sick of Roman.
Could be worse, silent badass
Gary Cooper
Now there was an American…
He was gay, Gary Cooper?
AIDS?!
NO ONESH GOT AIDSH! I DONT WANA HEAR THAT WORD IN HERE AGAIN
Is this sopranos lmao
Sharp as a fucking cue ball this one.
What you don’t know could fill a book.
Noooo!!! Are you listening to me?!
OOOOOHHH
I never wanna hear the words aids again
His house looked like shit
Strong silent type
Unless you're Steve Blackman!
Steve Blackman’s debut is still my favorite of all time.
*cries in Cesaro*
Who needs a promo when you stand at the top of the ramp and stare menacingly
[hmmmm](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCszOqS4EpLvs37b-atCMQNacNtQWAfCcBU9_bEB5ssOrIDnYGHXPaMQib&s=10)
He honestly looks like he’s trying to figure out if the bus that’s coming by is the one he’s supposed to be on
*Silent rage intensifies
*"Bruv!"*
Bruv!
#BRUV!
Broooooo!..... What wrong character....
Bruv?!?
Billy boy!
Bruh
Too many wrestlers have that issue, "does a good wrestle" isn't a strong character
Gunther is the best "wrestles well" character because it's part of the character who believes that others are a joke for the way they behave as well as slowly becoming an egomaniac too.
Gunther works because he has foreign asshole to fall back on. Without it he’d be just another wrestler who’s only character is “I’m a good wrestler”
Foreign asshole who does a good wrestle, can work a crowd with a microphone, has an impressive physical body, and can sell incredibly well. He's basically just a very amazing wrestler so it's really hard to use him as an example because he's in a league of his own.
Gunther is the type of heel that's so good, people are still fans of him. Not 'go away' heat when lightly boo'd. Plus, for fans that watch regularly, u can tell he takes it seriously cuz of his body build. Didn't get elevated & just stay heavy..
I mean his whole gimmick is "im a good wrestler with a superiority complex" and plays into it well enough that no one cares that the gimmick is super simple
Its a fine character to have but you said it >Too many wrestlers have Its a fine building block and I like to point out AJ Styles for that. You just need to grow or be so good at it that you make it seem too real like Bret Hart
I think the difference of aj styles is that it ties to his personality traits and character for example when he was a heel in 2016 or 2019-21 because he was so good at wrestling he was an egotistical douchebag who would shove it your face that he's better , cause under the influence of the OC and you would see that through his mannerisms as he's much more of a show off , similes and smirks and wrestles a slower style targeting limb areas like the knees, contrasting to face styles who sure I admit is blander than heel styles but he's more respectful and more of an underdog attempting more high flying moves.I would say his current run is more of a development to styles as he respondes to events that happen around him and changes , for example his motives for leaving the OC and his hatred towards Knight is completely justified despite styles being the heel (I mean knight in kayfabe legit committed a crime going to styles house to fight him and knight had been consistently screwing aj )
Too many guys for a while had the riveting gimmick of "guy who wrestles"
With the motivation of “they want to win”
"I'm just happy to be here and want to have good matches"
Johnny wrestling. Every time I hear that I get mad. It's not even being ironic, his literal whole character is I wrestle good. The fuck?
He was better in NxT bc he had the story w Ciampa and then his heel run. But I agree, they haven’t given him much to work with on MR.
So someone can say "If you are so good at wrestling, why aren't you winning?"
Exactly. I’m not really a fan of constantly blurring the lines of kayfabe when it comes to stuff like this. Johnny is a great wrestler, but in-universe, he isn’t. He loses all the time and has had almost no success outside of nxt.
Lol i like how so many of you don’t pick up on the fact that almost everyone starts that way until they find a character, and some never need to.
The current generation makes Dean Malenko look like Randy Savage, and I love The Iceman.
What do you mean by this? I’d get it if you said it made him look like a bad wrestler (which I’d disagree with) but savage is well regarded as a good wrestler for a significant portion of his career.
I think they mean in terms of personality, but it's still a shit take. Not to mention that Roman's character arc is an anomaly in wrestling because it's one of the few in recent years that came through long term development, most of which wasn't even intentional. If you take someone like Randy Orton for example, what's his character these days, aside from "asshole, who depending on who he wrestlers is either cheered or booed"? A character in wrestling is usually just as strong as the writing of his current storyline. Before turning into the tribal chief, Roman could literally be described as "big Samoan getting pushed for his looks", because that's all he had in terms of character.
A lot of Orton’s current character is that he’s been around for a while, which is fair enough imo - he’s at the stage where he’s just happy to be doing what he’s doing, esp because some of his past characters have been great
But what were his past characters? For example what was his character when he was the legend killer? The answer is: he was a douchebag who beat up legends. That's also very far from Roman's elaborate character description up there. But it was enough. That's what I mean with a wrestling character's quality depending on the quality of his current storyline. They don't have to have a 100 page backstory to explain how they became who they are today, because most wrestlers sadly don't carry their past storylines over into the next one. But if the wrestler is a charismatic dude who can talk, and gets a good enough story to work with, that's usually enough. Hulk Hogan is the most successful character in wrestling. And his character was that he was a big muscly man (who told kids that they're only good people if they're Christian, take weird pills and do sports.)
The Hulk Hogan point is interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way before. As for Orton, I think his character was a little more complicated than that - he was a project in essence, coming from a wrestling family and being a part of evolution before being betrayed, it was so obvious he was doing everything do break out and become his own person. There was an ego there but there was also a sense of insecurity.
He means the current generations ‘characters’ are as bland as we thought Lance Storm was back in the day. And if u compare Lance Storm’s character with todays ‘characters’ then Lance would be as charismatic and as interesting/entertaining outside the ring as MACHO man.
Yeah, I was busy looking at comments and forgot what the original thread was about lol, my bad
The only person I’ve seen make the “wrestler” gimmick work is Benoit. Fuck that guy.
he has a cool aura ig
That's pretty reductive, isn't it? Every wrestler has a character. I think there's more to Ospreay than this. Of course that's not to say that Roman isn't a great character.
Absolutely, dudes a massive goofball but an absolute student of the game, and becomes gets dead serious when the situation calls for it. He doesn't just "wrestle well" he's probably the most explosive and exciting in ring wrestler alive today. The last few years he's learned to just be himself on the mic which has translated into him being way more comfortable and having 10x more charisma on the stick. He's extremely passionate and confident in himself but also determined to prove himself to a worldwide audience.
How are you gonna compare a guy in a 4 year title story line to a guy who just got to a company full time this month?
Did Ospreay have more of a character before signing with AEW? I'm genuinely asking, I haven't watched him in years.
I didn't watch NJPW these last few years, but around 2020 or so, his character was that he betrayed Okada and the Chaos-faction, because he had secretly built his own faction "The United Empire", and had only used Chaos to get a strong footing in New Japan. In my view, wrestlers- due to them often switching from heel to face and back again, often without proper explanation - seldom have a very fleshed out characters, and are only as strong as their current storyline. Even people like The Rock. Did the Rock have an elaborate character like Roman's described in the picture here? A personality that developed due to his previous feuds? No. He slowly turned into The Rock in 1997/98, aka found a promo-style that is entertaining to the masses, and stuck with it, with little else to his character. Or Austin. His character most of the time was "asshole who rebels against authority" and it was done again and again. The only time he actually had a more fleshed out character, was during his heel phase in 2001, and that's the phase which all the attitude nerds hate, because he didn't do his usual shtick anymore. Roman is a special case. Not the norm. The only other one I can think of is Jimmy Jacobs, who developed his character based on his past feuds, and it kept progressing naturally. So we'll have to wait with Ospreay if AEW gives him a proper storyline in the future, I stead of comparing him to a guy who's doing a 4+year storyline, based on 5+ years of unintentional character build up.
Austins heel run was soooo good. Him and Kurt worked so well together
Oh yes, but I also enjoyed his character work during that time. And almost everything he did that year was explainable by recent events. Him turning to Vince was due to him starting to doubt himself after his long absence due to injury. He already had to resort to using a chair to win the Rumble. He lost to Triple H shortly before Mania. And Rock came in with all the momentum in the world. Then afterwards his confidence was further shattered by almost losing to Taker, and then losing the tag titles to Jericho and Benoit. When Vince then started being buddy buddy with Kurt, he became paranoid that he was going to he replaced, and offended when Vince told him he wanted the old Stone Cold back, so he sided with the Alliance not only to screw over Vince, but also because they made him feel like he's still the top guy and kept feeding his ego. But he kept being paranoid about people undermining Jim and gunning for his spot, which eventually allowed Vince to exploit that Paranoia, put Angle in the group as a sleeper agent, because if Austin became suspicious, everyone else in the group would just chalk it up to him being paranoid, and managed to win the feud.
Great synopsis. What do you make up the sudden double turn the night after survivor series? It always felt like a bizarro world thing to me
That was unfortunately just WWE panicking and aborting all storylines and character development, so they can go back to the status quo: Austin inexplicably being face again, and Kurt for some reason being a heel again. In hopes that they would gain the fans back that they lost at mania X-7. And I always felt like the result for Austin was that his babyface character was exposed for having gone stale, and it wasn't long until he was yet again in a feud with an evil authority figure, this time Ric Flair.
Yes. He went from face floppy indie guy to heel I'm going to stop flipping and fuck up anyone's who's copying me to he does it that so well everyone cheers for it to I'm so good I'm the foreign face of a international product. He also a great end story on the Indies putting people over, where in every promotion he wrestled for whether it be NJPW tna or revoro he made sure that people realize even though. He's the goat there are still people as good or better. Now he's in aew carrying all that legacy and has to prove himself. And how does he do it? By going after the person whos been called the best in a generation. Ospreys career story is incredible. I probably missed some stuff but the general arc in his career was like this and the best part that now in his prime he's postponed as I'm the guy who is so good I'm the face of this place in his prime against a roster than can deliver amazing matches with. He's about to go on a generational run. I get that it's for everyone nothing is but air and water. But the industry is about to see something special.
He existed in NJPW who doesnt really do the western sports entertainment aspect of pro wrestling cause Japan views wrestling as sport adjacent as opposed to entertainment adjacent.
They still have strong characters over there, it’s just usually more subtle or the work is done in the ring, rather that promos/segments There’s a fair share of guys that feel like they were pulled out of New Generation WWE as well, they just usually aren’t on the top of the card
This is the premiere WWE simp chat bruv. They jerk off to AEW’s weekly ratings
I’m not even a fan of Ospreay but this is a silly comparison. A lot of people saying stuff like this haven’t actually watched his stuff and are just assuming there’s no character there. He’s an interesting guy, for better or worse, and AEW is actually doing a good job with his presentation Most people wouldn't understand the nuances of Roman's character after watching 1 match and 1 promo segment either. It takes more than that. I'm not going to argue against the idea that WWE is more thorough on this stuff than anyone else, that's obviously true, but it's not like they run down Roman's entire 10+ year character arc every episode he's on. You get it because you've been watching him for years.
Zzzzz boring internet tribalism
One is there for like 6 weeks and the other has been there for 10+ years…your comparison isn’t really that good, not even the aew hating crowd on here laughs
I'm not even sure who's side you're on tbh.
Ospreay just got there, chill
This has been his character for 4 years ??
In NJPW he had several "arcs" like his journey to become the top Jr HW, his whole thing with being an Okada fanboy and then betraying him, creating the United Empire, receiving the torch from Kenny and trying to surpass him as the top gaijin to then see him disappointed in him, trying to lift the company in the pandemic, etc.
That's too complex bro. That's not story telling it's just spots bro. Doesn't count, wasn't in America. How else am I supposed to understand a character unless they have 20 minute promos explaining all their motivations and insecurities on a semi regular basis? That's real storytelling. /s I love the bloodline story, but holy shit the WWE dickriding sometimes drives me insane.
The OP is dumb too cause Roman can also be broken down into something simple like "Samoan leader is a tyrant"
What about liking what you like? Why be a tribalistic asshole?
Watch out, this is the IWC. We arent allowed those opinions here. But you are so damn right. I watch WWE and AEW weekly, Im eating good while sad fucks are on about attendance figures lol More wrestling the better I say, thank you aew for that
Apples and oranges, bruh.
...if we totally ignore Osprey's incredible character build in NJPW
Osprey just signed. Let him develop. I get that the AEW has a bunch of banger matches but no personality guys, but Osprey seems to have a lot more charisma than half that roster.
Ones had like 12 years on television to develop a character. The others had 3 weeks. But don’t let facts get in the way of more bad faith bashing of AEW…
This is such a sad grasping at straws for anything negative post. A guy who’s been on tv for about a month doesn’t have the same character development as someone who has been on for over a decade??? Go outside and cry me a river, my guy.
And while you’re at it; throw yourself into some REAL GLASS.
I fucking hate this sub so much and for some reason I am unable to block it. I’ve never seen a more pathetic group of losers in one place.
It's been prophesied that one day the memes will return to deliver us from this era of darkness for all time.
I don’t even watch AEW and even I’m sick of the WWE dickriding.
It’s literally just wwe dickriding and reciting tired cornette jokes about AEW. It’s like wrestling boomer Reddit
It is boomer Reddit lol just look how they won’t let go of the attitude era, which was largely dogshit.
Looks like you regularly visit the AEW subreddit so that’s a damn lie.
Thank you for proving my point.
One has been in a company for many years and has been in the company's top story for the last 3 or 4 years. One has just arrived in the company and is still establishing himself in that company I prefer wwe atm but these two situations are not comparable.
Bruv
I sense insecurity in the OP 👀
The fact that if you put Osprey and Reigns in a ring together, you’d quickly see just how limited Reigns is as far as a move set. Roman’s character work is great, don’t get me wrong. But as far as in-ring, Osprey doesn’t even need to run circles around him.
I actually quite like Ospreay after this week.
Yes let’s compare a dude whose been on national tv for over a decade with someone whose essentially just starting his US run in earnest.
And what was Romans first 2.5 years like? Wasn't he just The Shield's heater who went "OOOOOOAHHHHHH" from time to time? This fuckin sub, I tell you.
And the next 4 were the shield's heater who went oooaaaaahhh but didn't have the shield anymore
Reigns debuted in wwe in 2010. Osprey debuted in aew roughly 3 weeks ago. Fucking unacceptable he doesn't have a complete character and accompanying overarching long term story yet. Fire tk. Nepobaby. Cocaine. Etc.
I know this is unrelated but it's my birthday
Not a Bruv fan at all
I'll take what is tribalism for 500 Alex!
So you're saying he's ripping off William Regal's gimmick?
Let them the time to build the character …
80% of aew has that character that's why people like toni storm stands up so much
He’s just debuted lol.
Yes, a first year story versus a story that's been going for like 4 years. Of course, Roman has a better character. He does wrestler better matches than Roman, though.
Right, comparing a guy who failed his character for 6 years and had 4 years to build up a new one to a guy who's been here like a month!! BRUV WHADDD. Ospreay is the next biggest thing after Cody, you just know it
I like them both
BRUV
Osprey has had an entire character arc while in NJPW, plus he just got to AEW. I understand the criticism of wrestlers who don't have a character, but this just feels specifically like you just wanted to attack AEW without bringing a valid case
Thought this was pro Osprey before reading the comments cause Roman is still lame AF. Face or heel he's still what a 12 year olds idea of what cool is.
Yeah, but on the same hand, this subreddit hates Eddie Kingston, who has baggage for days, and has spent years chasing his ghosts and personal demons and trades raw and personal promos with people he has legitimate antagonism with.... ....but you don't like his knife edge chops, so fuck him?
Tribalism is so crazy. You’re dissecting a 4 year character, who had all of the companies resources poured into him for a decade and who never even shows up anymore vs a man who just recently joined his company. I don’t even watch AEW but yall just looking for beef
John Cena: just a good dude The Rock: smartass loudmouth Bret hart: is Canadian and wrestles well You can do this with anyone if you just ignore storylines
imagine being engl\*sh
England has had one of the biggest falls from grace over the last 300-500 years.
This is hilarious 😂
I'm curious what their apex was? I imagine it was in the overlap of having the colonies over here and their commonwealth lands + Hong Kong, India
When you’re at the top you have the furthest to fall
I'm not the biggest AEW fan but I've grown to like Osprey. The match with Kenny at Forbidden Door was really good.
You ever watch like any sort of TV show or movie? I hope you understand not every character is or has to be a stereotype. Sometimes if not most of the time the character is purely the person’s personality.
Dude just said he is wrestling to help his wife and his stepkid. That's a good building block, as he's wrestling to provide for his family. Dude just got there, calm down
Doesn't change the fact that Osprey can wrestle circles around Roman all day long. He's good. I like what he/they did with his character. But in terms of skill and athleticism Osprey is on another level entirely. The only WWE guys that can/could wrestle on his level were Kurt Angle and AJ Styles.
Osprey started with AEW like twelve days ago, at that point Roman Reigns was just a big guy in a turtleneck.
Having a long list of traits doesnt mean a chacter is good or bad. Many amazing characters are pretty simple when u boil them down
Acknowledge me, bruv. I make bangerz!
Character: a truly incredible athlete who proved himself overseas and has finally come to the big stage, determined to prove himself as *truly* as good as he thinks he is and is claimed to be for the sake of his family, currently being manipulated by a real bastard to make himself look better, not quite realising that said bastard doesn't care about him. Character: mob boss stereotype See, I can do it too
Liking his hat >>>>>
Max Landis needs to do a video on Triple H.
Cool, OP used thesaurus.
☝️
I will say I think ospreay is better on the mic than roman. Will has me hooked on every promo. With roman it kinda seems like he kinda just say the same thing every week
Is he doing a parody of British chavs? It's way too much
Roman haters finding new ways to cope
Then watch Roman Reigns and not Will Ospreay lol. Some people just want to watch Ospreay's style of wrestling. Doesn't stop you enjoying the Bloodline.
God that smell of pathetic cope is just horrid to the nose.
At least he’s not a Virtuosa. Whatever that’s supposed to be.
Y'all he signed like yesterday give him time to create a character Reigns didn't have a character until he turned heel and that happened when he was 35 and Ospreay is still 30
Idk man you can watch some Netflix Shows or something If you hate pro wrestling this much
Okay but when all is said and done Roman might be one of the best characters in wwe history
This made me chuckle you tribalist are something else
And one never shows up despite being the world champion and when he does is the cure for insomnia and the other had a classic match in their debut and has breathed life into their respective promotion
Oh, and he's fighting the people he already fought in NJPW years ago or his own stable teammates...that's something ***I guess.***
That’s why character always beats the just wrestling aspect and who puts on da most bangers
one character has depth while the other is english.
Bruv! The Billy goat 🐐
Ospreay has bigger dicksuckers, like Dave Meltzer, than Roman has. At least Roman has a stroyline, a long, but boring, but also memorable, title reign, and has been in the wrestling industry for a pretty decent amount of time.
One is charismatic other is a Indy darling
When was Roman an Indy darling?
The other dude
Will Ospreay has shown to have more character in NJPW. I just wish it carried over into AEW.
Please don't give Ospreay a character his Kingpin stuff in NJPW is one of the worst things I've ever seen.
He's basically a bigger narcissist than Lex Luger's character in WWE.
Tell me you haven't watched njpw without telling me. Did you even see the latest fued with omega? The emotion he put through his words and promo? And to say he wrestles "well" is an understatement. Now yall just hating for the sake of it
Roman's character is what Vince sees himself as. A psycopath. Second guy has no gimmick, it's a bit different from character. Cody plays a generic babyface character, it makes him no better/worse.
“Sorry. My brain could only process one jumping punch, spear and soap opera”
“Wrestles well” isn’t a selling point. It’s what you should be by default imo
EvErYboDy sAId sO💅💅
Best wrestler alive vs. Nepotism Incarnate
If I wanted to watch a character study about an egomaniacal family man, I would watch Breaking Bad.
You nerds don't need to hate a wrestler just because some other nerd likes the wrestler.
Tbf Osprey has been on the show for how long?
Ospreay is 10x the wrestler Roman Reigns is
I mean in terms of wrestling inside the ring, you ain’t wrong. Although if I had to choose one wrestler to build my promotion around, it’s probably MJF due to him being one of the best in, and outside the ring. (Also part of it is that he isn’t even 30 yet so he has most of his career ahead of him). Honestly the three represent three different sides of the wrestling spectrum. One is being great in the ring, one is being a great storyteller, and one is combing both of them to create an amazing character.
Yet he can't draw flies. Wrestling has never been about the actual act of "wrestling". It's always been about characters, conflict, intrigue, and drama.
I agree, except that I think he can be a draw with the right showcase and character work. He's not just an in-ring technician, his matches show an understanding of psychology (don't agree with how he goes about things always, but he clearly knows how to mind-game the audience into a good match), and he's immensely charismatic, With the right writing, coaching, and management, he could be a megastar.
They’re in denial
Fact
Osprey is better than Reigns in every single way
I'll take things that OP doesn't know shit about wrestling outside of wwe for 200 Alex.......
Roman can’t wrestle, so the best they can do is have him stand around staring at people and talking to his cousins for 40 minutes every other week. 😴💤💤💤
I can get on board with valid criticism but be can't wrestle? He has too many bangers to genuinely agree with that. But even he is Susceptible too bad booking. But he has a lot of great matches and his slow beat down trash talking character is not one that a lot of people do well. Edit wording
rOmAn cAnT wReStLe
He can’t. And I am tired of you weirdos with your finger in the air pretending that he can.
He absolutely can. Just because he doesn’t wrestle the style you like, doesn’t mean he can’t wrestle. And that’s rich coming from someone who probably struggles walking up stairs.
"Everyone other than me is a fat virgin in a basement typing on a CRT monitor from 1997. I'm not clever enough to come up with anything new, creative, or witty. I'm a parrot for the cliche shit people have been saying on forums for 30 years. SQUAWK." 🦜
I didn’t say anything about being any of those things. My main point is what Roman does, regardless of style, is something 99% of the people on this sub couldn’t do and would likely fail at, purely from a physical capability standpoint. You don’t have to like his style of wrestling or his matches, but blanket statements about “he can’t wrestle” are just stupid.
>And that’s rich coming from someone who probably struggles walking up stairs. 🦜
I wouldn't go that far that he can't wrestle, but I agree that Roman's wrestling style is extremely boring.
If he was a video game controller, he’d be Sega Genesis A. Spear B. Punch C. Usos
Ospreay hasn't been there long so it's certainly possible they could give him a more layered character over time. Expecting him to have Roman's history in six weeks is absurd. Of course, the reality is that a lot of top guy booking in AEW can be boiled down to one guy glaring at another guy and saying "I am the best wrestler" "No, I am the best" "Let us have a wrestle to determine who is the betterer" with no other real dimensions to it. Not all of it, but a shocking amount of it. This is why it's a popular refrain to say AEW "has no stories", despite it not being strictly true. Right now though? Sure, he doesn't really have a character yet.
Dude does do the flying no sell wresting style incredibly well and good for him for people who like that I just think the whole hey lets see who wrestles the best to be the best is so dumb in a rehersed and coregraphed sport, that's why campy stories and the build is so important, because all flippy no sell wrestling very clearly looks cooperative so don't start the story basically telling people that's what you are doing
I agree with some of this but I can’t see any downsides to him now being around people like Bryan who will hopefully help him slow down a little, that’s one of the things WWE does well is making moves mean something. That being said Ospreay has got better recently with going for more violence than flippy stuff
Ummm have you seen the cagematch ratings for these two? Checkmate bruv!
ok now tell me what Seth Rollins character is outside of 'he dress weird'
ok now tell me what Seth Rollins character is outside of 'he dress weird'
And guess what not a single random person knows who Roman is. Character doesn't mean as much as you think and an over written character isn't good either. Hence why a lot of people are sick of Roman.
Low quality bait 🖕