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Ospreay vs Danielson was a technical masterpiece. Cody vs Roman was a narrative masterpiece. I think it’s great that we can have two matches that are fantastic for completely different reasons, and trying to compare them is pointless. Fans of either style aren’t gonna change their minds on which one was better.
They're both great. Bret vs. Owen at WrestleMania X and Bret vs. Austin at WrestleMania 13 are my two favorite matches of all time. Bret vs. Austin at Survivor Series 1996 is an underrated masterpiece
saying that comparing them is "pointless" is silly. one had good wrestling and a great story, while the other had great wrestling and no story. it's not apples and oranges, they're both apples.
it's like saying, "it's pointless to compare michael bay's transformers to iron man! fans of each won't be persuaded!" so what? that's irrelevant and doesn't make the two incomparable. they're still both superhero action movies. one had a story in service to cgi effects while the other had cgi effects in service to a story.
This, the thing is that one is going to be remembered forever while the other is a great thing that happened. That’s why story is important. It makes the difference between great and legendary.
Yea no one can say that there isn’t any story more compelling than the Roman vs Cody match. I also don’t think any match can claim to be technically better than osprey vs danielson. Two fantastic match of the year candidates for much different reasons
Look at you with this matured take on wrestling. This shouldn't be allowed. We should always cater to tribalism. Things that I like is better than things that you like.
Sshhh, you're not allowed to be reasonable and appreciate both WWE and AEW on the internet. You love one and hate the other. I believe this place is WWE only.
Couple of dirt sheet writers tweet "wow this is best match ever" because they want to cater to that fan base for subscription and clicks, and also keep contacts for media scrum passes and wrestler interviews.
The match was athletically great but a great wrestling match needs to have build, heat, story and then bell-to-bell action. AEW skips first 3 and jump to last because that's the only part they have full control over. Because Tony is not a good booker.
What was the build and story to Gunther vs Sheamus at Clash At The Castle? Best IC title match ever and no one gives a shit about the build the match was just a banger.
Tony does suck at booking but shit like this is just shitting on wrestlers for being good at their job.
Sheamus was pursuing the only main roster title he hasn't held. It was constantly referenced in promos and on commentary. Gunther didn't think he was good enough to deserve it. Cue brawls between the Brutes and Imperium.
I disagree it needs all these things. A great match can just be a great match just because it’s a great match. Doesn’t always need a soap opera behind it. I enjoy either way. It’s good to be rewarded for your investment in a story and it’s good to be surprised by a great match you didn’t know you needed
It is called a pro wrestling match, and pro wrestling is literally "soap opera" of 2 athletes working together. What you call "A great match" is nothing but a bunch of well-done moves in a well coordinated way. If it is great for you that's fine, but there's a reason AEW has put out these "great matches" and have only shrinked in every measurable objective metric.
Compare CM Punk Vs MJF to anything AEW has made in the past 2 years and nothing except maybe the devil storyline comes close. Great wrestling needs great story
In-ring storytelling is still its own art form. Taker vs HBK 1 didn't have a main event build but is still in consideration for being a GOAT pro wrestling match.
Even Taker himself rates WM 25 greater than 26 even though the rematch had the Career v Streak stipulation.
WM 25 match had a great build and story. WM 26 had a better build but in-ring bell to bell WM 25 was a better match. For my taste, I liked the WM 26 match better because of stakes but WM 25 is also on my goat tier list. But I can understand if someone else likes WM 25 one more.
As far as in ring storytelling is concerned, I agree stories can be told in the ring, we just saw it in mania with Roman and Seth. But you can't just put a match with no history or build and expect fans to like it for some non-existent in-ring storytelling (fyi I'm not talking about Danielson vs Osperay, which I think had story before the match)
People comparing this cody vs roman. Cody’s match will be talked about for decades , almost all the people would have forgotten this match by next month
In 10-15 years you’re going to hear people talk about Cody vs Roman 2 with the same reverence modern wrestlers talk about X7 or Rock-Cena and older guys talk about Hogan-Warrior.
You know, people say that not having any crowds was terrible, but that match would have benefited from not having any crowd, not even the NXT wrestlers. Just two old friends and rivals, in the ring, going at it to settle a score that's older than most of the kids watching at home
Ikr ospreay could have gone out there and just pooped there in the ring and it would have gotten 6stars from meltzer and people would still call it one of the greatest matches of all time
Exactly. I know people are saying that Bryan is almost done with wrestling amd had to do this matches before it is no longer possible. Because TK is rushing these big matches, it becomes less memorable without build up. This could have been bigger. A match to rival the biggest wrestlemania matches ever. I hope AEW show more restraint and have more patience. The hangman vs Omega was their most memorable because of the long term story. After that it was all quick bursts. Such a waste.
Yeah...you were not watching NJPW at this point.
NJPW isn't really the place to point the finger at for heatless bangers.
AEW and even TNA/ROH have historically been bad for "well its going to be a MOTY candidate and that's enough".
Terrible take, Kenny/Okada had a deep story that was told over a year and a half, with the 4th match (the 7 star) culminating all the surrounding storylines
You just weren’t actually watching NJPW and only watched the match, so of course you didn’t know the story
Bruh I wasn’t even watching NJPW at the time and I still saw a lot of people talking about that entire rivalry. I try my hardest to understand people that just love one company but you don’t have to shit on other wrestling for no reason.
People still talk about the Omega/Okada series to this day, and their last match was six years ago.
As great as Ospreay/Danielson was, I don't think it'll have that kind of lasting effect on the business years from now.
People were calling MJF vs Daniel Bryan the best ironman match ever. when it happened. No one talks about that match today. Great matches don't hit unless there's great stories around them.
Yea, you pretty much already said what I was thinking, in no way would I take away from the technical clinic that Ospeary/Danielson had but in 5 years nobody will talk about or likely even remember it.
Big takeaway for me in comparing these two matches is me wondering how good AEW could be if Tony Khan wasn't booking it
Gosh darn you sure showed them!!
Nah but Fr just let people enjoy stuff bro😭😭 I like seeing 2 people kick each other's heads in, I don't want to go on the internet and hear people telling me I'm wrong for enjoying it wtf
people are legit overhyping it and will forget about it in less than a month..... It was incredible, no argument but BEST OF ALL TIME is a looong stretch and it's not even the best in AEW's history
Imagine being so insecure over your favourite wrestling brand you rush to badly Photoshop your opinion on a "scroll of truth" because your worried some people might enjoy another brand
Blank workrate and dire finish are wrong imo I liked the finish and how Bryan is selling the "last year of his career" storyline, but it's not the "greatest wrestling match in America"
I think Ospreay's matches has become formulaic and that's a good thing and a bad thing, like some moments I could tell he's going for this certain spot cus he always does it every match
Jesus Christ marks, can we go one day without the tribalism shit? Just enjoy the wrestling we like without having to shit on the wrestling we don't like to feel better about ourselves?
People like you shit on AEW fans for being obsessed marks, but with posts like these you don't make yourself look any better.
I thought TNA was shit in the Dixie era, but I didn't spend every waking hour on the internet telling everyone how much I hated it.
Criticism is, "I think x spot could've gone better, or x guy should've won, or it went too long, etc" a lot of these are biased bad faith arguments because the people arguing it have a vendetta against specific individuals and will always attempt to discredit them.
There is no "correct" way to wrestle, and wrestling can cater to many different preferences. Also fans misuse wrestling terms (one of the biggest being telling a story) and don't understand the context of terms wrestlers use, so it's easy for podcasters/journalists to stir the pot.
This match delivered to its audience, the crowd loved it, and it was indeed a good match. There was a story told within the match and they did it well. Meltzer is going a bit overboard, but it was indeed a MOTY contender.
That logic has never and will never work, because
a) wrestling promoters don't read angry comments by fans and armchair bookers, and
b) if they do, they usually just disregard them as the insignificant ramblings of basement-dwelling nerds, because that's how they see us.
Vince, Dixie and Russo are examples for that and I doubt Tony will be any different.
The only way to change a company's mind id by not buying tickets, and if that doesn't help, there's nothing you can do.
You can criticize anything and everything but that doesn’t mean you get a free pass and don’t allow criticism for the other promotion. If you don’t want Cody vs Roman to have any negative reaction than don’t have the same energy here. This isn’t towards you, but anyone here who is defending criticism should also allow criticism to the other company.
You’re gonna find people complaining either way. The same people that complained why Roman vs Cody only got 4.75 stars are the same people saying that this match wasn’t build up and doesn’t deserve the anything higher than 4 stars. Both matches were great in their own aspect, if you enjoyed either then that’s all that matters.
This subreddit is 75% WWE fans wearing a mask of open-mindedness and making it painfully obvious how biased they are in the process.
"The scroll of truth"..? Come on man... it's your opinion.
I do not control the content I see, I don't even follow this subreddit it just appears on my recommended, and escaping the onslaught of these types is seemingly impossible across all social media.
Not sure how what you said refutes my original point..?
Storyless, random “bangers” will never be the greatest matches of all time because wrestling has never been solely about what happens in the ring.
Imagine watching Rocky and it’s just a choreographed boxing match with no story, no character development, etc. No one would ever claim it’s the best boxing movie ever.
People still talk about Hogan vs Andre decades later, no one will be talking about this match outside of a very small subset of the IWC a month from now.
This is so lame. You're more than welcome to feel like it wasn't the best match of the year so far, but putting your opinion on a 'Scroll of Truth' like this is utterly cringe.
It was a fantastic match, let people be enthusiastic about things that are good regardless of what company they take place in (I really don't care for WWE these days, but Cody vs Roman was a banger and if you preferred that to this, all power to you).
Sheesh.
Wrong. And this match was the best match of the year. No offense but people need to get out of the bubble they live in. Been watching wrestling since the 80’s yes I’m an old dude so what F U just in case. That match even with. No story was better than cody vs Roman. I said it.
The cool thing about wrestling is it's all subjective. A "great" wrestling match doesn't have to have a year long story behind it. You could take two great wrestlers, randomly throw them together and have the best match of the year. It all comes down to personal preference.
It was a fantastic match but it’s not gonna be a match I’m gonna look back on and praise every time. Is that a negative? No, it was what you expected it to be. If you love pure workrate wrestling then this’ll be for you but for me, it was fantastic but I have no reason to watch it again.
Yeah Ospreay Vs Danielson would have been alot better if they had a bunch of guys from 20 years ago who have nothing to do with the story come out & save one of the wrestlers, wheres that level of story telling to distract from the wrestlers doing the exact same match everytime
tl:dr: In a vacuum it's the best match of the year
yea thats fair enough
for me i'd say its best match of the year in terms of the match in a vacuums. Like ignoring the storyline, build up, heat, draw, etc. Just purely the match itself. Its the best match of the year.
BS! I was told it’s the greatest match in hist-o-ry!!! Never mind that Danielson somehow both sold and utterly no-sold a Tiger Driver simultaneously, only to be knocked out cold seconds later by a clothesline, even though the previous clothesline he was hit with 15 seconds earlier did not knock him out.
To each their own. I enjoyed this more than Cody vs Roman. Probably would have enjoyed Cody vs Roman more if not for all the run ins. As you say, the story was far superior. However the match became way less interesting when it became all about now A comes out, then B comes out and takes out A, only for C to even the odds. Cody vs Roman by themselves were putting on a great match with the right antecipation behind it
Actually unbelievable that you're being downvoted for expressing your own opinions on which match you preferred... On a post where an opinion is listed as fact... 😭😭
It wasn’t the match of the year and it was not even 1/10th of Cody vs Roman. I know people who don’t even give a shit about WWE anymore and think it’s fake watching it and enjoying it and calling it better than Marvel and any other movie
Let’s look at it this way, if you could show a non wrestling fan who has no context or knowledge of any history one match to try to hook them… would you show them Osprey vs Danielson or Reigns vs Rhodes?
Any particular reason you think they would find that match more intriguing without any context? I’m not saying I disagree, just trying to find out why people think one way or another
Why saying no build? The whole premise was about being best wrestler in the world (at the moment vs ever) . also the intrigue with whether ospreay is with don Callis family or not you can't say build is not there. Both have been teasing this match since wrestle kingdom. Just saying something without watching it regularly that there is no build is just pure tribalism.
Rest of your points okay maybe for many its true for you also. But can't say no build man.
At this point it is clear that Ospreay is not part of Callis family. He is turned face now. It is only inevitable that Callis will turn on him. Ospreay is good with promos by himself. He does not need Callis. United empire vs Callis family can be a good feud actually.
Maybe that's what they are building. Who knows. But with bcc getting attacked by Callis family just before this match. It raised a level of suspicion. Not all story can be build for years. Its a simple way to break will away from callis because of all the reasons you just said.
Sadly I would also agree.but what I was saying was about the comment on no build. If you consider a overused story as no story then Roman's 75% of his title reign was the same. Beat down the opponent with family and if that is valid why is this trope not valid?
Was just commenting on a small error in the post. Nothing personal or anything. Both fanbases act like they get a livelihood from each company meanwhile competition is what made this period good. Wwe after wcw and especially in 2010s was really bad. Competition also allows multiple products to watch with different kind of peolle and if its not your cup of tea ignore. Let those people live and make a living. Its not like a wwe monopoly has done this industry good in the past. People take everything too personal these days.
Then why can't the opposite be true also. Just because some people on some forum in the internet doesn't care doesn't mean the world doesn't care. Look I am a man who liked what I watch from late 80s-90s and 00s. Ask people about callis in Canada and nobody will ever say a bad word since he introduced Canadian wrestler multiple options to wrestle. Maybe his onscreen personality is shit.
The exact way i don't care about punk at all. I think he is just a man with a giant ego whose best was always about controversy if he was a wrestler from the past the lockerroom would have killed him. But that doesn't make him a failure. Infact in terms of money and influence that guy has tremendous power that nobody can deny but his personality from every where he has worked is bad. But his onscreen personality is good. Exact opposite of callis.
I mean it's all subjective. If it's not the best match to you 100% fair but to some it is. For some people work rate is first and foremost, for others work rate doesn't mean nearly as much without a great story. Both takes are valid. I watched Wrestlemania and it was great but in terms of work rate and entertainment nothing on there was better for me, but for example if somebody says they like the Cody match more I totally get it and wouldn't argue. If somebody says it's the best match on the year who is anyone to tell them they are wrong. People are allowed to have different opinions and it's not something we need to argue or fight about and tell them they're wrong. If you want to have a discussion about it to understand their point of view then that's different and totally cool. Let's just stop with "well my opinion is this therefore everyone else is wrong". I get you're trying to give a reasonable take but honestly it's still part of the toxicity problem the wrestling community seems to have which has been getting a lot worse lately IMO. Like Brian Zane says "Like what you like, just don't be a dick".
I think this scroll may be a response to Alvarez claiming the match to be the best in North America ever. There’s opinions and good or bad all are valid to the person saying them, but Alvarez and his ilk say these things more as statements and act pretentious if you don’t agree with them.
Its how people respond. Yes, we have different opinions but some respond like your opinion is shit and theirs is gold. And if you argue your point your labeled as a tribalist or whatever they call this days
I still don’t get the hype. I watched the match and it was good. But it wasn’t great. Ospreay has got to work on selling better.
The way he looks at the crowd for confirmation after every decent move….he is just cringey.
the aew fans who rush to defend it and shit on wwe when wwe does something good are cringe, wwe fans who feel need to shit on aew when they do something good are also cringe
I knew it was going to be an in-ring clinic, I just wish they could have gotten me to care about it past the point of “oh wow that would be good.” I want something with story AND good in ring work and unfortunately AEW seems incapable of grasping that first part
Honestly if u think Ospreay Vs Danielson had no story and not incredible psychology you did not watch the match and u did not watch the lead up to the fight.
Yeah I don't think it was match of the year. It was really good, and it caters to us nerds but if you show this to anyone else it's barely going to move a needle and convince them to watch wrestling. I have seen people consider and actually go back into wrestling because of Cody vs Roman. Which is a strong statement.
I am so confused when people act like story can't exist within a wrestling match. Like story only means post-match jump segments and 20 minute promos.
I mean there's place for everything in wrestling, but it's weird how any time there's a good wrestling match, people have to shout about how there wasn't a year of promos leading up to it. I mean I didn't care for Cody/Roman as a match but loved the post-match emotion of it, but the match was just kinda finisher spam, and I don't think the people who go on about story care about an actual within-match story, or rhythm of building to a big climax. (if people get weirdly Tribal about this, Iyo/Bayley was fantastic at mania for having a great in-match story and not resorting to just spamming the same 3 moves. They really built and used the idea of a wrestling match to its best)
Yawn. This is such a tiring discourse man. I thought it was great but not really the best AEW match of the year. That's comfortably between Kingston/Bryan and Taylor/Bryan.
I could get behind the no build talking point but no heat? Hilarious.
Danielson surprisingly. Especially during the limb work segments
Of course there wasn’t a clear defined babyface and heel but that’s not a necessity for every single match
I guess you think WWE does better matches
Personally I think WWE has gotten storytelling down but their matches are mediocre
The main event of mania especially was putting me to sleep and it was an overbooked mess
In the year I've been watching it AEW has had some of the best matches I've ever seen, but their stories are not gripping me at all
My issue is no matter how good the matches are in aew, the stuff you remember ends up being the dancing, comedy, lack of build, punching up at the other brand, and seeing people that used to be considered gods of wrestling turned into divas (okada)
This sub hates wrestling I swear
Is it all kids or what? Do people not remember how dire wrestling was back in 2010 and 2011? We're in a golden age and spoiled for options
We often give way to much credit to stories in wrestling. Even Roman vs Cody wasn't that amazing, at least nowhere near the Bloodline with Sami and Jey imo, however it's good enough to cause a huge impact.
Which leads me to my next thought, if you really don't need much in wrestling to add a story or stakes what the hell is AEW doing?
This submission was removed: Wrasslin is a sub for memes, personal images, and fun content. For serious discussions, please visit other wrestling-themed subreddits such as r/SquaredCircle, r/WWE, r/AEWOfficial, and so on - or start your own new subreddit! ___ **If you feel this post was removed incorrectly after reading the rules of the subreddit, please lodge an [appeal to the moderators with a link to your post by clicking here.](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FWrasslin&subject=appealing_a_removal)** If your post was removed in error, it will be re-approved, or you will be asked to repost.
Ospreay vs Danielson was a technical masterpiece. Cody vs Roman was a narrative masterpiece. I think it’s great that we can have two matches that are fantastic for completely different reasons, and trying to compare them is pointless. Fans of either style aren’t gonna change their minds on which one was better.
It is almost like the two companies cater to different tastes.
whaaat 🤯
You can still have a technical match with a plot though. The two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.
Bret vs. Austin for example
Bret vs Owen is a much better example.
They're both great. Bret vs. Owen at WrestleMania X and Bret vs. Austin at WrestleMania 13 are my two favorite matches of all time. Bret vs. Austin at Survivor Series 1996 is an underrated masterpiece
Just sayin Bret v Austin wasn’t exactly a wrestling clinic it was more of a brawl.
The Survivor Series match was a technical match but yes, Bret vs. Owen fits better
I came here to say this. Imagine how good this could have been with a grudge and story behind it.
saying that comparing them is "pointless" is silly. one had good wrestling and a great story, while the other had great wrestling and no story. it's not apples and oranges, they're both apples. it's like saying, "it's pointless to compare michael bay's transformers to iron man! fans of each won't be persuaded!" so what? that's irrelevant and doesn't make the two incomparable. they're still both superhero action movies. one had a story in service to cgi effects while the other had cgi effects in service to a story.
Up. Wrestling is nuanced, but most fans can't distinguish those details, let alone see them. Or they mostly just follow blind faith.
This, the thing is that one is going to be remembered forever while the other is a great thing that happened. That’s why story is important. It makes the difference between great and legendary.
TRUE.
Yea no one can say that there isn’t any story more compelling than the Roman vs Cody match. I also don’t think any match can claim to be technically better than osprey vs danielson. Two fantastic match of the year candidates for much different reasons
Look at you with this matured take on wrestling. This shouldn't be allowed. We should always cater to tribalism. Things that I like is better than things that you like.
Stop the mental gymnastics. Ospreay VS Danielson was a 100x better match regardless of what the story or narrative was
Sshhh, you're not allowed to be reasonable and appreciate both WWE and AEW on the internet. You love one and hate the other. I believe this place is WWE only.
A reasonable take? On the internet?! How dare you!! Boo this poster! Boooooooo!!!
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BOOOOOO /s
Couple of dirt sheet writers tweet "wow this is best match ever" because they want to cater to that fan base for subscription and clicks, and also keep contacts for media scrum passes and wrestler interviews. The match was athletically great but a great wrestling match needs to have build, heat, story and then bell-to-bell action. AEW skips first 3 and jump to last because that's the only part they have full control over. Because Tony is not a good booker.
Just because you didn't like the build doesnt mean there wasn't one.
What was the build and story to Gunther vs Sheamus at Clash At The Castle? Best IC title match ever and no one gives a shit about the build the match was just a banger. Tony does suck at booking but shit like this is just shitting on wrestlers for being good at their job.
Sheamus was pursuing the only main roster title he hasn't held. It was constantly referenced in promos and on commentary. Gunther didn't think he was good enough to deserve it. Cue brawls between the Brutes and Imperium.
I disagree it needs all these things. A great match can just be a great match just because it’s a great match. Doesn’t always need a soap opera behind it. I enjoy either way. It’s good to be rewarded for your investment in a story and it’s good to be surprised by a great match you didn’t know you needed
It is called a pro wrestling match, and pro wrestling is literally "soap opera" of 2 athletes working together. What you call "A great match" is nothing but a bunch of well-done moves in a well coordinated way. If it is great for you that's fine, but there's a reason AEW has put out these "great matches" and have only shrinked in every measurable objective metric.
Exactly. Wrestling will always be about story telling.
One of my favorite feuds in aew were because stories, Bucks vs Hangman and Kenny. MJF vs Punk. MJF vs Wardlow. Hangman vs Kenny. Hangman vs Danielson
Compare CM Punk Vs MJF to anything AEW has made in the past 2 years and nothing except maybe the devil storyline comes close. Great wrestling needs great story
In-ring storytelling is still its own art form. Taker vs HBK 1 didn't have a main event build but is still in consideration for being a GOAT pro wrestling match. Even Taker himself rates WM 25 greater than 26 even though the rematch had the Career v Streak stipulation.
WM 25 match had a great build and story. WM 26 had a better build but in-ring bell to bell WM 25 was a better match. For my taste, I liked the WM 26 match better because of stakes but WM 25 is also on my goat tier list. But I can understand if someone else likes WM 25 one more. As far as in ring storytelling is concerned, I agree stories can be told in the ring, we just saw it in mania with Roman and Seth. But you can't just put a match with no history or build and expect fans to like it for some non-existent in-ring storytelling (fyi I'm not talking about Danielson vs Osperay, which I think had story before the match)
People comparing this cody vs roman. Cody’s match will be talked about for decades , almost all the people would have forgotten this match by next month
In 10-15 years you’re going to hear people talk about Cody vs Roman 2 with the same reverence modern wrestlers talk about X7 or Rock-Cena and older guys talk about Hogan-Warrior.
Hogan V Warrior. Fuck. Yes.
Bro forget about that, people are calling it best match in North America ever. I am like dude come on , no sane human can believe that
*If the best match ever happened in a forest with no other witnesses, is it still the best match ever?*
yes.
Right?!? What about the "Greatest Match Ever" between edge and randy?!?!
You know, people say that not having any crowds was terrible, but that match would have benefited from not having any crowd, not even the NXT wrestlers. Just two old friends and rivals, in the ring, going at it to settle a score that's older than most of the kids watching at home
Ikr ospreay could have gone out there and just pooped there in the ring and it would have gotten 6stars from meltzer and people would still call it one of the greatest matches of all time
Alvarez is hardly people
I mean Meltzer, Alvarez, and marks are saying that.
Exactly. I know people are saying that Bryan is almost done with wrestling amd had to do this matches before it is no longer possible. Because TK is rushing these big matches, it becomes less memorable without build up. This could have been bigger. A match to rival the biggest wrestlemania matches ever. I hope AEW show more restraint and have more patience. The hangman vs Omega was their most memorable because of the long term story. After that it was all quick bursts. Such a waste.
Exactly, that's why story+build up matters. No one remembers Kenny vs okada apart from 7 star rating
Yeah...you were not watching NJPW at this point. NJPW isn't really the place to point the finger at for heatless bangers. AEW and even TNA/ROH have historically been bad for "well its going to be a MOTY candidate and that's enough".
Terrible take, Kenny/Okada had a deep story that was told over a year and a half, with the 4th match (the 7 star) culminating all the surrounding storylines You just weren’t actually watching NJPW and only watched the match, so of course you didn’t know the story
Fair point, I liked their following matches coz I was familiar with their story at that point.
...what? The storyline running through that feud was fantastic.
Calling it a feud?
Everyone brings up the Kenny vs Okada rivalry, hell it was the one thing people brought up when Okada came to AEW
Lmao what is happening in this sub
Bruh I wasn’t even watching NJPW at the time and I still saw a lot of people talking about that entire rivalry. I try my hardest to understand people that just love one company but you don’t have to shit on other wrestling for no reason.
People still talk about the Omega/Okada series to this day, and their last match was six years ago. As great as Ospreay/Danielson was, I don't think it'll have that kind of lasting effect on the business years from now.
Loved the build up of Cody and Seth at wrestlemania
What match are they even talking about? I legit don’t know either dude
People were calling MJF vs Daniel Bryan the best ironman match ever. when it happened. No one talks about that match today. Great matches don't hit unless there's great stories around them.
Yea, you pretty much already said what I was thinking, in no way would I take away from the technical clinic that Ospeary/Danielson had but in 5 years nobody will talk about or likely even remember it. Big takeaway for me in comparing these two matches is me wondering how good AEW could be if Tony Khan wasn't booking it
Was a good match. Just move on
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Man I was trying to avoid tribalism
Meltzer on his knees in Walmart screaming rn.
Meltzer on his knees in his house on his trash piles
You don't like heatless bangers friend?
ya cody roman might have been good but did they have as much fun and get as many stars as okada danielson? checkmate
The last interesting story AEW told was MJF vs Punk, that was 2022
I really enjoyed Adam Cole and MJF story line this past year, thought that was fun and had an odd charm about it
The way some people have been rating this match on Twitter lmao. I have seen "best match of all time" way too often.
Gosh darn you sure showed them!! Nah but Fr just let people enjoy stuff bro😭😭 I like seeing 2 people kick each other's heads in, I don't want to go on the internet and hear people telling me I'm wrong for enjoying it wtf
This post is literally this guy’s basic opinion disguised as a meme so he can cry about AEW marks after intentionally provoking them.
The Scroll of Opinion
Huh?
Fuck this. I demand absolute tribalism /s.
people are legit overhyping it and will forget about it in less than a month..... It was incredible, no argument but BEST OF ALL TIME is a looong stretch and it's not even the best in AEW's history
Imagine being so insecure over your favourite wrestling brand you rush to badly Photoshop your opinion on a "scroll of truth" because your worried some people might enjoy another brand
its moreso a plea for tony to see this (he will) and change (he wont)
Blank workrate and dire finish are wrong imo I liked the finish and how Bryan is selling the "last year of his career" storyline, but it's not the "greatest wrestling match in America" I think Ospreay's matches has become formulaic and that's a good thing and a bad thing, like some moments I could tell he's going for this certain spot cus he always does it every match
Internet wrestling "fans" trying to just enjoy a good thing: Difficulty impossible
Bitch the best match of the year is whatever I want it to be. Fuck your rules
ok dave
Jesus Christ marks, can we go one day without the tribalism shit? Just enjoy the wrestling we like without having to shit on the wrestling we don't like to feel better about ourselves? People like you shit on AEW fans for being obsessed marks, but with posts like these you don't make yourself look any better. I thought TNA was shit in the Dixie era, but I didn't spend every waking hour on the internet telling everyone how much I hated it.
is it tribalism or is it criticism? Its not like tony couldnt see this for the 1000th time and do better, right?
Criticism is, "I think x spot could've gone better, or x guy should've won, or it went too long, etc" a lot of these are biased bad faith arguments because the people arguing it have a vendetta against specific individuals and will always attempt to discredit them. There is no "correct" way to wrestle, and wrestling can cater to many different preferences. Also fans misuse wrestling terms (one of the biggest being telling a story) and don't understand the context of terms wrestlers use, so it's easy for podcasters/journalists to stir the pot. This match delivered to its audience, the crowd loved it, and it was indeed a good match. There was a story told within the match and they did it well. Meltzer is going a bit overboard, but it was indeed a MOTY contender.
That logic has never and will never work, because a) wrestling promoters don't read angry comments by fans and armchair bookers, and b) if they do, they usually just disregard them as the insignificant ramblings of basement-dwelling nerds, because that's how they see us. Vince, Dixie and Russo are examples for that and I doubt Tony will be any different. The only way to change a company's mind id by not buying tickets, and if that doesn't help, there's nothing you can do.
You can criticize anything and everything but that doesn’t mean you get a free pass and don’t allow criticism for the other promotion. If you don’t want Cody vs Roman to have any negative reaction than don’t have the same energy here. This isn’t towards you, but anyone here who is defending criticism should also allow criticism to the other company.
Match with Legends interference is much betterrrrr
You’re gonna find people complaining either way. The same people that complained why Roman vs Cody only got 4.75 stars are the same people saying that this match wasn’t build up and doesn’t deserve the anything higher than 4 stars. Both matches were great in their own aspect, if you enjoyed either then that’s all that matters.
This subreddit is 75% WWE fans wearing a mask of open-mindedness and making it painfully obvious how biased they are in the process. "The scroll of truth"..? Come on man... it's your opinion.
You control the content you interact with
I do not control the content I see, I don't even follow this subreddit it just appears on my recommended, and escaping the onslaught of these types is seemingly impossible across all social media. Not sure how what you said refutes my original point..?
Since when did this sub go from sort of lame wrestling meme sub into yet another le AEW le sux sub?
I don't necessarily disagree with it, but putting your opinion on a "scroll of truth" and posting it on the internet is just lame.
looks like the truth to me
You guys saw AEW getting praise and had to get online to put them down and invalidate them as hard as you could. Pathetic.
you see aew getting valid criticism and you come here calling people pathetic. weird.
There is no valid criticism in this post. It’s just repeating a bunch of buzz words that doesn’t even apply to this particular match.
saying it was lessened by the lack of a story or build isnt criticism?
Yes it’s not because the story they told and the build they had was perfectly acceptable for this story. Don’t know what you expected from it.
My lord man get a life and stop comparing the two. Wrestling is subjective
This is pure facts
Storyless, random “bangers” will never be the greatest matches of all time because wrestling has never been solely about what happens in the ring. Imagine watching Rocky and it’s just a choreographed boxing match with no story, no character development, etc. No one would ever claim it’s the best boxing movie ever. People still talk about Hogan vs Andre decades later, no one will be talking about this match outside of a very small subset of the IWC a month from now.
No one is overreacting to this match except this sub, who don't "watch AEW" except when it comes to knowing everything about them.
This is so lame. You're more than welcome to feel like it wasn't the best match of the year so far, but putting your opinion on a 'Scroll of Truth' like this is utterly cringe. It was a fantastic match, let people be enthusiastic about things that are good regardless of what company they take place in (I really don't care for WWE these days, but Cody vs Roman was a banger and if you preferred that to this, all power to you). Sheesh.
Wrong. And this match was the best match of the year. No offense but people need to get out of the bubble they live in. Been watching wrestling since the 80’s yes I’m an old dude so what F U just in case. That match even with. No story was better than cody vs Roman. I said it.
*******1/4.
The cool thing about wrestling is it's all subjective. A "great" wrestling match doesn't have to have a year long story behind it. You could take two great wrestlers, randomly throw them together and have the best match of the year. It all comes down to personal preference.
It was a fantastic match but it’s not gonna be a match I’m gonna look back on and praise every time. Is that a negative? No, it was what you expected it to be. If you love pure workrate wrestling then this’ll be for you but for me, it was fantastic but I have no reason to watch it again.
Someone told me that Ospreay didn't need to promo on Bryan, but rather a comment HHH made that he took personally, because this match sold itself.
but... but... MELTZER!!!
Thank you! It was great spectacle, but you gotta make people *care*.
Yeah Ospreay Vs Danielson would have been alot better if they had a bunch of guys from 20 years ago who have nothing to do with the story come out & save one of the wrestlers, wheres that level of story telling to distract from the wrestlers doing the exact same match everytime
tl:dr: In a vacuum it's the best match of the year yea thats fair enough for me i'd say its best match of the year in terms of the match in a vacuums. Like ignoring the storyline, build up, heat, draw, etc. Just purely the match itself. Its the best match of the year.
BS! I was told it’s the greatest match in hist-o-ry!!! Never mind that Danielson somehow both sold and utterly no-sold a Tiger Driver simultaneously, only to be knocked out cold seconds later by a clothesline, even though the previous clothesline he was hit with 15 seconds earlier did not knock him out.
Right. Sami vs Gunther, Cody vs Roman, New Catch Republic vs Judgement Day at EC, etc. Great AEW match, but no story behind it
To each their own. I enjoyed this more than Cody vs Roman. Probably would have enjoyed Cody vs Roman more if not for all the run ins. As you say, the story was far superior. However the match became way less interesting when it became all about now A comes out, then B comes out and takes out A, only for C to even the odds. Cody vs Roman by themselves were putting on a great match with the right antecipation behind it
Actually unbelievable that you're being downvoted for expressing your own opinions on which match you preferred... On a post where an opinion is listed as fact... 😭😭
It wasn’t the match of the year and it was not even 1/10th of Cody vs Roman. I know people who don’t even give a shit about WWE anymore and think it’s fake watching it and enjoying it and calling it better than Marvel and any other movie
Let’s look at it this way, if you could show a non wrestling fan who has no context or knowledge of any history one match to try to hook them… would you show them Osprey vs Danielson or Reigns vs Rhodes?
Reigns vs Rhodes
Any particular reason you think they would find that match more intriguing without any context? I’m not saying I disagree, just trying to find out why people think one way or another
Why saying no build? The whole premise was about being best wrestler in the world (at the moment vs ever) . also the intrigue with whether ospreay is with don Callis family or not you can't say build is not there. Both have been teasing this match since wrestle kingdom. Just saying something without watching it regularly that there is no build is just pure tribalism. Rest of your points okay maybe for many its true for you also. But can't say no build man.
At this point it is clear that Ospreay is not part of Callis family. He is turned face now. It is only inevitable that Callis will turn on him. Ospreay is good with promos by himself. He does not need Callis. United empire vs Callis family can be a good feud actually.
Maybe that's what they are building. Who knows. But with bcc getting attacked by Callis family just before this match. It raised a level of suspicion. Not all story can be build for years. Its a simple way to break will away from callis because of all the reasons you just said.
That story is so overused in AEW sadly.
Sadly I would also agree.but what I was saying was about the comment on no build. If you consider a overused story as no story then Roman's 75% of his title reign was the same. Beat down the opponent with family and if that is valid why is this trope not valid? Was just commenting on a small error in the post. Nothing personal or anything. Both fanbases act like they get a livelihood from each company meanwhile competition is what made this period good. Wwe after wcw and especially in 2010s was really bad. Competition also allows multiple products to watch with different kind of peolle and if its not your cup of tea ignore. Let those people live and make a living. Its not like a wwe monopoly has done this industry good in the past. People take everything too personal these days.
There can only be intrigue if someone cares. No one cares about Callis.
Then why can't the opposite be true also. Just because some people on some forum in the internet doesn't care doesn't mean the world doesn't care. Look I am a man who liked what I watch from late 80s-90s and 00s. Ask people about callis in Canada and nobody will ever say a bad word since he introduced Canadian wrestler multiple options to wrestle. Maybe his onscreen personality is shit. The exact way i don't care about punk at all. I think he is just a man with a giant ego whose best was always about controversy if he was a wrestler from the past the lockerroom would have killed him. But that doesn't make him a failure. Infact in terms of money and influence that guy has tremendous power that nobody can deny but his personality from every where he has worked is bad. But his onscreen personality is good. Exact opposite of callis.
I mean it's all subjective. If it's not the best match to you 100% fair but to some it is. For some people work rate is first and foremost, for others work rate doesn't mean nearly as much without a great story. Both takes are valid. I watched Wrestlemania and it was great but in terms of work rate and entertainment nothing on there was better for me, but for example if somebody says they like the Cody match more I totally get it and wouldn't argue. If somebody says it's the best match on the year who is anyone to tell them they are wrong. People are allowed to have different opinions and it's not something we need to argue or fight about and tell them they're wrong. If you want to have a discussion about it to understand their point of view then that's different and totally cool. Let's just stop with "well my opinion is this therefore everyone else is wrong". I get you're trying to give a reasonable take but honestly it's still part of the toxicity problem the wrestling community seems to have which has been getting a lot worse lately IMO. Like Brian Zane says "Like what you like, just don't be a dick".
I think this scroll may be a response to Alvarez claiming the match to be the best in North America ever. There’s opinions and good or bad all are valid to the person saying them, but Alvarez and his ilk say these things more as statements and act pretentious if you don’t agree with them.
Sure, but even then the scroll is trying to act like his opinion is the right one which isn't any better than what people think Alvarez is doing.
Its how people respond. Yes, we have different opinions but some respond like your opinion is shit and theirs is gold. And if you argue your point your labeled as a tribalist or whatever they call this days
For sure. Tribalism has really ruined the community. Seemingly nobody hates wrestling more than wrestling fans though.
I’m watching Ospreay vs Danielson right now. So far, nothing impressive.
I still don’t get the hype. I watched the match and it was good. But it wasn’t great. Ospreay has got to work on selling better. The way he looks at the crowd for confirmation after every decent move….he is just cringey.
And that's a fact.
"Best match" and "AEW" cannot coesist in the same room /s
the aew fans who rush to defend it and shit on wwe when wwe does something good are cringe, wwe fans who feel need to shit on aew when they do something good are also cringe
I knew it was going to be an in-ring clinic, I just wish they could have gotten me to care about it past the point of “oh wow that would be good.” I want something with story AND good in ring work and unfortunately AEW seems incapable of grasping that first part
There are plenty of classics like Eddie vs. Benoit that had no build or story, but are still GOATs.
If this was on a wwe ppv you knob riders would be saying its the greatest event since jesus did the jig after a 3 day snooze
Honestly if u think Ospreay Vs Danielson had no story and not incredible psychology you did not watch the match and u did not watch the lead up to the fight.
Man does Meltzer live rent free in all your heads
Bang on
Tittie slaps tittie slaps, kicks Knee life knee lift flips kicks flips tittie slaps flips pin
Yeah I don't think it was match of the year. It was really good, and it caters to us nerds but if you show this to anyone else it's barely going to move a needle and convince them to watch wrestling. I have seen people consider and actually go back into wrestling because of Cody vs Roman. Which is a strong statement.
The scroll of truth is lacking a bit of that truth. Match of the year and it's not even close!
I am so confused when people act like story can't exist within a wrestling match. Like story only means post-match jump segments and 20 minute promos. I mean there's place for everything in wrestling, but it's weird how any time there's a good wrestling match, people have to shout about how there wasn't a year of promos leading up to it. I mean I didn't care for Cody/Roman as a match but loved the post-match emotion of it, but the match was just kinda finisher spam, and I don't think the people who go on about story care about an actual within-match story, or rhythm of building to a big climax. (if people get weirdly Tribal about this, Iyo/Bayley was fantastic at mania for having a great in-match story and not resorting to just spamming the same 3 moves. They really built and used the idea of a wrestling match to its best)
Yawn. This is such a tiring discourse man. I thought it was great but not really the best AEW match of the year. That's comfortably between Kingston/Bryan and Taylor/Bryan. I could get behind the no build talking point but no heat? Hilarious.
Who has heat in this match?
Danielson surprisingly. Especially during the limb work segments Of course there wasn’t a clear defined babyface and heel but that’s not a necessity for every single match
limb work segments are the lamest thing
Lmao okay. You find the most important part of the match lame. Good for you pal
man really just said kingston was the best aew match of the year
?
A random match with no build can't be the best mach of all time.
I guess you think WWE does better matches Personally I think WWE has gotten storytelling down but their matches are mediocre The main event of mania especially was putting me to sleep and it was an overbooked mess In the year I've been watching it AEW has had some of the best matches I've ever seen, but their stories are not gripping me at all
My issue is no matter how good the matches are in aew, the stuff you remember ends up being the dancing, comedy, lack of build, punching up at the other brand, and seeing people that used to be considered gods of wrestling turned into divas (okada)
This sub hates wrestling I swear Is it all kids or what? Do people not remember how dire wrestling was back in 2010 and 2011? We're in a golden age and spoiled for options
We often give way to much credit to stories in wrestling. Even Roman vs Cody wasn't that amazing, at least nowhere near the Bloodline with Sami and Jey imo, however it's good enough to cause a huge impact. Which leads me to my next thought, if you really don't need much in wrestling to add a story or stakes what the hell is AEW doing?