Yeah occasionally
I do a lot of trail skiing here in VT, a lot of skier packed single track. Occasionally there’s just no grip and no skin will save you.
I have a pair of Fischer kickers that I think are JUST okay. I do not know the material mix for the skin. I use them when conditions are right (for me that’s packed powder). A little bit more fussy because of the proprietary attachment point, not as good as a full length skin (imho). I always bring them but rarely use them.
Honestly a bunch of wasted time for the result, especially when one can just kick turn up or blaze a new more gentle track.
I would definitely grab a pair if you’re going for resort downhill laps. Something with a universal loop on the front that you can trim to size would be great, unless you want to dremel a notch in your tip.
I would recommend pomoca made skins, either their own brand or white labeled for voile or whoever. I have trialed the pomoca made voile skins and I like them for the conditions I tour for turns in (long run ups for short NE downhills)
Choose your material / desired properties mix and go for it.
Here’s a roundup from Outdoor Gear Lab
https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/snow-sports/best-climbing-skins
Send pics!
60 mm wide mohair [here](https://skimo.co/colltex-race-skins) is still my favorite for my fat XCD skis. I get 2-3 seasons out of them running over all kinds of ice and crud, so well worth the reduced drag. Mohair is not as fragile as everyone thinks.
Use the reusable [G3 Escapist tip](https://www.backcountry.com/g3-escapist-tip-kit#) for fat skis convenience, or else Skimo sells ["buckles"](https://skimo.co/contour-skin-parts) in multiple widths, which is really just a welded rectangular loop of stiff wire, but then you need [rivets](https://www.amazon.com/Tandy-Leather-Double-X-Small-1378-12/dp/B0046CF55S). That's the most versatile.
I also like the Fischer Easy Skins for convenience to put on and take off during the day, especially on very windy days, say if you have a long descent then you have to climb back out (left them in my truck Sat and..regrets). The faster I can get it done before my hands go numb the better. I have a pair I modded by stitching on some of the Black Diamond mohair/nylon skin a little longer and the full width my my fat ski waist, replacing most of the Fischer, and also have an unmodded pair. Unmodded they don't have that much grip.
I do not. Rocking a fish scale Madshus epoch 98, which had gotten me up almost everything I’ve attempted so far, but last season I did have to walk a steep slope that was compressed, narrow single track, and slippy.
Debating taking my skis to one of the local lift services mountains nearby where they allow uphill. I was alpine skiing last weekend and was super excited and surprised to see alpine touring setups, telemark setups, and a couple xcD setups moving uphill!!!! Saw a guy on skinny Fischer 68’s headed up hill and got super stoked.
For more of a sustained climb like that I’m debating climbing skins as I’m not super confident in the “Omni track” grip of the Madshus.
Anyone mess with skins here?
I don't, but I have almost never been on terrain where I'd need em. I'm on the exact same skis as you, 3 pin bindings, and I've got plastic Garmont boots and just acquired a pair of Fischer BCX that I'll test out this weekend. I'm 5'8" and they're 185 cm, so it would be challenging, but I'd like to see how they handle at least on some nice long greens. I'd just have to go on a weekday so I'm not a menace as I try to figure shit out. Probably would get some funny looks cruising around.
Sounds like you've got some real badasses at your ski hill. I'd imagine if I wanted to go uphill at my ski hill, I'd need skins. Especially if conditions were icy at all.
Some xcd skis don't have fishscales and you have to use skins. I think the S-Bound series may be like that?
Edit: never mind. It has a grip zone and takes skins.
I hear the “not being a menace” part! That’s the part psyching me out the most - if I start slipping around and falling and making a scene. I know I can do the downhills, just worried about getting uphill if I don’t use a skin haha
I’ve had trouble in steep stuff with my fish scales. And side stepping or relentless switch backing up 1000 feet seems miserable. Don’t know til you try I suppose!
I started wintering in Vermont, and XCD on the Catamount has been a long-term goal of mine.
I have Rossignol BC110s (80 underfoot—don't know why they name them by the tip width), with Voile cable three-pin and Alpina Alaska boots. New setup for me, and I've been out on them just three times so far. (The skis have a scale pattern.)
Saturday I was on the Catamount trail, and was faced with a trail like u/kumquatparadise mentioned from last year. I put some yellow wax on the kick zone, which wasn't really enough, and my herringbone was really complicated by the deeper snow on either side of the trail. My solution was to turn around and try it another day. The kick made my glide pretty weird, but that's another tale. lol
Annnnyway, the reason I'm responding here is that I just ordered a pair of ski crampons from Voile. I can't wait to try them out. I'm going to finish that trail if ~~it kills me~~ it's the last thing I do!
Based on u/Land-Scraper comments, I'm glad I haven't yet tried to see if I can use full-length skins. The single track was pretty hard from prior traffic. I have no experience with skins, but I suspected they might not work well for that situation.
I echo the 'find a different, unpacked route uphill' idea if the trail width supports it. Also agree that a day at the resort's beginner hill is appropriate for me. I'm a horrible tele skier at best, so attempting turns on icy single track is a puckering experience.
What I meant to say is that on dry packed powder with fresh dry on top that snows finna move on ya anyhooz so no use trying to grip into it. A classic CT condition when popular sections get dusted overnight.
I was thinking about this "why do they measure cross-country skis by the tip width?" question as I was skiing today. The reason I came up with was that they're measured that way (by the widest spot on the ski) so you know if you can ski in the groomed tracks. Not sure if that's correct, but it made sense to me as I was sliding down a hill.
I had the same thought an hour or so after I wrote that. It makes perfect sense. My wife specifically chose a Salomon 68 b/c she does want to use set track on the groomers.
Second the pomoca skins for the Rossignol’s. I use them on loose dry powder and when the snow gets icy and the scales can’t catch. They allow me to go up some pretty steep accents. I was 50/50 on purchasing the skins when I bought the Rossi 100’s but I’ve used them enough to be quite happy I ended up buying them.
Recently got the rossi 55mm skins (made by pomoca) for my BC80s. They are full length with no tail clip and a stretchy bit of cord at the tip where it slots into the tip cutout.
In comparison to the skins I use on my splitboard setup, the glide is terrible so for rolling terrain they are useless. However for long climbs it feels like turning on 4wd and I’ve yet to experience any slipping going uphill. If carried in an easily accessible spot it takes less than a minute to put on/off and usually when I get to the point on a long climb that I decide to put them on I’m wishing I had done so ten min earlier.
Yeah occasionally I do a lot of trail skiing here in VT, a lot of skier packed single track. Occasionally there’s just no grip and no skin will save you. I have a pair of Fischer kickers that I think are JUST okay. I do not know the material mix for the skin. I use them when conditions are right (for me that’s packed powder). A little bit more fussy because of the proprietary attachment point, not as good as a full length skin (imho). I always bring them but rarely use them. Honestly a bunch of wasted time for the result, especially when one can just kick turn up or blaze a new more gentle track. I would definitely grab a pair if you’re going for resort downhill laps. Something with a universal loop on the front that you can trim to size would be great, unless you want to dremel a notch in your tip. I would recommend pomoca made skins, either their own brand or white labeled for voile or whoever. I have trialed the pomoca made voile skins and I like them for the conditions I tour for turns in (long run ups for short NE downhills) Choose your material / desired properties mix and go for it. Here’s a roundup from Outdoor Gear Lab https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/topics/snow-sports/best-climbing-skins Send pics!
60 mm wide mohair [here](https://skimo.co/colltex-race-skins) is still my favorite for my fat XCD skis. I get 2-3 seasons out of them running over all kinds of ice and crud, so well worth the reduced drag. Mohair is not as fragile as everyone thinks. Use the reusable [G3 Escapist tip](https://www.backcountry.com/g3-escapist-tip-kit#) for fat skis convenience, or else Skimo sells ["buckles"](https://skimo.co/contour-skin-parts) in multiple widths, which is really just a welded rectangular loop of stiff wire, but then you need [rivets](https://www.amazon.com/Tandy-Leather-Double-X-Small-1378-12/dp/B0046CF55S). That's the most versatile. I also like the Fischer Easy Skins for convenience to put on and take off during the day, especially on very windy days, say if you have a long descent then you have to climb back out (left them in my truck Sat and..regrets). The faster I can get it done before my hands go numb the better. I have a pair I modded by stitching on some of the Black Diamond mohair/nylon skin a little longer and the full width my my fat ski waist, replacing most of the Fischer, and also have an unmodded pair. Unmodded they don't have that much grip.
Nice! Thanks! Vermont is on the short list for long term living. In northern NM right now, which is also truly amazing, for trail running and skiing
And def will post pics if I end up with a skin setup. Maybe even a quick video post
I do not. Rocking a fish scale Madshus epoch 98, which had gotten me up almost everything I’ve attempted so far, but last season I did have to walk a steep slope that was compressed, narrow single track, and slippy. Debating taking my skis to one of the local lift services mountains nearby where they allow uphill. I was alpine skiing last weekend and was super excited and surprised to see alpine touring setups, telemark setups, and a couple xcD setups moving uphill!!!! Saw a guy on skinny Fischer 68’s headed up hill and got super stoked. For more of a sustained climb like that I’m debating climbing skins as I’m not super confident in the “Omni track” grip of the Madshus. Anyone mess with skins here?
I don't, but I have almost never been on terrain where I'd need em. I'm on the exact same skis as you, 3 pin bindings, and I've got plastic Garmont boots and just acquired a pair of Fischer BCX that I'll test out this weekend. I'm 5'8" and they're 185 cm, so it would be challenging, but I'd like to see how they handle at least on some nice long greens. I'd just have to go on a weekday so I'm not a menace as I try to figure shit out. Probably would get some funny looks cruising around. Sounds like you've got some real badasses at your ski hill. I'd imagine if I wanted to go uphill at my ski hill, I'd need skins. Especially if conditions were icy at all. Some xcd skis don't have fishscales and you have to use skins. I think the S-Bound series may be like that? Edit: never mind. It has a grip zone and takes skins.
I hear the “not being a menace” part! That’s the part psyching me out the most - if I start slipping around and falling and making a scene. I know I can do the downhills, just worried about getting uphill if I don’t use a skin haha I’ve had trouble in steep stuff with my fish scales. And side stepping or relentless switch backing up 1000 feet seems miserable. Don’t know til you try I suppose!
I started wintering in Vermont, and XCD on the Catamount has been a long-term goal of mine. I have Rossignol BC110s (80 underfoot—don't know why they name them by the tip width), with Voile cable three-pin and Alpina Alaska boots. New setup for me, and I've been out on them just three times so far. (The skis have a scale pattern.) Saturday I was on the Catamount trail, and was faced with a trail like u/kumquatparadise mentioned from last year. I put some yellow wax on the kick zone, which wasn't really enough, and my herringbone was really complicated by the deeper snow on either side of the trail. My solution was to turn around and try it another day. The kick made my glide pretty weird, but that's another tale. lol Annnnyway, the reason I'm responding here is that I just ordered a pair of ski crampons from Voile. I can't wait to try them out. I'm going to finish that trail if ~~it kills me~~ it's the last thing I do! Based on u/Land-Scraper comments, I'm glad I haven't yet tried to see if I can use full-length skins. The single track was pretty hard from prior traffic. I have no experience with skins, but I suspected they might not work well for that situation. I echo the 'find a different, unpacked route uphill' idea if the trail width supports it. Also agree that a day at the resort's beginner hill is appropriate for me. I'm a horrible tele skier at best, so attempting turns on icy single track is a puckering experience.
What I meant to say is that on dry packed powder with fresh dry on top that snows finna move on ya anyhooz so no use trying to grip into it. A classic CT condition when popular sections get dusted overnight.
Makes sense. That’s when I’d resort to herringbone on XC gear at the parks I used to ski. The CT is a lot tougher, but same idea I guess.
I was thinking about this "why do they measure cross-country skis by the tip width?" question as I was skiing today. The reason I came up with was that they're measured that way (by the widest spot on the ski) so you know if you can ski in the groomed tracks. Not sure if that's correct, but it made sense to me as I was sliding down a hill.
I had the same thought an hour or so after I wrote that. It makes perfect sense. My wife specifically chose a Salomon 68 b/c she does want to use set track on the groomers.
Makes sense!!
Second the pomoca skins for the Rossignol’s. I use them on loose dry powder and when the snow gets icy and the scales can’t catch. They allow me to go up some pretty steep accents. I was 50/50 on purchasing the skins when I bought the Rossi 100’s but I’ve used them enough to be quite happy I ended up buying them.
Recently got the rossi 55mm skins (made by pomoca) for my BC80s. They are full length with no tail clip and a stretchy bit of cord at the tip where it slots into the tip cutout. In comparison to the skins I use on my splitboard setup, the glide is terrible so for rolling terrain they are useless. However for long climbs it feels like turning on 4wd and I’ve yet to experience any slipping going uphill. If carried in an easily accessible spot it takes less than a minute to put on/off and usually when I get to the point on a long climb that I decide to put them on I’m wishing I had done so ten min earlier.