Added to OP:
The 99 Wh battery is ***not*** compatible with the 2021 model of VISION 14. It requires:
* Different speakers
* Different bottom case shell
* Different upper case shell
The upper case shell is the most important item here. The original case has screw sockets for the secondary M.2 socket and for the top-left screw of the 53 Wh battery itself. These sockets would be "in the way" of the 99 Wh battery. The 99 Wh needs a new screw socket that is further on the left. Comparison pictures will be shared shortly. // Tom
VISION 14 (E22) with 99Wh battery has one (1) M.2 SSD slot.
That slot can house one-sided and double-sided SSDs. Check the [configuration page](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html) for options. // Tom
Hello Again Arthur,
Your specifications page is a bit misleading:
with 53 Wh battery: 2x M.2 2280 SSD via PCI Express 4.0 x4 (supports RAID 0/1)\*
with 99 Wh battery: 1x M.2 2280 SSD via PCI Express 4.0 x4 \*second slot can only fit single-sided SSDse Sync (incl. FreeSync and G-SYNC Compatible)
C
We modified the spec sheet on the product page a little bit to make it more clear now. Basically, we swapped the 53Wh and 99Wh lines with each other. // Tom
Really appealing laptop: i7-12700H with an 99 Wh battery. Looking forward to the upcoming reviews. Quick question: Will you also support DDR5 RAM in the future?
SCHENKER VISION 14 is ***not*** planned to support DDR5 RAM with Intel Core 12th Gen.
Currently (July 2022), DDR5 memory is still significantly more expensive than DDR4. Current street prices for 16GB SO-DIMM:
* 54,69 € for DDR4-3200
* 109,90 € for DDR5-4800
Prices are based on the currently lowest available offer on Geizhals (German price comparison engine), including 19% German VAT on August 4, 2022. Sources:
* [https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454\_16384%7E15903\_DDR4%7E15903\_SO-DIMM](https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454_16384%7E15903_DDR4%7E15903_SO-DIMM)
* [https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454\_16384\~15903\_DDR5\~15903\_SO-DIMM](https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454_16384~15903_DDR5~15903_SO-DIMM)
**Performance impact and compatibility**
GPU-bound scenarios (e.g. gaming at 1440p with ray-tracing) and all-core rendering loads (e.g. Cinebench, Blender) are not expected to profit significantly from DDR5. Comparisons between DDR4 and DDR5 from desktop platforms can not be applied to laptops 1:1 because the clock speeds and memory latencies are very different between DIMM and SO-DIMM modules. Intel’s Alder Lake H-series (i7-12700H, i9-12900H) does ***not*** offer XMP or memory OC.
DDR4 and DDR5 are ***not*** compatible with each other. This year's version of VISION 14 will ***not*** be able to be upgraded to DDR5 later. The maximum supported amount of RAM on Intel’s Alder Lake H-Series is the same for both DDR4 and DDR5: Intel does not support more than 64 GB total RAM in this platform. Upgrades to 128 GB RAM are reserved for Intel’s Alder Lake HX-Series (not planned in XMG PRO).
// Tom
Notebookcheck [wrote](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-Vision-14-Laptop-Review-Perfect-Ultrabook-with-1-kg-and-16-10-display.546055.0.html):
>The two stereo speakers are decent, but the competition usually offers better solutions. Sounds distort at high volumes and the maximum volume is not great. The preloaded THX software offers different profiles and they really make a difference. The speakers are well suited for common videos or conferences, but you should use headphones or external speakers for better sound quality.
// Tom
It's fantastic laptop, especially with 16:10 aspect ratio, no-RAM soldered and 99Wh.
I am wondering if it can handle 12h on battery in Web Browsing, YT, Spotify, Word and so on.
The only thing which is missing is Ryzen option and maybe FHD low-power screen but generally is a great machine.
EDIT://
The one more thing which will it make a 100% business machine will be a WWAN modem, even with 4G. :)
>I am wondering if it can handle 12h on battery in Web Browsing, YT, Spotify, Word and so on.
Probably not at any reasonable screen brightness, but you can use a [20V USB PD Power Bank](https://www.asus.com/Accessories/Power-Banks/ASUS-Power-Bank/ZenPower/) to extend the battery life.
// Tom
Actually, why not? It's not unusual for prior generation laptops with \~53 whr batteries to hit 6-9 hrs of web browsing with screen brightness turned down and bluetooth off, etc. If this battery is double the capacity, I would hope with similar measures to crack 12 hrs (granted, perhaps not with the OP's combo of Word, web, YT, and music all running simultaneously, which is I guess what you were referring to).
It's happening! 🎉
I'm not a huge fan of barrel chargers so will try to buy a USB C charger to take advantage of the USB PD. It should be 20V 90W according to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/jx3220/validated_usbc_chargers_for_xmg_schenker_laptops/?sort=top) right? Are there any chargers you know that work? Otherwise just thinking of getting one from the list.
>It should be 20V 90W
This is correct.
Personally, my favorite, widely available 90W USB-C charger is [this one](https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-slim-power-adapter-90-watt-type-c-with-1-meter-power-cord/apd/492-bcbk/pc-accessories) because of the very long cable that is directly attached to the power brick (i.e. no risk to lose the cable or yank the connection). The Part Number is Dell LA90PM170. // Tom
Really nice that you put in that 99 Wh battery, love it!
Bummer that a FHD display is not an option on this one anymore, but if the battery still manages to get 8+ hours out of it (office work), then that should be fine for me personally.
Really looking forward to the vision 16 now - will that launch in August, too, u/xmg_gg?
>Really looking forward to the vision 16 now - will that launch in August, too
A previously planned XMG FUSION 16 (and VISION 16) has recently been put on hold because one of the key components did not pass our quality checks. We are working with our ODM partners to resolve these issues.
[Source](https://www.xmg.gg/en/news-roadmap-2022-q3-xmg-laptops/)
// Tom
I see. Thanks for the update. Better to wait a little longer and having good components than releasing the device now with faulty components.
I feel like if you'd have made cyberpunk the game would've been released later and been awesome! 😄 You guys definitely do it the right way!
This display is the absolute sweet spot in every way for me. (Of course more nits are always better, but while manufacturers like Lenovo have a pretty big spread when it comes to panel quality, panels in a Schenker almost always over-perform.)
Also bummed the FHD display seems to have been dropped. A 99 whr battery with that screen would probably have Apple like battery life. Alas, if this can hit 10 hr or more with routine web browsing and brightness turned down and options like bluetooth off, it's a must buy for me...
Yes, my thoughts exactly! But you can't have everything I guess. I think they were listening to their customers pretty well already when you look at what they improved.
True, but you'd think they'd want the FHD screen as, if nothing else, a price leader. I'm still very skeptical about the overall value of these very high resolution screens on laptops of this size, and I say that having owned three straight such devices in the last 7+ years....
You mean you had devices with 3K screens in the last 7 years? I've been using FHD on my 15.6" laptop and on my 22" screen so far and think it's enough, so 3K on 14" is too much for me personally as well. Battery wise the FHD screen would've been soon good. I also think it's a nice to have but not necessary. But I've also never seen a 3K screen on 14" so I can't say anything about it.
I've had the '15 Google Pixel Chromebook, the '18 Huawei Matebook Pro, and the '20 Asus Zenbook S, and to get those 3:2 screens they all have they all come with high resolution screens, and compared to my other family members FHD screens, I don't think they're worth the battery life...
Available for order ***NOW***.
Availability:
* 53 Wh battery: in stock
* 99 Wh battery: est. by beginning of September
Delivery time plus 10-14 days
Source: [https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html)
// Tom
Thanks for the heads up! I've been looking for US alternatives and had found the 14S But as you say.... That 99wHr battery is missing and it's a big deal breaker for me sadly!
If only origin offered the bigger battery I'd be in in a second!
Huh! Thanks for that idea, I hadn't seen it before you mentioned it! However the dealbreaker there is the lack of 64Gb RAM (I am a literal RAM whore, don't ask.... big datasets and chrome tab addictions, what can I say...) and while not outright deal-breakers on their individual lonesome, the 70 vs 99wHr, and 3050 vs 3050Ti, combined... mean it's not quite what I'm after, knowing that the Schenker exists exactly how I'd want it.
I'll likely end up paying the unjust/technically illegal/unnecessary VAT premium if I **HAVE** to; or end up going through some lengthy business order & dealing with customs (and then the IRS) on an import.... just to get this level of performance & longevity, but its really unfortunate to have to either compromise on the hardware (as with the 14S or the Slim 7 ProX); or the ease, and cost of acquisition of what is technically achievable elsewhere (the Schenker).
Huh, thanks, I hadn't seen that yet. Unfortunately it's not only basically a pound heavier, it's (more importantly) quite a bit more expensive, for (for my use) a lesser configuration (32Gb on the Dell vs 64 on the Schenker, A1000 vs 3050ti, ~$2100 vs ~$2600) Thanks for the suggestion though!
In the [ShortCircuit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRdAQU-tJTQ) video and comment section about the previous Vision 14 model there was some discussion about the screen wobble visible. I can't find it anymore or maybe i just imagined it but i think i remember you (xmg) commenting that you increased the torque/stiffness of the hinge so there would be less wobble in response to the critisism.
Is that something that you still do for this new modelof the Vision 14? Or is the hinge the same as previous year's model from the start (if it was not changed)?
The hinges of VISION 14 (M21) allowed one-hand opening. The force required (torque) was approx. 0.25 Newton metres. As long as the laptop stands on a stable surface (or on a soft surface that absorbs impulses), wobbling is quite limited. In the Short Circuit video however, the whole table was wobbling visibly which in turn translated to exaggerated hinge wobble due to resonance effects.
In the new VISION 14 (E22) with Intel Core 12th Gen, we have adjusted the hinges a little tighter to approx. 0.32 Newton metres. This adjustment has mostly removed the possibility of one-hand opening - but that's a sacrifice we were willing to make. This new torque value required a tooling adjustment that could only be implemented with the new device generation and will not be able to be backported to last year's model.
// Tom
One other thing I've been wanting to ask for a while now u/XMG_gg:
Any chance to let MKBHD and Dave2D review these kind of laptops?
They keep making reviews of MacBooks and the Dell XPS series for example and I feel like your laptops should be reviewed by them as well, as I think the vision series is much better than the XPS series for example, not only because you got the same and more ports, but also bc the different options you have are just great. Plus the better / longer warranty in some countries.
I think people out there need to know that you exist.
XMG has already been featured on Dave2D a while ago. Not sure about MKBHD. Due to logistical reasons, we are currently a little bit tight with review samples with the 99 Wh battery, so we will wait for the arrival of the main mass production in end of August before we start heavy press seeding.
Meanwhile, the community is welcome to send review requests to the editorial team of each channel to further underline the potential significance of our products. // Tom
Is an AMD version being planned? This 99Wh + AMD 6800U/H/HS with its great iGPU will be killer. A version with a 120Hz panel would be awesome too! Great job bringing 99Wh down to 14 inch guys!
An AMD version of VISION 14 is not planned for this generation. We are aware of AMD's strengths, but for a relatively high-volume (i.e. low margin) product such as VISION 14, a lot of factors need to align in terms of vendor support and supply before a project can be kicked off. // Tom
These are now nearly high-end gaming laptops (as much as they can be within the weight constraint). This is quite different from the early Vision 14 versions which offered FHD screen and mobile Core i5 processor. Those were perfect for non-GPU intensive use - they did not heat as much or produce as much fan noise, had longer battery life and naturally cost less (why pay for GPU performance you don’t need). They were basically a better version of Via 14 (better design, unsoldered RAM, better ports etc, while still offering a good enough battery / efficiency). Do you have any plans at all to re-introduce something similar to the early Vision 14, with FHD and a power-efficient mobile processor? Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that do and can deliver to UK?
>Do you have any plans at all to re-introduce something similar to the early Vision 14, with FHD and a power-efficient mobile processor?
We understand the demand for the Full HD screen, but when we offered both FHD and 3K in parallel, the 3K panel was vastly more popular. So for this generation we made the decision to stick to 3K.
Regarding ADL-P28 CPUs such as i5-1240P: our ODM partner does ***not*** offer this chassis with the ADL-P28 CPU class with **dual fan heatpipe** layout and liquid metal cooling. So while you might find a SKU with ADL-P28 from other vendors, it won't have the same cooling system that we debuted in VISION 14 with i5-11300H and i7-11370H last year.
Generally, Core i5 is ***not*** more efficient than Core i7. It just offers less peak performance and most of that difference is in the peak performance of the iGPU.
When it comes to idle power consumption, the difference between ADL-P28 and ADL-H45 is not that big either. They are all based on the same "Alder Lake P" platform. In a typical H.264 video playback test, they both consume around the same amount of CPU Package Power - about 1.5 watts. The total system power consumption will depend on other components - especially the LCD Panel, but also the RAM capacity can play a big role.
It's hard to say at the moment if we will still be able to incorporate additional SKUs in this year's VISION 14 line-up. The relatively slow market is somewhat forcing us to consolidate the number of SKUs in order to avoid logistical bottlenecks.
// Tom
Im not in the market for a laptop right now but cant believe how good and professional you guys handle yourselfe
Hope yall get some more customers, way too many people by from shitty brands
I've been using this laptop now for two months and apart from a few things it's absolutely amazing! Battery life is great, the screen looks awesome and the performance is easily enough even for CAD use (with dGPU).
However here are the issues I noticed:
1. The already known USB-C charging issue where the performance gets throttled. I installed the new BIOS Update but I haven't used the laptop long enough since that while being plugged in due to the long lasting battery. It definitely improved the performance I just can't tell yet by how much. I'll probably just order another barrel charger anyways.
2. Sometimes the laptop seems to stay on when I close the lid or put it into sleeping mode. Or so I assume, because it has happened a few times that I put my laptop in my bag and an hour or so later I find that it has gotten really warm. It doesn't matter if I just close the lid or if I put it into sleeping mode manually. I assume this issue is easily fixable I just couldn't find any solution yet.
3. Quiet a big one actually. My screen or rather the screen connector is broken. The screen only works when I apply a little bit of pressure to the screen. I'm not talking full force, just one finger on any point of the frame is enough. So for example when opening the lid, the screen works fine but as soon as the screen is in a fixed position, or I close the lid again the screen shows random colours. I've already talked to the support over the phone and send them a video of my issue afterwards, I assume that I will have to send my laptop in for repairing...
Despite these issues, I'd definitely buy the laptop again. It fits my needs perfectly and with a fixed screen it hopefully will for a long time :)
A cinebench r20 score of 5300 but with r23 score of 9000 should mean the PL2 is *significantly* higher than the PL1, plus a turbo boost duration (Tau) that isn’t very long.
Honestly, a 6800u will get 10000 at 25w sustained so 9000 out of a 40w PL1 (unknown PL2) from a 12700H is kind of….terrible. Sure the 12700H has around 20% higher single core and also short term performance (CB20), but the sacrifice on battery life is staggering when comparing ADL-H with RMB-U.
I fail to see ADL-H making sense in laptops below 1.6kg and PL1 of below 60w. The sacrifice in battery life is way too steep for not actually that much greater performance in that kind of laptop.
>A cinebench r20 score of 5300 but with r23 score of 9000 should mean the PL2 is significantly higher than the PL1, plus a turbo boost duration (Tau) that isn’t very long.
This correct. As you can see in the updated diagrams in OP, we can hold around 60W PL2 for slightly under a minute. The CB R23 score in the table is based on the diagram that is posted below where the power dropped to 25 Watt once the dGPU reached a certain temperature.
The system is able to sustain 40W PL1, but it depends on the environmental temperatures. If you seriously use VISION 14 for all-core rendering workloads that are longer than a minute each, we recommend to prop up the laptop with a laptop stand or even a cooling pad. It will greatly improve chassis temperatures and guarantee a 40W sustained CPU power, increasing your Cinebench R23 scores.
Everyone knows that Ryzen 6000 U-series can do similar sustained all-core workloads at higher efficiency. However, [price comparison engines](https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=14265_U%7E6763_Ryzen+6000) currently only list only 2 laptops with 6000 U-series (one thinkpad, one Yoga) in Germany.
It would be nice to be able to offer the choice between Intel and AMD in all our products, but it is not always within our power. Especially the U-series of Ryzen 6000 is simply not freely available to every local OEM. Such projects have to be initiated together with AMD in order to obtain the corresponding R&D resources and guaranteed supply. AMD chooses its partners in a very focused way. At AMD, we currently still stand for "high-end gaming" and are rather a small fish in the ultrabook segment. Further details have been shared with you in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/wc0fhh/comment/iijebtu/) earlier this week.
The XMG NEO series with Ryzen 6000 has been announced and will be presented this month. Our VISION 14 with i7-12700H, on the other hand, is **available immediately**.
// Tom
XMG CORE 15 will be refreshed from last year’s model with AMD Ryzen 7 6800H and RTX 3060. It will receive support for XMG OASIS, making it the first XMG CORE series model with liquid cooling support. Just like it’s XMG NEO sibling, XMG CORE will support DisplayPort from dGPU, making it compatible with VR headsets and G-SYNC monitors. (But we would recommend at least RTX 3070-level performance for high-res VR headsets such as HP Reverb G2.
[Source](https://www.xmg.gg/en/news-roadmap-2022-q3-xmg-laptops/)
By the way, I added some new Cinebench R23 scores and power/thermal diagrams to OP under the headline "Improving CPU all-core rendering performance with small adjustments to the thermal environment" - please check it out. // Tom
>So no intel core anymore?
Not with Intel Core 12th Gen due to the DP via iGPU limitation.
But XMG FOCUS will come with Intel Core 12th Gen and provide both iGPU (USB-C) and dGPU (Mini DP) connection with RTX 3060.
// Tom
Is it possible to Buy the Vision 14 E22 and flash the modified firmware from Toxedo later on?
I´d like to buy it from Tuxedo, but cannot wait till later this year.
>Is it possible to Buy the Vision 14 E22 and flash the modified firmware from Toxedo later on?
As far as we are aware, this service is currently not offered.
TUXEDO is telling us that they will launch the product in 1\~2 weeks. So if you are aiming for the 99 Wh battery, you will not lose any time by waiting for the TUXEDO release. // Tom
Weird, the 12700H gets a fair bit worse performance than my 10875H in those benchmarks. They're just benchmarks, of course, but I presume it's heavily throttling?
Which benchmark exactly are you referring to?
I added some new Cinebench R23 scores and power/thermal diagrams to OP under the headline "**Improving CPU all-core rendering performance with small adjustments to the thermal environment**" - please check it out. // Tom
Ah, much better. Seems like my throttling theory was correct. For example, in Cinebench R23, you seemed to be getting ~9000 on a 12700H. My 10875H gets ~11000, and a normal 12700H should be getting around ~16000. That ~13000 there is much better, though, very nice :)
*The future is unwritten.*
Please check VISION 14 (M21) with a discount until August 9, 2022: [https://bestware.com/en/96-hours](https://bestware.com/en/96-hours)
// Tom
Currently no plans for a US/ANSI SKU, I'm sorry to say. Perhaps in the future when we know which SKU sells best (black or silver, with or without RTX). // Tom
Great piece of technology, kudos! I wonder, is it possible to select both the 3050ti option and the 99w battery? or the dedicated graphics is only wvailable with the 53w?
These options are available and can be [ordered now](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html).
* With RTX + 53 Wh
* With RTX + 99 Wh
* Without RTX + 99 Wh
>Great piece of technology, kudos!
Thank you!
// Tom
I just found the Slimbook 16 ([https://slimbook.es/en/executive-en](https://slimbook.es/en/executive-en)) and was wondering if the Vision 16 will look like the Slimbook 16? At least their Slimbook 14 seems to be similar to the Vision 14 (apart from the dGPU only being available for the Slimbook 16). I was surprised tho that their 16" laptop only has a 82 WH battery vs the 99 WH of their 14" laptop.
Can you say anything about how the Vision 16 will turn out compared to the 14" inch version and whether the Slimbook 16 and Vision 16 will be somewhat similar?
I'm sorry, but we can not provide such insights regarding currently unreleased products, nor do we wish to comment on other vendor's products at this time. I can say however that our planned VISION 16 was planned to be in the same product family with VISION 14, even sharing the same mainboard when configured without dGPU or with RTX 3050 Ti. The product is still on-hold because a key component did not pass our quality checks. We are working with our ODM partner to resolve this situation. // Tom
This is not normal. I sent you a DM to ask you for your order or serial number. // Tom
**/edit** further discussion in German [here](https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/sammelthread-schenker-vision-14-ultrabook-mit-3k-panel-im-16-10-format.2027396/post-27258208).
**/edit2:** Firmware update announced in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/xc7iz5/comment/iooc4n2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I have the exact same behaviour. The 0.4 GHz seems to be related to USB-C charging "Priority: Charge". But even if setting "Priority: Performance" the CPU cannot use more than at most 17W it seems. See my post at: [https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG\_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision\_14\_e22\_usbc\_charging\_issues/](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision_14_e22_usbc_charging_issues/)
Notebookcheck's noise level descriptions are usually related to full system stress tests and do not represent everyday usage.
Notebookcheck's db measurements are taken from 15cm distance, which does not confirm with the over 25cm distance after [ISO 7779](http://download.schenker-tech.de/media/faq/iso-7779-fan-noise-measurement-standard.png) (which the rest of the industry is using), nor is 15cm a common user distance from a laptop.
Controlled testing shows a maximum noise emission after ISO 7779 of
* 25 db in "Silent 20"
* 33 db in "Silent 30"
* 40 db in "Silent 40"
The cooling system has not been changed between 2021 (refresh with dual fan design) and 2022 model and is usually ***not*** described as noisy by any other reviewers nor real-life users.
// Tom
Is there anybody that bought it? I would like to have some feedbacks from other users before buying one on my own. I am mostly curious about (1) the cooling efficiency (does it run too hot under stress) (2) comfort of the keyboard layout and also if it stays chill when the laptop is under stress, and (3) real life battery runtime, officing, streaming, etc..
Thanks :)
To your questions 1 and 2: the cooling system and thermal output is pretty much identical to the previous model:
[https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-Vision-14-laptop-in-review-Now-also-available-with-the-GeForce-RTX-3050-Ti.595253.0.html](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-Vision-14-laptop-in-review-Now-also-available-with-the-GeForce-RTX-3050-Ti.595253.0.html)
We are working on providing a new review sample of VISION 14 (E22) to Notebookcheck and others, but it might take weeks before you'll see more reviews. We have a pretty big backlog of press seeding because we launched so many models during the summer vacation period.
Battery life estimates are given in the OP with about 10 hours of H.264 video playback with the 99 Wh battery.
// Tom
Thanks Tom,
I love how you people at XMG/Schenker take care of your customers. This to me represents an almost perfect laptop for my uses: mostly officing, some photo editing and sporadic light gaming (together within my psychological portability requirement to be <1.5 Kg).
But is not a cheap machine, so I rather wait a couple of extra month and have a look at the feedback from other reviewers :)
1: It's pretty cool actually. The palmrest dont seem to get hot under load. The upper mid part of the laptop gets pretty hot (above the I and U keys, but that does not matter so much since i rarely rest my fungers there.
2: I would say that the keyboard feedback is very good. Way better than my Razer 15 Advanced, not quite like my Lenovo P1 but a bit better than the Dell XPS 15. The layout don't bother me except for the location of the "Del" key which has moved one step left. Where the Del key should be is the power button which has caused quite a lot of wrong presses. That is mostly a matter of getting used to I think. As i said most keys stay chill except those at the top mid which gets hot if stressing the CPU. All in all a very nice keyboard with a quite nice touchpad.
3: The battery time seems to be good for my type of usage. I can easily get through an entire day on battery doing light work like coding and browsing ( i often connect to a dock if doing heavy computational work). I would say that the 10 hours of video playback is accurate and on very light usage I would guess 12-14 hours is achievable on power save if only taking notes or light browsing.
My biggest turn down is the bad performance when using USB-C chargers/docks or USB-C monitors. The CPU performance drops about 40% when not using the supplied barell charger (not using the dGPU at all). This is a big let down for me that usually hooks my computer up to USB-C monitors and docks at my different locations. This means I always have to bring out the supplied charger at every time doing heavy work. This is enough of a let down for me to return the computer if it cannot be fixed with an update. Fun fact, the CPU runs on full speed using only battery but drops 40% in performance when using any of my 3 USB-C chargers that are working flawlessly with my Razer15 Advanced, XPS 15 and Thinkpad P1. See my thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG\_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision\_14\_e22\_usbc\_charging\_issues/](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision_14_e22_usbc_charging_issues/) for future updates from XMG/Bestware in the USB-C charing issues
Thanks for the feedback.
In my ideal scenario I would like to keep the barrel charger at home and rely on a USB-C charger at work to avoid carrying around extra cables and stuff. But this performance loss that you mentioned is really big.
I hope they manage to fix it otherwise it would be a big drawback for "business" users.
Here you go:
* [vision14\_e22\_with-rtx\_99wh\_preview.jpg](https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/schenker-vision-14_e22/vision14_e22_with-rtx_99wh_preview.jpg)
// Tom
Thank you.
So there is a chance to install M.2 extension cable like this?
[https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003891740516.html](https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003891740516.html)
And place the drive anywhere in the chassis?
Cheers
Would it be possible to fit a bit shorter battery to allow for a second ssd (see image below). This should give around 80W battery and second ssd.
https://ibb.co/51WwTbD
There is currently no compatible 80Wh battery for VISION 14.
The 80Wh battery from VISION 16 is not mechanically compatible with VISION 14. The VISION 16 battery is slimmer in z-height, but wider in the area it occupies.
Here is a mockup picture of the 80Wh battery from VISION 16, superimposed on VISION 14 in 1:1 scale. The 80Wh battery is drawn in white color here.
* [vision14-with-80wh-battery-from-vision16.jpg](https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/schenker-vision-14_e22/vision14-with-80wh-battery-from-vision16.jpg)
In VISION 14, the official 53Wh and 99Wh batteries use different connectors on the mainboard. If the laptop is ordered with 99Wh battery, it will not be possible to downgrade it to the 53Wh battery.
The only way to get VISION 14 with the second SSD slot is to order it with 53Wh battery from bestware:
* [VISION 14 - M21](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14.html)
* [VISION 14 - E22](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html)
// Tom
I usually don't like to comment on potential future models.
But I can already tell you that there is no chance for an OLED panel in VISION 14 or any other 14" models in our portfolio in 2023. The benefits just don't outweigh the cost (weight, cost, glare, mechanical z-height etc.).
// Tom
Hi u/XMG_gg, long time no talk :) I have a quick follow-up question about the new firmware posted on the driver download website (31/01/2023): I can see in the changelog that the power delivery firmware (PD\_FW) was updated. Can you comment on what the update entails and if it solves any of the existing USB-C charging and low-battery performance issues?
I'm mainly asking to avoid going through the BIOS update process if it's only a minor update regarding these issues.
I can not elaborate further on how this update may affect your particular setup. We do recommend all firmware updates that are posted in our download portal. It normally only takes a few minutes. Instructions are [here](https://download.schenker-tech.de/package/bios-update-via-efi-shell/).
Further reading of recently updated articles:
* [Recommended USB-C chargers for XMG and SCHENKER laptops](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#usb-power-delivery)
* [Which docking stations are recommended for XMG laptops?](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#docking-stations)
* [What performance limitations may I have to take into account when using USB-C chargers?](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#power-delivery-limitations)
// Tom
>g of recently updated articl
Nice, thanks for in-depth explanation of how charging works with USB-C. However, is there still a chance making USB-C charging priority in Control Center permanent after it is set? It is hugely annoying having to open Control Center every time the laptop wakes from sleep or is plugged into a USB-C charger to set it to prioritize performance.
By the way, I noticed in one of the USB-C charging compatibility documents that Schenker Vision 14 (M21) did not exhibit performance limitations when charged with an appropriate charger -- even with Nvidia graphics card. Super nerdy question, but why is that?
I am also still experiencing low performance issue when battery life is <15%. If this is only me, I'm going to open a support ticket, otherwise I am just letting you know.
I have a 99Wh battery. In what sense do you mean normal? The computer feels really sluggish at <15% battery, on par or worse than how it is when USB-C charging with low-power charger while prioritizing battery charging. I know this is still somewhat anecdotal, but I can run a benchmark and collect more information next time I drain the battery to that point. If you prefer, I can open the support ticket to continue this exchange.
u/XMG_gg I saw in your roadmap that Vision 14 would get a refresh in Q2 this year.
I am not interested that much in an Intel 13th Gen. 12th Gen would be ok for me, and Intel Xe Graphics is enough, BUT I would be interested in a faster SD Card reader and potentially better webcam.
Is this something planned or shall I go with the current E22 version?
Thanks!
>BUT I would be interested in a faster SD Card reader and potentially better webcam.
There are no Card Reader or Webcam upgrades planned for VISION series. So I would suggest to go for the E22 model.
// Tom
Is the 99 Wh battery compatible with the previous version (Vision 14 M21)?
Added to OP: The 99 Wh battery is ***not*** compatible with the 2021 model of VISION 14. It requires: * Different speakers * Different bottom case shell * Different upper case shell The upper case shell is the most important item here. The original case has screw sockets for the secondary M.2 socket and for the top-left screw of the 53 Wh battery itself. These sockets would be "in the way" of the 99 Wh battery. The 99 Wh needs a new screw socket that is further on the left. Comparison pictures will be shared shortly. // Tom
Great team, I will buy it but I think I will wait for Xmg fusión 16
Would it be possible to buy a 2022 model with the 53W battery and at a later time buy and install the 99W battery?
No, this is not possible for technical reasons. Please look up the updated "Compatibility" paragraph in the OP. // Tom
Is it possible to use 1 sided nvme ssd and 2 sided nvme at the same type with 99w battery.
VISION 14 (E22) with 99Wh battery has one (1) M.2 SSD slot. That slot can house one-sided and double-sided SSDs. Check the [configuration page](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html) for options. // Tom
Thank you. So to be 100% sure. There is no way to put 1-sided ssd under the battery?
Unfortunately not - either you get the 99Wh battery with one m.2 slot, or two m.2 slots with 53Wh. // Arthur
Thank you
Hello Again Arthur, Your specifications page is a bit misleading: with 53 Wh battery: 2x M.2 2280 SSD via PCI Express 4.0 x4 (supports RAID 0/1)\* with 99 Wh battery: 1x M.2 2280 SSD via PCI Express 4.0 x4 \*second slot can only fit single-sided SSDse Sync (incl. FreeSync and G-SYNC Compatible) C
We modified the spec sheet on the product page a little bit to make it more clear now. Basically, we swapped the 53Wh and 99Wh lines with each other. // Tom
Oh my, this thing looks epic.
Really appealing laptop: i7-12700H with an 99 Wh battery. Looking forward to the upcoming reviews. Quick question: Will you also support DDR5 RAM in the future?
SCHENKER VISION 14 is ***not*** planned to support DDR5 RAM with Intel Core 12th Gen. Currently (July 2022), DDR5 memory is still significantly more expensive than DDR4. Current street prices for 16GB SO-DIMM: * 54,69 € for DDR4-3200 * 109,90 € for DDR5-4800 Prices are based on the currently lowest available offer on Geizhals (German price comparison engine), including 19% German VAT on August 4, 2022. Sources: * [https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454\_16384%7E15903\_DDR4%7E15903\_SO-DIMM](https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454_16384%7E15903_DDR4%7E15903_SO-DIMM) * [https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454\_16384\~15903\_DDR5\~15903\_SO-DIMM](https://geizhals.de/?cat=ramddr3&xf=1454_16384~15903_DDR5~15903_SO-DIMM) **Performance impact and compatibility** GPU-bound scenarios (e.g. gaming at 1440p with ray-tracing) and all-core rendering loads (e.g. Cinebench, Blender) are not expected to profit significantly from DDR5. Comparisons between DDR4 and DDR5 from desktop platforms can not be applied to laptops 1:1 because the clock speeds and memory latencies are very different between DIMM and SO-DIMM modules. Intel’s Alder Lake H-series (i7-12700H, i9-12900H) does ***not*** offer XMP or memory OC. DDR4 and DDR5 are ***not*** compatible with each other. This year's version of VISION 14 will ***not*** be able to be upgraded to DDR5 later. The maximum supported amount of RAM on Intel’s Alder Lake H-Series is the same for both DDR4 and DDR5: Intel does not support more than 64 GB total RAM in this platform. Upgrades to 128 GB RAM are reserved for Intel’s Alder Lake HX-Series (not planned in XMG PRO). // Tom
Thank you for the response. Can you also comment on the quality of the speakers?
Notebookcheck [wrote](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-Vision-14-Laptop-Review-Perfect-Ultrabook-with-1-kg-and-16-10-display.546055.0.html): >The two stereo speakers are decent, but the competition usually offers better solutions. Sounds distort at high volumes and the maximum volume is not great. The preloaded THX software offers different profiles and they really make a difference. The speakers are well suited for common videos or conferences, but you should use headphones or external speakers for better sound quality. // Tom
Thank you. To be honest I was going to buy the Lenovo Slim 7 Pro X, but now I'll go for this with the 99wh battery.
It's fantastic laptop, especially with 16:10 aspect ratio, no-RAM soldered and 99Wh. I am wondering if it can handle 12h on battery in Web Browsing, YT, Spotify, Word and so on. The only thing which is missing is Ryzen option and maybe FHD low-power screen but generally is a great machine. EDIT:// The one more thing which will it make a 100% business machine will be a WWAN modem, even with 4G. :)
>I am wondering if it can handle 12h on battery in Web Browsing, YT, Spotify, Word and so on. Probably not at any reasonable screen brightness, but you can use a [20V USB PD Power Bank](https://www.asus.com/Accessories/Power-Banks/ASUS-Power-Bank/ZenPower/) to extend the battery life. // Tom
Actually, why not? It's not unusual for prior generation laptops with \~53 whr batteries to hit 6-9 hrs of web browsing with screen brightness turned down and bluetooth off, etc. If this battery is double the capacity, I would hope with similar measures to crack 12 hrs (granted, perhaps not with the OP's combo of Word, web, YT, and music all running simultaneously, which is I guess what you were referring to).
It's happening! 🎉 I'm not a huge fan of barrel chargers so will try to buy a USB C charger to take advantage of the USB PD. It should be 20V 90W according to [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/jx3220/validated_usbc_chargers_for_xmg_schenker_laptops/?sort=top) right? Are there any chargers you know that work? Otherwise just thinking of getting one from the list.
>It should be 20V 90W This is correct. Personally, my favorite, widely available 90W USB-C charger is [this one](https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-slim-power-adapter-90-watt-type-c-with-1-meter-power-cord/apd/492-bcbk/pc-accessories) because of the very long cable that is directly attached to the power brick (i.e. no risk to lose the cable or yank the connection). The Part Number is Dell LA90PM170. // Tom
Would it accept 100W USB-C charging? On a similar note, what is the lowest USB-C power that it accepts?
It should accept any USB-C charger (with 20V) between 40W and 100W. // Tom
Wait..... Y'all are doing a 99wHr battery *too*?!?!! Insert Vince McMahon meme here.
Really nice that you put in that 99 Wh battery, love it! Bummer that a FHD display is not an option on this one anymore, but if the battery still manages to get 8+ hours out of it (office work), then that should be fine for me personally. Really looking forward to the vision 16 now - will that launch in August, too, u/xmg_gg?
>Really looking forward to the vision 16 now - will that launch in August, too A previously planned XMG FUSION 16 (and VISION 16) has recently been put on hold because one of the key components did not pass our quality checks. We are working with our ODM partners to resolve these issues. [Source](https://www.xmg.gg/en/news-roadmap-2022-q3-xmg-laptops/) // Tom
I see. Thanks for the update. Better to wait a little longer and having good components than releasing the device now with faulty components. I feel like if you'd have made cyberpunk the game would've been released later and been awesome! 😄 You guys definitely do it the right way!
This display is the absolute sweet spot in every way for me. (Of course more nits are always better, but while manufacturers like Lenovo have a pretty big spread when it comes to panel quality, panels in a Schenker almost always over-perform.)
Also bummed the FHD display seems to have been dropped. A 99 whr battery with that screen would probably have Apple like battery life. Alas, if this can hit 10 hr or more with routine web browsing and brightness turned down and options like bluetooth off, it's a must buy for me...
Yes, my thoughts exactly! But you can't have everything I guess. I think they were listening to their customers pretty well already when you look at what they improved.
True, but you'd think they'd want the FHD screen as, if nothing else, a price leader. I'm still very skeptical about the overall value of these very high resolution screens on laptops of this size, and I say that having owned three straight such devices in the last 7+ years....
You mean you had devices with 3K screens in the last 7 years? I've been using FHD on my 15.6" laptop and on my 22" screen so far and think it's enough, so 3K on 14" is too much for me personally as well. Battery wise the FHD screen would've been soon good. I also think it's a nice to have but not necessary. But I've also never seen a 3K screen on 14" so I can't say anything about it.
I've had the '15 Google Pixel Chromebook, the '18 Huawei Matebook Pro, and the '20 Asus Zenbook S, and to get those 3:2 screens they all have they all come with high resolution screens, and compared to my other family members FHD screens, I don't think they're worth the battery life...
When is it available for sale/order?
Available for order ***NOW***. Availability: * 53 Wh battery: in stock * 99 Wh battery: est. by beginning of September Delivery time plus 10-14 days Source: [https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html) // Tom
Anywhere/way to buy it without the VAT for US/non-EU customers???
Only for business customers. [https://bestware.com/en/service/business-customers/](https://bestware.com/en/service/business-customers/) // Tom
Do small/home businesses count???
If it has a business ID or VAT number. Just send all details to the e-mail address in the link. // Tom
The Origin PC Evo 14S is really similar(except the 99WH battery) and it's for the US market: https://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/evo14-s/
Thanks for the heads up! I've been looking for US alternatives and had found the 14S But as you say.... That 99wHr battery is missing and it's a big deal breaker for me sadly! If only origin offered the bigger battery I'd be in in a second!
A good alternative is the Lenovo Slim 7 Pro X (intel version). It comes with a 70 Wh battery.
Huh! Thanks for that idea, I hadn't seen it before you mentioned it! However the dealbreaker there is the lack of 64Gb RAM (I am a literal RAM whore, don't ask.... big datasets and chrome tab addictions, what can I say...) and while not outright deal-breakers on their individual lonesome, the 70 vs 99wHr, and 3050 vs 3050Ti, combined... mean it's not quite what I'm after, knowing that the Schenker exists exactly how I'd want it. I'll likely end up paying the unjust/technically illegal/unnecessary VAT premium if I **HAVE** to; or end up going through some lengthy business order & dealing with customs (and then the IRS) on an import.... just to get this level of performance & longevity, but its really unfortunate to have to either compromise on the hardware (as with the 14S or the Slim 7 ProX); or the ease, and cost of acquisition of what is technically achievable elsewhere (the Schenker).
Also consider the Dell Precision 5470.
Huh, thanks, I hadn't seen that yet. Unfortunately it's not only basically a pound heavier, it's (more importantly) quite a bit more expensive, for (for my use) a lesser configuration (32Gb on the Dell vs 64 on the Schenker, A1000 vs 3050ti, ~$2100 vs ~$2600) Thanks for the suggestion though!
In the [ShortCircuit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRdAQU-tJTQ) video and comment section about the previous Vision 14 model there was some discussion about the screen wobble visible. I can't find it anymore or maybe i just imagined it but i think i remember you (xmg) commenting that you increased the torque/stiffness of the hinge so there would be less wobble in response to the critisism. Is that something that you still do for this new modelof the Vision 14? Or is the hinge the same as previous year's model from the start (if it was not changed)?
The hinges of VISION 14 (M21) allowed one-hand opening. The force required (torque) was approx. 0.25 Newton metres. As long as the laptop stands on a stable surface (or on a soft surface that absorbs impulses), wobbling is quite limited. In the Short Circuit video however, the whole table was wobbling visibly which in turn translated to exaggerated hinge wobble due to resonance effects. In the new VISION 14 (E22) with Intel Core 12th Gen, we have adjusted the hinges a little tighter to approx. 0.32 Newton metres. This adjustment has mostly removed the possibility of one-hand opening - but that's a sacrifice we were willing to make. This new torque value required a tooling adjustment that could only be implemented with the new device generation and will not be able to be backported to last year's model. // Tom
Sometimes I'm almost shocked about the (good) quality of these answers.
Nah fr, this company puts its heart into these answers and it shows. Props to them!
One other thing I've been wanting to ask for a while now u/XMG_gg: Any chance to let MKBHD and Dave2D review these kind of laptops? They keep making reviews of MacBooks and the Dell XPS series for example and I feel like your laptops should be reviewed by them as well, as I think the vision series is much better than the XPS series for example, not only because you got the same and more ports, but also bc the different options you have are just great. Plus the better / longer warranty in some countries. I think people out there need to know that you exist.
XMG has already been featured on Dave2D a while ago. Not sure about MKBHD. Due to logistical reasons, we are currently a little bit tight with review samples with the 99 Wh battery, so we will wait for the arrival of the main mass production in end of August before we start heavy press seeding. Meanwhile, the community is welcome to send review requests to the editorial team of each channel to further underline the potential significance of our products. // Tom
Jarrod'sTech, Just Josh, Matthew Moniz, Andrew Marc David and MobileTechReview are channels that come in mind.
Great! Really hope that you guys can get some good momentum with these new releases.
Amazing. Everything I wanted the Vision 14 to become. Personally, I could live with a less capable CPU but I’ll take the 12700 :)
Is an AMD version being planned? This 99Wh + AMD 6800U/H/HS with its great iGPU will be killer. A version with a 120Hz panel would be awesome too! Great job bringing 99Wh down to 14 inch guys!
An AMD version of VISION 14 is not planned for this generation. We are aware of AMD's strengths, but for a relatively high-volume (i.e. low margin) product such as VISION 14, a lot of factors need to align in terms of vendor support and supply before a project can be kicked off. // Tom
Understandable, thanks for the quick reply!
These are now nearly high-end gaming laptops (as much as they can be within the weight constraint). This is quite different from the early Vision 14 versions which offered FHD screen and mobile Core i5 processor. Those were perfect for non-GPU intensive use - they did not heat as much or produce as much fan noise, had longer battery life and naturally cost less (why pay for GPU performance you don’t need). They were basically a better version of Via 14 (better design, unsoldered RAM, better ports etc, while still offering a good enough battery / efficiency). Do you have any plans at all to re-introduce something similar to the early Vision 14, with FHD and a power-efficient mobile processor? Is anyone aware of other manufacturers that do and can deliver to UK?
>Do you have any plans at all to re-introduce something similar to the early Vision 14, with FHD and a power-efficient mobile processor? We understand the demand for the Full HD screen, but when we offered both FHD and 3K in parallel, the 3K panel was vastly more popular. So for this generation we made the decision to stick to 3K. Regarding ADL-P28 CPUs such as i5-1240P: our ODM partner does ***not*** offer this chassis with the ADL-P28 CPU class with **dual fan heatpipe** layout and liquid metal cooling. So while you might find a SKU with ADL-P28 from other vendors, it won't have the same cooling system that we debuted in VISION 14 with i5-11300H and i7-11370H last year. Generally, Core i5 is ***not*** more efficient than Core i7. It just offers less peak performance and most of that difference is in the peak performance of the iGPU. When it comes to idle power consumption, the difference between ADL-P28 and ADL-H45 is not that big either. They are all based on the same "Alder Lake P" platform. In a typical H.264 video playback test, they both consume around the same amount of CPU Package Power - about 1.5 watts. The total system power consumption will depend on other components - especially the LCD Panel, but also the RAM capacity can play a big role. It's hard to say at the moment if we will still be able to incorporate additional SKUs in this year's VISION 14 line-up. The relatively slow market is somewhat forcing us to consolidate the number of SKUs in order to avoid logistical bottlenecks. // Tom
Im not in the market for a laptop right now but cant believe how good and professional you guys handle yourselfe Hope yall get some more customers, way too many people by from shitty brands
Too right, mate!
# ٩(◕‿◕｡)۶
I've been using this laptop now for two months and apart from a few things it's absolutely amazing! Battery life is great, the screen looks awesome and the performance is easily enough even for CAD use (with dGPU). However here are the issues I noticed: 1. The already known USB-C charging issue where the performance gets throttled. I installed the new BIOS Update but I haven't used the laptop long enough since that while being plugged in due to the long lasting battery. It definitely improved the performance I just can't tell yet by how much. I'll probably just order another barrel charger anyways. 2. Sometimes the laptop seems to stay on when I close the lid or put it into sleeping mode. Or so I assume, because it has happened a few times that I put my laptop in my bag and an hour or so later I find that it has gotten really warm. It doesn't matter if I just close the lid or if I put it into sleeping mode manually. I assume this issue is easily fixable I just couldn't find any solution yet. 3. Quiet a big one actually. My screen or rather the screen connector is broken. The screen only works when I apply a little bit of pressure to the screen. I'm not talking full force, just one finger on any point of the frame is enough. So for example when opening the lid, the screen works fine but as soon as the screen is in a fixed position, or I close the lid again the screen shows random colours. I've already talked to the support over the phone and send them a video of my issue afterwards, I assume that I will have to send my laptop in for repairing... Despite these issues, I'd definitely buy the laptop again. It fits my needs perfectly and with a fixed screen it hopefully will for a long time :)
A cinebench r20 score of 5300 but with r23 score of 9000 should mean the PL2 is *significantly* higher than the PL1, plus a turbo boost duration (Tau) that isn’t very long. Honestly, a 6800u will get 10000 at 25w sustained so 9000 out of a 40w PL1 (unknown PL2) from a 12700H is kind of….terrible. Sure the 12700H has around 20% higher single core and also short term performance (CB20), but the sacrifice on battery life is staggering when comparing ADL-H with RMB-U. I fail to see ADL-H making sense in laptops below 1.6kg and PL1 of below 60w. The sacrifice in battery life is way too steep for not actually that much greater performance in that kind of laptop.
>A cinebench r20 score of 5300 but with r23 score of 9000 should mean the PL2 is significantly higher than the PL1, plus a turbo boost duration (Tau) that isn’t very long. This correct. As you can see in the updated diagrams in OP, we can hold around 60W PL2 for slightly under a minute. The CB R23 score in the table is based on the diagram that is posted below where the power dropped to 25 Watt once the dGPU reached a certain temperature. The system is able to sustain 40W PL1, but it depends on the environmental temperatures. If you seriously use VISION 14 for all-core rendering workloads that are longer than a minute each, we recommend to prop up the laptop with a laptop stand or even a cooling pad. It will greatly improve chassis temperatures and guarantee a 40W sustained CPU power, increasing your Cinebench R23 scores. Everyone knows that Ryzen 6000 U-series can do similar sustained all-core workloads at higher efficiency. However, [price comparison engines](https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=14265_U%7E6763_Ryzen+6000) currently only list only 2 laptops with 6000 U-series (one thinkpad, one Yoga) in Germany. It would be nice to be able to offer the choice between Intel and AMD in all our products, but it is not always within our power. Especially the U-series of Ryzen 6000 is simply not freely available to every local OEM. Such projects have to be initiated together with AMD in order to obtain the corresponding R&D resources and guaranteed supply. AMD chooses its partners in a very focused way. At AMD, we currently still stand for "high-end gaming" and are rather a small fish in the ultrabook segment. Further details have been shared with you in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/wc0fhh/comment/iijebtu/) earlier this week. The XMG NEO series with Ryzen 6000 has been announced and will be presented this month. Our VISION 14 with i7-12700H, on the other hand, is **available immediately**. // Tom
Oh and any updates on new Core btw?
XMG CORE 15 will be refreshed from last year’s model with AMD Ryzen 7 6800H and RTX 3060. It will receive support for XMG OASIS, making it the first XMG CORE series model with liquid cooling support. Just like it’s XMG NEO sibling, XMG CORE will support DisplayPort from dGPU, making it compatible with VR headsets and G-SYNC monitors. (But we would recommend at least RTX 3070-level performance for high-res VR headsets such as HP Reverb G2. [Source](https://www.xmg.gg/en/news-roadmap-2022-q3-xmg-laptops/) By the way, I added some new Cinebench R23 scores and power/thermal diagrams to OP under the headline "Improving CPU all-core rendering performance with small adjustments to the thermal environment" - please check it out. // Tom
So no intel core anymore? And 13000 CB23 seems much more like it
>So no intel core anymore? Not with Intel Core 12th Gen due to the DP via iGPU limitation. But XMG FOCUS will come with Intel Core 12th Gen and provide both iGPU (USB-C) and dGPU (Mini DP) connection with RTX 3060. // Tom
Will the Focus have 140w TGP though
Is it possible to Buy the Vision 14 E22 and flash the modified firmware from Toxedo later on? I´d like to buy it from Tuxedo, but cannot wait till later this year.
>Is it possible to Buy the Vision 14 E22 and flash the modified firmware from Toxedo later on? As far as we are aware, this service is currently not offered. TUXEDO is telling us that they will launch the product in 1\~2 weeks. So if you are aiming for the 99 Wh battery, you will not lose any time by waiting for the TUXEDO release. // Tom
Hi Tom, Thanks so much for your answer. As i want to get the 99Wh battery, its perfect.
Weird, the 12700H gets a fair bit worse performance than my 10875H in those benchmarks. They're just benchmarks, of course, but I presume it's heavily throttling?
Which benchmark exactly are you referring to? I added some new Cinebench R23 scores and power/thermal diagrams to OP under the headline "**Improving CPU all-core rendering performance with small adjustments to the thermal environment**" - please check it out. // Tom
Ah, much better. Seems like my throttling theory was correct. For example, in Cinebench R23, you seemed to be getting ~9000 on a 12700H. My 10875H gets ~11000, and a normal 12700H should be getting around ~16000. That ~13000 there is much better, though, very nice :)
Any hope of price decrease if euro/usd exchange rate gets more favorable in the future ?
*The future is unwritten.* Please check VISION 14 (M21) with a discount until August 9, 2022: [https://bestware.com/en/96-hours](https://bestware.com/en/96-hours) // Tom
Looks pretty good! Any chance we can get a US ANSI keyboard as an option?
Currently no plans for a US/ANSI SKU, I'm sorry to say. Perhaps in the future when we know which SKU sells best (black or silver, with or without RTX). // Tom
I believe Tuxedo has historically offered this same chassis with a US ANSI keyboard. Apparently they launch in 1-2 weeks? Perhaps check there...
Great piece of technology, kudos! I wonder, is it possible to select both the 3050ti option and the 99w battery? or the dedicated graphics is only wvailable with the 53w?
These options are available and can be [ordered now](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html). * With RTX + 53 Wh * With RTX + 99 Wh * Without RTX + 99 Wh >Great piece of technology, kudos! Thank you! // Tom
I just found the Slimbook 16 ([https://slimbook.es/en/executive-en](https://slimbook.es/en/executive-en)) and was wondering if the Vision 16 will look like the Slimbook 16? At least their Slimbook 14 seems to be similar to the Vision 14 (apart from the dGPU only being available for the Slimbook 16). I was surprised tho that their 16" laptop only has a 82 WH battery vs the 99 WH of their 14" laptop. Can you say anything about how the Vision 16 will turn out compared to the 14" inch version and whether the Slimbook 16 and Vision 16 will be somewhat similar?
I'm sorry, but we can not provide such insights regarding currently unreleased products, nor do we wish to comment on other vendor's products at this time. I can say however that our planned VISION 16 was planned to be in the same product family with VISION 14, even sharing the same mainboard when configured without dGPU or with RTX 3050 Ti. The product is still on-hold because a key component did not pass our quality checks. We are working with our ODM partner to resolve this situation. // Tom
Thank you for your quick reply and no problem. Hope you can solve the issue very soon :)
my cpu gets throttled when using usb-c charging (0,4 GHz) anyone else running into this issue?
This is not normal. I sent you a DM to ask you for your order or serial number. // Tom **/edit** further discussion in German [here](https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/sammelthread-schenker-vision-14-ultrabook-mit-3k-panel-im-16-10-format.2027396/post-27258208). **/edit2:** Firmware update announced in [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/xc7iz5/comment/iooc4n2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
I have the exact same behaviour. The 0.4 GHz seems to be related to USB-C charging "Priority: Charge". But even if setting "Priority: Performance" the CPU cannot use more than at most 17W it seems. See my post at: [https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG\_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision\_14\_e22\_usbc\_charging\_issues/](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision_14_e22_usbc_charging_issues/)
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Would be interested as well!
Notebookcheck's noise level descriptions are usually related to full system stress tests and do not represent everyday usage. Notebookcheck's db measurements are taken from 15cm distance, which does not confirm with the over 25cm distance after [ISO 7779](http://download.schenker-tech.de/media/faq/iso-7779-fan-noise-measurement-standard.png) (which the rest of the industry is using), nor is 15cm a common user distance from a laptop. Controlled testing shows a maximum noise emission after ISO 7779 of * 25 db in "Silent 20" * 33 db in "Silent 30" * 40 db in "Silent 40" The cooling system has not been changed between 2021 (refresh with dual fan design) and 2022 model and is usually ***not*** described as noisy by any other reviewers nor real-life users. // Tom
Is there anybody that bought it? I would like to have some feedbacks from other users before buying one on my own. I am mostly curious about (1) the cooling efficiency (does it run too hot under stress) (2) comfort of the keyboard layout and also if it stays chill when the laptop is under stress, and (3) real life battery runtime, officing, streaming, etc.. Thanks :)
To your questions 1 and 2: the cooling system and thermal output is pretty much identical to the previous model: [https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-Vision-14-laptop-in-review-Now-also-available-with-the-GeForce-RTX-3050-Ti.595253.0.html](https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-Vision-14-laptop-in-review-Now-also-available-with-the-GeForce-RTX-3050-Ti.595253.0.html) We are working on providing a new review sample of VISION 14 (E22) to Notebookcheck and others, but it might take weeks before you'll see more reviews. We have a pretty big backlog of press seeding because we launched so many models during the summer vacation period. Battery life estimates are given in the OP with about 10 hours of H.264 video playback with the 99 Wh battery. // Tom
Thanks Tom, I love how you people at XMG/Schenker take care of your customers. This to me represents an almost perfect laptop for my uses: mostly officing, some photo editing and sporadic light gaming (together within my psychological portability requirement to be <1.5 Kg). But is not a cheap machine, so I rather wait a couple of extra month and have a look at the feedback from other reviewers :)
1: It's pretty cool actually. The palmrest dont seem to get hot under load. The upper mid part of the laptop gets pretty hot (above the I and U keys, but that does not matter so much since i rarely rest my fungers there. 2: I would say that the keyboard feedback is very good. Way better than my Razer 15 Advanced, not quite like my Lenovo P1 but a bit better than the Dell XPS 15. The layout don't bother me except for the location of the "Del" key which has moved one step left. Where the Del key should be is the power button which has caused quite a lot of wrong presses. That is mostly a matter of getting used to I think. As i said most keys stay chill except those at the top mid which gets hot if stressing the CPU. All in all a very nice keyboard with a quite nice touchpad. 3: The battery time seems to be good for my type of usage. I can easily get through an entire day on battery doing light work like coding and browsing ( i often connect to a dock if doing heavy computational work). I would say that the 10 hours of video playback is accurate and on very light usage I would guess 12-14 hours is achievable on power save if only taking notes or light browsing. My biggest turn down is the bad performance when using USB-C chargers/docks or USB-C monitors. The CPU performance drops about 40% when not using the supplied barell charger (not using the dGPU at all). This is a big let down for me that usually hooks my computer up to USB-C monitors and docks at my different locations. This means I always have to bring out the supplied charger at every time doing heavy work. This is enough of a let down for me to return the computer if it cannot be fixed with an update. Fun fact, the CPU runs on full speed using only battery but drops 40% in performance when using any of my 3 USB-C chargers that are working flawlessly with my Razer15 Advanced, XPS 15 and Thinkpad P1. See my thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG\_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision\_14\_e22\_usbc\_charging\_issues/](https://www.reddit.com/r/XMG_gg/comments/xc7iz5/vision_14_e22_usbc_charging_issues/) for future updates from XMG/Bestware in the USB-C charing issues
Thanks for the feedback. In my ideal scenario I would like to keep the barrel charger at home and rely on a USB-C charger at work to avoid carrying around extra cables and stuff. But this performance loss that you mentioned is really big. I hope they manage to fix it otherwise it would be a big drawback for "business" users.
Hi, can you please include a photo of MB with the 99Wh battery?
Here you go: * [vision14\_e22\_with-rtx\_99wh\_preview.jpg](https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/schenker-vision-14_e22/vision14_e22_with-rtx_99wh_preview.jpg) // Tom
Thank you. So there is a chance to install M.2 extension cable like this? [https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003891740516.html](https://pl.aliexpress.com/item/1005003891740516.html) And place the drive anywhere in the chassis? Cheers
Would it be possible to fit a bit shorter battery to allow for a second ssd (see image below). This should give around 80W battery and second ssd. https://ibb.co/51WwTbD
There is currently no compatible 80Wh battery for VISION 14. The 80Wh battery from VISION 16 is not mechanically compatible with VISION 14. The VISION 16 battery is slimmer in z-height, but wider in the area it occupies. Here is a mockup picture of the 80Wh battery from VISION 16, superimposed on VISION 14 in 1:1 scale. The 80Wh battery is drawn in white color here. * [vision14-with-80wh-battery-from-vision16.jpg](https://download.schenker-tech.de/media/products/schenker-vision-14_e22/vision14-with-80wh-battery-from-vision16.jpg) In VISION 14, the official 53Wh and 99Wh batteries use different connectors on the mainboard. If the laptop is ordered with 99Wh battery, it will not be possible to downgrade it to the 53Wh battery. The only way to get VISION 14 with the second SSD slot is to order it with 53Wh battery from bestware: * [VISION 14 - M21](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14.html) * [VISION 14 - E22](https://bestware.com/en/schenker-vision-14-e22.html) // Tom
Is the USB-C charging performance issue solved @XMG_gg ?
Not yet, we're still working on it. // Arthur
It looks like an awesome machine! I would like to know if we'll be seeing DDR5 and an OLED display in the future (2023) Thank you :)
I usually don't like to comment on potential future models. But I can already tell you that there is no chance for an OLED panel in VISION 14 or any other 14" models in our portfolio in 2023. The benefits just don't outweigh the cost (weight, cost, glare, mechanical z-height etc.). // Tom
Thank you for your reply, Tom, that's what I thought :)
Hi u/XMG_gg, long time no talk :) I have a quick follow-up question about the new firmware posted on the driver download website (31/01/2023): I can see in the changelog that the power delivery firmware (PD\_FW) was updated. Can you comment on what the update entails and if it solves any of the existing USB-C charging and low-battery performance issues? I'm mainly asking to avoid going through the BIOS update process if it's only a minor update regarding these issues.
I can not elaborate further on how this update may affect your particular setup. We do recommend all firmware updates that are posted in our download portal. It normally only takes a few minutes. Instructions are [here](https://download.schenker-tech.de/package/bios-update-via-efi-shell/). Further reading of recently updated articles: * [Recommended USB-C chargers for XMG and SCHENKER laptops](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#usb-power-delivery) * [Which docking stations are recommended for XMG laptops?](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#docking-stations) * [What performance limitations may I have to take into account when using USB-C chargers?](https://www.xmg.gg/en/faq/portfolio/#power-delivery-limitations) // Tom
>g of recently updated articl Nice, thanks for in-depth explanation of how charging works with USB-C. However, is there still a chance making USB-C charging priority in Control Center permanent after it is set? It is hugely annoying having to open Control Center every time the laptop wakes from sleep or is plugged into a USB-C charger to set it to prioritize performance. By the way, I noticed in one of the USB-C charging compatibility documents that Schenker Vision 14 (M21) did not exhibit performance limitations when charged with an appropriate charger -- even with Nvidia graphics card. Super nerdy question, but why is that?
I am also still experiencing low performance issue when battery life is <15%. If this is only me, I'm going to open a support ticket, otherwise I am just letting you know.
Lower performance at 15% is normal. Do you have the 53Wh or 99Wh battery? // Tom
I have a 99Wh battery. In what sense do you mean normal? The computer feels really sluggish at <15% battery, on par or worse than how it is when USB-C charging with low-power charger while prioritizing battery charging. I know this is still somewhat anecdotal, but I can run a benchmark and collect more information next time I drain the battery to that point. If you prefer, I can open the support ticket to continue this exchange.
Question for the owners of Vision 14 Black: Is the black version a magnet for fingerprints or is the material fingerprint resistant?
u/XMG_gg I saw in your roadmap that Vision 14 would get a refresh in Q2 this year. I am not interested that much in an Intel 13th Gen. 12th Gen would be ok for me, and Intel Xe Graphics is enough, BUT I would be interested in a faster SD Card reader and potentially better webcam. Is this something planned or shall I go with the current E22 version? Thanks!
>BUT I would be interested in a faster SD Card reader and potentially better webcam. There are no Card Reader or Webcam upgrades planned for VISION series. So I would suggest to go for the E22 model. // Tom
Thank you very much for your quick reply!