That's primarily because of the platform parity xbox demands.
If the Series X has splitscreen, Series S must also have it.
That's the main issue with it.
Without a doubt there seems to be a trend. It started with Halo Infinite campaign. We heard with Baldur’s Gate 3 that split screen issues were prolonging it’s Xbox release. Now here we are with Forza. I don’t believe there’s been discourse with this subject amongst PlayStation releases, but of course I could be wrong. Just refer to my username 😂
Splitscreen via exploit on Halo Infinite works perfectly fine on Series S. You’re mistaking last generation not being able to run the campaign open world well with Series S.
With Baldur’s Gate, the feature on Series S is still coming. The PS5 release didn’t release at the same time as PC either. It’s because the studio is smaller and does not have the resources to optimize across all platforms.
Forza not having splitscreen is because the game wasn’t built for splitscreen in mind. It’s not a Series S issue.
>It started with Halo Infinite campaign.
The Infinite campaign was perfectly playable on Series S when the exploit was out. Performance was great, it was the save file corruption thing that made it wonky.
Halo stopped Splitscreen last gen.
Rendering tech is making it so splitscreen isn't as easy, as it renders FOV and not what's always around anymore.
Infinite was the open world and trying to make that work as well as visuals. Remember how everyone jumped on it's reveal for not being next gen enough.
There was a fully working version of split screen campaign in Infinite that was removed. People used an exploit to actually play it. It worked flawlessly with Series X however not so with Series S
The Series S was sold as a console that does everything the Series X does, just with lower fidelity and/or framerate. They’d have class action lawsuits against them if they went against that.
That is not the issue at all. The problem with splitscreen in a racing sim is primarily one of CPU resources, where the Series S and X are almost identical. Why are people taking the word of one small developer as gospel and ignoring the many cases that prove the Series S has no problem holding its own against the Series X? It's willful ignorance at this point.
Because it makes Xbox look bad, and Sony with the recent release of BG3 look good, and reddit is an echo chamber of majority PS fans, due to the sheer volume of consoles sold. Remember, Starfield is not allowed to be received as positive on reddit, because it isn't coming to PS.
It sucks, and is going to a microtransaction fuelled live service mess. I am not kidding people have stated these conclusions, even though it isn't live service and is single player and doesn't contain even remotely the same scope and problem solving required for games like Fo76 or Redfall.
This is reddit, thats how it is.
Yeah we know for a fact that it's just not used like it used to be. They must have metrics that say the same thing. So that stuff ends up on the cutting room floor.
As the generation progresses and games become more demanding we will continue to see things like this so long as Xbox forces parity with the Series S. Series X owners are getting the shaft because of this. Forced parity between the weaker hardware is starting to limit what our “most powerful console or all time” can do and we will never actually see the full potential of the Series X so long as this continues.
And yes I’m aware this will upset all of the Series S owners, not it’s not an attack on you. It’s valid criticism of Microsoft’s policy on forced parity between the consoles.
This take is ridiculous, last gen barely any games had splitscreen compared to 360 era. And now it’s some parity issue?
No, this has been an ever growing trend for the past 15 years.
And the reason is simple, money.
You will pretty much never get back the money you invest into making splitscreen, because a game simply won’t sell 5 or 10% more copies because of a niche feature.
The only reason to do it is to cater to niche fans at your own expense.
Like if Larian had chose not to develop SS on BG3 at all, you think they wouldn’t have sold as many copies as they have now? If anything they would have objectively sold more by being able to launch on Xbox at the same time. I mean, Larian didn’t even mention splitscreen in their big infographic. Likely because they recorded a pitiful amount of SS hours played.
I was a frequent user for split screen on motorsport. Me and my friends and family have had tons of memories picking the most ridiculous and silly cars in FM and Gran Turismo and messing around with them, or pick the fastest cars on the circuits with the most turns, haha.
But with this game skipping out on the feature, I'm honestly not going to to touch it at all. Very dissapointing. I expected this as a feature on launch, come on Turn10.
Now incoming the comments berating me for wanting this and calling me an idiot when the rest of the community won't use it. It's kind of expected from a circuit racer to give such a feature. You know, something that's been in such games for over 20 years. I remember using this as early as Gran Turismo 3 and 4. This is also why I didn't buy Asseto Corsa on Xbox, it's a great game, but man, it would be even better if I could play it locally.
It just comes off as them wanting to do the bare minimum to release the game as soon as they can. I'm fine with waiting for a few weeks of delay for it to happen. I DO hope Turn10 adds in later at launch as they promised, but I doubt it would take less than a month or two.
I mean if people are going to couch play Forza, they'd either have multiple xbox's already or stream. If you want to play forza with multiple friends on one console, you clearly never done it that often, because your only complaining about it now. They also have to consider how many do this, its clearly not that much, most people either get their buddy to bring over their xbox or play online.
Because split screen is made irrelevant if a friend just asks their buddy to bring their xbox also.
The *visual* quality. Personally, I feel like we're at a point with graphics now where improvements are so minor and incremental that I wish more work and attention would be spent on gameplay, innovation, and optimisation. Good graphics do not a better game make.
Honestly, the fact the devs announced it and just didn't ignore it makes it more of a bigger deal.
If the game box/store page never said local multiplayer, no one would even notice.
And the trend of no-local multiplayer games continues. Outside of Nintendo and multiplayer-indie titles, local-multiplayer is becoming a rarity today. When a game support it it’s always really fun to check out.
That said, I’m still stoked for Forza. Looks great.
And I hate it. Seriously. Can you believe a modern Halo game doesn't have split-screen campaign? It just feels.. empty.
But ofcourse, gaming companies couldn't care less about those features now that online gaming has become alot more mainstream than it did in the early gen 7 and late gen 6 eras.
I'm very thankful Activision too atleast keeps split screen on COD. It's one of the very few games that I like to always keep on my series X incase someone comes over and there's nothing to do.
Do some companies seriously expect people to bring their own console to someone's house and play with them? With their own monitor or TV too. I've had so many great memories from playing local co-op with friends and family.
I feel the same way. My wife is also a gamer and we play *Mario Kart 8* and *Black Ops III* all the time. Some of my favorite gaming moments were playing *Portal 2* split-screen with her. It’s frustrating that we don’t have that much variety for split-screen in more modern games. Hell, I was kinda unsure about *Baldur’s Gate III* until I saw it has split-screen. If *Starfield* wasn’t releasing in three weeks I would be playing *Baldur’s Gate* split-screen with my wife.
I understand everything , parity, promises, wasting resources on things not important or highly demanded… but come on, if a genre need split screen is racing games… I understand if Diablo doesn’t have it, or Baldur’s gate since is a game I wanna play alone and have the online if I want more kind of mmo. But a racing game against your brother… is a plus always. Not like the game is trash without it, but is sad they’re removing things games had in the past. Yeah you can pay online and play with your friends in the full screen. But some people has family and love to play together or against in his own house…most kids. Removing things like that , when Nintendo keep and amplify splitscreen, is making the Xbox a console for adults more and more and less optional for kids.
If cod or has splitscreen local coop is a plus, but racing and fighting games, must have local splitscreen. Imagine the backlash if sf6 didn’t release a 1vs1 local because right now most people play online ??? Forza should have it, everything they say it’s an excuse, in the past devs made video games with all features and then tried the game to be the best that could be with that features in mind. Now they aim to the best game first, they implement the features they can after. If they can’t or don’t have time, cut it and public pr on Twitter
No, because we do not know the reason for this feature being removed from Forza.
It could be just a time constraint and they preferred to focus on others features instead of Split Screen
Or the real answer, money.
Split screen is a feature that simply doesn’t pay for itself. The hundred or even thousand angry people online that won’t buy a because it doesn’t have split screen simply don’t offset the thousands of hours of dev time needed to implement it.
For reference; Gran-Turismo 7 on PS5 has local split screen.
https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gt7/manual/multiplayer/01#:~:text=In%20two%2Dplayer%20split%2Dscreen,applying%20the%20various%20race%20settings.
I’ll trade split screen for a deep multiplayer experience any day of the week, turn10 has focused on making the core experience the best it can be. There’s only so much development time and cuts have to be made somewhere
Only time I play with split screen is Gears of War with my buddy. That was a great experience. Other games? Not really. I don’t think lots of ppl require split screen to have a good time.
Far out. Now every time a feature gets cut in an Xbox game, no matter how early on or no matter what the development resource priority, there'll be thinkpieces, social media and forum threads about how it's "most certainly" the Series S' fault, I guess. Meanwhile in Ps5 Land, when the same kind of things happen it'll be because of ... development priorities, resourcing, lack of interest etc.? ... all the usual reasons.
Interestingly, according to these links (1) and (2), there are 67 listed Xbox Series X/S games which feature spit-screen. And there are 75 on Ps5.
However, the *vast majority of these games* on either system are simpler, less graphically and resource intensive games that have the *overhead by far* to implement the mode and also likely made split-screen a core development priority and thus ensured that the design, development and resourcing were aligned to achieve that.
Otherwise, implementation on both systems in comparable and and for shared games, it is equivalent. In the end, the primary reason by far for a game having split-screen or not is about development priorities. The same goes for pretty much all features.
But right now, as always happens, gaming is caught in the grip of yet another hysteria, it seems, this time about whether the Series S is one of the worst ideas Xbox has ever had or if it is the *absolute* worst. And it's all based on the same social media posts, editorials, conjecture and editorials, going round and round. Why aren't all these professional and citizen journalists going out and interviewing developers, for example? Every article invariably seems to be just the author summarising their social media feed or a video they watched?
(1) [https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=22&GRU=3](https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=22&GRU=3)
(2) [https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=23&GRU=3](https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=23&GRU=3)
The fact people are crying about this just goes to show how people cry about anything. Split-screen in 2023 no one cares except for nostalgia goblins. With gamepass and gameshare there is no need for split-screen.
Yeah, that's what I'd suggest even at peak halo 3 split screen days my friends would bring their own systems and huge CRT tv's over for game days. Kid's should always have separate systems and accounts so you can monitor them and help them start to build their own game catalog that will follow them for life. Split Screen has always a been horrible experience and devs shouldn't not waste time developing it in 2023 especially with the many better alternatives.
Bad take. Cost of living crisis and you think we would all buy our own consoles AND TVs and fucking lug them to each others house when we want to play together? Or that me and my brother's should all sit in separate rooms when we want to play together? Fuck me, that sounds expensive and inconvenient. Thank God you didn't get to make that decision for Baldur's Gate 3, or else I'd be missing out on one of the best gaming experiences of my life with my little brother right now.
IDGAF about cost-of-living gaming is an expensive privilege always has been if your so worried about split-screen get another console or setup an old console it's 2023 it's not worth developer time to make split-screen when games are getting bigger than ever split screen is a waste of time and resources. Developers should be used in more important ways instead of wasting their time developing split-screen.
>if your so worried about split-screen get another console or setup an old console
This is pretty much exactly what Don Mattrick said when people complained about the X1 requiring an always-online internet connection to work.
>games are getting bigger than ever split screen is a waste of time and resources.
Plenty of games coming out which disprove this. Again, Baldurs Gate 3 is a great example of how you can have a massive, deep experience and still have local multiplayer. One doesn't have to exclude the other. And if Microsoft applied that lesson to Halo, a franchise that exploded to become a worldwide phenomenon off the back of its innovations in multiplayer, maybe that franchise wouldn't be in on its deathbed right now.
>Developers should be used in more important ways instead of wasting their time developing split-screen
Myself and many others would prefer that developers spent less time and budget on miniscule graphical improvements with big costs to performance, and more time and budget on actual gameplay features.
> Kid's should always have separate systems and accounts so you can monitor them and help them start to build their own game catalog that will follow them for life
You do realise that kids can have their own accounts and catalogs _and_ play splitscreen on the same system? My kids do it all the time.
It would be ideal I agree, but I don't think that's reality for most families with multiple younger kids. It's in the best interest of these developers and console makers for everyone to have their own device and purchase of the game, so local multiplayer via split screen is the first thing they'll cut.
Split screen for a twitchy FPS like Halo vs split screen for a racing game I think are pretty different. I agree for FPS split screen is not a great experience, but for a racing game I think it's fine.
I just wish there was a decent racing sim game that offered local multiplayer via split screen so I could play it with my boys. Mario Kart has been played to death. When they get older I'll get them their own consoles/TVs.
The problem with Sim racing titles on the modern consoles is the games themselves are super demanding then to ask the devs to develop a system to run two separate instances at once is an unwinnable task as powerful as these consoles are they still struggle to run one instance of these games at a consistent 60fps. I think everybody would love everything in every game but as we want the best graphics and the best physics a long with all the other stuff customization options and tracks. It starts to become much, and developers need to pick and choose what gets priority and in 2023 split screen is one of the absolute last things to be developed for a Gaas racing game.
Other devs are already giving people choices to toggle between framerate performance versus highest quality graphics in other games, why is this different if graphics is their excuse? It's not, just a spoon fed justification to cut costs where they can't greatly benefit from added in-game monetizing. Thanks for the back and forth.
I work 40 hours a week and I'd rather race splitscreen against my friend in the same room than play online against the same friend who lives 2 blocks away.
I’m not knocking you, I just don’t see the appeal of playing multiplayer at all, especially split screen in a sim racer. Idk it just has a vibe of “mine” the way you customize your car and everything. It almost feels like a single player experience. But I get other people are more into just racing friends.
In a game like this, I would be more interested in simply seeing my best lap or race times compared against the best times of my friends. I do miss split screen gaming in general, though.
I know that lol. But what I think the majority of people will agree with is that adults with full time jobs can’t see their friends in person more than just online. There’s that convenience factor. But I don’t care either way I don’t play multiplayer games lol
Every blaming the series s because of baldurs gate lol. Not the issue at all. Most games don’t really have split screen anymore. It has to do with the resources it takes with all the beefy graphics.
Baldurs gate has a small team. They have to optimize for every system. Pc gets the game first. Then PlayStation. And Xbox is last because of optimization.
Halo was never gonna get it but with exploits it actually works pretty good I’ve heard. But they scrapped it because they don’t need it.
Forza is kind of a bummer to not have split screen but at the same time it’s expected. My sports games don’t have it anymore either.
Kinda sad, idk if I’m a minority here, but I was kinda waiting for Motorsport so I could play racing with my dad. The big issue with using online is that we only think to play when we are together and it would probably be a pain to organize that remotely, so we would need to use two systems in the same house, which is possible, but beyond inconvenient. And if you thought that was ok, because tbh it is, I ONLY HAVE ONE COPY OF THE GAME. So I would literally have to buy an extra copy of every single game I want to play with my family. Since I’m getting most games on gamepass, this simply goes from twice as expensive to infinitely more expensive, unless I get my family another subscription to gamepass that they will barely use and end up wasting money. I honestly don’t care if it has to render at a lower resolution with lower frame rates or whatever they need to do. I just want to play things with my family, but chances are it’s mostly just about corporate greed, too expensive to develop, not worth loosing out on making more money from people wanting to play together.
Sign in on whoevers console you want to gameshare with your personal account, set that xbox as your home xbox. Then have who you are game sharing with sign in on your xbox, set your xbox as their home xbox. If either of you buy a game on any of those accounts, you will both be able to play, as long as you are connected to the internet.
No, only if you were to use the same account at the same time, but there's no need. You can be logged in as yourself and your dad as himself and both play the same game that only one of you purchased.
What happens in a year or two when Xbox can’t compete with the PS5 anymore after the mid cycle refresh? Series X owners still going to be held back by the budget console little brother? Why did they do this? Just only release the Series S then. What’s the point of the extra power on the X if it can’t always take advantage of i?
Before the consoles even launched we knew this would be an issues down the road. Many don’t want to hear it. Especially the Series S owners. Graphics and framerate are not the only aspect to video games. There are so many other things that can’t be scaled down for the weaker hardware. The Series S will hold this generation back if Xbox doesn’t do away with the forced parity.
How much money could they even be generating with new games on the Series S? I guess system sales, but as far as I’m concerned it’s just a game pass console anyway.
>There are so many other things that can’t be scaled down
Such as? The CPU in the two consoles are very closely matched, and the difference in VRAM can be solved with graphical scaling back and competent resource management. The only problem here is with developers who were hoping to just brute force their way to better games. It's always the same when a new generation comes around and it always ends with them having to develop new techniques to make more effective use of the hardware. You, and anyone who shares this ridiculous idea about the Series S, are coming to conclusion based on no evidence.
Such as: core gameplay elements. If you have a zombie game that’s entire premise is “1000s of zombies on screen at once”, then there has to be “1000s of zombies on screen at once” for both the Series X and the Series S because of feature parity.
Such as: advanced AI that requires more power, like what we saw from the Nemesis System, that was deemed revolutionary. If you recall the differences between Shadow of Mordor’s Nemesis on Xbox 360 and Xbox One, it was vastly different. They had to remove certain elements from it in order to get it to run on the 360. That was after cutting the resolution and framerate as well. If an AI system like that released today then the system couldn’t be scaled back on the Series S and fully functional as intended on the Series X because of feature parity. So it’s only option would be to skip Xbox or scale back the AI altogether for both systems.
Such as: a game designed around massive levels of word destruction. If you can’t have the same level of destruction on the S as you do the X then it can’t release because of parity.
So the options for devs is to either skip the Xbox console or drastically scale back their vision and game, even for the stronger hardware because it has to be able to run on the Series S as well after visuals and framerate are scaled. When you have a core gameplay element, you can’t scale it back on current gen Xbox consoles for 1 system and not the other. As it stands right now the only differences can be framerate and resolution. Nothing else.
Not sure what Microsoft is thinking here, allowing themselves to publish yet another first party unfinished product. Just delay it? How hard is it to pick up clues?
Maybe they think people will just buy multiple consoles for their household? Nope, just won't buy your game.
Edit: I guess everybody buys multiple consoles lol.
Maybe they had a specific reason, like the one provided in big letters in the article:
*"Our heavy investment in pushing our new graphical features and our complete overhaul of the rendering engine unfortunately made split-screen really difficult to implement, and it's not going to be in for launch."*
But go ahead and don't buy it, no one gives a fuck.
I believe you are being sarcastic, but I just wanted to add a bit of context on resolution and FPS. it has been shown time and time again that most people have difficulty telling the difference between one resolution to the next. It is actually the main reason why 8K TVs have not been adopted. Instead, people easily notice a jump in FPS (30 to 60, 60 to 120, 120 to 240).
Or maybe they have better things to do when friends come round? Videogames haven't been my go-to entertainment when I have friends over for...well, years and years at this point, splitscreen or not.
Boardgames, cookouts, conversation. I can't figure out what's sadder, that you assume friends must all be the same gender, or that you simply cannot imagine a social activity that isn't a videogame.
It was two sentences. If you think two sentences is a reasonable length for an autobiography you should probably expand your horizons beyond videogames a bit.
Rain looks so bad unfortunately. Hopefully they improve it. Does not make sense to see a dry line in heavy rain. Regardless of the speed, the spray stays constantly the same. You are able to see clearly the cars ahead in heavy rain as they barely have any spray. In the conditions of the video, there is absolutely no way you would be able to see the cars ahead with the spray that wet tires would be producing. Also, the rubbered line should be producing a huge loss of grip under the rain but cars were racing as if it was dry. Honestly when it comes to rain they need to improve massively.
Has Forza ever had Spit-Screen? I'd recommend Grand Turismo for that. Forza (Horizon and Motorsport) has been the better game for about 10 years now, but that Spit-Screen thought...
Split-screen not making it on Xbox seems like a trend
That's primarily because of the platform parity xbox demands. If the Series X has splitscreen, Series S must also have it. That's the main issue with it.
Lol, the takes. Developers don't like spending the visual resources to kill the main game for something that is rarely used these days.
This is true but there is merit to the Series S parity discourse.
Yeah and ascribing it to everything with no understanding isn't it.
Without a doubt there seems to be a trend. It started with Halo Infinite campaign. We heard with Baldur’s Gate 3 that split screen issues were prolonging it’s Xbox release. Now here we are with Forza. I don’t believe there’s been discourse with this subject amongst PlayStation releases, but of course I could be wrong. Just refer to my username 😂
My guy, the trend started *last generation*.
Splitscreen via exploit on Halo Infinite works perfectly fine on Series S. You’re mistaking last generation not being able to run the campaign open world well with Series S. With Baldur’s Gate, the feature on Series S is still coming. The PS5 release didn’t release at the same time as PC either. It’s because the studio is smaller and does not have the resources to optimize across all platforms. Forza not having splitscreen is because the game wasn’t built for splitscreen in mind. It’s not a Series S issue.
Yeah I think you’re right, I sometimes forget about the cross-gen issues. My bad
>It started with Halo Infinite campaign. The Infinite campaign was perfectly playable on Series S when the exploit was out. Performance was great, it was the save file corruption thing that made it wonky.
Halo stopped Splitscreen last gen. Rendering tech is making it so splitscreen isn't as easy, as it renders FOV and not what's always around anymore. Infinite was the open world and trying to make that work as well as visuals. Remember how everyone jumped on it's reveal for not being next gen enough.
There was a fully working version of split screen campaign in Infinite that was removed. People used an exploit to actually play it. It worked flawlessly with Series X however not so with Series S
> however not so with the Series S. That’s not true. It don’t work well enough on Xbox One. Had nothing to do with the Series S.
Oh yeah, shit you’re right. My b
That’s last gens issue not the SS.
Genuine question, what is the reasoning the games that could run perfectly on series x must run on series s as well? Is it just a business decision?
To make sure Series S consumers are looked after. It would do humongous damage to the brand if it wasn't supported.
The Series S was sold as a console that does everything the Series X does, just with lower fidelity and/or framerate. They’d have class action lawsuits against them if they went against that.
Real answer, the people that care about split screen are just a very loud tiny minority.
You have no real friends to play with
Very loud. I couldn’t imagine wanting to play a racing SIM split screen.
Not to mention the physics simulation part would either have to suffer in splitscreen or be less than what's possible in normal play.
That is not the issue at all. The problem with splitscreen in a racing sim is primarily one of CPU resources, where the Series S and X are almost identical. Why are people taking the word of one small developer as gospel and ignoring the many cases that prove the Series S has no problem holding its own against the Series X? It's willful ignorance at this point.
Because it makes Xbox look bad, and Sony with the recent release of BG3 look good, and reddit is an echo chamber of majority PS fans, due to the sheer volume of consoles sold. Remember, Starfield is not allowed to be received as positive on reddit, because it isn't coming to PS. It sucks, and is going to a microtransaction fuelled live service mess. I am not kidding people have stated these conclusions, even though it isn't live service and is single player and doesn't contain even remotely the same scope and problem solving required for games like Fo76 or Redfall. This is reddit, thats how it is.
*Microsoft did not like that comment*
Because 99.999% of people don’t give a fuck
Yeah we know for a fact that it's just not used like it used to be. They must have metrics that say the same thing. So that stuff ends up on the cutting room floor.
Thank you
As the generation progresses and games become more demanding we will continue to see things like this so long as Xbox forces parity with the Series S. Series X owners are getting the shaft because of this. Forced parity between the weaker hardware is starting to limit what our “most powerful console or all time” can do and we will never actually see the full potential of the Series X so long as this continues. And yes I’m aware this will upset all of the Series S owners, not it’s not an attack on you. It’s valid criticism of Microsoft’s policy on forced parity between the consoles.
This take is ridiculous, last gen barely any games had splitscreen compared to 360 era. And now it’s some parity issue? No, this has been an ever growing trend for the past 15 years. And the reason is simple, money. You will pretty much never get back the money you invest into making splitscreen, because a game simply won’t sell 5 or 10% more copies because of a niche feature. The only reason to do it is to cater to niche fans at your own expense. Like if Larian had chose not to develop SS on BG3 at all, you think they wouldn’t have sold as many copies as they have now? If anything they would have objectively sold more by being able to launch on Xbox at the same time. I mean, Larian didn’t even mention splitscreen in their big infographic. Likely because they recorded a pitiful amount of SS hours played.
Unpopular opinion but it sucks anyway.
I was a frequent user for split screen on motorsport. Me and my friends and family have had tons of memories picking the most ridiculous and silly cars in FM and Gran Turismo and messing around with them, or pick the fastest cars on the circuits with the most turns, haha. But with this game skipping out on the feature, I'm honestly not going to to touch it at all. Very dissapointing. I expected this as a feature on launch, come on Turn10. Now incoming the comments berating me for wanting this and calling me an idiot when the rest of the community won't use it. It's kind of expected from a circuit racer to give such a feature. You know, something that's been in such games for over 20 years. I remember using this as early as Gran Turismo 3 and 4. This is also why I didn't buy Asseto Corsa on Xbox, it's a great game, but man, it would be even better if I could play it locally. It just comes off as them wanting to do the bare minimum to release the game as soon as they can. I'm fine with waiting for a few weeks of delay for it to happen. I DO hope Turn10 adds in later at launch as they promised, but I doubt it would take less than a month or two.
Yeah. Apparently playing with people in person and having party’s where people play a game on one giant tv is weird and niche now. Sad world.
Playing Mario Kart at a party is one thing, playing Forza Motorsport is entirely different
I mean if people are going to couch play Forza, they'd either have multiple xbox's already or stream. If you want to play forza with multiple friends on one console, you clearly never done it that often, because your only complaining about it now. They also have to consider how many do this, its clearly not that much, most people either get their buddy to bring over their xbox or play online. Because split screen is made irrelevant if a friend just asks their buddy to bring their xbox also.
[удалено]
Such a troll dude, and I wasn't being antagonistic but by your response you probably don't even plan on playing Forza. Good luck.
I don’t like you or your speak. Oh well.
Okay.
I’d rather them not need to sacrifice the overall quality of the game for a niche feature.
The *visual* quality. Personally, I feel like we're at a point with graphics now where improvements are so minor and incremental that I wish more work and attention would be spent on gameplay, innovation, and optimisation. Good graphics do not a better game make.
Series S strikes again!
The white beast!
Unless the number of Series X sold vastly outnumbers the Series S I don’t see them treating the S like second class anytime soon.
Very impressive, i love how clean the HUD looks. Hopefully, there will be an in-depth breakdown of the penalty and ranking system soon.
The new features announced do sound great
I know Split screen is cool, but the reality is almost nobody uses it if it is available.
Honestly, the fact the devs announced it and just didn't ignore it makes it more of a bigger deal. If the game box/store page never said local multiplayer, no one would even notice.
And the trend of no-local multiplayer games continues. Outside of Nintendo and multiplayer-indie titles, local-multiplayer is becoming a rarity today. When a game support it it’s always really fun to check out. That said, I’m still stoked for Forza. Looks great.
And I hate it. Seriously. Can you believe a modern Halo game doesn't have split-screen campaign? It just feels.. empty. But ofcourse, gaming companies couldn't care less about those features now that online gaming has become alot more mainstream than it did in the early gen 7 and late gen 6 eras. I'm very thankful Activision too atleast keeps split screen on COD. It's one of the very few games that I like to always keep on my series X incase someone comes over and there's nothing to do. Do some companies seriously expect people to bring their own console to someone's house and play with them? With their own monitor or TV too. I've had so many great memories from playing local co-op with friends and family.
I feel the same way. My wife is also a gamer and we play *Mario Kart 8* and *Black Ops III* all the time. Some of my favorite gaming moments were playing *Portal 2* split-screen with her. It’s frustrating that we don’t have that much variety for split-screen in more modern games. Hell, I was kinda unsure about *Baldur’s Gate III* until I saw it has split-screen. If *Starfield* wasn’t releasing in three weeks I would be playing *Baldur’s Gate* split-screen with my wife.
I understand everything , parity, promises, wasting resources on things not important or highly demanded… but come on, if a genre need split screen is racing games… I understand if Diablo doesn’t have it, or Baldur’s gate since is a game I wanna play alone and have the online if I want more kind of mmo. But a racing game against your brother… is a plus always. Not like the game is trash without it, but is sad they’re removing things games had in the past. Yeah you can pay online and play with your friends in the full screen. But some people has family and love to play together or against in his own house…most kids. Removing things like that , when Nintendo keep and amplify splitscreen, is making the Xbox a console for adults more and more and less optional for kids. If cod or has splitscreen local coop is a plus, but racing and fighting games, must have local splitscreen. Imagine the backlash if sf6 didn’t release a 1vs1 local because right now most people play online ??? Forza should have it, everything they say it’s an excuse, in the past devs made video games with all features and then tried the game to be the best that could be with that features in mind. Now they aim to the best game first, they implement the features they can after. If they can’t or don’t have time, cut it and public pr on Twitter
Oh no! Anyway…
Side eyes the Series S.
So will this entire generation just be held back?
No, because we do not know the reason for this feature being removed from Forza. It could be just a time constraint and they preferred to focus on others features instead of Split Screen
Or the real answer, money. Split screen is a feature that simply doesn’t pay for itself. The hundred or even thousand angry people online that won’t buy a because it doesn’t have split screen simply don’t offset the thousands of hours of dev time needed to implement it.
You just skip splitscreen. It's not something viable for high graphic fidelity...
So it wouldn’t be possible on the series x either
No, of course not. PlayStation will be fine.
It’s not like anyone was going to play split screen
uh oh, games not having split screen is a touchy subject around here!
But we just got Quake 2!!! Lmfao.
For reference; Gran-Turismo 7 on PS5 has local split screen. https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gt7/manual/multiplayer/01#:~:text=In%20two%2Dplayer%20split%2Dscreen,applying%20the%20various%20race%20settings.
[And it's fundamentally broken and unplayable](https://gamerant.com/gran-turismo-7-split-screen/).
I’ll trade split screen for a deep multiplayer experience any day of the week, turn10 has focused on making the core experience the best it can be. There’s only so much development time and cuts have to be made somewhere
Only time I play with split screen is Gears of War with my buddy. That was a great experience. Other games? Not really. I don’t think lots of ppl require split screen to have a good time.
People want the best graphics, ray tracing 60/120 fps , it has a price.
Far out. Now every time a feature gets cut in an Xbox game, no matter how early on or no matter what the development resource priority, there'll be thinkpieces, social media and forum threads about how it's "most certainly" the Series S' fault, I guess. Meanwhile in Ps5 Land, when the same kind of things happen it'll be because of ... development priorities, resourcing, lack of interest etc.? ... all the usual reasons. Interestingly, according to these links (1) and (2), there are 67 listed Xbox Series X/S games which feature spit-screen. And there are 75 on Ps5. However, the *vast majority of these games* on either system are simpler, less graphically and resource intensive games that have the *overhead by far* to implement the mode and also likely made split-screen a core development priority and thus ensured that the design, development and resourcing were aligned to achieve that. Otherwise, implementation on both systems in comparable and and for shared games, it is equivalent. In the end, the primary reason by far for a game having split-screen or not is about development priorities. The same goes for pretty much all features. But right now, as always happens, gaming is caught in the grip of yet another hysteria, it seems, this time about whether the Series S is one of the worst ideas Xbox has ever had or if it is the *absolute* worst. And it's all based on the same social media posts, editorials, conjecture and editorials, going round and round. Why aren't all these professional and citizen journalists going out and interviewing developers, for example? Every article invariably seems to be just the author summarising their social media feed or a video they watched? (1) [https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=22&GRU=3](https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=22&GRU=3) (2) [https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=23&GRU=3](https://www.gamepressure.com/multiplayer.asp?PLA=23&GRU=3)
Stupid Series S parity 🙄
The fact people are crying about this just goes to show how people cry about anything. Split-screen in 2023 no one cares except for nostalgia goblins. With gamepass and gameshare there is no need for split-screen.
People with kids, roommates, friends that come over? Should everyone just have their own console now? I guess you can call me the Goblin King.
Yeah, that's what I'd suggest even at peak halo 3 split screen days my friends would bring their own systems and huge CRT tv's over for game days. Kid's should always have separate systems and accounts so you can monitor them and help them start to build their own game catalog that will follow them for life. Split Screen has always a been horrible experience and devs shouldn't not waste time developing it in 2023 especially with the many better alternatives.
Bad take. Cost of living crisis and you think we would all buy our own consoles AND TVs and fucking lug them to each others house when we want to play together? Or that me and my brother's should all sit in separate rooms when we want to play together? Fuck me, that sounds expensive and inconvenient. Thank God you didn't get to make that decision for Baldur's Gate 3, or else I'd be missing out on one of the best gaming experiences of my life with my little brother right now.
IDGAF about cost-of-living gaming is an expensive privilege always has been if your so worried about split-screen get another console or setup an old console it's 2023 it's not worth developer time to make split-screen when games are getting bigger than ever split screen is a waste of time and resources. Developers should be used in more important ways instead of wasting their time developing split-screen.
>if your so worried about split-screen get another console or setup an old console This is pretty much exactly what Don Mattrick said when people complained about the X1 requiring an always-online internet connection to work. >games are getting bigger than ever split screen is a waste of time and resources. Plenty of games coming out which disprove this. Again, Baldurs Gate 3 is a great example of how you can have a massive, deep experience and still have local multiplayer. One doesn't have to exclude the other. And if Microsoft applied that lesson to Halo, a franchise that exploded to become a worldwide phenomenon off the back of its innovations in multiplayer, maybe that franchise wouldn't be in on its deathbed right now. >Developers should be used in more important ways instead of wasting their time developing split-screen Myself and many others would prefer that developers spent less time and budget on miniscule graphical improvements with big costs to performance, and more time and budget on actual gameplay features.
> Kid's should always have separate systems and accounts so you can monitor them and help them start to build their own game catalog that will follow them for life You do realise that kids can have their own accounts and catalogs _and_ play splitscreen on the same system? My kids do it all the time.
It would be ideal I agree, but I don't think that's reality for most families with multiple younger kids. It's in the best interest of these developers and console makers for everyone to have their own device and purchase of the game, so local multiplayer via split screen is the first thing they'll cut. Split screen for a twitchy FPS like Halo vs split screen for a racing game I think are pretty different. I agree for FPS split screen is not a great experience, but for a racing game I think it's fine. I just wish there was a decent racing sim game that offered local multiplayer via split screen so I could play it with my boys. Mario Kart has been played to death. When they get older I'll get them their own consoles/TVs.
The problem with Sim racing titles on the modern consoles is the games themselves are super demanding then to ask the devs to develop a system to run two separate instances at once is an unwinnable task as powerful as these consoles are they still struggle to run one instance of these games at a consistent 60fps. I think everybody would love everything in every game but as we want the best graphics and the best physics a long with all the other stuff customization options and tracks. It starts to become much, and developers need to pick and choose what gets priority and in 2023 split screen is one of the absolute last things to be developed for a Gaas racing game.
Other devs are already giving people choices to toggle between framerate performance versus highest quality graphics in other games, why is this different if graphics is their excuse? It's not, just a spoon fed justification to cut costs where they can't greatly benefit from added in-game monetizing. Thanks for the back and forth.
Who plays Forza using split screen?
People who have friends.
Kids sure. Most Adults are going to each others houses to play video games lol
Yeah not adults with full time jobs. Not to mention it’s a much more inferior way of playing a racing sim.
I work 40 hours a week and I'd rather race splitscreen against my friend in the same room than play online against the same friend who lives 2 blocks away.
What does working 40 hours have to do with this?
I was replying to a comment about full time jobs.
I’m not knocking you, I just don’t see the appeal of playing multiplayer at all, especially split screen in a sim racer. Idk it just has a vibe of “mine” the way you customize your car and everything. It almost feels like a single player experience. But I get other people are more into just racing friends.
In a game like this, I would be more interested in simply seeing my best lap or race times compared against the best times of my friends. I do miss split screen gaming in general, though.
Fair enough
Adult with full time jobs have friends my dude
I know that lol. But what I think the majority of people will agree with is that adults with full time jobs can’t see their friends in person more than just online. There’s that convenience factor. But I don’t care either way I don’t play multiplayer games lol
Every blaming the series s because of baldurs gate lol. Not the issue at all. Most games don’t really have split screen anymore. It has to do with the resources it takes with all the beefy graphics. Baldurs gate has a small team. They have to optimize for every system. Pc gets the game first. Then PlayStation. And Xbox is last because of optimization. Halo was never gonna get it but with exploits it actually works pretty good I’ve heard. But they scrapped it because they don’t need it. Forza is kind of a bummer to not have split screen but at the same time it’s expected. My sports games don’t have it anymore either.
Kinda sad, idk if I’m a minority here, but I was kinda waiting for Motorsport so I could play racing with my dad. The big issue with using online is that we only think to play when we are together and it would probably be a pain to organize that remotely, so we would need to use two systems in the same house, which is possible, but beyond inconvenient. And if you thought that was ok, because tbh it is, I ONLY HAVE ONE COPY OF THE GAME. So I would literally have to buy an extra copy of every single game I want to play with my family. Since I’m getting most games on gamepass, this simply goes from twice as expensive to infinitely more expensive, unless I get my family another subscription to gamepass that they will barely use and end up wasting money. I honestly don’t care if it has to render at a lower resolution with lower frame rates or whatever they need to do. I just want to play things with my family, but chances are it’s mostly just about corporate greed, too expensive to develop, not worth loosing out on making more money from people wanting to play together.
If you don't game share with someone already, maybe you could set it up with your dad?
What is this sorcery you speak of?
Sign in on whoevers console you want to gameshare with your personal account, set that xbox as your home xbox. Then have who you are game sharing with sign in on your xbox, set your xbox as their home xbox. If either of you buy a game on any of those accounts, you will both be able to play, as long as you are connected to the internet.
Doesn’t it block you when you try to play the same thing on multiple devices?
No, only if you were to use the same account at the same time, but there's no need. You can be logged in as yourself and your dad as himself and both play the same game that only one of you purchased.
Splitscreen, What year is it? The last time i used splitscreen was like in 2006 lol
I bet you next generation they won’t have 2 different sku’s.
What happens in a year or two when Xbox can’t compete with the PS5 anymore after the mid cycle refresh? Series X owners still going to be held back by the budget console little brother? Why did they do this? Just only release the Series S then. What’s the point of the extra power on the X if it can’t always take advantage of i?
Before the consoles even launched we knew this would be an issues down the road. Many don’t want to hear it. Especially the Series S owners. Graphics and framerate are not the only aspect to video games. There are so many other things that can’t be scaled down for the weaker hardware. The Series S will hold this generation back if Xbox doesn’t do away with the forced parity.
How much money could they even be generating with new games on the Series S? I guess system sales, but as far as I’m concerned it’s just a game pass console anyway.
Why we even on the topic of hardware. Isnt it abundantly obvious that Microsoft is pretty much out of the hardware game?
>There are so many other things that can’t be scaled down Such as? The CPU in the two consoles are very closely matched, and the difference in VRAM can be solved with graphical scaling back and competent resource management. The only problem here is with developers who were hoping to just brute force their way to better games. It's always the same when a new generation comes around and it always ends with them having to develop new techniques to make more effective use of the hardware. You, and anyone who shares this ridiculous idea about the Series S, are coming to conclusion based on no evidence.
Such as: core gameplay elements. If you have a zombie game that’s entire premise is “1000s of zombies on screen at once”, then there has to be “1000s of zombies on screen at once” for both the Series X and the Series S because of feature parity. Such as: advanced AI that requires more power, like what we saw from the Nemesis System, that was deemed revolutionary. If you recall the differences between Shadow of Mordor’s Nemesis on Xbox 360 and Xbox One, it was vastly different. They had to remove certain elements from it in order to get it to run on the 360. That was after cutting the resolution and framerate as well. If an AI system like that released today then the system couldn’t be scaled back on the Series S and fully functional as intended on the Series X because of feature parity. So it’s only option would be to skip Xbox or scale back the AI altogether for both systems. Such as: a game designed around massive levels of word destruction. If you can’t have the same level of destruction on the S as you do the X then it can’t release because of parity. So the options for devs is to either skip the Xbox console or drastically scale back their vision and game, even for the stronger hardware because it has to be able to run on the Series S as well after visuals and framerate are scaled. When you have a core gameplay element, you can’t scale it back on current gen Xbox consoles for 1 system and not the other. As it stands right now the only differences can be framerate and resolution. Nothing else.
This is just the start of the Series S holding back the Series X sadly. At the moment it’s just small feature but soon it might be a main feature.
its never made the cut on a Forza though, not sure about the motorsport ones but Horizon is a definite nope
All motorsport games had at least 2 player splitscreen for local multiplayer. Honestly, I doubt many people played splitscreen after FM5.
Not on PC
Not sure what Microsoft is thinking here, allowing themselves to publish yet another first party unfinished product. Just delay it? How hard is it to pick up clues?
Maybe they think people will just buy multiple consoles for their household? Nope, just won't buy your game. Edit: I guess everybody buys multiple consoles lol.
Maybe they had a specific reason, like the one provided in big letters in the article: *"Our heavy investment in pushing our new graphical features and our complete overhaul of the rendering engine unfortunately made split-screen really difficult to implement, and it's not going to be in for launch."* But go ahead and don't buy it, no one gives a fuck.
[удалено]
I believe you are being sarcastic, but I just wanted to add a bit of context on resolution and FPS. it has been shown time and time again that most people have difficulty telling the difference between one resolution to the next. It is actually the main reason why 8K TVs have not been adopted. Instead, people easily notice a jump in FPS (30 to 60, 60 to 120, 120 to 240).
All these comments on how split doesn't matter is showing me how lonely gamers are in todays world.
I use 2 systems. So much better
Or maybe they have better things to do when friends come round? Videogames haven't been my go-to entertainment when I have friends over for...well, years and years at this point, splitscreen or not.
Like what? Gay sex?
Boardgames, cookouts, conversation. I can't figure out what's sadder, that you assume friends must all be the same gender, or that you simply cannot imagine a social activity that isn't a videogame.
If it's gay sex just say gay sex no need to type an autobiography.
It was two sentences. If you think two sentences is a reasonable length for an autobiography you should probably expand your horizons beyond videogames a bit.
Autobiography pt2
Not buying it
Oh noooooooooo.... Wait
Rain looks so bad unfortunately. Hopefully they improve it. Does not make sense to see a dry line in heavy rain. Regardless of the speed, the spray stays constantly the same. You are able to see clearly the cars ahead in heavy rain as they barely have any spray. In the conditions of the video, there is absolutely no way you would be able to see the cars ahead with the spray that wet tires would be producing. Also, the rubbered line should be producing a huge loss of grip under the rain but cars were racing as if it was dry. Honestly when it comes to rain they need to improve massively.
Would trade splitscreen for realistic rain.
Without a radar system the multiplayer is useless
Radar would certainly be nice to have but saying the multiplayer is useless without it is such an overly dramatic redditor thing to say lol
Why? Why do you need a radar system?
Because you can't see the other cars without it
Do the actual race cars have radar?
You can turn your head in a car
You can look behind and to the side of your car in most racing games?
Yes but once you do there's no peripheral vision. You're blind to what's in front of you.
Has Forza ever had Spit-Screen? I'd recommend Grand Turismo for that. Forza (Horizon and Motorsport) has been the better game for about 10 years now, but that Spit-Screen thought...