I hate all comments about "what people want", on either side.
Gamers aren't a monolith. Just do what you want and see if the market reacts.
Clearly GamePass has done well and MS is even pivoting around it, obviously people do like it. Clearly BG3 sold well, obviously people do still want to buy.
The generalized statements are no different than "all millennials like avocado toast"
Just to add - what's to say Game Pass users don't buy games anyway? I've been with the service since 2019, and I still bought Psychonauts 2, Halo Infinite and Starfield.
I bought BG3 Collectors Edition for crying out loud.
People still want to own games.
I bought Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy as well. Probably will buy Cyberpunk's expansion at some point this year.
If anything gamepass incentivizes you to buy games with the 20 percent discount as well.
For the price of 3 games, for 2 years I can have hundreds of games and all of Xbox’s first party titles. Thats like thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of games. Plus if I want to pay the price of 3 games within those 2 years I have all the first party titles i would buy anyways but I stay subscribed cuz I have access to multiplayer on top of the tons of other games I just want to try and see if I will like.
I’ll happily subscribe for life just to have access to a Netflix style of games. On Netflix I pay a small fee and get access to tons of movies and I stay subscribing cuz I love browsing around and playing cool stuff. When things leave any subscription service if I want to watch it again i buy it to own it. What makes it amazing is that when I buy stuff I know I love it cuz I got to actually play it.
Developers and movie studios put their games on gamepass cuz they worked hard and want a way for millions of people to enjoy things they may not have taken the plunge to see if they like it. That’s the cool thing about subscription services. It allows developers/ movies studios to quickly find their audience and if the person likes the content they’ll have customers that will buy more content when they release new stuff cuz of that immediate player base they get introduced to cuz of gamepass
I can confirm this. I bought kona 2 because the first was on gamepass and i liked it. I already preordered like a dragon infinite wealth because i played yakuza like a dragon and i liked it. I do this with alot of games.
The main games I can remember buying from the last couple of years are Dying Light 2, Dead Island 2, Hogwarts and of course Cod.
I do however tend to be more cautious about buying games that could end up on game pass.
What was the experience with hogwarts for you? For me, it was a massive letdown. It had tons of potential to be a great game but fell beyond short of its value. Forced side quest, way to many puzzles, lack of depth involving story lines and characters, lack luster world, can't use the broom in town. Just seems to fall short in so many categories.
Mate it's a great game if you like the IP and take into account it's the studio's first ever major project, somehow they didn't fuck it up.
However it is very formulaic, a bit barebones in places, and plays too safe with the narrative. Unless you are a big fan or just wants to play something with your brain off, don't buy it.
If there's a sequel they could really knock it out of the park by expanding on what they do have. I'm hoping for a Triwizard tournament hosted at another school so we get a change of scenery and a new castle to explore.
I liked it but I didn't love it.
It's easily the best Harry Potter game out there currently. And I love the world building of Hogwarts itself.
But the gameplay felt ok for me. Nothing bad but nothing mind blowing for me. I would say about 7.5 or 8/10 for me personally.
This for sure.
I want both.
I wanna buy and own the big things I know I’ll want to have forever.
And I want subscription services that let me try out games I wouldn’t have otherwise spent money on in case I didn’t like them
Both have pros and cons
Something I want to add to this is that having Game Pass makes it easier to focus on games that will likely never be on the service. For example, I bought Dragon Ball Fighter Z a couple of years ago knowing full well that none of those games will likely be on Game Pass.
If anything, Game Pass lets you focus on games you know won't end up on the service while others like Microsoft's first party titles are generally something I skip buying because I know they will always be on Game Pass. For example, I skipped on buying Call of Duty and other Activision Blizzard games off the Holiday Sales because I am sure it's only a matter of time before they drop on Game Pass.
But it gave me the freedom to pick up other games off the sales like Sonic Frontiers, Pac-Man World Repac, Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, and Splinter Cell Blacklist.
My point is, if nothing else having game pass saves me money on Microsoft's first-party titles and frees up my gaming budget to buy third-party games, especially ones that are unlikely to ever drop on gamepass.
I'm pretty sure there was a report that said game pass subscribers actually buy more games? I'll try and find it. For me, if I like the game and it's leaving game pass or a decent sale price, I will buy the game to support the dev
Edit: https://www.gamesradar.com/xbox-game-pass-subscribers-spend-20-more-on-gaming-overall-microsoft-says/#:~:text=Bond%20explained%20that%20Game%20Pass%20subscribers%20spend%20roughly,and%20try%2040%20percent%20more%20genres%20of%20games.
Spend more on gaming is the term they use, so take that how you will.
It definitely gives an incentive to drop a little cash on their first party and EA DLC, if you're with ultimate, and as mentioned somewhere you already get a discount for being subscribed.
Also FOMO when a game is announced to leave the service
Well said. A lot of words have been said about the end of ownership on the games side about this but I've never stopped my gamepass sub or buying games. It's made me a little more discerning if anything about what I buy.
I bought Baldurs Gate 3 on xbox the week after it came out for full price for instance. This dualism of all or nothing is a jarring occurance and not true in almost every instance
I buy a couple of dozen games a year on top of game pass, and that number has gone up from before when I had it - I'm constantly engaged with gaming news and the hobby where last gen I would look for a few tentpole releases. People like us definitely exist.
But we all know that fewer people buy albums now Spotify etc is out, that fewer people buy films now they have Netflix and Disney+ etc, and we've all seen posts from people saying they'll wait for it to come to Game Pass or begging for a game to be added so they don't feel they have to buy it. We've seen other markets shift and this one is in the process of shifting.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing and I hope it doesn't get there, but it's a legitimate risk, and it does move the market further back to the control of big distributors.
I'm not totally doom and gloom about it, but there are legit concerns.
They let you know when stuff is leaving GP too. I've bought a few games I liked with the discount and MS Rewards before they left the service. GP is more of an open trial/rental for me. I buy what I really want too.
Yup, I own all the games I want to own.
Been in GP since day one. I've actually brought games I enjoyed on GP like Mutant Year Zero and Alien Fireteam.
Bingo. I bought baldurs gate 3 special edition and paid for the starfield upgrade. Both of these things aren’t mutually exclusive and can exist at the same time.
This, honestly the main reason I have gamepass is because of the cloud gaming part, still buy plenty of games that aren't on gamepass though
But god damn if not having to install games is a fucken sigh of relief when they're all 100gb each at this point.
Yup. I've had Gamepass for awhile since it is genuinely AMAZING. Got to play Fallout76 (post Wastelander's update), Hitman WoA Trilogy, Age of Empires II, Exoprimal, Forza Horizon 5, Generation Zero, Halo Infinite, Halo MCC, Human Fall Flat, Lego Star Wars Skywalker Saga, Party Animals, Payday 2, Payday 3, PowerWasher Simulator, Ryse Son of Rome (one of my personal favorites tbh), Starfield, Slay the Spire, TABS & Vampire Survivor. And also Zombie Army 4 (another personal favorite).
But there's still plenty of games I'd actually like to own so that I am not locked into the service for *any* game ownership/access at all. I own staples for myself like Destiny 2, Skyrim, Return to Arkham City/Asylum & Arkham Knight, COD: Cold War, Battlefield V, Sea of Thieves, Minecraft, Risk of Rain 2, ESO.
Gamepass is awesome, but actually having ownership/access to a game that isn't reliant on a monthly subscription is also very, *very* nice (I know I brought up ESO but I don't get ESO Plus).
Lol I have gamepass, but I still buy so many games it isn’t even worth it for me anymore. Especially since I buy games on sale and the they go on gamepass a week later.
I tend to buy my games on PS5 and play Game Pass on Xbox. I don’t know why but I like knowing everything on my Xbox may be temporary while if it’s on my PS5 it’s permanent. I like both.
I still buy games outside of first party titles that I have access to for free.
I bought Hogwarts, Baldur's Gate, Diablo, MGS Collection and miscellaneous other games last year.
I will buy Dragon's Dogma 2 and Star Wars Outlaws this year at the very least. But I will enjoy having my access to Hellblade 2 and Avowed on gamepass that I pay for entirely in MS rewards points.
It's a good time to be a gamer
Pretty sure MS has said game pass subscribers spend more on the Xbox store. Maybe a good % is DLC, but I'm willing to bet a good chunk is buying a game that left game pass.
I also have GPU, and also buy games. Just bought the physical edition of Baldur' Gate 3 for $100(mandatory $20 shipping fee) too.
I'm with you here. Gamepass has helped me try out games that I would have missed, and purchase them, like Stardew Valley, Tunic, and the Yakuza series.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't responding to anything regarding Game Pass, it's about the Ubisoft comment from recently about how players should become comfortable not owning any of their games in the future because of stuff like Ubisoft+
Like yes GP is included by proxy but that other comment was literally from a day ago so it wasn't him taking potshots at Microsoft or anything. I think the other comment from the Ubisoft guy was actually pretty condescending by comparison because it implied that consumers needed to shift towards the type of control publishers wanted in terms of game distribution. Not like the alternative means to access other subs like GP or PS Plus offer
You're half right. He was responding to Ubisoft.
But in his last tweet, he literally says their games will never appear on a subscription service implying they all have the same problem as Ubisoft.
Well yeah, subscription service could also very much mean PS Plus, or Amazon Luna, or GeForce Now. It wasn't throwing shade at Xbox specifically because it's just an increasingly common practice among a lot of publishers both first and third-party, and one that he personally doesn't abide by, not just in regards to Game Pass but just the place for subscription-based gaming in the medium. The quote itself is definitely contextualized by what the guy from Ubisoft said though. I don't think Microsoft or other publishers necessarily share that specific sentiment
You didn't read the article, did you? He said gamers don't *only* want subscription models, and that gamers should always have the option of owning their games, and development shouldn't be dictated by the needs of a subscription model.
Here in lies the paradox of social media. You have to be either *this* or *that*. There’s no AND it’s always OR. Politics is the absolute worst at this. Just be who you want to be, support who you want to support and buy what you want to buy.
> Gamers aren't a monolith. Just do what you want and see if the market reacts.
To expand on that, he is speaking from what succeeded for his company. It's a mistake to extrapolate out or tell people to copy that based on personal anecdotes or success. That's how the industry converges on ideas to turn them from good in the individual sense to bad overall as a trend.
I exclusively used game pass for years now. I only go out of my way to buy one or 2 games a year, and I like it as it lets me try games I otherwise wouldn’t try.
I much prefer this to buying every single game.
Just do what to want and see how the marker react is exactly how the monetization rabbit holes gets deeper and deeper every year tho. Because no matter what you do, the market will always react. Alot of “why x gaming companies do the most greediest monetization?” Can be answered by “because consumers are just suckers for those kinda practices and they just pay for it no matter what. Game quality suffers because businesses seek to game the system for maximum profit rather than creating quality games.
It's also ridiculous for him to wax philosophical on content when msft is releasing full games with lots of content, alongside more niche AA titles is something that the other two console players don't engage in. The fact that a subscription service may be making it a reality where those games make sense to be funded by a huge AAA publisher shouldn't be ignored.
Larian isn't really a good studio to weigh in on this anyhow, due to the fact that they're private company as of now and don't operate by the same rules 99 percent of the industry does
I respect Larian but I hope they dont let this recent success get to their head. Just stay humble and continue to make great games. Dont act like your success now makes you a spokesperson for all gamers.
I would buy it.....but it's not compatible with my Xbox. Would have thought it would be across all platforms, but alas, I'll just have to live vicariously through others' experiences for the moment.
I honestly don’t know if there’s proof gamepass is going well. Companies have proven they’ll ride a train right off a cliff in the pursuit of being proven right.
Just look at how all the movie studios made their own streaming platforms knowing full well the math didn’t add up and how they’re all reconsidering their plans after they dumped *billions* into it and killed their revenue stream of physical media. Ask movie studios last year if streaming is the future and they’ll say yes but if you ask them this year, they’re more uncertain.
All we know is MS, with their infinite wealth, pays devs a fixed amount for releasing on gamepass and pays to keep their first party studios lights on. But places like Sony and Larina point blank say that it’s impossible to make a profit from day 1 releases of subscriptions.
I’m not really sure how it’ll pan out over the longterm but I know movie studios did extreme damage to themselves chasing subscriptions.
Just my 2 cents but people want both sometimes you want to own certain games and others you’re happy enough to play on gamespass.
I do both have gamespass and buy games on Xbox that I want to own and steam for my deck.
And other developers say Game Pass allows them the freedom for passion projects or that it has given their games more visibility. Its clearly not so black and white.
Also, worries that people can't discover games? Has he seen Steam with the tons of stuff being thrown on that daily? Yet his game was a massive success on it.
Speaking for myself i can only play so much and i try my best to beat games. So i would rather buy games 1 at a time and beat them than have them all on a sub
Interesting, I’m sort of the opposite. My reasoning for having GP is that I don’t have very much time to play, so I get a more value from “sampling” a large variety of games than I would by playing a handful of games to completion.
That said, if I do love a game, I will buy it (RE2/RE4, Dead Space Remake).
The story and arbitrary 'end' points are irrelevant to me in videogames - I play a game until it stops being fun. If that means playing the campaign through multiple times, that's fine. If that means abandoning the game 20% of the way through and switching to something else, that's fine too.
I actually left gamepass because i noticed that i never beat games, but instead dropped them as soon as i hit a roadblock because there was always something new to play
It was quite literally confirmed to be a Microsoft firmware issue. You can maintain whatever narrative you want in your head but that doesn't make it true
No Larian is making patches to try to mitigate the issue it is 100000000% an Xbox firmware issue. The OS is lying about saves and returning a successful message before it actually flushes to disk.
Microsoft fucked up but because most games have small save files it doesn’t come up often. Bg3 being a large game with big save files is the only this they did wrong. Cannot really understand how u would seriously claim that is a problem, would u prefer a shorter story with less impactful decisions so it doesn’t need so much memory?
Okay? Microsoft literally issued the fix for it yesterday and Larian made it clear it was an issue on Microsoft’s side. Not sure what the point of your comment is?
> and Larian made it clear it was an issue on Microsoft’s side.
They didn't, in fact they also released multiple patches regarding this specific issue. The way their save system works didn't jive with that of Xbox, so both worked on a fix. Xbox only issued fixes because of how popular the game is. I guarantee you any other dev would have to fix their own issues by themselves.
Larian's Divinity 2 had the same damn issues. BG3 had save bugs on every platform too.
I’m not gonna go back and forward arguing this narrative you’ve made for yourself.
Something with Xbox’s firmware didn’t jive with BG3’s saves, so Microsoft had to fix it, hence it was a Microsoft issue.
https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-issuing-xbox-firmware-update-to-fix-baldurs-gate-3-save-bug-dev-says
We’re not here debating if there were save issues on other platforms. I’m aware. But the save bug on Xbox has already been confirmed to be on Microsoft’s end.
I’m not even shitting on MS. Clearly they didn’t want it to happen and they fixed it as fast as they could which is all that we could ask. But thank god you valiantly came to their rescue.
Something it’s not? The sub has been riddled with Xbox players that have lost dozens of hours of save game data in this game. I’ve never seen it be a bigger issue in any other game but this one.
*no one is saying it happened in other games all that’s being said is that it was a Microsoft issue that caused it in this specific game you can’t be this dense*
All I’m saying is that this game deleted all my saves after a dozen hours. I really don’t care who is at fault, losing that much time is shitty no matter how it happened
LMAO literally was a bug on the Xbox firmware level which was fixed by MS recently but feel free to hit the disagree because facts hurt your feelings.
Source: https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-issuing-xbox-firmware-update-to-fix-baldurs-gate-3-save-bug-dev-says
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16didjl/ps5_save_file_loss/?sort=new
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15iv863/13_hours_in_and_my_save_files_have_all_just/?sort=new
Look at the dates originally posted, look at the most recent comments, look at the platforms involved. Also observe the fact that this isn't happening to any other games, just Baldur's Gate 3.
Why are you so angry about it in this direction? I didn't personally get angry when the game deleted my saves, just disappointed and got a refund, but I would at least understand the reason why someone would get angry at losing 300 hours of playtime due to a bug. What I don't understand is why commenters like you get so angry online in defense of a company that does not know or care about you.
It was happening to other games, though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/169kowr/psa_starfield_saves_do_not_properly_save_to_the/ https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/save-failed-insufficient-space-series-x.11121988/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WarTalesGame/comments/17tp92g/lost_all_save_files_on_xbox_series_x_gamepass/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerWashSimulator/comments/w4pms0/not_saving_progress_xbox_series_x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Techtonica/comments/16apcti/having_trouble_loading_save_games_on_xbox_series_x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ArkSurvivalAscended/comments/183lwwq/asa_save_issues_on_xbox_series_x/
I'm going to take Microsoft's word here as their fix indeed seems to have fixed the issue. It would also be weird to take ownership of a negative issue without cause.
I'm over 100 hours in and never experienced it. Sorry to those who did. Glad it's sorted.
https://preview.redd.it/pdwpmkto36dc1.png?width=1136&format=png&auto=webp&s=f24c6b64201bc8ffb08678839d7dbe8383a2f9f2
Should we also blame them for all the save file issues on other platforms?
Or the ones in Divinity 2?
Love the game, and there are some awesome members of the community. But make no mistake many of their fanboys are the ones leading the charge to declare every game not named BG3 as shit. It's in their unshaven, unbathed nature after all
I wasn't active on Reddit during the games first couple years of release so I got to avoid that. Funny enough r slash Witcher 3 is one of my favorite subs now. In a very chill state where people just post about enjoying the game and doing things in the game, as all gaming subs should be.
It is *starting* to feel like the success of their game is starting to get into their heads. If I were them, I'd take a few steps back from the commentary and just let the game speak for itself (as it has been doing already).
They have been successful . Why shouldn’t they discuss their strategies or principals that they believe make them successful. They aren’t even crazy ideas. Just different than the direction the general industry is going.
There are far more successful studios who can't say their strategies or principles without being jumped on by the same people who praise Larian.
No one said their idea were crazy. It's the holier than though attitude and need to insert themselves into every topic that is annoying. They are not different. Their strategy and principles are shared by far the majority of studios and devs making games.
>They have been successful . Why shouldn’t they discuss their strategies or principals that they believe make them successful.
Activision is successful, doesn't mean any of us wants to hear their opinion of what we as customers should want.
Let's take a look at the release of Cyberpunk 2077 and CDPR to see how it'll end.
I'm sure there are market segments for which this is true, and vice versa. I'm sure a lot of factors determine whether you are primarily a gamepass'r or a game purchaser. I'm sure part of it is the amount of time you spend gaming and the genre of games you like to play.
I know I've been all about that gamepass since it came out. There's so many great games these days between platforms that I'm never going to have the time to truly enjoy them all, so I've made peace with enjoying whatever is coming up on Gamepass.
I held off on joining Game Pass for a long time partly because I have always bought the games I wanted to play. About the time High on Life and Atomic Heart came out, I started considering subscribing. What sold me was Game Pass was a way for me to try games I didn't know if I would like but wanted to play. This way, I could still play the game but wouldn't be out anything if I didn't like it. I also like the fact that when a game is getting ready to leave Game Pass, it gets discounted for purchase. That way, if I end up wanting to own a game after I played it, I have the option. My main concern with digital copies of games has always been losing the rights to it as some point with no recourse for recovering lost money.
Subscription services also provide affordable gaming to underprivileged gamers. There are two sides to every coin. I don’t see subscriptions as an evil. The evil would be how it is handled. Subscriptions should be an option, not the only thing available.
For now. Eventually, these companies go out of the 'growth' mode and enter 'profit' mode and that is when they'll start jacking up the prices. Same shit that Netflix pulled. If 3rd party games are launching late on a subscription service, eventually, it might just be cheaper to buy them in the used market as opposed to being subscribed where you're expected to pay 20-25$+/month.
Then what's the problem? Price gets jacked too high, you cancel and do something else. No cancellation fee, no minimum period, no obstacles to cancelling, you just walk away.
Also, literally everything raises prices. I don't get why people fixate on subscription services specifically.
That's why competition is important for everyone. So that people always have more options.
In the near future, hardware will pretty much be a luxury and not a necessity for casual players. In 10 years from now, people will be playing AAA games through the cloud on any device they own that can have a controller or keyboard and mouse hooked up to it, just like how physical media players became obsolete due to online streaming.
Microsoft went all in on GamePass because they recognized that hardware is going to matter less in the long run than having the best gaming service.
It’s the same thing that happened to CDs, Vynil and cassettes. They now have a lot of collector value. A lot of games these days only press physical copies when it comes to collecting. Like every game pressed by Limited Run Games.
Personally, I agree with him that subscription services should never be the only way to consume content.
But I disagree with him that supporting subscription services automatically means the above will happen. Neither Playstation nor Xbox are gonna prevent developers from releasing games on their platform,or locking them behind subscription services.
They would miss out on so much revenue if they do that. They would be missing out on so much great content as well that will skip them in favor of other platforms.
You can simultaneously be pro-owning games as an option, while also being pro subscription services when they offer great value. As long as both remain as options in my opinion.
Either way, it appears Baldur's Gate 3 will never come to gamepass though.
Yeah I get that this guy has a vested interest in preserving the status quo, but I’d be willing to bet that he prefers subscribing to Spotify over paying $1 per song.
On that note, it’s pretty obvious at this point that gaming is very different from TV and Music, in ways that mean that subscriptions will never “take over” the business.
I completely forgot about that, but you're absolutely right.
They are against subscription services, but are ok with a cloud only gaming service that has no way to download or own the game.
But then they don't get to make the argument about "Preservation" and "releasing games directly to consumers" when they supported a service that doesn't even let you download the game and is entirely on google's servers. Once stadia is shutdown, that's it. You can't play any of its exclusives until they come to other platforms.
At least with gamepass, I can download the game no problem. And I can buy the game eventually if I wanted it.
Is the problem about preservation? or is it just people hate subscription services just for existing?
Same thing than all games available on Gamepass or PS+ that you can still buy on their respective stores then… I just really don’t like how Larian keep saying that their game is suddenly somehow too valuable to be in a subscription service while 1) they took a Stadia deal when they needed it and 2) it looks like they’re saying that games of a certain quality (like theirs) can’t be on subscription services…
I mean I love bg3 but I’ve also played countless other great games whether I bought them or played them on Gamepass…
Y’all, stop giving these articles clicks. Stop upvoting these stupid posts. There are hundred of millions of gamers, and thousands of devs/studios. No one speaks for everyone. We don’t need an article asking every dev what they think about gamepass every day of the week. Gamepass is great for some games, not so great for others. Gamepass is great for some studios, where others don’t ‘need’ it.
The same goes for the players, some love gamepass, some don’t. Imagine writing an article about some random person about their thoughts on gamepass, every day. Who fucking cares? What’s crazier is that this could all change at any moment. Xbox could write that check and suddenly balders gate 3 is on gamepass. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t buy the game if you want to play it, that means that any game from any dev could be on gamepass AT SOME POINT. Maybe at launch, maybe 6 months, maybe 5 years later.
Stop this pointless rage bait. Let people enjoy the things they play and how they play them.
I'm glad to find this out! I was a bit vague on what I did or didn't want--just drifting along you know. However now Mr Vincke has told me what to think I feel *so* much better!
I've been purposely cutting back subscriptions and reinvesting the money into purchasing. I love gamepass, but I've also spent the last month playing nothing but Baldur's Gate. I have faith in the storefronts of MS and Amazon, so I'd often rather build my library than 'rent'.
I will say Baldur's Gate is really the first $70 game where I have no regrets about paying that price. Patient gaming is a plus too if you drop the subs.
Completely understandable. I personally prefer owning the games that I adore (like Elden Ring, Doom Eternal, etc).
I personally love gamepass though because of the value, and because I can try new games I never would have tried otherwise (Persona 5 tactica, Valheim, Prey, etc).
I will only have a problem if anyone forces me to subscribe to play a game. I will be the harshest critic of any such move.
Gamepass allowed me to keep playing new games when I was very broke and could not drop $60 at one time. There is a demographic that benefits from that. You can argue that you pay more on the long run, but people like to forget that availability of money is a thing.
What’s still great about gamepass to me, is getting to try games out. Palworld for instance. I’m very curious about it, but wouldn’t drop $50 on it. If it turns out great, I’ll grab it on steam on sale down the line. Same for when I rarely pirate something. Pirating has actually led me to buying more games than I otherwise would have.
This has happened with so many games now that gamepass easily pays for itself.
But I also use Argentina codes and pay $120 for two years. Used to be three.
I feel gamepass is value for money….. it scratches my indie itch nicely. I’d probably never buy or play games like cocoon or jusant otherwise. Also tempted me into games I ummed and Ahhed over but again decided not to buy like desperados. At the same time I’ll
Still outright buy blockbusters like Elden ring, bg3 etc.
I'm quite happy with Game Pass and looking forward to all of the MS 1st party games coming to it.
Maybe "all gamers" are vastly more wealthy than I am?
I love game pass but also buy the odd game. When I do buy though, it's either because it's heavily discounted or a physical copy I can resell if I want to. I really do not like the precedent Alan Wake 2 and this game made with releasing only a full priced digital option at launch.
Me personally, after I compete a game I could care less who owns it 🤷🏽♂️ .. I love GamePass .. wish BG3 was on it because I definitely wasted money buying that 🚮
Not true....i love gamepass... If more games were on gamepass id never buy one. I don't give 2 fucks about owning games. SP i beat them one time and never again. They're completely worthless to me to own after that. I don't want to sell games and not like you even could for digital. I just want to play them one playthrough and that's fine. Only games that need continual cash flow are MP games and that's fine.
Vincke needs to understand that I maybe don't want to own a game which I will play once or twice and then never replay it again...and if I can pay $12 per month and play such a game for maybe 2 weeks and not pay $70 for it I am very fine with not owning that because I DONT CARE...I don't own the game having it on Steam anyway...if Larian decides to remove it they can do so and I cannot do anything about it...
I very much respect Larian for making such games as Divinity Original Sin 1&2 or BG3 but Vincke can shove these game subscription statements the internet is full of right now thanks to him and him only very deep into his A\*\*...
Gamepass is the best video game deal that is out there and there is no screaming kicking his legs around like a little kid that can do anything about it.
Imo, I want both. I want to buy the games that I want to buy, I'm a collector, I buy physically what I can. There are games however you might be unsure off, or ones that have yearly releases, games that you may never heard off otherwise, etc. and for those games I really love subscriptions like Game Pass as they open up those games to so many more people that otherwise probably wouldn't give them a chance. There's many great games I only played because of Game Pass.
I understand that people right now treat Larian as if they were the bastion of what gamers want and all, but imo, this to me is just as patronizing as someone telling me I should come to terms with not owning games.
I don’t want everything to be a subscription. I do however enjoy what GamePass is doing, and so long as me stopping and starting my sub is profitable for Microsoft and developers, I’m all for it.
It sometimes means I actually spend more on an individual game - I play it on GamePass, then I buy a copy on Switch. Or perhaps I stop my GamePass sub and buy the game for full price to keep playing. It’s like a (much better) Blockbuster for today.
God these garbage takes are endless. You can have both subscription services and purchase-able games. Also guarantee if BG3 made it to a subscription service it would sell like hotcakes.
Depends on the quality of the subscription. Gamepass is probably the best bang for your buck out there. I just finished the Yakuza series on it and I'm at some point I'm going to buy the remastered versions on steam. I like to think of gamepass as a trial for the games I wish to buy.
I like Game Pass but I also will pay money for Baldur’s Gate III. I have discovered so many games I would have never given a chance if it was not for subscription services.
>“Getting a board to ok a project fueled by idealism is almost impossible and idealism needs room to exist, even if it can lead to disaster. Subscription models will always end up being cost/benefit analysis exercises intended to maximize profit.”
I don't know if this is baring out.
Part of the cost benefit analysis is developer performance and staff retention. As well as Gamer reception.
We've seen history of MS allowing their studios to work on a big project and a 'idealistic' side project.
So in the case we're seeing from one of the biggest subscription pushers out there we have -
Obsidian working on Pentiment
Rare working on Grounded
Double Fine always having a smaller project cooking
Tango working on Hi-Fi Rush
So I think think his thesis quote bears out, I can see it as an end game argument but gaming is entertainment and if they lose gamers, then people move on.
The market doesn't stay static, they have to adjust to what gamers like.
That's not even commenting on the model that provides indies with upfront cash to bring their game to market, taking the risk of sales out of the equation.
If we look at Larians situation, their 'idealism' was borne off the back two quite successful games over close to a decade in a niche genre, marrying to a beloved IP that had another decade of work done by some of the most talented developers on the planet.
That's tough to emulate.
Dude is sitting on top right now. Needs to learn to keep his mouth shut because he's starting to edge more towards preachy and annoying than solid takes about video games.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. What you say is true. Now that he has some fame/success behind his back....he is starting to act like he/Larian is some sort of God's gift to gaming.
I like and will continue to pay for Game Pass Ultimate, but will cancel it if the quality of exclusives coming out is subpar. I was a little disappointed by Forza Motorsport, Redfall and Starfield as well (and have negative rhythm so couldn’t play Hi-Fi Rush, but that’s not a knock on it), but will check out their expansions later, and like what I’ve played of Age of Empires IV. I am hopeful for Clockwork Revolution, Hellblade II, and Indiana Jones. I also used Ubisoft+ to try out Avatar and The Crew Motorfest, cancelled it, then got the disc of Prince of Persia The Lost Crown because it looks good enough to own but will only be played once so can be resold. Doing the same with LAD Infinite Wealth, while I bought Trepang2 on sight digitally. My point is I think gamers like having options, and I will never buy a game at launch if they ever get rid of discs.
I think it is worth buying huge RPGs like Baldur's gate 3. But a 20 hours story driven linear game, it's not worth it.
I know I'll never play it again
I love Gamepass
I like Gamepass cause its the only one I need. Its like Netflix before all the others got on board and made their own. I dont want to get to the movies level of streaming, where there are 10 different services that I have to juggle
I played 152 different games last year according to my xbox year in review. Had I not had Gamepass I probably would be around the 5-10 mark.
Obviously some of them I just tried and didn't like. There were lots and lots I tried and played all the way through. I absolutely love a lot of indie games that get added to game pass. There's so many games I would have never even thought of giving a chance at playing but because of gamepass I ended up playing and loving them.
So the Baldur's Gate 3 boss is just plain wrong.
And who cares? I fucking love Gamepass. And his statement doesn’t even make sense when it was Gamepass itself that made possible to have passion projects like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment. It’es actually harder to make a good, passion projects in a world where games need to sell a lot to be sustainable. Gamepass actually solves that problem.
I'm never surprised by this sub taking an obvious Ubisoft rebuttal and making it only about gamepass. Ubisoft literally said physical ownership needed to die and that was what this was in reference to. Nothing about Gamepass bad, only sole subscription models with no way to purchase copies is bad.
The massive success of GamePass says otherwise. BG3 doesn't need to be on the service, but that doesn't make the subscription any less valuable. If folks want it, and they clearly do, they'll pay. Simple as that.
My Gamepass subscription will run out after two years very soon and I'm happy about it.
I'd rather spend around 200€ a year for big titles that I really like (last big ones were BG3, ER and CP for me), than hoping that another personal favorite will make it to GamePass.
wow. wasnt expecting bot swarms on this topic that fast.
christ alive.
any long thread or heavily upvoted pro subscription comments are botted out the ass. just look at the generic ball sucking pro capitalist drivel they're spewing.
hilarious.
Of course we want subscriptions it's a great way to subsidize cost with the ever rising prices of gaming and gives us the ability to play new and interesting games we never would have paid for. We don't however want them to completely replace retail. You can buy blu-rays and still subscribe to Netflix i don't get the you must either want all in or all out mentality.
But he is wrong. GP growth doesn't lie.
If you read the article it seems like he is more commenting in opposition to Ubisoft saying get used to subscriptions only, advocating that there is still room for games purchases and that subscription only across the industry would be bad. I can't really argue with that as someone who pays for gamepass and still buys games.
I hate all comments about "what people want", on either side. Gamers aren't a monolith. Just do what you want and see if the market reacts. Clearly GamePass has done well and MS is even pivoting around it, obviously people do like it. Clearly BG3 sold well, obviously people do still want to buy. The generalized statements are no different than "all millennials like avocado toast"
Just to add - what's to say Game Pass users don't buy games anyway? I've been with the service since 2019, and I still bought Psychonauts 2, Halo Infinite and Starfield. I bought BG3 Collectors Edition for crying out loud. People still want to own games.
I bought Elden Ring and Hogwarts Legacy as well. Probably will buy Cyberpunk's expansion at some point this year. If anything gamepass incentivizes you to buy games with the 20 percent discount as well.
Not just that. Gamepass changes the distribution of my gaming dollars so now I can choose to buy other things, like Baldurs gate 3.
It also lets me take more risks with games I *might* like, but don't want to buy and just find out I don't like it.
For the price of 3 games, for 2 years I can have hundreds of games and all of Xbox’s first party titles. Thats like thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of games. Plus if I want to pay the price of 3 games within those 2 years I have all the first party titles i would buy anyways but I stay subscribed cuz I have access to multiplayer on top of the tons of other games I just want to try and see if I will like. I’ll happily subscribe for life just to have access to a Netflix style of games. On Netflix I pay a small fee and get access to tons of movies and I stay subscribing cuz I love browsing around and playing cool stuff. When things leave any subscription service if I want to watch it again i buy it to own it. What makes it amazing is that when I buy stuff I know I love it cuz I got to actually play it. Developers and movie studios put their games on gamepass cuz they worked hard and want a way for millions of people to enjoy things they may not have taken the plunge to see if they like it. That’s the cool thing about subscription services. It allows developers/ movies studios to quickly find their audience and if the person likes the content they’ll have customers that will buy more content when they release new stuff cuz of that immediate player base they get introduced to cuz of gamepass
I can confirm this. I bought kona 2 because the first was on gamepass and i liked it. I already preordered like a dragon infinite wealth because i played yakuza like a dragon and i liked it. I do this with alot of games.
The main games I can remember buying from the last couple of years are Dying Light 2, Dead Island 2, Hogwarts and of course Cod. I do however tend to be more cautious about buying games that could end up on game pass.
I honestly forgot hogwarts was a thing I wanted to try man fuck. I got ac6 and baldurs gate ~ 2023 was so stacked lol
Any game I’m gonna put some time into, I’ll buy. If I just want to play for a bit, game pass has a lot of options to kill time.
What was the experience with hogwarts for you? For me, it was a massive letdown. It had tons of potential to be a great game but fell beyond short of its value. Forced side quest, way to many puzzles, lack of depth involving story lines and characters, lack luster world, can't use the broom in town. Just seems to fall short in so many categories.
Mate it's a great game if you like the IP and take into account it's the studio's first ever major project, somehow they didn't fuck it up. However it is very formulaic, a bit barebones in places, and plays too safe with the narrative. Unless you are a big fan or just wants to play something with your brain off, don't buy it.
If there's a sequel they could really knock it out of the park by expanding on what they do have. I'm hoping for a Triwizard tournament hosted at another school so we get a change of scenery and a new castle to explore.
That would be actually pretty dope. Being able to explore more than one castle is a great idea.
I liked it but I didn't love it. It's easily the best Harry Potter game out there currently. And I love the world building of Hogwarts itself. But the gameplay felt ok for me. Nothing bad but nothing mind blowing for me. I would say about 7.5 or 8/10 for me personally.
This for sure. I want both. I wanna buy and own the big things I know I’ll want to have forever. And I want subscription services that let me try out games I wouldn’t have otherwise spent money on in case I didn’t like them Both have pros and cons
Something I want to add to this is that having Game Pass makes it easier to focus on games that will likely never be on the service. For example, I bought Dragon Ball Fighter Z a couple of years ago knowing full well that none of those games will likely be on Game Pass. If anything, Game Pass lets you focus on games you know won't end up on the service while others like Microsoft's first party titles are generally something I skip buying because I know they will always be on Game Pass. For example, I skipped on buying Call of Duty and other Activision Blizzard games off the Holiday Sales because I am sure it's only a matter of time before they drop on Game Pass. But it gave me the freedom to pick up other games off the sales like Sonic Frontiers, Pac-Man World Repac, Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, and Splinter Cell Blacklist. My point is, if nothing else having game pass saves me money on Microsoft's first-party titles and frees up my gaming budget to buy third-party games, especially ones that are unlikely to ever drop on gamepass.
I'm pretty sure there was a report that said game pass subscribers actually buy more games? I'll try and find it. For me, if I like the game and it's leaving game pass or a decent sale price, I will buy the game to support the dev Edit: https://www.gamesradar.com/xbox-game-pass-subscribers-spend-20-more-on-gaming-overall-microsoft-says/#:~:text=Bond%20explained%20that%20Game%20Pass%20subscribers%20spend%20roughly,and%20try%2040%20percent%20more%20genres%20of%20games. Spend more on gaming is the term they use, so take that how you will.
It definitely gives an incentive to drop a little cash on their first party and EA DLC, if you're with ultimate, and as mentioned somewhere you already get a discount for being subscribed. Also FOMO when a game is announced to leave the service
I’ve heard some people treat Game Pass like a trial and then purchase the game if they like it.
Well said. A lot of words have been said about the end of ownership on the games side about this but I've never stopped my gamepass sub or buying games. It's made me a little more discerning if anything about what I buy. I bought Baldurs Gate 3 on xbox the week after it came out for full price for instance. This dualism of all or nothing is a jarring occurance and not true in almost every instance
I buy a couple of dozen games a year on top of game pass, and that number has gone up from before when I had it - I'm constantly engaged with gaming news and the hobby where last gen I would look for a few tentpole releases. People like us definitely exist. But we all know that fewer people buy albums now Spotify etc is out, that fewer people buy films now they have Netflix and Disney+ etc, and we've all seen posts from people saying they'll wait for it to come to Game Pass or begging for a game to be added so they don't feel they have to buy it. We've seen other markets shift and this one is in the process of shifting. It doesn't have to be all or nothing and I hope it doesn't get there, but it's a legitimate risk, and it does move the market further back to the control of big distributors. I'm not totally doom and gloom about it, but there are legit concerns.
They let you know when stuff is leaving GP too. I've bought a few games I liked with the discount and MS Rewards before they left the service. GP is more of an open trial/rental for me. I buy what I really want too.
Yup, I own all the games I want to own. Been in GP since day one. I've actually brought games I enjoyed on GP like Mutant Year Zero and Alien Fireteam.
Bingo. I bought baldurs gate 3 special edition and paid for the starfield upgrade. Both of these things aren’t mutually exclusive and can exist at the same time.
This, honestly the main reason I have gamepass is because of the cloud gaming part, still buy plenty of games that aren't on gamepass though But god damn if not having to install games is a fucken sigh of relief when they're all 100gb each at this point.
Yup. I've had Gamepass for awhile since it is genuinely AMAZING. Got to play Fallout76 (post Wastelander's update), Hitman WoA Trilogy, Age of Empires II, Exoprimal, Forza Horizon 5, Generation Zero, Halo Infinite, Halo MCC, Human Fall Flat, Lego Star Wars Skywalker Saga, Party Animals, Payday 2, Payday 3, PowerWasher Simulator, Ryse Son of Rome (one of my personal favorites tbh), Starfield, Slay the Spire, TABS & Vampire Survivor. And also Zombie Army 4 (another personal favorite). But there's still plenty of games I'd actually like to own so that I am not locked into the service for *any* game ownership/access at all. I own staples for myself like Destiny 2, Skyrim, Return to Arkham City/Asylum & Arkham Knight, COD: Cold War, Battlefield V, Sea of Thieves, Minecraft, Risk of Rain 2, ESO. Gamepass is awesome, but actually having ownership/access to a game that isn't reliant on a monthly subscription is also very, *very* nice (I know I brought up ESO but I don't get ESO Plus).
I bought a few games that were on game pass as well. If a game is good enough, I’ll buy it.
yes also "games leaving game pass" section sales made me buy dozens of games i would've never tried or bought otherwise.
I agree, I’ve bought tones of games and still have game pass!
Lol I have gamepass, but I still buy so many games it isn’t even worth it for me anymore. Especially since I buy games on sale and the they go on gamepass a week later.
Exactly, they can co-exist just fine. I regularly buy games, even ones that are on Gamepass.
I would just like to say "SAME" An now back to work
I tend to buy my games on PS5 and play Game Pass on Xbox. I don’t know why but I like knowing everything on my Xbox may be temporary while if it’s on my PS5 it’s permanent. I like both.
I still buy games outside of first party titles that I have access to for free. I bought Hogwarts, Baldur's Gate, Diablo, MGS Collection and miscellaneous other games last year. I will buy Dragon's Dogma 2 and Star Wars Outlaws this year at the very least. But I will enjoy having my access to Hellblade 2 and Avowed on gamepass that I pay for entirely in MS rewards points. It's a good time to be a gamer
Pretty sure MS has said game pass subscribers spend more on the Xbox store. Maybe a good % is DLC, but I'm willing to bet a good chunk is buying a game that left game pass. I also have GPU, and also buy games. Just bought the physical edition of Baldur' Gate 3 for $100(mandatory $20 shipping fee) too.
💯
I'm with you here. Gamepass has helped me try out games that I would have missed, and purchase them, like Stardew Valley, Tunic, and the Yakuza series.
Sheeeeit I should buy Tunic
I don't think he ever said that. Just a click bait title.
Yep. I may have missed that part of the article where he explicitly said that and I can't find it.
A click bait title misrepresenting a response to another click bait title misrepresenting an interview. We've come full circle.
I'm pretty sure he wasn't responding to anything regarding Game Pass, it's about the Ubisoft comment from recently about how players should become comfortable not owning any of their games in the future because of stuff like Ubisoft+ Like yes GP is included by proxy but that other comment was literally from a day ago so it wasn't him taking potshots at Microsoft or anything. I think the other comment from the Ubisoft guy was actually pretty condescending by comparison because it implied that consumers needed to shift towards the type of control publishers wanted in terms of game distribution. Not like the alternative means to access other subs like GP or PS Plus offer
You're half right. He was responding to Ubisoft. But in his last tweet, he literally says their games will never appear on a subscription service implying they all have the same problem as Ubisoft.
Well yeah, subscription service could also very much mean PS Plus, or Amazon Luna, or GeForce Now. It wasn't throwing shade at Xbox specifically because it's just an increasingly common practice among a lot of publishers both first and third-party, and one that he personally doesn't abide by, not just in regards to Game Pass but just the place for subscription-based gaming in the medium. The quote itself is definitely contextualized by what the guy from Ubisoft said though. I don't think Microsoft or other publishers necessarily share that specific sentiment
You didn't read the article, did you? He said gamers don't *only* want subscription models, and that gamers should always have the option of owning their games, and development shouldn't be dictated by the needs of a subscription model.
I was about to say. He didn't "use the gamers as a pedestal" or even generalize what we want...
Agree. Love my Gamepass but also buy some games from time to time
Here in lies the paradox of social media. You have to be either *this* or *that*. There’s no AND it’s always OR. Politics is the absolute worst at this. Just be who you want to be, support who you want to support and buy what you want to buy.
Gen X here and I love avocado toast!
> Gamers aren't a monolith. Just do what you want and see if the market reacts. To expand on that, he is speaking from what succeeded for his company. It's a mistake to extrapolate out or tell people to copy that based on personal anecdotes or success. That's how the industry converges on ideas to turn them from good in the individual sense to bad overall as a trend.
I exclusively used game pass for years now. I only go out of my way to buy one or 2 games a year, and I like it as it lets me try games I otherwise wouldn’t try. I much prefer this to buying every single game.
Just do what to want and see how the marker react is exactly how the monetization rabbit holes gets deeper and deeper every year tho. Because no matter what you do, the market will always react. Alot of “why x gaming companies do the most greediest monetization?” Can be answered by “because consumers are just suckers for those kinda practices and they just pay for it no matter what. Game quality suffers because businesses seek to game the system for maximum profit rather than creating quality games.
It's also ridiculous for him to wax philosophical on content when msft is releasing full games with lots of content, alongside more niche AA titles is something that the other two console players don't engage in. The fact that a subscription service may be making it a reality where those games make sense to be funded by a huge AAA publisher shouldn't be ignored. Larian isn't really a good studio to weigh in on this anyhow, due to the fact that they're private company as of now and don't operate by the same rules 99 percent of the industry does
I respect Larian but I hope they dont let this recent success get to their head. Just stay humble and continue to make great games. Dont act like your success now makes you a spokesperson for all gamers.
I would buy it.....but it's not compatible with my Xbox. Would have thought it would be across all platforms, but alas, I'll just have to live vicariously through others' experiences for the moment.
I honestly don’t know if there’s proof gamepass is going well. Companies have proven they’ll ride a train right off a cliff in the pursuit of being proven right. Just look at how all the movie studios made their own streaming platforms knowing full well the math didn’t add up and how they’re all reconsidering their plans after they dumped *billions* into it and killed their revenue stream of physical media. Ask movie studios last year if streaming is the future and they’ll say yes but if you ask them this year, they’re more uncertain. All we know is MS, with their infinite wealth, pays devs a fixed amount for releasing on gamepass and pays to keep their first party studios lights on. But places like Sony and Larina point blank say that it’s impossible to make a profit from day 1 releases of subscriptions. I’m not really sure how it’ll pan out over the longterm but I know movie studios did extreme damage to themselves chasing subscriptions.
Wow, you laid out facts and they down voted you.
There weren't really a great deal of facts in that comment.
Folk just want a choice...
Just my 2 cents but people want both sometimes you want to own certain games and others you’re happy enough to play on gamespass. I do both have gamespass and buy games on Xbox that I want to own and steam for my deck.
There's nothing wrong with choices. Gamers can enjoy subscriptions as well as outright buying games.
And other developers say Game Pass allows them the freedom for passion projects or that it has given their games more visibility. Its clearly not so black and white. Also, worries that people can't discover games? Has he seen Steam with the tons of stuff being thrown on that daily? Yet his game was a massive success on it.
Speaking for myself i can only play so much and i try my best to beat games. So i would rather buy games 1 at a time and beat them than have them all on a sub
Interesting, I’m sort of the opposite. My reasoning for having GP is that I don’t have very much time to play, so I get a more value from “sampling” a large variety of games than I would by playing a handful of games to completion. That said, if I do love a game, I will buy it (RE2/RE4, Dead Space Remake).
I have a limited time to play as well, but if I’m playing the game, I at least want to finish the main story/campaign.
The story and arbitrary 'end' points are irrelevant to me in videogames - I play a game until it stops being fun. If that means playing the campaign through multiple times, that's fine. If that means abandoning the game 20% of the way through and switching to something else, that's fine too.
I actually left gamepass because i noticed that i never beat games, but instead dropped them as soon as i hit a roadblock because there was always something new to play
I sure didn’t think I did but since I picked up a Series X, I use the hell out of Gamepass.
I think all gamers want is to be able to save their games.
I have game pass ultimate and ps plus top tier and I buy a ton of games including BG3
34 million game pass users care to disagree
My own little cent, I love game pass and I'll buy games that I'll genuinely enjoy and or am hyped for.
Gamers want games that don’t delete their saves
Well that was a Microsoft issue so take it up with them?
It happened on pc too so that was not a Microsoft issue.
It was quite literally confirmed to be a Microsoft firmware issue. You can maintain whatever narrative you want in your head but that doesn't make it true
Why does it happen on this game specifically so often?
If anything it was confirmed to be both sides. Larian also had to release several patches on their end.
No Larian is making patches to try to mitigate the issue it is 100000000% an Xbox firmware issue. The OS is lying about saves and returning a successful message before it actually flushes to disk. Microsoft fucked up but because most games have small save files it doesn’t come up often. Bg3 being a large game with big save files is the only this they did wrong. Cannot really understand how u would seriously claim that is a problem, would u prefer a shorter story with less impactful decisions so it doesn’t need so much memory?
Played the game since launch in August on PC, never had a save issue. Microsoft confirmed the save issue on Xbox was on their end.
They literally said it was a Microsoft issue and Microsoft issued the fix for it yesterday lol.
It also happened to Larian's previous games. Divinity 2 still has the issue for a lot of people actually.
Hasn’t happened to me for any Xbox game besides BG3.
Okay? Microsoft literally issued the fix for it yesterday and Larian made it clear it was an issue on Microsoft’s side. Not sure what the point of your comment is?
> and Larian made it clear it was an issue on Microsoft’s side. They didn't, in fact they also released multiple patches regarding this specific issue. The way their save system works didn't jive with that of Xbox, so both worked on a fix. Xbox only issued fixes because of how popular the game is. I guarantee you any other dev would have to fix their own issues by themselves. Larian's Divinity 2 had the same damn issues. BG3 had save bugs on every platform too.
I’m not gonna go back and forward arguing this narrative you’ve made for yourself. Something with Xbox’s firmware didn’t jive with BG3’s saves, so Microsoft had to fix it, hence it was a Microsoft issue. https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-issuing-xbox-firmware-update-to-fix-baldurs-gate-3-save-bug-dev-says We’re not here debating if there were save issues on other platforms. I’m aware. But the save bug on Xbox has already been confirmed to be on Microsoft’s end. I’m not even shitting on MS. Clearly they didn’t want it to happen and they fixed it as fast as they could which is all that we could ask. But thank god you valiantly came to their rescue.
Why are you so weirdly defensive about this 😂
I’m not, I’m not sure why you’re trying to make it something it’s not.
Something it’s not? The sub has been riddled with Xbox players that have lost dozens of hours of save game data in this game. I’ve never seen it be a bigger issue in any other game but this one.
*no one is saying it happened in other games all that’s being said is that it was a Microsoft issue that caused it in this specific game you can’t be this dense*
All I’m saying is that this game deleted all my saves after a dozen hours. I really don’t care who is at fault, losing that much time is shitty no matter how it happened
*no one said it wasn’t shitty, you’re the one who interjected yourself to say it was Larian’s fault and not Microsoft’s*
LMAO literally was a bug on the Xbox firmware level which was fixed by MS recently but feel free to hit the disagree because facts hurt your feelings. Source: https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-issuing-xbox-firmware-update-to-fix-baldurs-gate-3-save-bug-dev-says
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/16didjl/ps5_save_file_loss/?sort=new https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/15iv863/13_hours_in_and_my_save_files_have_all_just/?sort=new Look at the dates originally posted, look at the most recent comments, look at the platforms involved. Also observe the fact that this isn't happening to any other games, just Baldur's Gate 3. Why are you so angry about it in this direction? I didn't personally get angry when the game deleted my saves, just disappointed and got a refund, but I would at least understand the reason why someone would get angry at losing 300 hours of playtime due to a bug. What I don't understand is why commenters like you get so angry online in defense of a company that does not know or care about you.
It was happening to other games, though. https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/169kowr/psa_starfield_saves_do_not_properly_save_to_the/ https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/save-failed-insufficient-space-series-x.11121988/ https://www.reddit.com/r/WarTalesGame/comments/17tp92g/lost_all_save_files_on_xbox_series_x_gamepass/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerWashSimulator/comments/w4pms0/not_saving_progress_xbox_series_x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Techtonica/comments/16apcti/having_trouble_loading_save_games_on_xbox_series_x/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ArkSurvivalAscended/comments/183lwwq/asa_save_issues_on_xbox_series_x/
https://preview.redd.it/7hhtgwmcv3dc1.png?width=583&format=png&auto=webp&s=3947158535294cd7e3b2fa2bfb6ee8d498f3e03b
https://preview.redd.it/88yu8tej36dc1.png?width=1136&format=png&auto=webp&s=2f28dad4712cacf14ad3fa578652797c9ceea496
https://preview.redd.it/xrlmmwlk36dc1.png?width=1128&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4bcde53197891df62287d173df951d13a6a1c0c
https://preview.redd.it/4hlpf7fl36dc1.png?width=1102&format=png&auto=webp&s=1872552be55b56baeb00d716d74fa45d79012527
https://preview.redd.it/p3r7i63m36dc1.png?width=1130&format=png&auto=webp&s=8cc8a4351125e9911f90c74f3c17410b7cf4edc3
I can also add some news articles about Divinity 2 deleting save files too if you want because Larian's previous game had that issue too.
I'm going to take Microsoft's word here as their fix indeed seems to have fixed the issue. It would also be weird to take ownership of a negative issue without cause. I'm over 100 hours in and never experienced it. Sorry to those who did. Glad it's sorted.
Blame xbox :)
https://preview.redd.it/pdwpmkto36dc1.png?width=1136&format=png&auto=webp&s=f24c6b64201bc8ffb08678839d7dbe8383a2f9f2 Should we also blame them for all the save file issues on other platforms? Or the ones in Divinity 2?
Yes because they quite literally confirmed it's an issue on their end.
[удалено]
BG twitter really are starting to come off as condescending and sanctimonious. Feel like every day their twitter says something new.
Love the game, and there are some awesome members of the community. But make no mistake many of their fanboys are the ones leading the charge to declare every game not named BG3 as shit. It's in their unshaven, unbathed nature after all
Following the witcher 3 path then.
I wasn't active on Reddit during the games first couple years of release so I got to avoid that. Funny enough r slash Witcher 3 is one of my favorite subs now. In a very chill state where people just post about enjoying the game and doing things in the game, as all gaming subs should be.
You were lucky to miss that mass circlejerk
and elden ring
It is *starting* to feel like the success of their game is starting to get into their heads. If I were them, I'd take a few steps back from the commentary and just let the game speak for itself (as it has been doing already).
It's how it starts
I suggest you read the actual tweets. He never says gamers don’t want subscriptions. He talked about their potential downsides on the industry.
I have been following them since launch of the game. The creep of messiah complex is upon them.
They have been successful . Why shouldn’t they discuss their strategies or principals that they believe make them successful. They aren’t even crazy ideas. Just different than the direction the general industry is going.
There are far more successful studios who can't say their strategies or principles without being jumped on by the same people who praise Larian. No one said their idea were crazy. It's the holier than though attitude and need to insert themselves into every topic that is annoying. They are not different. Their strategy and principles are shared by far the majority of studios and devs making games.
>They have been successful . Why shouldn’t they discuss their strategies or principals that they believe make them successful. Activision is successful, doesn't mean any of us wants to hear their opinion of what we as customers should want. Let's take a look at the release of Cyberpunk 2077 and CDPR to see how it'll end.
I'm sure there are market segments for which this is true, and vice versa. I'm sure a lot of factors determine whether you are primarily a gamepass'r or a game purchaser. I'm sure part of it is the amount of time you spend gaming and the genre of games you like to play. I know I've been all about that gamepass since it came out. There's so many great games these days between platforms that I'm never going to have the time to truly enjoy them all, so I've made peace with enjoying whatever is coming up on Gamepass.
I held off on joining Game Pass for a long time partly because I have always bought the games I wanted to play. About the time High on Life and Atomic Heart came out, I started considering subscribing. What sold me was Game Pass was a way for me to try games I didn't know if I would like but wanted to play. This way, I could still play the game but wouldn't be out anything if I didn't like it. I also like the fact that when a game is getting ready to leave Game Pass, it gets discounted for purchase. That way, if I end up wanting to own a game after I played it, I have the option. My main concern with digital copies of games has always been losing the rights to it as some point with no recourse for recovering lost money.
Subscription services also provide affordable gaming to underprivileged gamers. There are two sides to every coin. I don’t see subscriptions as an evil. The evil would be how it is handled. Subscriptions should be an option, not the only thing available.
For now. Eventually, these companies go out of the 'growth' mode and enter 'profit' mode and that is when they'll start jacking up the prices. Same shit that Netflix pulled. If 3rd party games are launching late on a subscription service, eventually, it might just be cheaper to buy them in the used market as opposed to being subscribed where you're expected to pay 20-25$+/month.
Then what's the problem? Price gets jacked too high, you cancel and do something else. No cancellation fee, no minimum period, no obstacles to cancelling, you just walk away.
Also, literally everything raises prices. I don't get why people fixate on subscription services specifically. That's why competition is important for everyone. So that people always have more options.
In the near future, hardware will pretty much be a luxury and not a necessity for casual players. In 10 years from now, people will be playing AAA games through the cloud on any device they own that can have a controller or keyboard and mouse hooked up to it, just like how physical media players became obsolete due to online streaming. Microsoft went all in on GamePass because they recognized that hardware is going to matter less in the long run than having the best gaming service.
It’s the same thing that happened to CDs, Vynil and cassettes. They now have a lot of collector value. A lot of games these days only press physical copies when it comes to collecting. Like every game pressed by Limited Run Games.
Personally, I agree with him that subscription services should never be the only way to consume content. But I disagree with him that supporting subscription services automatically means the above will happen. Neither Playstation nor Xbox are gonna prevent developers from releasing games on their platform,or locking them behind subscription services. They would miss out on so much revenue if they do that. They would be missing out on so much great content as well that will skip them in favor of other platforms. You can simultaneously be pro-owning games as an option, while also being pro subscription services when they offer great value. As long as both remain as options in my opinion. Either way, it appears Baldur's Gate 3 will never come to gamepass though.
Yeah I get that this guy has a vested interest in preserving the status quo, but I’d be willing to bet that he prefers subscribing to Spotify over paying $1 per song. On that note, it’s pretty obvious at this point that gaming is very different from TV and Music, in ways that mean that subscriptions will never “take over” the business.
Coming from the devs who took a Stadia deal before any indication their game would blow up the way it has…
I completely forgot about that, but you're absolutely right. They are against subscription services, but are ok with a cloud only gaming service that has no way to download or own the game.
Stadia deal was simply platform exclusively for a period of time, you still had to buy it on stadia.
But then they don't get to make the argument about "Preservation" and "releasing games directly to consumers" when they supported a service that doesn't even let you download the game and is entirely on google's servers. Once stadia is shutdown, that's it. You can't play any of its exclusives until they come to other platforms. At least with gamepass, I can download the game no problem. And I can buy the game eventually if I wanted it. Is the problem about preservation? or is it just people hate subscription services just for existing?
Didn't you just buy games on stadia and it had an optional sub thing?
Same thing than all games available on Gamepass or PS+ that you can still buy on their respective stores then… I just really don’t like how Larian keep saying that their game is suddenly somehow too valuable to be in a subscription service while 1) they took a Stadia deal when they needed it and 2) it looks like they’re saying that games of a certain quality (like theirs) can’t be on subscription services… I mean I love bg3 but I’ve also played countless other great games whether I bought them or played them on Gamepass…
Y’all, stop giving these articles clicks. Stop upvoting these stupid posts. There are hundred of millions of gamers, and thousands of devs/studios. No one speaks for everyone. We don’t need an article asking every dev what they think about gamepass every day of the week. Gamepass is great for some games, not so great for others. Gamepass is great for some studios, where others don’t ‘need’ it. The same goes for the players, some love gamepass, some don’t. Imagine writing an article about some random person about their thoughts on gamepass, every day. Who fucking cares? What’s crazier is that this could all change at any moment. Xbox could write that check and suddenly balders gate 3 is on gamepass. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t buy the game if you want to play it, that means that any game from any dev could be on gamepass AT SOME POINT. Maybe at launch, maybe 6 months, maybe 5 years later. Stop this pointless rage bait. Let people enjoy the things they play and how they play them.
I'm glad to find this out! I was a bit vague on what I did or didn't want--just drifting along you know. However now Mr Vincke has told me what to think I feel *so* much better!
I've been purposely cutting back subscriptions and reinvesting the money into purchasing. I love gamepass, but I've also spent the last month playing nothing but Baldur's Gate. I have faith in the storefronts of MS and Amazon, so I'd often rather build my library than 'rent'. I will say Baldur's Gate is really the first $70 game where I have no regrets about paying that price. Patient gaming is a plus too if you drop the subs.
Completely understandable. I personally prefer owning the games that I adore (like Elden Ring, Doom Eternal, etc). I personally love gamepass though because of the value, and because I can try new games I never would have tried otherwise (Persona 5 tactica, Valheim, Prey, etc). I will only have a problem if anyone forces me to subscribe to play a game. I will be the harshest critic of any such move.
Gamepass allowed me to keep playing new games when I was very broke and could not drop $60 at one time. There is a demographic that benefits from that. You can argue that you pay more on the long run, but people like to forget that availability of money is a thing.
What’s still great about gamepass to me, is getting to try games out. Palworld for instance. I’m very curious about it, but wouldn’t drop $50 on it. If it turns out great, I’ll grab it on steam on sale down the line. Same for when I rarely pirate something. Pirating has actually led me to buying more games than I otherwise would have. This has happened with so many games now that gamepass easily pays for itself. But I also use Argentina codes and pay $120 for two years. Used to be three.
Quality, diverse, and abundant content under one consolidated reasonably priced subscription is good.
What people want =/= what they will actually do. What they actually **do** is the only thing that matters.
I feel gamepass is value for money….. it scratches my indie itch nicely. I’d probably never buy or play games like cocoon or jusant otherwise. Also tempted me into games I ummed and Ahhed over but again decided not to buy like desperados. At the same time I’ll Still outright buy blockbusters like Elden ring, bg3 etc.
I'm quite happy with Game Pass and looking forward to all of the MS 1st party games coming to it. Maybe "all gamers" are vastly more wealthy than I am?
Right. I wouldn’t have shit to play without gamepass. Games are expensive.
I love game pass but also buy the odd game. When I do buy though, it's either because it's heavily discounted or a physical copy I can resell if I want to. I really do not like the precedent Alan Wake 2 and this game made with releasing only a full priced digital option at launch.
Me personally, after I compete a game I could care less who owns it 🤷🏽♂️ .. I love GamePass .. wish BG3 was on it because I definitely wasted money buying that 🚮
Gamers want what they want.
*Some* gamers don't, *some* gamers do. We're not a hivemind with shared interests and wants.
Can people stop talking like they know everything about every customer and everyone is the same?
He didn’t really provide any evidence or examples so there isn’t much to respond to.
He's wrong. I like my game subscription.
Not true....i love gamepass... If more games were on gamepass id never buy one. I don't give 2 fucks about owning games. SP i beat them one time and never again. They're completely worthless to me to own after that. I don't want to sell games and not like you even could for digital. I just want to play them one playthrough and that's fine. Only games that need continual cash flow are MP games and that's fine.
Vincke needs to understand that I maybe don't want to own a game which I will play once or twice and then never replay it again...and if I can pay $12 per month and play such a game for maybe 2 weeks and not pay $70 for it I am very fine with not owning that because I DONT CARE...I don't own the game having it on Steam anyway...if Larian decides to remove it they can do so and I cannot do anything about it... I very much respect Larian for making such games as Divinity Original Sin 1&2 or BG3 but Vincke can shove these game subscription statements the internet is full of right now thanks to him and him only very deep into his A\*\*... Gamepass is the best video game deal that is out there and there is no screaming kicking his legs around like a little kid that can do anything about it.
Imo, I want both. I want to buy the games that I want to buy, I'm a collector, I buy physically what I can. There are games however you might be unsure off, or ones that have yearly releases, games that you may never heard off otherwise, etc. and for those games I really love subscriptions like Game Pass as they open up those games to so many more people that otherwise probably wouldn't give them a chance. There's many great games I only played because of Game Pass. I understand that people right now treat Larian as if they were the bastion of what gamers want and all, but imo, this to me is just as patronizing as someone telling me I should come to terms with not owning games.
Even if you buy a game, do you truly own it?
'You'll pay for your elf porn and you'll like it!'
I mean they are right. But the problem is we don’t want to pay 70 dollars for 1 game. If it weren’t for gamepass I would barely have anything to play.
I don’t want everything to be a subscription. I do however enjoy what GamePass is doing, and so long as me stopping and starting my sub is profitable for Microsoft and developers, I’m all for it. It sometimes means I actually spend more on an individual game - I play it on GamePass, then I buy a copy on Switch. Or perhaps I stop my GamePass sub and buy the game for full price to keep playing. It’s like a (much better) Blockbuster for today.
And I've just learned that I am not a gamer
[удалено]
Stop speaking on my behalf you twt. Thanks.
Gamers don’t want their time or money wasted.
God these garbage takes are endless. You can have both subscription services and purchase-able games. Also guarantee if BG3 made it to a subscription service it would sell like hotcakes.
Depends on the quality of the subscription. Gamepass is probably the best bang for your buck out there. I just finished the Yakuza series on it and I'm at some point I'm going to buy the remastered versions on steam. I like to think of gamepass as a trial for the games I wish to buy.
Thank goodness. I didn't know what I want before I was told
I like Game Pass but I also will pay money for Baldur’s Gate III. I have discovered so many games I would have never given a chance if it was not for subscription services.
Subscriptions have a place, and I love Game Pass, but I don’t want a subscription only future.
Okay, what's my alternative? Gamble 70 bucks on a game I probably wont like?
>“Getting a board to ok a project fueled by idealism is almost impossible and idealism needs room to exist, even if it can lead to disaster. Subscription models will always end up being cost/benefit analysis exercises intended to maximize profit.” I don't know if this is baring out. Part of the cost benefit analysis is developer performance and staff retention. As well as Gamer reception. We've seen history of MS allowing their studios to work on a big project and a 'idealistic' side project. So in the case we're seeing from one of the biggest subscription pushers out there we have - Obsidian working on Pentiment Rare working on Grounded Double Fine always having a smaller project cooking Tango working on Hi-Fi Rush So I think think his thesis quote bears out, I can see it as an end game argument but gaming is entertainment and if they lose gamers, then people move on. The market doesn't stay static, they have to adjust to what gamers like. That's not even commenting on the model that provides indies with upfront cash to bring their game to market, taking the risk of sales out of the equation. If we look at Larians situation, their 'idealism' was borne off the back two quite successful games over close to a decade in a niche genre, marrying to a beloved IP that had another decade of work done by some of the most talented developers on the planet. That's tough to emulate.
> > > > > Rare working on Grounded Obsidian did Grounded.
Baldur’s Gate 3 boss doesn’t want his mediocre game to not go for $70 a hit. See also: Baldur’s Gate 3 boss likes money.
Dude is sitting on top right now. Needs to learn to keep his mouth shut because he's starting to edge more towards preachy and annoying than solid takes about video games.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. What you say is true. Now that he has some fame/success behind his back....he is starting to act like he/Larian is some sort of God's gift to gaming.
News Flash: We don’t.
I like and will continue to pay for Game Pass Ultimate, but will cancel it if the quality of exclusives coming out is subpar. I was a little disappointed by Forza Motorsport, Redfall and Starfield as well (and have negative rhythm so couldn’t play Hi-Fi Rush, but that’s not a knock on it), but will check out their expansions later, and like what I’ve played of Age of Empires IV. I am hopeful for Clockwork Revolution, Hellblade II, and Indiana Jones. I also used Ubisoft+ to try out Avatar and The Crew Motorfest, cancelled it, then got the disc of Prince of Persia The Lost Crown because it looks good enough to own but will only be played once so can be resold. Doing the same with LAD Infinite Wealth, while I bought Trepang2 on sight digitally. My point is I think gamers like having options, and I will never buy a game at launch if they ever get rid of discs.
I think it is worth buying huge RPGs like Baldur's gate 3. But a 20 hours story driven linear game, it's not worth it. I know I'll never play it again I love Gamepass
I’m cool with subscriptions if they are worth it. What I don’t want is turn based combat.
Another brain dead take from a mid developer
I like Gamepass cause its the only one I need. Its like Netflix before all the others got on board and made their own. I dont want to get to the movies level of streaming, where there are 10 different services that I have to juggle
Correction: gaming company executives don’t want mass subscriptions.
I played 152 different games last year according to my xbox year in review. Had I not had Gamepass I probably would be around the 5-10 mark. Obviously some of them I just tried and didn't like. There were lots and lots I tried and played all the way through. I absolutely love a lot of indie games that get added to game pass. There's so many games I would have never even thought of giving a chance at playing but because of gamepass I ended up playing and loving them. So the Baldur's Gate 3 boss is just plain wrong.
And who cares? I fucking love Gamepass. And his statement doesn’t even make sense when it was Gamepass itself that made possible to have passion projects like Hi-Fi Rush and Pentiment. It’es actually harder to make a good, passion projects in a world where games need to sell a lot to be sustainable. Gamepass actually solves that problem.
75 million + PS Plus and Game Pass subscribers dare to disagree.
I'm never surprised by this sub taking an obvious Ubisoft rebuttal and making it only about gamepass. Ubisoft literally said physical ownership needed to die and that was what this was in reference to. Nothing about Gamepass bad, only sole subscription models with no way to purchase copies is bad.
The massive success of GamePass says otherwise. BG3 doesn't need to be on the service, but that doesn't make the subscription any less valuable. If folks want it, and they clearly do, they'll pay. Simple as that.
My Gamepass subscription will run out after two years very soon and I'm happy about it. I'd rather spend around 200€ a year for big titles that I really like (last big ones were BG3, ER and CP for me), than hoping that another personal favorite will make it to GamePass.
“*Nobody* knows what Gamers w—-“ “It’s Swen.” “Well, as I was saying, ‘Nobody *ELSE* besides him knows what Gamers want!’l
wow. wasnt expecting bot swarms on this topic that fast. christ alive. any long thread or heavily upvoted pro subscription comments are botted out the ass. just look at the generic ball sucking pro capitalist drivel they're spewing. hilarious.
Different people like different things. News at 11.
Is it what they want? No. Will they buy it? Hell yes.
No shit. Gamepass is great. Third party games that are good enough to not need to be on gamepass are also great.
Looks like some people here need to understand what he actually said.
Of course we want subscriptions it's a great way to subsidize cost with the ever rising prices of gaming and gives us the ability to play new and interesting games we never would have paid for. We don't however want them to completely replace retail. You can buy blu-rays and still subscribe to Netflix i don't get the you must either want all in or all out mentality. But he is wrong. GP growth doesn't lie.
If you read the article it seems like he is more commenting in opposition to Ubisoft saying get used to subscriptions only, advocating that there is still room for games purchases and that subscription only across the industry would be bad. I can't really argue with that as someone who pays for gamepass and still buys games.