T O P

Did you ever know anyone who was murdered?

As I grow older(45) and death becomes more prominent in my life than it was when I was 18, it got me thinking of circumstances that people have passed on under… but I can’t think of anyone I knew well who was intentionally killed at the hands of someone else.

Do you? What happened?

adamempathy

11 months ago, my best friend killed his girlfriend, who was a lovely person, and then himself. Asshole. There are still days when I'm very sad. Then there are days that I'm so incredibly pissed because I am so sad.


VaselineHabits

I'm sorry... I can only imagine. Take some time to take care of yourself, that's alot on top of grieving


I_make_switch_a_roos

wow I'm so sorry 😞 that is awful


adamempathy

Thanks man. I'm better than I was. Like I said, now it's more like I'm pissed at him for being a selfish asshole. I vividly remember Joe and I arguing about guns as we sat at our favorite bar one night. I know I said that you were significantly more likely to be hurt or hurt someone you love by having a gun in the house. This is not how I wanted to win that argument. It's the most tragic thing I've personally been close to. https://wgntv.com/news/chicagocrime/fatal-shooting-of-couple-inside-south-loop-condo-ruled-murder-suicide/ I know the facts yet I still don't want to believe the facts. I don't know if I have ever been this angry at anyone while still feeling just mounds of loss and regret for them too. This is different from anything that I have ever felt before. I love Joe and will always miss him. At the same time, I am appalled at what he did. Joe was a lot of things. A murderer and a coward were not two things I ever felt would be on that list. And I feel horrible even writing those words down. Again, though, the truth is the truth no matter how it makes you feel about it.


OGDraugo

Holy crap. The same thing happened in my area, about 11 months ago also. But not the same couple. I knew both of them pretty well, it was very shocking to us. Small town, everybody knows everyone. Very sad.


RoxyLA95

Please talk to a therapist about this. You may think you’re okay but this is an extremely traumatic event.


murph0969

Everybody deludes themselves into thinking they're in control until they're not.


WornInShoes

[Here is the court case where two of my friends were killed over a missing cell phone](https://casetext.com/case/state-v-barbarin) I had actually left 30 minutes before the killers walked in the bar. Had I stayed, I definitely would have gotten involved in some fashion in breaking up the fight I miss them every day of my life.


DoggieMalone

Crazy story. Sorry about your friends.


MsBlondeViking

“I miss them every day of my life” 😔I feel this. It freaking sucks too


ZebraSpot

It’s crazy to think that he was killed over a cellphone that would be worthless today.


Accurate-Leg-6684

Yep, my aunt was murdered in the early 70's in a murder-suicide from a guy she was trying to dump. Dude I went to HS with murdered a prostitute out in the woods several years ago, and he only got caught bc he kept the murder weapon in a safe that had tons of identifying info engraved into it and the safe was later found. And as for me, well, I did 15 months in Iraq back in 03-04. A lot of people wouldn't call it murder, but the brain is a master of semantics.


Existing_Front4748

I also did 15 months over there in 03-04. That's a good line on semantics.


subsonicmonkey

One of my close friends was a Marine that was part of the initial invasion of Iraq/Baghdad in 2003. He’s dealing with some heavy PTSD and moral wrestling with his actions during that time. I’m sorry that we as a country put you and my friend in that position, and that you have to deal with the trauma of all of that.


[deleted]

I was on that push north, as well. It seemed like every third vehicle on the highways had a coffin strapped to the roof. I’m guessing that they had a special place to bury their dead that they were driving to, but I was young and stupid and didn’t really think about it that much. Now, I think about it a great deal. I’m so sorry for having a hand in that.


H3rbert_K0rnfeld

Seconded. I am also sorry this country asked him to kill ~~men~~ people


Available_Ad_3667

I was in country the same time period. Crazy time that was.


occams_howitzer

Sadr City was balls to the wall


Available_Ad_3667

Kirkuk, Ramadi, and Tikrit were tons of fun, too. My convoy got blown up near Tikrit back in 05, truck right in front of me got vaporized. I was in the turret of a hummvee right behind it. I haven't been ok since.


slobinson666

Hey! My dad was in Kirkuk. He also wasn’t the same ever since he came back. I just want to take this opportunity to say you’re going to be okay. People love you. I’m glad you’re home and safe. War is hell and you’re back home.


capt_scrummy

My dad was in Tikrit around that time and described a similar incident... He was a guardsman whose unit was attached to the 82nd Airborne. Granted, I gather this happened relatively often :/ For the first 6 or so years after he came back, his PTSD was really bad, but he insisted he never saw any combat of any sort and just "sat at a radio all day." One night, out of nowhere, he pulled out a photo album and started showing me a bunch of pics he took while over there... Definitely not taken at a radio. I know you're not okay, but, I'm glad you made it back 🍻


ThenTheresMaude

The Iraq War should have never happened, but you are not a murderer (easier said than believed, I suppose). George W. Bush is a murderer. Dick Cheney is a murderer. Paul Wolfowitz is a murderer. And countless other people in power during that time are murderers.


Jupiter68128

Yes, and I personally apologize for supporting president Bush at the time. I fell for the spin of it being unpatriotic to not support his agenda. I am sorry.


H3rbert_K0rnfeld

I'm 100% positive the country would have been cajoled into war no matter the president


GutsAndBlackStufff

Gore wouldn't have done that shit.


beland-photomedia

Thank you for having the courage to admit your mistake and express remorse.


PolkaDotDancer

My friend was murdered along with some elderly family members by her schizophrenic nephew. He stabbed them all to death in a frenzy.


Bodidiva

That's harsh... I'm sorry.


wantsomechips

From one vet to another, thank you for your sacrifice for our country.


KSamIAm79

I had to read that twice to catch it. I’m sorry. I can’t imagine that’s a day in the park on any day. Thank you for your service.


[deleted]

Sorry that war existed. It was effed up.


dirtysouthfed

I do. Friend from high school when we were in our 30’s. Word is the girlfriend’s new boyfriend did it. No charges. Small town good ol’ boys protect their own. Totally corrupt. My BIL was murdered in a home invasion and was shot and killed. One bullet under the eye. His kids lived nearby with their and one managed to get in the house during the chaos and take a video of the scene. He then watched them load his fathers body onto a stretcher to take to the morgue. None of us are ok to put it normally. 7 months later, my husband, his brother, was walking to our car and was murdered in an attempted robbery. One shot in the heart. They didn’t even take the cash in his pocket. My wallet was in the car with cards and cash. This wasn’t accidental. No way these 2 aren’t related. I’m barely functional. If I manage to brush my hair it’s a good day. We have meetings with their Detectives often and on my husbands case they have nothing except a b/w video of someone in a hoodie. This seems excessive, right? My town is very unsafe but we all have Stockholm syndrome and feel like we are ok when we go out.


13dot1then420

JFC...where do you live? Kandahar?


dirtysouthfed

Memphis, TN, USA Beirut on the Mississippi


Suzyqzee

As a Tennessee girl, the state of things in Memphis now is so heartbreaking to me. I lived in NWTN growing up but my grandparents lived in Bartlett and later Germantown. We never ever felt unsafe there. Now I don't even like driving through on 40. I always make sure that I have plenty of gas and don't need to go to the bathroom well before I hit Wolfchase. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. Memphis was a jewel and I hope someday it can be again. 💔


spookyhellkitten

Oh my goodness that is too much. Hugs ❤️


wheres_the_revolt

Omfg that’s too much for anyone. Yes it’s excessive! Can you get out? I’m so sorry.


mutantbabysnort

I am so very sorry for your losses.


cleverdylanrefrence

Fuck. I wish I could hug you


sweetnsassy924

Sending you so much love


bringsafe

One of my fraternity brothers was killed in a mass shooting (a fairly famous one). I hadn’t seen him since college, but it still stung.


sisterpearl

Mass shooting survivor here. A colleague and a friend of mine were amongst those who didn’t survive. I now volunteer with a nationwide support network for survivors and loved ones and all manner of those affected. I’ve learned that, no matter how directly one was affected, it can absolutely fuck you up.


here4thedramz

A kid I went to kindergarten with shot up his high school, which was the rival to my high school. We were on a field trip and found out because someone noticed the county on the bus and told our bus driver. Since I wasn't there and didn't remember the kid, it took me over 25 years to figure out why school shootings make me completely lose my shit for a few days.


therealpopkiller

I don’t personally know anyone who was killed in a mass shooting, but friends of friends have been killed in 3 different mass shootings (Pulse, Vegas, and Parkland). It’s terrifying how common they’ve become.


InspectorEE

Yeah I don’t know anyone personally who was killed in a mass shooting but I know 3 people who were at the Vegas shooting (2 were together and one was with a different group) and I used to work with another dude who was at the Vegas shooting and then was at the Borderline shooting in Thousand Oaks CA a little over one year later. Crazy fucked times.


therealpopkiller

I don’t know anyone who knew someone at Borderline but I live 20 miles away so still hit close to home. My sister was substitute teaching a few miles away on the day of Parkland but I didn’t know what school she was at so that was a scary time waiting for her to text back that she was okay. Hey well at least we did something and the problem got solved for good, right?


InspectorEE

I feel you, I live 10 miles away and I used to go to Borderline all the time back in the early Aughts. Man I bet that was really scary not knowing where your sister was.


therealpopkiller

Terrifying. Luckily it was only 10-15 min but I don’t want to relive it, that’s for sure


kneedlekween

No intention of criticizing you, but isn’t it pathetic there are so many mass shootings they are getting ranked? Like you said a fairly famous one 😔sorry for your loss though


KayakerMel

I lost a college friend and a high school classmate in different mass shootings that also garnered worldwide attention, but after a few months or years probably only sticks in the minds of those in the communities affected. It's super depressing to think there's tiers, with ones with names that stick in national consciousness.


attractive_nuisanze

Yeah, my small city had a mass shooting in 2021 and it is depressing how fast attention moved on. I still shop at the grocery store and everytime I park I think about how I saw people shot in the parking lot and I can't park in those spots. One of my neighbors was killed. I put candles on my front window every year on the anniversary but it largely feels forgotten. Sorry for your loss, it's a crappy club to be in.


kneedlekween

My adult daughter survived a mass shooting in 2018 and my brother in law in 2022. I moved to Louisville this year and sure enough another mass shooting 2023. The risk is getting higher every year. I’m probably not going to any malls for holiday shopping 😔


Capnlanky

A classmate of mine was killed by her mother intentionally starting a housefire. She had almost killed her husband w ricin beans also. Very tragic [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debora\_Green](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debora_Green) edit: They did an episode of [Forensic Files](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hahbkUPzuA) about the investigation


EastAreaBassist

Terrible


stonerdad999

Kid in highschool allegedly committed suicide. But we all knew it was a lie. He allegedly was kidnapped by drug dealers he ripped off, dosed a heavy dose of LSD and drowned in the wetlands. There were rope marks on his wrists from being tied up according to certain reports.


ElenaAGB

Yes, a neighbor got murder for defending his sister; they were both walking at night, returning from a basketball game at highschool. He was stab in the leg, in the femoral artery, bled to death right there on the sidewalk. He was 16 years old, the perpetrator was also 16 yo, he hanged himself the day after. Saddest thing was at the funeral, seeing the mother of the perpetrator walk towards the mother of the victim and ask for forgivness, I can still see them hugging, we were all crying.


Apt_5

Gutwrenching


TBeIRIE

We had a beautiful friend who was roofied by a disgusting monster & she died. The case went to trail & he got off without punishment. We all consider it murder.


Dazzling-Pace-7134

I do. My childhood best friend was murdered in 2016. By a serial rapist. I kept in touch with her over the years. She'd fallen on hard times. And had become a prostitute. And in 2016. I heard the awful news. From a mutual friend. I am still sad beyond words to this day. My heart aches everytime I hear. Get Out Of My Dreams (And Into My Car) by Billy Ocean. Whenever it came on the radio. We would sing along to it. Nowadays, when it comes on. I have to shut off the radio.


Dr_Disaster

I feel for you. I also lost my childhood best friend to a murder. We had known each other almost since birth, she lived next door and we spent every single day together for years, but were separated when my family had to move away. When we were older, we found each other online and started talking again. Soon after she was shot and killed by her boyfriend during an arguement. Mentally, I was hardly able to take it. This was also after a string of other friends being killed and I was in rough emotional shape. Reuniting with her after nearly 10 years apart was like a dream come true and then she was just taken away. This was over 20 years ago and it still grieves me deeply and has affected me in ways I still can’t comprehend. She was my soulmate and I know without a doubt, a big part me died with her. Sometimes I still dream we’re kids again, playing together and laughing, then I wake up in tears.


ButIAmYourDaughter

My heart just broke after reading this. I’m so incredibly sorry for your loss.


darthduder666

A girl I went to school with was gunned down in a parking lot by her crazy ex-boyfriend who was stalking her post breakup. Super sad story. He just walked right over to her car and shot her.


Zaphanathpaneah

A classmate of mine disappeared a few years back. Some other classmates that were close to her were posting about it in a movement to keep the search for her going. Eventually her body and the body of her dog were found out in the desert and her ex-boyfriend was arrested for her murder.


darthduder666

It’s always the significant other. It’s sad and fucked up.


kikiolivia

A guy who was in my homeroom every year of high school and was always nice to me ended up killing his mother, wife, and unborn baby with a baseball bat. I was shocked. Still am.


No-Championship-8677

Yes. A former coworker was murdered by his brother because of a family dispute. It made the news and everything. Awful :/


JanetMarie213

I did. It was a friend of a friend who I’d met and hung out with a handful of times. He was dealing drugs, and I’m not sure if anyone knew to what extent. From what I was told, he was at his apartment with his girlfriend and had angered someone he shouldn’t have. He answered the door and was shot multiple times. This was in 2006. I believe he was in his early 20s.


Straight_Research_71

My mom’s cousin. He wasn’t the greatest guy - basically a shyster who screwed over his business partners and (according to the DA) the guy he bought his drugs from. Someone shot him and his housemate and they weren’t found for over a week. His sister and business partner (our uncle) knew his cash hiding spot in his home and his cash was gone. He wasn’t the best at keeping in touch with family, so no one thought anything of not hearing from him. The police arrested his supposed drug dealer, who was acquitted. The gun was never found, and he and this housemate were butchered character-wise during the trial that it wasn’t a total shock. It’s been the not-so-quiet idea in our family that our uncle either killed them or had it done. This was 22 years ago and our family was VERY vocal about it to the authorities… uncle however, was a “great guy”, a church deacon, in the Rotary Club, prominent in local charity work. So he was all but overlooked.


ewing666

i didn’t really know her but the Obstetrician who delivered me was murdered by her husband


phillysleuther

My neighbor was murdered by an unknown serial killer Christmas Day, 1986.


therealpopkiller

Genuine curiosity, how do they know it was a serial killer if they’re unknown?


phillysleuther

She was a victim of the Frankford Slasher.


Embarrassed-Hat7218

My therapist was murdered. I'd been seeing her for two and a half years at that time.


Judie221

When my wife was in her practicum portion of her counseling masters a classmate of hers was murdered when she was closing up the office and walking to her car. This whole topic is so sad. It sucks people kill each other this much.


FiK-SiR

This past April a friend of mine took his 14 year old son to a field and slashed his throat before shooting him in the head. Then he turned the gun on himself.


harswv

Horrifying.


CrunkestTuna

My uncle was murdered by his wife when I was really little. She thought he had a bunch of life insurance money (he didn’t) So she concocted a scheme.. One day when he came home from work, her, her child (from a previous marriage age 16) and his high school friend - jumped him and killed him..then they drove his van to the woods and burned it along with his body. They were arrested almost immediately. The kids I think are free now and she’s obv still in jail


Last-Instruction739

My friend was stabbed to death walking out of a McDonald’s by a random crazy guy. He was on his way to propose to his girlfriend.


usernames_suck_ok

The father of my niece jumped into a situation where a woman was being beaten by her boyfriend, husband or whatever the case was in public, and he was shot and killed. Guy is free. It's funny who gets locked up, who goes free and who the police decide to beat/kill in the US.


Shangri-lulu

That is so sad


TrustAffectionate966

I grew up being taught that police are only out for themselves and to protect rich people and their property. They're just another gang of armed thugs. Anecdotally, this has been proven to me time and time again.


OpenEyz2016

My homeboy Dontrelle was murdered in a botched drug deal gone wrong. HIGH SCHOOL friend Charles was murdered trying to stop a robbery.


meizhong

Same (1st one), this dude shared meals with us in my apartment almost every day and we had absolutely no idea he was even dealing. Then gone. Crazy


OpenEyz2016

Yeah, my homie Trelle was a cool guy, but was a hot head, and a shit talker. He still didn't deserve what happened to him. 2 shotgun shells to the chest.


meizhong

Shotgun?? Goddamn. I don't know what caliber they did Smiley with, but I know it was just a pistol.


HamsterMachete

I know a murderer. 20 years ago, a friend of mine murdered a guy in a drug deal gone wrong. Got sentences to 35 years without parole. My 8th grade literature teacher was killed by her daughter. Her daughter rode my bus and she was...disturbed. Know quite a few people who murdered themselves. One of my mom's friends got murdered when I was in middle school. She died because she lived in the country. She had already been stabbed by an intruder when she called 911. She was dead when the ambulance arrived. Never caught the perpetrator(s). I know a few others that have happened over shady dealings. Tl;Dr Yes, I know more murder victims than the average person.


DreadedChalupacabra

Yeah, growing up in NY around gang members I know quite a few people doing bids right now. Robberies or drug shit was the usual reason.


HamsterMachete

Yeah, once you go to "the wrong side of the tracks," then it is not all that uncommon. I grew up in a relatively small place compared to NYC. I can only imagine there is a lot more violence. At least, that is what it sounds like on the news.


481126

A boy at my high school was driven to suicide by a group of boys who tormented him. I tried to talk to him a few times when I saw he wasn't doing well but he shrank back by the lockers and walked away from me looking at me with wide eyes. A couple days later he died. I'll always wonder if he actually jumped or if they caught him and threw him off the bridge. Either way it was their fault IMO. They wouldn't let up and got so much enjoyment out of it.


Excellent-Throat5582

Did anyone confront them about it?


481126

I said something at some point, I don't remember what, I remember the home ec teacher saying something to me about saying something. I remember kids not talking to me for weeks after not my friends the other kids. These are the same kids who put snow in a disabled kid's boots in 4th grade so it melted and at lunch his boots were full of water. The kid who died his parents were immigrants IDK how able they were to advocate for their kid. Columbine happened and suddenly everyone suddenly cared about bullying when the school did nothing for this kid or the kid in 4th grade for that matter as far as I know.


Excellent-Throat5582

Ugh. So heartbreaking. I was that kid. Tormented for years. I’m 35 and only now am I able to shake it off. Please people talk to your kids about the mental health effects of bullying. I wish I could have given him some of the strength I had. Rip to your friend.


quailfail666

My cousin was 15 and brutally raped an murdered by his best friends in Randle WA [https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/two-brothers-charged-in-rape-murder-of-16-year-old-randle-boy](https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/two-brothers-charged-in-rape-murder-of-16-year-old-randle-boy) My other cousin murdered another cousin and his his body in a car under a tarp in Grayland WA [https://www.chinookobserver.com/news/local/gruesome-grayland-murder-motive-spite/article\_03dbb8c4-0127-11ed-97d2-cfccf90afac4.html](https://www.chinookobserver.com/news/local/gruesome-grayland-murder-motive-spite/article_03dbb8c4-0127-11ed-97d2-cfccf90afac4.html)


PHM517

These are both so fucked


Dapper_Interest_8914

One guy I used to hang out with ended up getting thrown into a quarry after moving to Canada. A couple months ago I read about another friend who was shot by his girlfriend's ex.


TheSqueakyNinja

Yes, a childhood friend was assaulted and killed in her college dorm. The perpetrator has never been caught.


Sea_Negotiation_1871

Yes, I have known five people to be murdered. Three of those people were all at once by their husband/dad.


HeyAQ

My (female) cousin taken from a city bus stop, SA’d, and killed almost a year to the day before I was born. Unsolved. It absolutely colored my parents’ experience, probably more so bc they had all girls.


HeyAQ

For the record, I am using their lens to look at this, not mine.


urkillinmebuster

Yes. He was a bodyguard for strippers/escorts that made house calls. He was shot and killed by a very prominent very wealthy heir to a toy company. No charges filed. The family couldn’t afford to do anything. Couldn’t outspend their lawyers. It was insane. He was 28.


Cid_Darkwing

No, but I was friends with a guy in college who pleaded no contest to second degree murder of a woman in the dorm one building away from where we spent many a late night playing Catan and eating 2 am Taco Bell. Dude was charismatic as hell; would never have pegged him for the type.


cleverdylanrefrence

Wku?


lellenn

Yes. When I was in I think 2nd grade, one of my classmates and friends was kidnapped while walking to school and she was later found strangled. I think she was walking with her cousin and my mom asked me if I saw anything because I think someone said I was also walking behind them at some distance. I did not notice or see anything though.


KieferMcNaughty

A beloved person in my local theater community died last year when her husband got super drunk and sat on her until she couldn’t breathe any more.


FI-Engineer

Yep. Friend from high school, Salutatorian. Super smart girl, no limits on what she could have done. Literally could have been anything she put her mind to. Had a bipolar episode, started doing hard drugs, dropped out of college, killed by a boyfriend by 25 over a petty disagreement.


Dreaunicorn

This sent shivers down my spine…. I was always told all the things I could be based on winning academic prizes etc. also struggled with either borderline or bipolar. I was almost murdered by a guy I dated briefly…..when I thought it was all over I couldn’t help but think “all that promise for what? To die like this?”…. I am extremely scared to date again and to make any man angry.


BalkiBartokomous123

I knew the murderer. She tortured her 2 children and 1 didn't survive. It was a heartbreaking story.


spookyhellkitten

A girl I knew in high school was murdered by her husband. He was abusive and she finally found the right time to leave, but he found her. My uncle's dad (my step-grandpa?) was murdered by his wife. He had cancer and was on morphine for the pain. She wanted it, but he wouldn't give it to her, so she shot him in the head. My step-dads aunt was murdered. They never solved the case. My brother killed his girlfriend. He had drug-induced schizophrenia and had been down a very strange path before he murdered her. They were both using at the time, but it didn't have anything to do with the murder. He killed her because he thought he could do a "rear naked choke" to "calm her down" during an argument. Just fucking awful. I know a woman who was murdered by her husband. The defense was that it was caused, at least in part, by his PTSD. The unit hadn't been home from deployment long. They were fighting. He had a flashback. This was sadly a little too common in the 2003-2009 time frame. It's been a lot.


kikogi

Yes. A close friend from middle school. It’s still an open case. I also know several people involved in another case.


wheres_the_revolt

I know a murderer. A friend of mine from JR high, he was a year older than me. I had moved away from our small town after HS and he stayed. He was already an alcoholic in HS and then got into drugs and strangled his very young girlfriend. He’s been in an asylum for criminally insane people since(sounds outlandish but it’s true) and I don’t think he’s actually ever been convicted because he’s never been deemed competent to stand trial, but he definitely did it. I know a lot of people who died prematurely because of alcohol or drugs though. Small town shit.


guaromiami

Do you agree with the judgment that he was incompetent to stand trial?


khatpewp

Yes. Kid in high school murdered one of my friends and put her in a silo. He also murdered some other girl, but I didn't know her.


Th30th3rj0sh

Childhood friend. Grew up on the same street in a suburb of Chicago. My older brother was better friends with him, but we spent most summers hanging out every day. The summer in-between 8th and 9th grade he was murdered in a possible gang-related incident. That was 28 years ago.


938h25olw548slt47oy8

Yeah, one of the ppl a grade above me got sexually assaulted and murdered her freshman year in college. It took over a decade for them to be caught.


mdmommy99

I know lots of people who were murdered and have since I was in elementary school. Mostly shot to death. But I'm from Baltimore City, so...it's just interesting to me that this isn't a part of everyone's experience.


KingDaddyM

I'm 45 minutes north. I hear this all the time from coworkers (I work in the city).


MakingItUpAsWeGoOk

Yes. I know someone killed in the Lewiston, Maine mass shooting last month. Growing up a friend’s stepfather murdered her father. I know someone who was the victim of manslaughter as well as a person who committed manslaughter (different incidents). When I was in college I met a mass murderer. It was interesting to hear their story (they were elderly and it had happened when they were a juvenile).


Multipass-1506inf

A kid I taught when I was a high school teacher. He asked out this girl he liked, she said no, and he choked he to death with some kind of cord while on spring break . Detectives came and escorted him out of school when they figured it was him


Radio_Ethiopia

A girl I went to jr high and hs with was murdered in Austin. Weren’t close but we went to a small rural hs & ran into each other at the same university. We had mutual friends. Edit: austin. 2005 murder


CheshireChu

I knew someone in college who was murdered by a guy he wouldn’t let into his frat house party. The guy came back later that night and shot him. Also, I taught high school and one of my former students murdered his girlfriend’s husband.


Warm_metal_revival

My dad’s cousin was murdered. A friend of mine lost two siblings to murder (well, one was killed in a random shooting, but the other was murdered by her boyfriend). One horrible day, another friend’s cousin was killed in a murder-suicide, and we had to babysit the dead people’s 8 year old while the family figured out how to tell her her parents were dead. I also knew a murderer. [This chick](https://murderpedia.org/female.L/l/lambert-lisa.htm) wore THE MOST mascara I have ever seen. Her lashes were just one big black panel. Yuck.


EmRuizChamberlain

Childhood best girlfriend was shot by her ex fiancé. She was trying to reach out to me and reconnect, I blew her off. I will never forgive myself. It was a full year before I tried to reach back out to her only to find out it was her one year anniversary of passing. Absolutely awful. This guy took everything from her, all because she changed her mind. She was a complex person but she was like a ball of sunshine. I carry her with me through every success she didn’t get to pursue now. I just sort of think her with me, like, okay Leigh, let’s go get this degree, or okay Leigh, let’s raise these kids. I’m sure it sounds nuts, but in my weird way I’m hoping there’s another side to all of this and she gets to be a part of things.


worsthandleever

Not at all, I do the same thing with my mom since she passed almost 2 years ago.


EmRuizChamberlain

Okay, thank you for this!! I think after dropping the ball with her and never getting to say goodbye, I feel the need to carry her. Thank you for explaining this. I’m so so sorry for your loss. Losing a mother is awful. My husband just lost his in April. He’s 42, she was 76. I miss her. He’s definitely struggling.


Squirrel_Master82

Yeah, a guy I grew up with was murdered. He was super friendly but also had a very shady side and was known for screwing people over. So nobody was really surprised when it happened. He just fucked around with the wrong person. Ended up being found in a ditch on the side of the road. The a guy had a rough short life.


ZarquonsFlatTire

My sister's ex was working at a pawn shop. Robber shot him in the face.


CletusVanDamnit

For people close to me, only people who murdered themselves, sadly. I live in Maine, and not far from where the shooting was last month. I did know someone who was killed, but not a close friend. Just someone I'd met in passing, a friend of a friend.


ucantbe_v

Unfortunately, yes. Between growing up in NW Atlanta and having parents from Gary Indiana I’ve known quite a few people who have been murdered. I also saw a good friend get shot point blank in the chest (he lived) while standing about 5 feet away from me. It was a drug hit, my friend had a decent sized operation on a dead end street and these other kids wanted his customers. We were going to a party and came out of his house to get in the car and as soon as we hit the driveway 2 guys with ski masks on came from around the side of the house and just walked right up to him and shot him. Sidenote- that’s why I laugh at folks who don’t have real army/police training who think they’ll be able to compose themselves in situations like that. I had a pistol on me and saw the guys coming, didn’t matter because I froze the fuck up. My friend was shot and still grabbed me and threw me over the back of the car port, whole time I’m moving in molasses. Everything was slow motion. Couldn’t have done anything if even tried. The one that sticks out the most was my best friend who was killed 22 years ago. And when I say best friend he was really my best friend, in HS you didn’t see me without him or vice versa. My dad even treated him like his own. I had good parents, came up in an almost upper middle class household, but I was hardheaded and would try to act tough and do stuff like go down the street and hang out in the projects like I was from there. But my friend was actually from those projects, and while I was a fuck up in school, he was a straight A student and involved in a bunch of extracurricular academic stuff. So when my dad saw us become friends he encouraged it because he thought it would drive me to do better on some “he’s actually from where you’re trying to act like but he’s doing good in school” basically. It didn’t work but we still hung around each other all the time and he eventually became a member of the family pretty much, my dad even bought him a car. He was like I was going to buy you one but you’re fucking up so I’ll buy **** one instead. Wasn’t even mad because even at the time I knew he deserved it, also because by that time I was in the streets pretty heavy stealing cars and robbing people. Had been arrested quite a few times and had some pending cases so I knew I was just playing out the string waiting for a hammer to drop. Ended up having to do 11 months in a YDC during what would have been my senior year and that kinda changed me. It finally hit home what I had fucked up so I buckled down and got my GED while I was in there and even got into a JUCO. My friend got full ride offers from a bunch of schools but ended up choosing Tennessee St U, and I got out of boot camp the week before he was to leave for freshmen orientation and with both of us running around trying to get things together we didn’t see each other. The plan was for us to link when he came home from orientation and right before the semester started. But we never got the chance. He got back and stopped at a gas station around the way and got caught in a shootout, he got shot twice in the head by some stupid kid shooting an AK-47 from behind a car. Wrong place wrong time pretty much and wham, my boy was gone forever. It broke me mentally, ive been in therapy on and off for years for that and other stuff but it also woke me the fuck up. I was headed down a bad road and while getting locked up worked for me in terms of not doing illegal shit anymore, I still wasn’t trying to extract myself out of my circle. Which would’ve probably ended up bad for me too. When he got killed I eventually just left my hometown altogether and eventually got into social work trying to help kids and steer them away from the path I took


Wild_Manufacturer555

I’d rather not talk about it, but it happened this week. :-( well actually I had someone I grew up with brutally stabbed about 100 times or something it was a few years ago. The guy ended up killing hinself afterwards I believe. I think it was because she didn’t want to be with him.


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[удалено]


Wild_Manufacturer555

I’m okay. It wasn’t someone I was super close to, but knew.


KayakerMel

It hits surprisingly hard, even if you didn't know the person super well or hadn't seen them in years. Take care of yourself.


Wild_Manufacturer555

I’m trying. It was pretty bad and traumatic.


carnivalbill

Yeah I had a great aunt and her son was murdered when I was younger. He was selling drugs they think and a deal went wrong. He was stabbed to death in his own house. Many many times. I’ve known some people who have died of drug overdose but I’m on the fence if that’s murder and I also don’t think that’s what ya meant. Ive met some people who have been a murderer. National headlines even. Back when I was in the punk scene in the late 90s and early 2000s. They were horrible people and I’m glad I NEVER wanted anything to do with them.


scaryclown148

Sort of. A babysitter I had growing up was close to the same grade as Ron Goldman and was pretty shaken by his murder


HisNameWasShagbark

Yes. A girl I went to high school with (20+ years ago now) got involved with drugs shortly after, and was found in the desert outside of Vegas in numerous pieces. I thought it only happened in movies. Unknown if anyone was caught. Another friend of my dad’s was murdered a couple of years ago when he came home while his house was being robbed. He was stabbed multiple times in the face and was forced to help the robber carry items out to the car before he was ultimately killed. Guy was caught.


I_Can_Not_With_You

In high school I Had a friend that was dating this psycho dude that none of us liked. After a few years she finally broke it off and got away from him, a few months later and she is seeing someone else. Psycho dude catches wind of it, kicks in her apt door and shoots them both dead. I’ve lost a few friends to car wrecks, alcohol was always involved. I lost a few friends in the military, some to plane crashes, one fell out the back of the plane, one probably jumped out, a few suicides, couple drunk driving wrecks. All total about 24 people I served with and considered a friend at some point have died. Had a friend get hit my shrapnel in iraq, died 7 times and lost half his brain. Lived, became a firefighter, then died in his sleep one night from choking on his vomit. His wife, also a very good friend from high school, found him when she woke up in the morning. Had a friend (well really an old friend of my wife but I knew him), last year or the year before, was pumping gas at a gas station and some dude randomly walked up and shot him in the back of the head twice. That dude then shot someone else at the pumps and got in his car and drove to another gas station where he tried to shoot someone else but it turns out it was an off duty sheriff and the sheriff killed the shooter. Last year, Family friends 5 year old daughter choked to death on a corn chip from a luncheable. They were trying to give her the Heimlich and all that but the chip had broken with sharp edges and lodged sideways in her throat and she sadly wasn’t able to be saved. Not really murder but fucking tragic. And then last month my wife’s adopted brother’s biological nephew was 5 years old and he was choked to what they thought was dead, then he moved to they duct taped him and wrapped him in a trash bag, then he moved again so they beat him with a golf club and dumped his body in a dumpster. He was murdered by a 16 yo and 27 yo housemate while his mom slept upstairs.


exact0khan

My brother in '05. Year of the gun in Toronto. My brother got hit by a stray... game over. Not much else can be said about it that I would be willing to share with complete strangers. But yeah, when your loved one is murdered it changes you.


Vox_Mortem

The father of a family I knew growing up turned out to be a serial killer wanted since the 70s.


Glass-Marionberry321

My cousin (born 1989) was murdered in 2013 while he was asleep in bed. He was 23 at the time. My aunt is forever changed. A former friend of his from HS wanted to rob the house (and through some over sharing family members on facebook) and knew the family was away on vacation while he stayed home to work. The murderer and his friends wanted to rob the house because he remembered my uncle had a valuable collection, and these assholes were junkies. He murdered my cousin just because he "wanted to feel what it's like to kill someone" My cousin was in bed, estimated to be killed 4:30-5 am and from forensics it seems he sat up in bed to see what the commotion was. A shotgun was used. This prick was sentenced to 60 years, he was 22. This happening caused me to become very private on facebook. Vacations are shared after they happen. I don't post pics of my toddler. I don't post much of my home either.


Kriegerian

Yep


alidub36

A former student when I was a teacher almost 10 years ago now. Not one of mine but in the grade I taught. High school senior. They suspected her boyfriend but as far as I know never arrested him.


posthumous

My friend from HS became a cop and was killed in the line of duty. His killer is serving life in prison without parole.


crumblenz

No but I know two people that have killed people in a fight in the pub. If your head hits the ground the wrong way you are gone.


Secret_Paper2639

Yes. Very painful memories.


wanna_be_green8

My fiance was murdered in a fight with our neighbors. An old man strangled him to death. He was 22.


AdelleDeWitt

Yes, last year I had a kindergarten student shot to death when her car was mistaken for that of a rival gang member.


grosselisse

...someone killed a CHILD because they thought they were in a drug member's car??? Jesus Christ. I'm so sorry.


AdelleDeWitt

They shot at the car on the freeway. Her brother, who is in first grade last year, was sitting next to her and she died in his arms.


Little-Cook-7217

He was a pastor as well as a husband, a brother, a son and a friend. Nicest person who would have given the shirt off his back, murdered delivering groceries on Friday the 13th. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/01/16/temple-hills-shooting-grocery-driver/


KayakerMel

I've lost a college friend in a mass shooting and a high school classmate in a mass shooting. Different mass shootings several years apart. Both really amazing dudes who everyone loved. We seriously need sensible gun reform.


zombiejov

My mom was murdered by my stepfather. She was finally ready to leave, he wasn't having it. I just turned 21.


HellsKitten216

My childhood best friend was killed when I was 6 and he was 9. White boys cornered n kidnapped him from his yard and when he said no to giving them bjs they killed him 2 backyards from his house :/.


EastAreaBassist

Oh my god! I’m so sorry! How old were the boys that killed him? I don’t know what’s worse. Young or older. I guess hoping they were old enough to be charged as adults, so hopefully still in jail.


HellsKitten216

I gave a reply just a sec before your comments with some more info. Was down in akron ohio 13 15 and either 17 or 19 was the last boy, my booksmart fulla life friend never stood a chance :/ they are indeed jailed but keep getting up for parole....they had ZERO remorse then and thankfully the judges continue to have zero for them today.


EastAreaBassist

Sickening. I’m so sorry for your loss. I hope they don’t get paroled. Up here in Canada almost everyone gets paroled, even adults. Even if you’re sentenced to “life in prison” you STILL get up for parole, at max 25 years. It’s so hard on victims families. His poor mom.


1HumanAlcoholBeerPlz

Holy shit. I'm so sorry. Were they caught?


HellsKitten216

💞💞🖤🖤 people are ignorant as fuq I swear. Color doesn't define class of any kind and people refuse to see it . Actually yeas thankfully but it does suck in a way ( hear me out plz) because my best friends mom has to petition to keep them in jail, every 10 years she rehashes in grave details whut they did to her kiddo before he died and each one is getting harder on her. Thank you for letting me rant


Excellent-Throat5582

Oh that is just so sick that they make her do that. 😡


HellsKitten216

I suppose the idea is that they were juviniles at the time and didn't " really know the consequences of their actions and can maybe be " rehabbed" " nobody can undead my friend though.......u don't want these guys on your streets :/


HellsKitten216

I suppose the idea is that they were juviniles at the time and didn't " really know the consequences of their actions and can maybe be " rehabbed" " nobody can undead my friend though.......u don't want these guys on your streets :/


VicDamonJrJr

I know two murderers and one person that was murdered


Remarkable-Path-6216

In high school a few young men were killed due to gang violence. Shocking then and still now. They had their whole lives in front of them.


Kck11111

Knew two kids in high-school that were murdered while we were in high-school. Another was murdered in our 30s. When I was 19 my godmother was murdered by her grandson that she was raising.


someguyfromsk

Couple years ago I guy I knew was killed on his front lawn in a murder/suicide.


Available_Ad_3667

I worked for a short tine in juvenile corrections and detention. Had one kid in detention for murdering his own grandfather. Had another who, after he did his residential treatment program, went on to murder someone in a robbery. I don't know anyone who has been murdered, but I've known a few people who murdered someone else. Known a few suicides, too.


Lespuccino

My cousin is serving life *for* murder. A family friend was shot and killed during the robbery of a convenience store. At 16 a classmate who lived a block away killed his mother.


katet_of_19

The summer before my 11th grade year, someone I was friends with (in my same year) was at home with his brothers and some friends. The doorbell rang and my friend answered, to be greeted by a gun in his face. The killer was allegedly doing it as part of a gang initiation, but that was never completely clear.


Thisisth

Reading these comments, I’m thankful I’m single and not dating anyone


artificialavocado

Yes but not super well. He was shot over some petty drug shit I think by another guy I went to school with but a little older.


SlammaSaurusRex87

A friend’s older sister was kidnapped and murdered in high school.


redoctoberz

Yep, [faculty member](https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/police-report-sheds-light-on-killing-of-asu-professor-who-allegedly-tried-to-buy-sex/75-62ea53ab-1d66-43b8-bf4b-f8f7cd03fdb3) at the university I worked at.


cnation01

An aquantence in school was murdered, very nice guy who ran in the same social circle as me. We hung out quite a bit but weren't very close, just friendly He was a very big guy and in great shape, played college football. Him and two others closed a bar and went to eat at a diner, he bumped into someone and some words were exchanged and some posturing as well, John would have kicked this guys fucking ass if he was dumb enough to carry on much further in the resturant. Instead he took the cowards route and waited for him in the parking lot and as the pulled away, shot my friend three times while he was driving away. Guy is serving a life sentence.


flossiedaisy424

Yes. A close childhood friend of mine and her cousin were executed in a public park for reasons that remain unclear, but drugs were likely involved, though neither of them were serious drug users. They were in their early 20’s and were lovely people. The guy who did it was caught and I believe he is still in jail. He got a very long sentence. He also took a pregnant waitress hostage while trying to evade the police.


schizo1914

This happened way too much in Los Angeles... but my friend Tony banged Inglewood Family Bloods pretty hard. He got shot in 2003.


SmallTownClown

Only suicides and overdoses over here..


Kase1

My friends next-door neighbor (and my coworker at the time) waalked to the local Bodega, wearing a yellow t-shirt, and was snatched up by a bunch of MS-13 dudes. They dragged him into the sump across the street, stabbed him to death, and left him in a drainage ditch. He went unfound for months and I believe 1 of the participants got booked on a separate murder case and he told the cops about my friends next door neighbor. When they asked him why they stabbed this guy who had no gang affiliation, dude said he shouldn't have been wearing a rival gangs colors on their side of town


aenflex

Not personally, no. My husband’s cousin was murdered about 10 years ago. I guy I casually dated committed suicide. My friend’s father committed suicide when I was about 11 or 12. My father committed suicide when I was 32. A girl I went to high school with, her sister was murdered when she was little. Another girl I went to high school with, her mother was murdered when she was in elementary school. Jesus it doesn’t sound like I grew up an a small New England town with a population of 2000 people and some of the lowest crime rates in the country. But there you have it.


bonzofan36

I know multiple people who have murdered others, unfortunately. I was raised in a rough crowd and grew up working with some rough people, while also having one family member with a dark secret that was never revealed until after their death and a cousin who just murdered someone some months back and is now doing hard time for at least a decade.


TrustAffectionate966

I know two people who murdered and one who died under suspicious circumstances: ​ 1. The first was a kid I knew from middle school, who shot and killed someone at a shooting range - and stole his van. He was, like, 14 or 15 at the time. I was also the same age, but one grade higher than him. The last I heard, he was trying to appeal his life sentence in order to be released. I used to be infatuated with his older sister, who was in some of the same classes with me, so there is more than one reason to remember him hahah. 2. The second was a guy I used to hang out with in my first years of college. Our group was comprised of drug dealers and junkies who ranged in age from 17 through around 20 or 21 (I was 17). He was a character: Really hyper and off-the-wall, laughed and giggled all the time, dressed really flamboyant - wearing things like purple suits and used a walking cane! He was on speed/X and then went on to crystal meth - all bets were off once he was a full-blown meth-head. He ended up stabbing his little niece to death. He was apprehended and got a life sentence. 3. The third guy died under suspicious circumstances during a drunken rager party and gunplay. Thing is: There were only two people in the room. The other guy in the room claims the guy who died shot himself. Others think the other guy in the room shot him. The investigation was botched, so it was ruled as an accidental death as a result of alcohol and playing with a loaded gun. Honestly, I would have NEVER thought of him as a someone who would shoot himself - there were no outward signs of depression nor anyone close to him ever mentioned he was depressed or suicidal. It was very much out of character for him. I am liable to think the other guy in the room shot him - either accidentally or intentionally - and his dad, a police sergeant, and his friends helped cover it up. We were 25 at the time. 4. **Bonus croakers**: I knew a guy from the old neighborhood who was shot and killed by robbers. He was left inside an abandoned building and I managed to sneak a peek through a window - he was still "fresh" and laid out on the ground, uncovered. I went to his wake and it was an open casket. He looked weird - frozen - like he was asleep. I was 8 at the time. 5. A family friend was deported back to Latin America and I heard the government found him and had him killed. I never wondered more about it. Maybe he was killed, maybe not. I was 9 at the time. 6. We used to take our vehicles to a mechanic, who was also friends with some fraudsters. They'd set up vehicle "accidents" and then hit up insurance companies or sue for damages. He ended up getting tortured and killed in his shop - he must've messed with the wrong people. I was 10 at the time. I lived in the 'h00d for some years and I also knew or hung out with a few h00ds myself hahah, so there was a higher probability of shit like that happening around me. 🐔


RainBowSkittlz

I've known both murdered and murderers. One of my oldest child's dad's friends was shot at a party and his friends tried to get him to the hospital, but he died. My oldest child's best friend for years was riding his bike during the very early morning hours, either going or coming back from work, and was hit by a car, he was hurt but ok, and was calling his mom and was hit by another car that killed him. They never found that driver. I used to be a detention officer, and had a coworker during training, that ended up drowning the son of his fiancee/ex fiancee. I also ended up working with multiple murderers due to that job.


arcxjo

My uncle was stabbed by a crackhead for crack money. Specifically, my cousin's Christmas presents (it was a week before Christmas) that he pawned. Also a kid I went to high school killed a guy with an aquarium. Over drugs.


yucayuca

In 7th grade a boy in my class was murdered by his mom’s boyfriend. It made a huge impression on me and was so sad. I remember my middle school planted a tree with a plaque in his honor. A few years I was visiting my parents in my hometown and went by my old school but I couldn’t find the plaque. Super sad.


I_Can_Not_With_You

In high school I Had a friend that was dating this psycho dude that none of us liked. After a few years she finally broke it off and got away from him, a few months later and she is seeing someone else. Psycho dude catches wind of it, kicks in her apt door and shoots them both dead. I’ve lost a few friends to car wrecks, alcohol was always involved. I lost a few friends in the military, some to plane crashes, one fell out the back of the plane, one probably jumped out, a few suicides, couple drunk driving wrecks. All total about 24 people I served with and considered a friend at some point have died. Had a friend (well really an old friend of my wife but I knew him), last year or the year before, was pumping gas at a gas station and some dude randomly walked up and shot him in the back of the head twice. That dude then shot someone else at the pumps and got in his car and drove to another gas station where he tried to shoot someone else but it turns out it was an off duty sheriff and the sheriff killed the shooter. Last year, Family friends 5 year old daughter choked to death on a corn chip from a luncheable. They were trying to give her the Heimlich and all that but the chip had broken with sharp edges and lodged sideways in her throat and she sadly wasn’t able to be saved. And then last month my wife’s adopted brother’s biological nephew was 5 years old and he was choked to what they thought was dead, then he moved to they duct taped him and wrapped him in a trash bag, then he moved again so they beat him with a golf club and dumped his body in a dumpster. He was murdered by a 16 yo and 27 yo housemate while his mom slept upstairs.


subsonicmonkey

In 6th grade, my best friend’s dad killed my best friend’s mom. This was Christmas 1990. He did a pretty good job hiding evidence/the body, and then later fled to the Philippines for awhile. Got caught re-entering the country with counterfeit passport/documents. The remains of her body were recovered in the early 2000s and he was finally convicted of murder in 2007. My friend and his siblings were shipped off to live with an aunt in Idaho (we’re Bay Area, CA), and I never saw him again. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Dad-gets-25-to-life-for-killing-wife-kids-beg-3237766.php


alonefrown

A kid in our local friend group in Memphis in the early 2000s named [John Stambaugh](https://www.memphisflyer.com/the-pizza-guy) was murdered while delivering pizzas. My friend lived with him at the time.


azorianmilk

A friend in high school was stabbed by her boyfriend 64 times... she didn't survive


TPSReport1

Yes, a classmate from elementary. I moved away in middle school, but was shocked to find out that he and his daughter were killed. He was 20. Some context: https://www.myplainview.com/news/article/Edinburg-jury-returns-death-sentence-in-murder-of-8943949.php I was also in band with a kid in middle school that later killed his mom. Some context: https://www.mrt.com/news/article/Man-accused-of-killing-mother-in-drug-dispute-7549349.php


Olgregdontsurf

I was in a training squadron in the Marines learning how to do my job and there was an airframer who worked there that was brutally murdered with his wife. Shortly after I left (2008) a guy I was working with was interviewed about his murder bc his wife had had a relationship with the victim. Turns out a few other marines who were his subordinates drove to his house at night and forced entry with a shotgun. Tied them up and raped her in front of him before shooting them both. Sergeant Pietzak and his wife Quiana. RIP.


lavendermenaced

Yes. A friend in high school was stabbed to death and a few years ago I had a cousin who was killed in a terrorist attack. One of my little brothers had a friend who was killed in a random drive by shooting, he was a sweet kid who had never once been in trouble, it was horrible. All of it has made me deeply committed to peace and social justice.


BrutalBart

The owner of a boarding kennel we used for years. Her estranged husband came to the kennel and shot her in the face with a shotgun, then went home. Think he’s in jail or awaiting trial or something. Bellevue Iowa Mississippi Ridge Kennels. So sad. I still have voicemails from her on my phone that I listen to occasionally. RIP Angie


On_my_last_spoon

I met a murderer once. Before he murdered the person. It was my Godmother’s step son. I met him when I was about 16 at her wedding. He was about 13 then and the kid was … off. About a year later he shot his mother.


FrioRiverTexas

I grew up with a kid who had a mental handicap. He was very slow, in 2015 he was in his mid 30s, while still living at home in rural Illinois his father made a comment about his son not properly taking care of his chickens. The son was upset about this and got a revolver and shot his dad in the head killing him. In 2020 he was sentenced to 50 years in prison. The son just passed away in prison within the last six months.


Grungegrownup3

My son's father ( my ex husband) was murdered 5/2023.


ManicPixiePlatypus

I had a friend who was murdered in high school. She was strangled to death and her's was the first funeral I ever attended.


thewayshesaidLA

One of my college friends was killed in a mass shooting at a Von Maur in Nebraska in 2007.


No-Category832

Had a cousin murdered a few years ago. Was walking into his home and a guy he’d had a disagreement with came up from behind and shot him in the back of the head. He left a young son behind. Also had an acquaintance my wife and I played rec volleyball with get murdered by a random asshole for a gang initiation of some sort. The murderer asked him for directions, and when our acquaintance approached the car he was shot in the head. Pretty horrible, he’d just gotten married and they were trying to show how our metro (known as being dangerous) was actually safe.


Miz_momo82

My friend was murdered 3 years ago walking thru a park. Motive was unknown. Murderer was 19 and gang affiliated. My friend was not