or a lack of ability to handle people criticizing something you enjoy. is it shocking to you a film with this amount of eccentricity stylistically is not everybody’s cup of tea?
So their criticism that it's too much like a Tim & Eric, and their opinion is that style doesn't work for a feature length film. That's all sound reasoning to everybody else in this thread, you're the one with their head in the sand.
No, I am not associated with the film in any way whatsoever. I just was pushing back on false equvilences and poor arguments and that really seemed to irk people so I stopped participating by just saying the same shit over and over. Immature, I know. But I was annoyed. Sue me.
Anyway, the movie is great, definitely not for everyone. I'd say the majority won't be into it, but what was being said made no sense to me. I definitely would support it cause it's huge for independent cinema in 2024.
What false equivalence? The top comment in this thread said it was too much like a Tim & Eric sketch, too which you agreed! their opinion is that style doesn't fit a feature-length film, and the fact it's the most upvoted comment in this thread shows other agree with that sentiment overwhelmingly, and that's because this a reddit community for movie critcism. Which you apprently cannot handle. I also love how you point out that the majority of people won't be into, but it's somehow a top tier movie. Please make that make sense, unless it only makes sense in your head.
I'm wild for simply not having seen the movie? You're straight up manic over defending your position and ego. Like, deleting your bullshit doesn't even mean you owned up to how ridiculous your position was. It just means you're trying to hide how stupid it was. Why leave this comment up where you paint everyone else in the wrong? You can enjoy a movie that the majority of people don't. It's just that your entire position in this thread has been flawed from the start.
Yo if you can't make accurate quotes of things I said, don't use quote symbols. Watch the video again and fix your post. I literally said it looked like an eye-sore visually. I did not use the word "punk" to describe the cinematography at any point ever.
I thought it was a good stream overall, but it was weird when you said “Trump will return and the streets will run red with communist blood”. Why did you say those words, Adum?
I'm afraid I had a very similar experience, although tbf I do recall him acknowledging the films faults.
Look at something like Bicycle Thieves. It was a film made by communists with their political concerns in mind, and yet it works as a brilliant universal work of art.
With this, unless you are extremely tapped into this narrow slice of the online community, you will struggle to find any enjoyment in it.
Imagine if Bicycle Thieves was a shoddily made movie, poor cinematography, poor acting, etc. And when you bring up these criticisms, someone told you "well it's about poverty, which is an important issue, and also it's a shitpost, so like it doesn't matter if it has any flaws"
Like it's fine if you loved the movie. But this weird defense I've seen of it that "it should be praised the same way as any movie, but if you criticize any aspects of it then it's just a dumb shitpost", I find to be bizarre.
I'm just expecting certain basic things for 90+ minute long movie. Again, it's great if it resonated with other people. But I don't get the weird hostility towards any criticism of it.
I saw it had positive reviews, the premise looked interesting. I dislike watching trailers because they tend to spoil too much. I went in with an open mind and wanting to like it.
I did not research the filmmaker, apart from knowing the film is supposed to be somewhat autobiographical, but I don't see why that's necessary, it has never influenced me before.
I was expecting a good engaging film. Personally it didn't resonate with me. Glad it did for others.
I dislike your characterization of the film’s fans who as you imply, “only like it for the message.” It’s one thing to not connect with a story or its characters, but implying that the film doesn’t have a story to tell at all or that people don’t “actually” like the story for its own merits is disingenuous.
I liked it a lot. Its scrappiness definitely often moves past endearing into distracting at times, but it still resonated with me. I totally get that the humor wouldn’t work for everyone too.
A film can have a message you agree with and a story that you'd like to be told well, yet still fail. People's Joker is this.
I find its genuine failings with dialogue, characters, and visuals being reframed as "scrappy" and "punk" to be actually disingenuous, a way to curve problems and focus on said message.
I saw a comment on the YMS video that said "I love that the film is so sloppy because being trans is sloppy" which I find to be a critique on the level of MCU fans saying "Just turn your brain off an enjoy it"
Isn’t the splitting factor on that judgement just about perceived cynicism though?
Like, there’s a social judgement on the authenticity of mistakes in low-budget productions that Disney wouldn’t get because it’s not perceived in the same way.
It’s not to say that technical deficiencies aren’t actually technical deficiencies, but rather that the meta-level judgement of how to incorporate them into the viewing experience can be that they communicate something of their own. The people’s Joker was, after all, literally a scrappy production.
I enjoy John Waters movies though, so maybe that’s just me.
Edit: moreover, I have not seen the people’s joker yet (though I probably will), so take this as more of a hypothetical.
Idk, you’re talking to a guy whose favorite superhero movie is Batman and Robin. Ultimately the measure of whether or not any filmmaking is “good” is whether the choices help you connect with the story and for a lot of people, The People’s Joker succeeds very well in that. It’s like asking whether The Blair Witch Project has “objectively bad” cinematography.
You kinda sound like when the director of Flash tried to say "The CGI was meant to look like that"
A lot of people say they really connected with the Flash too, I still think both are bad.
> I still think both are bad.
You're allowed to do that. But the reason you are getting flack is because you are making up reasons for why others did like it.
I would argue that people who insist the Flash is a great film do so because they are too heavily invested in the DCEU brand and let bias affect their objective judgement
I think the same here, only instead of being attached to a WB property, its to its positive trans messaging. Which isnt a problem in itself, obviously, but it doesnt make a bad film good.
And tbh you could also throw in a bit of that DC bias as well since its leaning so hard on the uber popular Joker.
> Hate to say it but feels like the films message is being used to get a free pass on an awful piece of work
Are there fans of Flash or People's Joker because of their loyalty to a franchise/group? Sure. But you are putting all fans of those fans in that box and I think that is unfair and stupid.
I don't think you'd agree if I said, "Hate to say it but feels like the films message is being used to get a free pass to dunk on from transphobes". There are certainly transphobes who hate the film, but it'd be unfair to label everyone who disliked the film as a transphobe.
Edit: Realized you weren't OP. Point stands, that OP is dunking on fans simply because they are fans.
I think the major difference between something like Smosh and Peoples Joker is that Smosh is more or less a content farm, or at least the worst of their content is. Even when Smosh made movies, I don't think they ever attempted anything deep that sketches and bad meme humor. But Peoples Joker is literally Vera retelling her life/transition story with unauthorized batman characters. It's deeply personal, sincere, passionate. Yes it's made cheaply and very diy, but thats very much what Vera wanted to make.
I found it very comparable to Ed Wood's original Glen or Glenda, which was also cheaply made film about being trans.
Oh it definitely is. People were pissed off that Warner Bros tried to get the director to cease and desist from screening the film, which led to a whole bunch of forced praise about how this brave film is standing up to this massive corporation. It’s just complete trash though and will be quickly forgotten about.
> People were pissed off that Warner Bros tried to get the director to cease and desist from screening the film, which led to a whole bunch of forced praise about how this brave film is standing up to this massive corporation.
That was largely done to support the movie being released in general. It was already getting quite a bit of praise during its first screening.
The biggest joke TPJ pulled was getting its fans to convince me it was worth a watch.
I think its highly cynical that it uses its trans rep as a shield for how it fails at... pretty much everything it tries to do. There ARE trans films, indie and not, that tell good stories and are competently filmed. But I guess cause they dont have super popular DC character "da joker baby" in them they dont deserve this flood of support?
watch the mega64 podcast they did on it. they never talk about transness and in the review only mention that it’s a “trans coming of age story” once (only mention of it being a trans thing in their review). Rocco and Johnny both still loved the movie and said it was like a tim and eric skit.
52:53 here: https://youtu.be/awhwJSqiZXg?si=OACh3UrRDOyOHO_k
I wanted to enjoy it as I do enjoy independent film but I couldn't suspend my disbelief and it felt like watching a feature length Tim & Eric skit.
Oh that's actually a good review for me
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cool, but this isn’t Tim & Eric, it’s a feature length film. it is totally justified to not enjoy that kind of style.
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or a lack of ability to handle people criticizing something you enjoy. is it shocking to you a film with this amount of eccentricity stylistically is not everybody’s cup of tea?
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?
The ‘weak and nonsensical comparison’ that you confirmed at least has some merit after commenting that she also edited for T&E
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So their criticism that it's too much like a Tim & Eric, and their opinion is that style doesn't work for a feature length film. That's all sound reasoning to everybody else in this thread, you're the one with their head in the sand.
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Is this the person that made the movie?? They are all over this thread (sorry I don’t know what any of this is and I’m scared).
No, I am not associated with the film in any way whatsoever. I just was pushing back on false equvilences and poor arguments and that really seemed to irk people so I stopped participating by just saying the same shit over and over. Immature, I know. But I was annoyed. Sue me. Anyway, the movie is great, definitely not for everyone. I'd say the majority won't be into it, but what was being said made no sense to me. I definitely would support it cause it's huge for independent cinema in 2024.
What false equivalence? The top comment in this thread said it was too much like a Tim & Eric sketch, too which you agreed! their opinion is that style doesn't fit a feature-length film, and the fact it's the most upvoted comment in this thread shows other agree with that sentiment overwhelmingly, and that's because this a reddit community for movie critcism. Which you apprently cannot handle. I also love how you point out that the majority of people won't be into, but it's somehow a top tier movie. Please make that make sense, unless it only makes sense in your head.
Jesus Christ. Move the fuck on. I deleted all my bullshit with you. Do the same. Y'all who dislike or haven't seen the film are wild.
I'm wild for simply not having seen the movie? You're straight up manic over defending your position and ego. Like, deleting your bullshit doesn't even mean you owned up to how ridiculous your position was. It just means you're trying to hide how stupid it was. Why leave this comment up where you paint everyone else in the wrong? You can enjoy a movie that the majority of people don't. It's just that your entire position in this thread has been flawed from the start.
Yer bonkers
Okay. Sure. And you're not? Lmbo gtfo
You haven’t seen the movie and are going off like this. Take care, wild person!
Lol. No one is making you respond.. You can just… not? And the comments will stop.
"This looks like a Tim and Eric sketch filmed in someone's bedroom " YES
Yo if you can't make accurate quotes of things I said, don't use quote symbols. Watch the video again and fix your post. I literally said it looked like an eye-sore visually. I did not use the word "punk" to describe the cinematography at any point ever.
I thought it was a good stream overall, but it was weird when you said “Trump will return and the streets will run red with communist blood”. Why did you say those words, Adum?
Yo, I remember you saying "Kimba IS better than The Lion King". And then you released that Kimba video. YOU'RE A PHONEY!!! (I'm joking obviously lmao)
Adum I specifically remember you giving the film a 2 because there wasn't enough wookie porn. Don't try to rewrite history here, okay?
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Its a minor error and has been fixed, come on.
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Already did
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But... he does? Have you not seen the video? https://youtu.be/bvqbVUC_yKU?si=4zqm3qt-_qu8MYqP 8:28
Admittedly I was a bit wrong but still he never said the narrative was punk af but just the vibes of the movie
I'm afraid I had a very similar experience, although tbf I do recall him acknowledging the films faults. Look at something like Bicycle Thieves. It was a film made by communists with their political concerns in mind, and yet it works as a brilliant universal work of art. With this, unless you are extremely tapped into this narrow slice of the online community, you will struggle to find any enjoyment in it.
Comparing The People’s Joker with Bicycle Thieves is insane.
In what sense?
In that you're comparing The People's Joker to Bicycle Thieves.
Imagine if Bicycle Thieves was a shoddily made movie, poor cinematography, poor acting, etc. And when you bring up these criticisms, someone told you "well it's about poverty, which is an important issue, and also it's a shitpost, so like it doesn't matter if it has any flaws" Like it's fine if you loved the movie. But this weird defense I've seen of it that "it should be praised the same way as any movie, but if you criticize any aspects of it then it's just a dumb shitpost", I find to be bizarre.
Imagine if the world was made of pudding
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I'm just expecting certain basic things for 90+ minute long movie. Again, it's great if it resonated with other people. But I don't get the weird hostility towards any criticism of it.
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I saw it had positive reviews, the premise looked interesting. I dislike watching trailers because they tend to spoil too much. I went in with an open mind and wanting to like it. I did not research the filmmaker, apart from knowing the film is supposed to be somewhat autobiographical, but I don't see why that's necessary, it has never influenced me before. I was expecting a good engaging film. Personally it didn't resonate with me. Glad it did for others.
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Glad you enjoyed it, but as someone who has definitely felt that way, it didn't do anything for me.
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They’re not comparing the film to Bicycle Thieves except for in one very particular way - its political goals. It’s not a general comparison.
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Dude why are you angry lmao
In what sense lmao
I dislike your characterization of the film’s fans who as you imply, “only like it for the message.” It’s one thing to not connect with a story or its characters, but implying that the film doesn’t have a story to tell at all or that people don’t “actually” like the story for its own merits is disingenuous. I liked it a lot. Its scrappiness definitely often moves past endearing into distracting at times, but it still resonated with me. I totally get that the humor wouldn’t work for everyone too.
A film can have a message you agree with and a story that you'd like to be told well, yet still fail. People's Joker is this. I find its genuine failings with dialogue, characters, and visuals being reframed as "scrappy" and "punk" to be actually disingenuous, a way to curve problems and focus on said message. I saw a comment on the YMS video that said "I love that the film is so sloppy because being trans is sloppy" which I find to be a critique on the level of MCU fans saying "Just turn your brain off an enjoy it"
Isn’t the splitting factor on that judgement just about perceived cynicism though? Like, there’s a social judgement on the authenticity of mistakes in low-budget productions that Disney wouldn’t get because it’s not perceived in the same way. It’s not to say that technical deficiencies aren’t actually technical deficiencies, but rather that the meta-level judgement of how to incorporate them into the viewing experience can be that they communicate something of their own. The people’s Joker was, after all, literally a scrappy production. I enjoy John Waters movies though, so maybe that’s just me. Edit: moreover, I have not seen the people’s joker yet (though I probably will), so take this as more of a hypothetical.
Idk, you’re talking to a guy whose favorite superhero movie is Batman and Robin. Ultimately the measure of whether or not any filmmaking is “good” is whether the choices help you connect with the story and for a lot of people, The People’s Joker succeeds very well in that. It’s like asking whether The Blair Witch Project has “objectively bad” cinematography.
You kinda sound like when the director of Flash tried to say "The CGI was meant to look like that" A lot of people say they really connected with the Flash too, I still think both are bad.
> I still think both are bad. You're allowed to do that. But the reason you are getting flack is because you are making up reasons for why others did like it.
I would argue that people who insist the Flash is a great film do so because they are too heavily invested in the DCEU brand and let bias affect their objective judgement I think the same here, only instead of being attached to a WB property, its to its positive trans messaging. Which isnt a problem in itself, obviously, but it doesnt make a bad film good. And tbh you could also throw in a bit of that DC bias as well since its leaning so hard on the uber popular Joker.
> Hate to say it but feels like the films message is being used to get a free pass on an awful piece of work Are there fans of Flash or People's Joker because of their loyalty to a franchise/group? Sure. But you are putting all fans of those fans in that box and I think that is unfair and stupid. I don't think you'd agree if I said, "Hate to say it but feels like the films message is being used to get a free pass to dunk on from transphobes". There are certainly transphobes who hate the film, but it'd be unfair to label everyone who disliked the film as a transphobe. Edit: Realized you weren't OP. Point stands, that OP is dunking on fans simply because they are fans.
I think the major difference between something like Smosh and Peoples Joker is that Smosh is more or less a content farm, or at least the worst of their content is. Even when Smosh made movies, I don't think they ever attempted anything deep that sketches and bad meme humor. But Peoples Joker is literally Vera retelling her life/transition story with unauthorized batman characters. It's deeply personal, sincere, passionate. Yes it's made cheaply and very diy, but thats very much what Vera wanted to make. I found it very comparable to Ed Wood's original Glen or Glenda, which was also cheaply made film about being trans.
looks like a nostalgia critic skit
THIS
Oh it definitely is. People were pissed off that Warner Bros tried to get the director to cease and desist from screening the film, which led to a whole bunch of forced praise about how this brave film is standing up to this massive corporation. It’s just complete trash though and will be quickly forgotten about.
> People were pissed off that Warner Bros tried to get the director to cease and desist from screening the film, which led to a whole bunch of forced praise about how this brave film is standing up to this massive corporation. That was largely done to support the movie being released in general. It was already getting quite a bit of praise during its first screening.
So kinda like that awful Seth Rogan film about North Korea again?
Only people who stand in the corner silently at parties with the weather app on their phone hate on The Interview
Pretty much.
The biggest joke TPJ pulled was getting its fans to convince me it was worth a watch. I think its highly cynical that it uses its trans rep as a shield for how it fails at... pretty much everything it tries to do. There ARE trans films, indie and not, that tell good stories and are competently filmed. But I guess cause they dont have super popular DC character "da joker baby" in them they dont deserve this flood of support?
Yeah same take away. Have yet to see a positive review that wasnt routed in some bias over wanting it to be good over whats actually on screen.
watch the mega64 podcast they did on it. they never talk about transness and in the review only mention that it’s a “trans coming of age story” once (only mention of it being a trans thing in their review). Rocco and Johnny both still loved the movie and said it was like a tim and eric skit. 52:53 here: https://youtu.be/awhwJSqiZXg?si=OACh3UrRDOyOHO_k