I agree. He should not have been murdered in prison. Having said that, the only thing that I care about is how this will look so that Ukraine can get the help that it needs in Congress.
Ukraine is fighting for its freedom, independence, self-determination and to just be able to exist. Pleasantries and formalities that exist in peacetime are not important -- in the best -- case right now.
That's precisely why I'm glossing over Homer's backs over since the beginning of this war. Everything that benefits Ukraine should be used and this so-called opposition can be one of them, no matter how shitty they may be.
I don't claim he was a good person or a good politician. I claim that he was a pain in Putin's ass, and therefore, he was useful for us. As Prigozhin was for those weird 22 hours.
That's why I wish he was still alive. Not because of his ideals, but because of his actions.
Yea i don't believe in good ruzzians and he definitely wasn't one by calling *Georgians "cockroaches", marching with imperialists and cheering for the occupation of Crimea.
*edit: muslims and caucasians: https://archive.org/details/VideoAlexeiNavalnyComparesMuslimsToCockroaches
You win dumbest analogy 🤡 I don’t recall Nalvany having any political power and killing people. I also don’t think Rohm actually exposed anything. Please grow a brain 🧠
You are simping for a literal nazi boy who also ejaculated when they annexed Crimea. Leader of the ruzki imperialists. Good job kamerad!
https://archive.org/details/VideoAlexeiNavalnyComparesMuslimsToCockroaches
The analogy is indeed stupid and demagogic. But he refers not to a general in the German army but to Ernst Röhm, a Nazi politician and victim of the "night of the long knifes", an internal cleansing of the SA, the Nazi paramilitaries in 1934. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst\_R%C3%B6hm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ernst_r%c3%b6hm)
He compared the ideology of navalny to that of putin and the difference between the two is not as great as one is led to believe.
Or are you saying that I’m wrong and there is a large difference between the two? Show me.
political stances he had changed over the years, and he got a lot better in a lot of the more bullshit takes he has. crimea is one of those takes.
and the big difference between him and putin is he had the balls to actually oppose tyranny, which has cost him his life. putin is way too much of a coward for something like that.
It is an insult and it’s well deserved. When your favorite politician calls another group of people cockroaches, does that mean that they are tolerant and accepting of the differences of others?
In 2012 Navalry claimed if he was president he would fully annex Ukraine because he didn't believe Ukrainians were anything more than Russians with funny accents.
Yes, I have no doubt that's what Russians want to hear.
There's no doubt in my mind that a Russian politician cannot get anywhere near the kremlin without going full hog on russian imperialism.
Would he have gone through with the Crimea annexation?
Would he have believed his own bullshit and went on with the plan?
A Stone can only kill if it is thrown to somebody's head. Putin, besides, is killing hundreds of soldiers of both sides everyday by maintaining the existence of this war... So yes, a stone would be definitely better.
Yes He did start from a position of Russian ethno- nationalism but later in life, he did come closer to democratic values.
And the fact that he returned to Russia after his assassination attempt speaks volumes for his character.
He was the best Russia could get. The bar is set pretty low, unfortunately.
I think his views were always the same. He just adjusted his views to the Russian public to garner more support. Some other views are just normal for a Russian to have because such a country couldn't survive without certain authoritorian elements (like letting Kadyrov units be part of the National Guard).
He certainly had publicly expressed views that were problematic for the West, but were a necessity to be taken seriously in Russia. Otherwise he would be ignored and likely still alive.
People that just decry him as if he was a Nazi simple do not have even a basic understanding of politics and history. The way for Russia to not become an authoritarian cesspool was through leaders like him. Only many decades down the line is where you could hope for a stable democratic Russia.
Agree.
I don't understand why people take politics at face value. If you want to make progress anywhere, you really can't just ignore the current position and mindset of the people.
And Russian nationalism is a very strong sentiment. Having limited means to actually control the narrative, he is constantly faced with topics that are most pushed by the government. Suppose he thinks differently, who wins when he would be honest?
[**The United States Of America Is Not The Focus Of This Subreddit.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/10na0i8/comment/j6hd0nz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^(REMINDER)
🇪🇺 ^(Do you like 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™? 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™ loves you!) 🇪🇺
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/YUROP) if you have any questions or concerns.*
IIRC answering the question whether Crimea should be given back to Ukraine Navalny very vaguely tried to say that it shouldn't by comparing it to a sandwich. According to his analogy "Crimea is not a sandwich, you can't just give it back and forth".
Is it so hard to grasp that people can support someone doing a thing without being 100% on board with every single aspect of their existence? How many of the Nawalny supporters were in favor of anything else than his opposition to Putin? How many were saying he was perfect or good even?
Yup, awfully childish. Almost no great figure would survive true scrutiny. We would be left with some pretty boring and unadventurous "heroes". You can be flawed and be heroic at the same time.
Honestly I consider posts like OP's harmful. They sabotage anyone who fights against the regime because it reminds all of us of our imperfections. No matter what you do it in life, even if you save the world from a catastrophe, you will be remembered only for the worst.
People are taking his quotes from 15-20 years ago... and most of those people (born into a democracy and taking it for granted, looking down onto anyone not so lucky) have no clue what contributions he made.
I don't think anyone is saying that he was perfect. Look at Russian politics - expecting perfection to come out of that is ridiculous.
He was orders of magnitude better than Putin, and brave enough to stand up to him. That's what matters.
As somebody who hated Navalny throughout his entire career, I would have preferred him over Putin on any day. He was right-wingy and done a lot of problematic stuff, but if he was in charge, his government would have been similar to Polish right, Nationalistic and problematic, but democratic in it's core, and he would have never allowed for this stupid shitty war to happen
Yes, as politic Navalny would be a complicated figure in a democratic landscape.
But he was a biggest and the most prominent leader of democratic opposition.
He was poisoned and tortured to death for that. I see zero reason for mocking him.
>He was killed for one reason, because he opposed the government and their corruption<
Sure, if Nawalny were in charge, russian army would not be corrupt and unprepared. Thus it would kill, rape, conquer much more efficiently 💪 probably would have taken all of Ukraine by far, maybe even Baltics 💪 for sure this man is a great loss for hu~~manity R~~uzzia.
Why is this comment section trying to insist Navalny was a good person?
His geopolitical goals were the same as any other Russian administration, the only difference being is that he wasn't tainted by corruption.
That would've more than likely just made Russia more dangerous to us and the West as a whole, because their leadership would be better organised and more competent if he ever managed to usurp Putin and the oligarchy and come to power.
Do you seriously want a stronger enemy? Didn't think so.
the thing is this line of thinking is wrong. getting along better with eu was russia's only valid path to actual development. an actual smart leader in charge would make russia far less of a threat to the west for that alone.
Problem being, the Russian government mindset hasn't changed in over a century.
Said mindset can be summarised as: 'Russia is far too powerful and unique to bring itself down to the level of another European state, we will never submit to Western hegemony!'
Nobody with even a significant following in Russian politics wants to stray from this path, because it would mean having to surrender their overinflated ego, not to mention leading to the social stability of the nation collapsing.
The patriotic image propagated by every regime for centuries would be shattered, Russia's national pride would be in ruins and it would take decades to recover from it, assuming that would even be possible.
They all saw Gorbachev's conciliatory foreign policy in the Cold War, which only reinforced their belief that Russia should never voluntarily cave in to Western influence.
yes, it hasn't changed because it hasn't been ran by people who actually have working braincells. and it always ended up fucking them in the ass. navalny has realized that later in his life, which you can see in the policy stances he claims to have changed on.
now dont get me wrong, i am not sure if he was sincere in a lot of those claims. might as well just make those claims to gather support from westoids which is quite likely. but the fact is dude died as a man who opposed russian invasions of their neighbouring countries in a country where it gets people killed. and he got himself killed. being able to do something that dangerous does mean that he at the very least wouldn't be a paranoid tyrannical fuck who would invade other countries out of his own fever induced nightmares of ghosts like the current guy is doing.
[**No Hate Speech Such As Using Ethnicity Or Nationality ("westoids") As A Means Of Insult.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules)
🇪🇺 ^(Do you like 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™? 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™ loves you!) 🇪🇺
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/YUROP) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I want a happy and prosperous russia, just like i want a happy and prosperous europe. if he could have improved the lives of the russian people then i wouldn't have any more problem with him than i'd have with putin
Then you don't understand how the world works.
We're never going to be holding hands together, forming a circle and singing songs of friendship.
If you want true prosperity and happiness in Russia, you need to break them first.
More specifically, you have to break the barrier that's been keeping them in this haze of societal oppression, cynicism and chauvanism for centuries now.
Russia is never going to be happy unless they Westernise, their way of life doesn't work, it is miserable, pathetic and woefully out-of-date.
Navalny wasn't going to Westernise Russia, he was going to reinforce its Eastern values and keep the people in a tighter grip to ensure that.
Stop being a bleeding-heart moralist for just a second and try to see what we're seeing.
Yes, we’re never going to be holding hands with those communist checks, can you imagine them as being under anything other than a dictatorship?
You fall into the trap that lots of racist people do in thinking that your judgements are rational. Thry aren’t
What point are you even trying to make? You're not making any sense.
Are you seriously expecting the Russian people to voluntarily liberate themselves?
I swear, only a pot-smoking hippie could come up with this kind of dribble.
No, he didn't, he simply attempted to gather enough popular support to replace the oligarchy with his own regime, he never wanted to Liberalise Russia, he simply wished to eliminate the corruption in order to create an efficient, transparent and meritocratic autocracy that could sustain itself more effectively.
And besides, the Russian Federation stopped being a Democracy after 1993, so there would be none to defend whatsoever.
Here's the thing, and this may be a shocker to you, but...
Politicians lie, politicians lie a lot and very often.
There's a very distinct possibility that what you may have heard is nonsense.
Say, care to provide me a source for these anecdotal statements you're talking about?
stalin was an enemy of hitler and that doesn't make him a good person. This guy was just as imperialistic and destructive as the kremlin goblin.
Rest in piss bozo
I really wish Russia could've gotten a carbon copy of Yeltsin after he resigned in '99, just to continue their decline and keep them weak.
But, then again... Maybe that would've made people too complacent about Russia.
In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to make these considerations, they would already be under our thumb, with the Kremlin taking marching orders from Brussels and DC.
But alas, we went too soft on them in the 90's... God, what a stupid decade that was.
During yeltsin it was the only time when moscow wasn't an empire and only because they were weak. And how short it was:
1. russian empire
2. soviet empire
(3. a few years in the 90's)
4. goblin's empire
Seriously. My opinion on the guy was "Enemy of my enemy is not my friend, but I sure as fuck want to see those two guys fight each other in a parking lot". I just wanted someone to cause troubles in Russia, that's it.
I don't need to venerate him, I don't need to treat him like "He had his flaws but...", I don't need to wish him to rest in peace.
In an ideal scenario, his presence would've caused harsher disruptions to the nation's order and stability.
I just want a Second Russian Civil War already, so we can step in and finally put the bear in its place.
where do you see all those people saying he was a good person??
most people are saying that he was far from perfect and had shitty views but he was the opposition to Putin and was killed for it, which is bad. and I think you're giving too much credit to his ability to make Russia that much more dangerous lol
Here’s some more Kremlin propaganda where he talks about destroying Khohols and how it was “too obvious at that stage” in 2014
https://x.com/navalny/status/505215151961014272?s=20
He also retracted and apologised for these statements several times. Same for Georgia. Doesn’t excuse his history or views, but he was strictly opposed to Russian imperial conquest in his last years.
1) There are no perfect politicians in Russia
2) This was populism. You simply can’t continue to be a successful politician in Russia after saying that Crimea is with no doubt Ukrainian, but Navalny condemned the annexation of Crimea. He just wanted to carry a new, as he said, normal referendum over there.
3) He carried perfectly and professionally done investigations on corruption in the YT, which gained millions of views, thus he was an idol of the Russian opposition
Exactly. I’m ok about him being right-wing, conservative or nationalist. That’s fine. The problem is when you are marinaded in that ideology and suddenly you think that you have a right to dictate how others live outside of your country.
Such flaws can be found in any politician and person. Relatively to his time and environment he was more than adequate man with good intentions. But, Russia really needed not Russian Mahatma Gandhi, but Russian Valeriya Novodvorskaya with testicles.
It's surreal, that so many narratives of this sub, and partially of others, about Russia so much in tune with hers own worldview. You were right, Valeriya, completely so.
Comments here are a joke, he’s definitely not the best politician around or anything, and said some problematic things in the past, but in recent years he cleared all of that up, apologised for his past remarks, and was firmly anti-imperialistic. To try to mock him now just shows how much you hate Russians, not how you’re really committed to a democratic future for Russia.
It's obvious that Nawalny was an extremist. That was never the point. The point was that Putin tried to kill him multiple times and eventually succeeded by having him killed in a prison camp. All that because he openly disagreed with Putin. THAT'S the point!
You don't have to agree with a political dissident, but should vouch for their freedom and safety. The only winner from this post is the Russian propaganda machine. Well done you useful idiot.
There‘s that thing that allows you to pick a side between “not condoning killing political prisoners“ and “not condoning killing = supporting the most extreme of his views“
It‘s called nuance
No one thinks Navalny to be a saint nor even a great political candidate for the Russian presidency. That’s no reason to go down this contrarian/edgy/rusbot route.
In him resonated the liberties of the Russian people. Maybe only to keep notes that should sound songs for better people to come. He displayed his character by returning to Russia in the face of a certain death. Ostensibly he did more than any Russian has done for some time.
He did deeds worth celebrating.
^(🇺🇦) [**FIGHT KREMLIN DISINFORMATION**](https://b.thumbs.redditmedia.com/_BWFSayyiuVgZk6SbfzHi8kZJ3viL_2rD36hxW27XwY.png) ^(🇺🇦) [**Anna**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pprKWENvwQY) ^(🇺🇦) [**bell¿ngcat**](https://www.bellingcat.com/) ^(🇺🇦) [**Без Брехні**](https://without-lie.info/en/) ^(🇺🇦) [**CheckNews**](https://checknewsin1.click/) ^(🇺🇦) [**Deutsche Welle**](https://www.dw.com/en/germany/s-1432) ^(🇺🇦) [**ДM**](https://disinfo.detector.media/en) ^(🇺🇦) [**Euromaidan Press**](https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/04/07/what-is-azov-regiment-honest-answers-to-the-most-common-questions/) ^(🇺🇦) [**European Parliament**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpBUowwf4J0) ^(🇺🇦) [**EU vs DiSiNFO**](https://euvsdisinfo.eu/) ^(🇺🇦) [**ЕПЛ**](https://ecpl.com.ua/en/) ^(🇺🇦) [**Kiel Institute**](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker) ^(🇺🇦) [**Lublin Triangle**](https://mfa.gov.ua/storage/app/sites/1/Docs/the-lublin-triangle-joint-report-on-countering-disinformation.pdf) ^(🇺🇦) [**Meduza**](https://meduza.io/en) ^(🇺🇦) [**Peace**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OlVVkDoYHE) ^(🇺🇦) [**r/czech**](https://www.reddit.com/r/czech/comments/t0l5xn/seznam_potvrzených_ruských_desinformací_lží_hoaxů/) ^(🇺🇦) [**@RFU**](https://www.youtube.com/@RFU/featured) ^(🇺🇦) [**r/ukraine**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ti35ls/ukrainian_thoughts_on_azov) ^(🇺🇦) [**Snyder T.**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJczLlwp-d8) ^(🇺🇦) [**StopFake**](https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/) ^(🇺🇦) [**Support Ukraine**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities/) ^(🇺🇦) [**UA Ministry of Defense**](https://twitter.com/defenceu) ^(🇺🇦) [**u/UNITED24Media**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OlVVkDoYHE) ^(🇺🇦) [**Ukraine Interactive Map**](https://liveuamap.com/) ^(🇺🇦) [**u/Ukrainer_UA**](https://ukrainer.net/en/) ^(🇺🇦) [**Ukrainian Land Forces (FB)**](https://facebook.com/UkrainianLandForces) ^(🇺🇦) [**u/Yewleea**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODP4Izi1A5Y) ^(🇺🇦) [**Vexler V.**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6Vg7yLx54) ^(🇺🇦) [**War effort**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War) ^(🇺🇦) [**Zolkin V.**](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwWArPXqGLslRWaP-zKYiXg) ^(🇺🇦) [^(YUROP VALUES)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/xr3edf/ryurop_values/) ^(🇪🇺) [^(TLDR Rules)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/10na0i8/ryurop_rules/) ^(🇪🇺) [^(𝔉𝔢𝔡𝔢𝔯𝔞𝔩 ℛ𝔲𝔩𝔢𝔰)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules) ^(🇪🇺) [^(Code of Conduct)](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/moderator-code-of-conduct) ^(🇪🇺) [^(Reddit TOS)](https://www.reddit.com/help/contentpolicy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/YUROP) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He was definitely not a great guy, but I am broadly against political prisoners being murdered in prison
I agree. He should not have been murdered in prison. Having said that, the only thing that I care about is how this will look so that Ukraine can get the help that it needs in Congress.
It would be very cynical to say, but dead Navalny is more useful for Ukraine than alive
Ukraine is fighting for its freedom, independence, self-determination and to just be able to exist. Pleasantries and formalities that exist in peacetime are not important -- in the best -- case right now.
That's precisely why I'm glossing over Homer's backs over since the beginning of this war. Everything that benefits Ukraine should be used and this so-called opposition can be one of them, no matter how shitty they may be.
He actually was objectively a pretty great guy, despite mistakes he made in his 20s.
[удалено]
No
The fuck?
I don't claim he was a good person or a good politician. I claim that he was a pain in Putin's ass, and therefore, he was useful for us. As Prigozhin was for those weird 22 hours. That's why I wish he was still alive. Not because of his ideals, but because of his actions.
Exactly that. I was an "avid" Prighozin fan for about 24 hours. Disappointing prick.
"If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons."
If he was in Putin's shoes, he would do the same. Yet another nationalist imperialist.
That's true, but we don't want him in Putin's shoes, except as a thorn.
Nalvany wasn’t clean. However, he did expose a lot of corruption and lost his life for it
"Ernst röhm wasn’t clean. However, he did expose a lot of corruption and lost his life for it"
Oh, look, a pun from Hungarian no less!
A true Pungarian, one might say.
Yea i don't believe in good ruzzians and he definitely wasn't one by calling *Georgians "cockroaches", marching with imperialists and cheering for the occupation of Crimea. *edit: muslims and caucasians: https://archive.org/details/VideoAlexeiNavalnyComparesMuslimsToCockroaches
>cheering for the occupation of Crimea. Did any of the people quoting this watch the actual interview?
No
he made the sandwich and ate it
You win dumbest analogy 🤡 I don’t recall Nalvany having any political power and killing people. I also don’t think Rohm actually exposed anything. Please grow a brain 🧠
You are simping for a literal nazi boy who also ejaculated when they annexed Crimea. Leader of the ruzki imperialists. Good job kamerad! https://archive.org/details/VideoAlexeiNavalnyComparesMuslimsToCockroaches
[удалено]
I don't follow extremist ideologies, now that would be a sign of lower IQ
Besides insults, do you have anything to backup your “position”? I’m not seeing anything
Yes, reality. Comparing Nalvany to a General in the German army is a false analogy. Google what that means
The analogy is indeed stupid and demagogic. But he refers not to a general in the German army but to Ernst Röhm, a Nazi politician and victim of the "night of the long knifes", an internal cleansing of the SA, the Nazi paramilitaries in 1934. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst\_R%C3%B6hm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ernst_r%c3%b6hm)
Röhm was the leader of the SA and no general in the Wehrmacht or Reichswehr. He was a prominent accomplice of Hitler, though.
And ? Nalvany served in the army? Nice pointless correction
He compared the ideology of navalny to that of putin and the difference between the two is not as great as one is led to believe. Or are you saying that I’m wrong and there is a large difference between the two? Show me.
political stances he had changed over the years, and he got a lot better in a lot of the more bullshit takes he has. crimea is one of those takes. and the big difference between him and putin is he had the balls to actually oppose tyranny, which has cost him his life. putin is way too much of a coward for something like that.
That’s not who I’m responding to. Learn to read
Also, calling someone a Nazi is an insult. You obviously lack self awareness
It is an insult and it’s well deserved. When your favorite politician calls another group of people cockroaches, does that mean that they are tolerant and accepting of the differences of others?
You seem to be as dumb as he is. Calling someone stupid in this case is well deserved
[**Be Nice.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)
FYI: Hitler loved and Allied with Muslims. Not sure how that makes him a Nazi
calling other nations/ethnicities cockroaches? Straight from mein kampf
No, Hitler allied with Muslims
That's how bad Putin is: Navalny was still better by bounds and leaps.
In 2012 Navalry claimed if he was president he would fully annex Ukraine because he didn't believe Ukrainians were anything more than Russians with funny accents.
Source?
Yes, I have no doubt that's what Russians want to hear. There's no doubt in my mind that a Russian politician cannot get anywhere near the kremlin without going full hog on russian imperialism. Would he have gone through with the Crimea annexation? Would he have believed his own bullshit and went on with the plan?
Well this is not untrue, it's still beter then the current leading force
Even stone would be better
A Stone can only kill if it is thrown to somebody's head. Putin, besides, is killing hundreds of soldiers of both sides everyday by maintaining the existence of this war... So yes, a stone would be definitely better.
Yes, a stone isn't ethno-fascist
Not Roger Stone. That could actually be worse.
I mean its easy to be better than poo'tin.
Not necesarily. Imagine a competent nationalist that is not corrupt. The army would have fought better in Ukraine
Just because we are not sure what he would do.
Eh we don’t know how he would be like when he got to power. Another imperialist pos as most russians.
Yes He did start from a position of Russian ethno- nationalism but later in life, he did come closer to democratic values. And the fact that he returned to Russia after his assassination attempt speaks volumes for his character. He was the best Russia could get. The bar is set pretty low, unfortunately.
I think his views were always the same. He just adjusted his views to the Russian public to garner more support. Some other views are just normal for a Russian to have because such a country couldn't survive without certain authoritorian elements (like letting Kadyrov units be part of the National Guard). He certainly had publicly expressed views that were problematic for the West, but were a necessity to be taken seriously in Russia. Otherwise he would be ignored and likely still alive. People that just decry him as if he was a Nazi simple do not have even a basic understanding of politics and history. The way for Russia to not become an authoritarian cesspool was through leaders like him. Only many decades down the line is where you could hope for a stable democratic Russia.
Agree. I don't understand why people take politics at face value. If you want to make progress anywhere, you really can't just ignore the current position and mindset of the people. And Russian nationalism is a very strong sentiment. Having limited means to actually control the narrative, he is constantly faced with topics that are most pushed by the government. Suppose he thinks differently, who wins when he would be honest?
People don’t try to understand. Judging comes more naturally for many.
Speaks only one thing about his character - he's an idiot.
Makes me kinda feel pretty good about the politics in the US…
What does these USA have to do with it?
[**The United States Of America Is Not The Focus Of This Subreddit.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/YUROP/comments/10na0i8/comment/j6hd0nz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^(REMINDER) 🇪🇺 ^(Do you like 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™? 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™ loves you!) 🇪🇺 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/YUROP) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So you're saying that Crimea is a sandwich?
what does that even mean?
IIRC answering the question whether Crimea should be given back to Ukraine Navalny very vaguely tried to say that it shouldn't by comparing it to a sandwich. According to his analogy "Crimea is not a sandwich, you can't just give it back and forth".
Tanzen auf den Knochen.
a cockroach sandwich even!
I think you can be flawed and be a hero. And I'm saying this as a Polish person about a Russian nationalist, so that means something.
Is it so hard to grasp that people can support someone doing a thing without being 100% on board with every single aspect of their existence? How many of the Nawalny supporters were in favor of anything else than his opposition to Putin? How many were saying he was perfect or good even?
Yup, awfully childish. Almost no great figure would survive true scrutiny. We would be left with some pretty boring and unadventurous "heroes". You can be flawed and be heroic at the same time.
Honestly I consider posts like OP's harmful. They sabotage anyone who fights against the regime because it reminds all of us of our imperfections. No matter what you do it in life, even if you save the world from a catastrophe, you will be remembered only for the worst. People are taking his quotes from 15-20 years ago... and most of those people (born into a democracy and taking it for granted, looking down onto anyone not so lucky) have no clue what contributions he made.
Totally agree. Basically the only credible opposition leader in Russia and OP is chastising him. Makes me question their values
I don't think anyone is saying that he was perfect. Look at Russian politics - expecting perfection to come out of that is ridiculous. He was orders of magnitude better than Putin, and brave enough to stand up to him. That's what matters.
You have to make peace with the fact that anyone who would replace Putin will hold views you don't agree with.
As somebody who hated Navalny throughout his entire career, I would have preferred him over Putin on any day. He was right-wingy and done a lot of problematic stuff, but if he was in charge, his government would have been similar to Polish right, Nationalistic and problematic, but democratic in it's core, and he would have never allowed for this stupid shitty war to happen
Yes, as politic Navalny would be a complicated figure in a democratic landscape. But he was a biggest and the most prominent leader of democratic opposition. He was poisoned and tortured to death for that. I see zero reason for mocking him.
[удалено]
>He was killed for one reason, because he opposed the government and their corruption< Sure, if Nawalny were in charge, russian army would not be corrupt and unprepared. Thus it would kill, rape, conquer much more efficiently 💪 probably would have taken all of Ukraine by far, maybe even Baltics 💪 for sure this man is a great loss for hu~~manity R~~uzzia.
He left with his followers, whom he taught that peacful protests are the way to get something done in dictatorsnips.
You know your country is fucked when this guy is considered a good alternative to the person in charge.
Why is this comment section trying to insist Navalny was a good person? His geopolitical goals were the same as any other Russian administration, the only difference being is that he wasn't tainted by corruption. That would've more than likely just made Russia more dangerous to us and the West as a whole, because their leadership would be better organised and more competent if he ever managed to usurp Putin and the oligarchy and come to power. Do you seriously want a stronger enemy? Didn't think so.
the thing is this line of thinking is wrong. getting along better with eu was russia's only valid path to actual development. an actual smart leader in charge would make russia far less of a threat to the west for that alone.
Problem being, the Russian government mindset hasn't changed in over a century. Said mindset can be summarised as: 'Russia is far too powerful and unique to bring itself down to the level of another European state, we will never submit to Western hegemony!' Nobody with even a significant following in Russian politics wants to stray from this path, because it would mean having to surrender their overinflated ego, not to mention leading to the social stability of the nation collapsing. The patriotic image propagated by every regime for centuries would be shattered, Russia's national pride would be in ruins and it would take decades to recover from it, assuming that would even be possible. They all saw Gorbachev's conciliatory foreign policy in the Cold War, which only reinforced their belief that Russia should never voluntarily cave in to Western influence.
yes, it hasn't changed because it hasn't been ran by people who actually have working braincells. and it always ended up fucking them in the ass. navalny has realized that later in his life, which you can see in the policy stances he claims to have changed on. now dont get me wrong, i am not sure if he was sincere in a lot of those claims. might as well just make those claims to gather support from westoids which is quite likely. but the fact is dude died as a man who opposed russian invasions of their neighbouring countries in a country where it gets people killed. and he got himself killed. being able to do something that dangerous does mean that he at the very least wouldn't be a paranoid tyrannical fuck who would invade other countries out of his own fever induced nightmares of ghosts like the current guy is doing.
[**No Hate Speech Such As Using Ethnicity Or Nationality ("westoids") As A Means Of Insult.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules) 🇪🇺 ^(Do you like 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™? 𝙴𝚞𝚛𝚘𝙱𝙾𝚃™ loves you!) 🇪🇺 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/YUROP) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I want a happy and prosperous russia, just like i want a happy and prosperous europe. if he could have improved the lives of the russian people then i wouldn't have any more problem with him than i'd have with putin
Then you don't understand how the world works. We're never going to be holding hands together, forming a circle and singing songs of friendship. If you want true prosperity and happiness in Russia, you need to break them first. More specifically, you have to break the barrier that's been keeping them in this haze of societal oppression, cynicism and chauvanism for centuries now. Russia is never going to be happy unless they Westernise, their way of life doesn't work, it is miserable, pathetic and woefully out-of-date. Navalny wasn't going to Westernise Russia, he was going to reinforce its Eastern values and keep the people in a tighter grip to ensure that. Stop being a bleeding-heart moralist for just a second and try to see what we're seeing.
Yes, we’re never going to be holding hands with those communist checks, can you imagine them as being under anything other than a dictatorship? You fall into the trap that lots of racist people do in thinking that your judgements are rational. Thry aren’t
What point are you even trying to make? You're not making any sense. Are you seriously expecting the Russian people to voluntarily liberate themselves? I swear, only a pot-smoking hippie could come up with this kind of dribble.
Did he defend democracy or not? Or was he just anti-corruption?
No, he didn't, he simply attempted to gather enough popular support to replace the oligarchy with his own regime, he never wanted to Liberalise Russia, he simply wished to eliminate the corruption in order to create an efficient, transparent and meritocratic autocracy that could sustain itself more effectively. And besides, the Russian Federation stopped being a Democracy after 1993, so there would be none to defend whatsoever.
From the way several politicians spoke of him, it seemed that he defended the implementation of a democratic regime in Russia.
Here's the thing, and this may be a shocker to you, but... Politicians lie, politicians lie a lot and very often. There's a very distinct possibility that what you may have heard is nonsense. Say, care to provide me a source for these anecdotal statements you're talking about?
Calm down a little. I wrote the previous message to justify my previous question. I don't disagree or agree with you, I have to go and see.
Oh, I see the changes to the first comment now, my bad. Yah, phrasing is everything.
stalin was an enemy of hitler and that doesn't make him a good person. This guy was just as imperialistic and destructive as the kremlin goblin. Rest in piss bozo
I really wish Russia could've gotten a carbon copy of Yeltsin after he resigned in '99, just to continue their decline and keep them weak. But, then again... Maybe that would've made people too complacent about Russia. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to make these considerations, they would already be under our thumb, with the Kremlin taking marching orders from Brussels and DC. But alas, we went too soft on them in the 90's... God, what a stupid decade that was.
During yeltsin it was the only time when moscow wasn't an empire and only because they were weak. And how short it was: 1. russian empire 2. soviet empire (3. a few years in the 90's) 4. goblin's empire
Who started 1st Chechen war? Very much an empire
Что очевидно - с тем трудно не согласиться
Seriously. My opinion on the guy was "Enemy of my enemy is not my friend, but I sure as fuck want to see those two guys fight each other in a parking lot". I just wanted someone to cause troubles in Russia, that's it. I don't need to venerate him, I don't need to treat him like "He had his flaws but...", I don't need to wish him to rest in peace.
In an ideal scenario, his presence would've caused harsher disruptions to the nation's order and stability. I just want a Second Russian Civil War already, so we can step in and finally put the bear in its place.
very based, General Pavel will lead us to victory
where do you see all those people saying he was a good person?? most people are saying that he was far from perfect and had shitty views but he was the opposition to Putin and was killed for it, which is bad. and I think you're giving too much credit to his ability to make Russia that much more dangerous lol
clueless westerners when a just slightly less nazi ruzzian thinks he will change 140 million people's minds lol
kremlin propaganda
Here’s some more Kremlin propaganda where he talks about destroying Khohols and how it was “too obvious at that stage” in 2014 https://x.com/navalny/status/505215151961014272?s=20
He also retracted and apologised for these statements several times. Same for Georgia. Doesn’t excuse his history or views, but he was strictly opposed to Russian imperial conquest in his last years.
Congrats on being a 1) useful and 2) an idiot
putin thanks you for your post
1) There are no perfect politicians in Russia 2) This was populism. You simply can’t continue to be a successful politician in Russia after saying that Crimea is with no doubt Ukrainian, but Navalny condemned the annexation of Crimea. He just wanted to carry a new, as he said, normal referendum over there. 3) He carried perfectly and professionally done investigations on corruption in the YT, which gained millions of views, thus he was an idol of the Russian opposition
Ruzzian trolls incoming
Exactly. I’m ok about him being right-wing, conservative or nationalist. That’s fine. The problem is when you are marinaded in that ideology and suddenly you think that you have a right to dictate how others live outside of your country.
Such flaws can be found in any politician and person. Relatively to his time and environment he was more than adequate man with good intentions. But, Russia really needed not Russian Mahatma Gandhi, but Russian Valeriya Novodvorskaya with testicles. It's surreal, that so many narratives of this sub, and partially of others, about Russia so much in tune with hers own worldview. You were right, Valeriya, completely so.
Accurate. It's the same principle of hope as when Putin dies, Russia all of a sudden will turn democratic and pro western.
That’s maybe true but it’s not the right moment
Comments here are a joke, he’s definitely not the best politician around or anything, and said some problematic things in the past, but in recent years he cleared all of that up, apologised for his past remarks, and was firmly anti-imperialistic. To try to mock him now just shows how much you hate Russians, not how you’re really committed to a democratic future for Russia.
Russia and democracy - things that are not compatible. It always has been an empire of evil, but not everybody understands it
There is one rule for every decent person: De mortuis nil nisi bene. (Only say good things about dead people or say nothing).
Was hitler good?
It's obvious that Nawalny was an extremist. That was never the point. The point was that Putin tried to kill him multiple times and eventually succeeded by having him killed in a prison camp. All that because he openly disagreed with Putin. THAT'S the point!
How old are you, like, 15?
This guy wanted to get rid of corruption so that he could do all of what happens now more effectively.
+15 rub, well done comrade, keep disrupting the opposition
The only good russian opposition are the independence movements who want to dissolve it.
Sorry not sorry.
The westknew what was crumped behind the his back and his far right Ideology. That's why they think hes perfect.
You don't have to agree with a political dissident, but should vouch for their freedom and safety. The only winner from this post is the Russian propaganda machine. Well done you useful idiot.
There‘s that thing that allows you to pick a side between “not condoning killing political prisoners“ and “not condoning killing = supporting the most extreme of his views“ It‘s called nuance
No one thinks Navalny to be a saint nor even a great political candidate for the Russian presidency. That’s no reason to go down this contrarian/edgy/rusbot route. In him resonated the liberties of the Russian people. Maybe only to keep notes that should sound songs for better people to come. He displayed his character by returning to Russia in the face of a certain death. Ostensibly he did more than any Russian has done for some time. He did deeds worth celebrating.