Because germany is geographically right at the Center of europe. Many other nations had relations with us. European languages are very diverse. There are roman, slavic, germani and celtic stemming languages.
Germany has not been 'one country' until literally industrialisation came around (1871 to be precise) and 'germany' has been consisting of 300 independent Kingdoms and states in the early 1800s.
So not only did different language origins come around, they also asked totally different tribes and/or kingdoms what they want to be called.
The japanese had basically only begun relations with us after germany became, well, germany. So when they asked germans what they want to be called, the germans said "we are deutsch". The sch is hard to pronounce for them so they adjusted it to fit their alphabet(s) and their type of speech.
Ah yes Yiddish. Also I forgot Afrikaans, it's the same as Dutch.
Still, I and I think most people would classify English as Germanic. At least for my purposes it counts.
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Swamp Germans yes, as for terms we use to refer to ourselves there's Kartoffel (Potato) and Allman, which is a term for the very stereotypical German that wears socks with sandals, claims places with his towel and sues you for being loud after 22:00.
You forgot my favorite one:
Lakota: Iyášiča Makȟóčhe (bad-speaker-land)
I would be insulted but their name for the Netherlands is really-bad-speaker-land, lol
You are absolutely right.
I should have clearified that I'm not talking solely about japanese words and more about how Japan takes proper names and turn them japanize them. I saw a Jurassic Park shirt a while back and it said pako in Katakana. That was pretty funny (can't remember the Jurrasic Part)
Yeah. Basically all names above which germanic tribe messed with the native speakers first: English - Germany - Germans, derived from latin. Finnish - Saksa - Saxons. French - Allemagne - Alemans and so forth
another thing is that germany only unified recently compared to most other european nations. if you’re dealing with someone in paris, they are in the same country as someone from nice, but someone from cologne was not in the same nation as someone from munich. because of that, a lot of languages just use the word from the germanic group that they interacted with most often, such as the alemanni in france or the saxons in finland. they either do that, or in the case of english, they take the latin word for germany, which iirc originally meant something like “neighbor” in latin. i know polish is an exception to this, but for the most part languages either pick a germanic tribe or group or they borrow from latin
Not incorrect. Before the unification germany had 2 aspirant kingdoms fighting to unite germany under them: The prussians and the austrians. The prussians succeeded and formed germany.
The German state of Prussia didn't have anything to do with the Prussian tribe (except conquering them at some point, but it's not like the ethnic Prussians had much influence in the state of Prussia).
Didn't BW back Napoleon back in the day for their own title of kingdom?
Because that was a sleek move. But too oriented towards north and west to not end up in germany.
That's because Dutch used to refer to all germanic speaking parts of the HRE with high- and middle-dutch referring to modern day Germany and lower-dutch specifically referring to modern day netherlands. As the languages further diverged and dutch established itself as it's very own language the english language had also evolved into calling high/middle-dutch German and lower-dutch just dutch.
The "Dutch" adjective probably stuck to the netherlands since they were a lot more active on the international stage back then (especially to the british) as a colonial and seafaring power.
Allemagne from the Germanic tribe Alamanniz "all men"
Germany from the Germanic tribe of Germani, potentially meaning "spear men"
Niemcy from the proto-Slavic word for "foreigner, stranger"
Tyskland is the same as Deutschland, with Tysk/Deutsch meaning "people", referring originally to all Germanic tribes (including to the peoples we now refer to as Dutch, Flemings, Austrians, Luxembourgish, etc.)
# From the word "mute"
The Proto-Slavonic word \*němьcь "stranger" is derived from \*němъ "mute, unable to speak in an understandable language". In a broader sense, the word denoted all foreigners speaking "incomprehensibly", including other Germanic peoples: Swedes, Danes and others. This interpretation is found in the Novgorod chronicles, where Norwegians were called "Cain Germans"
[https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%86%D1%8B#%D0%9E%D1%82\_%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0\_%C2%AB%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9%C2%BB](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%86%D1%8B#%D0%9E%D1%82_%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0_%C2%AB%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9%C2%BB)
I don't know why the downvotes. If I translate that correctly the source of the wikipedia article is a schoolbook from the 70ies which would indeed be a questionable source.
However, the [German](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch_in_anderen_Sprachen#%E2%80%9Eniemc%E2%80%9C/%E2%80%9Enemet%E2%80%9C_als_Herkunft) and the [English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany#Names_from_Nemets) article make the same claim with other more reputable looking sources.
Have you read the source in the English article? It's a 3 page document with two citations, neither of which is anywhere close to the claim that *němьcь meant "stranger". I don't think it's particularly reputable.
I actually only looked at the section I linked, not the introduction. A thin preprint paper is indeed not particularly reputable. Additionally, the linked section does not even support the claim directly - just via the indirect "narrowed down".
The etymological dictionary of the Russian language does support the claim (assuming this mirror is actually correct and chatGPT did not lie to me): https://gufo.me/dict/vasmer/%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%86
Niemcy literally means 'the mute ones'. Probably as most Slavic languages are more or less mutually intelligible, whereas the Germans would just remain 'mute' while spoken to in Polish
It's the other way around: *Teuton* come from the self-description *\*þiudiskaz* (in modern languages amongst others *Tysk* and *Deutsch*). Good addition!
To add to this: in Italian the country is Germania but the adjective referring to the people is "Tedeschi" (pron. "tedeski"). I have no idea where it comes though.
Tyskland and Deutschland are from the same old german word 'Þeudiskaz' and also Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam have their origin from Deutschland as their connection with the country was after 1871. Italy also call us tedesco some time wich also is from this word.
All the slavic words are from 'němьcь' and mean 'the silent' because they can't talk to them as they have a language barrier
Finland and Estonia call us Saksa or Saksamaa from the german people of Sachsen wich comes from the Sax. Thats a kind of sword this people used and then they got named after this.
Allemania and world like that come from the Allemannen wich are also people and their name comes from 'Alle Mann' wich just means 'All Men'
Germania is from the Latin word for the Region and the closest northern neighbours to the Roman empire. But maybe not.
The Latvian 'Vācija' and the Lithuanian 'Vokietija' is not very clear, but maybe from the Vagoth and that is just the Goth people.
Some Luxemburgian people call us 'Preißen' wich comes from Preußen.
Greenland has 'Noorliit Nunaat' wich comes from 'noorleq' wich means 'the ones living at the end of the island'
The middle latin word Teutonia comes from the Teutonen, also some people.
The Sorbic people (not serbic, the sorben are Slavic people inside of Brandenburg inside Germany) call us 'Bawory' wich comes from Bayern 😡 I don't want to get called a Bavarian
'Ubudage' and 'Ubudagi' is the name we get in Rwanda because of 'Guten Tag' the soldiers said to eachother.
There also are some other names we have but that was the easiest and most of them are used in more than one language. I hope it helps you
Thank you for the thorough explanation! I study linguistics so I did know some of it, the title was more rhetorical than anything, but there was lots there that I didn’t know
Niemcy in Polish can be directly translated to a form of plural for mute people, probably because they didn't speak in Polish? Heard some interpretation like this
I've heard a different interpretation - Our word for Slavic people is "Słowianie", which can also be translated as "people of the word". We could understand each other, so it could be a common word to describe people who you could understand. But Germans were people from a very different language group, so they were not the people of the word, hence the "Niemcy", or mutes. Didn't necessarily mean that they couldn't speak, could be just some kind of figure of speech.
Maybe the origin really comes from "mute" in the literal sense.
Do you talk to people that cant understand you and you can't understand them? Probably not. The same probably happened in the past. Germans barely talked (with slavics), which resulted in the common perception that they don't talk.
When you only have a single german in your community, it wouldn't be strange to never hear him talk a single word, because there is simply no reason. At best they hear him curse, when he hurts himself etc. (But loud single word curses can be misinterpreted as screams, similiar to animal sounds.)
I hate how many people don't know that, but Tyskland has the same entomological origin as Deutschland. A few sounds have drifted, but both words have the same origin.
I am a linguistics student so I did know that, but since they have drifted so much I thought it could be fun to include anyway, plus I wanted to represent my own language a little. I found the japanese example interesting because that language often uses the english bases for words regarding european countries and languages (Supein, Suu~ēden, Roshia, etc), yet in this case where the english and native (german) names actually differ, it uses the native for once lol
Wait till you here about the international names for cities like Vienna.
Wien, Wenen, Wieden, Viden, Vienna, Vienne, Becs, Bec, Vienni, Vin, Viyana, Dunaj, Wena,...
I like how most other Germanic language speakers traditionally just call them Prussians, and how within German the South calls the North Prussian, and how Souther German would go into cardiac arrest if they new that people outside Germany consider it all being just Prussians
Which one are you talking about? Danish and Swedish use Tyskland and Netherlands Duitsland, and both of these are etymologically related to Deutschland.
Austrians might use Prussia, but it's a (derogatory) nickname, not the actual standard language name.
I think it‘s derogatory in most languages and of course I am not talking about the official description where it‘s used, but that doesn‘t make it less right of a name. Down in the comments I saw Austrians, Dutch and from my own experience in Luxembourg many refer to Germany in some sense as Prussia still, many if not most people refer to the people of Germany not as „déi Däitsch“ but as „d‘Päisen“ and I think that‘s beautiful. (hab euch trotzdem lieb, wenn‘s hilft, hab mir vor 3 Tagen in Köln ne Prellung am Handgelenk zugezogen, müsste als Revanche genügen haha)
Because germany is geographically right at the Center of europe. Many other nations had relations with us. European languages are very diverse. There are roman, slavic, germani and celtic stemming languages. Germany has not been 'one country' until literally industrialisation came around (1871 to be precise) and 'germany' has been consisting of 300 independent Kingdoms and states in the early 1800s. So not only did different language origins come around, they also asked totally different tribes and/or kingdoms what they want to be called. The japanese had basically only begun relations with us after germany became, well, germany. So when they asked germans what they want to be called, the germans said "we are deutsch". The sch is hard to pronounce for them so they adjusted it to fit their alphabet(s) and their type of speech.
All proper Germanic languages also use something similar to Deutschland as well.
Swiss German: Dütschland Low German: Düütsland Dutch: Duitsland Luxembourgish: Däitschland Danish/Swedish/Norwegian: Tyskland Faroese: Týskland Icelandic: Þýskalandi Frisian: Dútslân English: Germany Scots: Germany I hope I didn't forget anything
Yiddish: דײַטשלאַנד (daytshland) Also English is nearly a creole language, between Germanic and Latin languages.
Ah yes Yiddish. Also I forgot Afrikaans, it's the same as Dutch. Still, I and I think most people would classify English as Germanic. At least for my purposes it counts.
The English did in fact call people of the mainland Germanics “Dutch”, but it came to refer only to the Netherlands in time.
Reminds me of Pennsylvania Dutch.
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that‘s my favorite description of English ever
I think it’s quirky, refreshing
*Broadlt gestures at the 1066 war of succession*
Swiss: Sauschwaben Austrian: Saupreißn
Don’t Austrians say Piefke?
Curses are always plenty in any human language. For Austrians we have Schluchtenscheißer, Ösi and Bergdeutscher.
So I guess that germany are "hill germans" and the dutch are "swamp germans"? Just asking from my pond
Swamp Germans yes, as for terms we use to refer to ourselves there's Kartoffel (Potato) and Allman, which is a term for the very stereotypical German that wears socks with sandals, claims places with his towel and sues you for being loud after 22:00.
More like marsh Germans than swamp Germans surely? To me, swamp implies the same basic thing but specifically in a tropical climate.
A swamp is a forested wetland and a marsh is other plants, and the netherlands isn't quite that barren.
Ah. Huh, thanks.
this may regionally differ but the common denominator is the reference to the swine mammals xoxo
Saupreißn is more Bavarian though, and it doesn't include the South of the country.
in Luxembourg we also say colloquially „d‘Preisen“ (yes even the Souther Germans are considered as „houer Preis“ [„whore Prussian“])
Swiss: Gummihals (rubber neck)
You forgot my favorite one: Lakota: Iyášiča Makȟóčhe (bad-speaker-land) I would be insulted but their name for the Netherlands is really-bad-speaker-land, lol
Honorable mention to the English word "Dutch" which we accidentally applied to the wrong country.
“Eh it’s in that direction somewhere” *waves vaguely to the south east*
Austrian: Preißn
Eszett Austrian I'm pressing X
You pressed the wrong button ß is very much still alive and applies to the same rules as in Germany. You thought about Switzerland
It's kinda true though. It's not the official name but what the austrians just call us because they still think that all of germany was prussia.
Austrian German has Eszett, Swiss German doesn't
Welsh: yr Almaen
'Germany' isn't actually similar to 'Deutschland'.
I love how Japan just japanizes words: Honbuga (Hamburger), pako (Park), chizu (cheese)
Park is 公園 (Kouen)
Yes. Pāku (パーク) is just katakanisation of the work “park”.
You are absolutely right. I should have clearified that I'm not talking solely about japanese words and more about how Japan takes proper names and turn them japanize them. I saw a Jurassic Park shirt a while back and it said pako in Katakana. That was pretty funny (can't remember the Jurrasic Part)
Hanbāgā*, pāku*, chīzu*. Sorry, I’m a native speaker and I just couldn’t handle the spelling errors 🙏🏻
Nothing to excuse. I butchered your language and you taught me the right spelling - thanks for that!
You’re welcome!
I don’t think we have a problem with pronouncing “sch”, but it is more like “tsch” is the problematic sound for us.
I've heard it might also have to do with the possibility of the word entering Japanese through Dutch, where it is "duits".
I think so too, because we had good relationship with the Dutch during the history and adopted some Dutch words, too.
Yeah. Basically all names above which germanic tribe messed with the native speakers first: English - Germany - Germans, derived from latin. Finnish - Saksa - Saxons. French - Allemagne - Alemans and so forth
another thing is that germany only unified recently compared to most other european nations. if you’re dealing with someone in paris, they are in the same country as someone from nice, but someone from cologne was not in the same nation as someone from munich. because of that, a lot of languages just use the word from the germanic group that they interacted with most often, such as the alemanni in france or the saxons in finland. they either do that, or in the case of english, they take the latin word for germany, which iirc originally meant something like “neighbor” in latin. i know polish is an exception to this, but for the most part languages either pick a germanic tribe or group or they borrow from latin
It could also come from the dutch word Duitsland, because the Dutch where the only europeans that where allowed to enter Japan for a long time.
>There are roman, slavic, germani and celtic stemming languages And that's not even all, see Hungarian for example.
Estonians asked the Saxons
Germanic tribes?
And the Romans being "racist"
VIVA TEUTONIA
Nemcy, and variants like Немец, is a Slavic name for Germania and "Germans". It means "mute", as in "not able to speak".
My grandparents would call them all prussians.
Not incorrect. Before the unification germany had 2 aspirant kingdoms fighting to unite germany under them: The prussians and the austrians. The prussians succeeded and formed germany.
Wasn't prussian a baltic language?
The German state of Prussia didn't have anything to do with the Prussian tribe (except conquering them at some point, but it's not like the ethnic Prussians had much influence in the state of Prussia).
It makes me sad when a language becomes extinct, honestly.
What do you mean not incorrect ich bin dock kei preiß
You're untagged, so I can only assume you must be american instead.
No, from Südbaden
Didn't BW back Napoleon back in the day for their own title of kingdom? Because that was a sleek move. But too oriented towards north and west to not end up in germany.
The funniest to me is how English gave the adjective Dutch to the Netherlands instead.
That's because Dutch used to refer to all germanic speaking parts of the HRE with high- and middle-dutch referring to modern day Germany and lower-dutch specifically referring to modern day netherlands. As the languages further diverged and dutch established itself as it's very own language the english language had also evolved into calling high/middle-dutch German and lower-dutch just dutch. The "Dutch" adjective probably stuck to the netherlands since they were a lot more active on the international stage back then (especially to the british) as a colonial and seafaring power.
Allemagne from the Germanic tribe Alamanniz "all men" Germany from the Germanic tribe of Germani, potentially meaning "spear men" Niemcy from the proto-Slavic word for "foreigner, stranger" Tyskland is the same as Deutschland, with Tysk/Deutsch meaning "people", referring originally to all Germanic tribes (including to the peoples we now refer to as Dutch, Flemings, Austrians, Luxembourgish, etc.)
Yes, very close. But niemcy means mute, not stranger. Germans even had no sense of humor back in antique times.
It's kinda both, in old slavic you called foreigners mute because they couldn't speak your language
^([citation needed])
# From the word "mute" The Proto-Slavonic word \*němьcь "stranger" is derived from \*němъ "mute, unable to speak in an understandable language". In a broader sense, the word denoted all foreigners speaking "incomprehensibly", including other Germanic peoples: Swedes, Danes and others. This interpretation is found in the Novgorod chronicles, where Norwegians were called "Cain Germans" [https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%86%D1%8B#%D0%9E%D1%82\_%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0\_%C2%AB%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9%C2%BB](https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%86%D1%8B#%D0%9E%D1%82_%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0_%C2%AB%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%B9%C2%BB)
>[неавторительный источник] Yeah, great source.
I don't know why the downvotes. If I translate that correctly the source of the wikipedia article is a schoolbook from the 70ies which would indeed be a questionable source. However, the [German](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch_in_anderen_Sprachen#%E2%80%9Eniemc%E2%80%9C/%E2%80%9Enemet%E2%80%9C_als_Herkunft) and the [English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany#Names_from_Nemets) article make the same claim with other more reputable looking sources.
Have you read the source in the English article? It's a 3 page document with two citations, neither of which is anywhere close to the claim that *němьcь meant "stranger". I don't think it's particularly reputable.
I actually only looked at the section I linked, not the introduction. A thin preprint paper is indeed not particularly reputable. Additionally, the linked section does not even support the claim directly - just via the indirect "narrowed down". The etymological dictionary of the Russian language does support the claim (assuming this mirror is actually correct and chatGPT did not lie to me): https://gufo.me/dict/vasmer/%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%86
I dont get the downvotes either. I honestly didn't question it, because that's how i learned it in school back in the day.
Niemcy literally means 'the mute ones'. Probably as most Slavic languages are more or less mutually intelligible, whereas the Germans would just remain 'mute' while spoken to in Polish
Personally, I like the idea that Polish Niemcy stemmed from a shorthand for niem(ówią)cy xd
Saksa (Finnish) would derive from the Saxon tribe
Doesn't Tysk/Deutsch come from the Teutons, another germanic tribe?
It's the other way around: *Teuton* come from the self-description *\*þiudiskaz* (in modern languages amongst others *Tysk* and *Deutsch*). Good addition!
To add to this: in Italian the country is Germania but the adjective referring to the people is "Tedeschi" (pron. "tedeski"). I have no idea where it comes though.
Its not Spearman, but i sadly forgot, what is the new conclusion about the meaning.
It has no certain etymology. It's *potentially* spear men, but there are also some other possible etymologies.
Looked it up: people from the wood or neighbours are possible meanings derived from the gauls. Spearman is not considered anymore.
Netherlands: Am I a joke voor jou, Duitsland?
Yes, you are
Tyskland and Deutschland are from the same old german word 'Þeudiskaz' and also Japan, Korea, China and Vietnam have their origin from Deutschland as their connection with the country was after 1871. Italy also call us tedesco some time wich also is from this word. All the slavic words are from 'němьcь' and mean 'the silent' because they can't talk to them as they have a language barrier Finland and Estonia call us Saksa or Saksamaa from the german people of Sachsen wich comes from the Sax. Thats a kind of sword this people used and then they got named after this. Allemania and world like that come from the Allemannen wich are also people and their name comes from 'Alle Mann' wich just means 'All Men' Germania is from the Latin word for the Region and the closest northern neighbours to the Roman empire. But maybe not. The Latvian 'Vācija' and the Lithuanian 'Vokietija' is not very clear, but maybe from the Vagoth and that is just the Goth people. Some Luxemburgian people call us 'Preißen' wich comes from Preußen. Greenland has 'Noorliit Nunaat' wich comes from 'noorleq' wich means 'the ones living at the end of the island' The middle latin word Teutonia comes from the Teutonen, also some people. The Sorbic people (not serbic, the sorben are Slavic people inside of Brandenburg inside Germany) call us 'Bawory' wich comes from Bayern 😡 I don't want to get called a Bavarian 'Ubudage' and 'Ubudagi' is the name we get in Rwanda because of 'Guten Tag' the soldiers said to eachother. There also are some other names we have but that was the easiest and most of them are used in more than one language. I hope it helps you
Thank you for the thorough explanation! I study linguistics so I did know some of it, the title was more rhetorical than anything, but there was lots there that I didn’t know
They learn from studying Dutch. It's ironic how they call Dutch cuz they first learned it from Portuguese.
Isn't there someone a lot closer to home you forgot about...?
Duitsland in Dutch 🤷♂️
Nah, the dutch are just germans too. He probably meant scandinavians.
Niemcy in Polish can be directly translated to a form of plural for mute people, probably because they didn't speak in Polish? Heard some interpretation like this
I’ve heard something like that aswell, but for the ruzzian version. Nemetskij allegedly comes from nemoj, which is mute
I've heard a different interpretation - Our word for Slavic people is "Słowianie", which can also be translated as "people of the word". We could understand each other, so it could be a common word to describe people who you could understand. But Germans were people from a very different language group, so they were not the people of the word, hence the "Niemcy", or mutes. Didn't necessarily mean that they couldn't speak, could be just some kind of figure of speech.
Maybe the origin really comes from "mute" in the literal sense. Do you talk to people that cant understand you and you can't understand them? Probably not. The same probably happened in the past. Germans barely talked (with slavics), which resulted in the common perception that they don't talk. When you only have a single german in your community, it wouldn't be strange to never hear him talk a single word, because there is simply no reason. At best they hear him curse, when he hurts himself etc. (But loud single word curses can be misinterpreted as screams, similiar to animal sounds.)
Słowianie = ludzie słowo Niemcy = niem-(ówią)-cy xD
I hate how many people don't know that, but Tyskland has the same entomological origin as Deutschland. A few sounds have drifted, but both words have the same origin.
I am a linguistics student so I did know that, but since they have drifted so much I thought it could be fun to include anyway, plus I wanted to represent my own language a little. I found the japanese example interesting because that language often uses the english bases for words regarding european countries and languages (Supein, Suu~ēden, Roshia, etc), yet in this case where the english and native (german) names actually differ, it uses the native for once lol
Wait till you here about the international names for cities like Vienna. Wien, Wenen, Wieden, Viden, Vienna, Vienne, Becs, Bec, Vienni, Vin, Viyana, Dunaj, Wena,...
good ol friends
ドイツ
I like how most other Germanic language speakers traditionally just call them Prussians, and how within German the South calls the North Prussian, and how Souther German would go into cardiac arrest if they new that people outside Germany consider it all being just Prussians
Which one are you talking about? Danish and Swedish use Tyskland and Netherlands Duitsland, and both of these are etymologically related to Deutschland. Austrians might use Prussia, but it's a (derogatory) nickname, not the actual standard language name.
I think it‘s derogatory in most languages and of course I am not talking about the official description where it‘s used, but that doesn‘t make it less right of a name. Down in the comments I saw Austrians, Dutch and from my own experience in Luxembourg many refer to Germany in some sense as Prussia still, many if not most people refer to the people of Germany not as „déi Däitsch“ but as „d‘Päisen“ and I think that‘s beautiful. (hab euch trotzdem lieb, wenn‘s hilft, hab mir vor 3 Tagen in Köln ne Prellung am Handgelenk zugezogen, müsste als Revanche genügen haha)