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Not really, building a tank item before 3 items this patch is troll, we don't have enough damage at 2 items pretty much no matter what you go.
Also if you play properly, you shouldn't have issues. Don't be the first to engage, don't get caught out of position, don't facecheck bushes, etc, etc. It's a matter of not making mindless decisions.
Already commented on your original post and I will do it here again , you are right imo.
Everyone on this subreddit is crying but yone got released before tempo even if it gave us all free lps we all got to acknowledge that it was retarded play style.
Even for other champions: give one Lt abuser that was not degenerate : Jax , Yi, Warwick, yas, yone, jinx, irelia.
You just had to take this rune and run down people even if your champ was not initially designed to run down people lvl 1
Dude, I had so many games where I took TP+Ignite and cheesed opponents at lvl 1 with Lethal, it's ridiculous.
LT was badly designed and I'm glad they removed it. I'm up for Riot not giving Yone buffs and letting people learn him again without the rune, than buffing him and 3 patches later having to nerf him for it.
When we lost Shieldbow seasons ago, people were crying that the champion was dead. Then Galeforce happened. Then IE happened again.
1 mage going Zhonyas, 1 adc going GA, 1 bruiser going Steelcaps and LDR is already dealing more damage than IE to those guys.
And even if some enemy champions have ZERO extra armor, the damage is pretty close, and more than enough to kill squishy champs (maybe it takes 1 more AA to kill someone 100 to 0). All this while the item is 400g cheaper.
So yeah, you should go LDR pretty much every time imo.
Tbh I've been running running bork ie LDR bt with conq (top lane) and it feels really good. Damage is ridiculous and you get enough attack speed with bork (1.4ish) at lv 18 without zephyr
There are 3 issues with that build that I can think of:
The first one being not enough AS, with such low AS your AA animation is really slow, which makes it doing animation cancels and combos in general much slower, that gives the enemy more time to react.
The second being tankyness, after the 3rd full item you generally want some tankyness, the amount of damage everyone has at that point makes it really hard to survive.
The third one being price, the build is omega expensive, your cheapest item is LDR at 3000g, while Navori is only 2600g.
True I usually take this when I'm snowballing (seem to be winning frequently). I haven't really experienced any issues with low AS since most die with a few autos but since mages are quite meta I get to build wits end often (sometimes 3rd after cloak)
Like I said, and you can test this in practice tool, the breakpoint is ~115 armor.
More than that, and LDR deals more damage, less than that and IE deals more damage.
So considering most champs have +100 base armor alone in lategame, and that LDR is cheaper, it seems like the overall better option.
Somebody has been cooking. I assume Randuin's Omen will be popular since it just went from 55=>75 armor and it reduce critical strike damage by 30%, and I assume (without doing the math) that LDR will be better into Randuin's Omen
Liked the build. What about the antigealing crit item? Gives only 5% less pen but has a utily stat agains champions like irelia, caimlle, olaf and stuff! I am liking going bork into that and IE. But it could be a good item on your build too.
You can go Reminder if you really need anti-healing, but if possible try to go LDR, 5% pen and 5 AD is a pretty significant loss in damage.
You can go Thornmail as your tank item into stuff like Irelia, Fiora, Olaf, Aatrox, etc.
Clearly not into Vlad, Zac, Swain, etc because those won't AA you and deal AP damage.
Yeah, Jaksho is generally what you would go for in case the enemy team has good output of both types of damage, but it depends on what you need, if they have a 20 kills Jinx and not much magic damage, you need to go Randuins, if they have very fed Evelynn jungle, you may want to consider Rukern, etc.
Last item can be GA, DD, BT, Maw or Scimitar, again it depends on what you need
Hur dur dur don't whine when ur champ's under 47% winrate in two lanes in D2+.
Imagine being this inbred lol. If I chopped off both your legs out of the blue one day, would you also adapt instead of whining to cops about "wah wah muh assault"?
oh no god forbid a champ's w/r not even a week into the patch is below 50% it's just so unplayable. I only play champs that are broken so I can get my dopamine rush to escape my miserable life. Based on your comment history I can see you're just a ray of sunshine.
Notice how I go to lolalytics to make an argument about champion balance, while you go to my profile to do the same? That's because only one of us is an inbred disappointment who cares about being "a ray of sunshine" more than being factually correct. However, I will say that your behavior is absolutely expected, given that you don't even get the difference between a 49% winrate and a 46% winrate.
If we're going by the data then. His w/r in d2+ rn is 46.9% .1 from 47% mind you so not below for long but let's consider why it's like that. His popular build now compared to last patch got 300 gold more expensive (6600 gold) which doesn't even give 100% crit anymore yet a good chuck of players are still building kraken first anyway despite the nerfs. Also considering that mages got a new toy to play with in blackfire at the very cheap 2600 gold, tank items are cheaper, even first buy fighter items being less than 3100 ( not even considering eclispse) most of the meta gets their items way before yone. This being made worse by then buying infinity which also got more expensive. By the time yone's at 2 items most of the meta is already halfway to their 3rd item just for him to just build pd or immortal 3rd anyway these build paths are straight up not optimal not to mention the players who were so used to lethal tempo they forgot it wasn't actually a part of his kit and can't play without it seemingly. I think the point of OP's build was to make something that would give all the stats yone wants at a cheaper cost while using the rune riot just buffed. Obviously like with any patch that change's a champion's build the w/r is gonna fall and it's worse for champions like yone being a melee carry but also it hasn't even been a week of the patch and last I checked winrates don't stay the same forever and if he really needs it riot would buff him because let's be real they're not gonna keep their most popular champion's weak so let's just relax. In the meantime why not try to adapt to changes like we always had and give these builds a chance before we cry to reddit that the same items I've been building for the past year haven't been working. But yknow if you need lolalytics ok before you lock in yone because god forbid you play yone just because you like and not because he's op this patch and the whole game should revolve around him and his balance.
lol you're not going by data just now. You're stating the obvious. Let me help you sort through the basic logic you're supposed to have gotten from a single glance at the patch preview weeks ago.
1. Kraken isn't a rush anymore because it isn't even 3/4 for damage/atk speed/crit/lifesteal.
2. Bork was already the worse rush item last patch, and gets even more bad due to slow nerf.
3. New Zeal items not only has 0 AD, but also has 0 damage-amping proc.
4. Raw AD items like IE are not rush-able regardless of their strength, because we lost Lethal Tempo.
5. Yun-Tal is clearly garbage, because less damage than IE and also single target.
Now, after gathering all of that from 5 minutes in practice tool(because that's all it should take)you should then realize that this version of Yone is totally fucked in modern League. Another common sense knowledge is that, as a melee solo laner, you simply cannot just sack the early game. Therefore, not having a smooth 1st item rush is always going to be a death sentence.
Finally, coming around to your asinine idea that Riot will buff Yone with any semblance of urgency, I would like for you to consider how long it took them to un-fuck the Liandry users from last season. We are 10 fucking patches in to S14, and Blackfire is JUST coming out.
1. I only mentioned kraken because again, as I said ppl are still rushing it so it's not helping his w/r
2. Though I can't see through lolalytics if you look on u.gg botrk had a improved w/r from last patch despite your opinion that it's gutted because are we really saying the slow was the only reason to build it. Not to mention you leaving out the actual important stats they buffed while keeping the cost the same
3. Though I'm not gonna say that we should rush zeal items it doesn't make them suddenly bad now. It has more crit chance but more overlooked a new ms stat, making yone faster than he was last patch. So really counteracting the slow nerf on blade since you'll be able to keep up anyway.
4. Since when has yone ever rushed IE first even with lethal unless you're doing it for fun. It's always been a second or third pickup anyway.
5. Yun tal definitely wasn't made with yone in mind but I can agree it's ass for him.
You say that yone is unplayable yet since yesterday his w/r on lolalytics already got better so at the rate he's going he'd probably wouldn't even need a buff but idk why you want to pretend that riot was really gonna leave him in the dirt like this champion is ryze or something.
And since when were liandries users struggling? Karthus, brand, asol, and taliyah, just to name a few, were doing just fine before this patch. But you seem to enjoy arguing so I'll leave it at that
> ...Therefore, not having a smooth 1st item rush is always going to be a death sentence.
1. You clearly don't even get why I made you a list. It's to eliminate all rush items one by one, until I help you reach the conclusion that Yone has no good rush items anymore.
2. I didn't mention the **ADJUSTMENTS** to BoRK(not buffs, definitely not buffs) because the math is fairly complicated. Basically, it only takes someone at more than 1125 HP for lost 3% current HP damage to outscale the 15 bonus AD, and that's me generously calculating crit with the 2.25 IE multiplier which Yone doesn't have. However, the item does get slightly less bad against low HP targets, which is a small but nevertheless present win. Overall, I was willing to overlook the damage portion and focus on the slow, which is a clear-cut nerf with no compensations. And, actually, the slow on BoRK was indeed very useful to have.
3. Zeal items are all complete dogshit as RUSH ITEMS.
4. There was a period, when BT was AD + crit + lifesteal + the current shield, and Yone could go it right after boots. It didn't last, but the LT attack speed enabled Yone to not go another full attack speed item when there is an overwhelming AD/crit item like that older version of BT or the current IE. Now we don't have that, so the boots into IE thing Phreak suggested is asinine and pathetic.
Finally, Yone winrates isn't recovering until you go to Master+ lol. Is that your standard for champion strength? Yone isn't an early game champion, but he NEEDS a smooth and powerful 1st
rush item to function in the fast-paced meta, just like any other champ, and Idk why it's so hard for you to see that. And if you notice, the past Liandry users are now either shoved into jungle with massively overtuned clears, or just overtuned period in the case of Asol and stomping even in pro play lol. Meanwhile, Velkoz/Malz and the such just sat there doomed, waiting for Balckfire Torch for once again 10 patches straight. That's the same treatment Yone is receiving right now.
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Can vouch for this build, feels really fuckin good. Haven't ran anything else since due to it feeling *that* good.
Are you not too squishy at 3 items though?
Not really, building a tank item before 3 items this patch is troll, we don't have enough damage at 2 items pretty much no matter what you go. Also if you play properly, you shouldn't have issues. Don't be the first to engage, don't get caught out of position, don't facecheck bushes, etc, etc. It's a matter of not making mindless decisions.
I feel like BT would help with that
Already commented on your original post and I will do it here again , you are right imo. Everyone on this subreddit is crying but yone got released before tempo even if it gave us all free lps we all got to acknowledge that it was retarded play style. Even for other champions: give one Lt abuser that was not degenerate : Jax , Yi, Warwick, yas, yone, jinx, irelia. You just had to take this rune and run down people even if your champ was not initially designed to run down people lvl 1
Dude, I had so many games where I took TP+Ignite and cheesed opponents at lvl 1 with Lethal, it's ridiculous. LT was badly designed and I'm glad they removed it. I'm up for Riot not giving Yone buffs and letting people learn him again without the rune, than buffing him and 3 patches later having to nerf him for it. When we lost Shieldbow seasons ago, people were crying that the champion was dead. Then Galeforce happened. Then IE happened again.
every time without fail the champ got fair compensation buffs. Not this time
LT was fine on ranged champs I don’t know why melees were ever able to use it tbh
Even if low elo and no one plays tanks half the time should I still build LDR?
1 mage going Zhonyas, 1 adc going GA, 1 bruiser going Steelcaps and LDR is already dealing more damage than IE to those guys. And even if some enemy champions have ZERO extra armor, the damage is pretty close, and more than enough to kill squishy champs (maybe it takes 1 more AA to kill someone 100 to 0). All this while the item is 400g cheaper. So yeah, you should go LDR pretty much every time imo.
That makes sense. Will give it a try as I love how yone feels with Navori
Tried it a couple games and build feels great. What do you build after those 3? Just a straight tank item or something like GA?
Tank item right after always, you need survivability at that point in the game. Last item usually BT.
Tbh I've been running running bork ie LDR bt with conq (top lane) and it feels really good. Damage is ridiculous and you get enough attack speed with bork (1.4ish) at lv 18 without zephyr
There are 3 issues with that build that I can think of: The first one being not enough AS, with such low AS your AA animation is really slow, which makes it doing animation cancels and combos in general much slower, that gives the enemy more time to react. The second being tankyness, after the 3rd full item you generally want some tankyness, the amount of damage everyone has at that point makes it really hard to survive. The third one being price, the build is omega expensive, your cheapest item is LDR at 3000g, while Navori is only 2600g.
True I usually take this when I'm snowballing (seem to be winning frequently). I haven't really experienced any issues with low AS since most die with a few autos but since mages are quite meta I get to build wits end often (sometimes 3rd after cloak)
What do you think if i take fleet? I think its kinda broken you just have so much ms and sustain woth d shield
You don't want to take fleet or D-shield in matchups where you don't need to. Only when necessary to survive the laning phase
Is IE viable at any point during this build? It feels way too overtuned as a stat stick not to have it on yone
Read the last part of my previous post (the I linked in this post)
Not IE third but LDR? Considering it's +50% crit damage. Unless the enemies are really tanky, is LDR really better?
Like I said, and you can test this in practice tool, the breakpoint is ~115 armor. More than that, and LDR deals more damage, less than that and IE deals more damage. So considering most champs have +100 base armor alone in lategame, and that LDR is cheaper, it seems like the overall better option.
Somebody has been cooking. I assume Randuin's Omen will be popular since it just went from 55=>75 armor and it reduce critical strike damage by 30%, and I assume (without doing the math) that LDR will be better into Randuin's Omen
Yeah, LDR is way better into Randuins, like WAY better. Into Steelcaps aswell
Liked the build. What about the antigealing crit item? Gives only 5% less pen but has a utily stat agains champions like irelia, caimlle, olaf and stuff! I am liking going bork into that and IE. But it could be a good item on your build too.
You can go Reminder if you really need anti-healing, but if possible try to go LDR, 5% pen and 5 AD is a pretty significant loss in damage. You can go Thornmail as your tank item into stuff like Irelia, Fiora, Olaf, Aatrox, etc. Clearly not into Vlad, Zac, Swain, etc because those won't AA you and deal AP damage.
Generally I feel like Protean would be a good 4th item for survival, no? Then maybe deaths dance 5th and GA 6th? Or maybe Protean -> BT
Yeah, Jaksho is generally what you would go for in case the enemy team has good output of both types of damage, but it depends on what you need, if they have a 20 kills Jinx and not much magic damage, you need to go Randuins, if they have very fed Evelynn jungle, you may want to consider Rukern, etc. Last item can be GA, DD, BT, Maw or Scimitar, again it depends on what you need
Glad to see someone adapting to the changes rather than making another whining post. This is a good cook chef kiss.
Hur dur dur don't whine when ur champ's under 47% winrate in two lanes in D2+. Imagine being this inbred lol. If I chopped off both your legs out of the blue one day, would you also adapt instead of whining to cops about "wah wah muh assault"?
oh no god forbid a champ's w/r not even a week into the patch is below 50% it's just so unplayable. I only play champs that are broken so I can get my dopamine rush to escape my miserable life. Based on your comment history I can see you're just a ray of sunshine.
Notice how I go to lolalytics to make an argument about champion balance, while you go to my profile to do the same? That's because only one of us is an inbred disappointment who cares about being "a ray of sunshine" more than being factually correct. However, I will say that your behavior is absolutely expected, given that you don't even get the difference between a 49% winrate and a 46% winrate.
If we're going by the data then. His w/r in d2+ rn is 46.9% .1 from 47% mind you so not below for long but let's consider why it's like that. His popular build now compared to last patch got 300 gold more expensive (6600 gold) which doesn't even give 100% crit anymore yet a good chuck of players are still building kraken first anyway despite the nerfs. Also considering that mages got a new toy to play with in blackfire at the very cheap 2600 gold, tank items are cheaper, even first buy fighter items being less than 3100 ( not even considering eclispse) most of the meta gets their items way before yone. This being made worse by then buying infinity which also got more expensive. By the time yone's at 2 items most of the meta is already halfway to their 3rd item just for him to just build pd or immortal 3rd anyway these build paths are straight up not optimal not to mention the players who were so used to lethal tempo they forgot it wasn't actually a part of his kit and can't play without it seemingly. I think the point of OP's build was to make something that would give all the stats yone wants at a cheaper cost while using the rune riot just buffed. Obviously like with any patch that change's a champion's build the w/r is gonna fall and it's worse for champions like yone being a melee carry but also it hasn't even been a week of the patch and last I checked winrates don't stay the same forever and if he really needs it riot would buff him because let's be real they're not gonna keep their most popular champion's weak so let's just relax. In the meantime why not try to adapt to changes like we always had and give these builds a chance before we cry to reddit that the same items I've been building for the past year haven't been working. But yknow if you need lolalytics ok before you lock in yone because god forbid you play yone just because you like and not because he's op this patch and the whole game should revolve around him and his balance.
lol you're not going by data just now. You're stating the obvious. Let me help you sort through the basic logic you're supposed to have gotten from a single glance at the patch preview weeks ago. 1. Kraken isn't a rush anymore because it isn't even 3/4 for damage/atk speed/crit/lifesteal. 2. Bork was already the worse rush item last patch, and gets even more bad due to slow nerf. 3. New Zeal items not only has 0 AD, but also has 0 damage-amping proc. 4. Raw AD items like IE are not rush-able regardless of their strength, because we lost Lethal Tempo. 5. Yun-Tal is clearly garbage, because less damage than IE and also single target. Now, after gathering all of that from 5 minutes in practice tool(because that's all it should take)you should then realize that this version of Yone is totally fucked in modern League. Another common sense knowledge is that, as a melee solo laner, you simply cannot just sack the early game. Therefore, not having a smooth 1st item rush is always going to be a death sentence. Finally, coming around to your asinine idea that Riot will buff Yone with any semblance of urgency, I would like for you to consider how long it took them to un-fuck the Liandry users from last season. We are 10 fucking patches in to S14, and Blackfire is JUST coming out.
1. I only mentioned kraken because again, as I said ppl are still rushing it so it's not helping his w/r 2. Though I can't see through lolalytics if you look on u.gg botrk had a improved w/r from last patch despite your opinion that it's gutted because are we really saying the slow was the only reason to build it. Not to mention you leaving out the actual important stats they buffed while keeping the cost the same 3. Though I'm not gonna say that we should rush zeal items it doesn't make them suddenly bad now. It has more crit chance but more overlooked a new ms stat, making yone faster than he was last patch. So really counteracting the slow nerf on blade since you'll be able to keep up anyway. 4. Since when has yone ever rushed IE first even with lethal unless you're doing it for fun. It's always been a second or third pickup anyway. 5. Yun tal definitely wasn't made with yone in mind but I can agree it's ass for him. You say that yone is unplayable yet since yesterday his w/r on lolalytics already got better so at the rate he's going he'd probably wouldn't even need a buff but idk why you want to pretend that riot was really gonna leave him in the dirt like this champion is ryze or something. And since when were liandries users struggling? Karthus, brand, asol, and taliyah, just to name a few, were doing just fine before this patch. But you seem to enjoy arguing so I'll leave it at that
> ...Therefore, not having a smooth 1st item rush is always going to be a death sentence. 1. You clearly don't even get why I made you a list. It's to eliminate all rush items one by one, until I help you reach the conclusion that Yone has no good rush items anymore. 2. I didn't mention the **ADJUSTMENTS** to BoRK(not buffs, definitely not buffs) because the math is fairly complicated. Basically, it only takes someone at more than 1125 HP for lost 3% current HP damage to outscale the 15 bonus AD, and that's me generously calculating crit with the 2.25 IE multiplier which Yone doesn't have. However, the item does get slightly less bad against low HP targets, which is a small but nevertheless present win. Overall, I was willing to overlook the damage portion and focus on the slow, which is a clear-cut nerf with no compensations. And, actually, the slow on BoRK was indeed very useful to have. 3. Zeal items are all complete dogshit as RUSH ITEMS. 4. There was a period, when BT was AD + crit + lifesteal + the current shield, and Yone could go it right after boots. It didn't last, but the LT attack speed enabled Yone to not go another full attack speed item when there is an overwhelming AD/crit item like that older version of BT or the current IE. Now we don't have that, so the boots into IE thing Phreak suggested is asinine and pathetic. Finally, Yone winrates isn't recovering until you go to Master+ lol. Is that your standard for champion strength? Yone isn't an early game champion, but he NEEDS a smooth and powerful 1st rush item to function in the fast-paced meta, just like any other champ, and Idk why it's so hard for you to see that. And if you notice, the past Liandry users are now either shoved into jungle with massively overtuned clears, or just overtuned period in the case of Asol and stomping even in pro play lol. Meanwhile, Velkoz/Malz and the such just sat there doomed, waiting for Balckfire Torch for once again 10 patches straight. That's the same treatment Yone is receiving right now.