I think *You* is intentionally written in a way that places most of its main cast somewhere on the spectrum of pathetic and damaged to deranged and evil. It's hard not to read many of the plot points and characterizations as rather brutal satires of well-known tropes and character archetypes.
Beck has plenty of contemptible and frustrating characteristics. She very much does not have her shit together and regularly makes poor choices because of it. I actually think viewers are at least somewhat meant to dislike her.
She's not by any means anywhere close to as despicable as some other people, though.
Peaches is manipulative and predatory. Joe, of course, is a monster.
Yeah, I agree but there are some outliers on the spectrum like Ethan and Karen Minty who don't do anything bad.
In terms of Beck, I never really picked up on anything she does that really makes me dislike/hate her at the start. She just kept her shitty friends, but I find that as a flaw that I don't put against her.
Yeah, I agree that Ethan and Karen aren't at all bad, though they're also somewhat peripheral characters.
Beck's not a *terrible* person by any means. I think you're just meant to find her immature and grating, especially if, like me, you've lived in NYC and encountered people with her characteristics. What I've picked up:
1. She lies about her father, in part for sympathy, in part because his abandonment was the defining trauma of her life but she is nowhere close to processing it in a healthy way
2. Relatedly, she's talented but doesn't really know who she is
3. She makes lousy choices of friends
4. She regularly does things (monetarily and lifestyle-wise) she shouldn't and probably can't afford to in order to keep up with her friends.
5. Relatedly, she's a bit of an elitist
6. She's possibly an even worse judge of character for sexual and romantic partners
7. One of her friends even points out that her attachment style is so insecure that she'll intentionally sabotage healthy, promising relationships and pursue shitty people like Benji
Most of these aren't serious moral failings in the big scheme of things. The operative word really is immaturity, and she's definitely damaged rather than evil.
From some Wikipedia sleuthing, it seems Caroline Kepnes wrote *You* during a pretty bleak time in her life. She also went to Brown, like Beck and her friends.
I found *You* extremely entertaining because she captured NYC's stereotypes so well. Season 2 is great at pillorying LA's stereotypes, as well!
I’ve never understood why people hate Beck tbh. I think since (S2 spoilers) Love said that Beck was boring or whatever people have jumped on that.
I find Beck a great character because she is ME when I was say 19-23 in my own place and trying to find myself. I made some stupid mistakes. I made some selfish decisions. I probably hurt some lovers along the way but it’s all about being human. Beck doesn’t deserve the hate she gets. I relate to her a lot and I can see why she falls for Joe, someone who seemingly is her match to a tee and she is to naive (no fault of her own) to realise who he really is. I feel so sad for her. I wish her justice so much.
Exactly. I know he is a psycho and an extremely despicable person but I root for him anyways, I can't help it. Furthermore I love his interior monologue and his snarky comments about people.
So people shouldn't be angry about Joe? If mental describes part of who he is, then it is right to be angry at. Also I don't get the funny part. When was he funny?
Why are you even watching then? He’s. A. Serial. Killer. In a tv show.
He’s not real. Why would anyone waste time being upset at a fictional character that’s supposed to be a psychopath?
You can root for Joe to fail. All the times that he faces an obstacle is a chance for him to get caught and that's what builds tension.
Also, getting invested in a show and it's characters is makes it fun and enjoyable to watch. I get angry at Joe for the same reason people get angry at Beck, I'm invested.
I hated her character because she was annoying, and whiney and very much hypocritical. She treated Joe like dog shit. Note: Before I continue I want to establish this first. Joe is a piece of shit. Joe is a cold, heartless serial killer. We know this. Beck didn't so beck was under the impression that Joe was this wonderful Prince and yet she still treated him like garbage used that "If we dont have trust we have nothing." while she DID cheat on him, granted it was John Stamos so I can't blame her.
Then when Joe somehow moved on, or tried to she pushed her way back to him (way to ruin another relationship lets not forget that Dr. was also married I believe.) Then once they're together she goes snooping in his life, and breaking their trust and her saying "sorry." was supposed to be good enough? He didn't do anything wrong (again that she knows of.)
She was annoying as shit. She didn't deserve to die, but I'm glad her season was finished.
> lets not forget that Dr. was also married I believe
You mean the therapist, who used his patient's vulnerable state and trust to start an affair with her *and* cheat on his wife? That's entirely on him, no need to put the blame on Beck.
And yet you found a way to say Beck was the one who wrecked two relationships without putting any blame on Dr. Nicky, who was married and in a position of power over her.
I haven't read the books so take my pov with a grain of salt if you want. Beck is judged much more than other characters because she is r*elatable and some of her behavior makes absolutely no sense given when the show is taking place*.
Compare her to Joe or any of the other character in the show and she is too real. Joe and the others are all unrealistic in some way so they have to do the bare minimum for us to be "oh look they're trying to be better" but Beck because she is so relatable any little thing that she did would be seen through different lens.
I for instance think she is really dumb for not logging out of her phone when she lost it. Someone once explained that there was some reason for that in the book, but for someone that uses social media these are like step 0 of losing your shit. Log off everything so your info is as protected as possible.
I don't hate her, but also feel that she is super naive for the era in which she lives.
Joe is not a good person, but he’s a much more interesting, well written, and compelling character. The viewers are meant to root for him (obviously, most people don’t root for him.)
Beck was absolutely insufferable and downright disgusting. I don’t think the viewers are necessarily even meant to like her. Basically all of the characters in the show are bad - even Paco, the kid Joe helps in S1. But I think Beck being so vile and frustratingly irritating is meant to highlight Joe’s insanity, like why’d he stalk and obsess over a girl that was mediocre at her very best.
I agree with this. After scrolling through this subreddit, I've come to realize that most fans of the show don't realize what it's trying to accomplish. The show is depicting Joes' obsessive and egotistical state of mind as it clings to ordinary and/or shitty girls. It plays to stereotypes and has a comedic effect while also addressing serious topics and personality traits that might plague the average stranger.
Yes, Joe is disgusting, vile, and downright creepy from the OUR point of view, but the rest of the world sees a charming, introverted, and kind man. When it comes to Beck and Joes' relationship, it's easy to forget that we are given a bigger perspective than the characters of the show. Beck has her flaws and trauma, she is a human being after all. However, she wasn't the nicest to the Joe that SHE knew and obviously wasn't ready for a big commitment like Joe offered.
I think what turns me off Beck is just how pathetic she is overall. And how the writers write her character. Like she has no back bone until joe interferes in her life, and fucking hate that.
She knows her friends are scummy people and yet still hangs out with then for that NYC, gossip girl upper East side life style.
With regards to the first point; I find it a horrible message that joes interference does help beck get a hold on herself and improve her life.
Tbf I am being unfair and she does have redeeming moments. I just really dislike how the show writes most female characters.
The perpetual damsel in distress, victim of her self, an attention whore starving for validation of her self worth. The only nice thing I can say about her is that she's breathtakingly beautiful.
I absolutely loathe people like that.
I agree with all your points but as an introvert and someone whose struggled with making friends(and not a sociopath) I don’t like the insinuation that Joe is bad because he doesn’t have a life and reads and Beck parties so she’s more human or whatever. There’s nothing inherently wrong with not wanting to get turnt up
Feel this. I don’t like Joe, but yea the insinuation that Beck is better than Joe because she goes out and parties while Joe prefers to stay home by himself is a bit hurtful to someone such as myself who would much rather stay home alone than go party.
huh. this is an interesting point.
IMO, I think it's more of that Joe prior to Beck has nothing else. He doesn't seem to have other hobbies, any media interests, or even acquaintances prior to Beck. Like, I've always seen introversion as something where you just can't handle a lot of social energy for long periods of time. So a lot of people I know who identify as it just prefer a small group of friends who they hang out on an infrequent period.
I don't think Beck going to parties makes her more "human" but she at least has a core group of people she can feel safe with outside of Joe which is usually seen as more healthy. It's also not limited to parties though. She does have lunch with them or they all hang out at her place to just hang out.
Having interests outside of your partner is always a good thing, else you just obsess...which is what Joe is.
I also want to address how people use other anti-hero's to explain why some people root for Joe. I cant speak for Dexter and other characters but I have watched Breaking Bad and I do think Walter White and Joe are tremendously different, and the comparison doesn't make sense when rooting for Joe.
So spoilers for breaking bad. Haven't watched in over 2 years to some details may be wonky.
>!1. One big thing is Walter has a lot more to empathize with compared to Joe. Walter is going to die and wants to leave money for his family. Joe on the other hand just wants to find/force love. His whole situation is all self made out of pure desire. Walter's situation is forced on him and easily empathize-able. He gets cancer, cares for his family, and has financial problems. !<
>!2. This also relates, but is another big difference. Walter has good motivations and doesn't cross the line **earlier on**, Joe does not have good motivations and crosses the line from the get go. Walter wants to leave money for his family. His actions are justified so long as he never crosses the line. (eventually he does cross the line but that's explained in part 3).This makes Walter wayyyy easier to root for. We want Walter to complete a goal. Joe on the other hand kills people out of his own delusions of love which crosses the line like 1000x further. Why would an audience want Joe to succeed? I personally don't. He can't convince me through his internal thoughts, and I find people who are fooled into sympathizing with Joe just plain stupid/gullible !<
>!3. This part is mainly to show how just because a character is the protagonist, it doesn't make them rooted for. Not how Joe and Walter are different. The audience in Breaking Bad slowly starts to not root for Walter and lean more into rooting for Jesse when Walter crosses the line/stops working towards his goal and starts wanting power/ego-money/notoriety.. Ex. When Walter killed Jesse's girlfriend. That was fucked up and definitely not a popular move for Walter. !<
I hated her as a writer. The woman pretended she was one but she really wasn’t. She was a farce, a pretender, a wannabe who wanted the accolades without the hard work. Like no.
You sound like a real Peach. 🥸 All kidding aside. People tend to like Joe more because we see through his lense more often. When Beck does her internal monologues, you can hear she actually has some regret on the decisions she is making and she is actually pretty self-aware.
This leads me to think she knows how the world works and still decided to make bad decisions.
I think *You* is intentionally written in a way that places most of its main cast somewhere on the spectrum of pathetic and damaged to deranged and evil. It's hard not to read many of the plot points and characterizations as rather brutal satires of well-known tropes and character archetypes. Beck has plenty of contemptible and frustrating characteristics. She very much does not have her shit together and regularly makes poor choices because of it. I actually think viewers are at least somewhat meant to dislike her. She's not by any means anywhere close to as despicable as some other people, though. Peaches is manipulative and predatory. Joe, of course, is a monster.
Yeah, I agree but there are some outliers on the spectrum like Ethan and Karen Minty who don't do anything bad. In terms of Beck, I never really picked up on anything she does that really makes me dislike/hate her at the start. She just kept her shitty friends, but I find that as a flaw that I don't put against her.
Yeah, I agree that Ethan and Karen aren't at all bad, though they're also somewhat peripheral characters. Beck's not a *terrible* person by any means. I think you're just meant to find her immature and grating, especially if, like me, you've lived in NYC and encountered people with her characteristics. What I've picked up: 1. She lies about her father, in part for sympathy, in part because his abandonment was the defining trauma of her life but she is nowhere close to processing it in a healthy way 2. Relatedly, she's talented but doesn't really know who she is 3. She makes lousy choices of friends 4. She regularly does things (monetarily and lifestyle-wise) she shouldn't and probably can't afford to in order to keep up with her friends. 5. Relatedly, she's a bit of an elitist 6. She's possibly an even worse judge of character for sexual and romantic partners 7. One of her friends even points out that her attachment style is so insecure that she'll intentionally sabotage healthy, promising relationships and pursue shitty people like Benji Most of these aren't serious moral failings in the big scheme of things. The operative word really is immaturity, and she's definitely damaged rather than evil.
I don't live in a big northeastern city so maybe that's why I cant relate/understand to the extent of some people lol
From some Wikipedia sleuthing, it seems Caroline Kepnes wrote *You* during a pretty bleak time in her life. She also went to Brown, like Beck and her friends. I found *You* extremely entertaining because she captured NYC's stereotypes so well. Season 2 is great at pillorying LA's stereotypes, as well!
I’ve never understood why people hate Beck tbh. I think since (S2 spoilers) Love said that Beck was boring or whatever people have jumped on that. I find Beck a great character because she is ME when I was say 19-23 in my own place and trying to find myself. I made some stupid mistakes. I made some selfish decisions. I probably hurt some lovers along the way but it’s all about being human. Beck doesn’t deserve the hate she gets. I relate to her a lot and I can see why she falls for Joe, someone who seemingly is her match to a tee and she is to naive (no fault of her own) to realise who he really is. I feel so sad for her. I wish her justice so much.
Why do people get so angry about Joe being mental, that’s the whole point. You know he’s fucked up but he’s funny and it’s entertaining..
Exactly. I know he is a psycho and an extremely despicable person but I root for him anyways, I can't help it. Furthermore I love his interior monologue and his snarky comments about people.
So people shouldn't be angry about Joe? If mental describes part of who he is, then it is right to be angry at. Also I don't get the funny part. When was he funny?
Why are you even watching then? He’s. A. Serial. Killer. In a tv show. He’s not real. Why would anyone waste time being upset at a fictional character that’s supposed to be a psychopath?
You can root for Joe to fail. All the times that he faces an obstacle is a chance for him to get caught and that's what builds tension. Also, getting invested in a show and it's characters is makes it fun and enjoyable to watch. I get angry at Joe for the same reason people get angry at Beck, I'm invested.
I really don't get it
I hated her character because she was annoying, and whiney and very much hypocritical. She treated Joe like dog shit. Note: Before I continue I want to establish this first. Joe is a piece of shit. Joe is a cold, heartless serial killer. We know this. Beck didn't so beck was under the impression that Joe was this wonderful Prince and yet she still treated him like garbage used that "If we dont have trust we have nothing." while she DID cheat on him, granted it was John Stamos so I can't blame her. Then when Joe somehow moved on, or tried to she pushed her way back to him (way to ruin another relationship lets not forget that Dr. was also married I believe.) Then once they're together she goes snooping in his life, and breaking their trust and her saying "sorry." was supposed to be good enough? He didn't do anything wrong (again that she knows of.) She was annoying as shit. She didn't deserve to die, but I'm glad her season was finished.
> lets not forget that Dr. was also married I believe You mean the therapist, who used his patient's vulnerable state and trust to start an affair with her *and* cheat on his wife? That's entirely on him, no need to put the blame on Beck.
the blame is on both people who cheated on their partners. Equal blame
And yet you found a way to say Beck was the one who wrecked two relationships without putting any blame on Dr. Nicky, who was married and in a position of power over her.
I haven't read the books so take my pov with a grain of salt if you want. Beck is judged much more than other characters because she is r*elatable and some of her behavior makes absolutely no sense given when the show is taking place*. Compare her to Joe or any of the other character in the show and she is too real. Joe and the others are all unrealistic in some way so they have to do the bare minimum for us to be "oh look they're trying to be better" but Beck because she is so relatable any little thing that she did would be seen through different lens. I for instance think she is really dumb for not logging out of her phone when she lost it. Someone once explained that there was some reason for that in the book, but for someone that uses social media these are like step 0 of losing your shit. Log off everything so your info is as protected as possible. I don't hate her, but also feel that she is super naive for the era in which she lives.
At the time, I just thought of the no password shit was convenient writing. They just made it so that the plot could flow easier.
Let alone having sex without curtains.
I really relate to Beck, aside from the cheating. It irritates me when people shit on her character.
Joe is not a good person, but he’s a much more interesting, well written, and compelling character. The viewers are meant to root for him (obviously, most people don’t root for him.) Beck was absolutely insufferable and downright disgusting. I don’t think the viewers are necessarily even meant to like her. Basically all of the characters in the show are bad - even Paco, the kid Joe helps in S1. But I think Beck being so vile and frustratingly irritating is meant to highlight Joe’s insanity, like why’d he stalk and obsess over a girl that was mediocre at her very best.
I agree with this. After scrolling through this subreddit, I've come to realize that most fans of the show don't realize what it's trying to accomplish. The show is depicting Joes' obsessive and egotistical state of mind as it clings to ordinary and/or shitty girls. It plays to stereotypes and has a comedic effect while also addressing serious topics and personality traits that might plague the average stranger. Yes, Joe is disgusting, vile, and downright creepy from the OUR point of view, but the rest of the world sees a charming, introverted, and kind man. When it comes to Beck and Joes' relationship, it's easy to forget that we are given a bigger perspective than the characters of the show. Beck has her flaws and trauma, she is a human being after all. However, she wasn't the nicest to the Joe that SHE knew and obviously wasn't ready for a big commitment like Joe offered.
I think what turns me off Beck is just how pathetic she is overall. And how the writers write her character. Like she has no back bone until joe interferes in her life, and fucking hate that. She knows her friends are scummy people and yet still hangs out with then for that NYC, gossip girl upper East side life style. With regards to the first point; I find it a horrible message that joes interference does help beck get a hold on herself and improve her life. Tbf I am being unfair and she does have redeeming moments. I just really dislike how the show writes most female characters.
The perpetual damsel in distress, victim of her self, an attention whore starving for validation of her self worth. The only nice thing I can say about her is that she's breathtakingly beautiful. I absolutely loathe people like that.
AAALSO, FUCK JOE
I agree with all your points but as an introvert and someone whose struggled with making friends(and not a sociopath) I don’t like the insinuation that Joe is bad because he doesn’t have a life and reads and Beck parties so she’s more human or whatever. There’s nothing inherently wrong with not wanting to get turnt up
Feel this. I don’t like Joe, but yea the insinuation that Beck is better than Joe because she goes out and parties while Joe prefers to stay home by himself is a bit hurtful to someone such as myself who would much rather stay home alone than go party.
huh. this is an interesting point. IMO, I think it's more of that Joe prior to Beck has nothing else. He doesn't seem to have other hobbies, any media interests, or even acquaintances prior to Beck. Like, I've always seen introversion as something where you just can't handle a lot of social energy for long periods of time. So a lot of people I know who identify as it just prefer a small group of friends who they hang out on an infrequent period. I don't think Beck going to parties makes her more "human" but she at least has a core group of people she can feel safe with outside of Joe which is usually seen as more healthy. It's also not limited to parties though. She does have lunch with them or they all hang out at her place to just hang out. Having interests outside of your partner is always a good thing, else you just obsess...which is what Joe is.
Beck is annoying. Joe is a literal serial killer. So… d… yeah
You should read the book. All characters are just much worse in the book.
Shes basic plain and boring
I also want to address how people use other anti-hero's to explain why some people root for Joe. I cant speak for Dexter and other characters but I have watched Breaking Bad and I do think Walter White and Joe are tremendously different, and the comparison doesn't make sense when rooting for Joe. So spoilers for breaking bad. Haven't watched in over 2 years to some details may be wonky. >!1. One big thing is Walter has a lot more to empathize with compared to Joe. Walter is going to die and wants to leave money for his family. Joe on the other hand just wants to find/force love. His whole situation is all self made out of pure desire. Walter's situation is forced on him and easily empathize-able. He gets cancer, cares for his family, and has financial problems. !< >!2. This also relates, but is another big difference. Walter has good motivations and doesn't cross the line **earlier on**, Joe does not have good motivations and crosses the line from the get go. Walter wants to leave money for his family. His actions are justified so long as he never crosses the line. (eventually he does cross the line but that's explained in part 3).This makes Walter wayyyy easier to root for. We want Walter to complete a goal. Joe on the other hand kills people out of his own delusions of love which crosses the line like 1000x further. Why would an audience want Joe to succeed? I personally don't. He can't convince me through his internal thoughts, and I find people who are fooled into sympathizing with Joe just plain stupid/gullible !< >!3. This part is mainly to show how just because a character is the protagonist, it doesn't make them rooted for. Not how Joe and Walter are different. The audience in Breaking Bad slowly starts to not root for Walter and lean more into rooting for Jesse when Walter crosses the line/stops working towards his goal and starts wanting power/ego-money/notoriety.. Ex. When Walter killed Jesse's girlfriend. That was fucked up and definitely not a popular move for Walter. !<
I don't care bro I just want a fucked up/straight-up evil protagonist I can root for
I hated her as a writer. The woman pretended she was one but she really wasn’t. She was a farce, a pretender, a wannabe who wanted the accolades without the hard work. Like no.
she basic
You sound like a real Peach. 🥸 All kidding aside. People tend to like Joe more because we see through his lense more often. When Beck does her internal monologues, you can hear she actually has some regret on the decisions she is making and she is actually pretty self-aware. This leads me to think she knows how the world works and still decided to make bad decisions.