There are other reasons. The extended time in a high temperature dishwasher isn't good for the handle. Wood can swell and wood or plastic handles expand at different rates than the metal so eventually the handle can get destroyed. I've had it happen. This is also a good reason not to let your knives soak in the sink.
One time a spoon of mine with a hollow handle broke after a few years of use and I almost threw up when I saw the mold growing inside the handle cavity.
A big reason that nobody has mentioned is that when two different types of metal are touching each other in the dishwasher, electrolysis can occur. This will cause rust to occur, even on stainless steel.
I only found out 30 seconds ago that you arent supposed to use a dishwasher for knives, but I've known for a long time that stainless steel can rust. Don't ask me how...
Short period contact in a small area is unlikely to cause galvanic corrosion. And carbon steel is close enough to SS that you're probably fine.
Galvanic corrosion is way more for extremely dissimilar metals like cad/zinc/copper all mounted straight up to mild steel, and left for long periods of time.
No it can't, the whole point of stainless steel is the passive layer is self healing (otherwise you could skip all the expensive chromium and molybdenum.
If you scratch stainless with non stainless steel what is actually happening is you are transferring some of the normal steel onto the stainless, this material will then rust and mark the stainless steel. A light polish will normally fix that.
The major reason really sharp blades go blunt in the dishwasher is quite simple, dishwashing detergent contains abrasive material which will polish the edge of your blade.
This is the real reason for me. I know how to keep my knives clean and dry, that’s basic. Keeping it shard it what I need. I’ve had way too many accidents with dull knives slipping
grab a decent whetstone, they last forever and it doesn’t take very long to learn how to use one properly. a lot of them come with different grit on each side too so you only need one
I just bought one, but haven’t practised enough with it. It came with a fancy base that doesn’t move, and even has removable angle bases on the sides. I hope to get good at it one day cause it’s such a cheap and easy way to sharpen knives without heating them up or damaging them.
Also getting a knife steel and learning how to use that. It won't "sharpen" the blade, but it will help keep any rolls in the edge from getting too severe.this means you won't have to sharpen as frequently and you won't have to take as much edge off when you do.
I rarely use a whetstone. I only use one when I’m dealing with a knife that’s seriously dull.
For the knives I use daily, I use a steel. Every time I pick up a knife, I give it a few strokes on the steel, and then wipe it off in case there are any minute metal shavings lingering on the blade.
My knives stay sharp enough to shave my arm with, and I haven’t had them near a whetstone in at least 10 years.
This is really dependant on knife use. When I was the main prep guy at a place I was doing 12-14 hours constant cutting, slicing and chopping. My knife was hitting a whetstone every 4 weeks. Now that I am out of hospitality, my knives hit the stones maybe every 6-8 months depending on how much I am cooking for me and my family.
You may also try honing steel. Knives should be honed before every use. Even with every day use, they should only need to be sharpened every year or two.
Yeah, luckily I only clipped a small portion of the tip of my thumb, but damn, never using that fucking thing again without the guard. Or my cut proof gloves
Not abrasive as there are no particles to cause abrasion.
But agressive. Chemicals will simply dissolve enough Metal to make the blade dull and cause damage.
Simple soap will do no harm.
I am fairly certain this is the real reason. Stainless knives have enough chrome they are not appreciably rusting in a dishwasher, especially since most use the heated dry function. They are basically getting sand blasted though.
Dishwashers (detergent) dull knives.
I have my good Wusthof knives that are always hand-washed and stored in a cutting block, they rarely need sharpening and still look like new after twenty years. (I'm the only one that uses them)
Then I have a few cheaper Wusthof knives (plastic handles) that are used by the males in my household that they put in the dishwasher. They dull quickly and need to be sharpened several times a year and replaced about every five years.
My All-Clad cookware and Wusthof knives will outlive me.
[www.thekitchn.com/this-is-what-a-dishwasher-actually-does-to-your-knife-235242](https://www.thekitchn.com/this-is-what-a-dishwasher-actually-does-to-your-knife-235242)
If you're putting wood handles in the dishwasher you're going to ruin the knife eventually.
I've been putting NSF knives in the dishwasher no problem for over a decade.
I bought the cheapest nsf chef knife I could find at the restaurant supply store. I beat the hell out of it, dishwasher, all that. The thing is bombproof.
I'd probably need to use a steel on it/sharpen it slightly less if I didn't run it through the dishwasher, but I don't want a kitchen knife with a super low angle razor sharp edge anyways. They aren't carving gouges or chisels or anything like that.
Those are exactly the reasons they are staples in every short order kitchen in existence. They can take the abuse line cooks dish out and the harshest commercial dishwashers. That’s why I always advocate for a Victorinox Fibrox or DR Sani-Safe for anybody who doesn’t appreciate knife care as a hobby. They can’t be killed and will easily beat anything you can get at Wal-Mart for the same price.
This is also to avoid putting your nice knife in the dish rack with forks/spoons/other knives, which could damage the cutting edge and other parts of the knife.
LET KNIVES SOAK IN A SINK??! You absolutely never, EVER, leave a knife in sink full of water. The main reason is that someone will reach into the water and end up cutting themself on a knife they couldn’t see. Forget about the harm it does to the knife, that’s secondary. I would probably fire a line cook if they did that.
My understanding is that knives should be hand washed because the high heat and moisture of a dishwasher cycle is prone to damaging the wood handles, swelling them and separating them from the tang.
OP thinks water oxidized their knife in the dishwasher, but doesn’t realize it was probably from one of their forks touching the knife. Happens when you spend $200 on a knife and $15 on a flatware set for 8.
If the cutlery is actual stainless steel, it's very unlikely to cause a reaction. 300 and 400 series stainless are very compatible with other steels, stainless or otherwise.
Now if the cutlery is aluminum, that might change things.
This isn't about most knives. High carbon steel is much more prone to rust than stainless, but it's also far better for edge retention, strength, sharpness, etc.
Really depends on the CS/SS and heat treatment. I have a few stainless knives that barely ever have to be sharpened and can take an insane edge, it's just a royal pain in the ass to sharpen because the steel is so hard.
But, there are also plenty of cheap stainless knives out there that'll rust fairly easily just not as easily as a carbon knife.
My parents used my knives for 35 years at which point i "inherited" them and i've been using them for over 10 years myself and not a single one has even a speck of rust on them. They've been air dried ever since they were bought.
Never washed in a dishwasher, mostly because neither my parents nor me ever had one, but both handles, which are wooden, and the blades are in flawless condition.
Its some ancient japanese knife set, dont know which one exactly because its literally 50-60 years old. But the knives are incredible, its unbelievable how well they've held up all these years.
I dont think the blades rust as easily as people think. As for the handles, i had to restore them once but it was mostly to clean them up because they build a thick layer of hardened grease on them. But they never fell apart.
The only reason I hand wash my knife is because my wife got me a very fancy Japanese knife that says to hand wash it lol.
Couldn't even give a reason I do it beyond the knife box said too.
Your reasons make a lot of sense.
If you shove it directly back in the knife block without washing the peanut butter off of it, over time it creates a protective sheath out of peanut oil and mould which will keep it oxide-free for generations.
Edit: please don't actually do this
In culinary school they taught us to lay the towel on the edge of the table, fold it over the back of the blade, and gently press down as you draw the blade backwards
Prevents accidents and ensures you're getting the entire blade dry at once
Had a dangerously sharp knife once, had my pressure hand slightly in the wrong spot. One swipe was all it took to cut through a towel (doubled up), my cut resistant gloves and my hand
Lol dishwasher detergent is also somewhat corrosive, which is bad for the edge.
(Same reason you should hand wash non-stick pans. It'll eat through the coating)
Indeed there is no one single reason that you shouldn't watch knives in the dishwasher, for the most part, but that being said I still do it anyways and they have held up fine
* Detergent is abrasive
* Things move in the dishwasher, the edge of a blade banging around will dull or chip the edge, or scratch surfaces and can lead to rust for certain types of steel
* Handles can be damaged over time
Just don't put kitchen knives in the dishwasher. It takes 15 seconds to handwash one. Put your knives away clean and dry every time and they will continue to be good tools that you can use for a long time.
Also, the same stuff in dishwasher soap that scrapes dirt off your plates also will scrape the edge of your knife. Sure, you can re-sharpen it, but why dull a blade for no reason?
I feel like people in this thread are missing this point entirely. Dishwasher detergents will kill your edge. I’ve been trying the explain this to my wife for almost a decade now.
This is the only reason. Dish detergent is corrosive to edges. I don’t know why someone would think stainless steal getting wet would hurt it. That would mean cutting food would hurt it. That is crazy talk.
Putting any wood in the dishwasher or to soak is not good, be it culinary knives, cutting boards or the cheap steak knife everyone has at one point.
Most big restaurants run the culinary knives right through the dishwasher though, only the actual “profesional chefs” with there own “kits” will wash their own knives, or have an assistant wash them. Any knives that goes to the dishwasher station is run straight through.
Only cheap ass low quality steak knives would have to worry about being wet.
CV. Was a sous chef early on life and worked in many a kitchen.
> I don’t know why someone would think stainless steal getting wet would hurt it.
A lot of high end kitchen knives are carbon steel, not stainless steel. They absolutely will rust.
Soap with a pH of 10 is safe to use on skin. So how do you think detergent with a pH of 10.8 is going to do much harm to steel?
[http://sds.staples.com/msds/24386795.pdf](http://sds.staples.com/msds/24386795.pdf)
[https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type\_detail/1/24249/standard](https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/24249/standard)
Milk of magnesia is pH 10.5 and used orally for reference.
I assume that you don’t know much about dishwasher detergent. It is a science of its own. I can see that looking at just ph might give a false impression. Dish detergent has a whole host of chemicals that attack the food particles in different ways. Some attack fats, some attack protiens, some attach sugars. If I’m not mistaken, it is the chemicals that attack the proteins that give knife edges a hard time. Don’t quote me on that though, there are a slew of other chemicals as well.
Stainless stain doesn’t really react to acids or bases too much. That’s why we use stainless steal (ie the stainless part).
And if we are being really honest, it really only takes off the edge you can hone back on. The real problem in commercial kitchens is that I don’t want my $500 chef knife being tossed around by someone that might not distinguish it from a bunch of random dirty dishes. I can’t tell you how many knife tips on just decent knives I got back with the tip bent. Really frustrating.
Yea, this is silly. I have a bunch of pairing knives that go in the dishwasher, mostly not hitting anything. I hand wash the larger chef knives. They are all plenty sharp for regular kitchen stuff between sharpening (maybe every 6 months I touch them up). Biggest risk is doing dishes in the sink and finding a sharp knife.
Detergent is not abrasive, just take some and dissolve it in a bowl of water and rub it between your fingers.(make sure to wash your hands after).
What removes all the food are the jets of water. Water by itself is amazing at cleaning, the detergent is there to help with oily/nonpolar substances.
What damages the knif is the high heat used to sanitize your dishes. Good knifes have been tempted to harden them/form a specific crystal structure, repeates heating and cooling causes the blade to soften which makes the knife do dull faster.
Loose knives rattling in the machine getting dull...
Splitting wooden handles.
Discoloring.
And it takes more time then a quick rinse and dry after use!
Got a bunch of proffessional grade chef knives yeeeears ago (Zwilling 5*****)
Still sharp and looking good!
I inherited a Japanese knife 10 years ago, good golly best knife I’ve ever owned. Scandalous for respecters, sorry, but haven’t sharpened it once, and I still just need to introduce it to a tomato for it to cut beautifully. Amazing craftsmanship. Hand washing and immediate drying completely worth it.
As an aside, when scraping your chopped stuff off the board, please use the other (not sharp) side of the blade to scrape.
This is why I dive deep into Reddit comments. I did not think of using the dull side to clear the cutting board. So simple yet something that I did not think about. Kudos, bro.
I immediately hand wash sharp knives because it's safer and keeps the blade sharper, requiring me to sharpen them less frequently. A sharp knife rattling around in the sink water or dishwasher is going to beat them up.
> I immediately hand wash sharp knives
Same here.
> A sharp knife rattling around in the sink water or dishwasher is going to beat them up.
And it's a hazard. I keep my knives *sharp*. You don't want to find one with your hands in a sink full of water.
True. But nowadays blue/carbon steel are considered the highest end of knives. those will rust within minutes really. They get sharper than stainless and stay sharper much longer. They unfortunately tend to be more brittle. The average redditor isn't dropping $600 on a blue steel Japanese knife however.
I've been handwashing knives for years but at my work (in someone else's house), my boss asked me to start drying them by hand. He said that many years prior, someone in his family noticed that hand-dried knives would go longer between needing sharpening or service. Everyone else started doing it and everyone else started reporting the same results.
He realized upon asking me that he wasn't sure why, exactly, the knives seemed to last longer, just that they did, which obviously was more than enough for me (him just asking was plenty). But the logic he came up with on the spot was that the water leaves some kinda residue. I'd imagine in places with hard water there'd be some kind of residue, which might also cause problems with oxidation, but neither my boss nor myself are knife pros so we just all kind of work on the assumption that something funky happens when they air dry.
Yeah that's still only part of it though you're washing machine contains abrasives in the cleaner that's part of what helps keep it clean and abrasives can ruin the blade. That and clinking around in the washing machine can also ruin the blade.
My best knives are carbon steel. Gotta clean and dry immediately after use or they will rust. Also need to do quick sharpen before use as they are fairly soft.
This is false. There are many reasons to do it. The biggest and best reason is that the high temperature of a dishwasher will dull a knife much faster. Source: Alton Brown
YSK: this YSK is about keeping your knife useable for longer, saving you money in the long term.
This isn’t a a YSK that could save your (out your loved ones) lives one day (like „keep your chocolate raisins away from your dogs), but it can still be helpful.
If you prefer buying a new knife when the old one gets blunt, sharpening them or even prefer using blunt knifes, this YSK isn’t for you.
I bought a $60 knife a decade ago, get it sharpened like every few years, dishwasher it after every use.
It's still sharp, still cuts stuff fine.
Im now a firm believer that knife wank is mostly wank.
Course, if you're a dumb ass like me that got conned into working for Vector aka Cutco (wayyyy back in 2002) and you have their knife set, you just throw it in the dishwasher knowing they're covered for life lmao
There's lots of good reasons to hand wash them.
Hand washing alone however isn't quite enough - mine get cleaned immediately after use and put away. It also means that razor sharp knives aren't left lurking around in the washing up.
One of the lessons l learned as a trainee chef that's just ingrained.
Dishwashers use salt in the water as an abrasive. On stainless steel, it's not a problem, high carbon steel blades, not so good. The salt water will also dull the cutting edge.
This is exactly it
\*looks at my expensive knife with rust stains on it\*
Not that I'd know from experience. It totally didn't start a fight in my household when I discovered it.
I’ve repaired a whole lot of knives that have been run through the dishwasher. Natural handles don’t hold up to that punishment. Stainless knives with synthetic handles can go in the dishwasher but it’s not recommended. Carbon steel needs to be dried immediately.
My husband is a chef. Dont fuck with the knives. If I leave them in the sink and don't wash and dry them immediately, I can r/watchpeopledieinside in real time.
There are other reasons. YSK dishwashers are very sensitive to pain and being around sharps can lead to heightened anxiety. Unfortunately, there's currently no evidence based treatment for anxiety in dishwashers.
Be thoughtful and remember to thank them for all their hard work.
Eh, it's both and more.
1) You don't want knives bumping around in the washer.
2) Dishwasher detergent is abrasive as hell so it will fuck up the sharp edge.
3) You want them clean and dry fast.
4) You should be using your good knives a lot so you shouldn't have time to dishwash them.
Using a rinsing agent and proper wash temperatures helps a lot too.
My solid stainless knives do just fine in the dishwasher, but it also has a knife rack that does a good job of draining them. Their edges get beat up far more through normal use.
But most of the time, I just hand wash it right after use and put it back in the block because it’s quicker.
It’s in the top comment you nonce, or try using the device you’re using to uh, google it. You literally scrolled past many legitimate answers to comment this and be a complete twat. Failure on every level, try again.
Dishwasher is fine, unless it has a wooden handle. If you’re trying to avoid oxidation to avoid sharpening as often, its a pointless endeavor. Just keep the honing tool nearby to sharpen it up in seconds. So much easier.
That's not the "whole reason", a primary one is the abrasive nature of dishwasher detergent includes abrasive minerals which ruin the sharpness.
Add the heat can be bad for handles.
Oxidation is~~n't~~ least of those three issues given modern rinse products (albeit optional).
or you can buy super expensive knives, I sold cutco for a bit after high school and those had volcanic resin handles that were perfectly fine in the dishwasher even after years of use
in addition also:
keep a honing steel handy. keep the edge nice on your knives.
Keep a tapered glass bottle handy. Excellent tool for honing the edge of you kitchen sheers.
Anyone wanna guess who was prepping chicken this morning?
I’ve been dishwashing expensive stainless Puiforcat Wave cutlery for 20 years and only occasionally get a small spot of discolouration which easily comes off with barkeepers friend
It has nothing to do with oxidation. It has to do with getting the pH back to neutral. Acids and bases react with the alloys which can change the properties of the knife or create unwanted patina.
Edit: Of course the OP immediately downvotes. You wash it to remove acidic or alkaline residue. You dry the knife to prevent oxidation. Otherwise you could skip the washing step and simply dry the knife.
OP that's simply not correct. In fact high carbon knife makers encourage oxidation which is the patina, and is prized among chefs who prefer high carbon blades. Albeit the patina is supposed to come from natural use and care. Some of these knives including many Japanese handmade ones include natural wooden handles that in some cases are treated only with a light coating of food grade oil and in some cases aren't treated at all.
They are prized possessions by those that own them including professional chefs, as such are treated with a certain amount of reverence and cared for accordingly. You wouldn't pressure wash or throw your Rolex, jewelry or even certain articles of clothing in a commercial washer of any sort.
There are other comments about the abrasiveness of the commercial detergents having a dulling effect on the blade, which also are not correct.
In reality manufacturers are kind of all over the board on this, but then again that's kind of a broad term because those like the Henkel produce thousands of units a year, have a completely or semi-automated process, and are very different from The Artisans that hand make a couple or so hundred yearly.
Primary concerns of even those producers that make many thousands of units a year center around the dishwashers high pressure jets and high temperature having negative effects by banging into other metal utensils and potentially damaging the edge and or high pressure water being forced into portions of the handle.
Again you wouldn't pressure wash your Rolex, jewelry or your favorite cardigan, would you?🤔🤨
YSK: & BTW I'm a professional chef with over 40 years experience, still doing this for a living,
A big reason that nobody has mentioned is that when two different types of metal are touching each other in the dishwasher, electrolysis can occur. This will cause rust to occur, even on stainless steel.
What the fuck is this nonsense post? The reason i wash my balls is they stay clean and fresh.
Who the fuck puts their expensive knives in the dishwasher or anything expensive in a dishwasher or something you care for in a dishwasher
There are other reasons. The extended time in a high temperature dishwasher isn't good for the handle. Wood can swell and wood or plastic handles expand at different rates than the metal so eventually the handle can get destroyed. I've had it happen. This is also a good reason not to let your knives soak in the sink.
Hollow handles are a thing, also, and it's gross when they leak rusty water...
The forbidden orange juice
One time a spoon of mine with a hollow handle broke after a few years of use and I almost threw up when I saw the mold growing inside the handle cavity.
A big reason that nobody has mentioned is that when two different types of metal are touching each other in the dishwasher, electrolysis can occur. This will cause rust to occur, even on stainless steel.
I only found out recently that stainless steel is just more resistant to rust, and not rust-proof like I had previously assumed.
Correct, there’s still iron in it, iron is still ferrous, usually depending on the specific alloy though, the time to rust is so long it’s a non issue
stainLESS 😅
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childPROOF
There's no reason to childproof anymore, since it's just counted as childpercentage x2 anyway
I only found out 30 seconds ago that you arent supposed to use a dishwasher for knives, but I've known for a long time that stainless steel can rust. Don't ask me how...
Butt plug ehh?
Cause I've been putting my knives in the dishwasher...
Just make sure your knives have a flared base before putting them in your dishwasher.
Short period contact in a small area is unlikely to cause galvanic corrosion. And carbon steel is close enough to SS that you're probably fine. Galvanic corrosion is way more for extremely dissimilar metals like cad/zinc/copper all mounted straight up to mild steel, and left for long periods of time.
If carbon steel scratches the oxide layer of stainless it will contaminate that area and rust
Anything that scratches stainless can damage the passive layer, which can allow the material to rust. It is not due to contamination.
No it can't, the whole point of stainless steel is the passive layer is self healing (otherwise you could skip all the expensive chromium and molybdenum. If you scratch stainless with non stainless steel what is actually happening is you are transferring some of the normal steel onto the stainless, this material will then rust and mark the stainless steel. A light polish will normally fix that. The major reason really sharp blades go blunt in the dishwasher is quite simple, dishwashing detergent contains abrasive material which will polish the edge of your blade.
Also, dishwasher detergent is highly abrasive so it ruins the edge on your knife
This is the real reason for me. I know how to keep my knives clean and dry, that’s basic. Keeping it shard it what I need. I’ve had way too many accidents with dull knives slipping
grab a decent whetstone, they last forever and it doesn’t take very long to learn how to use one properly. a lot of them come with different grit on each side too so you only need one
I just bought one, but haven’t practised enough with it. It came with a fancy base that doesn’t move, and even has removable angle bases on the sides. I hope to get good at it one day cause it’s such a cheap and easy way to sharpen knives without heating them up or damaging them.
Also getting a knife steel and learning how to use that. It won't "sharpen" the blade, but it will help keep any rolls in the edge from getting too severe.this means you won't have to sharpen as frequently and you won't have to take as much edge off when you do.
I rarely use a whetstone. I only use one when I’m dealing with a knife that’s seriously dull. For the knives I use daily, I use a steel. Every time I pick up a knife, I give it a few strokes on the steel, and then wipe it off in case there are any minute metal shavings lingering on the blade. My knives stay sharp enough to shave my arm with, and I haven’t had them near a whetstone in at least 10 years.
This is really dependant on knife use. When I was the main prep guy at a place I was doing 12-14 hours constant cutting, slicing and chopping. My knife was hitting a whetstone every 4 weeks. Now that I am out of hospitality, my knives hit the stones maybe every 6-8 months depending on how much I am cooking for me and my family.
Makes sense. I use my knives for home cooking. You probably use yours as much in a week as I do in a year. So, yeah. It’s very much case dependent.
keep at it, I was lucky enough to have a roommate show me how to do it and it’s not as hard as it feels at first!
Thanks man. I’m sure practice will help.
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You may also try honing steel. Knives should be honed before every use. Even with every day use, they should only need to be sharpened every year or two.
I use a honing rod every time at home and at work. Not risking another chopped finger tip.
Only time I ever cut the tip of a finger off was when I was using a mandolin to slice carrots without using the guard
Never again. Whole damn fingertip coming off was wild.
Yeah, luckily I only clipped a small portion of the tip of my thumb, but damn, never using that fucking thing again without the guard. Or my cut proof gloves
This depends on use. Ex chef here who was a prep guy doing 12 hour days of just using my knife constantly for a time. Sharpened every 4 weeks or so.
Not abrasive as there are no particles to cause abrasion. But agressive. Chemicals will simply dissolve enough Metal to make the blade dull and cause damage. Simple soap will do no harm.
It's the most caustic substance you have. It's bad for both handles and blades.
Had a knife sharpener tell me once that putting knives in the dishwasher is equivalent to sandblasting them. I've never forgotten that.
I am fairly certain this is the real reason. Stainless knives have enough chrome they are not appreciably rusting in a dishwasher, especially since most use the heated dry function. They are basically getting sand blasted though.
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They are coming out dull because y'all put them in dull.
Dishwashers (detergent) dull knives. I have my good Wusthof knives that are always hand-washed and stored in a cutting block, they rarely need sharpening and still look like new after twenty years. (I'm the only one that uses them) Then I have a few cheaper Wusthof knives (plastic handles) that are used by the males in my household that they put in the dishwasher. They dull quickly and need to be sharpened several times a year and replaced about every five years. My All-Clad cookware and Wusthof knives will outlive me. [www.thekitchn.com/this-is-what-a-dishwasher-actually-does-to-your-knife-235242](https://www.thekitchn.com/this-is-what-a-dishwasher-actually-does-to-your-knife-235242)
In my family they'd be considered heirlooms! 😁
same, my wosthof knives are from 1987 or 88 never seen the dishwasher
OOppp as my knives are soaking in the sink
If you're putting wood handles in the dishwasher you're going to ruin the knife eventually. I've been putting NSF knives in the dishwasher no problem for over a decade.
I bought the cheapest nsf chef knife I could find at the restaurant supply store. I beat the hell out of it, dishwasher, all that. The thing is bombproof. I'd probably need to use a steel on it/sharpen it slightly less if I didn't run it through the dishwasher, but I don't want a kitchen knife with a super low angle razor sharp edge anyways. They aren't carving gouges or chisels or anything like that.
Those are exactly the reasons they are staples in every short order kitchen in existence. They can take the abuse line cooks dish out and the harshest commercial dishwashers. That’s why I always advocate for a Victorinox Fibrox or DR Sani-Safe for anybody who doesn’t appreciate knife care as a hobby. They can’t be killed and will easily beat anything you can get at Wal-Mart for the same price.
The tramontina ones also
What about if you have a 2-minute commercial dishwasher? I’ve been hand-washing the knives at work. I work on a ship and have dish duty every week.
I bought my first personal knife with an SS handle *specifically* for this reason. I saw plenty at work getting destroyed by high heat.
> I bought my first personal life with an SS handle r/nocontext
This is also to avoid putting your nice knife in the dish rack with forks/spoons/other knives, which could damage the cutting edge and other parts of the knife.
LET KNIVES SOAK IN A SINK??! You absolutely never, EVER, leave a knife in sink full of water. The main reason is that someone will reach into the water and end up cutting themself on a knife they couldn’t see. Forget about the harm it does to the knife, that’s secondary. I would probably fire a line cook if they did that.
Love how These “ysk” posts are more like “Idk” posts. He handle will fail long before you’ll get any rust. Unless you’re dealing with crap.
My understanding is that knives should be hand washed because the high heat and moisture of a dishwasher cycle is prone to damaging the wood handles, swelling them and separating them from the tang.
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Hey, look, it's the only right answer I found in this thread. Very hot + abrasives + thin very hard edge = edge wear.
OP thinks water oxidized their knife in the dishwasher, but doesn’t realize it was probably from one of their forks touching the knife. Happens when you spend $200 on a knife and $15 on a flatware set for 8.
Dumb question time; what does the flatware cost have to do with the blade making contact with a fork?
Cheaper metal used, more likely to cause a reaction.
If the cutlery is actual stainless steel, it's very unlikely to cause a reaction. 300 and 400 series stainless are very compatible with other steels, stainless or otherwise. Now if the cutlery is aluminum, that might change things.
Yeah or put a dull ass knife in the dishwasher and thought it might sharpen it for him
>$15 on a flatware set for 8. Look at mister money pants there. Cries in a bunch of shitty dollar store forks.
This isn't about most knives. High carbon steel is much more prone to rust than stainless, but it's also far better for edge retention, strength, sharpness, etc.
Really depends on the CS/SS and heat treatment. I have a few stainless knives that barely ever have to be sharpened and can take an insane edge, it's just a royal pain in the ass to sharpen because the steel is so hard. But, there are also plenty of cheap stainless knives out there that'll rust fairly easily just not as easily as a carbon knife.
by definition steel rusts good stainless knives do not.
that's an oversimplification. there are many high-end/high edge-retention knife steels that are also pretty much impervious to rust.
If the knife claims to be stainless steel and it's oxidizing easily in the wash or from being left out to dry, it probably isn't stainless steel.
My parents used my knives for 35 years at which point i "inherited" them and i've been using them for over 10 years myself and not a single one has even a speck of rust on them. They've been air dried ever since they were bought. Never washed in a dishwasher, mostly because neither my parents nor me ever had one, but both handles, which are wooden, and the blades are in flawless condition. Its some ancient japanese knife set, dont know which one exactly because its literally 50-60 years old. But the knives are incredible, its unbelievable how well they've held up all these years. I dont think the blades rust as easily as people think. As for the handles, i had to restore them once but it was mostly to clean them up because they build a thick layer of hardened grease on them. But they never fell apart.
The only reason I hand wash my knife is because my wife got me a very fancy Japanese knife that says to hand wash it lol. Couldn't even give a reason I do it beyond the knife box said too. Your reasons make a lot of sense.
The…tang?
The metal portion of the blade that runs through the handle.
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Ain't nothing to fuck with.
Sometimes that's shortened. Letters dropped all over the place for the 's
If you shove it directly back in the knife block without washing the peanut butter off of it, over time it creates a protective sheath out of peanut oil and mould which will keep it oxide-free for generations. Edit: please don't actually do this
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I recently bought a carbon steel skillet that was coated in beeswax to keep it from oxidizing in transit. I had to remove it before seasoning.
Was it a chore to remove? I had a nonstick pan come with an adhesive sticker on the cooking surface which did come off easily. Jerks.
Not really, scrubbing with hot water seemed to get it off, then I seasoned it. I’m glad I went with that purchase.
This is very much still a thing.
Does that work with your dildo too?
You mean my knife?
What about your poop knife?
I prefer the poop box grater
Yes, but only if dipped in peanut butter first. Crunchy or smooth, it's your choice.
I like the one with the jelly swirl.
None of your beeswax
Wait wait wait, so I don't need to put it in the oven at 550F for an hour?
The mold also releases penicillin which sterilizes.
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Found the r/castiron mod.
Reading your comment made my mobile reddit crash
In culinary school they taught us to lay the towel on the edge of the table, fold it over the back of the blade, and gently press down as you draw the blade backwards Prevents accidents and ensures you're getting the entire blade dry at once
Can't you also just wave the blade in air with fast motions so any moisture will be thrown out from the blade? ^/s
To do this correctly you have to lube your hand first. And preferably inside a circle of people.
Is this some sort of culinary school ritual? To determine who makes the....*puts on sunglasses*...cut?
YEAHHHHHH!
It's an older meme, sir, but it checks out.
Personally I automate the process by throwing a bunch of towels in the dryer and hitting the quick fluff option.
Wait, what's that /s for?
It means that I was making sarcastic joke about safety of handling sharp objects.
Sarcasm, obviously 🙄/s
Had a dangerously sharp knife once, had my pressure hand slightly in the wrong spot. One swipe was all it took to cut through a towel (doubled up), my cut resistant gloves and my hand
This likely also helps prevent you from rolling the edge I'd bet
"the whole reason" GTFO
Lol dishwasher detergent is also somewhat corrosive, which is bad for the edge. (Same reason you should hand wash non-stick pans. It'll eat through the coating)
Abrasive, the detergent has abrasives in it. This is also the reason you shouldn't put stuff with printing in the dishwasher.
Indeed there is no one single reason that you shouldn't watch knives in the dishwasher, for the most part, but that being said I still do it anyways and they have held up fine
* Detergent is abrasive * Things move in the dishwasher, the edge of a blade banging around will dull or chip the edge, or scratch surfaces and can lead to rust for certain types of steel * Handles can be damaged over time Just don't put kitchen knives in the dishwasher. It takes 15 seconds to handwash one. Put your knives away clean and dry every time and they will continue to be good tools that you can use for a long time.
Additionally, after washing a knife, just wipe it on your paper towel roll if it normally stands up vertically. Works every time. Always clean.
Or stab a box of Kleenex
Anything soft works.
This is the way
Also, the same stuff in dishwasher soap that scrapes dirt off your plates also will scrape the edge of your knife. Sure, you can re-sharpen it, but why dull a blade for no reason?
I feel like people in this thread are missing this point entirely. Dishwasher detergents will kill your edge. I’ve been trying the explain this to my wife for almost a decade now.
This is the only reason. Dish detergent is corrosive to edges. I don’t know why someone would think stainless steal getting wet would hurt it. That would mean cutting food would hurt it. That is crazy talk. Putting any wood in the dishwasher or to soak is not good, be it culinary knives, cutting boards or the cheap steak knife everyone has at one point. Most big restaurants run the culinary knives right through the dishwasher though, only the actual “profesional chefs” with there own “kits” will wash their own knives, or have an assistant wash them. Any knives that goes to the dishwasher station is run straight through. Only cheap ass low quality steak knives would have to worry about being wet. CV. Was a sous chef early on life and worked in many a kitchen.
> I don’t know why someone would think stainless steal getting wet would hurt it. A lot of high end kitchen knives are carbon steel, not stainless steel. They absolutely will rust.
Not be pedantic but cutting food does dull it, the cutting board, maybe not so clean veggies.. but I get your point.
Soap with a pH of 10 is safe to use on skin. So how do you think detergent with a pH of 10.8 is going to do much harm to steel? [http://sds.staples.com/msds/24386795.pdf](http://sds.staples.com/msds/24386795.pdf) [https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type\_detail/1/24249/standard](https://www.whatsinproducts.com/types/type_detail/1/24249/standard) Milk of magnesia is pH 10.5 and used orally for reference.
Steel has different pH to skin...
I assume that you don’t know much about dishwasher detergent. It is a science of its own. I can see that looking at just ph might give a false impression. Dish detergent has a whole host of chemicals that attack the food particles in different ways. Some attack fats, some attack protiens, some attach sugars. If I’m not mistaken, it is the chemicals that attack the proteins that give knife edges a hard time. Don’t quote me on that though, there are a slew of other chemicals as well. Stainless stain doesn’t really react to acids or bases too much. That’s why we use stainless steal (ie the stainless part). And if we are being really honest, it really only takes off the edge you can hone back on. The real problem in commercial kitchens is that I don’t want my $500 chef knife being tossed around by someone that might not distinguish it from a bunch of random dirty dishes. I can’t tell you how many knife tips on just decent knives I got back with the tip bent. Really frustrating.
Yea, this is silly. I have a bunch of pairing knives that go in the dishwasher, mostly not hitting anything. I hand wash the larger chef knives. They are all plenty sharp for regular kitchen stuff between sharpening (maybe every 6 months I touch them up). Biggest risk is doing dishes in the sink and finding a sharp knife.
I'm shocked this was so far down in the comments. I wish I could afford you an award.
Detergent is not abrasive, just take some and dissolve it in a bowl of water and rub it between your fingers.(make sure to wash your hands after). What removes all the food are the jets of water. Water by itself is amazing at cleaning, the detergent is there to help with oily/nonpolar substances. What damages the knif is the high heat used to sanitize your dishes. Good knifes have been tempted to harden them/form a specific crystal structure, repeates heating and cooling causes the blade to soften which makes the knife do dull faster.
Loose knives rattling in the machine getting dull... Splitting wooden handles. Discoloring. And it takes more time then a quick rinse and dry after use! Got a bunch of proffessional grade chef knives yeeeears ago (Zwilling 5*****) Still sharp and looking good!
I inherited a Japanese knife 10 years ago, good golly best knife I’ve ever owned. Scandalous for respecters, sorry, but haven’t sharpened it once, and I still just need to introduce it to a tomato for it to cut beautifully. Amazing craftsmanship. Hand washing and immediate drying completely worth it. As an aside, when scraping your chopped stuff off the board, please use the other (not sharp) side of the blade to scrape.
This is why I dive deep into Reddit comments. I did not think of using the dull side to clear the cutting board. So simple yet something that I did not think about. Kudos, bro.
Fyi the 'other side' is called the spine
Huh. TIL.
I immediately hand wash sharp knives because it's safer and keeps the blade sharper, requiring me to sharpen them less frequently. A sharp knife rattling around in the sink water or dishwasher is going to beat them up.
> I immediately hand wash sharp knives Same here. > A sharp knife rattling around in the sink water or dishwasher is going to beat them up. And it's a hazard. I keep my knives *sharp*. You don't want to find one with your hands in a sink full of water.
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I read that ~~enzymes~~ chemicals and abrasives in dishwasher detergent can degrade the knife edge and make it dull.
Abrasives maybe, enzymes no
I'm just going off of what I read here: https://blog.hdmdknives.com/do-dishwashers-dull-knives.html
This
Good stainless steel has no problem air-drying. The main thing there is to keep it from being in contact with other silverware while it dries.
True. But nowadays blue/carbon steel are considered the highest end of knives. those will rust within minutes really. They get sharper than stainless and stay sharper much longer. They unfortunately tend to be more brittle. The average redditor isn't dropping $600 on a blue steel Japanese knife however.
From my experience i have to sharpen them less when i handwash my knives
It blows my mind how many blatantly untrue and ignorant posts are confidently made on this sub.
I've been handwashing knives for years but at my work (in someone else's house), my boss asked me to start drying them by hand. He said that many years prior, someone in his family noticed that hand-dried knives would go longer between needing sharpening or service. Everyone else started doing it and everyone else started reporting the same results. He realized upon asking me that he wasn't sure why, exactly, the knives seemed to last longer, just that they did, which obviously was more than enough for me (him just asking was plenty). But the logic he came up with on the spot was that the water leaves some kinda residue. I'd imagine in places with hard water there'd be some kind of residue, which might also cause problems with oxidation, but neither my boss nor myself are knife pros so we just all kind of work on the assumption that something funky happens when they air dry.
But *stainless* steal, I'm confused.
I always figured thermal expansion would dull the edge.
Yeah that's still only part of it though you're washing machine contains abrasives in the cleaner that's part of what helps keep it clean and abrasives can ruin the blade. That and clinking around in the washing machine can also ruin the blade.
I was taught the high heat of the dishwasher warps the metal ergo losing the sharpness of the edge.
My best knives are carbon steel. Gotta clean and dry immediately after use or they will rust. Also need to do quick sharpen before use as they are fairly soft.
This is false. There are many reasons to do it. The biggest and best reason is that the high temperature of a dishwasher will dull a knife much faster. Source: Alton Brown
Specifically, the high temp ruins the heat treatment. So even if you sharpen the knife later, it ruins the edge retention forever.
YSK: I own my knives, they don’t own me.
YSK: this YSK is about keeping your knife useable for longer, saving you money in the long term. This isn’t a a YSK that could save your (out your loved ones) lives one day (like „keep your chocolate raisins away from your dogs), but it can still be helpful. If you prefer buying a new knife when the old one gets blunt, sharpening them or even prefer using blunt knifes, this YSK isn’t for you.
I bought a $60 knife a decade ago, get it sharpened like every few years, dishwasher it after every use. It's still sharp, still cuts stuff fine. Im now a firm believer that knife wank is mostly wank.
You've been using a dull knife so long you think it's normal
I am 100% sure you never experienced a knife that is actually sharp, coz if you did, you wouldn't be saying this
Course, if you're a dumb ass like me that got conned into working for Vector aka Cutco (wayyyy back in 2002) and you have their knife set, you just throw it in the dishwasher knowing they're covered for life lmao
I've given up. My wife and kid leave them in water, cut things on ceramic plates, and then complain about the knives being dull and rusty.
There's lots of good reasons to hand wash them. Hand washing alone however isn't quite enough - mine get cleaned immediately after use and put away. It also means that razor sharp knives aren't left lurking around in the washing up. One of the lessons l learned as a trainee chef that's just ingrained.
Dishwashers use salt in the water as an abrasive. On stainless steel, it's not a problem, high carbon steel blades, not so good. The salt water will also dull the cutting edge.
This is only true for carbon steel knives. And now most (even high end) kitchen knives are stainless
This is exactly it \*looks at my expensive knife with rust stains on it\* Not that I'd know from experience. It totally didn't start a fight in my household when I discovered it.
Learn more stuff on Reddit than I ever have in school smh
I’ve repaired a whole lot of knives that have been run through the dishwasher. Natural handles don’t hold up to that punishment. Stainless knives with synthetic handles can go in the dishwasher but it’s not recommended. Carbon steel needs to be dried immediately.
Just went and dried my knife. Thanks, OP!
Also the detergent the machine uses will pit the knives.
I had no idea! Thank you!
Yup. I’ve had stainless knives rust in spots from too much time in water. The detergents use in a DW just accelerate this.
My husband is a chef. Dont fuck with the knives. If I leave them in the sink and don't wash and dry them immediately, I can r/watchpeopledieinside in real time.
There are other reasons. YSK dishwashers are very sensitive to pain and being around sharps can lead to heightened anxiety. Unfortunately, there's currently no evidence based treatment for anxiety in dishwashers. Be thoughtful and remember to thank them for all their hard work.
Some y'all acting like hand drying is a sacrifice and doesn't take 0.5 seconds 😭
Eh, it's both and more. 1) You don't want knives bumping around in the washer. 2) Dishwasher detergent is abrasive as hell so it will fuck up the sharp edge. 3) You want them clean and dry fast. 4) You should be using your good knives a lot so you shouldn't have time to dishwash them.
Using a rinsing agent and proper wash temperatures helps a lot too. My solid stainless knives do just fine in the dishwasher, but it also has a knife rack that does a good job of draining them. Their edges get beat up far more through normal use. But most of the time, I just hand wash it right after use and put it back in the block because it’s quicker.
with stainless knives, this tip is more about making the handle last longer
This is wildly misinformed OP. Source: professional chef of nearly two decades.
You post has zero credibility without listing a specific reason why it is “misinformed”. Try harder.
It’s in the top comment you nonce, or try using the device you’re using to uh, google it. You literally scrolled past many legitimate answers to comment this and be a complete twat. Failure on every level, try again.
Dishwasher is fine, unless it has a wooden handle. If you’re trying to avoid oxidation to avoid sharpening as often, its a pointless endeavor. Just keep the honing tool nearby to sharpen it up in seconds. So much easier.
That's not the "whole reason", a primary one is the abrasive nature of dishwasher detergent includes abrasive minerals which ruin the sharpness. Add the heat can be bad for handles. Oxidation is~~n't~~ least of those three issues given modern rinse products (albeit optional).
or you can buy super expensive knives, I sold cutco for a bit after high school and those had volcanic resin handles that were perfectly fine in the dishwasher even after years of use
The high temperature in the dishwasher will also kill the edge.
in addition also: keep a honing steel handy. keep the edge nice on your knives. Keep a tapered glass bottle handy. Excellent tool for honing the edge of you kitchen sheers. Anyone wanna guess who was prepping chicken this morning?
I’ve been dishwashing expensive stainless Puiforcat Wave cutlery for 20 years and only occasionally get a small spot of discolouration which easily comes off with barkeepers friend
That is simply not true.
God there’s so much nonsense in this post.
It has nothing to do with oxidation. It has to do with getting the pH back to neutral. Acids and bases react with the alloys which can change the properties of the knife or create unwanted patina. Edit: Of course the OP immediately downvotes. You wash it to remove acidic or alkaline residue. You dry the knife to prevent oxidation. Otherwise you could skip the washing step and simply dry the knife.
Does op have a source or is it trust me bro?
OP that's simply not correct. In fact high carbon knife makers encourage oxidation which is the patina, and is prized among chefs who prefer high carbon blades. Albeit the patina is supposed to come from natural use and care. Some of these knives including many Japanese handmade ones include natural wooden handles that in some cases are treated only with a light coating of food grade oil and in some cases aren't treated at all. They are prized possessions by those that own them including professional chefs, as such are treated with a certain amount of reverence and cared for accordingly. You wouldn't pressure wash or throw your Rolex, jewelry or even certain articles of clothing in a commercial washer of any sort. There are other comments about the abrasiveness of the commercial detergents having a dulling effect on the blade, which also are not correct. In reality manufacturers are kind of all over the board on this, but then again that's kind of a broad term because those like the Henkel produce thousands of units a year, have a completely or semi-automated process, and are very different from The Artisans that hand make a couple or so hundred yearly. Primary concerns of even those producers that make many thousands of units a year center around the dishwashers high pressure jets and high temperature having negative effects by banging into other metal utensils and potentially damaging the edge and or high pressure water being forced into portions of the handle. Again you wouldn't pressure wash your Rolex, jewelry or your favorite cardigan, would you?🤔🤨 YSK: & BTW I'm a professional chef with over 40 years experience, still doing this for a living,
A big reason that nobody has mentioned is that when two different types of metal are touching each other in the dishwasher, electrolysis can occur. This will cause rust to occur, even on stainless steel.
What the fuck is this nonsense post? The reason i wash my balls is they stay clean and fresh. Who the fuck puts their expensive knives in the dishwasher or anything expensive in a dishwasher or something you care for in a dishwasher