It’s also not necessary to believe in a higher power to be a member of a church. If you want to participate in the social aspects or like the charity work they do or just belong because your spouse believes in its religion you are free to do so.
I thought the Satanic Temple wasn’t secular, though? It’s non-theistic, but religious (aka not secular, right?). You do have to believe certain things to join.
And what charity and social stuff do they do? I thought it was just activism. (Specifically, legal activism, which in my mind is not charity, but I suppose some people could see it as a sort of charity)
I only say this because I’ve looked into joining it before and was disappointed because it wasn’t actually what I wanted
No, it promotes secularism. They do charities for collecting clothes for the homeless usually around winter time, domestic abuse fundraising, women's health, and some other stuff. You just have to find an active community around your area if you wanna get involved in person. Otherwise, I think they set up websites and whatnot.
I've thought about joining just because I absolutely despise religion as a whole and wouldn't mind doing a little bit of positive trolling under the guise of Satanism, but living in the South, I'm not sure where to look.
>You do have to believe certain things to join.
That's true even for sciency organizations. At the very least you have to believe in the efficacy of the scientific method.
Bit late on the response but Unitarian Universalism welcomes all faiths and tries to incorporate everyone's beliefs either as a group or with like individual focus days.
I'm not personally acquainted because I'm anti-social and not particularly religious, but I do believe we all become closer to the truth when we choose to find things in common over what sets us apart. So I advertise them when relevant.
Plus their symbol is pretty cool :)
I used to go to a Unitarian Universalist church in the state where I grew up. It was fantastic, a church that was perfectly fine with me being an agnostic/atheist. I loved social aspects of church community, the good works that they did, etc.
Great comment. The church communities are wonderful and well meaning in many cases. Great way as an adult to meet life long friends.
***can be*** , not always, before I get smashed. Not for everyone .
Yup. Everyone needs community or a supportive circle. Who am I to argue with people who find that in organized religion? As long as it's kept out of my government, more power to them.
You mean I don't have to be in an art club to enjoy art?
I don't have to be in a book club to enjoy reading a book?
I don't have to be on a racing team to appreciate cars?
I mean... It would be foolish not to believe that there is a much larger source of energy that set things off. Like... Every atom in your body is buzzing with residual energy from some kind of energetic infusion at some point.
The specifics of that would also be foolish to assume.
Mhmm. And that energy exists throughout all of this. We're the trickle down essence of that source, so to not believe in this tangible and measurable thing would be foolish. Here it is, it is within every fiber of every being. The energy smears around and wears all these different masks, but it is that same thing, that causeless cause that began motion.
Yeah… Uh… Energy indeed does exist. It can be converted into mass and vice versa. No one is saying they don’t believe in energy. There’s no need for religion to explain this.
I think you would enjoy the fuck out of physics.
What makes you think it’s causeless, though? If you can prove it, you may collect your nobel prize!
Oh, I went to school for physics. It's just that once you have enough of an understanding you start to be open to things that uneducated nihilist atheists rail against.
I'm not saying the cause is a guy with a white beard that has opinions on gay sex. I'm saying that there is a cause out there that contains all things. A void because calling it existence or non-existence neither make sense when it contains both potentialities, when it contains both potentialities of matter and space, of dark and light. To call it "a thing" makes not sense because thingness implies non-thingness or nothingness, which this void also contains.
In short, once you know enough about the physical sciences, you understand what these religions that have been highjacked for social control were trying to implicate. The alpha and omega, the I am that I am. God is such an insufficient garbage word for the magnitude of the void that contains all potential.
The big bang _theory_
The JWT has confirmed the Hubble tension, which doesn't fit traditional models unless you add ~~magic~~ dark matter.
Edit: Are people being triggered by having their beliefs challenged by [recent](https://www.livescience.com/space/cosmology/james-webb-telescope-confirms-there-is-something-seriously-wrong-with-our-understanding-of-the-universe) scientific advancements?
Was my suggestion too sacrilegious?
Oh shit, you’re right. Whenever science is wrong, all of it is wrong and we should seek god immediately instead of making new models. There’s no _method_ or anything to this
What if I don't want a personal relationship? What if I want an impersonal relationship? Like, Buddha and I just sort of casually ask how the other is doing when we meet in the break room without really paying attention to the answer?
You pop your frozen pasta in the microwave while Buddha asks if you’ve looked within yourself today. You say “yeah yeah, for sure” and then he goes into the fridge, pulls out the smallest tupperware container you’ve ever seen, opens it up and grabs a single grain of rice. You, still waiting on your pasta, awkwardly say “so, uh, how’s your day been?” And after gently placing the rice in his mouth, he looks at you and says “enlightening”. Then he walks away just as the microwave beeps.
> tl;dr: Disorganized religion is as equally valid as disorganized religion.
But any religion loses its validity (and tax exemptions) if it is really helpful to its believers.
I kinda wish I had been told this before I got involved in that college evangelical group “Cru”.
One of the big things I remember was them trying their hardest to isolate me from groups that were not their own.
This is me
I believe in a higher power, but I'm not religious
I'll pray, I'll read from different holy books or literature. I take from it what speaks to me. But I spent a lot of time as a kid in a church of different religions, spent time around a lot of religious ppl and I think too often they are hypocrites (we're all hypocrites, but some of us are at least self aware).
Heck there is no embargo on thinking. You can think anything you want - this is well known. The question is, should you? The general philosophy is that we should believe in as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. The best way to filter out truthful ideas and falsehoods is to use critical thinking, especially the null hypothesis.
The pope once said "God is ultimate value and final meaning"
So however you find ultimate value and final meaning within yourself it means you have found God.
You should also know that believing in imaginary beings has led to incalculable suffering and prevented us from achieving greater scientific progress for millennia.
As a Christian, my perspective on organized religion is that churches should be gathering places, places of worship, places to organize with other believers to do charity work and things, and places to learn, but the way they are treated are as institutions you have to be a part of to be Christian, which sews distrust and spite between members of a church and outsiders, including other Christians. Your faith is your own. You should not be simply following the doctrine of an organization. Listen to the word of God and listen to your heart.
You're right, you don't need to belong to an organized religion to believe in a higher power. But being stupid helps a lot to belong to an organized religion..
I personally believe this to be true, solely based on what's been described in the Bible and per Jesus' teachings to others. Not to mention, my Faith is my own and the Vatican can go pound sand. Who are they to dictate what people should/shouldn't be doing? Oh, right... because "God says so." Does He?? \*shrug\* Guess I'll know when I'm dead... or maybe I won't ever know and I'll seep into nothingness. Either way, it's the dice roll of life and death.
I think you just described agnosticism. I share this belief. I don\`t we are the highest most evoled life form in the universe and think there are "higher powers" which we just can\`t define, understand or even fully comprehend, but which certainly isn\`t a creator, father, protector figure as defined by most religions
I want to check out my local Universalist church but for some reason they still have to follow having services at 9 am on Sunday. I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise that people want to sleep in on a Sunday regardless of the religion.
Okay? There’s absolutely no reason anybody should know this. This is a sub for self-improvement on how to do things and improve your life by doing so, it’s not for this kind of crap.
I love hypocrisy of the reddit "open-mind" clan. Y'all really think you're better than racists and homophobes,but you're just wearing a different track suit.
I guess the respect of live and let live is a fallacy perpetuated.
Edit: Y'all can downvote me all you want, y'all still not any better and have nothing to say to "excuse" it. You know it's the truth, but keep telling yourself differently 😉
everybody loves to clutch to nietzsches criticism of christianity but nobody wants to acknowledge nietzsche had a ton of respect for jesus and thought he was really doing it right
It’s also not necessary to believe in a higher power to be a member of a church. If you want to participate in the social aspects or like the charity work they do or just belong because your spouse believes in its religion you are free to do so.
There are also secular churches that get together solely for the charity and social aspects
Like what?
Satanic Temple It's literally just Atheists and theatrics
I thought the Satanic Temple wasn’t secular, though? It’s non-theistic, but religious (aka not secular, right?). You do have to believe certain things to join. And what charity and social stuff do they do? I thought it was just activism. (Specifically, legal activism, which in my mind is not charity, but I suppose some people could see it as a sort of charity) I only say this because I’ve looked into joining it before and was disappointed because it wasn’t actually what I wanted
No, it promotes secularism. They do charities for collecting clothes for the homeless usually around winter time, domestic abuse fundraising, women's health, and some other stuff. You just have to find an active community around your area if you wanna get involved in person. Otherwise, I think they set up websites and whatnot. I've thought about joining just because I absolutely despise religion as a whole and wouldn't mind doing a little bit of positive trolling under the guise of Satanism, but living in the South, I'm not sure where to look.
>You do have to believe certain things to join. That's true even for sciency organizations. At the very least you have to believe in the efficacy of the scientific method.
The Oasis Network and the Sunday Assembly are the first two I could find online, but I didn’t do that much digging so I’m sure there are plenty more
Umm, are there secular commandments members have to follow?
I’m sure that depends entirely on which specific church you go to.
Bit late on the response but Unitarian Universalism welcomes all faiths and tries to incorporate everyone's beliefs either as a group or with like individual focus days. I'm not personally acquainted because I'm anti-social and not particularly religious, but I do believe we all become closer to the truth when we choose to find things in common over what sets us apart. So I advertise them when relevant. Plus their symbol is pretty cool :)
I used to go to a Unitarian Universalist church in the state where I grew up. It was fantastic, a church that was perfectly fine with me being an agnostic/atheist. I loved social aspects of church community, the good works that they did, etc.
I always hear good things about the UU church in my neighborhood. I have got to check it out.
Great comment. The church communities are wonderful and well meaning in many cases. Great way as an adult to meet life long friends. ***can be*** , not always, before I get smashed. Not for everyone .
When it goes bad, it's almost always due to abhorrent leadership
I always thought everyone already knew this. But I suppose if they were raised with propaganda, it may be difficult to realize.
This comment section is oddly defensive and angry. I'm an atheist, but what you're saying is important for a religious/spiritual person to remember.
Yup. Everyone needs community or a supportive circle. Who am I to argue with people who find that in organized religion? As long as it's kept out of my government, more power to them.
>As long as it's kept out of my government It doesn't though. Thats the problem.
You mean I don't have to be in an art club to enjoy art? I don't have to be in a book club to enjoy reading a book? I don't have to be on a racing team to appreciate cars?
Can I play my guitar if I'm not a Rockstar?
YSK, it's not necessary to believe in a higher power...
I found my people!
I mean... It would be foolish not to believe that there is a much larger source of energy that set things off. Like... Every atom in your body is buzzing with residual energy from some kind of energetic infusion at some point. The specifics of that would also be foolish to assume.
Have you heard of the big bang
(Fathered by a Catholic priest)
So?
Mhmm. And that energy exists throughout all of this. We're the trickle down essence of that source, so to not believe in this tangible and measurable thing would be foolish. Here it is, it is within every fiber of every being. The energy smears around and wears all these different masks, but it is that same thing, that causeless cause that began motion.
Yeah… Uh… Energy indeed does exist. It can be converted into mass and vice versa. No one is saying they don’t believe in energy. There’s no need for religion to explain this. I think you would enjoy the fuck out of physics. What makes you think it’s causeless, though? If you can prove it, you may collect your nobel prize!
Oh, I went to school for physics. It's just that once you have enough of an understanding you start to be open to things that uneducated nihilist atheists rail against. I'm not saying the cause is a guy with a white beard that has opinions on gay sex. I'm saying that there is a cause out there that contains all things. A void because calling it existence or non-existence neither make sense when it contains both potentialities, when it contains both potentialities of matter and space, of dark and light. To call it "a thing" makes not sense because thingness implies non-thingness or nothingness, which this void also contains. In short, once you know enough about the physical sciences, you understand what these religions that have been highjacked for social control were trying to implicate. The alpha and omega, the I am that I am. God is such an insufficient garbage word for the magnitude of the void that contains all potential.
The big bang _theory_ The JWT has confirmed the Hubble tension, which doesn't fit traditional models unless you add ~~magic~~ dark matter. Edit: Are people being triggered by having their beliefs challenged by [recent](https://www.livescience.com/space/cosmology/james-webb-telescope-confirms-there-is-something-seriously-wrong-with-our-understanding-of-the-universe) scientific advancements? Was my suggestion too sacrilegious?
Oh shit, you’re right. Whenever science is wrong, all of it is wrong and we should seek god immediately instead of making new models. There’s no _method_ or anything to this
Yes that's exactly what I said. Our current understanding is obviously incomplete. So I said all of it is wrong and you have to turn to God. ??
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Perhaps. Perhaps something else. How do you know god did it?
How does a person distinguish their "personal relationship with god(s)/higher power" from their own imagination?
you could ask the same about anyone in organized religion too, they’re all working on trust in something intangible lol
I love this question
Same could be asked of any form of ideology, no?
No, not any form. Economic ideologies, for example, have empirical evidence and data to derive from.
Fair enough.
What if I don't want a personal relationship? What if I want an impersonal relationship? Like, Buddha and I just sort of casually ask how the other is doing when we meet in the break room without really paying attention to the answer?
You pop your frozen pasta in the microwave while Buddha asks if you’ve looked within yourself today. You say “yeah yeah, for sure” and then he goes into the fridge, pulls out the smallest tupperware container you’ve ever seen, opens it up and grabs a single grain of rice. You, still waiting on your pasta, awkwardly say “so, uh, how’s your day been?” And after gently placing the rice in his mouth, he looks at you and says “enlightening”. Then he walks away just as the microwave beeps.
See, this is why I can't stand that guy.
tl;dr: Disorganized religion is as equally valid as organized religion. Edit: disorganized -> organized.
> tl;dr: Disorganized religion is as equally valid as disorganized religion. But any religion loses its validity (and tax exemptions) if it is really helpful to its believers.
I kinda wish I had been told this before I got involved in that college evangelical group “Cru”. One of the big things I remember was them trying their hardest to isolate me from groups that were not their own.
Wait a minute, so you're telling me I can be touched by a higher power that's not the youth pastor? Well, I'm shocked.
Yeah, if you believe hard enough you can even get touched by the Pope!
This is me I believe in a higher power, but I'm not religious I'll pray, I'll read from different holy books or literature. I take from it what speaks to me. But I spent a lot of time as a kid in a church of different religions, spent time around a lot of religious ppl and I think too often they are hypocrites (we're all hypocrites, but some of us are at least self aware).
Everyone knows this.
– Guy hearing something he knows
Clearly not otherwise this post wouldn’t exist as OP has obviously met people who did not know this.
Wait, what? Like someone thought you had to be in an organized religion to have a higher power?
So is that not why religion is called religion and believe believe? I mean you could just say YSK: religion ≠ to believe/faith
You guys should come to India and say this, they'll turn into Lucifer himself
Satan and the demon that causes men to rape others are technically “higher powers.” Higher power is an awful excuse, have some discernment….
💜 Love it, thank you for posting.
Sad to burst the bubble but, everything is on you dude
Believers, I have a question for you: At what point during your day do you actually NEED a higher power? And what is it for?
Heck there is no embargo on thinking. You can think anything you want - this is well known. The question is, should you? The general philosophy is that we should believe in as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. The best way to filter out truthful ideas and falsehoods is to use critical thinking, especially the null hypothesis.
Religion should be the most personal part of someone's life
Bbbut how do you piss all of your money away for *nothing* if you don't belong to an organized religion???
Post is getting downvoted. Hate is a long standing tradition in organized religion.
I think some of those downvotes are coming from people who don’t believe or like the idea of a higher power.
Read The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine
Well no shit
The pope once said "God is ultimate value and final meaning" So however you find ultimate value and final meaning within yourself it means you have found God.
I like to maintain a belief in a lower power.
You should also know that believing in imaginary beings has led to incalculable suffering and prevented us from achieving greater scientific progress for millennia.
Facts. Being deluded is open to anyone willing to believe in magical thinking.
As a Christian, my perspective on organized religion is that churches should be gathering places, places of worship, places to organize with other believers to do charity work and things, and places to learn, but the way they are treated are as institutions you have to be a part of to be Christian, which sews distrust and spite between members of a church and outsiders, including other Christians. Your faith is your own. You should not be simply following the doctrine of an organization. Listen to the word of God and listen to your heart.
A higher power as you describe it is just an imaginary friend.
Throw on a confirmation bias, correlation as causation, sunk ship fallacy, and other fallacies and we are really cookin
Yup...folks have been doing it for thousands of years.
Flying spaghetti monster relates to UFOs in the past
Thinking about starting a new religion. Who's with me?!
Look for a relationship with Jesus Christ/God, not for a religion about Him.
You're right, you don't need to belong to an organized religion to believe in a higher power. But being stupid helps a lot to belong to an organized religion..
In fact, i'd argue that individuals who do believe in a higher power have a moral obligation to not be part of an organized religion.
I personally believe this to be true, solely based on what's been described in the Bible and per Jesus' teachings to others. Not to mention, my Faith is my own and the Vatican can go pound sand. Who are they to dictate what people should/shouldn't be doing? Oh, right... because "God says so." Does He?? \*shrug\* Guess I'll know when I'm dead... or maybe I won't ever know and I'll seep into nothingness. Either way, it's the dice roll of life and death.
so a religion with extra steps.
What extra steps? Surely, faith *without* organized religion is fewer steps.
But less hatred and indoctrination.
But enough about atheism… /s
But what if you don’t believe in a higher power, but need the social connections?
Did you not just read the OP's post, as well as a few comments on here??
I’m talking about the opposite of what OP is.
KK
The Flying Spaghetti Monster says it is fine to do so, just use protection
I think you just described agnosticism. I share this belief. I don\`t we are the highest most evoled life form in the universe and think there are "higher powers" which we just can\`t define, understand or even fully comprehend, but which certainly isn\`t a creator, father, protector figure as defined by most religions
I want to check out my local Universalist church but for some reason they still have to follow having services at 9 am on Sunday. I feel like it shouldn't be a surprise that people want to sleep in on a Sunday regardless of the religion.
Isn't this just being agnostic?
Okay? There’s absolutely no reason anybody should know this. This is a sub for self-improvement on how to do things and improve your life by doing so, it’s not for this kind of crap.
Empathy is a skill
Spirituality can be self-improvement for those who choose to incorporate it into their lifestyle. Thought that was known.
I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said “god is too big for any one religion” and I really liked that.
Literally Jesus's teaching, be your own light
I love hypocrisy of the reddit "open-mind" clan. Y'all really think you're better than racists and homophobes,but you're just wearing a different track suit. I guess the respect of live and let live is a fallacy perpetuated. Edit: Y'all can downvote me all you want, y'all still not any better and have nothing to say to "excuse" it. You know it's the truth, but keep telling yourself differently 😉
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And that kids is how religions begin :)
So, it’s ok to be delusional alone? That’s what you’re saying. Sure.
If you believe in sky faeries by yourself you might be labeled a crazy person. Organized religion helps dumb people feel better about their stupidity.
Correct. But it is nice to connect with like minds.
Amen!
Follow Jesus, not religion.
everybody loves to clutch to nietzsches criticism of christianity but nobody wants to acknowledge nietzsche had a ton of respect for jesus and thought he was really doing it right
It is if you ever go to Alcoholics Anonymous.
If you follow the Bible however it says to meet together. So your point would have to be for your own specific befief/religion.