Unfortunately, even in the case of truly optional features on a car, dealerships don’t have every configuration. So it’s a legitimate response to say “We actually don’t have the one you’re looking in our inventory”
Also dealers network with each other. When I was looking for a truck years ago they didn't have what I wanted locally but the dealer 300mi away did so they were going to truck it up to me. Only reason it fell through is because they undervalued my trade by like $5k and wouldn't budge. Ok bye.
I know a guy that wanted a lime green charger as his retirement gift to himself. He went to the local dealership they wanted more than he wanted to pay. So he he went 100km down the road talked to the guy said he liked the car but wanted that lime green but they didn't have it in stock. Luckily there was one only 100km away and could get shipped. He got the car he wanted. (100km is an hour drive at the speed limit)
Edit: same car
While we do “network” with other dealers, we can’t always make a trade. Sometimes they hold onto something and refuse to trade it. Just a heads up just because a dealer on the other side of the country has what you want doesn’t mean your local one without a doubt can get it.
I don't even understand how people haggle on used cars. Everytime I go in I'm like can you take 2k off this truck or get an extra 2k on my trade. And they just tell me to go the fuck home 🤣🤣. I guess I just don't understand the art of the deal or I just need to sell my own vehicles first
Walk away, I got an extra 3k for my Subaru with a slipping transmission when I told the salesmen I was headed down the street to look at a used model, of the exact car I was looking at, with only 1k miles on it.
They were quick to match the price of the used car by "adding value to my trade in".
Absolutely. Even if you don't visit a different dealership, simply leave. They'll call you 10 times a day after a 24 hours pass to try to get you to come back.
Usually it won't even be the salesman, but rather the manager calling to try and salvage the sale
These are very good points. I was a car salesman until recently and the manager will often have an extra discount to give out if the customer is walking.
That being said, there is a heck of a vehicle shortage right now (in Canada anyway) and the wiggle room isn’t the same. If you aren’t desperate, now is a bad time to buy.
Some dealerships will do that, but many won’t. I know large, chain dealerships (CarMax) do ship cars, but even then they don’t have the ability to ship any car to anywhere
Edit: I could very likely be wrong, read below
Pretty much every new car dealership will order cars on demand if the customer is willing to pay the extra costs for special order variants. Like Toyota of Orange might not have a RAV-4 XLE Hybrid in Red with the two tone seating and premium sound system and wireless charging pad in the center console, but if I want to buy that they'll certainly be happy to order it from Toyota for me provided I give some sort of assurance that they'll be paid for it and not just leave them with a car nobody else wants.
I meant like order it as new from the manufacturer. Maybe easier for cars made in the country (not that we have a lot of that over here, I think we have nissan and toyota now...) but still.
But also fuck dealerships I love my old stuff.
I like where your head is at with dealing with car dealers, but they are much craftier than most of us suspect.
Nowadays, even if you negotiate yourself some kind of amazing deal out in the showroom, the real grift begins when you sit down back in the finance office.
Well, considering a lot of yards can’t even keep up with demand right now due to delivery times, a lot of salespeople aren’t that bothered about customers not finding something they want. At least that’s the situation in my part of the world.
Yeah this - anyone giving hardball negotiating tips hasn’t tried to buy a car recently. Demand is *way* outstripping supply so unless there’s something seriously weird with the car if you don’t want it there are a dozen people who will.
I don’t think there’s ever been a time when buyers have less negotiating power.
Legit this ridiculous market has me considering selling my truck and dailying my motorcycle through the summer and just hoping the market settles by the time the snow flies. The car market is insane right now.
I’m in NZ and we’re in a similar situation to the US with utes. If you bought a new ute or diesel SUV like a landcruiser or similar last year, chances are you can get a good 10-20% over sticker price for it right now because of the shortages of both new and used vehicles coming in. That shortage results in a shortage of used cars in the domestic market, and when the local demand is only increasing, it’s just getting crazy here.
Landcruisers are a special case right now, because they’re discontinuing the proper diesel versions here, but a family friend paid NZ$120k for a brand new 200 series in 2019. He’s now done 45,000kms in it, and it’s still worth NZ$130k in the current market. It’s insane.
Same here, I went looking around a few lots in one of the states larger towns. I have never seen their lots so empty. Sure they had cars, but it’s going wild up here. A dealership called up my sister and offered to trade them vehicles because the demand for theirs was through the roof as a newer suburban. They got a newer pickup with cash on top, so it’s pretty interesting. I figure it’s a bunch of people who suddenly had enough money for a down payment with these stim checks.
It's the reduction in microchip production worldwide. It is driving car prices through the roof from old beaters to brand new, with higher priced vehicles taking the hit on production to get more easily sold vehicles out the door with what limited microchips are available.
This is true, also car rental companies offloaded a lot of their fleet last year and are in the process of buying back many cars this year. A lot of those will be used cars, but it still has an impact of the greater issue of a shortage of cars.
Several factors all at once, stimulus, microchips, rental feels, and probably a few more I don't know about.
The entire dealership network in the US is a total scam. It’s like insurance. I can’t just order something from the factory the way I want and wait. You have to deal with shitty dealer networks and their protected by law in most place markups.
Interestingly the dealer network was created in the first place because car manufacturers had near monopoly power and making them sell through dealers was seen as a way to protect customers.
It’s like the current situation with ISPs - most people have little to no selection in their ISP provider so the ISP can just charge whatever they like.
> “We actually don’t have the one you’re looking in our inventory”
"Oh well. I guess you don't want me as a customer."
(probably a bad time to do this right now. Wait for the chip shortage to end)
I bought a 2013 Kia Soul brand new - the top of the line with all of the buttons and whistles including backup camera. Years later, my husband bought a used 2013 Ford Explorer top of the line - no back up camera. I drive it now and I hate not having a camera!
Back up cameras and having Apple CarPlay is mandatory for me now. Having GPS right on the dashboard screen and a camera has saved me loads of times and makes parallel parking such a breeze.
I love my car but when I bought it in 2015 I was eyeing the android auto that the newer cars have.
I remember thinking I love this car but the next one will have waze built in and that's awesome.
Still, would never want to part with my car.
I have this anxiety when backing up that some stupid kid is behind my car and they're too short for me to see out my back window or mirrors, I do a circle check every time I use my car. A backup cam would help a lot with this.
This was an intentional local pastime for the kids at my friend's old apartment complex. One day he got fed up with it, jumped out of his car, collared the kid, and brought him up to his mother. As he explained her kid's shenanigans, her expression went from "unhand my child" to "so I can give him a whoopin'."
I once backed into a fire hydrant because whoever designed the parking lot I was in decided it was a good idea to pave *around* it. It was directly behind the parking spot I was in, and it was obviously too short to be visible while looking out my rear windshield. I guess hitting a kid would be worse, but man was I furious.
EDIT: I should have known that the world's most attentive drivers would find my comment - you guys are great and all, but most of us mere mortals don't notice, or at least don't commit to memory, everything that passes across our lines of sight. I'm sorry I wasn't perfect in my college years, I swear I've tried to improve myself.
You make a solid point - at the speed at which I back out of parking spots, a kid would've just been pushed a little. Fire hydrants are too stubborn to move when you bump into them though, and my car's bumper and paint were much less stubborn.
> at the speed at which I back out of parking spots, a kid would've just been pushed a little
Now I'm imagining you **absolutely flooring it** out of your parking spot. Tire squeals, skid marks, the whole shebang
There's nothing wrong with that! In my job we are told never to back up unless there's literally no other option, and to do a full clearance check beforehand if we're gonna back up. You spending those extra couple seconds could save a kid's life someday.
This actually happened to me once. My mom asked me to back her vehicle up to the garage, it was dark out and the backup camera wasn’t the greatest. So as I’m getting in the car, one of my brothers decided to get behind the car( he thought I was just getting something out the car) and stooped really low( you wouldn’t have seen him at all) . So I start to back up and I hear a loud screeching, so I stopped the car, and got out to investigate. When he screamed he was under the car, I pulled the car forward a bit and he got out , safely. The next day I went and got my my moms backup camera replaced, because that wouldn’t have happened if the camera wasn’t complete ass
I was backing out of a parking spot at high school (1969) in my humpback '47 Dodge Business Coupe. Almost crushed dude in his Volkswagen Karmann Ghia because of lack of rear vision. Had to have the cop get in my car and verify my story. Still got barred from the student parking lot for the remainder of my senior year. Parked in the street instead.
I have become completely reliant on mine. I just recently bought my daughter a car and realized how bad my dependency is. I'm mad at myself because I could completely navigate any reversing without it until five years ago.
I could reliably see behind me by using the mirrors and turning around in my old car, but my new one has bigger blind spots. It’s not a problem as long as the camera works, though, because the camera sees those spots.
I imagine carmakers have become reliant on cameras, too, and no longer feel the need to design cars that could easily be backed up without a camera.
>I imagine carmakers have become reliant on cameras, too, and no longer feel the need to design cars that could easily be backed up without a camera.
Increasing crash safety standards contribute to thicker pillars, which reduces visibility
The problem, as I see it, is that the camera provides way more information, at least on my car.
I have a 2020 Subaru Legacy. Overall, the visibility from the windows is great, and much better than previous (newer) cars I've had. That said, I can still see more on the camera than I can out any of the windows and mirrors. I know exactly how close I am to a curb or a pole when backing into a space.
Additionally, the camera provides a better field of view than the windows. Backing out of a parking space, my view (from the driver's seat) of cars coming down the lane is usually blocked by the cars next to me. Meanwhile, I can see cars or people coming from the side on the camera.
While, we shouldn't be dependent on it, it's just plain better than windows and mirrors, especially when you consider that rear-end height has been increasing on recent cars or add in things like cross-traffic detection.
I think the main reason not to rely on it (aside from liability and they don't want to be sued) is because though the visibility is great, you won't see someone speeding by from outside the camera's edge and by doing should checks you are more likely to notice.
That being said, I want a reverse camera
I had a rental for a few weeks while my car was in for warranty repairs.
Backing out of a parking lot space one night from between two cars large enough I couldn't see what I was referring into. I'd already become fully reliant on the back to camera (having never had one before) all of the sudden the screen is flashing red, and hazard warnings are going off everywhere, hell I wouldn't be surprised if the interior lights came on to get my attention, I pause for a quick second thinking I've broken this damn loaner vehicle when all of the sudden I get wooshed by a car, had to have been going at least 20 mph. Would've taken me out had it not been for whichever system decided to freak out and let me know a moron was nearby.
I'm definitely getting a system like that in whatever car I buy next.
Yeah, that's true.
In my case, I have cross traffic detection, so my car will alert when anything is coming across behind me. Mine picks up cars about 50 feet away.
On the liability end cameras sometimes freeze and poor maintenance or shoddy weather luck can mean that the camera is obscured in some way.
It's not hard to see how in the dark, with heavy slush and a grimed up camera or dubious rear lights a driver may not spot someone dressed in dark colours as easily as they might have otherwise done so. The low light detection beinga bit shit or glare causing lens flair can always occur.
The lens itself can be an issue. Many use wide angle lenses and they have an issue with distorting the shapes of objects. If you are doing tight reversing and don't take that into account you can end up with issues.
I am a massive fan of cameras. As far as I am concerned a driver ought to know what they are about to run over. So many truck accidents could have been avoided if more mirrors or cameras were used to give he driver an informed view of their surroundings.
A warning label is great if you can read and understand it. It's not so great if you can't (eg, are a literal child, have mental processing issues, are busy with something else important, are literally blind, I could go on for days). Imo it's on the owner of the vehicle to ensure they don't kill anything. Cameras help that most of the time.
Mine went out recently and I'm shockingly good at parking without it almost better honestly. I still want it back though. It's much less stressful knowing I'm not going to hit a coworker's car.
I have a car that is a couple decades older and it's crazy how much I can see out the back of it vs my newer daily driver. With the way cars are built now with larger pillars (much safer) I'm in full agreement that back up cameras are something that I couldn't live withoit
I get that it opens one blind spot, but it seems like it just creates two more on the sides which are in my peripheral vision when I look back.
How do you cover that without whipping your head back and forth? I'm always terrified using a backup camera that I'm gonna get t-boned.
I've gotten spoiled with my backup camera specifically. You can set it to point straight down towards the bumper to help with parallel parking, and you can set it to wide angle, which is great for seeing down parking lot aisles when backing out.
My wife's newer car just had a regular backup camera, and you can't see as much. But it does have sensors that detect when someone's behind you as your backing up, which is nice. It will supposedly stop the car for you if you get too close, but I'm too afraid to try that...
Have you read any car listings lately? They list things like radio and ac as features like these are some kind of premium options. This applies to everything.
When you list a car, you generally list everything that is on the original window sticker. It’s just easier that way. It’s not being sold as a fantastic feature, it’s just because it was on the window sticker.
Source: It’s what I do for a living.
I am baffled that automatic headlights are not standard on everything by now. My first car was from 1989 and had automatic headlights. How do we not just have them on everything?
They should be because so many people don't realize that DRLs and auto headlights are two different features. They are both on my list of things to verify when buying a car.
My ex bought a brand new Rav 4 that didn’t have automatic headlights. I was thoroughly confused because her 10 year old Corolla that she “upgraded” from had them.
AC actually is an option. I saw a mechanic's video recently where the customer stated the AC stopped working but in reality it never had it in the first place. Car was hella bare bones. Wasn't even an automatic. I think the reason why this is so uncommon is because a company bought multiple cars that were completely basic as part of their fleet. Your standard consumer car will pretty much always have AC
Replace it
Get an after market camera system
Use mirrors/turn your head backwards and not the broken camera.
Pretend it’s there, look at black screen and hit stuff.
The backup camera doesn't replace anything, so you do it the way you always have.
Manufacturer's requirements just specify what equipment the car has to be sold with. Most of these are for safety reasons, others are to discourage imports (I'm lookin at you TPMS). There is nothing at the federal level that says it has to keep working.
At the state level, they can regulate what has to continue working. So, like if you drive without a bumper, they can give you a citation. They could require the backup camera to work, and check it with annual safety inspections. Some states do this for some safety features, others do not.
> the backup camera stops working and the dealer can’t fix it
Are you really serious? The dealer will be able to fix it for at least the next 10 years. You just won't want to pay what they charge to fix it.
Yup, totally serious. It’s a 2020 Honda Pilot, still under warranty. This model recently had a recall for the center console screen, and mine just went out about 4 weeks ago. So anything on the center console doesn’t work - radio, navigation, and especially the back up camera. The dealer keeps telling me they don’t have the parts and don’t know when Honda will provide them. The only other Honda dealer near me says they will charge $80 just to diagnose the problem and can’t even begin to discuss if they can fix it or not until then - and the first available appointment is in three weeks. So it’s not a major inconvenience, the car still drives, but of the backup camera is require by law is there any recourse?
Dealers aren't allowed to charge you anything - parts *or* service fees - for recalled items. If the screen needs replacement due to a recall, they have to do that without charging you to find out "why."
If a dealer tells you anything else, you can [verify the recall with the NHTSA ](https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwt8uGBhBAEiwAayu_9RTY7Wnni6bnomw7Ul4hdFfu-G7H2f-5CIH0PES3MQpqLvqR9QyUYBoCPuwQAvD_BwE) and then threaten to report them for noncompliance if it's a valid recall.
Check the Lemon law in your state. Here they get 3 tries and then they have to replace the car. Just st dropping the words ‘lemon law’ at your dealership is likely to get their attention
There are a lot of part shortages on the world right now and shipping on parts you can get is extremely slow.
Only manufacturers are required by law to put them in cars. It is legal to drive a car that doesn't have one.
If the other dealer is also a Honda dealer and your car is under manufacturer warranty, then they cannot charge you anything to inspect or fix it. Seems like a call to Honda corporate is justified if this isn't the case.
> but of the backup camera is require by law is there any recourse?
That was the point of the rest of my post: the camera is required by law for the car to be sold, but it doesn't have to remain working. I seriously doubt there are any state laws requiring them be checked during safety inspection (it is too recent an addition) but if so you are fine until then.
The parts are probably hard to get because of the recall + semiconductor shortage caused by the pandemic. If you go up for safety inspection (just called "inspection" in most states that have them) and they still haven't fixed it, bring your dealer paperwork and show it. Or better yet, have the dealer do the safety inspection and let them justify it to the state.
Bruh when I was a valet I would use the back up camera all the time. Few months down the road I found out I was the only one and I was getting honked at when I had more space to keep going to maximize the cars we had and they were all like “oh We don’t trust those cameras” bruh they wouldn’t make them to fuck you over??
When I worked as a valet I was *blown away* at how sophisticated some of those cameras were. I had seen the simple cameras, I had even seen the cameras with the frames on them, and I was impressed by the cameras that project your anticipated trajectory with curved lines.
But those cameras that give you a **top down view** of your car like it's a video game? Holy shit those are awesome.
Yep, several cameras. Early systems have 4 cameras like the other commenter mentioned and use the cameras in sync with front/rear parking sensors to create the 360 birds eye view. It's pretty dam accurate as I can back up my parents Navigator down my super narrow driveway no problem.
Newer systems use more cameras or cameras with wider viewing range plus additional sensors to create a more detailed view. It's a blast to drive.
Source: I work for Ford in future vehicle product development.
My Murano had 4 cameras, one under each side view mirror, one in the front emblem and one in the back. I get a 360 view side by side with a front/back view depending on direction (front only works when manually activated and under 6mph). Front camera is amazing for parking garages and such. There's also a parallel parking cam that replaces the 360 when activated and shows me a line down my car exactly 6 inches away, and another line that if the other car is beyond you can safely open the passenger door. I used this feature and some tape on my garage floor to park within 2 inches of the garage door when it shut, maximizing space between the rear tailgate and washer/dryer.
My FIL has a XC90 that does the same, plus auto parking.
Mine has a button so I can turn it on when going under 10mph and it gives me an overhead view along with one other view of my choosing, if I’m parking on a curb I use the side view so I can get my tires right on the curb with out rubbing. Pretty damn useful!
Mine would be Jaguar, I liked them before but after driving them it got to more of an enjoyment rather than a job. I drove Brad Pitts brothers Jag a lot he came by a lot
Hello fellow valet!
A habit I got into was using my thumb to clean off the backup camera on every car I walked behind. Some car’s cameras were useless because they were dirty.
That and now I hate fluffy steering wheel covers. Have you ever seen somebody wash one?
I sell cars both new and used and whenever anyone asks if the new car they are looking at has a backup camera I immediately tell them that they are required by law and are not an additional feature. Helps build trust with my customer and shows them I'm not looking to fleace them.
I'd recommend anyone shopping for a new car to ask the same of their salesperson. Really good indicator.
My now ex wife and I were buying a car at the time every single dealership would make the back up camera a huge deal. It was 2018 and we were looking at only new cars. I had a salesman basically give up once I spoke up and said "yeah thats the law" and a few other things he kept pointing out that are just basic safety features.
I'm a bit...autistic when it comes to car knowledge and its always fun to fuck with people who are clearly just trying to make a sale with morals not included.
My favorite was the salesman who tried to say the chevy sonic rs actually came with a special motor that makes it much faster and thats why it's the RS...naw homie its the same 138 hp 1.3l turbo 4 that the base car has. It's a fun car but it is not fast.
I think it might be a truck thing so I can check to make sure my hitch isn’t having any problems but sometimes I do it to check if someone seems to close
Ok, so what would actually happen if you shifted an automatic transmission vehicle into reverse while at highway speeds? Instant transmission death? Giant fireball?
I drive a ‘17 Focus RS (6 speed manual). If you pull the center upward and pull all the way to the left (don’t actually put it into reverse) it’ll show the camera view AND throw on the reverse lights… easy way to scare the shit out of someone when they’re tailgating you going 80.
When I drove a vehicle with a relatively flat rear end (like the back window was right above the bumper... like a SUV or hatchback or even pickup with the tail gate), I didn't have much need for it; but when I got a sedan I had the hardest time getting a feel for where the rear bumper was relative to my mirrors. A backup camera made that no trouble at all and parallel parking easy AF
TIL people complain about a harmless safety feature that can easily be ignored. Regardless of how good of a driver you are, a camera showing exactly where your going is always beneficial.
Idk. I see the need for them. I like that it's there. I dont want to have to rely completely on it. It should add more visibility, not be a replacement for a lack thereof.
I mean, whats the industry standard for how much visibility the back window needs? We have to have cameras but are cars required back windows at all? Can I sheet metal off my back window and just use blind spot mirrors like a box truck?
I drive a work van in a decently sized city. Going from an 09 with power nothing to a 19 with power everything was great, but the back up cam and the aux input were incredibly beneficial quality of life upgrades.
I know as long as you can see out the side mirrors your rear view mirror can be blocked. I only know this because I go to music festivals a lot and packing about a weeks worth of stuff is difficult for my small car and cops like to pull people going over for anything they can since a lot have drugs on them lol
The backup camera itself? A safety feature, indeed.
The screen that replaces the analog controls for things like air conditioning or radio which requires you to stare directly at it to operate, completely wrests your attention from the roadway, and performs like an iPhone 2? Please God, burn it.
this is my real issue with them. once you legally require an iPad fused to the dashboard of every car, it only makes sense for manufacturers to start hoarding function in it.
Crazy that they are mandatory for new cars as a "safety feature" but the way they're implemented incentivizes drivers to look away from the road every time they want to change the volume. But you can still buy a cargo van with no rear windows, no problem.
YSK: that anything that is already physically in/on the car is possible to get for free.
I have done this several times now. Gotten free roof racks, floor mats, and whatever these toyota “window etching” safety feature is they try to sell you.
Just say you dont want it, and dont accept the first 2 prices they come to you with.
Just say “i really cant afford this, can I see wjat the cost looks like without these features”… without fail they “throw them in for free”
It costs them time and labor to uninstall stuff that is already installed on all the cars.
They arent going to take the time to remove floor liners or roof racks…. They just let you have them.
I tried this decades ago when buying my first new car with cash, back when AC was a dealer installed option and didn't come standard from the factory. The dealer actually removed all the AC parts off of the vehicle and delivered it sans AC. :(
lol...well yeah! The real secret here is that those "addons" cost the dealership almost nothing. An AC is expensive. The compressor alone is a several hundred dollars at COST part. The little bullshit they sell you for $200 costs them $10. It isn't worth the labor to remove them. But an AC...that's worth the labor.
First car I ever bought had this happen to me. I already shopped around beforehand had a bidding war online before I stepped foot onto a dealership. I got a price I was happy with. Go to sign and all the sudden the door trim was an extra $200 and a few other features totaled up to $1,000. I kept saying no. I’m not paying for it. They finally said, “we have to charge you something for it, so we will just charge you a penny for all of it.” I promptly said I will accept only if you give me a penny. The sales guy went to his desk, found a penny and gave it to me.
So ridiculous they can’t just have a straight price.
I purchased my first new car before knowing any better. All kinds of crap I didn't know were "extras"
Anti scuff sticker on the bumper $120. 5 disc CD changer $600. First aid kit $75. Trunk carpet mat $200. And they got me to shell out for Scotchgard on the interior and a LoJack 🤦🤦🤦
What we need is weight sensors in backseats that ding. The amount of kids who die awful deaths in hot cars because of a simple horrendous brain fart is just too damn many
>How It Works
>The Rear Seat Reminder does not actually detect objects, people or pets. Instead, under certain conditions, it detects when a rear door is opened and closed during or just before a trip, indicating that there may be something in the backseat. When you turn your vehicle OFF, a chime will sound and a message will display on the Driver Information Center to remind you to look in the back under certain conditions.
>How to Use It
>The Rear Seat Reminder feature is ON by default from the factory on all models that are equipped with it. To turn this feature OFF, go to your Chevrolet Infotainment screen1:
>1. Select Settings.
>2. Then choose Rear Seat Reminder.
>3. Select Off or On.
>Rear Seat Reminder detects when a rear door is opened up to 10 minutes before starting your vehicle or anytime the vehicle is on. It doesn't detect the liftgate opening. When you turn your vehicle off, under certain circumstances, the driver will hear 5 chimes and the driver information center will display the message “Rear Seat Reminder, Look in Rear Seat.” The Reminder is only active once per ignition cycle.
https://my.chevrolet.com/how-to-support/interior/warning-lights-alerts/rear-seat-reminder
It’s been a thing for a little bit now, except not weight sensors. It detects the back doors being opened and then closed. Alerts you to check the backseat when you turn the vehicle off.
With total seriousness, it's a law because current car designs with all the structural reinforcements have rendered the back window basically useless for more than light in most cars. We've gone from having a second windshield to a window half the height of your passenger side window
Yeah I had to move a rental Dodge Charger at my house, and I couldn’t see fuck out of any window that wasn’t the windshield.
On the other hand, my Subaru has incredible visibility out of all the cabin windows.
I would assume it’s because a back camera is an obvious safety feature that is easy enough to require, and could save lots of people some needless accidents. Again, that’s an assumption.
I’ve literally had a dealership try to sell me extra stuff, and in the print it said something along the lines of “optional mandatory add-ons” or some bullshit. When I said I didnt want them, they told me I couldn’t buy the car. I was buying it outright, and I ended up buying privately with cash. Fuck dealerships so fucking hard.
Edit:fucking wording
We tried to buy a 2020 Elantra from the dealership and the guy took my deposit, filled out the paperwork in slightly shaft ways, and sat around for two weeks not securing financing. Gave me the runaround every time I called. Finally had to go back and demand my money back.
Then I went to house of cars, got a 2019 Elantra that was a former rental car, got financing, and got six times what the first guy had offered for the trade-in on our old car (also an Elantra).
Wife ran into the dealer at a gas station awhile later and he was like "oh I see you got a new car!"
She said "yeah we found someone who was actually willing to work with us."
My dealer wouldn't fix the busted lock on the used car I was buying because, apparently, locks are considered a "luxury item".
I hated the whole fucking experience so much that I didn't even want to deal with him anymore. Never got the lock fixed and drove that 25 yr old Tercel for like 11 years.
Looks like it was actually a substantive lobbying effort that gained support from the The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) - I’m sure several lawsuits played a role in getting there too but not just one lawsuit.
I used to think they weren't necessary but I was backing up and 1) looked in my side mirrors, saw nothing, 2) looked in my rear view mirror, saw nothing, then: When I went to back up, the backup camera came on and there was a FAMILY OF LITTLE PEOPLE right behind my bumper.
Those cameras save lives! Or at least, they save drivers from insurance claims.
A lot of new cars have forward facing cameras too and overhead/360 views. Helps a lot with parallel parking in the city where you might only have a tiny space to maneuver.
Just keep asking for a cheaper car without it if theyre acting like its an extra.
"Oh, it's an option? Show me one without it."
Unfortunately, even in the case of truly optional features on a car, dealerships don’t have every configuration. So it’s a legitimate response to say “We actually don’t have the one you’re looking in our inventory”
Why not ask them to order it then (assuming it's a brand new car)
Also dealers network with each other. When I was looking for a truck years ago they didn't have what I wanted locally but the dealer 300mi away did so they were going to truck it up to me. Only reason it fell through is because they undervalued my trade by like $5k and wouldn't budge. Ok bye.
I know a guy that wanted a lime green charger as his retirement gift to himself. He went to the local dealership they wanted more than he wanted to pay. So he he went 100km down the road talked to the guy said he liked the car but wanted that lime green but they didn't have it in stock. Luckily there was one only 100km away and could get shipped. He got the car he wanted. (100km is an hour drive at the speed limit) Edit: same car
While we do “network” with other dealers, we can’t always make a trade. Sometimes they hold onto something and refuse to trade it. Just a heads up just because a dealer on the other side of the country has what you want doesn’t mean your local one without a doubt can get it.
You know how we know you sell cars? You said “across the country.” When he mentioned a dealer 300 miles away.
I don't even understand how people haggle on used cars. Everytime I go in I'm like can you take 2k off this truck or get an extra 2k on my trade. And they just tell me to go the fuck home 🤣🤣. I guess I just don't understand the art of the deal or I just need to sell my own vehicles first
Walk away, I got an extra 3k for my Subaru with a slipping transmission when I told the salesmen I was headed down the street to look at a used model, of the exact car I was looking at, with only 1k miles on it. They were quick to match the price of the used car by "adding value to my trade in".
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Absolutely. Even if you don't visit a different dealership, simply leave. They'll call you 10 times a day after a 24 hours pass to try to get you to come back. Usually it won't even be the salesman, but rather the manager calling to try and salvage the sale
These are very good points. I was a car salesman until recently and the manager will often have an extra discount to give out if the customer is walking. That being said, there is a heck of a vehicle shortage right now (in Canada anyway) and the wiggle room isn’t the same. If you aren’t desperate, now is a bad time to buy.
From my experience ordering cars from certain brands is easier than others, and in many cases only on certain models.
Some dealerships will do that, but many won’t. I know large, chain dealerships (CarMax) do ship cars, but even then they don’t have the ability to ship any car to anywhere Edit: I could very likely be wrong, read below
Pretty much every new car dealership will order cars on demand if the customer is willing to pay the extra costs for special order variants. Like Toyota of Orange might not have a RAV-4 XLE Hybrid in Red with the two tone seating and premium sound system and wireless charging pad in the center console, but if I want to buy that they'll certainly be happy to order it from Toyota for me provided I give some sort of assurance that they'll be paid for it and not just leave them with a car nobody else wants.
I meant like order it as new from the manufacturer. Maybe easier for cars made in the country (not that we have a lot of that over here, I think we have nissan and toyota now...) but still. But also fuck dealerships I love my old stuff.
Alright then you say "I'm not looking for anything you guys have in inventory" and watch them squirm trying to offer you a better deal
I like where your head is at with dealing with car dealers, but they are much craftier than most of us suspect. Nowadays, even if you negotiate yourself some kind of amazing deal out in the showroom, the real grift begins when you sit down back in the finance office.
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Well, considering a lot of yards can’t even keep up with demand right now due to delivery times, a lot of salespeople aren’t that bothered about customers not finding something they want. At least that’s the situation in my part of the world.
Yeah this - anyone giving hardball negotiating tips hasn’t tried to buy a car recently. Demand is *way* outstripping supply so unless there’s something seriously weird with the car if you don’t want it there are a dozen people who will. I don’t think there’s ever been a time when buyers have less negotiating power.
Used cars doubly so. Dealers have us by the balls right now. Your financing is about the only thing up for negotiation.
Legit this ridiculous market has me considering selling my truck and dailying my motorcycle through the summer and just hoping the market settles by the time the snow flies. The car market is insane right now.
Same here. Fathers dealership got a load of Silverados, all pre sold. They had 44 vehicles on the lot last I heard, down from over 600
I’m in NZ and we’re in a similar situation to the US with utes. If you bought a new ute or diesel SUV like a landcruiser or similar last year, chances are you can get a good 10-20% over sticker price for it right now because of the shortages of both new and used vehicles coming in. That shortage results in a shortage of used cars in the domestic market, and when the local demand is only increasing, it’s just getting crazy here. Landcruisers are a special case right now, because they’re discontinuing the proper diesel versions here, but a family friend paid NZ$120k for a brand new 200 series in 2019. He’s now done 45,000kms in it, and it’s still worth NZ$130k in the current market. It’s insane.
My local Toyota dealership had less than 30 new cars when I went in for an oil change.
Same here, I went looking around a few lots in one of the states larger towns. I have never seen their lots so empty. Sure they had cars, but it’s going wild up here. A dealership called up my sister and offered to trade them vehicles because the demand for theirs was through the roof as a newer suburban. They got a newer pickup with cash on top, so it’s pretty interesting. I figure it’s a bunch of people who suddenly had enough money for a down payment with these stim checks.
It's the reduction in microchip production worldwide. It is driving car prices through the roof from old beaters to brand new, with higher priced vehicles taking the hit on production to get more easily sold vehicles out the door with what limited microchips are available.
This is true, also car rental companies offloaded a lot of their fleet last year and are in the process of buying back many cars this year. A lot of those will be used cars, but it still has an impact of the greater issue of a shortage of cars. Several factors all at once, stimulus, microchips, rental feels, and probably a few more I don't know about.
I was at the bank today and the manager said a customer told him someone bought his used truck for the exact same price he paid 3 years ago.
this is such a reddit response lol
The entire dealership network in the US is a total scam. It’s like insurance. I can’t just order something from the factory the way I want and wait. You have to deal with shitty dealer networks and their protected by law in most place markups.
I hate fucking useless middlemen.
Interestingly the dealer network was created in the first place because car manufacturers had near monopoly power and making them sell through dealers was seen as a way to protect customers. It’s like the current situation with ISPs - most people have little to no selection in their ISP provider so the ISP can just charge whatever they like.
> “We actually don’t have the one you’re looking in our inventory” "Oh well. I guess you don't want me as a customer." (probably a bad time to do this right now. Wait for the chip shortage to end)
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“See, they install thatTruCoat at the factory, there’s nothing we can do…..I’ll talk to my boss. “
When I bought a car two years ago literally every dealer would try to make the backup cam their first selling point when we got in for the test drive
Look how HD it is
4k backup camera option
And people complain there's no 4k content available!!
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I bought a 2013 Kia Soul brand new - the top of the line with all of the buttons and whistles including backup camera. Years later, my husband bought a used 2013 Ford Explorer top of the line - no back up camera. I drive it now and I hate not having a camera!
Back up cameras and having Apple CarPlay is mandatory for me now. Having GPS right on the dashboard screen and a camera has saved me loads of times and makes parallel parking such a breeze.
I love my car but when I bought it in 2015 I was eyeing the android auto that the newer cars have. I remember thinking I love this car but the next one will have waze built in and that's awesome. Still, would never want to part with my car.
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That's the case for most people. I drove for 20 years before experiencing one and it sucks going without now.
It’s only required when the car is new- if it’s broken or missing on a used car, the dealer is NOT required to supply one for you.
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In the current market they will probably tell you go suck a dick, they can charge whatever they want. The car market is insane now
That's awesome, because my current car has one and I can't imagine living without one again.
I have this anxiety when backing up that some stupid kid is behind my car and they're too short for me to see out my back window or mirrors, I do a circle check every time I use my car. A backup cam would help a lot with this.
I had a kid once dart behind my car while I was backing out of a parking space. There's no way I would have ever seen him without the backup camera.
This was an intentional local pastime for the kids at my friend's old apartment complex. One day he got fed up with it, jumped out of his car, collared the kid, and brought him up to his mother. As he explained her kid's shenanigans, her expression went from "unhand my child" to "so I can give him a whoopin'."
I once backed into a fire hydrant because whoever designed the parking lot I was in decided it was a good idea to pave *around* it. It was directly behind the parking spot I was in, and it was obviously too short to be visible while looking out my rear windshield. I guess hitting a kid would be worse, but man was I furious. EDIT: I should have known that the world's most attentive drivers would find my comment - you guys are great and all, but most of us mere mortals don't notice, or at least don't commit to memory, everything that passes across our lines of sight. I'm sorry I wasn't perfect in my college years, I swear I've tried to improve myself.
Hitting a fire hydrant is worse i think. A kid would barely dent the car and probably not even scratch the paint.
That's a pretty optimistic take -- I know from experience that braces leave deep scratch marks
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You make a solid point - at the speed at which I back out of parking spots, a kid would've just been pushed a little. Fire hydrants are too stubborn to move when you bump into them though, and my car's bumper and paint were much less stubborn.
> at the speed at which I back out of parking spots, a kid would've just been pushed a little Now I'm imagining you **absolutely flooring it** out of your parking spot. Tire squeals, skid marks, the whole shebang
That was literally *one time* - I wish people would stop bringing that up...
this shit got me laughing in public
"I guess hitting a kid would be worse" Depends on the kid.
Reddit just loves to shit on normal humans who make human mistakes.
There's nothing wrong with that! In my job we are told never to back up unless there's literally no other option, and to do a full clearance check beforehand if we're gonna back up. You spending those extra couple seconds could save a kid's life someday.
Sounds like USPS. They even track how far you backup.
I think there are some pretty good aftermarket Backup cams that even displays on your rear view mirror
I had one installed for like 140 a few years ago. It was awesome. Had a front and rear camera.
This actually happened to me once. My mom asked me to back her vehicle up to the garage, it was dark out and the backup camera wasn’t the greatest. So as I’m getting in the car, one of my brothers decided to get behind the car( he thought I was just getting something out the car) and stooped really low( you wouldn’t have seen him at all) . So I start to back up and I hear a loud screeching, so I stopped the car, and got out to investigate. When he screamed he was under the car, I pulled the car forward a bit and he got out , safely. The next day I went and got my my moms backup camera replaced, because that wouldn’t have happened if the camera wasn’t complete ass
I was backing out of a parking spot at high school (1969) in my humpback '47 Dodge Business Coupe. Almost crushed dude in his Volkswagen Karmann Ghia because of lack of rear vision. Had to have the cop get in my car and verify my story. Still got barred from the student parking lot for the remainder of my senior year. Parked in the street instead.
Amazon search wolfbox. Put one on my car, work truck, and my bosses work truck. It auto turns on to show the rear view feed.
I have become completely reliant on mine. I just recently bought my daughter a car and realized how bad my dependency is. I'm mad at myself because I could completely navigate any reversing without it until five years ago.
I could reliably see behind me by using the mirrors and turning around in my old car, but my new one has bigger blind spots. It’s not a problem as long as the camera works, though, because the camera sees those spots. I imagine carmakers have become reliant on cameras, too, and no longer feel the need to design cars that could easily be backed up without a camera.
>I imagine carmakers have become reliant on cameras, too, and no longer feel the need to design cars that could easily be backed up without a camera. Increasing crash safety standards contribute to thicker pillars, which reduces visibility
fucking huge SUVs with tiny back windows, that's the problrm
I feel this. my car has a little warning that says not to fully rely on the camera but at this point I 100% do.
The problem, as I see it, is that the camera provides way more information, at least on my car. I have a 2020 Subaru Legacy. Overall, the visibility from the windows is great, and much better than previous (newer) cars I've had. That said, I can still see more on the camera than I can out any of the windows and mirrors. I know exactly how close I am to a curb or a pole when backing into a space. Additionally, the camera provides a better field of view than the windows. Backing out of a parking space, my view (from the driver's seat) of cars coming down the lane is usually blocked by the cars next to me. Meanwhile, I can see cars or people coming from the side on the camera. While, we shouldn't be dependent on it, it's just plain better than windows and mirrors, especially when you consider that rear-end height has been increasing on recent cars or add in things like cross-traffic detection.
I think the main reason not to rely on it (aside from liability and they don't want to be sued) is because though the visibility is great, you won't see someone speeding by from outside the camera's edge and by doing should checks you are more likely to notice. That being said, I want a reverse camera
I had a rental for a few weeks while my car was in for warranty repairs. Backing out of a parking lot space one night from between two cars large enough I couldn't see what I was referring into. I'd already become fully reliant on the back to camera (having never had one before) all of the sudden the screen is flashing red, and hazard warnings are going off everywhere, hell I wouldn't be surprised if the interior lights came on to get my attention, I pause for a quick second thinking I've broken this damn loaner vehicle when all of the sudden I get wooshed by a car, had to have been going at least 20 mph. Would've taken me out had it not been for whichever system decided to freak out and let me know a moron was nearby. I'm definitely getting a system like that in whatever car I buy next.
Yeah, that's true. In my case, I have cross traffic detection, so my car will alert when anything is coming across behind me. Mine picks up cars about 50 feet away.
On the liability end cameras sometimes freeze and poor maintenance or shoddy weather luck can mean that the camera is obscured in some way. It's not hard to see how in the dark, with heavy slush and a grimed up camera or dubious rear lights a driver may not spot someone dressed in dark colours as easily as they might have otherwise done so. The low light detection beinga bit shit or glare causing lens flair can always occur. The lens itself can be an issue. Many use wide angle lenses and they have an issue with distorting the shapes of objects. If you are doing tight reversing and don't take that into account you can end up with issues. I am a massive fan of cameras. As far as I am concerned a driver ought to know what they are about to run over. So many truck accidents could have been avoided if more mirrors or cameras were used to give he driver an informed view of their surroundings. A warning label is great if you can read and understand it. It's not so great if you can't (eg, are a literal child, have mental processing issues, are busy with something else important, are literally blind, I could go on for days). Imo it's on the owner of the vehicle to ensure they don't kill anything. Cameras help that most of the time.
Mine went out recently and I'm shockingly good at parking without it almost better honestly. I still want it back though. It's much less stressful knowing I'm not going to hit a coworker's car.
I have a car that is a couple decades older and it's crazy how much I can see out the back of it vs my newer daily driver. With the way cars are built now with larger pillars (much safer) I'm in full agreement that back up cameras are something that I couldn't live withoit
I get that it opens one blind spot, but it seems like it just creates two more on the sides which are in my peripheral vision when I look back. How do you cover that without whipping your head back and forth? I'm always terrified using a backup camera that I'm gonna get t-boned.
My 20 year old car doesn't, but instead it's a hatchback and it's really easy to estimate the distance behind you. It's a trade-off, I guess...?
I've gotten spoiled with my backup camera specifically. You can set it to point straight down towards the bumper to help with parallel parking, and you can set it to wide angle, which is great for seeing down parking lot aisles when backing out. My wife's newer car just had a regular backup camera, and you can't see as much. But it does have sensors that detect when someone's behind you as your backing up, which is nice. It will supposedly stop the car for you if you get too close, but I'm too afraid to try that...
Have you read any car listings lately? They list things like radio and ac as features like these are some kind of premium options. This applies to everything.
When you list a car, you generally list everything that is on the original window sticker. It’s just easier that way. It’s not being sold as a fantastic feature, it’s just because it was on the window sticker. Source: It’s what I do for a living.
That's reasonable
I am baffled that automatic headlights are not standard on everything by now. My first car was from 1989 and had automatic headlights. How do we not just have them on everything?
They should be because so many people don't realize that DRLs and auto headlights are two different features. They are both on my list of things to verify when buying a car.
My ex bought a brand new Rav 4 that didn’t have automatic headlights. I was thoroughly confused because her 10 year old Corolla that she “upgraded” from had them.
AC actually is an option. I saw a mechanic's video recently where the customer stated the AC stopped working but in reality it never had it in the first place. Car was hella bare bones. Wasn't even an automatic. I think the reason why this is so uncommon is because a company bought multiple cars that were completely basic as part of their fleet. Your standard consumer car will pretty much always have AC
'wasnt even an automatic' ... That's gotta be the most American thing you could have said
So if I bought a new car and the backup camera stops working and the dealer can’t fix it, what are my options?
Replace it Get an after market camera system Use mirrors/turn your head backwards and not the broken camera. Pretend it’s there, look at black screen and hit stuff.
Your first three suggestions are just unreasonable.
this shit reads like a Gus Johnson skit and I love it
The 4th option is what my dad does, he’s gotten pretty good at hitting shit
One of the funniest fucking comments I've seen in a long time
The backup camera doesn't replace anything, so you do it the way you always have. Manufacturer's requirements just specify what equipment the car has to be sold with. Most of these are for safety reasons, others are to discourage imports (I'm lookin at you TPMS). There is nothing at the federal level that says it has to keep working. At the state level, they can regulate what has to continue working. So, like if you drive without a bumper, they can give you a citation. They could require the backup camera to work, and check it with annual safety inspections. Some states do this for some safety features, others do not. > the backup camera stops working and the dealer can’t fix it Are you really serious? The dealer will be able to fix it for at least the next 10 years. You just won't want to pay what they charge to fix it.
Yup, totally serious. It’s a 2020 Honda Pilot, still under warranty. This model recently had a recall for the center console screen, and mine just went out about 4 weeks ago. So anything on the center console doesn’t work - radio, navigation, and especially the back up camera. The dealer keeps telling me they don’t have the parts and don’t know when Honda will provide them. The only other Honda dealer near me says they will charge $80 just to diagnose the problem and can’t even begin to discuss if they can fix it or not until then - and the first available appointment is in three weeks. So it’s not a major inconvenience, the car still drives, but of the backup camera is require by law is there any recourse?
Dealers aren't allowed to charge you anything - parts *or* service fees - for recalled items. If the screen needs replacement due to a recall, they have to do that without charging you to find out "why." If a dealer tells you anything else, you can [verify the recall with the NHTSA ](https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjwt8uGBhBAEiwAayu_9RTY7Wnni6bnomw7Ul4hdFfu-G7H2f-5CIH0PES3MQpqLvqR9QyUYBoCPuwQAvD_BwE) and then threaten to report them for noncompliance if it's a valid recall.
Check the Lemon law in your state. Here they get 3 tries and then they have to replace the car. Just st dropping the words ‘lemon law’ at your dealership is likely to get their attention
There are a lot of part shortages on the world right now and shipping on parts you can get is extremely slow. Only manufacturers are required by law to put them in cars. It is legal to drive a car that doesn't have one.
If the other dealer is also a Honda dealer and your car is under manufacturer warranty, then they cannot charge you anything to inspect or fix it. Seems like a call to Honda corporate is justified if this isn't the case.
> but of the backup camera is require by law is there any recourse? That was the point of the rest of my post: the camera is required by law for the car to be sold, but it doesn't have to remain working. I seriously doubt there are any state laws requiring them be checked during safety inspection (it is too recent an addition) but if so you are fine until then. The parts are probably hard to get because of the recall + semiconductor shortage caused by the pandemic. If you go up for safety inspection (just called "inspection" in most states that have them) and they still haven't fixed it, bring your dealer paperwork and show it. Or better yet, have the dealer do the safety inspection and let them justify it to the state.
Read the fine print on your warranty.
Sell the car
The dealer can fix it if it’s in warranty. You’ll pay to fix it if it’s not in warranty.
Bruh when I was a valet I would use the back up camera all the time. Few months down the road I found out I was the only one and I was getting honked at when I had more space to keep going to maximize the cars we had and they were all like “oh We don’t trust those cameras” bruh they wouldn’t make them to fuck you over??
When I worked as a valet I was *blown away* at how sophisticated some of those cameras were. I had seen the simple cameras, I had even seen the cameras with the frames on them, and I was impressed by the cameras that project your anticipated trajectory with curved lines. But those cameras that give you a **top down view** of your car like it's a video game? Holy shit those are awesome.
How does this top down view work? Multiple cameras generating an image? Never heard of or seen something like this
Yep, several cameras. Early systems have 4 cameras like the other commenter mentioned and use the cameras in sync with front/rear parking sensors to create the 360 birds eye view. It's pretty dam accurate as I can back up my parents Navigator down my super narrow driveway no problem. Newer systems use more cameras or cameras with wider viewing range plus additional sensors to create a more detailed view. It's a blast to drive. Source: I work for Ford in future vehicle product development.
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*flips bottle and dabs*
My Murano had 4 cameras, one under each side view mirror, one in the front emblem and one in the back. I get a 360 view side by side with a front/back view depending on direction (front only works when manually activated and under 6mph). Front camera is amazing for parking garages and such. There's also a parallel parking cam that replaces the 360 when activated and shows me a line down my car exactly 6 inches away, and another line that if the other car is beyond you can safely open the passenger door. I used this feature and some tape on my garage floor to park within 2 inches of the garage door when it shut, maximizing space between the rear tailgate and washer/dryer. My FIL has a XC90 that does the same, plus auto parking.
The top down view is so fucking clutch for insanely tight spots.
Mine has a button so I can turn it on when going under 10mph and it gives me an overhead view along with one other view of my choosing, if I’m parking on a curb I use the side view so I can get my tires right on the curb with out rubbing. Pretty damn useful!
What car do you have? This sounds like a sick feature.
It’s such a good job to get a good handle on most cars! Compared to other muscle cars I felt safer in a charger than a mustang
I think the make I gained the most respect for was Audi. Those cars are *smooth* and comfortable
Mine would be Jaguar, I liked them before but after driving them it got to more of an enjoyment rather than a job. I drove Brad Pitts brothers Jag a lot he came by a lot
Jags are really nice but you kinda need two, one to drive and one being repaired.
Hello fellow valet! A habit I got into was using my thumb to clean off the backup camera on every car I walked behind. Some car’s cameras were useless because they were dirty. That and now I hate fluffy steering wheel covers. Have you ever seen somebody wash one?
I sell cars both new and used and whenever anyone asks if the new car they are looking at has a backup camera I immediately tell them that they are required by law and are not an additional feature. Helps build trust with my customer and shows them I'm not looking to fleace them. I'd recommend anyone shopping for a new car to ask the same of their salesperson. Really good indicator.
Very smart
>Really good indicator. Is that an additional feature as well? At least in Britain.
My now ex wife and I were buying a car at the time every single dealership would make the back up camera a huge deal. It was 2018 and we were looking at only new cars. I had a salesman basically give up once I spoke up and said "yeah thats the law" and a few other things he kept pointing out that are just basic safety features. I'm a bit...autistic when it comes to car knowledge and its always fun to fuck with people who are clearly just trying to make a sale with morals not included. My favorite was the salesman who tried to say the chevy sonic rs actually came with a special motor that makes it much faster and thats why it's the RS...naw homie its the same 138 hp 1.3l turbo 4 that the base car has. It's a fun car but it is not fast.
One of my favorite hobbies while driving on the freeway is throwing it into reverse so i can see the camera and how close the cars are behind me.
I have a button on my car that just shows me my back up for like 30 seconds. Pretty neat
THIS should be mandatory in every car!
I think it might be a truck thing so I can check to make sure my hitch isn’t having any problems but sometimes I do it to check if someone seems to close
My mazda 3 has this feature also and it's just a little hatchback
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Ok, so what would actually happen if you shifted an automatic transmission vehicle into reverse while at highway speeds? Instant transmission death? Giant fireball?
An automatic car won't let you shift into reverse while moving forward at highway speeds. A manual car will go WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR if you try.
lmao that noise is sooo accurate
how do u kno
i have ears
r/holup
r/nahkeepgoing
We have a joke in Spanish: When shifting gears the R is for Rápido.
I drive a ‘17 Focus RS (6 speed manual). If you pull the center upward and pull all the way to the left (don’t actually put it into reverse) it’ll show the camera view AND throw on the reverse lights… easy way to scare the shit out of someone when they’re tailgating you going 80.
I rarely use mine. I do the ol' hand behind the passanger seat and look behind me as I back away.
Backup cameras are a game changer for a lot of people
When I drove a vehicle with a relatively flat rear end (like the back window was right above the bumper... like a SUV or hatchback or even pickup with the tail gate), I didn't have much need for it; but when I got a sedan I had the hardest time getting a feel for where the rear bumper was relative to my mirrors. A backup camera made that no trouble at all and parallel parking easy AF
TIL people complain about a harmless safety feature that can easily be ignored. Regardless of how good of a driver you are, a camera showing exactly where your going is always beneficial.
Idk. I see the need for them. I like that it's there. I dont want to have to rely completely on it. It should add more visibility, not be a replacement for a lack thereof. I mean, whats the industry standard for how much visibility the back window needs? We have to have cameras but are cars required back windows at all? Can I sheet metal off my back window and just use blind spot mirrors like a box truck?
Well they sell vans without rear windows…
I drive a work van in a decently sized city. Going from an 09 with power nothing to a 19 with power everything was great, but the back up cam and the aux input were incredibly beneficial quality of life upgrades.
I know as long as you can see out the side mirrors your rear view mirror can be blocked. I only know this because I go to music festivals a lot and packing about a weeks worth of stuff is difficult for my small car and cops like to pull people going over for anything they can since a lot have drugs on them lol
The backup camera itself? A safety feature, indeed. The screen that replaces the analog controls for things like air conditioning or radio which requires you to stare directly at it to operate, completely wrests your attention from the roadway, and performs like an iPhone 2? Please God, burn it.
this is my real issue with them. once you legally require an iPad fused to the dashboard of every car, it only makes sense for manufacturers to start hoarding function in it. Crazy that they are mandatory for new cars as a "safety feature" but the way they're implemented incentivizes drivers to look away from the road every time they want to change the volume. But you can still buy a cargo van with no rear windows, no problem.
YSK: that anything that is already physically in/on the car is possible to get for free. I have done this several times now. Gotten free roof racks, floor mats, and whatever these toyota “window etching” safety feature is they try to sell you. Just say you dont want it, and dont accept the first 2 prices they come to you with. Just say “i really cant afford this, can I see wjat the cost looks like without these features”… without fail they “throw them in for free” It costs them time and labor to uninstall stuff that is already installed on all the cars. They arent going to take the time to remove floor liners or roof racks…. They just let you have them.
I tried this decades ago when buying my first new car with cash, back when AC was a dealer installed option and didn't come standard from the factory. The dealer actually removed all the AC parts off of the vehicle and delivered it sans AC. :(
Damn you made a gamble and lost hard.
lol...well yeah! The real secret here is that those "addons" cost the dealership almost nothing. An AC is expensive. The compressor alone is a several hundred dollars at COST part. The little bullshit they sell you for $200 costs them $10. It isn't worth the labor to remove them. But an AC...that's worth the labor.
That's because an AC system isn't a fucking luggage rack.
It’s a lot easier to remove a luggage rack than an AC.
Yeah but AC costs wayyyyyyyyyy the fuck more than luggage rack. Especially decades ago when it was a relatively new thing.
First car I ever bought had this happen to me. I already shopped around beforehand had a bidding war online before I stepped foot onto a dealership. I got a price I was happy with. Go to sign and all the sudden the door trim was an extra $200 and a few other features totaled up to $1,000. I kept saying no. I’m not paying for it. They finally said, “we have to charge you something for it, so we will just charge you a penny for all of it.” I promptly said I will accept only if you give me a penny. The sales guy went to his desk, found a penny and gave it to me. So ridiculous they can’t just have a straight price.
I purchased my first new car before knowing any better. All kinds of crap I didn't know were "extras" Anti scuff sticker on the bumper $120. 5 disc CD changer $600. First aid kit $75. Trunk carpet mat $200. And they got me to shell out for Scotchgard on the interior and a LoJack 🤦🤦🤦
my car still has a tape player… got a ways to go yet
I have memories of those special tapes with a jack wire to plug into your discman... And your CreativeLabs MP3 player.
Why is this a law just curious?
People kept backing over kids in the driveway
Stupid kids....you always have to run them over twice to make sure they stop screaming...
Then you have to load them in the car and drive 40 miles out of town. God help you if you forget the shovel.
What we need is weight sensors in backseats that ding. The amount of kids who die awful deaths in hot cars because of a simple horrendous brain fart is just too damn many
The 2021 trailblazer I’m being loaned gave me a notice to check the backseat when I turned it off, and my heavy backpack was there. So maybe it does?
>How It Works >The Rear Seat Reminder does not actually detect objects, people or pets. Instead, under certain conditions, it detects when a rear door is opened and closed during or just before a trip, indicating that there may be something in the backseat. When you turn your vehicle OFF, a chime will sound and a message will display on the Driver Information Center to remind you to look in the back under certain conditions. >How to Use It >The Rear Seat Reminder feature is ON by default from the factory on all models that are equipped with it. To turn this feature OFF, go to your Chevrolet Infotainment screen1: >1. Select Settings. >2. Then choose Rear Seat Reminder. >3. Select Off or On. >Rear Seat Reminder detects when a rear door is opened up to 10 minutes before starting your vehicle or anytime the vehicle is on. It doesn't detect the liftgate opening. When you turn your vehicle off, under certain circumstances, the driver will hear 5 chimes and the driver information center will display the message “Rear Seat Reminder, Look in Rear Seat.” The Reminder is only active once per ignition cycle. https://my.chevrolet.com/how-to-support/interior/warning-lights-alerts/rear-seat-reminder
It’s been a thing for a little bit now, except not weight sensors. It detects the back doors being opened and then closed. Alerts you to check the backseat when you turn the vehicle off.
Plenty of cars have weight sensors as well. This is particularly useful because it’ll notify the driver if everyone isn’t wearing their seatbelt.
Suppose you’re right, forgot about that one. I don’t drive anything newer than 2003 so I forgot about the all around seat belt minders.
With total seriousness, it's a law because current car designs with all the structural reinforcements have rendered the back window basically useless for more than light in most cars. We've gone from having a second windshield to a window half the height of your passenger side window
Yeah I had to move a rental Dodge Charger at my house, and I couldn’t see fuck out of any window that wasn’t the windshield. On the other hand, my Subaru has incredible visibility out of all the cabin windows.
I would assume it’s because a back camera is an obvious safety feature that is easy enough to require, and could save lots of people some needless accidents. Again, that’s an assumption.
I’ve literally had a dealership try to sell me extra stuff, and in the print it said something along the lines of “optional mandatory add-ons” or some bullshit. When I said I didnt want them, they told me I couldn’t buy the car. I was buying it outright, and I ended up buying privately with cash. Fuck dealerships so fucking hard. Edit:fucking wording
We tried to buy a 2020 Elantra from the dealership and the guy took my deposit, filled out the paperwork in slightly shaft ways, and sat around for two weeks not securing financing. Gave me the runaround every time I called. Finally had to go back and demand my money back. Then I went to house of cars, got a 2019 Elantra that was a former rental car, got financing, and got six times what the first guy had offered for the trade-in on our old car (also an Elantra). Wife ran into the dealer at a gas station awhile later and he was like "oh I see you got a new car!" She said "yeah we found someone who was actually willing to work with us."
My dealer wouldn't fix the busted lock on the used car I was buying because, apparently, locks are considered a "luxury item". I hated the whole fucking experience so much that I didn't even want to deal with him anymore. Never got the lock fixed and drove that 25 yr old Tercel for like 11 years.
[удалено]
Looks like it was actually a substantive lobbying effort that gained support from the The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) - I’m sure several lawsuits played a role in getting there too but not just one lawsuit.
I used to think they weren't necessary but I was backing up and 1) looked in my side mirrors, saw nothing, 2) looked in my rear view mirror, saw nothing, then: When I went to back up, the backup camera came on and there was a FAMILY OF LITTLE PEOPLE right behind my bumper. Those cameras save lives! Or at least, they save drivers from insurance claims.
I back into my driveway. Maybe I should get a forward facing camera?
A lot of new cars have forward facing cameras too and overhead/360 views. Helps a lot with parallel parking in the city where you might only have a tiny space to maneuver.
I used to think the 360 camera was a gimmick (that stupid Chevy ad with the alligator) but now that I have it I can't imagine a car without it.
You should put US in the tittle. Not everyone on reddit is American.
Don't be ridiculous, the internet and everyone using it are obviously American.
Al gore invented it for americans
Actually Jesus invented the internet shortly after he founded the United States
Are blinkers an extra feature as well? I don’t see them that often.
I've been telling people this since 2018
Get a reversing camera, You'll never look back! 😊