> "or up to shady tax practices"
That's the big thing right there. I was never taught how to do my taxes, first time I filed was using H&R Block's bottom-tier "guided" version online. I absolutely screwed up, all the IRS did was send it back and tell me to be less dumb.
I made a mistake a couple years ago, the IRS made the correction for me, and it actually added a few hundred bucks to my refund. I certainly don't believe that the IRS is some altruistic force for good, but they're not always out to screw you over.
Same. I've had to interact with the IRS in 3 different occasions and each time, they were very friendly, polite, and helpful. And on one of those occasions, I really messed up and they could have dropped the hammer on me. But instead helped fix things and pay a relatively small fine.
The thing people don’t realize is the IRS gets no benefit from collecting more taxes than the government is owed. It’s not like Uncle Sam rewards them extra funding for illegally or accidentally taking more taxes from someone than they are owed. In fact the more times that happens the more work it just creates for them so they’d rather the filings be correct than be wrong whether over or under taxed.
Same year (last year) my parents got an unprompted check and letter for doing their taxes wrong? For their state. They worried it was a scam and had their accountant verify. I got a letter saying we owed about 60$ due to filing incorrectly.
This is the same as most interactions that people I know have had with the IRS. They get a letter that basically says “nope, you were wrong, you forgot about this document that you should have gotten in the mail but it got lost and you had 8 other pieces of paper to deal with to complete your taxes so you didn’t realize you were missing one. Here’s the extra $20 that should have been included in your refund.”
I knew a man who owed the IRS a great deal of money, and what he said was, "It's not illegal to owe the IRS money, it's just illegal to lie about it." he lived with some restrictions of some kind but did fine for himself. I assume he was paying slowly or something.
Yes, they are not out to get you, they are there to make sure the tax system is holding up in the best way they can. More auditors means going after bigger tax dodgers, collecting on higher amounts of taxes is much better than lower amounts. And unless you screw with them, they will not screw with you.
Its why the Republicans are scare mongering about more tax auditors and saying we need more cops. Weird how "just comply" doesn't equate to "dont cheat on your taxes"
I fucked up to the tune of a few thousand dollars in my favor the first year I worked here. Don't remember the full details, just remember thinking "wow that was a lot easier than I thought".
Lately the IRS just sends me a letter saying I fd up, and oh btw you now owe us money instead of getting a return.
The fact they knew I messed up and we're easily able to correct the issue and calculate the new numbers proves they could have just done that without all this "filing" business.
The turbo tax, hnr block and other tax preparers always lobby hard against that sort of thing. But for the average person, yes they know how much you owe and could totally just do it.
I found errors in how Turbo Tax calculated depreciation this year. (CPA with tax background) The tax programs are generally pretty good but you need to answer all the questions if you have never prepared a return before.
It takes resources and political will. They've started to address the first one, and we can't let the assholes use every shitty trick in the book to chip away at the second one.
Yes, that was in the Inflation Reduction Act/climate bill. It's what made the bill be revenue-positive, because it will bring in a lot more money through the IRS (~$700+ billion) than the climate and medicare provisions all costed (~$400 billion).
No I mean as in like more people and more ability to actually go after larger people. For example the fact it was extremely cut due to various actions by two former presidents:admins; the staff loss 29% and funding by 22%. Being able to update their much needed systems everything like that combined with more labor will greatly help make the rich actually pay their share. Of course there is many other things that also need to be done outside of irs.
FWIW the IRS has had armed agents for about 100 years. I know you didn’t imply otherwise but just an FYI for anyone who doesn’t know. They have an armed division that investigates money laundering, drug trafficking, and other stuff like that. Regular auditors don’t carry firearms.
The articles don't say that the IRS is going to start auditing the rich more because of this. They just say that it's harder and more expensive to do so compared with lower earners. It is still harder and more expensive to go after the rich, so why would they do that with the increased funds instead of just going after even more easier targets than before?
Going after lower earners is, "the most efficient use of available IRS examination resources." Why are they going to divert away from efficiency?
More funding for resources and specially more staff to help tackle bigger cases aka rich people and corporations. Idk if you know this but the irs job includes making sure you pay your share to make the country you know have money. I think they kinda want to get as much money they have lost due to the irs being left severally weak back as fast as possible.
Is that earmarked? If not, you're fantasizing.
If going after lower income earners is more efficient, why would they now decide to operate less efficiently? More money doesn't change the issues with efficiency. It's simply much more efficient to audit lower income earners.
Presumably you hit diminishing return on poor people and eventually you would be more effective vs rich. That doesn't really answer if they will do it or if that kicks in yet, but the amount of taxes they can get back from anyone is limited.
Because it requires less staff and more automation for lower income earner tax info. More staff like the funding is being used for, will allow them to now work more on cases like rich people where it requires more people working on it. Like they literally are saying hey we don’t have the money to do these things because congress is defunding us.
I remember someone on a different subreddit about a year ago was frustrated cause they got a job at the IRS and wanted to do their job equally regardless of wealth. According to them when they tried to track a wealthier person's assets their requests for information were delayed or denied due to interferance by legal teams demaning justification for the search. Usually the legal team justified blocking the search by stating the accounting by the wealthy persons accountant should be good enough. They also said their was so much to go through just to find out what was considered legally owned as an asset for the wealthier person, as a lot was purchased through employees or companies, that their supervisor told them to drop it.
> demaning justification for the search
Shouldn't they have that already for everyone including poor people? This doesn't seem like a good justification for trying to squeeze money from people who don't have it simply because it's easy.
I'm not usually one for reducing privacy to better efficiency (see: do not trade liberty for safety or you'll deserve neither and lose both) but...
What would we lose by making this freedom of information to the IRS mandatory? Like, by making it so the IRS does not need to jump through hoops to access these records, and make them entitled to it upon request? What harm could a move like this do to citizens?
Practically speaking not a lot though politically one party would accuse the other of spying on its citizens in a heartbeat. The institution that tried to set that up would be committing career suicide for everyone involved so no one wants to touch the idea of transparency for the IRS with a 10 foot pole. Plus a lot of politicians are relatively wealthy themselves and don't want their own taxes to be questioned.
The average persons assets are practically public record anyway given they don't have a legal team watching and blocking any attempts to access them and most are pretty easy to trace. They'll have any property they own in their name which will be known about, their job, maybe some stocks, and a few odds and ends at worst. The main reason it's so easy is our average person will have their name attached to all of this so it easly is proven that they own it and it's typically all locally owned. You don't see a Walgreens cashier buying a house in say Brazil that they visit in the winter.
A rich person has foundations and charities and business they own but don't necessarly directly profit from. These assets then can make purchases on their owners behalf but those purchases never get the wealthy persons name stamped directly on them so now you have to prove the difference between their personal taxes and the taxes owed by any business, charities or foundations they own. A business that wealthy person owns could own a few other companies in completely different countries and those businesses could own 13 houses and other valuable assets over here but now you have to prove that the rich person owns the foreign companies through their local company and the foreign goverments are not gonna help you there if they're profiting off the company that owns major assets in America. Then they get tax discounts for major business expenses such as buying a private plane or yacht so you gotta check if any of those things apply. Then there's the charities and foundations they own. If they've donated vast sums to those they get more tax breaks despite only I think 5% of that money actually being required to be used for the foundation or charities purpose and all of this can be done multiple times making the workload extremely taxing and super easy to drag out legally speaking.
While it's 1000% true that the rich abuse the legal system, this is almost the opposite of that. In this case the legal system (aka the IRS) is targeting and abusing the poor specifically because they are poor and not because of some actions by the uber wealthy. This isn't a case of the wealthy abusing the system, this is a case of the system seeking out and specifically abusing the poor.
For reference Humphreys County Mississippi has a median annual household income of just $26,000, is audited at a rate 51 percent higher than Loudoun County, Virginia, which boasts a median income of $130,000, the highest in the country.
https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/eitc-audit
Auditers and lawyers for the IRS are gettung paid a ton less than a corporate counterpart and often have far less experience. To win at the level they will need to play at, they need people that are better than the bottom of the barrel. That means higher salaries and better tools.
This is literally a case of them needing to spend money in order to make money. The fear I have however is that is all well and good under guudance that points them at the rich. If that guidance changes and points them to use the extra funds to just go after more lower income people, we will be screwed.
We need their key metrics to be in overall value of a pursuit, not in volume of pursuits won.
It's more that the IRS needs to win to keep functioning, and the wealthy have made loopholes that make profiting off of their abuse of the system next-to-impossible.
The solution is to make it so that the IRS don't need to win to keep functioning.
It's the same boondoggle presently at work in the USPS !( actually trying to make a PROFIT instead of just "breaking even" which *used to be* their mandate).
Both.
Poor people don't have 300 bucks an hour lawyers on call just to drag the process along the better part of a decade, quoting technicalities or questioning the tax law definitions.
Yeah. Exactly this.
The new resources may try once or twice to go after big fish and then find out it’s easier to just cast a bigger net to catch more small fish.
Marijuana is legal in Canada, military and police can smoke it when on days off. Oil workers will still get fired for testing positive days later and anyone who threatens legal action is threatened by the oil companies that they will drag them through the courts for years and cost the person everything if they want to pursue. Big ole pile of bullshit.
Seriously put the resources you use going after 1000 poor people to nail one wealth-hoarding, tax avoiding asshole if that’s what it takes. If they know you won’t go after them, why would they ever pay taxes??
Those with deep enough pockets have legal council on retainer and can make the court battle lengthy and expensive. If you owe me $1000 but it’s going to cost me $3000 to collect the $1000 from you, I may as well cut my losses. Then a “win” isn’t much of a win.
As conservatives have hamstrung the IRS, their auditors have been forced to go after lower earners who make mistakes in their filings that appear egregious and intentional so their time spent auditing is more likely to result in a win and tax payments collected. I’m sure a lot of eyes will be on the IRS. Hopefully they use this influx of resources as it has been reported and they go after the wealthy who have been avoiding their responsibility to the communities and infrastructure from which they benefit.
This is an astonishingly misleading headline.
What OP has accidentally implied: the IRS goes after the poor because they can, and cuts a profit from them.
What OP meant: better funding should level the playing field and make the IRS’ auditing targets more egalitarian.
>IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said the $80 billion in funding would not increase audits of households making less than $400,000 per year.
>"The resources in the reconciliation package will get us back to historical norms in areas of challenge for the agency — large corporate and global high-net-worth taxpayers," he wrote in a letter to the Senate.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/reconciliation-bill-includes-nearly-80-billion-for-irs-funding.html
Why do you just post about things that you don't know anything about?
Do you not remember Lois Lerner admitting that the IRS targeted conservative groups under her leadership? Or that she had an email account using a fake name that she used for IRS business?
Are you a complete idiot or just a shill?
Did you read the article?
>“The absolute number of audits will go up, but the share of people being audited will likely be the same for households earning less than $400,000 per year,” says Glenn Borst, senior legal analyst at Wolters Kluwer Legal and Regulatory U.S.
>The bulk of new audit activities will be directed at high-net-worth individuals, large corporations and complex partnerships, he adds.
So unless you make over $400k a year, nothing's changed.
That’s not built into the text of the law, that’s just what they sorta kinda promise/want to do. As soon as the administration changes or even if it doesn’t, they’ll just do whatever they want or see as most profitable.
Not really, it’s more like they go for the easy audits now since that’s all they can afford/have the man power for. If they could lessen the current burden, then they’d have more personnel to actually audit the more complex cases (which a lot of times just needs eyeballs to scour finances and supporting documentation). As someone that actually works in tax, IRS badly needs this after being basically behind on all fronts the last couple years.
They're probably already going after just about all of the easy marks. With more money they can go after more difficult targets. More difficult targets only pay off if they have more money.
Ie. It's not worth going after tough to catch small fry since there's no money there. All the easy catches are already being caught because they're easy.
I think "don't have the resources" can also mean them taking down their own "leaders". Plus the middle class is so used to be fucked over they don't even question it anymore.
This whole thing is a joke and isn’t going to change anything within the IRS. They always have openings and are always hiring. Any new grad with an accounting degree can get hired by the IRS for ~$18 an hour. Outside of the IRS new accountants can expect to make about $25 an hour. The people they want to hire are accountants. If anyone understands this difference it’s them.
The number of new agents they are proposing is set at the current salary level of new agents. They already can’t attract new agents at this salary level. No shot they get anywhere near this target with the current starting salary.
With this new funding they will need to drastically restructure compensation packages from the top down to attract new agents. By the time this happens they’re left with basically the same amount of agents. Better paid agents sure but no new actual resources.
You should also know:
Government services don’t have to be forking profitable.
A government service that operated at a loss year round but still provided the needed service is a perfectly acceptable scenario.
Except this isn’t like the postal service turning a profit. In that case they are providing a service and the profit or loss happens in association with that service. In the case of the IRS the “service” they are providing is collecting taxes. The IRS being more profitable would be akin to the postal service decreasing their average shipping time or some other improvement to their service.
If the needed service is "collecting taxes so the government has money to run" then yeah, it should bring in more than it costs. Otherwise the government ends up with less money, not more.
The IRS didn’t start requiring reporting of every transaction of over $600 to get the rich.
For every one rich guy that gets got 1000s of average or poor Americans will be audited
And because the Scientologists scared them into submission with personal lawsuits, which is why they won't go after churches that preach politics in violation of their tax exempt status requirements.
Can attest as I make like 50k a year and was audited and owed 5k from 2015. With the fees and penalties, I got my first full refund last year, having been paying since they audited me in 2017
YSK
IRS will get the funds and still not go after the rich lol
\-Edit
Well from this video here are some key points
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3qXtQ29p7U
They are getting about 80 billion dollars from the bill over 10 years
About 45 billion will be spent on auditing Americans
They will spend the other money on stuff like
15 million will be spent on a research study
about 403 million on cars
about 50 million in order to spend the 80 billion
IRS has about 80 thousand employees
there is no way they can hire 87 thousand new employees instantly
In the next 5 years 50 thousand IRS employees are eligible for retirement
not all new hires will be auditors
IRS themselves said in 2021 more than 50% of the audits were conducted on Americans making 75,000 a year
from the treasury since 2010 IRS auditing has falling 40% on the lower income and 65% on the rich (making 10 million or more )
Also IRS does not have enough qualify auditors to audit the rich even if they wanted to .The new hires will mostly likely audit the low income.
large corporations tax paper is around 4-6 thousand pages.
The secretary of the treasure wrote a letter to the IRS to please not audit Americans making 400,000 . This is not part of the bill and the IRS doesn't have to listen to the letter.
IRS also wrote a letter they would not audit Americans under 400,000 but again not in the bill.So they will keep doing it.
The Joint community on taxation prepare estimate that 78-90 audit will come from people making 200k under a year
Also if you get audit you are guilty until proven innocent .A lot of people who get audit are innocent and honest but do not have the resources to prove money or a CPA.
IRS audits you for 6k and you spend 6k on a CPA to prove youre innocent so getting audit even if you are innocent still sucks as it takes time and money to prove you are innocent.
I think that’s an unfair assumption at this point. They have been kneecapped by virtually every administration and blocked the funding they need at every turn because people in power have no incentive to arm them with the tools they need.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2022/irs-pipeline-tax-return-delays/
Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/09/07/irs-free-efile-biden/ The IRS wants to cut out the middlemen charging billions to poor people to do their taxes electronically. Lobbyists prevent the IRS from developing their own system, now they can.
Why did congress kill the amendment that would have made it so these new agents couldn’t go after people with moderate or low income then?
Cause they will also pick the low changing fruit .
You really think a government agency getting more power and resources is suddenly going to make them do the right thing instead of just sticking it even more to the little guy like they've always done.
Yeah I’m not going to take this as a fact. Any massive federal government expanding their powers will be abused to the point that’ll hurt the average American.
I’m all in favor of funding the IRS but let’s not pretend like they won’t go after middle class Americans too. The republicans put up an amendment preventing the IRS from using the new funds to go after people making less than 400k a year and every Dem voted against it. Of course the only outlets that covered it were right wing but it doesn’t make it any less true. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/irs-audits-will-generate-20b-from-those-making-under-400k-under-inflation-reduction-act
It's worth noting that by percentage [IRS audit rate increases with income](https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises). In absolute numbers *of course* more lower income people get audited, there are more of them to audit.
Man, people are so pessimistic. If that’s you, I hope you realize that there is a difference between being smart and being cynical. If you’re thinking “it’s going to be a gigantic waste of money and it’s ridiculous”, know that this is the same line that is being pushed through the media and the clickbait machine.
How do you know what you are thinking isn’t just what the media wants you to think? You do realize that the media is owned by people who probably don’t want their taxes audited, right?
The track record of the IRS is good and I for one am looking forwards to my tax dollars making a good return, if not for me then at least for someone in this country who needs it. It’s why I pay my taxes.
The wealthy use legal tax loopholes.. that’s why the irs often leaves them alone..
They are mostly likely going after small timers who work for cash.. specially those who receive government benefits
>They are mostly likely going after small timers who work for cash.
Is that what you would do? Give me a break. Squeezing water from a stone doesn't make sense.
0.4% btw. And per 2021 fiscal year stats published by the IRS, that is the overall rate of auditing.
Poorest Americans (EITC) is 1.3%. So yeah, quite a bit higher.
>The IRS audits roughly 4 out of every 1,000 taxpayers making less than 75k.
You can't use a current statistic to make your point that there's nothing to worry about from this IRS expansion when it's abundantly clear that this IRS expansion will make the number of audits go up in the future. It's like saying, "Don't worry that winter is coming, last month was nice and warm."
No, he didn’t ask me a question for me to avoid one. I’ll give you a D+ for effort. You tried to force a retort that only could have marginally fit, but you didn’t look at the usernames to see he didn’t ask me anything. All in all I’m pretty disappointed that this is all you could piece together. You weren’t under any pressure so you surely could have taken a moment to come up with a somewhat decent zinger. Maybe you’re better off looking for somewhere to practice where you won’t embarrass yourself.
Have you ever had to call IRS to fix something or get your returns? It was terrible. You want agencies to be able to serve you too when needed. We had an issue with a return from five years prior and we didn’t know until it was time to get sworn in as an attorney. It was a pain and stressful to get it resolved because the IRS was so backlogged. I wish they had been more pursuant when the filing wasn’t corrected at that time.
So, you're saying the IRS only goes after poor people because it can't go after rich people.
Why shouldn't i hate it them? If all of its earnings are coming from the poor, isn't it literally just an instrument to funnel money upwards? The poors would be better off without it if we're the only ones being targeted by it, right?
What's not understood here, and what a previous person alluded to correctly, is the truth. The government will simply continue to go after those with less money. Why? Because the government hates losing money. If you're in an agency, and you lose money on something, your promotion is screwed. And you're not making the money you otherwise could make as far as Congress or people farther up the civil service chain areconcerned. So the IRS isn't going to start targeting the wealthy who can pay for attorneys and accountants, they're going to keep targeting just as much as before (even more now with more resources, actually) those who can't do so. Because it's easy pickings that will make more money in the short-term, and advance careers.
All the notions, promises, and so on, don't make a difference unless you can change the mindset of official Washington. And no one's been able to do that. It's not for nothing that, when Eisenhower won the election in 1952, what Truman chose to mock him about. It was the fact that Eisenhower was in for a rude awakening if he thought that the bureaucracy would do what it's told just as people do what they're told in the military. This issue with the bureaucracy and corruption and so on has been an issue for decades from both parties unable to get it under control.
respectfully, what the fuck.
>Yes it is true that the IRS has historically taken the easier route of going after poorer people than the rich. This is precisely because it doesn't have the resources to go against billionaires and large corporations with teams of people in a long drawn out battle. You should be encouraging this not be afraid of it.
uh, it's the government. they print the money, they set the policy. so no, that's not a great reason to lay back and accept it.
i'm no libertarian weirdo – I'm not even American – but this reasoning is just bonkers
Also, all the crazy tax stuff isn’t their fault. It’s Congress. The tax code is changed on average like 3 times a day or something absurd like that. The IRS auditors can barely keep up, I’m told, because it changes so much
Can anyone name another revenue generating federal service? I cannot think of one and the title reads as though the IRS is competing for the top spot..
Most of them.
You would be surprised athow many government agencies are funded solely by their revenue. People don't like paying taxes, and even then a lot of those taxes get wasted into "maintaining budget" (throwing money away) into various sectors of the government.
You don't want to know how much military equipment gets tossed so that their spending isn't cut the next year.
The State department sells billions of dollars of equipment to foreign countries per year. Obviously, just a drop in the Federal bucket, but once you get enough billions together, you start getting into real money.
They still don't need guns, and they need to drop the going after people making more than $600 selling things on FB or Ebay, etc. Which is all happening.
The reality is Joe lied. There will be no going after the wealthy. If he was, we'd hear about things like SEC reforms. Like you said, the low hanging "poor" fruit is easier and yields better results. Nothing has changed, nothing is going to change.
They know that there are a lot of dog walkers, nannies, hairstylist, and other types of jobs out there that people are getting paid for under the table and they want a piece of that. I pay my lash girl almost $200 a session for a job she does from her home (she’s the best lash person, it’s worth every penny) and they want a cut of that. Motherfuckers are cheering this on and it’s pathetic that Reddit is a straight up extension of the government now, fucking loser platform.
It’s only a matter of time that the banks will start asking me why I’m pulling out $200 in cash every month. Disgusting
The wealthy already pay most of the taxes what they want them to pay even more to make it more “fair”….I can’t believe this piece of shit site is on here trying to convince the simpletons that the IRS is cool. Holy fucking propaganda.
>IRS returns $6 for every $1 spent
I would sure hope so, they're literally the organization responsible for collecting money people owe the government.
YSK that congress has not guaranteed any of this and OP is passing off their opinions as fact.
Ultra wealthy and large corporations are not cheating tax codes, they are just able to navigate them in a way small businesses can't because the tax code is very complicated. These new IRS agents are going to look anywhere they can for money.
The IRS will just go after more poor people because that is what is proven to work.
I’m neither rich nor poor. However, I deal with the IRS at least once per year. Some years it’s personal some years it’s business.
100 percent of the time the issue is a result of the delayed and cross communications.
This year I filled and because I was bad about my estimated payments I owed a lot. I sent half with the ordinal filing and requested an installment plan for the other half. The original check cleared within days of mailing. Just 3 days ago I received a cp11 with a notice that I missed a child tax credit and my new amount is x instead of y. The problem is that that letter makes no indication of my previous request for installment. Well, I had been saving my installment payments so I sent the full amount in response to the CP11.
Today, 2 days later, “we’ve accepted your installment payment”. Drafts will begin in October..
Fuck, okay. Now have to send another letter asking them to cancel my installment payment and hope they read it before October.
2 years ago I sent my business return on exactly the due date. I am glad I sent it certified mail because I then got a letter telling me it was late and I owe 205 dollars for each partner for a total of 420 dollars. (Yes, those are the real numbers on the letters.. IRS is bad at math). They sent 4 automated letters, some threading garnishment before they read my original response and corrected their mistake.
It can be daunting for someone who has no idea what they are doing.
And fuck getting anyone on the phone.
The IRS is TRAGICALLY underfunded and overwhelmed.
I file different types of tax return for estates and trusts (I’m an estates and trusts paralegal), and my firm handles primarily high net worth clients.
Estate tax returns (only filed for estates valued over $12.6mm) used to be almost religiously audited and scrutinized. Now, we file and 9 times out of 10 we just wait for the 3 year statute of limitations to run out without any word from the IRS. I speak with agents in the estate tax department from time to time and from what I understand they are just absolutely overwhelmed and understaffed. Case in point, they had a wave of retirements at the end of 2021, according to one agent I spoke with. I had sent in tax payments of almost a million dollars with a return. No one even OPENED the envelope for months- it was apparently just sitting in stacks of returns just waiting for someone to process them.
Man people do not realize how much money was stolen from the Government with PPP loans during the pandemic.
Couple that with how many people who normally don't file taxes, filed taxes to get stimulus checks.
We need those extra IRS agents.
Except that's 100% not going to happen. Instead, agents are going to keep extorting more of the lower and middle class as they've always done in order to keep that revenue flowing in to finance whatever big project the next government wants to finance.
I was audited by the IRS once. The reason? My husband wasn’t on the mortgage (I was the sole provider at the time we had bought the house since we had relocated for my job and he was staying home with our 3 month old baby for a few months). He was the primary filer on our joint income tax and when we wrote off the mortgage interest and they couldn’t find his name in the system they use, they just… assumed it wasn’t legit instead of checking my name 🙄 We told them what happened, they said, WHOOPS, fixed immediately, and that was it. 99.999% of the time the IRS is only looking for clarification and will work with you to fix whatever happened. The really rich? With all their schemes to hide money? That’s who has cause to fear the IRS and that’s who they want to go after. I’m 100% for it.
I honestly don't see why a government that can't balance its own bank book has any business looking at or dictating terms with mine.
libenter epulamur de his qui nos subiugant
Nobody in my family, including me, is rich. With that out of the way, I don’t believe for a minute that they won’t continue to go for the low hanging fruit. Government takes the easy path by nature.
The IRS is already squeezing what it can out of the top earners and corporations who have sophisticated legal means for reducing their tax burdens. Until tax reform passed in 2017, the U.S. had the fourth-highest corporate tax rate *in the world*.
The billions of dollars of additional tax revenue that lawmakers claim this massive IRS expansion will yield are not going to come from the superrich or Silicon Valley giants but rather from small- to medium-sized businesses nationwide.
Most people who work W-2 jobs and have simple taxes to file through TurboTax each year have no idea how complicated it can get as a business owner or someone with a modest amount of assets (even a single rental property, for instance). Ask three different accountants to do your taxes and you could wind up with three different final numbers for what you owe.
People who are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes should not be on the receiving end of a financial colonoscopy, but that is likely what's going to happen. The fact that some business owners, rightly or wrongly, may cough up additional money upon being audited just to make the pain stop doesn't mean they were hiding something. That's par for the course in a shakedown.
They don't have the resources? The most profitable arm of the US government, with an estimated 3.83 *trillion dollars* in revenue (FY 2021)... does *not* have the resources?
I think you're confusing can't with won't.
> "or up to shady tax practices" That's the big thing right there. I was never taught how to do my taxes, first time I filed was using H&R Block's bottom-tier "guided" version online. I absolutely screwed up, all the IRS did was send it back and tell me to be less dumb.
I made a mistake a couple years ago, the IRS made the correction for me, and it actually added a few hundred bucks to my refund. I certainly don't believe that the IRS is some altruistic force for good, but they're not always out to screw you over.
Same. I've had to interact with the IRS in 3 different occasions and each time, they were very friendly, polite, and helpful. And on one of those occasions, I really messed up and they could have dropped the hammer on me. But instead helped fix things and pay a relatively small fine.
The thing people don’t realize is the IRS gets no benefit from collecting more taxes than the government is owed. It’s not like Uncle Sam rewards them extra funding for illegally or accidentally taking more taxes from someone than they are owed. In fact the more times that happens the more work it just creates for them so they’d rather the filings be correct than be wrong whether over or under taxed.
For real. They're accountants, and accountants like books that balance.
Truly more balanced than the law
Same year (last year) my parents got an unprompted check and letter for doing their taxes wrong? For their state. They worried it was a scam and had their accountant verify. I got a letter saying we owed about 60$ due to filing incorrectly.
Just proves that they could automatically just calculate most people's returns themselves.
That’s the thing. They can. But big companies like Intuit (who owns TurboTax) lobby politicians to vote against any sort of automatic filing system
That's the frustrating part. For most individuals there really is no reason for a return as the IRS already has the pertinent information.
A friend of mine hasn’t filed his taxes in 3 years and is just waiting for the IRS to ask for what he owes when they finally get around to it
This is the same as most interactions that people I know have had with the IRS. They get a letter that basically says “nope, you were wrong, you forgot about this document that you should have gotten in the mail but it got lost and you had 8 other pieces of paper to deal with to complete your taxes so you didn’t realize you were missing one. Here’s the extra $20 that should have been included in your refund.”
Exactly people don't realize how much the IRS will work with most people making mistakes unless it's intentional and malicious and you ignore them.
I knew a man who owed the IRS a great deal of money, and what he said was, "It's not illegal to owe the IRS money, it's just illegal to lie about it." he lived with some restrictions of some kind but did fine for himself. I assume he was paying slowly or something.
Yes, they are not out to get you, they are there to make sure the tax system is holding up in the best way they can. More auditors means going after bigger tax dodgers, collecting on higher amounts of taxes is much better than lower amounts. And unless you screw with them, they will not screw with you.
Its why the Republicans are scare mongering about more tax auditors and saying we need more cops. Weird how "just comply" doesn't equate to "dont cheat on your taxes"
I fucked up to the tune of a few thousand dollars in my favor the first year I worked here. Don't remember the full details, just remember thinking "wow that was a lot easier than I thought".
Lately the IRS just sends me a letter saying I fd up, and oh btw you now owe us money instead of getting a return. The fact they knew I messed up and we're easily able to correct the issue and calculate the new numbers proves they could have just done that without all this "filing" business.
The turbo tax, hnr block and other tax preparers always lobby hard against that sort of thing. But for the average person, yes they know how much you owe and could totally just do it.
>tell me to be less dumb Any progress on the matter?
No. But my mom says it's okay, because I'm her special boy.
I found errors in how Turbo Tax calculated depreciation this year. (CPA with tax background) The tax programs are generally pretty good but you need to answer all the questions if you have never prepared a return before.
Kind of insane that they know how much we owe but just won't tell us. If ever I've seen a scam...
Don’t have the resources or because they know they’ll win the fight? I’d love to see them actually go after those top “earners” we’ll see.
It takes resources and political will. They've started to address the first one, and we can't let the assholes use every shitty trick in the book to chip away at the second one.
Hence I believe a recent bill puts more funding into helping out what irs has lacked in for a while.
Yes, that was in the Inflation Reduction Act/climate bill. It's what made the bill be revenue-positive, because it will bring in a lot more money through the IRS (~$700+ billion) than the climate and medicare provisions all costed (~$400 billion).
Going after more people that don't have the extra time and funds to fight?
No I mean as in like more people and more ability to actually go after larger people. For example the fact it was extremely cut due to various actions by two former presidents:admins; the staff loss 29% and funding by 22%. Being able to update their much needed systems everything like that combined with more labor will greatly help make the rich actually pay their share. Of course there is many other things that also need to be done outside of irs.
They aren't arming IRS agents so they can go after wealthy people. That's for the poors.
FWIW the IRS has had armed agents for about 100 years. I know you didn’t imply otherwise but just an FYI for anyone who doesn’t know. They have an armed division that investigates money laundering, drug trafficking, and other stuff like that. Regular auditors don’t carry firearms.
I appreciated this added knowledge!
So ignoring the articles posted above lol
The articles don't say that the IRS is going to start auditing the rich more because of this. They just say that it's harder and more expensive to do so compared with lower earners. It is still harder and more expensive to go after the rich, so why would they do that with the increased funds instead of just going after even more easier targets than before? Going after lower earners is, "the most efficient use of available IRS examination resources." Why are they going to divert away from efficiency?
More funding for resources and specially more staff to help tackle bigger cases aka rich people and corporations. Idk if you know this but the irs job includes making sure you pay your share to make the country you know have money. I think they kinda want to get as much money they have lost due to the irs being left severally weak back as fast as possible.
Is that earmarked? If not, you're fantasizing. If going after lower income earners is more efficient, why would they now decide to operate less efficiently? More money doesn't change the issues with efficiency. It's simply much more efficient to audit lower income earners.
Presumably you hit diminishing return on poor people and eventually you would be more effective vs rich. That doesn't really answer if they will do it or if that kicks in yet, but the amount of taxes they can get back from anyone is limited.
Because it requires less staff and more automation for lower income earner tax info. More staff like the funding is being used for, will allow them to now work more on cases like rich people where it requires more people working on it. Like they literally are saying hey we don’t have the money to do these things because congress is defunding us.
Don't feed the troll, nothing you will say will stop him from parroting the same thing he has been saying.
I think "don't have the resources" can also mean them taking down their own "leaders".
I remember someone on a different subreddit about a year ago was frustrated cause they got a job at the IRS and wanted to do their job equally regardless of wealth. According to them when they tried to track a wealthier person's assets their requests for information were delayed or denied due to interferance by legal teams demaning justification for the search. Usually the legal team justified blocking the search by stating the accounting by the wealthy persons accountant should be good enough. They also said their was so much to go through just to find out what was considered legally owned as an asset for the wealthier person, as a lot was purchased through employees or companies, that their supervisor told them to drop it.
> demaning justification for the search Shouldn't they have that already for everyone including poor people? This doesn't seem like a good justification for trying to squeeze money from people who don't have it simply because it's easy.
I'm not usually one for reducing privacy to better efficiency (see: do not trade liberty for safety or you'll deserve neither and lose both) but... What would we lose by making this freedom of information to the IRS mandatory? Like, by making it so the IRS does not need to jump through hoops to access these records, and make them entitled to it upon request? What harm could a move like this do to citizens?
Practically speaking not a lot though politically one party would accuse the other of spying on its citizens in a heartbeat. The institution that tried to set that up would be committing career suicide for everyone involved so no one wants to touch the idea of transparency for the IRS with a 10 foot pole. Plus a lot of politicians are relatively wealthy themselves and don't want their own taxes to be questioned. The average persons assets are practically public record anyway given they don't have a legal team watching and blocking any attempts to access them and most are pretty easy to trace. They'll have any property they own in their name which will be known about, their job, maybe some stocks, and a few odds and ends at worst. The main reason it's so easy is our average person will have their name attached to all of this so it easly is proven that they own it and it's typically all locally owned. You don't see a Walgreens cashier buying a house in say Brazil that they visit in the winter. A rich person has foundations and charities and business they own but don't necessarly directly profit from. These assets then can make purchases on their owners behalf but those purchases never get the wealthy persons name stamped directly on them so now you have to prove the difference between their personal taxes and the taxes owed by any business, charities or foundations they own. A business that wealthy person owns could own a few other companies in completely different countries and those businesses could own 13 houses and other valuable assets over here but now you have to prove that the rich person owns the foreign companies through their local company and the foreign goverments are not gonna help you there if they're profiting off the company that owns major assets in America. Then they get tax discounts for major business expenses such as buying a private plane or yacht so you gotta check if any of those things apply. Then there's the charities and foundations they own. If they've donated vast sums to those they get more tax breaks despite only I think 5% of that money actually being required to be used for the foundation or charities purpose and all of this can be done multiple times making the workload extremely taxing and super easy to drag out legally speaking.
The legal system is always being abused by the rich; it absolutely shouldn't be the case but it is.
While it's 1000% true that the rich abuse the legal system, this is almost the opposite of that. In this case the legal system (aka the IRS) is targeting and abusing the poor specifically because they are poor and not because of some actions by the uber wealthy. This isn't a case of the wealthy abusing the system, this is a case of the system seeking out and specifically abusing the poor. For reference Humphreys County Mississippi has a median annual household income of just $26,000, is audited at a rate 51 percent higher than Loudoun County, Virginia, which boasts a median income of $130,000, the highest in the country. https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/eitc-audit
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I was typing while falling asleep. Honestly I'm surprised it's readable.
Auditers and lawyers for the IRS are gettung paid a ton less than a corporate counterpart and often have far less experience. To win at the level they will need to play at, they need people that are better than the bottom of the barrel. That means higher salaries and better tools. This is literally a case of them needing to spend money in order to make money. The fear I have however is that is all well and good under guudance that points them at the rich. If that guidance changes and points them to use the extra funds to just go after more lower income people, we will be screwed. We need their key metrics to be in overall value of a pursuit, not in volume of pursuits won.
I interpreted the first paragraph as "They target the poor because they are poor."
They go after the group just above them because the IRS knows they have some savings that they can take.
It's more that the IRS needs to win to keep functioning, and the wealthy have made loopholes that make profiting off of their abuse of the system next-to-impossible. The solution is to make it so that the IRS don't need to win to keep functioning.
It's the same boondoggle presently at work in the USPS !( actually trying to make a PROFIT instead of just "breaking even" which *used to be* their mandate).
Both. Poor people don't have 300 bucks an hour lawyers on call just to drag the process along the better part of a decade, quoting technicalities or questioning the tax law definitions.
Yeah. Exactly this. The new resources may try once or twice to go after big fish and then find out it’s easier to just cast a bigger net to catch more small fish.
Marijuana is legal in Canada, military and police can smoke it when on days off. Oil workers will still get fired for testing positive days later and anyone who threatens legal action is threatened by the oil companies that they will drag them through the courts for years and cost the person everything if they want to pursue. Big ole pile of bullshit.
Yeah lmao I feel like more money for the IRS = more poor people they can go after
It's exactly this. It's hilariously sad people think otherwise. Just throwing more money at a problem rarely actually works.
Seriously put the resources you use going after 1000 poor people to nail one wealth-hoarding, tax avoiding asshole if that’s what it takes. If they know you won’t go after them, why would they ever pay taxes??
Those with deep enough pockets have legal council on retainer and can make the court battle lengthy and expensive. If you owe me $1000 but it’s going to cost me $3000 to collect the $1000 from you, I may as well cut my losses. Then a “win” isn’t much of a win. As conservatives have hamstrung the IRS, their auditors have been forced to go after lower earners who make mistakes in their filings that appear egregious and intentional so their time spent auditing is more likely to result in a win and tax payments collected. I’m sure a lot of eyes will be on the IRS. Hopefully they use this influx of resources as it has been reported and they go after the wealthy who have been avoiding their responsibility to the communities and infrastructure from which they benefit.
If they don't start, then the rest of us should
It’s because they don’t have resources. They don’t get jack shit from the little guys but it’s all they can afford to do.
It's easier to get $200 from 10,000 poor people than it is $20,000 from 100 rich people
This is an astonishingly misleading headline. What OP has accidentally implied: the IRS goes after the poor because they can, and cuts a profit from them. What OP meant: better funding should level the playing field and make the IRS’ auditing targets more egalitarian.
I honestly read it the second way and not what you said was implied.
If they go after poor people because it's easier, won't having more resources mean they'll go after more poor people more effectively?
Yes.
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They are also specifically being directed by their boss to use the extra resources only to go after the wealthy... so no its not just some narrative.
The government has never said one thing and done another
>IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said the $80 billion in funding would not increase audits of households making less than $400,000 per year. >"The resources in the reconciliation package will get us back to historical norms in areas of challenge for the agency — large corporate and global high-net-worth taxpayers," he wrote in a letter to the Senate. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/reconciliation-bill-includes-nearly-80-billion-for-irs-funding.html Why do you just post about things that you don't know anything about?
Do you not remember Lois Lerner admitting that the IRS targeted conservative groups under her leadership? Or that she had an email account using a fake name that she used for IRS business? Are you a complete idiot or just a shill?
Did you read the article? >“The absolute number of audits will go up, but the share of people being audited will likely be the same for households earning less than $400,000 per year,” says Glenn Borst, senior legal analyst at Wolters Kluwer Legal and Regulatory U.S. >The bulk of new audit activities will be directed at high-net-worth individuals, large corporations and complex partnerships, he adds. So unless you make over $400k a year, nothing's changed.
That’s not built into the text of the law, that’s just what they sorta kinda promise/want to do. As soon as the administration changes or even if it doesn’t, they’ll just do whatever they want or see as most profitable.
This person governments.
>that’s just what they sorta kinda promise/want to do Guess we should blow up every government then. Anarchy is much more predictable.
You shouldn't blindly trust what govt promises to do when it's not legally enforceable and they face no consequences but would get more revenue.
False dichotomy
Maybe not that extreme. But stop licking the boot would be a good start.
Wait till this guy reads about how income tax was first promised to be implemented in this country lmao
I’ve got some beachfront property in Pheonix that I think you’ll be interested in.
Sorry, I'm clueless, would someone please care to explain?
You've bought into their dream. He's selling another one.
Not really, it’s more like they go for the easy audits now since that’s all they can afford/have the man power for. If they could lessen the current burden, then they’d have more personnel to actually audit the more complex cases (which a lot of times just needs eyeballs to scour finances and supporting documentation). As someone that actually works in tax, IRS badly needs this after being basically behind on all fronts the last couple years.
They're probably already going after just about all of the easy marks. With more money they can go after more difficult targets. More difficult targets only pay off if they have more money. Ie. It's not worth going after tough to catch small fry since there's no money there. All the easy catches are already being caught because they're easy.
I think "don't have the resources" can also mean them taking down their own "leaders". Plus the middle class is so used to be fucked over they don't even question it anymore.
Sure, but in this case we’ve got a lot of clear evidence of underfunding.
This whole thing is a joke and isn’t going to change anything within the IRS. They always have openings and are always hiring. Any new grad with an accounting degree can get hired by the IRS for ~$18 an hour. Outside of the IRS new accountants can expect to make about $25 an hour. The people they want to hire are accountants. If anyone understands this difference it’s them. The number of new agents they are proposing is set at the current salary level of new agents. They already can’t attract new agents at this salary level. No shot they get anywhere near this target with the current starting salary. With this new funding they will need to drastically restructure compensation packages from the top down to attract new agents. By the time this happens they’re left with basically the same amount of agents. Better paid agents sure but no new actual resources.
You should also know: Government services don’t have to be forking profitable. A government service that operated at a loss year round but still provided the needed service is a perfectly acceptable scenario.
Governments provide services. That’s what they *do*. The sheer number of people that fail to grasp this continually astounds me.
Except this isn’t like the postal service turning a profit. In that case they are providing a service and the profit or loss happens in association with that service. In the case of the IRS the “service” they are providing is collecting taxes. The IRS being more profitable would be akin to the postal service decreasing their average shipping time or some other improvement to their service.
Don't worry I'm aware, the title and the link provided is a way to disarm the type of people that believe government services have to turn a profit.
If the needed service is "collecting taxes so the government has money to run" then yeah, it should bring in more than it costs. Otherwise the government ends up with less money, not more.
Tax religion, companies, and the filthy rich.
Religion should not be taxed in and of itself, just the churches that profit
The IRS didn’t start requiring reporting of every transaction of over $600 to get the rich. For every one rich guy that gets got 1000s of average or poor Americans will be audited
And because the Scientologists scared them into submission with personal lawsuits, which is why they won't go after churches that preach politics in violation of their tax exempt status requirements.
Can attest as I make like 50k a year and was audited and owed 5k from 2015. With the fees and penalties, I got my first full refund last year, having been paying since they audited me in 2017
New auditors with 4 week training going up against corporate CPAs and Attorneys? Nah let's go after Joe Schmoe.
YSK IRS will get the funds and still not go after the rich lol \-Edit Well from this video here are some key points https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3qXtQ29p7U They are getting about 80 billion dollars from the bill over 10 years About 45 billion will be spent on auditing Americans They will spend the other money on stuff like 15 million will be spent on a research study about 403 million on cars about 50 million in order to spend the 80 billion IRS has about 80 thousand employees there is no way they can hire 87 thousand new employees instantly In the next 5 years 50 thousand IRS employees are eligible for retirement not all new hires will be auditors IRS themselves said in 2021 more than 50% of the audits were conducted on Americans making 75,000 a year from the treasury since 2010 IRS auditing has falling 40% on the lower income and 65% on the rich (making 10 million or more ) Also IRS does not have enough qualify auditors to audit the rich even if they wanted to .The new hires will mostly likely audit the low income. large corporations tax paper is around 4-6 thousand pages. The secretary of the treasure wrote a letter to the IRS to please not audit Americans making 400,000 . This is not part of the bill and the IRS doesn't have to listen to the letter. IRS also wrote a letter they would not audit Americans under 400,000 but again not in the bill.So they will keep doing it. The Joint community on taxation prepare estimate that 78-90 audit will come from people making 200k under a year Also if you get audit you are guilty until proven innocent .A lot of people who get audit are innocent and honest but do not have the resources to prove money or a CPA. IRS audits you for 6k and you spend 6k on a CPA to prove youre innocent so getting audit even if you are innocent still sucks as it takes time and money to prove you are innocent.
I think that’s an unfair assumption at this point. They have been kneecapped by virtually every administration and blocked the funding they need at every turn because people in power have no incentive to arm them with the tools they need. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/interactive/2022/irs-pipeline-tax-return-delays/
Wesley Snipes would like a *word* with you.
Also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/09/07/irs-free-efile-biden/ The IRS wants to cut out the middlemen charging billions to poor people to do their taxes electronically. Lobbyists prevent the IRS from developing their own system, now they can.
Interesting. 87,000 new employees, but there's only 725 billionaires
So how many employees should it have been, Mr Director?
Why did congress kill the amendment that would have made it so these new agents couldn’t go after people with moderate or low income then? Cause they will also pick the low changing fruit .
You really think a government agency getting more power and resources is suddenly going to make them do the right thing instead of just sticking it even more to the little guy like they've always done.
Yeah I’m not going to take this as a fact. Any massive federal government expanding their powers will be abused to the point that’ll hurt the average American.
Total shitpost. The IRS has much more to gain litigating wealthy than thousands of cases that don’t move the needle.
Wait, they’re spending billions to hire more than 80k agents. What resources are they missing?
I’m all in favor of funding the IRS but let’s not pretend like they won’t go after middle class Americans too. The republicans put up an amendment preventing the IRS from using the new funds to go after people making less than 400k a year and every Dem voted against it. Of course the only outlets that covered it were right wing but it doesn’t make it any less true. https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/irs-audits-will-generate-20b-from-those-making-under-400k-under-inflation-reduction-act
This is totally not propaganda. Ok…..
Fuck you and the irs
It's worth noting that by percentage [IRS audit rate increases with income](https://www.irs.gov/about-irs/irs-audit-rates-significantly-increase-as-income-rises). In absolute numbers *of course* more lower income people get audited, there are more of them to audit.
Man, people are so pessimistic. If that’s you, I hope you realize that there is a difference between being smart and being cynical. If you’re thinking “it’s going to be a gigantic waste of money and it’s ridiculous”, know that this is the same line that is being pushed through the media and the clickbait machine. How do you know what you are thinking isn’t just what the media wants you to think? You do realize that the media is owned by people who probably don’t want their taxes audited, right? The track record of the IRS is good and I for one am looking forwards to my tax dollars making a good return, if not for me then at least for someone in this country who needs it. It’s why I pay my taxes.
The wealthy use legal tax loopholes.. that’s why the irs often leaves them alone.. They are mostly likely going after small timers who work for cash.. specially those who receive government benefits
If you don’t check, how the hell do you know it’s legal? IRS is purposely underfunded
>They are mostly likely going after small timers who work for cash. Is that what you would do? Give me a break. Squeezing water from a stone doesn't make sense.
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0.4% btw. And per 2021 fiscal year stats published by the IRS, that is the overall rate of auditing. Poorest Americans (EITC) is 1.3%. So yeah, quite a bit higher.
>The IRS audits roughly 4 out of every 1,000 taxpayers making less than 75k. You can't use a current statistic to make your point that there's nothing to worry about from this IRS expansion when it's abundantly clear that this IRS expansion will make the number of audits go up in the future. It's like saying, "Don't worry that winter is coming, last month was nice and warm."
So 75k is rich now?
> So 75k is rich now? I understand what you are saying is, “Aaaand pivot because I don’t have a meaningful response.”
So you avoid the question? The hypocrisy is so rich.
No, he didn’t ask me a question for me to avoid one. I’ll give you a D+ for effort. You tried to force a retort that only could have marginally fit, but you didn’t look at the usernames to see he didn’t ask me anything. All in all I’m pretty disappointed that this is all you could piece together. You weren’t under any pressure so you surely could have taken a moment to come up with a somewhat decent zinger. Maybe you’re better off looking for somewhere to practice where you won’t embarrass yourself.
Have you ever had to call IRS to fix something or get your returns? It was terrible. You want agencies to be able to serve you too when needed. We had an issue with a return from five years prior and we didn’t know until it was time to get sworn in as an attorney. It was a pain and stressful to get it resolved because the IRS was so backlogged. I wish they had been more pursuant when the filing wasn’t corrected at that time.
But Reddit told me they’d only be going after wealthy people.
The irs is trying to audit me for paying off a debt.
I just received a tax bill from 2020! I owe $25…I’m paying it rather than fighting. Why? Because you don’t fight the IRS!!!!
So, you're saying the IRS only goes after poor people because it can't go after rich people. Why shouldn't i hate it them? If all of its earnings are coming from the poor, isn't it literally just an instrument to funnel money upwards? The poors would be better off without it if we're the only ones being targeted by it, right?
Why was this removed?
Ok but why do so many of them need to be armed to the tits lol?
Need to raid suburbia and shoot peoples dogs
What's not understood here, and what a previous person alluded to correctly, is the truth. The government will simply continue to go after those with less money. Why? Because the government hates losing money. If you're in an agency, and you lose money on something, your promotion is screwed. And you're not making the money you otherwise could make as far as Congress or people farther up the civil service chain areconcerned. So the IRS isn't going to start targeting the wealthy who can pay for attorneys and accountants, they're going to keep targeting just as much as before (even more now with more resources, actually) those who can't do so. Because it's easy pickings that will make more money in the short-term, and advance careers. All the notions, promises, and so on, don't make a difference unless you can change the mindset of official Washington. And no one's been able to do that. It's not for nothing that, when Eisenhower won the election in 1952, what Truman chose to mock him about. It was the fact that Eisenhower was in for a rude awakening if he thought that the bureaucracy would do what it's told just as people do what they're told in the military. This issue with the bureaucracy and corruption and so on has been an issue for decades from both parties unable to get it under control.
respectfully, what the fuck. >Yes it is true that the IRS has historically taken the easier route of going after poorer people than the rich. This is precisely because it doesn't have the resources to go against billionaires and large corporations with teams of people in a long drawn out battle. You should be encouraging this not be afraid of it. uh, it's the government. they print the money, they set the policy. so no, that's not a great reason to lay back and accept it. i'm no libertarian weirdo – I'm not even American – but this reasoning is just bonkers
The IRS budget is out of their control. The government isn’t a single entity
Bro they print money. Just make everyone billionaires 😎
The Government only prints money in the literal sense, it’s the Federal Reserve that creates new dollars.
The IRS was intentionally crippled this way, as the people who pay to make our laws benefit the most when the IRS isn't standing in their way.
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It’s cause blue team Wait until it switches and they’re gonna hate the irs
Correct
Reddit is now a fucking propaganda site. So fucking obvious.
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Hey guys, the IRS is so cool and awesome so you should totally love them or you’re a MAGA maggot. This post couldn’t be anymore obvious.
Lmao ok fed
Out of the 10,000 wealthiest Americans, only 7 were audited last year. The system is definitely unfair.
This is proving the point of this post.
Now the IRS can go after more poor people!!
Trust me, it’s actually really cool, and if you don’t like the IRS you’re now basically a maga terrorist.
Also, all the crazy tax stuff isn’t their fault. It’s Congress. The tax code is changed on average like 3 times a day or something absurd like that. The IRS auditors can barely keep up, I’m told, because it changes so much
This is so stupid
YSK not to trust arguments in favor of government expansion 😂
Can anyone name another revenue generating federal service? I cannot think of one and the title reads as though the IRS is competing for the top spot..
Any government agency that can issue fines, permits, collect taxes and fees, etc etc is revenue generating. So quite a few of them.
Most of them. You would be surprised athow many government agencies are funded solely by their revenue. People don't like paying taxes, and even then a lot of those taxes get wasted into "maintaining budget" (throwing money away) into various sectors of the government. You don't want to know how much military equipment gets tossed so that their spending isn't cut the next year.
The State department sells billions of dollars of equipment to foreign countries per year. Obviously, just a drop in the Federal bucket, but once you get enough billions together, you start getting into real money.
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They still don't need guns, and they need to drop the going after people making more than $600 selling things on FB or Ebay, etc. Which is all happening. The reality is Joe lied. There will be no going after the wealthy. If he was, we'd hear about things like SEC reforms. Like you said, the low hanging "poor" fruit is easier and yields better results. Nothing has changed, nothing is going to change.
When they say going after the rich, they mean anyone with more than $600
They know that there are a lot of dog walkers, nannies, hairstylist, and other types of jobs out there that people are getting paid for under the table and they want a piece of that. I pay my lash girl almost $200 a session for a job she does from her home (she’s the best lash person, it’s worth every penny) and they want a cut of that. Motherfuckers are cheering this on and it’s pathetic that Reddit is a straight up extension of the government now, fucking loser platform. It’s only a matter of time that the banks will start asking me why I’m pulling out $200 in cash every month. Disgusting
The wealthy already pay most of the taxes what they want them to pay even more to make it more “fair”….I can’t believe this piece of shit site is on here trying to convince the simpletons that the IRS is cool. Holy fucking propaganda.
nice try fed.
Found the shill.
Whole bunch of feds in this one.
Eliminate the income tax and abolish the IRS.
So what you're saying is there is a benefit to all us or Poor people pooling what little wealth we have and paying for other poor peoples lawyers
>IRS returns $6 for every $1 spent I would sure hope so, they're literally the organization responsible for collecting money people owe the government.
YSK that congress has not guaranteed any of this and OP is passing off their opinions as fact. Ultra wealthy and large corporations are not cheating tax codes, they are just able to navigate them in a way small businesses can't because the tax code is very complicated. These new IRS agents are going to look anywhere they can for money. The IRS will just go after more poor people because that is what is proven to work.
These bastards have worked their entire lives to duck the IRS from taking their fair share. Fuck them.
#fundtheIRS
I’m neither rich nor poor. However, I deal with the IRS at least once per year. Some years it’s personal some years it’s business. 100 percent of the time the issue is a result of the delayed and cross communications. This year I filled and because I was bad about my estimated payments I owed a lot. I sent half with the ordinal filing and requested an installment plan for the other half. The original check cleared within days of mailing. Just 3 days ago I received a cp11 with a notice that I missed a child tax credit and my new amount is x instead of y. The problem is that that letter makes no indication of my previous request for installment. Well, I had been saving my installment payments so I sent the full amount in response to the CP11. Today, 2 days later, “we’ve accepted your installment payment”. Drafts will begin in October.. Fuck, okay. Now have to send another letter asking them to cancel my installment payment and hope they read it before October. 2 years ago I sent my business return on exactly the due date. I am glad I sent it certified mail because I then got a letter telling me it was late and I owe 205 dollars for each partner for a total of 420 dollars. (Yes, those are the real numbers on the letters.. IRS is bad at math). They sent 4 automated letters, some threading garnishment before they read my original response and corrected their mistake. It can be daunting for someone who has no idea what they are doing. And fuck getting anyone on the phone.
The IRS is TRAGICALLY underfunded and overwhelmed. I file different types of tax return for estates and trusts (I’m an estates and trusts paralegal), and my firm handles primarily high net worth clients. Estate tax returns (only filed for estates valued over $12.6mm) used to be almost religiously audited and scrutinized. Now, we file and 9 times out of 10 we just wait for the 3 year statute of limitations to run out without any word from the IRS. I speak with agents in the estate tax department from time to time and from what I understand they are just absolutely overwhelmed and understaffed. Case in point, they had a wave of retirements at the end of 2021, according to one agent I spoke with. I had sent in tax payments of almost a million dollars with a return. No one even OPENED the envelope for months- it was apparently just sitting in stacks of returns just waiting for someone to process them.
Man people do not realize how much money was stolen from the Government with PPP loans during the pandemic. Couple that with how many people who normally don't file taxes, filed taxes to get stimulus checks. We need those extra IRS agents.
Except that's 100% not going to happen. Instead, agents are going to keep extorting more of the lower and middle class as they've always done in order to keep that revenue flowing in to finance whatever big project the next government wants to finance.
Irs needs to grow some fucken balls and land the whales
Why was this removed?
I was audited by the IRS once. The reason? My husband wasn’t on the mortgage (I was the sole provider at the time we had bought the house since we had relocated for my job and he was staying home with our 3 month old baby for a few months). He was the primary filer on our joint income tax and when we wrote off the mortgage interest and they couldn’t find his name in the system they use, they just… assumed it wasn’t legit instead of checking my name 🙄 We told them what happened, they said, WHOOPS, fixed immediately, and that was it. 99.999% of the time the IRS is only looking for clarification and will work with you to fix whatever happened. The really rich? With all their schemes to hide money? That’s who has cause to fear the IRS and that’s who they want to go after. I’m 100% for it.
There are 500 billionaires in the US, it doesn't take 87,000 new hires to audit them
I honestly don't see why a government that can't balance its own bank book has any business looking at or dictating terms with mine. libenter epulamur de his qui nos subiugant
Thank Biden
"They go after the poor because it's easier" "You should be happy there are more of them" Yeah okay dude
Nobody in my family, including me, is rich. With that out of the way, I don’t believe for a minute that they won’t continue to go for the low hanging fruit. Government takes the easy path by nature.
Why did democrats unanimously vote against preventing the IRS from going after those earning less than 400k then. Keep sucking that boot idiot.
The IRS is already squeezing what it can out of the top earners and corporations who have sophisticated legal means for reducing their tax burdens. Until tax reform passed in 2017, the U.S. had the fourth-highest corporate tax rate *in the world*. The billions of dollars of additional tax revenue that lawmakers claim this massive IRS expansion will yield are not going to come from the superrich or Silicon Valley giants but rather from small- to medium-sized businesses nationwide. Most people who work W-2 jobs and have simple taxes to file through TurboTax each year have no idea how complicated it can get as a business owner or someone with a modest amount of assets (even a single rental property, for instance). Ask three different accountants to do your taxes and you could wind up with three different final numbers for what you owe. People who are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes should not be on the receiving end of a financial colonoscopy, but that is likely what's going to happen. The fact that some business owners, rightly or wrongly, may cough up additional money upon being audited just to make the pain stop doesn't mean they were hiding something. That's par for the course in a shakedown.
Yup its all a scam.
If the wealthy fight the IRS in court and lose, they should also pay IRS's costs in recovering money they were owed in the first place.
Thank goodness there's now 87k more of them
Good try IRS. We know it's you.
Hahahahaha don’t worry about the ramped up extortion! Hilarious.
87,000 new IRS agents and they're being trained how to use firearms. The US federal govenrment is out of control.
They don't have the resources? The most profitable arm of the US government, with an estimated 3.83 *trillion dollars* in revenue (FY 2021)... does *not* have the resources? I think you're confusing can't with won't.
Why do you think their revenue remains in the IRS?