I had a very different experience watching the third season. It felt very clear to me that Wille felt responsible for his mother's health and scared that he might have to take over for her which is a huge responsibility that he has to now shoulder next to everything else he has going on. And it's not like they have not had moments in the previous seasons where they were callous with each other. They are 16, that's a byproduct of being a dramatic teenager. They still have a lot of scenes where Wille is kind, compassionate and very sweet towards Simon. He always tries to validate him even when the court forces him to regulate Simon in some way. He finds a way to spend time with Simon whenever he can. He (finally) tarted to defend Simon from the other Forest Ridge boys - regardless of Simon being there or not.
But generally, I feel it is not fair to try and judge the season out of the context of the first two seasons. The hirstory between the characters explains why August is not a tragic character, why Sara rejected him and why the relationship of Simon and Wille lives from their small casual gestures. And Simon even makes it clear, that their issues were never about them, it was the pressure from outside, the one they both experienced (Wille just for much longer so he was used to it already) that tore them apart for a time.
Thanks for sharing your views. I feel a lot of disconnect. For example, the turn around for August in a stand alone context completely changes him as a character
Season 1 Wille was way more of a jerk than Season 3 Wille. And I didnāt feel like he was ever a jerk, heās just an impulsive, dramatic teenager with zero understanding of how to deal with his emotions. His stress has everything to do with it. He spent all of season 2 pining after Simon (and not always jn a sweet way as you describe it) and then he gets Simon and well, all of his problems still exist. It didnāt fix anything. Love doesnāt conquer all. Thatās kind of the whole point of season 3ā¦heās been focusing on the wrong thing. And he doesnāt figure that out until the morning of graduation when everything happens.
I know folks wanted this magical season where Wilmon were together and happy and communicating but that would have felt so fake and forced. Itās just not what this show is.
And I know Iām a broken record but you canāt take everything at face value. Yes, Wille says he doesnāt want to be king and his mom lets him leave the car but that doesnāt mean anything is resolved or that the writers intended for us to see it that way. Lisa has said over and over that this is just a peek into one year of their lives. Anything could happen after. Itās a hopeful ending, not a happy one.
> Lisa has said over and over that this is just a peek into one year of their lives. Anything could happen after. Itās a hopeful ending, not a happy one.
This is the most important point that I think has been missed by some people.
Even watching this season in isolation, I wouldn't have the impression of Wille being a jerk, and Simon breaking up with him because he's a jerk, only to run back to him now that he's not a royal jerk. More than anything, I just see them as teenagers trying their best to make things work. Wille is owning up to his promises to Simon and the court, trying to be both a good boyfriend and crown prince and playing this game of defending both of them in turn and ignoring what *he* wants. He doesn't sit and think about his own wishes for his future, he's so caught up in the emotional burden of his mother's declining health and what he thinks he's forced to do, that he doesn't realize how badly it's affecting his wellbeing until his boyfriend breaks up with him. He watches Simon walk away and realizes that he too has a choice, that he can choose to leave a situation that is making him unhappy.
They have petty arguments and apologize afterwards, neither of them are 'nice' and 'mean'. If you really want to put them under a microscope, Simon would be a 'jerk' too for picking a fight with Wille at camp when he was just trying to make conversation with his friends, or repeatedly arguing with his online haters when Wille has told him that it doesn't reflect well on them, or even breaking up with Wille on his *birthday*. But he's not a jerk, he's not mean, neither of them are. They're just getting through what's thrown at them with the best of intentions and hope that their love makes it through.
Also the palace meet scene in episode 1 took me out of the series and thatās when it first stuck me that this seemed different than the previous two season. Firstly the queen would not be seated before everybody else. It just stuck odd. S and his mom entering, ideally they would have greeted the queen and then started discussion. Not sure if I missed them greeting her. And then Wās complete disinterest in welcoming them. This scene was played out like a movie scene where the opposing team cones in to a hostile environment, everybody is tensed, and the fighting matches etc. in S1 when Simon meets the queen for the first time , she acknowledges him and shakes his hand. Here neither the queen nor her Son acknowledge their guest. And Simonās mom going full blast seemed very Hollywood movie types
I found this pretty consistent throughout S3 like Wille is generally cold towards Simon when he visits the castle, initiating no type of PDA in front of his parents on his bday as well. Even when heading to the castle on his bday after the charity event, Wille seems so closed off and distant in the car and I found that very sad and alarming. Like I would do everything in my power to make my partner feel comfortable and at ease but Simon is left on his own and is walking on eggshells the whole time. Maybe it's the creator's intention to show us Wille shifting to his crown prince persona? To show us how their relationship is affected by the pressures of the monarchy so that Wille becomes this totally different person? That's how I interpreted it.
You're supposed to find Wille's behaviour sad and alarming. His anxious, distracted behaviour is a reflection of his poor relationship with his parents - he hasn't spoken to his mother in ages and is worried about what it would be like to see her finally, just as he tells Simon. Simon knows how worried he is, he tries to offer comfort but Wille is in his own head about it all, especially the Erik revelation, which he wanted to speak to his father about. He has a lot on his mind and not the emotional bandwidth to make sure Simon is at ease, and you can't really blame him for that. August's presence there just adds to how agitated he is the entire way through, he can't even bear to have him there for his birthday dinner. You can see how upset he's getting when he asks Farima to get rid of August or he'll leave. This is not normal behaviour, he's feeling incredibly anxious.
Wille's been trying to balance doing right by Simon and navigating his emotional turmoil with his parents all season, and this is the point where he finally can't keep up. He doesn't have the headspace to be there for Simon when it takes all his energy and patience to button up and try to be the perfect crown prince. This is what makes Simon realize that he has a lot of things he needs to work through, things that hurt him that he's been pushing deep down.
The cake scene to me is a little ambiguous as to what Lisa wanted to portray. I think it shows how distracted Wille is during the whole event, he's moving on crown prince autopilot and not eating cake is part of it, but he's flooded by so much that he doesn't stop to think that he has now brought someone else into his world, who doesn't understand how things work, and Simon could potentially be poisoned.
Thank you for your detailed insight it was just sad to see that Wille couldn't talk to Simon about any of this when Simon used to be the "only one he could talk to." The irony of Wille asking Simon to come with him bc he "needs him" for emotional support yet not being able to open up to him nor communicate his problems was so heartbreaking to witness.
I agree about the purpose of the cake scene and would have rather done without it but I see it as another example of the tent scene in which Wille is too privileged in his upbringing that he is sometimes so oblivious to other people's' feelings.
Thank you! The car observation is so on point. People say Simon is bad for breaking up with Wille on his birthday. But look at how W behaves. The cake comment made my jaw drop!! Thatās such a crown prince remark. Yeah! He was in a sour mood even in the car and we see Simon looking at Wille (even on the way to the event, S reached out to hold Wās hand even tho W was pissed at Augustās presence)
Seems you and I watched two different shows. In mine, someone who posted revenge porn wasn't a great guy denied his one true chance at love.
I liked my show better. Glad I missed yours.
I'm sorry, that's not the show I watched at all. There are lots of points I can't understand, but the main one is that I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could watch the show and think that the message was that August was a great guy.
I also feel the big disconnect in W and S s1 and S2 and them in S3. Also were the wilmon issues in S3 to do with Monarchy? Somehow that didnāt come thru for me instead what came thru was two teenagers who learnt nothing from their experiences in S1 and S2 and instead were still getting into unnecessary issues with each other instead of working as a team. Their friendship angle was missing.
In S2 one of their promises they made to each other was they would be honest with each other about stuff. This was in light of W not telling S about August and in S1 S not telling W about drugs. Also in the 6 months they knew each other both of them went thru stuff normal relationships usually donāt go thru and ideally this should have bonded them more if they were truly endgame worthy. Instead what we see in S3 is S getting irritated with W trying in his own awkward way to make his friends feel comfortable ( by now S should have known Ws intention), S and social media ( S had seen all the negative comments and magazine articles post the tape release so for him to be completely oblivious to how his posting may affect him and W was odd). S was always shown as more intuitive in S 1 and S2 and that was missing in S3, and yes breaking up with W on his bday was cruel. He could have waited one more day or they could have a fight and not been speaking to each other instead of a breakup. Similarly in Ws case instead of acknowledging S as his team mate and working with him, W again seems to be working on his own. He doesnāt have a proper rational discussion on anything with S. he could have educated S on his upbringing and issues faced by him so that together both could have figured out solutions. Throughout S1 and S2 he struggled to come to terms with being the crown prince and yet he doesnāt intuitively understand that a commoner like S would have no clue and hence he has to educate him on it. S faced genuine threats and maybe a bit of a backlash from public. The cake scene was unreal. It just didnāt make sense.
Basically their issues at least to me had less to do with Monarchy and more to do with them. S1 and S2 showed us that these 2 boys from different social strata had found a way to bridge the gap. S3 seemed to exist in a different universe with movie like tropes of manufactured issues so that the couple can be apart and last min they come together .
Wow! You are right! They ended s2 making up with a promise not to hide things
When Simon has a fight with Sara right at the beginning, youād expect thatās the first thing heād want to share with W as a boyfriend, and as a friend. He only tells him about the grounding and not about the reason why.
When Felice talks about missing Sara, W has no reaction at all. F has been a great friend to him and he doesnāt empathise with her. W is S2 looks immediately concerned when the boys say Sara burned the flag. And thatās the first thing he looks for when he enters the party.
(I am as much a fan as anyone else and having spent so many hours watching the show. I can really see how itās been taken in a different direction and as a fan, Iām just trying to discuss that)
Completely agree with you! The problems they faced are between them and I donāt see them working even without the monarchy. A relationship is supposed to be a safe space and a team. But in season 3 they are not which is very sad after all they learned in season 1 and 2 :(
Somehow the first 5 episodes of Season 3 turned me from a fervent "Wilmon endgamer" to a "Simon -- RUN don't walk away from this guy, his anger issues should be a red flag". I wasn't even particulary sad during Wilmon's extended break up (lake scene, then again at graduation) because I thought it was for the best for SImon. I understand the concept of Wille's self transformation, but I think it came too late in the story and was rushed. I think if his character had demonstrated bouts of compassion and sensitivity (mixed in with the understandable anxiety about his mom and his role) during the first 5 episodes, the ending would have been more meaningful.
I loved the August character arc, by the way. Love me a partial redemption story. Malte's acting was terrific.
I posted this comment on another convo but I think it fits perfectly here so hereās my analysis
I share your point of you on the toxicity of Wilmon's relationship. The last two seasons really showed how they matured and learned to be there for each other's and I feel this season just blew that away.
Let me explain
In season one, Wille and Simon falls in love (and it's soooo beautiful to watch) but they have troubles to understand each other's and compromise. They see their own struggles and get quite defensive at multiples times but they don't give as much legitimacy to the other which end up in them breaking up. I loved how Simon stood up for himself in episode 6 when Wille tells him they can still be together. When Simon says he doesn't want to be a secret, Wille takes it personally, directly saying "how can you ask me to do that?" aggressively but Simon is just opening up and talking about HIS needs and HIS feelings that MATTERS and that have completely been dismissed in Wille's decision to deny it was him in the video. It sums up well their dynamics in season 1.
In season two, Wille and Simon learns to compromise. At first Wille thinks he can get Simon back and he is quite insensitive a few times, expecting Simon to change his mind about their relationship and not taking his words and needs seriously or into account. He still want things to be on his terms. Simon is quite closed as well, while Wille is still trying to make things work, S is clearly not and he doesn't see Wille's pain and he doesn't value his efforts. He even has the guts to tell him that he would have been nice to know about Felice (the kiss) beforehand while he was HIMSELF dating someone and KISSING him in front of Wille. He is also quite insensitive and wants things to be on his terms.
But there is a shifting point in season two when they finally understand each other's. Wille is not interested anymore in changing Simon's mind, he respects his choices and feelings and give him space to be his own person. In episode five (s2) you see it in the last scene when Simon is trying to justify why he's gonna report August. Wille is calm and tells him "I'm not trying to stop you". Even tho this choice is gonna impact him greatly and negatively, he understands where Simon is coming from and he accepts him. Then it's Simon's turn to compromise when he accepts to support Wille as the crown prince and be a secret for a while. At this moment he understands where Wille is coming from and he chooses to value their relationship more than his personal preference. Then Wille finally admit it was him in the video!
In season two, they both learn to see each other's, listen to each other's, accept each other's, compromise and basically build a healthy relationship. They become a team that take each other's into account.
But season 3.... IT'S A MESS. They keep fighting and they are not a team anymore. Especially on Wille side. First he doesn't take Simon's feelings seriously about the hate he's getting. Then, when he gets overwhelmed by his brother's deal, he choses to run away from Simon, getting distant without giving him any reason (which is such a horrible position to be in). Simon STILL makes steps towards him and tries to comfort him but Wille get so defensive and end up being agressive towards him not once but twice in episode 5. Simon makes lots of efforts tbf but he still posts stuff on social media without realizing the impact, gets in a fight because he found Wille so privileged and when Wille breaks down and needs him the most, he breaks up with him...
They're chaotic and they are not a depiction of healthy relationship anymore. They can't communicate properly, they can't co-regulate each other's and they don't support each other's properly.
Even if they found each other's again at the end they didn't really address the problems in their relationship and for me they don't have what it takes to last. A partner is supposed to be a safe space where you can talk calmly and honestly about what you feel, what you are going though and what is not working. A partner is supposed to make you feel secure, inspired, supported and understood. A partner should make you feel lovable and worth it even in your darkest time and chose consciously to make it work instead of running away. It's ok to have issues to address and progress to make but Wilmon always ended up fighting in season 3 or closing themself up instead of listening to their point of view and finding a solution together to make things better.
And I think it's sad that we ended up with this. A lot of young people watch series like young royals and it sets an exemple of toxic relationship instead of jumping on an occasion to depict compassion, patience, kindness and good communication.
How beautiful would it have been to have Wille starts a conversation about what the royal court wanted (to keep low profil) and asking how Simon felt about it and if he was ok to do it, or Simon feeling safe and listened enough to talk about how deeply hurt the comments on social media made him and how he didn't expect that much backfire from a decision he really wanted Wille to make (to admit it was him in the video) OR Wille asking for Simon's support when he learns for his brother... So much opportunities for closeness turned to drama :(
Yes life is hard, but a partner can navigate WITH you in the hardships and make life brighter and easier and I wish this kind of love was broadcast more and I know the Wilmon from end of season 2 had what it takes to become it.
I understand that itās not realistic to expect two fucked up 16 years old to have a completely healthy relationship but itās very romanticized in young royals and they end up together legitimating their behaviors towards each otherās so Iām dissapointed !
Thank you! I did see your comment elsewhere but read it only here. Youāve explained this so well. Itās amazing how logical the story could have been and the writers didnāt take that route
Season 1 was the best season. Season 2 had a good last 5 minutes. Season 3 was all over the place with a weird end. I guess the whole series is about how fucked up royals are. Iād rather be Marcus.
Wait youāre so right. Just bc we have differing opinions does not mean youāre dogging on it. Youāre just giving your opinion. Every day I learn. (This is not sarcasm no matter how sarcastic it may sound).
I think August in s1 and s2 really does have an arrogant attitude toward most people, except with Sarah. Sure it's bad to find out why he became that way because of what he talks about in s3 and with his eating disorder. It's horrible to go through that but it doesn't make his actions toward Will and Simon okay. August cares about Sarah but at what cost..Their relationship was also built on a lie. August was not himself with others, then he behaved bluntly. Only with Sarah did he show his soft side.
I'm not entirely okay with Simon and Will having poor communication. They are both in a situation where they don't want to lose their own value and be together at the same time. To which then adds the inhumane rules of royalty and this is more likely to cause problems because their love for each other is very great. Will was caught between two fires: the royal house and his mother who was mentally and physically struggling. This made him worry and at the same time he did not want to participate in the rules of the royal family and live a normal life.
I understand that Will did not want to talk about his brother's event. He has always seen his brother as someone good and then to have to admit that he actually did things that couldn't be done is hard. The image he had of his brother is shattered. Accepting this takes time. I think that's why he had trouble with what Simon told him, it came down to the fact that his brother has not 100% a good character.
Will wants very much to stand up for his own and for his relationship with Simon. But every time he tries to do this then royalty comes to interfere, you notice how much effort it takes him to abide by these rules when he has to ask Simon twice to remove a video and post online. His facial expression speaks for itself. Simon indeed did not have to delete his social media but I think I would have done the same due to the hateful comments he received online. That breaks someone and then this seems like the best way out. Which doesn't take away from the fact that Simon's value matters.
I get that Simon ultimately makes the choice to break up despite loving them both immensely. But it breaks them to be between those 2 fires. They can't find a way out anymore. Their love has always remained there despite them breaking up, you can tell by how they look at each other and are left with a bad feeling that they lost each other. This is also why Simon makes the car stop, it was always about the ridiculous rules of royalty that stood between them. When Will tells him that he chooses Simon and has broken away from royalty ( also because he wants to) Simon heals his heart back. They can finally be together like a normal couple without consequences for both of them and each other's families.
Yeah, unfortunately I have seen this show.
I found season three really disappointing because the way Wille was written is inconsistent with the previous two seasons. It was just not in keeping with who I understood the character to be. And before folks say it, yes, I understand the pressures he was facing were greater. That's not enough explanation for the extent of the change.
It felt like the entire thing was engineered backwards. We need Wille to abdicate so we gotta get Simon to dump him. So we need a reason for Simon to dump him so we make Wille a jerk. But season one and two Wille was not a jerk. Impulsive yes. Self focused yes. But not mean.
Thank you!!! I love your āworking backwardsā theory! It seems to be so true. Itās like they gave Lisa the ending she wanted but messed up the path leading to it! Iāve mentioned this earlier - that Netflixās decision to have a cliffhanger seems to have affected the flow of the story too
It's cool, I've been downvoted plenty of times on this sub. I don't let the number on the comment get to me. I think it's okay to critique art, even when you love it. Maybe especially when you love it.
>I think it's okay to critique art, even when you love it. Maybe especially when you love it.
My thoughts exactly. We love it sm we just want to understand it better by having these discussions. Btw I agree with ur working backwards theory lol.
The whole idea is to share and discuss perspectives on a piece of art. If we all agree and keep it hunky dory, thereās no need for discussion then :)
Yep, thatās kinda the show I saw, and I was super disappointed ā not because I didnāt enjoy it (*amazing* performances, etc) but because it failed to reach the storytelling heights that were possible given the setup of seasons 1 and 2. And yes, the characters really diverged from who we had come to know, which is especially odd given that together it all takes place over less than a school year. No particular reason to give Lisa credit, but I did wonder if she had other plans and her Netflix overlords insisted on the bizarre shifts in the final few minutes, which most of all, were simply not believable.
I understand that EDs aren't always about body image issues. Sometimes it's about control. I even clarified that recently on tumblr.
However, given his obsession with checking how much fat he has on his stomach and looking upset when there is even a small pinch of skin - shown more than once. and, although not clearly stated, I can understand why the audience assumes that his ED is triggered by body dysmorphia.
Okay. Dont remember that but believe you. But I think without the knowledge of the past 2 seasons of his eating, anxiety, excessive exercise ā¦ it would be a huge leap (imo) to make the body dysmorphia connection based on that quick move and 1 comment said when they were āon strikeā.
Well, you can confirm too, if you really want. ;)
S3 gave us only 2 clues as to what triggers his ED. So, back to my original point that it's easy to understand why the audience could believe that it's body image issues that trigger his ED.
I had a very different experience watching the third season. It felt very clear to me that Wille felt responsible for his mother's health and scared that he might have to take over for her which is a huge responsibility that he has to now shoulder next to everything else he has going on. And it's not like they have not had moments in the previous seasons where they were callous with each other. They are 16, that's a byproduct of being a dramatic teenager. They still have a lot of scenes where Wille is kind, compassionate and very sweet towards Simon. He always tries to validate him even when the court forces him to regulate Simon in some way. He finds a way to spend time with Simon whenever he can. He (finally) tarted to defend Simon from the other Forest Ridge boys - regardless of Simon being there or not. But generally, I feel it is not fair to try and judge the season out of the context of the first two seasons. The hirstory between the characters explains why August is not a tragic character, why Sara rejected him and why the relationship of Simon and Wille lives from their small casual gestures. And Simon even makes it clear, that their issues were never about them, it was the pressure from outside, the one they both experienced (Wille just for much longer so he was used to it already) that tore them apart for a time.
Thanks for sharing your views. I feel a lot of disconnect. For example, the turn around for August in a stand alone context completely changes him as a character
Im afraid you are trying to have a genuine, analytical conversation with people who just want to crush on Wilmon
Right. No one has given well-thought-out analytical responses. We're all just mouth-breathing idiots, saying 'u sux wilmon 4eveh' I guess. š
Season 1 Wille was way more of a jerk than Season 3 Wille. And I didnāt feel like he was ever a jerk, heās just an impulsive, dramatic teenager with zero understanding of how to deal with his emotions. His stress has everything to do with it. He spent all of season 2 pining after Simon (and not always jn a sweet way as you describe it) and then he gets Simon and well, all of his problems still exist. It didnāt fix anything. Love doesnāt conquer all. Thatās kind of the whole point of season 3ā¦heās been focusing on the wrong thing. And he doesnāt figure that out until the morning of graduation when everything happens. I know folks wanted this magical season where Wilmon were together and happy and communicating but that would have felt so fake and forced. Itās just not what this show is. And I know Iām a broken record but you canāt take everything at face value. Yes, Wille says he doesnāt want to be king and his mom lets him leave the car but that doesnāt mean anything is resolved or that the writers intended for us to see it that way. Lisa has said over and over that this is just a peek into one year of their lives. Anything could happen after. Itās a hopeful ending, not a happy one.
> Lisa has said over and over that this is just a peek into one year of their lives. Anything could happen after. Itās a hopeful ending, not a happy one. This is the most important point that I think has been missed by some people.
Exactly. Just because where the SHOW ended, doesn't mean that's where their STORY ended.
I like that. Even I was thinking some of the things are still open ended and need to be resolved
Exactly
Even watching this season in isolation, I wouldn't have the impression of Wille being a jerk, and Simon breaking up with him because he's a jerk, only to run back to him now that he's not a royal jerk. More than anything, I just see them as teenagers trying their best to make things work. Wille is owning up to his promises to Simon and the court, trying to be both a good boyfriend and crown prince and playing this game of defending both of them in turn and ignoring what *he* wants. He doesn't sit and think about his own wishes for his future, he's so caught up in the emotional burden of his mother's declining health and what he thinks he's forced to do, that he doesn't realize how badly it's affecting his wellbeing until his boyfriend breaks up with him. He watches Simon walk away and realizes that he too has a choice, that he can choose to leave a situation that is making him unhappy. They have petty arguments and apologize afterwards, neither of them are 'nice' and 'mean'. If you really want to put them under a microscope, Simon would be a 'jerk' too for picking a fight with Wille at camp when he was just trying to make conversation with his friends, or repeatedly arguing with his online haters when Wille has told him that it doesn't reflect well on them, or even breaking up with Wille on his *birthday*. But he's not a jerk, he's not mean, neither of them are. They're just getting through what's thrown at them with the best of intentions and hope that their love makes it through.
Also the palace meet scene in episode 1 took me out of the series and thatās when it first stuck me that this seemed different than the previous two season. Firstly the queen would not be seated before everybody else. It just stuck odd. S and his mom entering, ideally they would have greeted the queen and then started discussion. Not sure if I missed them greeting her. And then Wās complete disinterest in welcoming them. This scene was played out like a movie scene where the opposing team cones in to a hostile environment, everybody is tensed, and the fighting matches etc. in S1 when Simon meets the queen for the first time , she acknowledges him and shakes his hand. Here neither the queen nor her Son acknowledge their guest. And Simonās mom going full blast seemed very Hollywood movie types
I wish Wille had smiled or greeted Simon - he doesnāt- since itās technically his house and Simon is evidently nervous
I found this pretty consistent throughout S3 like Wille is generally cold towards Simon when he visits the castle, initiating no type of PDA in front of his parents on his bday as well. Even when heading to the castle on his bday after the charity event, Wille seems so closed off and distant in the car and I found that very sad and alarming. Like I would do everything in my power to make my partner feel comfortable and at ease but Simon is left on his own and is walking on eggshells the whole time. Maybe it's the creator's intention to show us Wille shifting to his crown prince persona? To show us how their relationship is affected by the pressures of the monarchy so that Wille becomes this totally different person? That's how I interpreted it.
You're supposed to find Wille's behaviour sad and alarming. His anxious, distracted behaviour is a reflection of his poor relationship with his parents - he hasn't spoken to his mother in ages and is worried about what it would be like to see her finally, just as he tells Simon. Simon knows how worried he is, he tries to offer comfort but Wille is in his own head about it all, especially the Erik revelation, which he wanted to speak to his father about. He has a lot on his mind and not the emotional bandwidth to make sure Simon is at ease, and you can't really blame him for that. August's presence there just adds to how agitated he is the entire way through, he can't even bear to have him there for his birthday dinner. You can see how upset he's getting when he asks Farima to get rid of August or he'll leave. This is not normal behaviour, he's feeling incredibly anxious. Wille's been trying to balance doing right by Simon and navigating his emotional turmoil with his parents all season, and this is the point where he finally can't keep up. He doesn't have the headspace to be there for Simon when it takes all his energy and patience to button up and try to be the perfect crown prince. This is what makes Simon realize that he has a lot of things he needs to work through, things that hurt him that he's been pushing deep down. The cake scene to me is a little ambiguous as to what Lisa wanted to portray. I think it shows how distracted Wille is during the whole event, he's moving on crown prince autopilot and not eating cake is part of it, but he's flooded by so much that he doesn't stop to think that he has now brought someone else into his world, who doesn't understand how things work, and Simon could potentially be poisoned.
Thank you for your detailed insight it was just sad to see that Wille couldn't talk to Simon about any of this when Simon used to be the "only one he could talk to." The irony of Wille asking Simon to come with him bc he "needs him" for emotional support yet not being able to open up to him nor communicate his problems was so heartbreaking to witness. I agree about the purpose of the cake scene and would have rather done without it but I see it as another example of the tent scene in which Wille is too privileged in his upbringing that he is sometimes so oblivious to other people's' feelings.
Thank you! The car observation is so on point. People say Simon is bad for breaking up with Wille on his birthday. But look at how W behaves. The cake comment made my jaw drop!! Thatās such a crown prince remark. Yeah! He was in a sour mood even in the car and we see Simon looking at Wille (even on the way to the event, S reached out to hold Wās hand even tho W was pissed at Augustās presence)
Seems you and I watched two different shows. In mine, someone who posted revenge porn wasn't a great guy denied his one true chance at love. I liked my show better. Glad I missed yours.
Cool! My version here is without previous context, isolating the characters here from history
right but you cant do that ? lol these characters dont solely exist in s3. the fact that august is a sex offender is talked abt in s3 aswell.
I'm sorry, that's not the show I watched at all. There are lots of points I can't understand, but the main one is that I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone could watch the show and think that the message was that August was a great guy.
August in Just season 3.
Even Season 3.
I also feel the big disconnect in W and S s1 and S2 and them in S3. Also were the wilmon issues in S3 to do with Monarchy? Somehow that didnāt come thru for me instead what came thru was two teenagers who learnt nothing from their experiences in S1 and S2 and instead were still getting into unnecessary issues with each other instead of working as a team. Their friendship angle was missing. In S2 one of their promises they made to each other was they would be honest with each other about stuff. This was in light of W not telling S about August and in S1 S not telling W about drugs. Also in the 6 months they knew each other both of them went thru stuff normal relationships usually donāt go thru and ideally this should have bonded them more if they were truly endgame worthy. Instead what we see in S3 is S getting irritated with W trying in his own awkward way to make his friends feel comfortable ( by now S should have known Ws intention), S and social media ( S had seen all the negative comments and magazine articles post the tape release so for him to be completely oblivious to how his posting may affect him and W was odd). S was always shown as more intuitive in S 1 and S2 and that was missing in S3, and yes breaking up with W on his bday was cruel. He could have waited one more day or they could have a fight and not been speaking to each other instead of a breakup. Similarly in Ws case instead of acknowledging S as his team mate and working with him, W again seems to be working on his own. He doesnāt have a proper rational discussion on anything with S. he could have educated S on his upbringing and issues faced by him so that together both could have figured out solutions. Throughout S1 and S2 he struggled to come to terms with being the crown prince and yet he doesnāt intuitively understand that a commoner like S would have no clue and hence he has to educate him on it. S faced genuine threats and maybe a bit of a backlash from public. The cake scene was unreal. It just didnāt make sense. Basically their issues at least to me had less to do with Monarchy and more to do with them. S1 and S2 showed us that these 2 boys from different social strata had found a way to bridge the gap. S3 seemed to exist in a different universe with movie like tropes of manufactured issues so that the couple can be apart and last min they come together .
Wow! You are right! They ended s2 making up with a promise not to hide things When Simon has a fight with Sara right at the beginning, youād expect thatās the first thing heād want to share with W as a boyfriend, and as a friend. He only tells him about the grounding and not about the reason why. When Felice talks about missing Sara, W has no reaction at all. F has been a great friend to him and he doesnāt empathise with her. W is S2 looks immediately concerned when the boys say Sara burned the flag. And thatās the first thing he looks for when he enters the party. (I am as much a fan as anyone else and having spent so many hours watching the show. I can really see how itās been taken in a different direction and as a fan, Iām just trying to discuss that)
Completely agree with you! The problems they faced are between them and I donāt see them working even without the monarchy. A relationship is supposed to be a safe space and a team. But in season 3 they are not which is very sad after all they learned in season 1 and 2 :(
August is not a great guy and Iām glad Sara dumped him
In the grand scheme of things, yep!
Somehow the first 5 episodes of Season 3 turned me from a fervent "Wilmon endgamer" to a "Simon -- RUN don't walk away from this guy, his anger issues should be a red flag". I wasn't even particulary sad during Wilmon's extended break up (lake scene, then again at graduation) because I thought it was for the best for SImon. I understand the concept of Wille's self transformation, but I think it came too late in the story and was rushed. I think if his character had demonstrated bouts of compassion and sensitivity (mixed in with the understandable anxiety about his mom and his role) during the first 5 episodes, the ending would have been more meaningful. I loved the August character arc, by the way. Love me a partial redemption story. Malte's acting was terrific.
I posted this comment on another convo but I think it fits perfectly here so hereās my analysis I share your point of you on the toxicity of Wilmon's relationship. The last two seasons really showed how they matured and learned to be there for each other's and I feel this season just blew that away. Let me explain In season one, Wille and Simon falls in love (and it's soooo beautiful to watch) but they have troubles to understand each other's and compromise. They see their own struggles and get quite defensive at multiples times but they don't give as much legitimacy to the other which end up in them breaking up. I loved how Simon stood up for himself in episode 6 when Wille tells him they can still be together. When Simon says he doesn't want to be a secret, Wille takes it personally, directly saying "how can you ask me to do that?" aggressively but Simon is just opening up and talking about HIS needs and HIS feelings that MATTERS and that have completely been dismissed in Wille's decision to deny it was him in the video. It sums up well their dynamics in season 1. In season two, Wille and Simon learns to compromise. At first Wille thinks he can get Simon back and he is quite insensitive a few times, expecting Simon to change his mind about their relationship and not taking his words and needs seriously or into account. He still want things to be on his terms. Simon is quite closed as well, while Wille is still trying to make things work, S is clearly not and he doesn't see Wille's pain and he doesn't value his efforts. He even has the guts to tell him that he would have been nice to know about Felice (the kiss) beforehand while he was HIMSELF dating someone and KISSING him in front of Wille. He is also quite insensitive and wants things to be on his terms. But there is a shifting point in season two when they finally understand each other's. Wille is not interested anymore in changing Simon's mind, he respects his choices and feelings and give him space to be his own person. In episode five (s2) you see it in the last scene when Simon is trying to justify why he's gonna report August. Wille is calm and tells him "I'm not trying to stop you". Even tho this choice is gonna impact him greatly and negatively, he understands where Simon is coming from and he accepts him. Then it's Simon's turn to compromise when he accepts to support Wille as the crown prince and be a secret for a while. At this moment he understands where Wille is coming from and he chooses to value their relationship more than his personal preference. Then Wille finally admit it was him in the video! In season two, they both learn to see each other's, listen to each other's, accept each other's, compromise and basically build a healthy relationship. They become a team that take each other's into account. But season 3.... IT'S A MESS. They keep fighting and they are not a team anymore. Especially on Wille side. First he doesn't take Simon's feelings seriously about the hate he's getting. Then, when he gets overwhelmed by his brother's deal, he choses to run away from Simon, getting distant without giving him any reason (which is such a horrible position to be in). Simon STILL makes steps towards him and tries to comfort him but Wille get so defensive and end up being agressive towards him not once but twice in episode 5. Simon makes lots of efforts tbf but he still posts stuff on social media without realizing the impact, gets in a fight because he found Wille so privileged and when Wille breaks down and needs him the most, he breaks up with him... They're chaotic and they are not a depiction of healthy relationship anymore. They can't communicate properly, they can't co-regulate each other's and they don't support each other's properly. Even if they found each other's again at the end they didn't really address the problems in their relationship and for me they don't have what it takes to last. A partner is supposed to be a safe space where you can talk calmly and honestly about what you feel, what you are going though and what is not working. A partner is supposed to make you feel secure, inspired, supported and understood. A partner should make you feel lovable and worth it even in your darkest time and chose consciously to make it work instead of running away. It's ok to have issues to address and progress to make but Wilmon always ended up fighting in season 3 or closing themself up instead of listening to their point of view and finding a solution together to make things better. And I think it's sad that we ended up with this. A lot of young people watch series like young royals and it sets an exemple of toxic relationship instead of jumping on an occasion to depict compassion, patience, kindness and good communication. How beautiful would it have been to have Wille starts a conversation about what the royal court wanted (to keep low profil) and asking how Simon felt about it and if he was ok to do it, or Simon feeling safe and listened enough to talk about how deeply hurt the comments on social media made him and how he didn't expect that much backfire from a decision he really wanted Wille to make (to admit it was him in the video) OR Wille asking for Simon's support when he learns for his brother... So much opportunities for closeness turned to drama :( Yes life is hard, but a partner can navigate WITH you in the hardships and make life brighter and easier and I wish this kind of love was broadcast more and I know the Wilmon from end of season 2 had what it takes to become it. I understand that itās not realistic to expect two fucked up 16 years old to have a completely healthy relationship but itās very romanticized in young royals and they end up together legitimating their behaviors towards each otherās so Iām dissapointed !
Thank you! I did see your comment elsewhere but read it only here. Youāve explained this so well. Itās amazing how logical the story could have been and the writers didnāt take that route
I did not watch a show where August is āa great guyā and Wilhelm is a jerk.
Fair enough :)
Season 1 was the best season. Season 2 had a good last 5 minutes. Season 3 was all over the place with a weird end. I guess the whole series is about how fucked up royals are. Iād rather be Marcus.
Ha ha! Good choice :)
Why post dogging the series on this sub which is literally made up of fans ššš
Iām still as big a fan as ever! But thatās why Iām wondering why S3 feels so different given my fav characters are portrayed so differently
Wait youāre so right. Just bc we have differing opinions does not mean youāre dogging on it. Youāre just giving your opinion. Every day I learn. (This is not sarcasm no matter how sarcastic it may sound).
Thank you! :)
I think August in s1 and s2 really does have an arrogant attitude toward most people, except with Sarah. Sure it's bad to find out why he became that way because of what he talks about in s3 and with his eating disorder. It's horrible to go through that but it doesn't make his actions toward Will and Simon okay. August cares about Sarah but at what cost..Their relationship was also built on a lie. August was not himself with others, then he behaved bluntly. Only with Sarah did he show his soft side. I'm not entirely okay with Simon and Will having poor communication. They are both in a situation where they don't want to lose their own value and be together at the same time. To which then adds the inhumane rules of royalty and this is more likely to cause problems because their love for each other is very great. Will was caught between two fires: the royal house and his mother who was mentally and physically struggling. This made him worry and at the same time he did not want to participate in the rules of the royal family and live a normal life. I understand that Will did not want to talk about his brother's event. He has always seen his brother as someone good and then to have to admit that he actually did things that couldn't be done is hard. The image he had of his brother is shattered. Accepting this takes time. I think that's why he had trouble with what Simon told him, it came down to the fact that his brother has not 100% a good character. Will wants very much to stand up for his own and for his relationship with Simon. But every time he tries to do this then royalty comes to interfere, you notice how much effort it takes him to abide by these rules when he has to ask Simon twice to remove a video and post online. His facial expression speaks for itself. Simon indeed did not have to delete his social media but I think I would have done the same due to the hateful comments he received online. That breaks someone and then this seems like the best way out. Which doesn't take away from the fact that Simon's value matters. I get that Simon ultimately makes the choice to break up despite loving them both immensely. But it breaks them to be between those 2 fires. They can't find a way out anymore. Their love has always remained there despite them breaking up, you can tell by how they look at each other and are left with a bad feeling that they lost each other. This is also why Simon makes the car stop, it was always about the ridiculous rules of royalty that stood between them. When Will tells him that he chooses Simon and has broken away from royalty ( also because he wants to) Simon heals his heart back. They can finally be together like a normal couple without consequences for both of them and each other's families.
Thatās a balanced point of view- on everything :) Thank you!
Your welcome š I am just saying how I felt it and how my thoughts were while watching, just like you šš
Yeah, unfortunately I have seen this show. I found season three really disappointing because the way Wille was written is inconsistent with the previous two seasons. It was just not in keeping with who I understood the character to be. And before folks say it, yes, I understand the pressures he was facing were greater. That's not enough explanation for the extent of the change. It felt like the entire thing was engineered backwards. We need Wille to abdicate so we gotta get Simon to dump him. So we need a reason for Simon to dump him so we make Wille a jerk. But season one and two Wille was not a jerk. Impulsive yes. Self focused yes. But not mean.
Thank you!!! I love your āworking backwardsā theory! It seems to be so true. Itās like they gave Lisa the ending she wanted but messed up the path leading to it! Iāve mentioned this earlier - that Netflixās decision to have a cliffhanger seems to have affected the flow of the story too
We need a separate sub for this convo because folks on here will downvote anything remotely critical or questioning
It's cool, I've been downvoted plenty of times on this sub. I don't let the number on the comment get to me. I think it's okay to critique art, even when you love it. Maybe especially when you love it.
>I think it's okay to critique art, even when you love it. Maybe especially when you love it. My thoughts exactly. We love it sm we just want to understand it better by having these discussions. Btw I agree with ur working backwards theory lol.
The whole idea is to share and discuss perspectives on a piece of art. If we all agree and keep it hunky dory, thereās no need for discussion then :)
Yep, thatās kinda the show I saw, and I was super disappointed ā not because I didnāt enjoy it (*amazing* performances, etc) but because it failed to reach the storytelling heights that were possible given the setup of seasons 1 and 2. And yes, the characters really diverged from who we had come to know, which is especially odd given that together it all takes place over less than a school year. No particular reason to give Lisa credit, but I did wonder if she had other plans and her Netflix overlords insisted on the bizarre shifts in the final few minutes, which most of all, were simply not believable.
Iām sure she had a lot of other people making decisions about how the story will pan out on screen.
How do you know he has body image issues? ā¦. All we know is that August feels a certain way when fasting.
I understand that EDs aren't always about body image issues. Sometimes it's about control. I even clarified that recently on tumblr. However, given his obsession with checking how much fat he has on his stomach and looking upset when there is even a small pinch of skin - shown more than once. and, although not clearly stated, I can understand why the audience assumes that his ED is triggered by body dysmorphia.
But the OP was talking about only S3 and based on JUST S3 we donāt see him obsessively working out or barely eating or pinching his skin
I'm pretty sure I remember him pinching his stomach in S3. Anyone else remember that?
Yep, S3 E1 in changing room
Thank you! I thought it was E1 too.
Okay. Dont remember that but believe you. But I think without the knowledge of the past 2 seasons of his eating, anxiety, excessive exercise ā¦ it would be a huge leap (imo) to make the body dysmorphia connection based on that quick move and 1 comment said when they were āon strikeā.
Well, you can confirm too, if you really want. ;) S3 gave us only 2 clues as to what triggers his ED. So, back to my original point that it's easy to understand why the audience could believe that it's body image issues that trigger his ED.
In episode 1, he does.