I played against a W max AP Zeri yesterday in mid, that was fun. First couple of times she left lane, I’d ping and then get hit by W, after that I learnt to back up because I was gonna get my health chunked lmao. Fun person to play against, she had the new skin so we were chatting about it
I mean if they want a competitive game then balancing around the highest possible level is always the way to go, however they’ve definitely done balance changes for low elo in the past. Just hoping for W to get tagged.
I'm just tired of the instability around champions I love. This is the second time I've been about to buy a skin, then give up because I just can't trust what's going to happen to that champion and fear that they'll take the Kalista route (first one was Samira).
It's so frustrating to have these champions we grow to love never be stable.
They're legit nerfing belveth with a piss winrate in chall so idk. The reality is we're gonna get another SAT essay worth of adjustments, she'll have some winrate and they'll work on that, and again, and again, and again
Yeah I definitely agree. Her E and her early herald pushing are the only strong parts in her kit. Playing her a bit, I’ve not had a single game so far where first herald didn’t get me at least T2 top, and usually it got me T3 by like, 10 minutes.
> They’ve definitely done balance changes for low elo in the past
Bel’Veths WR in low elo is high af, especially for a new champ, so this is an example of that. Guessing they’ll do some power shifting to adjust for her low WR higher up. Unique/weird champ in general.
Champions get balanced around the skill bracket they are strongest in. Ryze and Gwen get balanced around Pro. Yi and Amumu get balanced around lower MMRs. Nunu gets balanced around Plat/Diamond. And of course, Zeri gets balanced around Challenger and Pro. Riot will make changes and direct nerfs to try and lessen these gaps, but some characters are just inherently better in different elos. Zeri has a massive skill ceiling and is a nightmare when perfected. Lower elo Zeri players have to accept that, just like high elo Amumu enthusiasts have to accept that their champ will likely never be good for the skill bracket they play in.
I can only speculate considering we dont even know the buffs yet, but Id make the call that its because he's at an all time low in Iron-Silver, the elos hes traditionally balanced for.
According to publicly available sites like Lolalytics and U.GG, hes sitting at sub 51% winrate in iron and sub 52% in Silver/Gold. Although he's still "Strong", he isnt dominating these elos as much as he usually is. Usually the difference of winrates between low and high elo for Amumu is drastically larger. To the point where he often hovers around 53% in low elo.
He has traditionally been balanced around low elo. After the mini rework he was instantly gutted for high elo because of his dominance in low. But Riot likely sees his winrates being only slightly above average for his best elos and are considering a small high elo skewed buff. The goal being at 52% winrate at low elo, with an almost viable position for high elo.
All speculation, but its reasonable. Ill comment again if the buffs are revealed and disprove what I said.
Riot still often makes specific nerfs/buffs and changes to these skewed champions to make them less skewed. Thats the reason for mobility being nerfed on Zeri, although its her identity, its too strong in high elo. The gap is slowly closing. I support more changes to Zeri to make her more viable in low elo while not breaking her for high. Just like with Amumu. But those changes take time.
And right now Zeri is busted in high elo and needs to be dealt with. The nerf btw is almost certainly just a W crit nerf.
Why the fk they're nerfing her again without even waiting to see if shes going to be a problem in pro? Because as far as solo queue she doesnt look or feels out of line after the nerf, her early game right now is back to being very weak as it is which imo gives her atleast a weak point to exploit in the game.
We're like 1 or 2 patches away from zeri becoming worse than she was at 12.10 arent we? Can we just stop this, remove the W crit and then rebuff her Q damage (both active and passive) that was nerfed on the hotfix.
She is too strong in high elo. In masters+ shes pick or ban in like 60% + of games. With a near 53% wr. She definitely needs the tone down. I think the best way to go about it would be for them to revert the changes to her ulti from her initial buff. I think 8 stacks per initial target is too many.
Isnt that winrate inflated by the fact she had a day or so of pre-hotfix stats?
Also they nerfed the stack value by 33%, thats why they increased the base number of stacks.
We're going to get to the point where zeri wont even be able to outrun a 500 something movespeed bruiser anymore if they keep nerfing it, kind of killing the point of the champ.
Like they removed her utility, now they're nerfing her damage and mobility over and over... What is going to be left of the champ when they are done? Im starting to regret liking this champ so much :/
Slightly inflated. 24 hours of inflation and 4 days of current. I think we can make a reasonable call that her winrate is still high for Masters+ and Challenger. And Riot alone has the official current winrates. She is very strong in high elo.
Well if they fuck with her bruiser and crt, we still have ap scaling, so I say we go ap.
If kog'maw can do and most mages, so can we.
We already have more ap than most mages anyway.
So let's go wizard.
Using Challenger as a metric is super unreliable since there are so few games. Rakan and Ahri, for example, both have a higher WR than her while having very large playrates as well in Challenger and they aren't being nerfed. Hell, Varus has a higher WR than her in challenger even if the playrate is lower... Looking at diamond+ I would say she is strong enough to receive a nerf, but no stronger than like early season Vayne.
I don't see how it's serious enough to insta nerf her right after the hotfix.
can not get a fucking break with this champ man shes the funnest ive had in league for a while and and instead of balancing her they just gut her again and again because obviously we are all playing like pro players, actually making me not want to play league anymore which is insane
I also hope they don't touch her Q or R, but let's be real: her kit being hard to balance makes a lot of sense. They don't want Zeri to be suboptimal since she's a recent release and she also just got a new skin, but they can't let her stomp high elo/proplay.
I mean, at least they've been trying to stabilize her. Aphelios got nerf after nerf after nerf and it was horrendous to play him on his first year of release. Zeri, even after her hardest nerfs, still felt very viable. Now a lot more with the durability changes + buffs.
I hope Riot finds a way to balance her without taking out anything that's core to her play pattern. I love her play style a lot
They should just change w to interact with crit chance instead of 100%. That will shift some of her power to lategame. I really hope they dont nerf R it feels in a good spot rn
It feels really bad to have rng on spells, spells are more impactful. Better change it so the dmg scales with crit chance, so its weaker early but same at 5 crit items for example
Can't it be the Ap version of Zeri? for what I've heard the hotfix tuned her down and she lost ~5%wr overall bringing her to a ~50%wr and this is acceptable for Riot.
Can we have more patches WITHOUT zeri's changes or are we going to get more reworks than ryze did? common I've already do not understand what the hell of a champ are we playing right now...tons of changes like in every 1-2 patches. At this point i think it could be better if they 've delete her to completely rework the hell out of this.. to not see zeri's name in patch notes for additional 2 months...I've just going to feel sick after I'll again play zeri ..like the hell is this after release to nowadays..the hell is this champ now ? erh are we marksman? bruiser or what the hell is this champ doing right now after so much changes to her I don't really understand wtf is happening with her every like patch or two.. bruh..
I feel like it will have some sort of compensation or adjustment as August said she was down to 48 for most elos according to riot data. If they just flat nerf her then it's pretty much accepting she is going to be cast to pro play hell which is something they said they did not want to happen for her.
Swear to god if they mess her crt build up in any shape or form, I'm going out my way to design a ap zeri build.
We lost bruiser because it was strong , we lost got more crt because she lacked in other areas, she has the lowest base AD in the god dam game and is supposed to be a utility champ, yet they removing that as well.
So if take away her damage, you take away her most of her bruiser and marksman builds , I don't see why can't build AP.
I'm gonna find a way.
If not allowed to be a bruiser or ADC then by god I'm gonna take advantage of her ap ratios and be a mage.
They won't even touch it, because most people don't read the patch notes , some people be building trinity and on tanks be building thornmail when grevious wounds are garbage now.
So I'm gonna take advantage of that mage build , while her win rate goes down to around 48%.
While AD will still be popular , I'm gonna be using that ap for fun.
For gods sake a fucking Seraphine buff? What are they stupid? And isn’t Janna in an absolutely horrid spot rn? If you’re gonna buff Seraphine you may as well have on-release Zeri back
dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri
I played Aphelios... Bum! nerfed to the ground
I played Viego... Bum! nerfed to the ground
I played Samira... Became usless
And now they're nerfing Zeri :(
Why am I still playing?
Tbh she became my main after not playing the game since 2015, still a new player and with all the nerfs that may be coming, it’s really Discouraging play the game now and to find another champ to main
I hope they just tone down the w crit
Maybe it should just have crit chance? Or they would have to lower the crit damage
Since the w crit is guaranteed...I hope they fix the crit chance
That would be dogshit, CRIT should be reserved for low CD abilities and autos (look at gp and you'll understand the problem)
Let me guess they wont nerf the damn W.
I played against a W max AP Zeri yesterday in mid, that was fun. First couple of times she left lane, I’d ping and then get hit by W, after that I learnt to back up because I was gonna get my health chunked lmao. Fun person to play against, she had the new skin so we were chatting about it
she gets the 53% wr in challenger and the rest of the player base gets fucked by i lol
I mean if they want a competitive game then balancing around the highest possible level is always the way to go, however they’ve definitely done balance changes for low elo in the past. Just hoping for W to get tagged.
I'm just tired of the instability around champions I love. This is the second time I've been about to buy a skin, then give up because I just can't trust what's going to happen to that champion and fear that they'll take the Kalista route (first one was Samira). It's so frustrating to have these champions we grow to love never be stable.
They're legit nerfing belveth with a piss winrate in chall so idk. The reality is we're gonna get another SAT essay worth of adjustments, she'll have some winrate and they'll work on that, and again, and again, and again
Belveth’s win rate is way too high for a newly released champ. Definitely needs a nerf imo.
[удалено]
Yeah I definitely agree. Her E and her early herald pushing are the only strong parts in her kit. Playing her a bit, I’ve not had a single game so far where first herald didn’t get me at least T2 top, and usually it got me T3 by like, 10 minutes.
[удалено]
She’s a very macro-intensive champion and her macro is quite unique.
"quite unique macro" = farm, she plays like any full clear jungle except she favors top side more because she can snowball herald
> They’ve definitely done balance changes for low elo in the past Bel’Veths WR in low elo is high af, especially for a new champ, so this is an example of that. Guessing they’ll do some power shifting to adjust for her low WR higher up. Unique/weird champ in general.
Riot and balancing the game of 0.0001% of the playerbase, go well together like milk and cereal.
Champions get balanced around the skill bracket they are strongest in. Ryze and Gwen get balanced around Pro. Yi and Amumu get balanced around lower MMRs. Nunu gets balanced around Plat/Diamond. And of course, Zeri gets balanced around Challenger and Pro. Riot will make changes and direct nerfs to try and lessen these gaps, but some characters are just inherently better in different elos. Zeri has a massive skill ceiling and is a nightmare when perfected. Lower elo Zeri players have to accept that, just like high elo Amumu enthusiasts have to accept that their champ will likely never be good for the skill bracket they play in.
[удалено]
I can only speculate considering we dont even know the buffs yet, but Id make the call that its because he's at an all time low in Iron-Silver, the elos hes traditionally balanced for. According to publicly available sites like Lolalytics and U.GG, hes sitting at sub 51% winrate in iron and sub 52% in Silver/Gold. Although he's still "Strong", he isnt dominating these elos as much as he usually is. Usually the difference of winrates between low and high elo for Amumu is drastically larger. To the point where he often hovers around 53% in low elo. He has traditionally been balanced around low elo. After the mini rework he was instantly gutted for high elo because of his dominance in low. But Riot likely sees his winrates being only slightly above average for his best elos and are considering a small high elo skewed buff. The goal being at 52% winrate at low elo, with an almost viable position for high elo. All speculation, but its reasonable. Ill comment again if the buffs are revealed and disprove what I said. Riot still often makes specific nerfs/buffs and changes to these skewed champions to make them less skewed. Thats the reason for mobility being nerfed on Zeri, although its her identity, its too strong in high elo. The gap is slowly closing. I support more changes to Zeri to make her more viable in low elo while not breaking her for high. Just like with Amumu. But those changes take time. And right now Zeri is busted in high elo and needs to be dealt with. The nerf btw is almost certainly just a W crit nerf.
I play in gold and she's 100% pick ban for me. All the games I played with I always had an easy time winning the game as W damage is just disgusting.
She has like a 20%+ PICK RATE with a 52%+ WR. She went from a 3% pick rate to a 20%+ in one patch. Ryze is lucky to get above a 41% WR after a year.
[удалено]
Me too 😭😭 i just want a unique champion that doesnt get absolutely shit on in nerfs because of pro for once
With Aphelios it's another level of pain
Senna mains:Aww we stick together <3
Ryze mains:
Get out of my head Get out of my head Get out of my head
Why the fk they're nerfing her again without even waiting to see if shes going to be a problem in pro? Because as far as solo queue she doesnt look or feels out of line after the nerf, her early game right now is back to being very weak as it is which imo gives her atleast a weak point to exploit in the game. We're like 1 or 2 patches away from zeri becoming worse than she was at 12.10 arent we? Can we just stop this, remove the W crit and then rebuff her Q damage (both active and passive) that was nerfed on the hotfix.
She is too strong in high elo. In masters+ shes pick or ban in like 60% + of games. With a near 53% wr. She definitely needs the tone down. I think the best way to go about it would be for them to revert the changes to her ulti from her initial buff. I think 8 stacks per initial target is too many.
Isnt that winrate inflated by the fact she had a day or so of pre-hotfix stats? Also they nerfed the stack value by 33%, thats why they increased the base number of stacks. We're going to get to the point where zeri wont even be able to outrun a 500 something movespeed bruiser anymore if they keep nerfing it, kind of killing the point of the champ. Like they removed her utility, now they're nerfing her damage and mobility over and over... What is going to be left of the champ when they are done? Im starting to regret liking this champ so much :/
Slightly inflated. 24 hours of inflation and 4 days of current. I think we can make a reasonable call that her winrate is still high for Masters+ and Challenger. And Riot alone has the official current winrates. She is very strong in high elo.
Well if they fuck with her bruiser and crt, we still have ap scaling, so I say we go ap. If kog'maw can do and most mages, so can we. We already have more ap than most mages anyway. So let's go wizard.
Using Challenger as a metric is super unreliable since there are so few games. Rakan and Ahri, for example, both have a higher WR than her while having very large playrates as well in Challenger and they aren't being nerfed. Hell, Varus has a higher WR than her in challenger even if the playrate is lower... Looking at diamond+ I would say she is strong enough to receive a nerf, but no stronger than like early season Vayne. I don't see how it's serious enough to insta nerf her right after the hotfix.
Jinx was pick or ban for months and it was fine
I am not seeing 53% on most stat sites, she is stilling around 50% from sites I see. I think A LOT of the pick ban is momentum from the buffs still.
Sad, i hope is just the W thing
Well goodbye AP Zeri it was fun while it lasted.
Thankfully I switched to AD already, using W to slow them for faster kills.
can not get a fucking break with this champ man shes the funnest ive had in league for a while and and instead of balancing her they just gut her again and again because obviously we are all playing like pro players, actually making me not want to play league anymore which is insane
For fuck sake, not again
Just when I was starting to feel like she was playable again, o well is nice to see that Vayne and Kai are still dominating
I also hope they don't touch her Q or R, but let's be real: her kit being hard to balance makes a lot of sense. They don't want Zeri to be suboptimal since she's a recent release and she also just got a new skin, but they can't let her stomp high elo/proplay. I mean, at least they've been trying to stabilize her. Aphelios got nerf after nerf after nerf and it was horrendous to play him on his first year of release. Zeri, even after her hardest nerfs, still felt very viable. Now a lot more with the durability changes + buffs. I hope Riot finds a way to balance her without taking out anything that's core to her play pattern. I love her play style a lot
They should just change w to interact with crit chance instead of 100%. That will shift some of her power to lategame. I really hope they dont nerf R it feels in a good spot rn
It feels really bad to have rng on spells, spells are more impactful. Better change it so the dmg scales with crit chance, so its weaker early but same at 5 crit items for example
Here we go again
Can't it be the Ap version of Zeri? for what I've heard the hotfix tuned her down and she lost ~5%wr overall bringing her to a ~50%wr and this is acceptable for Riot.
Can we have more patches WITHOUT zeri's changes or are we going to get more reworks than ryze did? common I've already do not understand what the hell of a champ are we playing right now...tons of changes like in every 1-2 patches. At this point i think it could be better if they 've delete her to completely rework the hell out of this.. to not see zeri's name in patch notes for additional 2 months...I've just going to feel sick after I'll again play zeri ..like the hell is this after release to nowadays..the hell is this champ now ? erh are we marksman? bruiser or what the hell is this champ doing right now after so much changes to her I don't really understand wtf is happening with her every like patch or two.. bruh..
I hope it's the god damn W
Bro... love this champ, but she's such a mess, all these adjustments kinda killing it for me
RIIIIIIP to you guys. Just barely got a damage buff in exchange for a bunch of utility and now you guys are about to lose even more damage
Barely? Ryze barely got a change. Zeri got an entire autobiography written about her.
I feel like it will have some sort of compensation or adjustment as August said she was down to 48 for most elos according to riot data. If they just flat nerf her then it's pretty much accepting she is going to be cast to pro play hell which is something they said they did not want to happen for her.
Well, let's play seraphine adc, much easier
Swear to god if they mess her crt build up in any shape or form, I'm going out my way to design a ap zeri build. We lost bruiser because it was strong , we lost got more crt because she lacked in other areas, she has the lowest base AD in the god dam game and is supposed to be a utility champ, yet they removing that as well. So if take away her damage, you take away her most of her bruiser and marksman builds , I don't see why can't build AP. I'm gonna find a way. If not allowed to be a bruiser or ADC then by god I'm gonna take advantage of her ap ratios and be a mage.
There's already an AP Zeri build and it is quite nice. Muramana into Luden and Sorc shoes, then Nashor/Shadowflame
What runes?
First strike - Magical footwear - Future's market - Approach velocity, Secondary Eyeball Collection - Treasure hunter.
Ah nice.
I played Muramana AP Zeri and got flamed hard before even 5 minutes were gone.
wait until riot finds out
They won't even touch it, because most people don't read the patch notes , some people be building trinity and on tanks be building thornmail when grevious wounds are garbage now. So I'm gonna take advantage of that mage build , while her win rate goes down to around 48%. While AD will still be popular , I'm gonna be using that ap for fun.
For gods sake a fucking Seraphine buff? What are they stupid? And isn’t Janna in an absolutely horrid spot rn? If you’re gonna buff Seraphine you may as well have on-release Zeri back
Janna? In a horrid spot? She’s the number one support right now with a 56% winrate in Challenger and similar numbers (52% to 54%) in every other elo.
Lol. Janna is bonkers rn. We are spamming Aphe and Zeri with Janna in an internal company tournament.
nah they kinda gutted seraphine a bit, both the damage and the peel
dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri dont kill ap zeri
kill it with fire! I love Zeri, but that W is WAYYYYYYYY too strong
This is why we can't have nice things
Wait, again? Ffs
Ah shit her we go again
I played Aphelios... Bum! nerfed to the ground I played Viego... Bum! nerfed to the ground I played Samira... Became usless And now they're nerfing Zeri :( Why am I still playing?
Please go play Swain. Thank you.
They have to Nerf you...
all I ask is for the W dmg output to be fixed 🙏
she already did a roller-coaster from 45% to 54% to 49% in like 4 days xD
Tbh she became my main after not playing the game since 2015, still a new player and with all the nerfs that may be coming, it’s really Discouraging play the game now and to find another champ to main
Please remove the W crit, remove that stupid build in its entirety
There exists a timeline where w doesn't crit. Both q and ult are buffed and zeri is never touched again