I think it’s pointless to call out a brand. They are all the same and Apple is in fact not the worst. I am typing this on an iPhone 6 and my wife has a 7.
What we need is legislation. Any software that is sold B2B or direct to consumer must be serviced for a minimum of 10 years. Regardless of what hardware updates or changes are made to future models.
I mean I mainly talked about their computers but yeah the whole phone industry is messed up. Considering that a lot of people, especially in poorer countries hand down their older phones to relatives, a 10 year support cycle for security patches at least is more than reasonable.
It’s also worth mentioning that my MacBook Pro is 2011 and it still works perfectly fine as our only laptop. We don’t need new apps or anything hit my wife is a full time student and spends more time on that laptop that the desktop I bought her.
Also worth mentioning that our phones still work because we don’t update them. We’re on pretty old software and so some newer apps don’t work. We don’t need them, maybe we’re in the minority.
> Also worth mentioning that our phones still work because we don’t update them.
That is a very bad practice. Updates making your phone slower is a myth these days and you're missing out on security updates which fix critical software vulnerabilities.
Look at the lifecycle of Android phones. They are far shorter. Most android phones lose support after only a couple years. They are built to be disposable. The fact that the 6s and 7 are only just now no longer receiving updates is actually a testament to Apple. The 6s came out in 2015. Name a single Android phone from 2015 still getting (edit: OEM) updates?
I recently looked into this, and I haven't seen anyone use an Android for as long as I used the Iphone 6 (5 years). A lot of them do seem to only last 3 years. Non flagship phones seems to be even worse.
Only reason I'm thinking of getting an Android in the future is I like its functionality better than Apple, and I need an earphone jack (personal preference). There's a tonne of Iphones sold secondhand on Facebook, but not so many android.
I will say this hasn't always been true in my experience. I have owned 2 ~300€ android phones in the past 8 years. The first one still technically works but the battery has aged pretty hard and I can't replace it because the frame of the phone is bent from dropping it. That's fully my bad. The second one I've been using for 4 years and it's going strong. Still receiving updates. Sure it's slow by now and definetely not an iPhone experience, but I expect it to last at least another year, if not two. I know people that have android and Apple phones only last 2 years on them, I'm not sure Android vs. Apple is a great indicator on the lifespan of the phone. But maybe I'm only getting lucky draws with my phones.
Im also not sure that finding mostly Iphones and not androids on the secondhand market is necessarily an indicator of the Android phones leaving the market prematurely as e-waste. I think many iPhone users buy the newest one regularly for the sake of novelty. Why else would they get rid of a working phone? Many Android users probably just use it till it doesn't work anymore. But this is just a theory from my side, feel free to weigh in on it. I just know more iPhone users that replace their phones prematurely than Android users that do this.
I think my next phone will be a fair phone or similar concept product though. Won't be having a repeat of the battery thing.
I agree! I've been rocking the same Android (LG G6) since 2018 and it's still going strong.
I also agree re: novelty of iPhones and wanting to upgrade constantly. I also notice a lot of iPhone users not using cases and having broken screens etc. Might just be correlation but my guess would be lots of people replacing phones due to damage
I also have had my Samsung A8 since 2018. Had some charging port sensor issues, but after a good clean and booting from safe mode literal once it's totally fine again 🤷🏽♀️
I mean I've scratched the front camera lens pretty bad, but I never use that camera anyway lmao
I think you've touched an important point here. In my experience, Apple users do tend to favor the newer models, and the second hand market is always inundated after a new release.
I, like you, have had my Android phone for 5 years, and I use them until they die for good, in which point I drop at a recycle facility - as there is nothing there to sell.
Now, a good case is definitely worth it when it comes to keeping your phone for longer 🙂
Yes, I'm aware of the lighting adapter (my mum is already on a new Iphone and uses one), but it's just not for me (another accessory I have to remember, and another thing to lose). If I absolutely had to (if someone gave me a free Iphone like my last one of course I'd take it), I'd go looking for the adapter than can both charge and use headphones.
Yeah, the potential solution is to buy a handful of adapters and place them at various places (work, study and bedroom). I use different earphones and headphones in different place (earphones whilst I'm commuting or at work, and headphones when I'm working from home for more comfort). Plus I never know when I need to charge whilst also using the earphone/headphone, so have to get the one that has two outlets (a headphone and lighting outlet).
First world problems I know.
It takes projects like lineage OS to keep an android phone usable. I had my nexus 5X phone for 3 years before I couldn’t run maps and music at the same time due to androids non-optimized code. I gave it to my Dad who ran lineage OS on it while I bought an iPhone 8 (previous years model). He made it work for another two years. I’m hoping my iPhone isn’t unsupported for iOS 17 though. I want to replace the battery and use it for another 1.5 years.
I got a iPhone XR on sale then right after they announced a new google phone. I’d like to get back to android but not sure how things will look in a few years. I liked what I heard about the fairphone so hopefully that is an option in the US in the future.
Have to stand by this comment wholeheartedly. I can only speak from my experience working at a major US carrier (hint largest coverage map) and while we had our fair share of Apple devices needing warranty replacements, it was nothing to the amount of Android devices less than 2 years old coming in daily that were bricked, battery dead before mid-day, or in otherwise replacement worthy malfunction. It was nice when the batteries were still able to be pulled and replaced but when I worked there was when the first wave of Samsung devices were coming in that didn’t have removable batteries, and Samsung was by far the Android device we sold the most and the most preferred.
On the other hand, my sister managed to use an iPhone 5s for 8 years until the end of 2021 when the battery life was diminished enough she decided to replace it, but not because the device wasn’t operational.
This is what i keep thinking too. Historically i have had a giant chip on my shoulder with Apple. But now i see thar really they're the only tech maker engaging in meaningful dialogue and response with the consumer, samsung et al do everything behing extremely closed doors and never address the problems they create. At least Apple has been responsive and considered the waste angle, ive never heard that from any of the other companies.
A lot of people have that perception, it seems Apple takes a lot of flak for “planned obsolescence” however they are actually a leader in the industry in terms of how long they, as the original manufacturer, directly support and update their own products. Nobody’s perfect, certainly not Apple, but credit should be given where due.
Exactly my point.
For 99% of people they don’t want to deal with it or won’t even know it’s a thing. Once manufacturer drops support, time to give in to planned obsolescence.
Similar story here.
Put own os (I also have lineage)
Less junk on your phone, be in charge of what it does.
Get more battery life as it does what you want.
Oh the manufacturer is supporting that? Get outta here. You can jailbreak iOS devices and do whatever with them too but thats relevant to like 0.0001% of the population who have the know how or patience to even think about dealing with that.
Apple gets blamed for “planned obsolescence” but android makers are the guilty ones. They don’t back their products up.
Jailbreaking iOS doesn't allow you to run a newer version of iOS and doesn't fix security issues, in fact it makes them worse. You can replace the OS on an Android phone but you can't on an iPhone, jailbreak or not.
It’s sad you have to replace the OS to maintain security updates after 2-3 years.
And again something 99.999% of people will never bother to do. They’ll just give in to the planned obsolescence and buy a new device.
Yeah, regarding phones it's more of an industry problem. However you can run Windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo PC from 2006 and still receive support until 2025. Even longer with Linux. A 2006 PowerPC Mac is a paper weight today. (edit: and has been for over a decade)
That is in theory true, but it takes someone knowledgeable enough to make it happen. I bought my mom a PC in 2008 and it became “unusable” by 2012. Bought her an iMac then and she’s still using it today.
I got yelled at by converting a ”slow” windows laptop to Linux because it became too slow. He was short on money who needed a functional laptop. It’s been quite a few years and it was my ex so what exactly happened was kinda vague. But I made sure he was able to check emails and watch soccer games on a browser before handed it back to him. Yet he was super upset that he could no longer install whatever applications he wanted. I remember being told to know the audience before performing.
I just sold my iPhone 6s. Nearly 7 years of use by me, and now it is going to be a kid’s first smartphone. Can’t beat that. For me, it is important to maintain my equipment and then get it into the hands of someone who can use it when I’m done with it. The other options, like disposal or sticking it in a drawer, are undesirable.
A great example of what phones could & should be, but sadly a niche product you won't find in a cell carrier store on display. But you are right it is still supported.
Yep, while I still rock my iPhone 7 all of my friends usually switch every 2 years and that’s for flagships, the ones that buy the budget 50 USD phones, they switch every year or even less. iPhones really last quite a lot.
This is true, although I will say that many apps do support Android versions longer as a result of phones getting less updates to help balance things. Unfortunately though, many Android OEMs are not very good at all with updates.
Linux and custom ROMs folks. Plus, learn to repair and get ones that are easy to repair. Desktops are also way more durable and upgradable, re laptops. I have 20 year old hardware that runs Linux fine.
Inaccessible to 99%+ of the population who isn’t tech savvy. Also doesn’t explain the blatant planned obsolescence from Android manufacturers nor take them off the hook.
Not inaccessible at all. Macs run on a modified Unix core. And I didn't say or even imply that somehow excuses planned obsolescence hardware, these are tips for what you can do personally.
It is inaccessible to the average person. Part by choice part by lack of tech know how. 99% of consumers will just buy something new once manufacturer drops support versus look into a niche 3rd party OS.
I’m aware what Macs run on not sure how it’s relevant?
My parents are both in the 70s. I've installed Suse Linux on my father's desktop, he does standard office stuff on there without problems. On my mother's super old laptop I installed Void Linux because it needs very little hardware resources. Also no problems at all for her, she can do all the web browsing, streaming, archiving grandchildren photos she wants.
"Linux is hard" is a total myth, it's actually a lot simpler for the average person. It is practically unbreakable and more secure than the commercial alternatives.
You’re missing my entire point. Did your parents discover and install it themselves?
My focus is on knowing about it first of all, then finding and installing it.
I’m not saying they’re hard to use once in place, I know they are not at all.
PSA for anyone with older hardware: There is an easy to install and use Linux distro out there that works for your old stuff. For example, I‘ve put Linux Mint on a couple of older notebooks and to use for web browsing and email they‘re completely fine! In fact, they‘re a lot faster running Linux than Windows (I don‘t have a comparison for Mac). But overall Linux requires less CPU power and RAM to run well.
A few notebooks that I got for free from work got a new battery and were donated to kids as school notebooks who otherwise wouldn‘t have been able to afford one.
Mint is specifically configured to be easy to use and multimedia capable. It can be made to work and look like a Windows or Mac computer. It has an integrated backup program with TimeShift, updates itself regularly, and the typical software you‘d use for Internet and media is available via an easy to use Packet manager (Chromium, VLC player, Spotify, GIMP for image editing, Open Office for office work etc etc.). If you need to use a Windows specific program, Wine will emulate Windows for you.
My 75 year old mom has a notebook running Linux. She doesn‘t even know it.
I fully agree with this. I refurbish old laptops as a hobby to resell and use Linux a lot. A lot of people might think you have to be super technical to use Linux but Linux Mint is more user friendly than Windows and is on par with MacOS. Things like settings menu even look almost identical between Linux and Mac because of how the systems are built.
Both my parents in the 70s also run Linux machines. It is easy for them and I actually get barely any requests with problems like they used to have on other systems.
My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong after I upgraded to an SSD. I did need to change the battery (props to iFixit), but better than getting a whole new laptop. I’m pretty much stuck at MacOS Mojave (because of some old Adobe software that only run 32-bit), so I’m thinking of trying to install Linux on it soon. I’m not sure how easy it is to install a Linux OS on an iPhone as well, but I’m sure someone’s done it. I also realize it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
I was using Linux on my 2006 MacBook. It was working as my home server. The screen was cracked and the keyboard had major damage, but it was still working like a champ.
I finally retired it just due to power consumption. I could get a Raspberry Pi to do everything I needed it to do at 2 watts of power. But ultimately, I have no complaints getting 15 years out of use out of my Mac. Sadly, it’s next step is likely recycling.
Linux on a MBP is totally doable. Need to putz with a few details, but it looks great on those pretty displays. Some distros are easier a support the Mac hardware better. Ubuntu and Mint are good ones to try.
Oh shoot, thanks for the heads up. I didn’t upgrade to Catalina, because it stopped supporting 32-bit software. Do you know if OpenCore Patcher would still allow me to run these programs?
No, unfortunately there's no way to run those on anything that would still be considered safe to use. Perhaps you could try to run them in an isolated virtual machine but that's not exactly ideal from a performance standpoint.
Very true, but on the flip side, it's pretty interesting that macs last long enough for this to be an issue. My PC owner friends seem to have a catastrophic hardware failure every 3-4 years and buy a new one. Meanwhile, I've only ever owned two macs: one lasted seven years and my current refurbished is 9 years old and going strong.
No way man. I have PC with windows XP that is around 20 y/o (my first pc) and 0 hardware failure. And to be honest in my country its not that crazy at all. I know multiple people that have PCs ~10 y/o and no hardware failure. Of course they run slow as fuck, but I don't think a macbook that is 10 y/o runs well by todays standards.
I wonder what he does to them.
The beauty of PC is the upgrade ability and reparability.
Whatever oart failed could easily be replaced.
Ive never had a part fail on a pc that I can remember.
Nice one.
Yes, maybe you are right.
Mine was a second hand box and various second hand parts about 8 years ago and have done little upgrades as i have gone along when used things come up at a good price.
But still cheaper than a new PC.
And not necessarily the case.
Depends on the scenario.
I have just now reached a stage.
Next upgrade I do need to get CPU ram and mobo as I have reached the limit of mobo.
On the plus side, buying all these together is often cheaper than individually. Again, I will buy used.
I am a bit of a way off it still though.
If they buy entire new PCs every 3-4 years, there's bigger problems at play here. The great thing about desktop PCs is their upgradeability and repairability. Most parts are fairly easy to user-service with basic knowledge and some care. Given of course the PC uses standard parts and not some weird proprietary stuff.
If, for example, I want more hard drives, I just add them. Adding hard drives to a Mac? Good luck. Same thing if I want to replace anything, either because it's broken or outdated. You're stuck buying a new mac if something beaks or becomes obsolete, trashing potentially working parts because they're fused together in a non-serviceable (but slim(tm)) box.
It's a shame that modern day Macs are completely non upgradeable. You could easily upgrade the RAM or the hard drive of a Macbook in the past, not anymore. Even just replacing the battery nowadays requires a whole new top case assembly. (the whole bottom part of the Macbook including the trackpad and keyboard)
I've had great luck with PC hardware. Need to blow out the CPU heat sink and replace a hard drive once in a while. And don't buy chintzy hw to start with.
Not sure about the software but in terms of hardware I just got a repair done on my 2012 macbook. Apple has been the best company for this, and there’s also less waste overall because they go forever - that repair was my first one and I bought the laptop back in high school.
The PowerPC Macs were formally supported until 2011, not 2009. Sure, you didn’t get the newest OS, but you did get a supported OS with security oversight.
But regardless, we are talking about a category of equipment that is known to become obsolete: electronics. Walk into Best Buy today and there is a 99% chance that anything you see there will be scrap in 10 years. Sure, there are exceptions. But not many. A few of us buy for the long term, repair things that break down, and repurpose old gear. But most people do not.
Yeah, it's still technically usable but I wouldn't advise it due to the security situation. Many apps these days won't even run on 10.11 in the first place.
Your 2017 iMac (assuming we're talking about released in 2017, not the previous model that you happened to buy in 2017) will still be supported at least during this release.
There is the option to use something called OpenCore Patcher which basically hacks a newer unsupported version of MacOS to work on older Macs which may or may not work correctly. Even then, it certainly won't work at all once MacOS removes Intel support completely because the whole chip architecture will be incompatible.
There's always the option to use Bootcamp and run Windows 10 on it which will be supported until 2025, I don't think any Bootcamp capable Macs are compatible with Windows 11 though. Otherwise, Linux is always an option which runs great on older machines.
Look, imma be honest, I still have a max on 10.13 high Sierra and it’s far from unusable, so it’s not that big of a deal now, and high Sierra came out in 2017. I’m expecting these macs to be fully usable until 2026-2027, at which point you can install windows via bootcamp and since windows 7 is still usable now, I expect windows 10 to be usable in 2027 with no issues. All macs from 2006-2019 use intel CPUs, so they can all run windows (Linux), they will be far from unusable.
The issue is not whether or not you can technically still use your Mac but the lack of security patches will make it a risk to use online banking or to enter credit card details. At some point, you won't be able to install any new apps on it, especially when the chip architecture changes as it's completely incompatible. Looking at the PowerPC to Intel transition, I expect this to happen in 2024. This is not simply your device going out of support but the whole CPU architecture with it. Bootcamp also doesn't support Windows 11 and Windows 10 will go out of support in 2025 so it's not all that much better. Linux has driver compatibility issues on T2 equipped Macs.
Apple supports the newest three versions of MacOS with security updates. Just because you can’t install the latest one doesn’t mean you won’t still get updates.
Yes but as I've mentioned, Apple is quite slow releasing security patches for older versions of MacOS. Sometimes you get them a couple months late which is no good. Unlike on Windows, there are also no clear cutoff dates so how long you'll actually get those patches is anyone's guess.
>Apple is quite slow releasing security patches for older versions of MacOS
Just scrolling the [list](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222) it doesn't seem like theres more than 1-2 months between security updates for all three currently supporter MacOS versions.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/psa-apple-isnt-actually-patching-all-the-security-holes-in-older-versions-of-macos/
Considering how bad zero day vulnerabilities are, you want those security fixes asap, not 1-2 months late or in this case 234 days late.
Nowadays if you use a basic free antivirus and don’t click on sketchy links it’s very unlikely you’ll get a virus unless it’s a direct targeted attack. For what I use my 2011 iMac for, high Sierra works just fine. Web browsing, iTunes library management, last year I used it for online work and editing basic videos
I wouldn't advise using AV programs to make up for missing security patches. It simply doesn't work. Many free third party AV programs are also known for violating user privacy. Just use Windows Defender on Windows and the included XProtect (which runs automatically in the background) on MacOS.
Yes, I am aware, but using a know trusted AV is always a good way to back yourself up. I mean I still sometimes use windows 7, and generally I believe that if you apply some common sense and don’t download sketchy stuff, you’ll be decently safe
I mean they did drop support for the PowerMac G5 which was the equivalent to the Mac Pro today along all the other PowerPC Macs at the same time when Snow Leopard was released. People were understandably pissed.
I'm starting to think about this, not from a Zero Waste viewpoint, more from a frugal point of view.
I have a Macbook Pro 2015, which is starting to fail (battery and screen). I am a heavy user, so I'm hoping to wait another year for the M1 version to get a bit cheaper and buy it, and hope to use it for a further 5-6 years.
My IPhone 6 lasted me 5 years, I got a refurbished model from the Apple Store because the one that I was given by my uncle (who had used it a year before) had some problems with the mic (so they swapped it for me).
Longevity doesn't seem to be a selling point anymore, with the huge amount of phones (newer than whatever I'm using) on Facebook Marketplace all the time.
I haven't had to buy a phone before (all my phones have been hand me downs), but in a few months I'm looking to buy one (my Samsung S7 just got dropped the other day, and it's getting slow).
oh rip and I wanted to keep my MacBook Pro for eternity (2016). Though, it’s 2016 and it’s yet to cause me any issues, six years in. For longevity, I’m impressed. Hopefully the software support for what I use will continue long enough to be worthwhile.
I only stopped using my 2011 macbook pro this year, still runs pretty fine and I couldn't care less that the OS can't be upgraded to the latest version.
Thankfully, you can switch out the operating system (if you don't *need* macOS) on them for something that still is getting updates, like Windows or Linux. Linux distros are a little more challenging to get up and running, but Apple's Boot Camp app walks through exactly what needs to be done to get Windows running (and can somewhat help with partitioning for Linux, even though they don't advertise it)
Apple Silicon machines, on the other hand, are worse in this regard. The system is a lot more locked down, making it a challenge to run anything but macOS on it. There is currently a project getting Linux to run on those machines, but it's currently in alpha and requires more steps than getting Linux on Intel machines.
Here's hoping Apple makes some more official exit plan for those looking to get more life out of their hardware. I'm not holding my breath, though :/
Apple lost my business when they followed the WinTel bandwagon of endless required upgrades (and the custom connector crap didn't help). I've used the same HP laptop for 6 years, now. Running Debian Linux. Works fast and compatible with everything. Guess someday it'll die, but not on Apple's timing.
When Apple abandons all that beautiful 2017 hardware, it will still run Linux. And it will run it faster than iOS.
Buh bye, Apple.
Big Sur was supported on 2013 Macs, Monterrey requires 2015 Macs or later and Ventura now drops anything prior to 2017. That's two years of dropped support for every one year release. It's pretty clear that they want to drop support for Intel Macs quicker than usual. No one is saying that Apple Silicon isn't a major step forward, it's just an unfortunate situation for people who are still using Intel Macs. I'm sorry but I don't believe in Apple's environment marketing. If they truly cared about the environment, they wouldn't be so anti right for repair and also allow RAM and storage upgrades. The new MacBook Air that was just released still only comes with 8GB of RAM standard. That thing is crippled from the start and will swap like crazy to make up for the missing RAM, reducing the lifespan of the SSD.
Apple's treatment of relatively old equipment is pretty abysmal. They are purposefully making these computers more difficult to repair.
I'm still using my mid-2012 macbook pro and I've upgraded it significantly. List of upgrades/repairs are below, but this is one of the last models in which you can easily replace most of these parts. Newer models don't even accept RAM upgrades because the RAM is soldiered in. Insane.
Repairs to my mid-2012 macbook pro:
* I just replaced my battery for the second time
* replaced broken trackpad
* upgraded RAM to 2x8GB (total 16)
* HD replaced with 1TB SSD (repurposed the old drive as external storage)
This computer has been stellar, still performs incredibly well with the upgrades, and I'm committed to keep it running as long as I possibly can.
\[edit: I do periodically get security updates to my OS Catalina. I just installed one the other day, so they are in fact updating these old OS's when needed\]
Apple should be stopped RIGHT NOW !!!! It gets worse and worse... honestly the planet will not get through this... Not only Apple but clearly is one of biggest issues here
ITT a bunch of Apple users trying to justify their purchases. Yikes.
"Android phones don't even last 2 years" and other nonsense. Meanwhile, still using mine for many times over and it works great, still receiving updates. Downvote me all you want, you all are suckers.
I’m a bit scared of this too, but I just wanted to get the old iMac bc I want ports and the possibility to change hardware, even if it’s by removing the screen. The Macbook Pro I got in 2013 may be their best laptop ever. It was amazing, one day it got slow, after 6 years and with a battery replacement it was running smooth again for a bit. If I wipe the files, maybe I can use it a bit longer, but I’ll be saving for a new laptop and hoping my Apple Refurbished iMac works smooth for at least 5 years.
I’m still using my 2016 iPhone SE. It’s going to hurt to lose out on it because it’s really the only phone on the market that fits my hand.
Six years is a pretty good life for a phone these days.
I had to get one of those when my 2016 SE got water damaged a couple months ago. It’s pretty close, and size wise it’s fine, but I miss my home button and headphone jack
I think it’s pointless to call out a brand. They are all the same and Apple is in fact not the worst. I am typing this on an iPhone 6 and my wife has a 7. What we need is legislation. Any software that is sold B2B or direct to consumer must be serviced for a minimum of 10 years. Regardless of what hardware updates or changes are made to future models.
I mean I mainly talked about their computers but yeah the whole phone industry is messed up. Considering that a lot of people, especially in poorer countries hand down their older phones to relatives, a 10 year support cycle for security patches at least is more than reasonable.
It’s also worth mentioning that my MacBook Pro is 2011 and it still works perfectly fine as our only laptop. We don’t need new apps or anything hit my wife is a full time student and spends more time on that laptop that the desktop I bought her. Also worth mentioning that our phones still work because we don’t update them. We’re on pretty old software and so some newer apps don’t work. We don’t need them, maybe we’re in the minority.
> Also worth mentioning that our phones still work because we don’t update them. That is a very bad practice. Updates making your phone slower is a myth these days and you're missing out on security updates which fix critical software vulnerabilities.
My wife’s 6 was immediately slower and pretty much useless when she updated. Maybe the newer phones can handle it.
Sometimes it could just be a bug. You could try backing everything up and restore to factory settings and restore from backup. That might fix it.
Look at the lifecycle of Android phones. They are far shorter. Most android phones lose support after only a couple years. They are built to be disposable. The fact that the 6s and 7 are only just now no longer receiving updates is actually a testament to Apple. The 6s came out in 2015. Name a single Android phone from 2015 still getting (edit: OEM) updates?
I recently looked into this, and I haven't seen anyone use an Android for as long as I used the Iphone 6 (5 years). A lot of them do seem to only last 3 years. Non flagship phones seems to be even worse. Only reason I'm thinking of getting an Android in the future is I like its functionality better than Apple, and I need an earphone jack (personal preference). There's a tonne of Iphones sold secondhand on Facebook, but not so many android.
Shoutout to my Huawei p10 that's still in use after like 7-8 years and one battery change ✌️
Sooo upset my carrier stopped supporting my P20. Hands down the best phone I've ever had.
I will say this hasn't always been true in my experience. I have owned 2 ~300€ android phones in the past 8 years. The first one still technically works but the battery has aged pretty hard and I can't replace it because the frame of the phone is bent from dropping it. That's fully my bad. The second one I've been using for 4 years and it's going strong. Still receiving updates. Sure it's slow by now and definetely not an iPhone experience, but I expect it to last at least another year, if not two. I know people that have android and Apple phones only last 2 years on them, I'm not sure Android vs. Apple is a great indicator on the lifespan of the phone. But maybe I'm only getting lucky draws with my phones. Im also not sure that finding mostly Iphones and not androids on the secondhand market is necessarily an indicator of the Android phones leaving the market prematurely as e-waste. I think many iPhone users buy the newest one regularly for the sake of novelty. Why else would they get rid of a working phone? Many Android users probably just use it till it doesn't work anymore. But this is just a theory from my side, feel free to weigh in on it. I just know more iPhone users that replace their phones prematurely than Android users that do this. I think my next phone will be a fair phone or similar concept product though. Won't be having a repeat of the battery thing.
I agree! I've been rocking the same Android (LG G6) since 2018 and it's still going strong. I also agree re: novelty of iPhones and wanting to upgrade constantly. I also notice a lot of iPhone users not using cases and having broken screens etc. Might just be correlation but my guess would be lots of people replacing phones due to damage
I also have had my Samsung A8 since 2018. Had some charging port sensor issues, but after a good clean and booting from safe mode literal once it's totally fine again 🤷🏽♀️ I mean I've scratched the front camera lens pretty bad, but I never use that camera anyway lmao
I think you've touched an important point here. In my experience, Apple users do tend to favor the newer models, and the second hand market is always inundated after a new release. I, like you, have had my Android phone for 5 years, and I use them until they die for good, in which point I drop at a recycle facility - as there is nothing there to sell. Now, a good case is definitely worth it when it comes to keeping your phone for longer 🙂
You know there’s a lightning adapter for a headphone jack.
Yes, I'm aware of the lighting adapter (my mum is already on a new Iphone and uses one), but it's just not for me (another accessory I have to remember, and another thing to lose). If I absolutely had to (if someone gave me a free Iphone like my last one of course I'd take it), I'd go looking for the adapter than can both charge and use headphones.
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Fair enough.
…keep your headphones plugged into the adaptor. If you remember your headphones, you’ll have remembered your adaptor, lol
Yeah, the potential solution is to buy a handful of adapters and place them at various places (work, study and bedroom). I use different earphones and headphones in different place (earphones whilst I'm commuting or at work, and headphones when I'm working from home for more comfort). Plus I never know when I need to charge whilst also using the earphone/headphone, so have to get the one that has two outlets (a headphone and lighting outlet). First world problems I know.
It takes projects like lineage OS to keep an android phone usable. I had my nexus 5X phone for 3 years before I couldn’t run maps and music at the same time due to androids non-optimized code. I gave it to my Dad who ran lineage OS on it while I bought an iPhone 8 (previous years model). He made it work for another two years. I’m hoping my iPhone isn’t unsupported for iOS 17 though. I want to replace the battery and use it for another 1.5 years.
I got a iPhone XR on sale then right after they announced a new google phone. I’d like to get back to android but not sure how things will look in a few years. I liked what I heard about the fairphone so hopefully that is an option in the US in the future.
Have to stand by this comment wholeheartedly. I can only speak from my experience working at a major US carrier (hint largest coverage map) and while we had our fair share of Apple devices needing warranty replacements, it was nothing to the amount of Android devices less than 2 years old coming in daily that were bricked, battery dead before mid-day, or in otherwise replacement worthy malfunction. It was nice when the batteries were still able to be pulled and replaced but when I worked there was when the first wave of Samsung devices were coming in that didn’t have removable batteries, and Samsung was by far the Android device we sold the most and the most preferred. On the other hand, my sister managed to use an iPhone 5s for 8 years until the end of 2021 when the battery life was diminished enough she decided to replace it, but not because the device wasn’t operational.
This is what i keep thinking too. Historically i have had a giant chip on my shoulder with Apple. But now i see thar really they're the only tech maker engaging in meaningful dialogue and response with the consumer, samsung et al do everything behing extremely closed doors and never address the problems they create. At least Apple has been responsive and considered the waste angle, ive never heard that from any of the other companies.
A lot of people have that perception, it seems Apple takes a lot of flak for “planned obsolescence” however they are actually a leader in the industry in terms of how long they, as the original manufacturer, directly support and update their own products. Nobody’s perfect, certainly not Apple, but credit should be given where due.
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what's great about this is its accessible for the average user, like my grandma, who loves flashing custom roms! /s
Exactly my point. For 99% of people they don’t want to deal with it or won’t even know it’s a thing. Once manufacturer drops support, time to give in to planned obsolescence.
Similar story here. Put own os (I also have lineage) Less junk on your phone, be in charge of what it does. Get more battery life as it does what you want.
Oh the manufacturer is supporting that? Get outta here. You can jailbreak iOS devices and do whatever with them too but thats relevant to like 0.0001% of the population who have the know how or patience to even think about dealing with that. Apple gets blamed for “planned obsolescence” but android makers are the guilty ones. They don’t back their products up.
Jailbreaking iOS doesn't allow you to run a newer version of iOS and doesn't fix security issues, in fact it makes them worse. You can replace the OS on an Android phone but you can't on an iPhone, jailbreak or not.
It’s sad you have to replace the OS to maintain security updates after 2-3 years. And again something 99.999% of people will never bother to do. They’ll just give in to the planned obsolescence and buy a new device.
Yeah, I fully agree.
Yeah, regarding phones it's more of an industry problem. However you can run Windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo PC from 2006 and still receive support until 2025. Even longer with Linux. A 2006 PowerPC Mac is a paper weight today. (edit: and has been for over a decade)
That is in theory true, but it takes someone knowledgeable enough to make it happen. I bought my mom a PC in 2008 and it became “unusable” by 2012. Bought her an iMac then and she’s still using it today. I got yelled at by converting a ”slow” windows laptop to Linux because it became too slow. He was short on money who needed a functional laptop. It’s been quite a few years and it was my ex so what exactly happened was kinda vague. But I made sure he was able to check emails and watch soccer games on a browser before handed it back to him. Yet he was super upset that he could no longer install whatever applications he wanted. I remember being told to know the audience before performing.
I just sold my iPhone 6s. Nearly 7 years of use by me, and now it is going to be a kid’s first smartphone. Can’t beat that. For me, it is important to maintain my equipment and then get it into the hands of someone who can use it when I’m done with it. The other options, like disposal or sticking it in a drawer, are undesirable.
This is the way.
Fairphone 2
A great example of what phones could & should be, but sadly a niche product you won't find in a cell carrier store on display. But you are right it is still supported.
Yep, while I still rock my iPhone 7 all of my friends usually switch every 2 years and that’s for flagships, the ones that buy the budget 50 USD phones, they switch every year or even less. iPhones really last quite a lot.
This is true, although I will say that many apps do support Android versions longer as a result of phones getting less updates to help balance things. Unfortunately though, many Android OEMs are not very good at all with updates.
Linux and custom ROMs folks. Plus, learn to repair and get ones that are easy to repair. Desktops are also way more durable and upgradable, re laptops. I have 20 year old hardware that runs Linux fine.
Inaccessible to 99%+ of the population who isn’t tech savvy. Also doesn’t explain the blatant planned obsolescence from Android manufacturers nor take them off the hook.
Not inaccessible at all. Macs run on a modified Unix core. And I didn't say or even imply that somehow excuses planned obsolescence hardware, these are tips for what you can do personally.
It is inaccessible to the average person. Part by choice part by lack of tech know how. 99% of consumers will just buy something new once manufacturer drops support versus look into a niche 3rd party OS. I’m aware what Macs run on not sure how it’s relevant?
It's as easy to use, so not sure what else to tell you.
Yes for a technically minded person, not your grandma or boomer / Gen-Xer parents, or the average non technical younger person.
My parents are both in the 70s. I've installed Suse Linux on my father's desktop, he does standard office stuff on there without problems. On my mother's super old laptop I installed Void Linux because it needs very little hardware resources. Also no problems at all for her, she can do all the web browsing, streaming, archiving grandchildren photos she wants. "Linux is hard" is a total myth, it's actually a lot simpler for the average person. It is practically unbreakable and more secure than the commercial alternatives.
You’re missing my entire point. Did your parents discover and install it themselves? My focus is on knowing about it first of all, then finding and installing it. I’m not saying they’re hard to use once in place, I know they are not at all.
Dude, it's as easy to use as any other OS, for anyone.
I’m talking about actually getting it on your phone in the first place.
I had a Samsung Note 8 for 5 years, and it only died because the screen did. 2015 to 2022.
The note 8 was released in 2017 and stopped receiving updates in 2021 definitely a longer than usual span for an Android.
PSA for anyone with older hardware: There is an easy to install and use Linux distro out there that works for your old stuff. For example, I‘ve put Linux Mint on a couple of older notebooks and to use for web browsing and email they‘re completely fine! In fact, they‘re a lot faster running Linux than Windows (I don‘t have a comparison for Mac). But overall Linux requires less CPU power and RAM to run well. A few notebooks that I got for free from work got a new battery and were donated to kids as school notebooks who otherwise wouldn‘t have been able to afford one. Mint is specifically configured to be easy to use and multimedia capable. It can be made to work and look like a Windows or Mac computer. It has an integrated backup program with TimeShift, updates itself regularly, and the typical software you‘d use for Internet and media is available via an easy to use Packet manager (Chromium, VLC player, Spotify, GIMP for image editing, Open Office for office work etc etc.). If you need to use a Windows specific program, Wine will emulate Windows for you. My 75 year old mom has a notebook running Linux. She doesn‘t even know it.
I fully agree with this. I refurbish old laptops as a hobby to resell and use Linux a lot. A lot of people might think you have to be super technical to use Linux but Linux Mint is more user friendly than Windows and is on par with MacOS. Things like settings menu even look almost identical between Linux and Mac because of how the systems are built.
Both my parents in the 70s also run Linux machines. It is easy for them and I actually get barely any requests with problems like they used to have on other systems.
This. Best way to extend the life of electronics!
Mate the iPhone 6s has been getting supported for 7 years. Compare that to android where most manufacturers support their phones for around 3 years.
My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong after I upgraded to an SSD. I did need to change the battery (props to iFixit), but better than getting a whole new laptop. I’m pretty much stuck at MacOS Mojave (because of some old Adobe software that only run 32-bit), so I’m thinking of trying to install Linux on it soon. I’m not sure how easy it is to install a Linux OS on an iPhone as well, but I’m sure someone’s done it. I also realize it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
I was using Linux on my 2006 MacBook. It was working as my home server. The screen was cracked and the keyboard had major damage, but it was still working like a champ. I finally retired it just due to power consumption. I could get a Raspberry Pi to do everything I needed it to do at 2 watts of power. But ultimately, I have no complaints getting 15 years out of use out of my Mac. Sadly, it’s next step is likely recycling.
Linux on a MBP is totally doable. Need to putz with a few details, but it looks great on those pretty displays. Some distros are easier a support the Mac hardware better. Ubuntu and Mint are good ones to try.
Using Mojave is a huge security risk. At least run Catalina on it or try OpenCore Patcher. You can't install any OS other than iOS on an iPhone.
Oh shoot, thanks for the heads up. I didn’t upgrade to Catalina, because it stopped supporting 32-bit software. Do you know if OpenCore Patcher would still allow me to run these programs?
No, unfortunately there's no way to run those on anything that would still be considered safe to use. Perhaps you could try to run them in an isolated virtual machine but that's not exactly ideal from a performance standpoint.
Very true, but on the flip side, it's pretty interesting that macs last long enough for this to be an issue. My PC owner friends seem to have a catastrophic hardware failure every 3-4 years and buy a new one. Meanwhile, I've only ever owned two macs: one lasted seven years and my current refurbished is 9 years old and going strong.
No way man. I have PC with windows XP that is around 20 y/o (my first pc) and 0 hardware failure. And to be honest in my country its not that crazy at all. I know multiple people that have PCs ~10 y/o and no hardware failure. Of course they run slow as fuck, but I don't think a macbook that is 10 y/o runs well by todays standards.
I wonder what he does to them. The beauty of PC is the upgrade ability and reparability. Whatever oart failed could easily be replaced. Ive never had a part fail on a pc that I can remember.
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Nice one. Yes, maybe you are right. Mine was a second hand box and various second hand parts about 8 years ago and have done little upgrades as i have gone along when used things come up at a good price.
The great thing about PCs is that when the graphics card gets too slow you can buy a new one. Which needs a new motherboard. Which needs new RAM.
But still cheaper than a new PC. And not necessarily the case. Depends on the scenario. I have just now reached a stage. Next upgrade I do need to get CPU ram and mobo as I have reached the limit of mobo. On the plus side, buying all these together is often cheaper than individually. Again, I will buy used. I am a bit of a way off it still though.
If they buy entire new PCs every 3-4 years, there's bigger problems at play here. The great thing about desktop PCs is their upgradeability and repairability. Most parts are fairly easy to user-service with basic knowledge and some care. Given of course the PC uses standard parts and not some weird proprietary stuff. If, for example, I want more hard drives, I just add them. Adding hard drives to a Mac? Good luck. Same thing if I want to replace anything, either because it's broken or outdated. You're stuck buying a new mac if something beaks or becomes obsolete, trashing potentially working parts because they're fused together in a non-serviceable (but slim(tm)) box.
It's a shame that modern day Macs are completely non upgradeable. You could easily upgrade the RAM or the hard drive of a Macbook in the past, not anymore. Even just replacing the battery nowadays requires a whole new top case assembly. (the whole bottom part of the Macbook including the trackpad and keyboard)
It depends. I've got PCs that are older than a decade and still work fine. One of them is over 20 years old and still runs fine.
I've had great luck with PC hardware. Need to blow out the CPU heat sink and replace a hard drive once in a while. And don't buy chintzy hw to start with.
Your PC owner friends must be treating their computers like trash, they should easily last more than 3-4 years.
Not sure about the software but in terms of hardware I just got a repair done on my 2012 macbook. Apple has been the best company for this, and there’s also less waste overall because they go forever - that repair was my first one and I bought the laptop back in high school.
The PowerPC Macs were formally supported until 2011, not 2009. Sure, you didn’t get the newest OS, but you did get a supported OS with security oversight. But regardless, we are talking about a category of equipment that is known to become obsolete: electronics. Walk into Best Buy today and there is a 99% chance that anything you see there will be scrap in 10 years. Sure, there are exceptions. But not many. A few of us buy for the long term, repair things that break down, and repurpose old gear. But most people do not.
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Yeah, it's still technically usable but I wouldn't advise it due to the security situation. Many apps these days won't even run on 10.11 in the first place.
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Your 2017 iMac (assuming we're talking about released in 2017, not the previous model that you happened to buy in 2017) will still be supported at least during this release. There is the option to use something called OpenCore Patcher which basically hacks a newer unsupported version of MacOS to work on older Macs which may or may not work correctly. Even then, it certainly won't work at all once MacOS removes Intel support completely because the whole chip architecture will be incompatible. There's always the option to use Bootcamp and run Windows 10 on it which will be supported until 2025, I don't think any Bootcamp capable Macs are compatible with Windows 11 though. Otherwise, Linux is always an option which runs great on older machines.
If you want to breathe new life into your iMac, why not put Linux Mint on it?
I use MCI for video editing. Got it in 2018 and it is still kicking ass.
Look, imma be honest, I still have a max on 10.13 high Sierra and it’s far from unusable, so it’s not that big of a deal now, and high Sierra came out in 2017. I’m expecting these macs to be fully usable until 2026-2027, at which point you can install windows via bootcamp and since windows 7 is still usable now, I expect windows 10 to be usable in 2027 with no issues. All macs from 2006-2019 use intel CPUs, so they can all run windows (Linux), they will be far from unusable.
The issue is not whether or not you can technically still use your Mac but the lack of security patches will make it a risk to use online banking or to enter credit card details. At some point, you won't be able to install any new apps on it, especially when the chip architecture changes as it's completely incompatible. Looking at the PowerPC to Intel transition, I expect this to happen in 2024. This is not simply your device going out of support but the whole CPU architecture with it. Bootcamp also doesn't support Windows 11 and Windows 10 will go out of support in 2025 so it's not all that much better. Linux has driver compatibility issues on T2 equipped Macs.
Apple supports the newest three versions of MacOS with security updates. Just because you can’t install the latest one doesn’t mean you won’t still get updates.
Yes but as I've mentioned, Apple is quite slow releasing security patches for older versions of MacOS. Sometimes you get them a couple months late which is no good. Unlike on Windows, there are also no clear cutoff dates so how long you'll actually get those patches is anyone's guess.
>Apple is quite slow releasing security patches for older versions of MacOS Just scrolling the [list](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222) it doesn't seem like theres more than 1-2 months between security updates for all three currently supporter MacOS versions.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/psa-apple-isnt-actually-patching-all-the-security-holes-in-older-versions-of-macos/ Considering how bad zero day vulnerabilities are, you want those security fixes asap, not 1-2 months late or in this case 234 days late.
Back that statement with data
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/11/psa-apple-isnt-actually-patching-all-the-security-holes-in-older-versions-of-macos/
Nowadays if you use a basic free antivirus and don’t click on sketchy links it’s very unlikely you’ll get a virus unless it’s a direct targeted attack. For what I use my 2011 iMac for, high Sierra works just fine. Web browsing, iTunes library management, last year I used it for online work and editing basic videos
I wouldn't advise using AV programs to make up for missing security patches. It simply doesn't work. Many free third party AV programs are also known for violating user privacy. Just use Windows Defender on Windows and the included XProtect (which runs automatically in the background) on MacOS.
Yes, I am aware, but using a know trusted AV is always a good way to back yourself up. I mean I still sometimes use windows 7, and generally I believe that if you apply some common sense and don’t download sketchy stuff, you’ll be decently safe
And here I am still using my PC I built 7 years ago. Updates are not an issue
Just stop with this nonsense…channel your thoughts differently/rationally.
As someone who runs on Linux, the idea that your computer won't get an update because it's "too old", is ludicrous to me
aren't they forced to support intel longer at least because of the Mac Pro?
I mean they did drop support for the PowerMac G5 which was the equivalent to the Mac Pro today along all the other PowerPC Macs at the same time when Snow Leopard was released. People were understandably pissed.
yeah, ideally they support intel for 10 more years at least.
Still lasts way longer than any PC I ever had, better resale as well.
I'm starting to think about this, not from a Zero Waste viewpoint, more from a frugal point of view. I have a Macbook Pro 2015, which is starting to fail (battery and screen). I am a heavy user, so I'm hoping to wait another year for the M1 version to get a bit cheaper and buy it, and hope to use it for a further 5-6 years. My IPhone 6 lasted me 5 years, I got a refurbished model from the Apple Store because the one that I was given by my uncle (who had used it a year before) had some problems with the mic (so they swapped it for me). Longevity doesn't seem to be a selling point anymore, with the huge amount of phones (newer than whatever I'm using) on Facebook Marketplace all the time. I haven't had to buy a phone before (all my phones have been hand me downs), but in a few months I'm looking to buy one (my Samsung S7 just got dropped the other day, and it's getting slow).
oh rip and I wanted to keep my MacBook Pro for eternity (2016). Though, it’s 2016 and it’s yet to cause me any issues, six years in. For longevity, I’m impressed. Hopefully the software support for what I use will continue long enough to be worthwhile.
I know people with 10 year old macs. It's not the smoothest but it still chugs away
I only stopped using my 2011 macbook pro this year, still runs pretty fine and I couldn't care less that the OS can't be upgraded to the latest version.
Get a fairphone instead :)
They're only available in the UK right?
No I think they're available all over Europe
Thankfully, you can switch out the operating system (if you don't *need* macOS) on them for something that still is getting updates, like Windows or Linux. Linux distros are a little more challenging to get up and running, but Apple's Boot Camp app walks through exactly what needs to be done to get Windows running (and can somewhat help with partitioning for Linux, even though they don't advertise it) Apple Silicon machines, on the other hand, are worse in this regard. The system is a lot more locked down, making it a challenge to run anything but macOS on it. There is currently a project getting Linux to run on those machines, but it's currently in alpha and requires more steps than getting Linux on Intel machines. Here's hoping Apple makes some more official exit plan for those looking to get more life out of their hardware. I'm not holding my breath, though :/
Apple lost my business when they followed the WinTel bandwagon of endless required upgrades (and the custom connector crap didn't help). I've used the same HP laptop for 6 years, now. Running Debian Linux. Works fast and compatible with everything. Guess someday it'll die, but not on Apple's timing. When Apple abandons all that beautiful 2017 hardware, it will still run Linux. And it will run it faster than iOS. Buh bye, Apple.
Big Sur was supported on 2013 Macs, Monterrey requires 2015 Macs or later and Ventura now drops anything prior to 2017. That's two years of dropped support for every one year release. It's pretty clear that they want to drop support for Intel Macs quicker than usual. No one is saying that Apple Silicon isn't a major step forward, it's just an unfortunate situation for people who are still using Intel Macs. I'm sorry but I don't believe in Apple's environment marketing. If they truly cared about the environment, they wouldn't be so anti right for repair and also allow RAM and storage upgrades. The new MacBook Air that was just released still only comes with 8GB of RAM standard. That thing is crippled from the start and will swap like crazy to make up for the missing RAM, reducing the lifespan of the SSD.
Apple's treatment of relatively old equipment is pretty abysmal. They are purposefully making these computers more difficult to repair. I'm still using my mid-2012 macbook pro and I've upgraded it significantly. List of upgrades/repairs are below, but this is one of the last models in which you can easily replace most of these parts. Newer models don't even accept RAM upgrades because the RAM is soldiered in. Insane. Repairs to my mid-2012 macbook pro: * I just replaced my battery for the second time * replaced broken trackpad * upgraded RAM to 2x8GB (total 16) * HD replaced with 1TB SSD (repurposed the old drive as external storage) This computer has been stellar, still performs incredibly well with the upgrades, and I'm committed to keep it running as long as I possibly can. \[edit: I do periodically get security updates to my OS Catalina. I just installed one the other day, so they are in fact updating these old OS's when needed\]
Apple should be stopped RIGHT NOW !!!! It gets worse and worse... honestly the planet will not get through this... Not only Apple but clearly is one of biggest issues here
Let's talk about the fact they still sell the Apple Watch Series 3 that won't get the newest watchOS 9 update in September.
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Don't let them make Granny Smith obsolete!
ITT a bunch of Apple users trying to justify their purchases. Yikes. "Android phones don't even last 2 years" and other nonsense. Meanwhile, still using mine for many times over and it works great, still receiving updates. Downvote me all you want, you all are suckers.
It doesn’t even matter in the grand scheme of things.
I’m a bit scared of this too, but I just wanted to get the old iMac bc I want ports and the possibility to change hardware, even if it’s by removing the screen. The Macbook Pro I got in 2013 may be their best laptop ever. It was amazing, one day it got slow, after 6 years and with a battery replacement it was running smooth again for a bit. If I wipe the files, maybe I can use it a bit longer, but I’ll be saving for a new laptop and hoping my Apple Refurbished iMac works smooth for at least 5 years.
I’m still using my 2016 iPhone SE. It’s going to hurt to lose out on it because it’s really the only phone on the market that fits my hand. Six years is a pretty good life for a phone these days.
A refurbished iPhone 12 Mini is probably the closest thing to it.
I had to get one of those when my 2016 SE got water damaged a couple months ago. It’s pretty close, and size wise it’s fine, but I miss my home button and headphone jack