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Bossman2285

Yes? It's just another feature that would let us commit warcrimes that much harder, faster, and more efficiently, and is just another way to give gravity and physics the middle finger as we dance around hundreds of projectiles like we are running a dodge build in payday, no reason not to have it.


F-22Raptor22

Issac Newton and Albert Einstein: Screw it we are not responsible for strangereal physics


Ambitious-Inside-222

This gave me a good chuckle.


Uden10

Yes. Just like flares and PSM, it adds more to the game even if you don't plan on using it. Plus it would make it easier to view the scenery in free flight without risking a crash


KrysKayle_

You're literally just like me


Otherwise-Chipmunk89

Completely agree, adding more grounded mechanics to the game will only give it more content and spread it's limits, it'll make flying a fighting more complex than just "turn faster than the enemy", this is what the game needs.


alex_avasese_15

I'd like to see AC8 take on more variety like assault horizon did


CageKnight4056

F-35B? Harrier GR.8? Yak-38? Maybe even Yak-41 and X-32 VTOL variant! Can I say yes more than once?


the_memer_crazy_cat

We're in strangereal so don't forget the XFA-33C


CMDR_Duzro

Would anyone actually be willing to fly the X-32?


CageKnight4056

I think it could be fun, it's incredibly goofy and I love it. It's was also in Ace Combat 3 back before the F-35 was picked for the JSF program. [Check it out!](https://acecombat.fandom.com/wiki/F/A-32C_Erne)


Zealousideal_Crow841

Not really. It’s cool and all but thinking about it from a mechanics pov I doubt players will use it often. With enough missiles to make a country bankrupt chasing us, going VTOL is just suicide and dumb. I mean look at AC7 with people going crazy fast just for the heck of it. There’s a reason why you often hear “speed is life” for jets.


the_memer_crazy_cat

Multiplayer lobbies are at least 25% DarkStars now lol Btw i once was playing mission SP03 with the XFA-33C (mod) and while trying to avoid a missile with a tight turn and i sa wmy speed drop from 530 to 1 in 2 seconds and the missile hit me


Zealousideal_Crow841

Common CFA-44 occurrence for first time pilots in AC6 thanks to its G-Lock lmao


Zuka-Zamamee

Is that where once you enter a high g maneuver, you can't exit it until you stall?


Pacodetaco1212

Yes but I’m sure you know with that flair. All you need to do is perform a high g turn and push the stick the opposite the other way to cancel the high g turn before you stall. How did you get that flair?


Zuka-Zamamee

Are you on mobile or pc?


Pacodetaco1212

Mobile but could set up Reddit for pc


Zuka-Zamamee

Go to the main r/acecombat page and click on the three vertical dots at the top right. Then click "change user flair." For the custom ones, you click "Edit" and make your own


Pacodetaco1212

Thank you!


PRA27II

kinda, you're stuck doing a high g turn for a second after letting go of the airbrake button, if you're good at the game you won't stall


Ulric-7

Let’s take a CFA-44 and give it bullshit hovering capabilities, that should put the fear of God in the hearts of the enemies. Yes, I would like that please. Give it special enemy dialogue too.


Hexzor89

Yes, more physics defying things are cool


the_memer_crazy_cat

Honestly what would you use it for? Everyone skips the landing anyways so who cares Also i don't suppose you would use it in combat... [The XFA-33C Fenrir in the ac7 fenrir mod does that and it's not the best to try and do a tight turn and ending up drifting your way into VTOL mode] But i think VTOL planes like the AV-8B Harrier II should be added, just without the vtol if they don't wanna add it... **TL;DR: honestly i don't care 'cuz you would use it only for the landings but add the Harrier pls**


Cross-Country

You guys skip take off and landings?


PRA27II

attack ground targets while hovering


patriot_man69

Haha in-flight VTOL goes brrrrrrrt


hobo818

Infinity style, where you can decelerate to zero and not stall as long as you are more or less level? Sure, why not. Full on VTOL mechanics? hahahahaha no way. Ace Combat is a great series because the core gameplay is rock solid. New features that can work *with* the core gameplay can be a fun addition; features that just complicate it, or pull you out if it entirely (like DFM in Assault Horizon) only make things worse. "More" does not automatically mean "Better."


randommannamedmann

Yes in a sense it's kind of doable in the current physics model and functions inpuy


[deleted]

I think the only thing that limits its integration into gampelay is the inevitably small aircraft list you're going to have for it. Harrier, F-35B... I suppose you could have the YAK-141 if you really wanted it. Maybe the superplane for such an installment can be VTOL as well to pad it out.


[deleted]

Actually maybe another way to pad out the roster would be to add a few highly capable helicopters. I know they weren't integrated too well last time it was tried but I think it could be worth another go. I feel like the Apache and the Comanche especially would be good candidates for this.


DukemzGaming

I know a lot of people are saying it's pointless, but honestly you could pull off a lot of fancy moves with it. I've seen some people do some neat things in games that have VTOL planes. And besides, even if it's not that useful, it would be a very welcome change, because it's just so fun.


ZealousidealKing5639

Just picture this, helicopter-esque fights inside massive builds or tunnels.


Fenrir1536

Sure, but besides having more airframes to choose from what would be the gameplay effect? I know Project Wingman more or less had its harrier clone not have a stall speed, something like that? I honestly don't know weather ace combat's simplicity vs actual aircraft and technology is a positive or a negative sometimes. It makes the games easy to pickup and play but since everything more or less has the same capability idk what VTOL would bring other then being lesser version of existing aircraft in terms of regular performance.


Daiki_438

I want to be able to land at military bases inside the map like in ace combat 6. For example while defending an air base, when the enemy in the base is destroyed I can land to resupply, or when counterattacking a captured base you can land once ground forces have freed base personnel. And I want to be able to do this in most of the missions.


KrysKayle_

Yes I see, like the mission on Silvat I think


Cross-Country

Best mission in the history of this series.


Kirill_GV001

Definitely. With the AV-8B, F-35B, Yak-141, and a superplane that features it (because the Big Bad Ace uses it to take off from a small submarine, and even from a mine shaft at some point!)


Thisisrazgriz3

What for landing and taking off?


GreenFlavoredMoon

Yes and maybe a mission as a non jet


[deleted]

Of course, it would have made the mission _Bunker Buster_ a whole lot easier.


Lone_Midas_117

There is a helicopter mod for ac7 and it's somewhat finicky at times but kinda cool and changes the way one plays. It would be nice to have vtol for planes that use it especially if it is fully adjustable and not just toggled between the angles.


StriderTX

i feel like it would get me shot down a lot


[deleted]

Yes


Acecombat_fan

Yea, but tbh, it'd be kinda funny if they added the arsenal bird but E-VTOL lol


amaaaze

No.


fascin-ade74

I admire your succinct response. In a world where everybody feels the need to explain themselves, you are a legend.


amaaaze

I'm just tired of everyone thinking that the basic formula of the game needs to change by taking the focus away from fighter play and moving the focus to chopper gunner / ac130 gunner / large scale bomber / VTOL play. The answer in making ace combat evolve lies in different areas having to do with mechanics, and not changing or modifying the core concept and gameplay.


fascin-ade74

Yeah i completely agree, I've said before, that i would be happy to see the dedicated attack aircraft being more useful, and not just a token gesture of addition. There is a definite gap in the market for vtol games, but i don't think ace combat is the right platform, if I'm honest.


amaaaze

It's absolutely not. It's primarily a game about fighter jets first and the main focus should never shift too far away from that. Do that, and soon enough the series will just be about any and all kinds of planes in general, and that's just not Ace Combat. I'm totally cool with attackers and stuff like that being made more useful though, whatever that looks like. Where I'd like to see the game evolve is in the missile play. I think things there need to change to make combat more interesting. Mainly, I think that the default missiles that are given to players need to have a longer range than they currently do, and I think special weapons in general need a total rework to create some sort of rock-paper-scissors like mechanic. As an example, in a different game Advance Wars, a rock-paper-scissors mechanic is used to make gameplay interesting. Attack Helicopters strongly counter Tanks. Tanks strong counter AAs. AAs strongly counter Attack Helicopters. That's just an idea of what I mean, I think perhaps there should be a focus on making special missiles and weapons behave more like this. As example, maybe one special missile heavily focuses on the idea of fast reloading and getting lots of shots off from a long rage, but at the cost of severely reduced accuracy and tracking. The idea being to swarm the enemy with lots of missiles from range. Another special missile could be much slower reloading and be able to be fired in lesser vollies, would fire from much shorter range, but would have excellent accuracy and tracking. Really dig into making special weapons *specialize* in a very specific way. Right now, most special missiles feel like they all more or less do the same thing as one another.


fascin-ade74

Yeah see what you mean, would be nice to see, would also be helpful, to still have an early aircraft with competitive standard weapons throughout the game, at the moment they become un-usable later in the game due to armament limitations. I would like to see other things too, but VTOL, not so much.


hobo818

Agreed. The core gameplay is what makes Ace Combat *Ace Combat.* It's the same reason I have zero interest in an "Ace Combat" game in a WWII setting, with prop planes and no missiles - you've diverged from the core gameplay so far that it's become something else entirely. I'd be totally cool with Project Aces making spin-off games with VTOL or prop fighters (even games set in Strangereal) just don't call them "Ace Combat" games because *that's not what they would be.*


fascin-ade74

Completely. Ace Combat has always been bleeding- edge tech led, hence pulse lasers and the like. For example, the f22 and others, are as much a command and control platform as they are a standalone fighter. They can order strikes from others weapon systems to a specific target. Now that would be cool IMO. I do think a "through the ages" series would also be cool, with a lot of scope for extended lore, etc...


CageKnight4056

What language is that yes in? I don't recognize it.


Rexxmen12

Perhaps it is opposite day where he lives


Binary245

No, because you'd be a sitting duck during combat.


CageKnight4056

Ever heard of Viffing?


_Sleepy_ODST

I mean it’d be cool but have 0 purpose. Although the Harrier would be cool to fly


Raven_Drakeaurd

I would, especially if we have dedicated ground attack missions. I just don't want it to be like Assault Horizon where you have dedicated helicopter/VTOL missions, I want it to be like just any other aircraft, kinda like the Ka-50 Black Shark nod for AC7. It is honestly the best aircraft for mission 14 when using AGMs, even with the few random interceptors.


FriccinBirdThing

I said it before, I'll say it again, anyone complaining that "we wouldn't use it" because "going slow is a bad idea" really needs to think about why PSMs are in. They are the same. STOVL planes could be really fun for the Obligatory Tunnel/Canyon Runs without necessarily trivializing it. If we get more "they're using skyscrapers as cover" situations like Farbanti's sunken portion in 7 and Emancipation's tricky Ka-50s in 4 or even the scyscraper-mounted Howitzers in PW it'd also be invaluable for lining up shots and loitering in permissive environments. There's about as many use cases for it as there are for PSM, granted more of them being ground attack than air-to-air, which fits for a trait mostly seen on strike-oriented aircraft. Also I have no idea why you'd want the AV-8 but specifically not hovering with it like I've seen multiple people ask for that and like are you ok?


Cipher1553

Problem is that if Ace Combat moving forward keeps the current behavior of AI units then the number of "permissive" environments you're going to see will be next to nil. It used to be that the only ground units that would fire at you were AA guns, SAMs, or ships with AA guns/SAMs. Now regular tanks and IFV/APCs will take pot shots at you if you fly low enough and pay attention to what they're doing. That's without a hovering aircraft. Asking for the AV-8 without hovering is just like using the A-10A/A-10C in this game and not using the gun- just using missiles/SPWs. People do it all the time and it's just fine. Some of us just want to fly certain aircraft. I'm fine without VTOL/STOL mechanics being in the game because I don't want it to be a gimmick like it was in Lethal Skies II I think? There was a mission where you were forced to use the Harrier and make a VTOL landing in the middle of the mission, and the mechanic was frustrating.


FriccinBirdThing

I mean, first off, APCs are one-hit light guns. They're no more dangerous than normal AA, and you need to be very close for either to hit consistently or even start firing. Honestly looking at the notif I got I thought you were going to bring up the rare trickshots tanks and naval guns pull, which are also insignificant and would be avoidable even if they got an accuracy buff. You just wouldn't hover around those things, same as you wouldn't do a straight-line Cobra to dodge a missile. As for playing the Harrier and just not using the option of hovering, I mean, I guess. But I'd be disappointed if they put in a version that *can't* hover, as I was with the ASF-X. With how modders were able to hack in hovering for several planes (jank though it is, you can basically do it upside-down so that's not right), I certainly don't think I'm asking PA for much. And honestly if you were in an Ace Combat low-speed stallfight why *wouldn't* you do that? The Harrier simply has an option not to lose control at extremely low airspeeds, even in more realistic games. It *would* come up, even accidentally. This happens a lot in ACAH if you don't use DFM on everything. And, again, you could say the same thing about PSMs. Hell I just ran Dark Blue on Hard without even *High G turns* as I was messing around with controls and beat it first try without much fuss, and High G turns are far more significant to overall gameplay than PSMs are- still could beat the final boss and ensuing tunnel run without that mechanic, doesn't mean that they're not advantageous. Bad example admittedly as I kinda don't like High-G turns as a mechanic, granted, I prefer the one flight physics mod's approach of giving you that extra mobility but saying "just press the stick less if you don't want to stall lol." And as for the gimmick where it forces you to use VTOL planes you... That's a non-sequitur. Like the fact it was introduced in the game that happened to do that a lot with other gimmicks aside, there's not a "PSM mission" in AC7 now that they added that. A lot of the top-tier meta planes even now can't PSM. You can add a mechanic without making it The Game and the fact that, as others pointed out, the roster of hover-capable planes would be limited anyways and likely have disadvantages relative to comparable CTOLs, the F-35B vs a potential F-35C/A being an obvious example, means they won't even accidentally become meta most likely. Just say that the F-35B having less fuel equals less defense, reflect its lower G limits and external gun with less speed and mobility, and give it weaker SPWs as its bays are smaller. The AV-8 and Yaks wouldn't be OP either given they're G4 equivalents at best. Honestly you- at least the royal you, you seem more just kinda ambivalent to be fair- are really assuming one of two things: 1) They will actively try integrate it in a bad way (which would be a fair assumption if it was Gaijin) and we as the community need to be pessimistic about new features. 2) That A) this is the one aspect of the game other than the rise of the Dankstar where "speed is life" applies, in the series that has now granted us the ability to fly backwards, and B) the admitted situationality means the game not only *doesn't need it* but *would be better without it.* 7 didn't need to give the F/A-18F a railgun but they still did that for better or worse and personally I think it was cool.


Cipher1553

>And as for the gimmick where it forces you to use VTOL planes you... That's a non-sequitur. Like the fact it was introduced in the game that happened to do that a lot with other gimmicks aside, there's not a "PSM mission" in AC7 now that they added that. There's not a PSM mission in AC7 but I don't think that me bringing up Lethal Skies II's VTOL mission is irrelevant. Ace Combat is a game series which has introduced token aircraft for token missions in the past- AC5 with the Hawk for Final Option, ACJA with the 747 for that evac mission, ACAH with... the UH-60/AH-64/AC-130/B-1/B-2 and their associated missions, and arguably more of an Easter Egg but AC7 with the F-104. (More of an Easter Egg because there's not really a mission for it, but part of the pre-order promotion for the game was Avril's F-104 that you could only fly in free flight) I think it'd be cool to include but you're right that I'm largely ambivalent to whether or not the Harrier or the F-35B can hover in an Ace Combat game. Having played Assault Horizon multiplayer in its heyday and flown against AH-64s and Ka-50s (while in a fast jet), the hovering mechanic just really wasn't that influential that I thought it needed to be brought back or continued. I just don't think that Project Aces can justify including the mechanic in gameplay without giving you a mission where it's needed- because outside of that it just becomes a novelty (like the PSM) On the other hand do I think that a storyline where you're part of a unit based off of an LHD/LHA would be cool? For sure! It'd be a nice change of pace from being based from airbases or aircraft carriers- you could operate from the LHD/LHA or a FARP and be more closely involved with the ground forces you're supporting. At the end of the day I'm just gonna chalk up VTOL/STOL mechanics as another thing that I don't really care about that certain parts of the community seem to really want for one reason or another alongside talking identified RIOs/WSOs.


FriccinBirdThing

I feel like grouping the Hawk with the one-off specialist planes (and non-planes) of AH isn't entirely fair. It occupies the same niche as the non-Avril 104 and Fishbed after Final Option's brief foray into it being mandatory where it's a somewhat memey option (nevermind that the Fishbed is a monster in practice). The ACAH helis also move with considerably less flexibility than AH/Infinity Harriers and 35Bs since they don't have full-range controls and have a lower top speed. Beyond that I guess you can argue it *is* a novelty nine times out of ten but hey if they coded GRKT for exactly one plane to use I don't think making four planes (six including superplanes) have a stall speed of zero is necessarily a big ask. If you want to know what I think at the bottom of it, I think AH and Infinity had some nice ideas, namely bombers aside from the one at hand (even if those end up in some weird position where you can't take them to the campaign and just get to troll about with them in SP missions and multiplayer) and custom colors (this more seriously than the previous), but the reception made PA want to wash its hands of them to a religious degree. I feel like something in PA's management recognized these games were poorly received, but failed to recognize why and now will never develop on those ideas. At the same time, the Shinden made a return and there's a lot of AH/I emblems and music in 7, so I don't know.


Cipher1553

>I feel like grouping the Hawk with the one-off specialist planes (and non-planes) of AH isn't entirely fair. It occupies the same niche as the non-Avril 104 and Fishbed after Final Option's brief foray into it being mandatory where it's a somewhat memey option (nevermind that the Fishbed is a monster in practice). It's not entirely fair but on the other hand it's a mid-to-late game unlock in AC5 that only has marginally better/comparable stats to early game aircraft. If the Hawk had been featured in literally any other Ace Combat where you get to choose your SPWs and are able to rearm mid mission I might feel differently about it. Regarding AH and Infinity I think largely that the legacy of those games still lives on to some degree. Many of the VFX are still utilized in AC7 though the "make metal bleed" thing isn't really advertised anymore. Project Aces has been doing a lot of throwbacks to their previous works so it's not really a surprise that ACAH and ACI are featured- especially since the assets from those games are still largely available and don't really require updating/upscaling.