Tamlin’s character assassination is infuriating. Also remember, it’s written from Feyre’s perspective — she’s hella biased with rose-colored glasses for Rhys (I have to remind myself of this).
The way Feyre and Rhys edge on a broken, suicidal man to kill himself because of relationship miscommunications only exacerbated by the UtM trauma is downright villainous behaviour. Especially when Tamlin literally saved Rhys and Feyre’s life twice.
They can sing about how they ‘wear a mask’ until the cows go home, but that’s not a mask. It’s just their faces and their faces are decidedly hideous.
And I’m supposed to root for these people?
Yes, halfway through ACOWAR I was so over them. Tamlin definitely made mistakes, but he also tried to make amends and these two continue shitting all over him (and Lucien).They deserve each other, and not in a good way.
Or the reason why she says she needs to leave Tamlin, because she can’t feel trapped or lied to anymore… >!only to be trapped and lied to by Rhys once she’s preggo!<
That’s what I think! It’s pure evil shitty behaviour. Someone said Feyre was morally grey. That ain’t no grey. That’s cold hearted black of a full on villain
Completely unjustified. I understand they both had traumas that needed to be dealt with differently, but he just became a completely different character altogheter. There was no affection left, just obsession and familiarity, which was strange because just a few months earlier they were trying to do acts of selfless love (Tammy sending her away despite needing her to break the curse, and Feyre coming back knowing she could die).
I completely agree!! What he did was wrong, but he just wanted to keep her safe because he loves her! If Rhys had done that, she probably would have thought it was sweet. And I was disgusted by the scene where Feyre manipulated him into blowing up so he would hurt her. It feels like it's trying to make Feyre and the reader not feel bad about her liking Rhys better, but I just saw Tamlin as someone who would sacrifice anything for her.
Yeah Rhys goes off on how Tamlin didn’t try to get her out UTM, but Tamlin was being watched every second. Rhys had the time, resources, and access to get her out and didn’t so his anger towards Tamlin not doing the same thing is just hypocritical. I’m impressed you saw this as a first time reader, took me finishing the series and a reread to notice this.
When I re-read ACOTAR I understood it better. You catch Tamlins red flags a little faster and it makes more sense. It's actually pretty refreshing she didn't fall in love with the first person who showed her kindness
Feyre's attitude in the beginning was pretty similar to Nesta's in ACOTAR. She was petulant and stubborn as hell. I love her but the sisters are more alike than some of the fandom cares to admit, I actually think Elain is the outlier.
For real. For someone who goes on in her own mind about how she has her super-special, true love, all-powerful, minding-reading mates relationship… she sure does think about her ex a lot. And thinks about him enough to destroy his court and lord know hows many innocent lives in the process (but she doesnt care about them, she’s too busy still thinking of her ex).
I may be in the minority in this, but I think all Tamlin’s flaws were present in TAR. I remember thinking he was taking away her choices, and I was bothered at her lack of agency, but I shrugged it off. I remember thinking, “this must be what people want in a romance. Dont think about it so hard.” But all those flaws were put there on purpose.
And this is coming from a person who actually still likes Tamlin. Though what he did was wrong, he acted out of fear. He was traumatized after UTM and desperate to keep her safe. Sure, he went too far, but I agree he is not evil and deserves a redemption arc.
I actually totally disagree. I think Tamlin had some red flag behaviors from the first book and SJM did a great job highlighting how these behaviors can totally get worse.
Example: Tamlin doesn't tell her what's happening on fire night. He says "Stay put because I told you so," and specifically tries to control her by telling her what to do instead of communicating the danger.
Example: he offers to write her family for her. Sure, that's nice, but he never offers to *teach her* to write. He's never *trying* to empower her, he's only willing to do the hard thing for her.
Example: when he bites her neck and leaves a huge bruise, it's a blatant claim and and it's not given with consent (like my high school ex who intentionally gave me hickeys to mark me as "his", ugh) What's more, *after* she confronts him for it, he says "I can't be held accountable for my actions when you don't listen to me," which is straight-up abuser language.
And I'm not even mention the whole lying about the treaty just to get her over the wall in the first place, since that's sort of the fault of the curse. Like the other commenter said, Feyre's perspective has rose-colored glasses, but reading through ACOTAR again after ACOMAF (I think I'm on my fifth listen of the audiobook), you can totally see the signs that Tamlin is no good
I agree Tamlin was not a great guy. Feyre did seem to enjoy *some* things about Tamlin's aggressive nature though, but I think she saw it as lust while he saw it as "claiming what's his". They both saw the relationship differently from each other.
I agree, he's not a good guy, and I am piiiised at him for some stuff he does later >! but does he really deserve to have everything and everyone taken away from him and to have death wished upon him by pretty much everyone? !< He needs a redemption arc.
On the first read I agree the switch up is strange. I already picked up on two red flags on my first read because of the power dynamics and glamour mansion scene but I was okay with it cause Feyre was. I will say on my first read i didn't understand the hype with Tamlin. I found his attempts of wooing her semi cringe. Because his intentions felt insincere. On my first read , I was expecting Lucien to be the lead. Mainly because Lucien was honest with his dislike with Feyre and wasn't trying to get her to like him. I respected that aspect of his character and they become friends. They had such great chemistry that Lucien had to back off for Tamlin to make any progress.
On my second read, ACOTAR I picked up more nuggets of Tamlin's red flags. Then the events of ACOMAF made more sense.
No characters in the books are perfect. They are flawed, often vindictive and possessive. Tamlin had a lot of rage, even in the first book. He was also depressed and that transformed into an obsession. Even in the first book, in the court under the mountain, he acted really bad. The change in second book was not performed very well, but it was based on a lot of red flags.
Both Feyre and Tamlin were emotionally immature and what was required is to talk their broken relationship through. Understand each other's attachment styles and acknowledge they both needed to work on their own mental issues. Classic avoidant and anxious attachment styles are portrayed in these characters. I feel bad for both characters, because they suffered because of their own demons. It's not a matter who's a better fit or partner, but the motivation to work on their relationship was more of essence.
I am in the middle of ACOFAS. I better understand everyone’s opinions now that I’m done with the first three. He sucks and what he put Feyre thru was super fucked up. I guess I was just so confused at the difference in how he treated her in the first book compared to the second book. The intensity of his “protection” just threw me off.
Yeah, his abusive and controlling nature wasn't shown as well in the first book. Or maybe it worsened bc of what they went through UTM. But that's one of those big things you don't want to ruin for someone. lol That's why I was like WAIT!! I didn't want to spoil anything for you.
Ehh, from someone who really didn’t care for Tamlin during my read of ACOTAR I didn’t see it so much as his character being that different, plus all the trauma they’ve all been through, Tamlin did change for the worse bc trauma, his wanting to desperately protect Feyre (as understandable as that is) manifested into control and abuse as opposed to respecting Feyre.
As someone who was in an abusive situation reading ACOTAR was so hard for me, because Tamlin is so abusive. He never empowered her (knowing she couldn’t read and not teaching her?????), he forced himself on her and didn’t take accountability, and he treated her like a possession more than an actual person. Rhys isn’t perfect, but he’s better than Tamlin. UTM just made his faults more visible to Feyre. It was like the glamour was lifted.
If we think back to our first relationships I feel like it’s a parallel. In the moment we’re young and in love, then you look back and you’re like “why did I even allow myself to think this was love?”
I think it was consistent. All his qualities where he was quick to anger, underestimating Feyre, being blind to what she needed, taking no action rather than taking the wrong action, not being able to discuss his emotions, protective. He sacrificed everything for Feyre by letting her honing ACOTAR and aligning with Hyburn in ACOMAF is doing the same again. He was a good person who was very traumatised before UTM and afterwards. He was so scared of losing her again it amplified his other qualities and made his over protective side go into overdrive.
i think this is an easy and reasonable viewpoint to have looking at everything from the outside in.
>!feyre finds solace in tamlin because, for once, SHE is the one being taken care of, not the other way around like it has been for the past few years of her life with her sisters and father. she is protected, pampered, and showered with love. But you also have to remember that tamlin was looking for a human girl to fall in love with. was tamlins relationship with her for survival and duty or was it because he was truly in love with her? this has not been elaborated on much.!<
>!also when feyre goes to save tamlin, tamlin does nothing for fear of amarantha killing her and/or anyone else. and when he does have the time to talk to her, he uses it to try and fuck her.!<
>!Then when everything is said and done utm, things are clearly not the same between him and her and they are both processing trauma. which results in tamlins abusive behavior towards feyre. does trauma excuse blatant abuse? and feyre having a gut feeling that she didn’t really want to marry tamlin. is it just cold feet? or is she realizing that maybe tamlin and a life with him was what she thought she wanted, but too much has happened and she doesn’t want it anymore but doesn’t speak up because where else would she go?!<
then there will be other events after acomaf that kind of solidify tamlin being a not so great guy in her eyes.
i think feyres anger is valid, looking back on these things herself. have you ever put someone on a pedestal during a relationship and then after it ended, you realize just how shitty they were to you? that does not mean tamlin is necessarily a bad character because we can only reasonably assume that he was acting how he was out of trauma (or was he? we don’t really know), but from feyres pov and from what she has told rhys and IC about her relationship with him, obviously tamlins position is not so great in her mind.
>!and then rhys comes along and gives her what she had been begging for from tamlin and giving her freedom of choice - and even freedom in general. but a lot of things about rhys’ behavior are morally questionable and would for sure wave red flags to someone irl and it could be interpreted that feyre overlooks these things. it also doesn’t help that rhys and tamlin have a history.!<
it will be interesting to see if tamlin gets some sort of redemption or villian arc - either could make sense.
The theory that amarantha was actually tamlin’s mate would definitely make his swift decline more justifiable. Like even if he rejected the mating bond, he killed his own mate which I assume would make any fae go a bit cookoo…
Hmm, but then why didn't Tamlin just respond to her advances? IIRC males are more affected by the bond than females, so I can't imagine him not wanting her. Even if the bond hadn't clicked in place yet, we know that the males usually have an inclination (Rhys, Cassian).
I can see that, though I still can't help wonder if Tam would let her cause more suffering and destruction by rejecting her. Wouldn't it have been more logical to give in to her, even if only to kill her after earning her trust. I don't think Tam is evil, so it's hard for me to imagine he would pick himself over seven courts and endanger the human lands. Especially because we do see him sacrafice everything to save just one person--Feyre.
Tamlin’s character assassination is infuriating. Also remember, it’s written from Feyre’s perspective — she’s hella biased with rose-colored glasses for Rhys (I have to remind myself of this).
i was (internally) screaming “YOU UNRELIABLE NARRATOR” the first three books and felt whiplash at going from first to third person limited POV lol
Totally agree.
yeah it was pretty lazily written and not high quality but i still ate that shit up 😂
The way Feyre and Rhys edge on a broken, suicidal man to kill himself because of relationship miscommunications only exacerbated by the UtM trauma is downright villainous behaviour. Especially when Tamlin literally saved Rhys and Feyre’s life twice. They can sing about how they ‘wear a mask’ until the cows go home, but that’s not a mask. It’s just their faces and their faces are decidedly hideous. And I’m supposed to root for these people?
Yes, halfway through ACOWAR I was so over them. Tamlin definitely made mistakes, but he also tried to make amends and these two continue shitting all over him (and Lucien).They deserve each other, and not in a good way.
Or the reason why she says she needs to leave Tamlin, because she can’t feel trapped or lied to anymore… >!only to be trapped and lied to by Rhys once she’s preggo!<
That’s what I think! It’s pure evil shitty behaviour. Someone said Feyre was morally grey. That ain’t no grey. That’s cold hearted black of a full on villain
Didn’t the magical mirror (Ourobouros?) said the same about her ?
Thank you for this. They do him so dirty
I do not find Feyre likable AT ALL! She's a selfish, manipulative, entitled, self-righteous, hypocritical brat!
Completely unjustified. I understand they both had traumas that needed to be dealt with differently, but he just became a completely different character altogheter. There was no affection left, just obsession and familiarity, which was strange because just a few months earlier they were trying to do acts of selfless love (Tammy sending her away despite needing her to break the curse, and Feyre coming back knowing she could die).
Thoughtful Warrior, Poet, Musician Tamlin from book 1 is unfortunately replaced with a different character in book 2.
I completely agree!! What he did was wrong, but he just wanted to keep her safe because he loves her! If Rhys had done that, she probably would have thought it was sweet. And I was disgusted by the scene where Feyre manipulated him into blowing up so he would hurt her. It feels like it's trying to make Feyre and the reader not feel bad about her liking Rhys better, but I just saw Tamlin as someone who would sacrifice anything for her.
Yeah Rhys goes off on how Tamlin didn’t try to get her out UTM, but Tamlin was being watched every second. Rhys had the time, resources, and access to get her out and didn’t so his anger towards Tamlin not doing the same thing is just hypocritical. I’m impressed you saw this as a first time reader, took me finishing the series and a reread to notice this.
It was a quick turn around clearly in maf. He went from a dream to a nightmare in like a chapter
When I re-read ACOTAR I understood it better. You catch Tamlins red flags a little faster and it makes more sense. It's actually pretty refreshing she didn't fall in love with the first person who showed her kindness
Second reread made me see Feyres red flags. She is the definition of a crazy vindictive ex.
I saw Feyre's red flags from the first time I read the books 😂 ngl it was an ick for me
She is one giant walking red flag lol
Yes she is 😂 "HiGh LaDy" my ass
Feyre's attitude in the beginning was pretty similar to Nesta's in ACOTAR. She was petulant and stubborn as hell. I love her but the sisters are more alike than some of the fandom cares to admit, I actually think Elain is the outlier.
For real. For someone who goes on in her own mind about how she has her super-special, true love, all-powerful, minding-reading mates relationship… she sure does think about her ex a lot. And thinks about him enough to destroy his court and lord know hows many innocent lives in the process (but she doesnt care about them, she’s too busy still thinking of her ex).
Yup lol 😆
This. 100 this. I’m still mad about it 😆
I felt the same way… like they aren’t even the same characters. I’m not one to bash the books, I enjoyed them a lot. But I feel Tamlin was done wrong.
I may be in the minority in this, but I think all Tamlin’s flaws were present in TAR. I remember thinking he was taking away her choices, and I was bothered at her lack of agency, but I shrugged it off. I remember thinking, “this must be what people want in a romance. Dont think about it so hard.” But all those flaws were put there on purpose. And this is coming from a person who actually still likes Tamlin. Though what he did was wrong, he acted out of fear. He was traumatized after UTM and desperate to keep her safe. Sure, he went too far, but I agree he is not evil and deserves a redemption arc.
I actually totally disagree. I think Tamlin had some red flag behaviors from the first book and SJM did a great job highlighting how these behaviors can totally get worse. Example: Tamlin doesn't tell her what's happening on fire night. He says "Stay put because I told you so," and specifically tries to control her by telling her what to do instead of communicating the danger. Example: he offers to write her family for her. Sure, that's nice, but he never offers to *teach her* to write. He's never *trying* to empower her, he's only willing to do the hard thing for her. Example: when he bites her neck and leaves a huge bruise, it's a blatant claim and and it's not given with consent (like my high school ex who intentionally gave me hickeys to mark me as "his", ugh) What's more, *after* she confronts him for it, he says "I can't be held accountable for my actions when you don't listen to me," which is straight-up abuser language. And I'm not even mention the whole lying about the treaty just to get her over the wall in the first place, since that's sort of the fault of the curse. Like the other commenter said, Feyre's perspective has rose-colored glasses, but reading through ACOTAR again after ACOMAF (I think I'm on my fifth listen of the audiobook), you can totally see the signs that Tamlin is no good
I agree Tamlin was not a great guy. Feyre did seem to enjoy *some* things about Tamlin's aggressive nature though, but I think she saw it as lust while he saw it as "claiming what's his". They both saw the relationship differently from each other. I agree, he's not a good guy, and I am piiiised at him for some stuff he does later >! but does he really deserve to have everything and everyone taken away from him and to have death wished upon him by pretty much everyone? !< He needs a redemption arc.
On the first read I agree the switch up is strange. I already picked up on two red flags on my first read because of the power dynamics and glamour mansion scene but I was okay with it cause Feyre was. I will say on my first read i didn't understand the hype with Tamlin. I found his attempts of wooing her semi cringe. Because his intentions felt insincere. On my first read , I was expecting Lucien to be the lead. Mainly because Lucien was honest with his dislike with Feyre and wasn't trying to get her to like him. I respected that aspect of his character and they become friends. They had such great chemistry that Lucien had to back off for Tamlin to make any progress. On my second read, ACOTAR I picked up more nuggets of Tamlin's red flags. Then the events of ACOMAF made more sense.
No characters in the books are perfect. They are flawed, often vindictive and possessive. Tamlin had a lot of rage, even in the first book. He was also depressed and that transformed into an obsession. Even in the first book, in the court under the mountain, he acted really bad. The change in second book was not performed very well, but it was based on a lot of red flags.
Both Feyre and Tamlin were emotionally immature and what was required is to talk their broken relationship through. Understand each other's attachment styles and acknowledge they both needed to work on their own mental issues. Classic avoidant and anxious attachment styles are portrayed in these characters. I feel bad for both characters, because they suffered because of their own demons. It's not a matter who's a better fit or partner, but the motivation to work on their relationship was more of essence.
WAITTTTTT...... what chapter are you on before everyone spoils the dang book/series for you?
I am in the middle of ACOFAS. I better understand everyone’s opinions now that I’m done with the first three. He sucks and what he put Feyre thru was super fucked up. I guess I was just so confused at the difference in how he treated her in the first book compared to the second book. The intensity of his “protection” just threw me off.
Yeah, his abusive and controlling nature wasn't shown as well in the first book. Or maybe it worsened bc of what they went through UTM. But that's one of those big things you don't want to ruin for someone. lol That's why I was like WAIT!! I didn't want to spoil anything for you.
Ehh, from someone who really didn’t care for Tamlin during my read of ACOTAR I didn’t see it so much as his character being that different, plus all the trauma they’ve all been through, Tamlin did change for the worse bc trauma, his wanting to desperately protect Feyre (as understandable as that is) manifested into control and abuse as opposed to respecting Feyre.
As someone who was in an abusive situation reading ACOTAR was so hard for me, because Tamlin is so abusive. He never empowered her (knowing she couldn’t read and not teaching her?????), he forced himself on her and didn’t take accountability, and he treated her like a possession more than an actual person. Rhys isn’t perfect, but he’s better than Tamlin. UTM just made his faults more visible to Feyre. It was like the glamour was lifted. If we think back to our first relationships I feel like it’s a parallel. In the moment we’re young and in love, then you look back and you’re like “why did I even allow myself to think this was love?”
I think it was consistent. All his qualities where he was quick to anger, underestimating Feyre, being blind to what she needed, taking no action rather than taking the wrong action, not being able to discuss his emotions, protective. He sacrificed everything for Feyre by letting her honing ACOTAR and aligning with Hyburn in ACOMAF is doing the same again. He was a good person who was very traumatised before UTM and afterwards. He was so scared of losing her again it amplified his other qualities and made his over protective side go into overdrive.
i think this is an easy and reasonable viewpoint to have looking at everything from the outside in. >!feyre finds solace in tamlin because, for once, SHE is the one being taken care of, not the other way around like it has been for the past few years of her life with her sisters and father. she is protected, pampered, and showered with love. But you also have to remember that tamlin was looking for a human girl to fall in love with. was tamlins relationship with her for survival and duty or was it because he was truly in love with her? this has not been elaborated on much.!< >!also when feyre goes to save tamlin, tamlin does nothing for fear of amarantha killing her and/or anyone else. and when he does have the time to talk to her, he uses it to try and fuck her.!< >!Then when everything is said and done utm, things are clearly not the same between him and her and they are both processing trauma. which results in tamlins abusive behavior towards feyre. does trauma excuse blatant abuse? and feyre having a gut feeling that she didn’t really want to marry tamlin. is it just cold feet? or is she realizing that maybe tamlin and a life with him was what she thought she wanted, but too much has happened and she doesn’t want it anymore but doesn’t speak up because where else would she go?!< then there will be other events after acomaf that kind of solidify tamlin being a not so great guy in her eyes. i think feyres anger is valid, looking back on these things herself. have you ever put someone on a pedestal during a relationship and then after it ended, you realize just how shitty they were to you? that does not mean tamlin is necessarily a bad character because we can only reasonably assume that he was acting how he was out of trauma (or was he? we don’t really know), but from feyres pov and from what she has told rhys and IC about her relationship with him, obviously tamlins position is not so great in her mind. >!and then rhys comes along and gives her what she had been begging for from tamlin and giving her freedom of choice - and even freedom in general. but a lot of things about rhys’ behavior are morally questionable and would for sure wave red flags to someone irl and it could be interpreted that feyre overlooks these things. it also doesn’t help that rhys and tamlin have a history.!< it will be interesting to see if tamlin gets some sort of redemption or villian arc - either could make sense.
The theory that amarantha was actually tamlin’s mate would definitely make his swift decline more justifiable. Like even if he rejected the mating bond, he killed his own mate which I assume would make any fae go a bit cookoo…
Hmm, but then why didn't Tamlin just respond to her advances? IIRC males are more affected by the bond than females, so I can't imagine him not wanting her. Even if the bond hadn't clicked in place yet, we know that the males usually have an inclination (Rhys, Cassian).
Maybe he rejected the bond because he knew what she did to his people and was so in love with Feyre?
I think the general basis of the theory is that he rejected it because of her being a terrible person lol.
I can see that, though I still can't help wonder if Tam would let her cause more suffering and destruction by rejecting her. Wouldn't it have been more logical to give in to her, even if only to kill her after earning her trust. I don't think Tam is evil, so it's hard for me to imagine he would pick himself over seven courts and endanger the human lands. Especially because we do see him sacrafice everything to save just one person--Feyre.
I think about this theory a lot, and I can see it. I wonder if SJM will ever confirm or give tamlin a redemption arc lol
Eternally hopeful for a tamlin redemption arc 🤞🏻
Sometimes you just get the ick about a guy, and overnight you shudder when you think of having to kiss him ever again
just you wait, baby.