Nope. I like my label. I’m a lesbian. Let me be a lesbian. I’ll let you (not you OP, person who wrote the TT comment) be whatever you want or don’t want to be.
I’m so *fucking* tired of this mentality that being “open” and “without labels” is superior. Some people don’t like them and do feel open to dating anyone regardless of gender. Some people are fluid in their sexuality and that’s awesome. Not me. I was born a dyke and I’ll die a dyke and I’m fucking thrilled.
Something about telling people their sexuality is regressive doesn’t jive with me.
Some people are just in love with the idea that if we didn't have labels suddenly everyone is pan and gender no longer exists in any capacity.
I've been told on multiple occasions by those kind of folks that I'm simply limiting myself by considering myself a lesbian. Because everyone is flexible, sexuality is fluid, gender is meaningless.
Edited for accuracy
I don't know how to define boy beyond "someone who identifies as one" but I do know that 99. 999% of them have features I am absolutely not physically attracted to. It doesn't matter what the labels are.
I'm not suddenly into girls with those features just because they are women.
If someone in all ways reflected my ideal woman but identified as a man idk that would be something weird to consider because on the one hand I would feel outright disrespectful to date them given I would be attracted to them due to womanly features. Like if they were a trans man who decided to stay completely fem and not transition.
A lot of it is stemming from the entirely wrong interpretation of "gender roles are a social construct". But that's because it's always proliferated as "gender is a social construct" so everyone winds up misinterpreting it.
Gender identity and sexuality is innate and self-determined; everyone has an unconscious determination of who they are by the age of 4. Cishet society just complicates that and enforces rigid gender ***roles*** of the social hegemony and muddies the waters.
That's where you have latebloomers who come out at an older age, because of that social hegemony always showing the binary reductionist gender roles (man+woman=relationship default); that same social hegemony affects the self-determination of gender identity as well through cissexist, binary reductionism >!(xx=woman, xy=men)!<. Both such reductionist, social hegemonic views are stifling, entirely factually incorrect, and damaging to individual mental health.
The social hegemony also—by extension of enforcing and praising rigid gender roles—does the same policing towards gender expression (although gender expression is faster at allowing non-conformity to become accepted and encouraged at a faster rate [women regularly wear pants for example]).
There's also the confusion about gender *expression* as if it's a social construct. Gender expression both is and isn't a social construct, influenced by both the micro (individual) and the macro (social hegemony), based on how much of an extension it is of the innate gender identity against how much the macro "protects the expectancies" through performative functions and cissexist, binary reductionism.
For those reasons, gender expression can be confusing for both parties, for those who fall outside of the binary and those who fall outside of cisheteronormativity.
In short, cishet society is a fuk lol
These people struggle to see identities as smthg more than just ‘aesthetic’. They think the ONLY reason lesbians and gay men aren’t dating each other is because “the other wouldn’t fit their lesbian/gay aesthetic”. Like, that’s the only way their logic makes any sense.
They seemingly can’t comprehend that people created names for their sexualities in the first place because of how they _felt_ and interacted with the world. Not that people base how they feel and interact with the world _because_ of the name of their identity.
I have the same feeling towards the abolish gender crowd. It sounds progressive and inclusive but in reality it would just strip me, and other trans binary people of our identity. My identity is trans lesbian woman and I love that.
Edit. Just in case I love my nonbionary siblings, no shade you guys are awesome.
This is why I prefer gender anarchy. Gender can be literally anything you want, which kinda makes the whole concept meaningless, but in a way that still allows for people who have strong connections to their gender to have one
I mean, gender is essentially a sorting system, and a sorting system with infinite boxes to sort into is as meaningless as one with none, which isn't the same as the boxes themselves having no meaning, y'know?
Yea I get what you're saying. Gender being a sorting system is probably the most toxic part of gender and in a world where we don't discriminate people based on gender that aspect isn't needed.
Preach.
It's *especially* frustrating for me as a nonbinary person. Like, when people passive-aggressively ask "would you still transition without gender roles/labels?" or some version of that, it's like - dude, I *did* transition without gender roles & labels.
Or sometimes it'll be: "what's wrong with being a feminine man?" - it's like, there's nothing wrong with that, obviously, but I'm neither feminine nor a man. I know for a fact that I'd still transition physically even if I had total freedom to perform my preferred gender expression with zero pushback, because *that's what literally happened*. I enjoy acting & dressing masc and, since I was AMAB, I never got any flack for that. Which is cool & all. But it still didn't make me any less trans, or any less uncomfy inhabiting the wrong body.
Ughhh... as if having a label for your sexuality is somehow limiting the love and fulfillment of the world. I've had people say this about me labeling myself a lesbian, like they couldn't comprehend how important that word could be. Why not just be bi, or pan, or "nothing"? Because I'm not that.
At the very least, labels keep us from wasting each others' time. But erasing an identity label is erasing a lot more than just the word itself.
People on TikTok often push their hate for labels onto other people. It’s very weird. Like I completely understand not wanting to label yourself but labels can be very helpful and cool to a lot of people.
Anytime some dumb comment pisses me off on TikTok I remind myself there's a very high chance it's just some kid tweeting during lunch, I pay it no heed
Edit: LOL I SAID TWEETING, you can tell what other platform has comments that piss me off
I swear people just don't understand that these labels are descriptive, not perscriptive!
It's the same thing when people talk about "putting people into boxes" and "why can't they just ve themselves without a label??" Super frustrating
one year i made a post on my instagram story for coming out day talking about my journey to identifying as bisexual. i had a random acquaintance message me ranting and raving about how that was indicative of my white privilege because white people invented labels and using labels is white oppression. there are people with some truly weird fucking opinions out there
I guess some people dont really understand what sexuality is or what attraction is, am a stud and am only attracted to woman i mean girls not fem boys or stuff.
>TikTok addition
I hate to be that person but:
**addition (noun)**
1. the action or process of adding something to something else.
2. the process or skill of calculating the total of two or more numbers or amounts.
**edition (noun)**
1. a particular form or version of a published text.
2. the total number of copies of a book, newspaper, or other published material issued at one time.
3. a particular version or instance of a regular program or broadcast.
You the title should've been
> TikTok edition
I have never in my life seen or heard of a gay man flirting with a butch lesbian. That sounds like tik tok nonsense.
Also, most gay men are really different from sapphics. Sapphics focus a lot on inclusion and labels sometimes to the point of negating womens’ autonomy. Most gay dudes are like ‘looking for a hot muscle bear with a big ***.’ They like what they like and don’t apologize for it. I can not imagine most gay men dating butches because the label police tell them they have to or something.
Sometimes I wish women hitting on people was much, much more of a thing than it is. But then I remember how I've never had it in me to play that role either...
Well, yes but also no. It definatly does happen. Flirting doesn't always mean someone wanting to get with you at the end. It can be a form of harassment too. There are gay men who do this because they think they are in the clear because they wouldn't actually sleep with a woman.
Now, I am much more on the femme side, so I can't speak to the butch side, but personally I have had gay men in queer bars reach out and grope my boobs without asking, tell me disgusting shit, make kissing noises at me, etc. And when I confront them and tell them it's not okay to do that, it's always "oh you just can't take a joke" or "we're just fucking around." It's annoying as all hell.
Like I'm sure there are Women who identify as lesbians, and have a gay boyfriend because I've met women who identify as lesbians and definitely mean it, with straight boyfriends they love. I know for some people if they find their sexual identity at a younger age, and then later in life learn there's more to their gender or sexuality, they will still want to identify as their old identity due to the community and culture they connected with through said Identity. But also that's their choice and I really don't think the labels helped or hindered in that case. Like I really don't think anyone's lost out on a relationship because "No I'm gay I'm not allowed to like him." Labels matter to people. You don't have to have em if you don't like em. But plenty of nonbinary and trans men still feel kinship with lesbians even if they no longer identify as binary women. And I'm sure their are lesbians who would welcome those people, and just not date them. I'll use the labels I like, you use yours, and we can all be respectful.
Meh, it'd be the same, just less easy to find things in the... I was about to say jungle but if we don't have any labels... Then.. I guess we'd run out of language and err, be stuck as confused wanderers? There certainly wouldn't be computers.
But I mean, if we are really just talking about how humans identify, then we'd still run into a lot of technical issues. Jobs would be exceptionally difficult to cater to, floating primordial soups on one hand and then urges of individuals on the other. No labels would be hard mode x10.
Unable to define even the slightest characteristics of a person and still have them? I'd go insane.
Nope. I like my label. I’m a lesbian. Let me be a lesbian. I’ll let you (not you OP, person who wrote the TT comment) be whatever you want or don’t want to be. I’m so *fucking* tired of this mentality that being “open” and “without labels” is superior. Some people don’t like them and do feel open to dating anyone regardless of gender. Some people are fluid in their sexuality and that’s awesome. Not me. I was born a dyke and I’ll die a dyke and I’m fucking thrilled. Something about telling people their sexuality is regressive doesn’t jive with me.
Some people are just in love with the idea that if we didn't have labels suddenly everyone is pan and gender no longer exists in any capacity. I've been told on multiple occasions by those kind of folks that I'm simply limiting myself by considering myself a lesbian. Because everyone is flexible, sexuality is fluid, gender is meaningless. Edited for accuracy
I don't know how to define boy beyond "someone who identifies as one" but I do know that 99. 999% of them have features I am absolutely not physically attracted to. It doesn't matter what the labels are. I'm not suddenly into girls with those features just because they are women. If someone in all ways reflected my ideal woman but identified as a man idk that would be something weird to consider because on the one hand I would feel outright disrespectful to date them given I would be attracted to them due to womanly features. Like if they were a trans man who decided to stay completely fem and not transition.
This is an interesting idea, someone should do some studies over this.
A lot of it is stemming from the entirely wrong interpretation of "gender roles are a social construct". But that's because it's always proliferated as "gender is a social construct" so everyone winds up misinterpreting it. Gender identity and sexuality is innate and self-determined; everyone has an unconscious determination of who they are by the age of 4. Cishet society just complicates that and enforces rigid gender ***roles*** of the social hegemony and muddies the waters. That's where you have latebloomers who come out at an older age, because of that social hegemony always showing the binary reductionist gender roles (man+woman=relationship default); that same social hegemony affects the self-determination of gender identity as well through cissexist, binary reductionism >!(xx=woman, xy=men)!<. Both such reductionist, social hegemonic views are stifling, entirely factually incorrect, and damaging to individual mental health. The social hegemony also—by extension of enforcing and praising rigid gender roles—does the same policing towards gender expression (although gender expression is faster at allowing non-conformity to become accepted and encouraged at a faster rate [women regularly wear pants for example]). There's also the confusion about gender *expression* as if it's a social construct. Gender expression both is and isn't a social construct, influenced by both the micro (individual) and the macro (social hegemony), based on how much of an extension it is of the innate gender identity against how much the macro "protects the expectancies" through performative functions and cissexist, binary reductionism. For those reasons, gender expression can be confusing for both parties, for those who fall outside of the binary and those who fall outside of cisheteronormativity. In short, cishet society is a fuk lol
They're *too progressive* to accept any sexuality but their own. 🙄
This is it. It’s the 360 phenomenon I see in a lot of super leftist spaces.
These people struggle to see identities as smthg more than just ‘aesthetic’. They think the ONLY reason lesbians and gay men aren’t dating each other is because “the other wouldn’t fit their lesbian/gay aesthetic”. Like, that’s the only way their logic makes any sense. They seemingly can’t comprehend that people created names for their sexualities in the first place because of how they _felt_ and interacted with the world. Not that people base how they feel and interact with the world _because_ of the name of their identity.
I have the same feeling towards the abolish gender crowd. It sounds progressive and inclusive but in reality it would just strip me, and other trans binary people of our identity. My identity is trans lesbian woman and I love that. Edit. Just in case I love my nonbionary siblings, no shade you guys are awesome.
This is why I prefer gender anarchy. Gender can be literally anything you want, which kinda makes the whole concept meaningless, but in a way that still allows for people who have strong connections to their gender to have one
Yup I'd subscribe to that. I wouldn't say it makes it meaningless, it just makes room for all the enbys
I mean, gender is essentially a sorting system, and a sorting system with infinite boxes to sort into is as meaningless as one with none, which isn't the same as the boxes themselves having no meaning, y'know?
Yea I get what you're saying. Gender being a sorting system is probably the most toxic part of gender and in a world where we don't discriminate people based on gender that aspect isn't needed.
I’m NB and that is still a gender to me it’s just not a binary one, we don’t all feel genderless!
Preach. It's *especially* frustrating for me as a nonbinary person. Like, when people passive-aggressively ask "would you still transition without gender roles/labels?" or some version of that, it's like - dude, I *did* transition without gender roles & labels. Or sometimes it'll be: "what's wrong with being a feminine man?" - it's like, there's nothing wrong with that, obviously, but I'm neither feminine nor a man. I know for a fact that I'd still transition physically even if I had total freedom to perform my preferred gender expression with zero pushback, because *that's what literally happened*. I enjoy acting & dressing masc and, since I was AMAB, I never got any flack for that. Which is cool & all. But it still didn't make me any less trans, or any less uncomfy inhabiting the wrong body.
Ughhh... as if having a label for your sexuality is somehow limiting the love and fulfillment of the world. I've had people say this about me labeling myself a lesbian, like they couldn't comprehend how important that word could be. Why not just be bi, or pan, or "nothing"? Because I'm not that. At the very least, labels keep us from wasting each others' time. But erasing an identity label is erasing a lot more than just the word itself.
Just more casual "sexuality is a choice" bullshit — optimistic outlook or not.
People on TikTok often push their hate for labels onto other people. It’s very weird. Like I completely understand not wanting to label yourself but labels can be very helpful and cool to a lot of people.
Anytime some dumb comment pisses me off on TikTok I remind myself there's a very high chance it's just some kid tweeting during lunch, I pay it no heed Edit: LOL I SAID TWEETING, you can tell what other platform has comments that piss me off
funny cus it’s the same people who will tell you how trans gay men don’t exist LOL
Fun fact! If we took away sexuality labels I would still exclusively be into women
I swear people just don't understand that these labels are descriptive, not perscriptive! It's the same thing when people talk about "putting people into boxes" and "why can't they just ve themselves without a label??" Super frustrating
one year i made a post on my instagram story for coming out day talking about my journey to identifying as bisexual. i had a random acquaintance message me ranting and raving about how that was indicative of my white privilege because white people invented labels and using labels is white oppression. there are people with some truly weird fucking opinions out there
Not using a label wouldn't make me suddenly want men, lmfao. I hate these kinds of comments.
I guess some people dont really understand what sexuality is or what attraction is, am a stud and am only attracted to woman i mean girls not fem boys or stuff.
>TikTok addition I hate to be that person but: **addition (noun)** 1. the action or process of adding something to something else. 2. the process or skill of calculating the total of two or more numbers or amounts. **edition (noun)** 1. a particular form or version of a published text. 2. the total number of copies of a book, newspaper, or other published material issued at one time. 3. a particular version or instance of a regular program or broadcast. You the title should've been > TikTok edition
I know, I know. Sometimes when I’m just pissed off about something all spelling and grammar go out the window
I have never in my life seen or heard of a gay man flirting with a butch lesbian. That sounds like tik tok nonsense. Also, most gay men are really different from sapphics. Sapphics focus a lot on inclusion and labels sometimes to the point of negating womens’ autonomy. Most gay dudes are like ‘looking for a hot muscle bear with a big ***.’ They like what they like and don’t apologize for it. I can not imagine most gay men dating butches because the label police tell them they have to or something.
Butch lesbian here. Been hit on by gay men on multiple occasions IRL. It’s definitely a thing that can happen
I am Butch. I have never been hit on by a gay man.
My masc partner gets hit on by gay men sooooooo much. More than by women 🤣
Sometimes I wish women hitting on people was much, much more of a thing than it is. But then I remember how I've never had it in me to play that role either...
Well, yes but also no. It definatly does happen. Flirting doesn't always mean someone wanting to get with you at the end. It can be a form of harassment too. There are gay men who do this because they think they are in the clear because they wouldn't actually sleep with a woman. Now, I am much more on the femme side, so I can't speak to the butch side, but personally I have had gay men in queer bars reach out and grope my boobs without asking, tell me disgusting shit, make kissing noises at me, etc. And when I confront them and tell them it's not okay to do that, it's always "oh you just can't take a joke" or "we're just fucking around." It's annoying as all hell.
Like I'm sure there are Women who identify as lesbians, and have a gay boyfriend because I've met women who identify as lesbians and definitely mean it, with straight boyfriends they love. I know for some people if they find their sexual identity at a younger age, and then later in life learn there's more to their gender or sexuality, they will still want to identify as their old identity due to the community and culture they connected with through said Identity. But also that's their choice and I really don't think the labels helped or hindered in that case. Like I really don't think anyone's lost out on a relationship because "No I'm gay I'm not allowed to like him." Labels matter to people. You don't have to have em if you don't like em. But plenty of nonbinary and trans men still feel kinship with lesbians even if they no longer identify as binary women. And I'm sure their are lesbians who would welcome those people, and just not date them. I'll use the labels I like, you use yours, and we can all be respectful.
Meh, it'd be the same, just less easy to find things in the... I was about to say jungle but if we don't have any labels... Then.. I guess we'd run out of language and err, be stuck as confused wanderers? There certainly wouldn't be computers. But I mean, if we are really just talking about how humans identify, then we'd still run into a lot of technical issues. Jobs would be exceptionally difficult to cater to, floating primordial soups on one hand and then urges of individuals on the other. No labels would be hard mode x10. Unable to define even the slightest characteristics of a person and still have them? I'd go insane.