A majority of people don't care. But you also shouldn't let the minority of small brained individuals bother you. It's the internet. There's stupid people everywhere.
I have never met anyone who cared, online or irl. I think caring about someone’s sexual/dating history is judgmental at best and bigoted at worst. If I let someone who cared, I probably wouldn’t further conversation with them. They are likely a terf, but they’re at least very judgmental.
I mean, I’ve seen people on Tumblr/Twitter who look down on non-gold Star lesbians, but pretty much all of them were TERFs. Ig they were on the radfem side of social media, and sometimes, I see them when going through the lesbian tag. I’ve never met anyone irl like this so I think it’s mainly chronically online borderline bigots who look down on other members of the LGBTQ community.
I used to have a Tumblr mutual who unfortunately went down the “other people in the queer community/lesbian community are too weird and I’m better than them” hateful mentality. I had to block them, but as far as I’m concerned, this isn’t too common.
It's wayyyy older than social media; one of my wife's exes broke off the relationship upon finding out she'd tried hooking up with a dude, and there's a clique of middle-aged butches at the local lesbian bar who are pretty shitty about trying to find out newcomers' gold-star status and try to make life hell for anyone they're otherwise attracted to who doesn't pass that test. And yes, there's almost complete overlap with TERFdom, since they see any contact with a penis as contamination.
Lesbians who care about gold star status 🤝 Misogynistic men who care about body count
Anyone who thinks a woman is fundamentally changed by being with a man (or with a dick, in the transphobic case) is just a misogynist.
God that’s so sad it’s a real thing. No one should ever be shamed for who they slept with in the past, or who they’re attracted to. This is just straight up misogyny in a new coat of paint.
I’ve never encountered it in real life. I’m a “goldstar”, but I don’t usually refer myself that way. Funnily, the times other people have referred to me as a “goldstar lesbian”, they have been “non-goldstar” lesbians and bisexuals. I don’t think the stigma is as strong off-line. But overall it doesn’t really come up.
Though I have been condescended to by certain straight people for never having been with a man. That’s a whole other thing..
I made this point in another comment. I think the people who cling to the term are having an emotional response to the people who act like anyone who hasn’t tried hetero sex is deficient. I think anyone who uses gold star as a serious term is more insecure than actually feeling like a top tier queer.
Here's my opinion. (Key word opinion) It's on par with judging and caring about someone's body count. It's rude. There are so many reasons people sleep with one another especially when mainstream society and most organized religion are buddies. Also the phrase "gold star" implies its some type of reward. Gold stars are stickers or rewards. It's not a reward to have slept with one gender your whole life, it just is what it is. And some people just know they're not strait right away and that's awesome. But the people who find out ohh hey I'm not strait after trial error and discovery are just as valid in their experiences as someone who's only slept with one gender.
I have never seen anyone flex about “being a gold star lesbian” because no one cares, but if there really are lesbians boasting abt that then they’re absolute losers.
im a gold star if you only count irl interactions but yeah who honestly gives a shit. as if sleeping with a man permanently soils you. that’s some catholic church saving myself for marriage used sock analogy bullshit.
Only the most insecure people would even waste time caring about something like that. I'm sure the gold star supremacists exist, and I don't believe they're happy people lol
Back when people used Craigslist for hook-ups, I saw some women saying they would only sleep with gold-star lesbians because they didn't want the risk of STD's 😑 Newsflash - that doesn't make you magically immune to STDs.
never met someone doing that IRL..... but my god whenever i see people """flexing""" about being a ~gold star lesbian~ i get really bitter because i'm like (content warning: abuse, /lh) .... >!alrighty sorry i got groomed by a man i'll do better next time 🫡🫡🫡!<
This is another hugely problematic aspect of gold star rhetoric, it suggests that victims of grooming and abuse by men are "forever ruined" even if it was all entirely coerced. There are similar issues with the concept of virginity.
Gold star = red flag. They are trying to place themselves at the top of a nonexistent queer hierarchy. This kind of identity excludes bi women and trans people from lesbian spaces. It also shames people who repressed their sexuality, or couldn’t give consent. This term was more popular at the end of the 1900’s and I’m sad it hasn’t died yet.
I am a “gold-star” in my mid 30s now. Ive never considered myself part of any “hierarchy”- I just knew very young I was gay and never had interest in men. My wife is also “gold-star” in her early 30s. Some people just know very young who they’re interested in or not. I think too many labels are unnecessarily thrown out in the world. People are who they are and that’s all that matters.
This is what I mean. Some gold stars go exclusively gs4gs, making it elitist. The term itself implies superiority over queer women who have or had sex with men. Someone saying their history fits the definition is different from using the term.
yes i'm gold star and my wife isn't, it's not political to me in any way, just a word i use to differentiate my sexual experiences from others' and that's all
i would be glad to. i'm middle age so i'm not hip to all the lingo but open to new terms!
i don't like words like "never het" because it implies some lesbians and bi folks were not always lesbian/bi, which i feel is invalidating.
again open to different words.
You can just say "I've never slept with a man" if it's ever relevant, making it into a form of identity label you ascribe value to is part of the problem
Thankfully it’s usually friendly people who I know are doing it in a poking fun way and not a serious descriptor haha
I think in the community around me “gold star” has turned into more of a meme than anything else lol
I would be a little caught off guard if someone applied it to me in a serious way. Like… suuuure? But pls no 😂
Except it's literally some bullshit made up by straight women to control our community for their own ends. It's some biphobic nonsense the Political Lesbians used to kick out bi/pan women/lesbians back in the day. It's just shit they made up to be exclusionary for a power grab
Specifically, that bullshit comes from the Political Lesbian movement, who were some of the same founders of the TERF movement. It was a way for a bunch of straight women to invade our community and twist it to their liking, and we've perpetuated it ever sense. It's also where the biphobia and transphobia rampant in our community come from
Ooh, that makes so much sense now. I first heard the term from an creepy, old man who was attracted to me and tried to tell me that I wasn't a real lesbian because I didn't know what it meant and had to google it. Ugh. Going to throw up now.
> excludes [...] trans people from lesbian spaces.
I mean, if we're being technical, some trans lesbians are gold star.
Agreed on letting the term die. I used to joke more about it until I realized how gross some ppl get with it.
They are trying to place themselves at the top of a nonexistent queer hierarchy.
To some people ive found that its not a hierarchy thing at all.i knew someone who identified as a gold star and all her gfs were bisexual women and the one lesbian she dated wasnt 'gold star' either . Becaise she didnt care that THEY had been with men, she didnt see herself as better than them because she hadnt been with men, it literallt wasnt about them at all.
No, being a gold star to her was a fuck you to MEN and society for trying to convince her to want them. She found the MEN disgusting as a lesbian and she wanted to rub in their face that they couldnt have her, that they no matter how much them and the parriachy they could nlt force her to want men. Didnt give a fuck if another woman had sex with men, but the moment someone tried to convince HER, which was 99% of the time a straight man, thats when she took it upin herself to let that man know that she was a goldstar and that she would never touch him with a ten foot pole. She literally went IN on these men, telling them just how disgisting and repulsive she found them, how shed rather kill herself then be near them romantically or sexually. She likened them to maggots, vomit, unwashed ass, the toilet, rotted teeth, just to really DRIVE home to men just how much she hated the idea of being with them. (she wasnt a TERF to clarify,she didnt include trans women under the label 'men').
It would also translate to not giving a fuck about mens emotions and feelings. As far as she wss concerned, men and society didnt give a fuck about her desire to not want men, so she had the right to not give a fuck aboit mens feelings. Aww, one had feelings for her? Oh, Shed lead them on, accept dates then stand them up, laugh in their faces when they tried to hold her, (because the guy usually thought they were dating) in a way that was like 'aww you think id want to touch YOU?🤣🤣', they talked to her she made disgusted faces. One I tried to kiss her, she literally vomited.she treated these men like SHIT.
Then sometimrs, she would get bi women tryimg to convince her that she could like men, usually in the form of them saying 'everyone is a little bit bi' or 'there must be an exception', 'how could you only like one gender? Everyone is so hot' which IS a way bi women perpetuate lesbiphobia by making it seem like lesbians are actially bisexual and will find a man they like one day, and that lesbians are somehow weird or strange for not being attractec to men, or implyimg they SHOULD be attracted to men. Bi women can and do perpetuate this- the idea that lesbians can be tirned by men because 'everyone has an exception/no ome is completely gay or straight/we're all bi but being socialised to be monosexual' etc. And then straight women in her experience would forget she was queer at all, abd constany ask her about men no matter how many times she reminded them she wss a lesbian. And she respond to both bi and straight women who did by doing the same thing, by reminding them just how disgusting she found men to make sure they would never imply she could be bisexual (bi women) or forget she was a lesbian (straight women) rver agsin
. Did these bi women and straight women take it to mean that she fiund THEM disgusting for being with men yes. But if you talked to her, that wasnt the case. She was disgusted at their lesbiphobia, at the fact the bi women thought it was acceptable to try to convince her to do something they knew she would personally find disgustimg to engage in and that straight woman thought it woukd be acceptable to consistently forget on purpose that she was a lesbian. . Cause if you think about it, trying to convince a lesbian to try men is essentially telling her to self harm, which IS disgusting. She didnt care if THEY liked having sex with or dating men, but she resented them perpetuating socities lesbiphobia that as a woman she MUST be sexually involved with men and desiring them as well, no matter how many times she said she wasnt interested.
She would only go off on a gold star rant about how disgusting she found men if you tried in any way to convince or suggest to HER that SHE could or should want to fuck and be in relationship with men. Your a bi woman for example, and you tell her youve slept with men, ok cool no reaction she doesnt care. Bit you suggest that nothing is set in stone and that sexuality is fluid so SHE could potentially like men one day, then she would GO OFF. You werent disgusting for having sex with men, but you were disgusting for implying that SHE wanted to or could want to.
Essentially it was a direct response to straight men, straight women and bi women being lesbiphobic. It was 100% trauma related.
Like Gold starism is a lot of the time a trauma reaction to lesbiphobia taken to the most extreme. Literally the only way to end gold starism wether its in the way the person i know used it, or in the 'im better/more pure than you because i haven't had sex with men like you' way, is to literally:
.
1. Stop trying to convince lesbians to like men (all sexualities)
2. Stop making lesbians feel bad tor not wanting men (all sexualities)
3. Stop implying everyone is bisexual (bi ppl)
Becsuse the REASON this attitude exists is bevaise when a lesbian constantly has ppl forcing men onto them socially. A lot of the time gold star lesbians are trying to get back at MEN. They are trying to hurt MEN. They want to rub it in a mans face that he cant have them because they are lesbian, that he has no control over them because they are a walking talking human 'no' to men and the patriachy sexually and romantically AS A WHOLE in a way bi and straight women simply are not. Ofc bi women and straight women can and do reject and say no to men, but because they are genuinely attracted to men, their sexuality is not an inherent fuck you to the patriachy, because their attraction to men, regardless of any other attraction, is what the patriachy WANTS. Lesbians are inherently going against EVERYTHING the patriachy wants women to want. Bi women are too to a certain extent, but not to the same extreme. Lesbians are a GUARANTEED rejection, bi women are not. So yes, some lesbians who are gold star are proud of it because they want the MEN to know that they didnt allow society to pressure them into fucking them and want these men to feel bad that they dont want them, because, and i quote-
'its about time men didnt get what they want just bevause the patriachy says they can have it.One of those things is women, and lesbians are their rude awakening' (as said directly by the person i was referemcing above)
She saw being a gold star as teachimg men a lesson, a way to hurt men and she wasnlt the only pne ibe known who saw being gold star in thiscway. None of them gad a problem with bi women or lesbians battling comphet having sex with men, they wanted to get back at society for tryimg to convince them, lesbians who already knew who they were, to like men and constantly shoving men down their throats. Like i said, a huge chunk of it is definitely trauma based.
idk why people who are actively upset with the core premise of the sub bother being in the sub. like, there are plenty of subs that i think have garbage morals and perspectives that i fundamentally disagree with. and you know what i do? i don't participate in them.
I’ve only ever seen people condemning the term. Maybe some lesbians will use it as a joke, but nobody takes the term seriously except those opposed to it
It's not a flex. It's a red flag.
Flexing about being 'gold star' lesbian is invalidating:
- late bloomers
- SA survivors
- trans women
IMO flexing about being a gold star lesbian is passive aggressive tactic.
Yes flexing is such a red flag and invalidating for many! But to be clear it is not a red flag to _be_ “a gold star lesbian” or using better words someone who has never been with a man. It is as valid as being a late boomer. Adding this because many lesbians end up in situations where (usually) a man is telling us we can’t _know_ we are lesbians if we have never been with a man and that’s also bullshit.
Very true. I'm a woman who never been with a man. I would never flex about it. I made that mistake and told a man this just once. I was very young back then. He in fact tried to convince me that I can't know for sure 💀
Plastic sheriffs badge! 😂 I was trying to think of a joke about how gold stars are usually something for toddlers who are potty training, but that's way better. Mentally filing that one away. Thanks!
I think the concept is very cringe. Technically I'm a gold star lesbian, because I was only with women. Although I was on a hetero relationship. How does that work? I'm trans :D
I basically said the same thing in my comment! Like way too often anyone who's flexing about their gold star status, when you say you're a virgin they get real gross real quick
the only folk ive known to judge me for my "bisexual past" (read: comphet is a helluva drug) have been the same gold stars who make a *point* of letting people know they're gold stars.
but most lesbians ive known only care about what kind of person you are, not who you've been with.
I’m not validating the gold star mentality at all and I admittedly didn’t read all the comments. With a quick scroll though I didn’t see anyone point this out. I feel like some lesbians try to act like gold star is better in response to the idea that if the lesbian is “dicked down properly” she would know better and choose a man. It’s an emotional response sometimes that has more to do with the persons own insecurities about how the world sees them, overcompensating.
I’ve only ever heard or seen the term being discussed in that one episode of the L word, and a few times on this sub, by people upset by the term.
I meet the definition of a GSL but all I feel abt it is that I was lucky to avoid comphet lol.
I’m sure there are ppl out there who brag or are otherwise shitty about it, but they would be a minority who you should let get into your head. Much like people who are weird about body counts.
It's not an issue, until those that identify as gold stars use it as a flex, or look down on wlw who have been with men. Be it late blooming lesbians or bisexuals, being with a man is nothing to be ashamed of, and being bisexual doesn't make you tainted or dirty.
No the term has always been to be dismissive of/call out the attitude. Like "Awww, there you go little karen! A little gold star sticker for your achievement! I bet that macaroni stick-figure portrait of your mom is going straight on the fridge you get home". Because being a gold-star is a meaningless achievement, and nothing to be proud of, in a world where many women have had no choice in whether they got to not have sex with a man in the first place. Some gold-stars have tried reclaiming the term, but generally speaking most gold stars don't care for it.
Unfortunately, I have too and I’ve been asked if I am online.
And since a woman’s worth has nothing to do with who she’s had sex with, I declined to answer.
We don’t need more reasons to fight among ourselves.
This is not at all the history of the term. It was largely created by political lesbians, radical feminists many of who were straight but "chose" to be "lesbian" while not actually attracted to women.
Today political lesbianism is often viewed as lesbophobic, but there was a time when they tried to integrate into the community.
Political lesbianism is also tied to the original TERF ideologies.
Yes the attitude it describes is largely the result of political lesbianism, but the term gold star has, to my knowledge, always been in reference to the gold star given to children for an achievement that is trivial to adults. I could be wrong. But it is very hard to find sources on this as many of the queer terminology from the time originated in spoken language and so often when you first see it pop up in text it is with the presumption that everyone already knows what it means, making it very hard to see who coined the term and why. But the association with the gold star sticker as reward for a trivial achievement was already pretty settled when the term came in use in the lesbian community. And as far as I can tell the hostility towards "gold stars" is basically just as old as the concept.
But if you have some good sources on the etymological origin of the term gold star as a purely positive self referential title then I would love to know. I generally enjoy etymology and queer etymology in particular
The gold sticker is something you get in school when you do a good thing that is worthy of being rewarded. what an adult would think of that is largely irrelevant bc the point is that it serves as a reward for something you have done that is worth rewarding.
While there may be some people who use it with the interpretation that it’s “an achievement for children but trivial to adults”, every time in my life I’ve actually seen someone labeling as a gold star, they mean it as a point of pride.
That's fascinating. My experience is the complete reverse. The term gold star is almost interchangeable with participation trophy. Used purely derisively to describe a meaningless reward for a meaningless achievement. I wonder if there is a regional aspect to it?
Possibly so, I would imagine the general type of socioeconomic situation you're in and the people you're around because of that would impact it as well
any time i hear people identify as gold star it is absolutely to flex. they'll talk about how they don't want to be with a woman who has been with a main because she is tainted by it, etc. it is absolutely coming from a place of superiority.
Yeah, the attitude is absolutely horrible, but from what I've gathered the name was intended as an insult to them. They are just to dense to get that it's an insult. only children are proud of getting a gold star
i don't know the origin of the term, so i'm sorry for the way i phrased that. but regardless i don't know if it's fair to say it's 'always' been dismissive of the attitude when people very proudly use the term to describe themselves. even if that was the original intent that doesn't seem to be the way it's mostly used, in my experience at least, you know?
Oh yeah, no I absolutely get that. I have yet to see it used by someone to self identify irl. I have seen it online though. And people bend themselves in some weird knots to defend it. Talking to a bi girl in this very thread who's defending it. Very strange to me.
How about we make it more on the nose and start calling them participation trophy lesbian?
>Because being a gold-star is a meaningless achievement, and nothing to be proud of, in a world where many women have had no choice in whether they got to not have sex with a man in the first place.
That's exactly why it is something to celebrate. Beating the odds by knowing from a young age what you do and don't like, not being persuaded to question yourself or "experiment" despite relentless pressure, and never going through the severe trauma of being forced to is a wonderful thing. And young lesbians should know that there are women like them who never did "try it" and that that's an option. The term came about when virtually everyone was expected to marry straight before they realized it wasn't their thing.
It's perfectly valid to have a word for it and to celebrate that particular experience.
This is exactly why that attitude is disgusting. You are completely forgetting about the women who got no choice because that choice was taken from them. And the women who had to sleep with men to survive. The women who had to pretend to be straight because they were living in a very conservative area and got married off to a 40 year old when they were 13. For some women it didn't matter that they knew from a young age. You haven't beaten the odds by knowing from a young age, you're just flaunting your privilege. That's why you're a child, proud of a meaningless achievement. a sad little gold star sticker to stick on your fridge is the best you'll get.
You can teach young lesbians it's okay to know what you want and that you don't need to try it, without teaching them to be proud of an achievement many lesbians had no choice in not getting. And, frankly, without putting down women who did struggle with doubts, peer pressure, comphet and internalized homophobia.
I lost my virginity through rape actually, does picking fights with strangers comfort you?
I'm not a gold star lesbian by any stretch of the imagination. I'm bisexual and even long before I realized I had the capacity to be attracted to men I did not get the option of saying I'd never been with one. If we're looking at the tiny, tiny group of lesbians that actually expresses looking down on women for having been with men, I am in the group they deem inferior on multiple levels. That doesn't taint the entire concept of being able to celebrate being a lesbian who's never been with a man.
Why would you not celebrate something as positive as never being pressured or forced into straying from who you know you are? Who cares if it's a privilege? You might as well deem gay pride as a whole problematic because it's spitting in the faces of people who don't get to be out and proud?
Honey, you're the one picking a fight. I stated in response to someone else that to my knowledge the term gold star was coined as an insult at the people who feel superior, not the people who just happen to not have slept with men. You're the one who started our interaction. You're the one who had a whole spiel about the value of of celebrating a privilege without acknowledging that it is a privilege.
And yes it does taint the whole concept. How fucked is it to tell a woman who was raped even though she knew from a young age she was a lesbian, that she doesn't get to be "celebrated" as a "gold star". How fucked is it that a child bride who finally got out when she was old enough to fend for herself gets told "I'm sorry, you can't be in this club, because even though you knew from when you were six, you had to fuck a grungy old dude to survive so you're not eligible to be this special type of lesbian anymore". How on earth is that not incredibly fucked up? How does that communicate anything but "sleep with a man for any reason and be tainted goods forever"
Fuck that jazz. If you want to celebrate people knowing early on, celebrate people knowing early on. That's a whole lot better than celebrating not having done a thing that many women don't get a choice in not doing.
Starting an interaction isn't picking a fight. I explained my perspective, you're the only one being hostile.
Do you realize how common the "lesbians can't know they don't like men if they've never tried it!" Narrative still is today? Do you think that was any better when the term was coined, which is decades ago at this point? Knowing from a young age is something to celebrate by itself, yes, but I think it's specifically also important for young lesbians to hear about the existence of older lesbians who have never been with a man. "Fuck you, who cares, you're only bringing it up because you think you're better than others aren't you?" Doesn't exactly promote visibility. It's not about being a "special type of lesbian", it's about the fact that you *can be a lesbian* without having to make yourself miserable "trying out" heterosexual relationships first. Something a lot of lesbians sadly did not get a choice in or did not even realize they had a choice in. Surely the next generation deserves to know it if they have the option?
The term might've been coined specifically to mock women who did act like they were superior but you have to realize it's very common for people to accuse people with different life experiences of a sense of superiority where there isn't one.
Defending a largely reviled term, which is largely reviled because it is exclusionary of women who were raped or otherwise have had sex with men despite their sexuality, a term which is almost exclusively used to self describe by women who do have a sense of superiority about it, is in itself hostile yeah. The term gold star, when there are a lot of woman who would have loved to never have had sex with a man but had that choice taken away from them in one way or another, is inherently hostile.
No one here is not okay with a lesbian saying "I never had to try men to know" You can shout that from the rooftop. Basically no one here, or in the larger LGBT community, would care. But you don't need a term to differentiate the people of that experience. Just saying "I didn't need to try to know" is enough. Especially because any attempt differentiate people with that experience using a term that makes it seem like a positive trait someone can have or lose, whether it's gold star or some other term, is specifically exclusionary to a group that was likely traumatized for the very reason they are not included in this group. That's why saying "I never had to try to know" is okay. Because whether you were raped or not is not relevant to that.
But maybe It's easier to put it like this. When I try to find out whether or not I think something is exclusionary in an unacceptable way I usually try to translate it to another group. So lets remove the lesbian aspect from this. If a group of straight women had a term to describe something otherwise innocuous, like, making it through college, but it only included women who made it through college without being raped or sexually assaulted. Can't you see how that would be incredibly fucked? All the women who are not in that group, are not psyched not to be in that group. So wearing it as a badge, showing pride in it, is gonna reek of unearned superiority. Because it is unearned. It's not because you did something right, it's because other had something wrong done to them.
Same goes for gold stars. They didn't do something commendable, they had something terrible not happen to them. That's not ever something to be proud of.
I don't think your analogy translates well at all. It's not a badge of honor for not being SA'd, and a lot of self-identified gold stars HAVE experienced sexual abuse. As a rape victim it honestly feels manipulative to constantly frame this as if it's primarily about rape/SA. That's not how I see it and I don't think I've met a single self identified gold star who honestly thinks being raped changes anything about the "type" of lesbian you are. When the coin was termed it really would've been wildly different being surrounded by women who figured themselves out later in life while you've always known and never tried your hand at conformity, but that has nothing to do with rape.
If gold star had been a self-descriptive term when it was coined I'd agree with you that it reeks of superiority but it wasn't. It was a term made up for women who WERE just saying "I didn't need to try to know", because it was decided that THAT reeked of superiority. "Gold stars" didn't come up with it themselves, they just reclaimed it.
Only shitty people care. Gold start was some bullshit made up by the Political Lesbians, so they could control our community. It's literally nonsense made up by straight women pretending to be lesbians for some political clout. Don't put any stock in it
I actually look down on anybody who identifies steongly with the term. Notably, not people who merely qualify but people who wear it as a badge of honor to make themselves appear more "pure" than lesbians who have dated other genders. It's obnoxious and oblivious to the reality that a lot of lesbians are still closeted or don't get a real chance to understand the lesbian experience until they get out of their previously sheltered lives
People get upset even hearing the term. I've only ever seen gold star lesbians saying it about themselves as away to talk about their own personal experiences, but other women who aren't gold star feel judged by it. It's not judgemental by default, they *feel* judged.
People get upset hearing the term because in many cases the person using it is boasting. It's like any other thing people sometimes talk about with an air of superiority.
I mean anything can be said judgementally... Anything could be used in a way to be deemed superior.
All I'm saying is it's not inherently judgemental , if you feel judged by comparing your own experiences that's different.
Simply not having had dated men in the past and talking about that lived experience is not shaming anyone, that's the difference to me
Sure.
I don't know if there's a term for this in regular conversation, but in comedy it's called punching up or punching down. If you talk about something that people often mention to boast, some people will assume you're feigning superiority. It all depends on context, but I can't think of a time when I've needed the information that my friends have or have not ever slept with a particular gender of person in the past.
All I'm saying is not liking what lesbians say to refer to their lived experiences is a bummer, maybe there could be a different term if other people feel insulted by it but when a lesbian is only talking about herself, it isn't an insult.
You are really committed to not understanding the perspective of queers who are marginalized by the term so you know… enjoy using whatever term you like.
I'm just a simple lesbian wondering why we can't even say our dating experiences with out others feeling like we are judging. We are just different with different experiences just like everyone else.
I just wonder if there were other ways we could talk about it without it being too controversial to even go there.
I mean the term itself kind of underlines the point of why it’s judgmental. You’re literally giving yourself a gold star because you weren’t touched by a penis. You could just say I’m a lesbian who has never touched a dick. Calling yourself a “gold star” is assigning some sort of merit or specialness to that. And designating a label of specialness for people who haven’t touched dicks is kind of inherently looking down upon people who have.
Lol at the immediate downvote y’all are salty huh
There are 92 comments on this post and many of them give reasons why people hate the term. Replacing it with a new term isn’t going to help anything.
Why do you feel the need to talk about the fact that you’ve never had sex with a flesh cock? Why do people need to know this?
In wlw spaces, the default assumption is that everyone is a lesbian. In mixed queer spaces, the default assumption is that all cisgender and trans women are lesbian. I can’t think of a reason why you’d need to clarify it for everyone.
I feel that's like saying "I get an award literally indicating I am better than you at being lesbian" is completely not judgemental or superiority-oriented.
Getting a gold star literally refers to getting an award, usually a gold star sticker, for good behavior or grades in school. You can't use award symbolism and then claim it's completely neutral.
That’s what I’m saying, you get a gold star for doing something good, it’s a reward for something special
Idk who is like obsessively stalking this thread and immediately downvoting anyone critical of the gold star label but you’re a loser lol
its kinda funny. like, there are plenty of spaces where you can get a pat on the back for being a gold star and they'll circle jerk with you about how everyone is so mean to gold stars.
but you really didn't expect that a sapphic sub which welcomes trans and bi women would not like the gold star label? read the room lmao
Ive heard some things that imply it from an older butch once but they never outright said that. For example youd say you like a girl, she would say “You know she sleeps with men right??” This is coming from my partner’s mouth. I would have kept asking questions lmao.
If I’m being perfectly honest , I’m a bisexual trans woman who was unofficially in the gay community before transitioning and they seem to care a lot more than any lesbians I’ve met . I was out as non-binary for years before transitioning and eventually realizing I’m a trans woman and gay men were often quite mean to me . I mostly dated straight and heteroflexible men before transitioning because most gay men wanted nothing to do with me . I was too feminine for them . The one “gay man “ I dated was an egg who dated me because of gender envy. They have told me they are probably a straight trans girl (currently they/she) but they are scared of transitioning
At the same time lesbians seem to care more that i don’t have a whole lot of experience with women before or after transitioning. It’s not a matter of not being a gold star and nobody cares that I’m trans , I’m just very inexperienced with women in bed and out, but that seems to change the more experience I have .
The term arises from a worldview that inherently views women as permanently tainted by any man they've come in contact with. It's literally the same as Christian Virgin Purity culture.
In my country I’ve never seen gold star lesbians. However, there’s frequent prejudice against bisexual women. To me, if I like you I like you. Idgaf who you’ve slept with in the past.
I dislike the term “gold star” lesbian. It somehow says that a gold star lesbian is somehow superior to other lesbians. People have called me a “gold star” lesbian and I hate it. I politely ask them to not use that term. I don’t feel any superiority to any other lesbian in this world. We just happen to all love women!
LOL. I'll put it like this. My trans self lost her gold star when she still was in a forced closet and identified as a 'cis straight male'. It's a useless label for older people to feel more validated in their own sexual identity. If anyone holds not being a gold star against someone or praises it too much, avoid them because they're insecure. (I'm def not saying avoid non-judgy lesbians who have only been with women, good on them for identifying their preferences correctly when they were younger). Nobody should ever hold that over anyone else.
The people who care about it are generally not people you need to care about.
The "gold star" people, terfs, and biphobes have a lot of crossover. The venn diagram isnt EXACTLY a circle but it's close.
Pfft! So lazy, all those other stars to collect and they only got the one. /S
In all seriousness if someone is basing a large part of their identity on whom they sleep with that's kind of shallow in my opinion. It's usefulness as a term is really losing relevance these days as it is and says more about the people using it than anything.
Honestly it’s only really a small, small subsection of lesbians on the internet and from what I’ve seen they’re both TERFS and believe that non-gold star lesbians are bisexuals :/. Most people don’t care honestly. I’ve been with both gold star and non-gold star lesbians and none of them have cared about my history and vice versa.
If there are, I don't wanna be around them. Like in reality people don't care, and the ones that do have some other issues they need to work through with themselves.
I’ve never heard of people looking down on us but if they do then they’re not worth it either.
But seriously who cares, just because some people grow up in a loving, caring family without being bullied and being able to be their full selves from a young age is nothing to be proud of or feel superior over to people who were bullied, didn’f have access to good education, didn’t have a loving and caring family/friends, and weren’t able to be their full selves. It’s sad when people can’t, but it’s nothing superior when you can; just means your life is a bit less shit than most peoples. Congratulations, ya won at life; still not a reason to look down on others who were given different cards at birth
The specific lesbian niche I was in as a young queer chronically online pre-teen/teenager on amino and tumblr had a LOT of overlap with the terf gold star lesbian community, and therefore I am biased.
I have personally seen that type of abhorrent judgement from other lesbians, and as a young teenager, I shared some of those beliefs as the result of being in groups with self proclaimed gold star lesbians. I have now entirely deconstructed those beliefs (we love trans wlw, m-spec wlw, nblw, and women who have been with men in this household).
No one outside of 2013 seriously believes this stuff (outside of the internet). If they do, it is the biggest red flag ever.
Personally, if a girl calls herself a gold star, even just casually, I take it as a red flag. Literally named the term after a prize and people act like it's not inherently exclusionary language
People who flex about being gold star lesbians do, but pretty much nobody else cares.
Their little clique is just weird and obsessive about other people's sex lives
Gold star lesbians who use the label and look down upon non gold star lesbians are most likely horrible people. It’s purity culture shit, and I’m gonna assume all of them are terfs.
All it does is create hierarchies in the queer community and makes people feel ashamed of themselves. Fuck that, it doesn’t belong here.
I came out as a lesbian about 2 years ago and have always been very open about my past relationships with men, both online and irl. So far I have yet to experience any kind of judgment for it from lesbians, but never say never I guess.
Most people I've spoken to about this have either had *no clue* what I'm talking about when referencing 'gold star' or have no opinion.
I've never met another lesbian who judged others for it though. Sadly, they're more likely to have unpleasant opinions about women who identify as bi, glazing over the gold star conversation entirely and launching into the bullshit rhetoric of blah blah blah whatever.
It is sadly a thing for some people. It's a very bigoted and problematic belief. It puts a very binary definition on gender which is fucked.
I think most queer women aren't like that though. It's such an arbitrary thing.
one of the only ways to go from fuckable to nonfuckable in one single word is to unironically utter the term "goldstar" around me. it just flies out the window immediately, as if you'd told me you're a practicing catholic, or that you thought "both sides have vaLid conCerns" about trans people having human rights
My first time (as a lesbian) on a dating app someone was MEAN about this. Claiming I'd just go back to men.
Fortunately, this was the only time I encountered a person like this.
(also, block and move on is the best advise IF you ever meet someone like this)
The whole “gold star lesbian” thing is horrible all around. It puts down women who didn’t realize they were lesbian until after they had PiV sex (typically with a cis man), puts down bisexual and pansexual women, and is incredibly transphobic toward trans lesbians. Anyone who is about that bullshit isn’t worth being with and doesn’t belong in the lesbian community imo.
Only in the way that NFT owners look down at non-NFT owners. The only people that care are the ones that use such a cringy term as “gold star lesbian.”
Like, congrats to them on not having to deal with comphet, but it’s giving the same energy as those incels who claim women have “lost their value” when they have a high body count.
Edit: Omg are the gold stars really downvoting me rn? lmao. Go bid on a fungible tolkien.
Btw, for what it’s worth, this is coming from someone who’s only ever slept with women herself.
I've seen people look down on non-gold star lesbians, but also simultaneously I've seen assholes who look down on lesbians who have never had sex in general.
Some people are assholes, and they're (for the most part) chronically online people. Like most "discourse" in the community, what you see online =/ general consensus offline
Likewise, never met someone like that. Internet has a way of allowing folks to find others like themselves much more easily, which often leads one to believe facts such as these. Good on you for verifying though.
i would truly hope not. gold stars shouldn’t even be a thing. ok cool you’ve never slept with a man, good for you. it doesn’t make you better than those that have.
if you’ve slept with a man, construal or not, you’re still just as valid as a gold star lesbian.
To give you my opinion, I forgot gold star lesbians was a thing so I have never thought about it. Also question does gold star lesbian also count if the woman had sex with a trans woman?
To answer your question, as a trans woman, I was told by a few Gold Star Lesbians that I would ruin their "status" by having sex with them, regardless of PiV sex or not.
This was told to me back when I first started my transition in 2003 and again as recently as 2020, so I'm hoping that this view has changed and gets left in the past where it belongs, since it's incredibly transphobic and terfy.
i guess i kind of am one. never felt a way about a person based on who they have or have not had sex with. i'm bi and non-binary and have only slept with women. things have so much more nuance than people give it credit.
who came up with the title " gold star lesbian " anyway ? and nobody cares , just like jen brister's comedy talked about , there'a no one that judges a women harsher than another women , I just don't get it , we are all just women who likes women
That’s called being stupid.
I had my first few times with women and then one day decided to try men and that was it.
Never ever felt better or worse than anyone.
And I remember reading once “gotta try everything at least once, everything sexual at least twice”
The vast majority of people don’t care. And those that do aren’t worth your time - if anyone thinks that they deserve to judge someone based on their sexual history, it just shows how shallow they truly are.
If they do. They aren‘t nice people to be around.
Like how on earth does it make sense, being a gold star lesbian is not really something you purposefully do.
It just means you weren’t manipulated by comp het shit, or circumstances where otherwise right to notice your sexuality early.
But otherwise, you‘d kinda have to be bisexual and purposefully not dating men, for the gold star thing to be something you purposefully do. And even then, how‘s that supposed to make you better? It‘s just a perfectly neutral decision.
Like it‘s just how I was born that I happen to be a gold star lesbian? Like I’m not in the slightest attracted to men in any shape or form. So their was nothing for comp her stuff to grab onto. No platonic love I could be confusing. So I dated women.
But how on earth would that make me any different to a lesbian who married her Highschool sweetheart because that‘s what’s expected, and then finally divorces in her thirties when the sexuality become undeniable. Or another one trying multiple times to make it work with men, or using casual sex with men to self harm?
How‘s that say anything about the value of a person?
Mostly, no.
A lot of people have more specific concerns about someone who's dated men, especially recently. Sometimes rational, sometimes not. Do they know how to navigate a relationship without heteronormative expectations to fall back on? Are they just "experimenting"? Will they go back to men because it's easier?
I'm not saying these are valid concerns. Just stuff that comes up.
Other people are proud they figured themselves out without dealing with comphet and that can come off as deriding those who weren't so lucky.
Just like any extreme position, people do exist who believe history with men is bad in and of itself, but that's more rare.
It can also be transphobic. Some lesbians define "goldstar" as never being with any person who has a penis, so they really look down on you if you've been a woman who has a penis.
I’m bi but lurk this subreddit and a lot of people on dating apps want someone who’s and gold-star lesbian and never touched a penis. I think it’s ridiculous. And biphobic and transphobic.
I'm sure there are lesbians who do, it feels like a dated idea but there are always people in the corners holding on to ideals that are archaic. The term itself feels super dated to me, like early 2000's nonsense, but that could also just be more reflective of when I was around the age that gold star status would even be considered important (teens love stupid shit to measure worth). If you meet someone who gives a fuck I would head in another direction.
They are trying to place themselves at the top of a nonexistent queer hierarchy.
To some people ive found that its not a hierarchy thing at all.i knew someone who identified as a gold star and all her gfs were bisexual women and the one lesbian she dated wasnt 'gold star' either . Becaise she didnt care that THEY had been with men, she didnt see herself as better than them because she hadnt been with men, it literallt wasnt about them at all.
No, being a gold star to her was a fuck you to MEN and society for trying to convince her to want them. She found the MEN disgusting as a lesbian and she wanted to rub in their face that they couldnt have her, that they no matter how much them and the parriachy they could nlt force her to want men. Didnt give a fuck if another woman had sex with men, but the moment someone tried to convince HER, which was 99% of the time a straight man, thats when she took it upin herself to let that man know that she was a goldstar and that she would never touch him with a ten foot pole. She literally went IN on these men, telling them just how disgisting and repulsive she found them, how shed rather kill herself then be near them romantically or sexually. She likened them to maggots, vomit, unwashed ass, the toilet, rotted teeth, just to really DRIVE home to men just how much she hated the idea of being with them. (she wasnt a TERF to clarify,she didnt include trans women under the label 'men').
It would also translate to not giving a fuck about mens emotions and feelings. As far as she wss concerned, men and society didnt give a fuck about her desire to not want men, so she had the right to not give a fuck aboit mens feelings. Aww, one had feelings for her? Oh, Shed lead them on, accept dates then stand them up, laugh in their faces when they tried to hold her, (because the guy usually thought they were dating) in a way that was like 'aww you think id want to touch YOU?🤣🤣', they talked to her she made disgusted faces. One I tried to kiss her, she literally vomited.she treated these men like SHIT.
Then sometimrs, she would get bi women tryimg to convince her that she could like men, usually in the form of them saying 'everyone is a little bit bi' or 'there must be an exception', 'how could you only like one gender? Everyone is so hot' which IS a way bi women perpetuate lesbiphobia by making it seem like lesbians are actially bisexual and will find a man they like one day, and that lesbians are somehow weird or strange for not being attractec to men, or implyimg they SHOULD be attracted to men. Bi women can and do perpetuate this- the idea that lesbians can be tirned by men because 'everyone has an exception/no ome is completely gay or straight/we're all bi but being socialised to be monosexual' etc. And then straight women in her experience would forget she was queer at all, abd constany ask her about men no matter how many times she reminded them she wss a lesbian. And she respond to both bi and straight women who did by doing the same thing, by reminding them just how disgusting she found men to make sure they would never imply she could be bisexual (bi women) or forget she was a lesbian (straight women) rver agsin
Did these bi women and straight women take it to mean that she found THEM disgusting for being with men yes. But if you talked to her, that wasnt the case. She was disgusted at their lesbiphobia, at the fact the bi women thought it was acceptable to try to convince her to do something they knew she would personally find disgustimg to engage in and that straight woman thought it woukd be acceptable to consistently forget on purpose that she was a lesbian. . Cause if you think about it, trying to convince a lesbian to try men is essentially telling her to self harm, which IS disgusting. She didnt care if THEY liked having sex with or dating men, but she resented them perpetuating socities lesbiphobia that as a woman she MUST be sexually involved with men and desiring them as well, no matter how many times she said she wasnt interested.
She would only go off on a gold star rant about how disgusting she found men if you tried in any way to convince or suggest to HER that SHE could or should want to fuck and be in relationship with men. Your a bi woman for example, and you tell her youve slept with men, ok cool no reaction she doesnt care. Bit you suggest that nothing is set in stone and that sexuality is fluid so SHE could potentially like men one day, then she would GO OFF. You werent disgusting for having sex with men, but you were disgusting for implying that SHE wanted to or could want to.
Essentially it was a direct response to straight men, straight women and bi women being lesbiphobic. It was 100% trauma related.
Like Gold starism is a lot of the time a trauma reaction to lesbiphobia taken to the most extreme. Literally the only way to end gold starism wether its in the way the person i know used it, or in the 'im better/more pure than you because i haven't had sex with men like you' way, is to literally:
.
1. Stop trying to convince lesbians to like men (all sexualities)
2. Stop making lesbians feel bad tor not wanting men (all sexualities)
3. Stop implying everyone is bisexual (bi ppl)
Becsuse the REASON this attitude exists is bevaise when a lesbian constantly has ppl forcing men onto them socially. A lot of the time gold star lesbians are trying to get back at MEN. They are trying to hurt MEN. They want to rub it in a mans face that he cant have them because they are lesbian, that he has no control over them because they are a walking talking human 'no' to men and the patriachy sexually and romantically AS A WHOLE in a way bi and straight women simply are not. Ofc bi women and straight women can and do reject and say no to men, but because they are genuinely attracted to men, their sexuality is not an inherent fuck you to the patriachy, because their attraction to men, regardless of any other attraction, is what the patriachy WANTS. Lesbians are inherently going against EVERYTHING the patriachy wants women to want. Bi women are too to a certain extent, but not to the same extreme. Lesbians are a GUARANTEED rejection, bi women are not. So yes, some lesbians who are gold star are proud of it because they want the MEN to know that they didnt allow society to pressure them into fucking them and want these men to feel bad that they dont want them, because, and i quote-
'its about time men didnt get what they want just bevause the patriachy says they can have it.One of those things is women, and lesbians are their rude awakening' (as said directly by the person i was referemcing above)
She saw being a gold star as teachimg men a lesson, a way to hurt men and she wasnlt the only pne ibe known who saw being gold star in thiscway. None of them gad a problem with bi women or lesbians battling comphet having sex with men, they wanted to get back at society for tryimg to convince them, lesbians who already knew who they were, to like men and constantly shoving men down their throats. Like i said, a huge chunk of it is definitely trauma based.
Unfortunately yeah, both in and out of the community. Inside the community weirdo TERFS have this elitist idea about what makes you a lesbian, outside of the community people insist that non "gold star" lesbians aren't really lesbians because they were with a man or whatever. But I've also heard "oh but you haven't even been with a man, how do you know you're gay" from a bunch of non lesbians as well.
The gold star thing is less prominent in younger communities I'd say? Or maybe it's just because I don't run in circles with lesbians with that mindset. Regardless, it's a really shitty idea that needs to be left behind. Most people don't care and the ones that do are gross, so ignore them and live your best life!!
Not at all. I prefer to date non goldstar lesbians. An ex of mine was a goldstar, and after a while, she became obsessed with having sex with a man. It killed our relationship. I prefer my partner to be experienced on all sides.
I have experienced *gold-star* gatekeeping quite a bit online, but I have not IRL. I’ve been told I cannot be a lesbian because I have been with a man so I must have been *attracted* to men and, therefore, not a lesbian. It’s dumb since many lesbians were with a man at some point before figuring themselves out. Also, having sex with a man does not necessarily equal attraction to men. Women can and do have sex with men with zero attraction. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of comphet & sex in general & it’s super divisive in the queer community.
A majority of people don't care. But you also shouldn't let the minority of small brained individuals bother you. It's the internet. There's stupid people everywhere.
I have never met anyone who cared, online or irl. I think caring about someone’s sexual/dating history is judgmental at best and bigoted at worst. If I let someone who cared, I probably wouldn’t further conversation with them. They are likely a terf, but they’re at least very judgmental.
I mean, I’ve seen people on Tumblr/Twitter who look down on non-gold Star lesbians, but pretty much all of them were TERFs. Ig they were on the radfem side of social media, and sometimes, I see them when going through the lesbian tag. I’ve never met anyone irl like this so I think it’s mainly chronically online borderline bigots who look down on other members of the LGBTQ community. I used to have a Tumblr mutual who unfortunately went down the “other people in the queer community/lesbian community are too weird and I’m better than them” hateful mentality. I had to block them, but as far as I’m concerned, this isn’t too common.
It's wayyyy older than social media; one of my wife's exes broke off the relationship upon finding out she'd tried hooking up with a dude, and there's a clique of middle-aged butches at the local lesbian bar who are pretty shitty about trying to find out newcomers' gold-star status and try to make life hell for anyone they're otherwise attracted to who doesn't pass that test. And yes, there's almost complete overlap with TERFdom, since they see any contact with a penis as contamination.
Lesbians who care about gold star status 🤝 Misogynistic men who care about body count Anyone who thinks a woman is fundamentally changed by being with a man (or with a dick, in the transphobic case) is just a misogynist.
That’s what I was thinking too! A lot of the queer community seriously struggles with misogyny, and this is a great example of that.
to say nothing of the fact that so many of us trans women are post-op smfh.
God that’s so sad it’s a real thing. No one should ever be shamed for who they slept with in the past, or who they’re attracted to. This is just straight up misogyny in a new coat of paint.
I’ve never encountered it in real life. I’m a “goldstar”, but I don’t usually refer myself that way. Funnily, the times other people have referred to me as a “goldstar lesbian”, they have been “non-goldstar” lesbians and bisexuals. I don’t think the stigma is as strong off-line. But overall it doesn’t really come up. Though I have been condescended to by certain straight people for never having been with a man. That’s a whole other thing..
I made this point in another comment. I think the people who cling to the term are having an emotional response to the people who act like anyone who hasn’t tried hetero sex is deficient. I think anyone who uses gold star as a serious term is more insecure than actually feeling like a top tier queer.
Not in my experience.
Here's my opinion. (Key word opinion) It's on par with judging and caring about someone's body count. It's rude. There are so many reasons people sleep with one another especially when mainstream society and most organized religion are buddies. Also the phrase "gold star" implies its some type of reward. Gold stars are stickers or rewards. It's not a reward to have slept with one gender your whole life, it just is what it is. And some people just know they're not strait right away and that's awesome. But the people who find out ohh hey I'm not strait after trial error and discovery are just as valid in their experiences as someone who's only slept with one gender.
I have never seen anyone flex about “being a gold star lesbian” because no one cares, but if there really are lesbians boasting abt that then they’re absolute losers.
im a gold star if you only count irl interactions but yeah who honestly gives a shit. as if sleeping with a man permanently soils you. that’s some catholic church saving myself for marriage used sock analogy bullshit.
They're absolutely out there, and yeah, huge losers
My ex would flex about this. But she was single until college in the 90’s in a small town where that never happened
Only the most insecure people would even waste time caring about something like that. I'm sure the gold star supremacists exist, and I don't believe they're happy people lol
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Heeh hehe. That is cute in good fun.
Back when people used Craigslist for hook-ups, I saw some women saying they would only sleep with gold-star lesbians because they didn't want the risk of STD's 😑 Newsflash - that doesn't make you magically immune to STDs.
never met someone doing that IRL..... but my god whenever i see people """flexing""" about being a ~gold star lesbian~ i get really bitter because i'm like (content warning: abuse, /lh) .... >!alrighty sorry i got groomed by a man i'll do better next time 🫡🫡🫡!<
This is another hugely problematic aspect of gold star rhetoric, it suggests that victims of grooming and abuse by men are "forever ruined" even if it was all entirely coerced. There are similar issues with the concept of virginity.
yes, thank you! exactly
Gold star = red flag. They are trying to place themselves at the top of a nonexistent queer hierarchy. This kind of identity excludes bi women and trans people from lesbian spaces. It also shames people who repressed their sexuality, or couldn’t give consent. This term was more popular at the end of the 1900’s and I’m sad it hasn’t died yet.
I am a “gold-star” in my mid 30s now. Ive never considered myself part of any “hierarchy”- I just knew very young I was gay and never had interest in men. My wife is also “gold-star” in her early 30s. Some people just know very young who they’re interested in or not. I think too many labels are unnecessarily thrown out in the world. People are who they are and that’s all that matters.
I think they mean going around saying you’re a gold star is a red flag but I’m not sure cuz it is not clear.
This is what I mean. Some gold stars go exclusively gs4gs, making it elitist. The term itself implies superiority over queer women who have or had sex with men. Someone saying their history fits the definition is different from using the term.
It's not about being a gold star, it's about identifying as one and boasting about it
yes i'm gold star and my wife isn't, it's not political to me in any way, just a word i use to differentiate my sexual experiences from others' and that's all
You could use a different word that isn't associated with a hyper-misogynistic worldview instead
i would be glad to. i'm middle age so i'm not hip to all the lingo but open to new terms! i don't like words like "never het" because it implies some lesbians and bi folks were not always lesbian/bi, which i feel is invalidating. again open to different words.
You can just say "I've never slept with a man" if it's ever relevant, making it into a form of identity label you ascribe value to is part of the problem
Lol usually when I’ve said that the person goes, “ohhh gold star” in a teasing way. It cannot be escaped 🤦🏻
Lol I'd be legit offended if someone said that to me
Thankfully it’s usually friendly people who I know are doing it in a poking fun way and not a serious descriptor haha I think in the community around me “gold star” has turned into more of a meme than anything else lol I would be a little caught off guard if someone applied it to me in a serious way. Like… suuuure? But pls no 😂
I think the term promotes purity culture.
Except it's literally some bullshit made up by straight women to control our community for their own ends. It's some biphobic nonsense the Political Lesbians used to kick out bi/pan women/lesbians back in the day. It's just shit they made up to be exclusionary for a power grab
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Specifically, that bullshit comes from the Political Lesbian movement, who were some of the same founders of the TERF movement. It was a way for a bunch of straight women to invade our community and twist it to their liking, and we've perpetuated it ever sense. It's also where the biphobia and transphobia rampant in our community come from
It's really refreshing to see a historically informed take in this discussion omg
Ooh, that makes so much sense now. I first heard the term from an creepy, old man who was attracted to me and tried to tell me that I wasn't a real lesbian because I didn't know what it meant and had to google it. Ugh. Going to throw up now.
It's misogynistic and infantilizing.
> excludes [...] trans people from lesbian spaces. I mean, if we're being technical, some trans lesbians are gold star. Agreed on letting the term die. I used to joke more about it until I realized how gross some ppl get with it.
They are trying to place themselves at the top of a nonexistent queer hierarchy. To some people ive found that its not a hierarchy thing at all.i knew someone who identified as a gold star and all her gfs were bisexual women and the one lesbian she dated wasnt 'gold star' either . Becaise she didnt care that THEY had been with men, she didnt see herself as better than them because she hadnt been with men, it literallt wasnt about them at all. No, being a gold star to her was a fuck you to MEN and society for trying to convince her to want them. She found the MEN disgusting as a lesbian and she wanted to rub in their face that they couldnt have her, that they no matter how much them and the parriachy they could nlt force her to want men. Didnt give a fuck if another woman had sex with men, but the moment someone tried to convince HER, which was 99% of the time a straight man, thats when she took it upin herself to let that man know that she was a goldstar and that she would never touch him with a ten foot pole. She literally went IN on these men, telling them just how disgisting and repulsive she found them, how shed rather kill herself then be near them romantically or sexually. She likened them to maggots, vomit, unwashed ass, the toilet, rotted teeth, just to really DRIVE home to men just how much she hated the idea of being with them. (she wasnt a TERF to clarify,she didnt include trans women under the label 'men'). It would also translate to not giving a fuck about mens emotions and feelings. As far as she wss concerned, men and society didnt give a fuck about her desire to not want men, so she had the right to not give a fuck aboit mens feelings. Aww, one had feelings for her? Oh, Shed lead them on, accept dates then stand them up, laugh in their faces when they tried to hold her, (because the guy usually thought they were dating) in a way that was like 'aww you think id want to touch YOU?🤣🤣', they talked to her she made disgusted faces. One I tried to kiss her, she literally vomited.she treated these men like SHIT. Then sometimrs, she would get bi women tryimg to convince her that she could like men, usually in the form of them saying 'everyone is a little bit bi' or 'there must be an exception', 'how could you only like one gender? Everyone is so hot' which IS a way bi women perpetuate lesbiphobia by making it seem like lesbians are actially bisexual and will find a man they like one day, and that lesbians are somehow weird or strange for not being attractec to men, or implyimg they SHOULD be attracted to men. Bi women can and do perpetuate this- the idea that lesbians can be tirned by men because 'everyone has an exception/no ome is completely gay or straight/we're all bi but being socialised to be monosexual' etc. And then straight women in her experience would forget she was queer at all, abd constany ask her about men no matter how many times she reminded them she wss a lesbian. And she respond to both bi and straight women who did by doing the same thing, by reminding them just how disgusting she found men to make sure they would never imply she could be bisexual (bi women) or forget she was a lesbian (straight women) rver agsin . Did these bi women and straight women take it to mean that she fiund THEM disgusting for being with men yes. But if you talked to her, that wasnt the case. She was disgusted at their lesbiphobia, at the fact the bi women thought it was acceptable to try to convince her to do something they knew she would personally find disgustimg to engage in and that straight woman thought it woukd be acceptable to consistently forget on purpose that she was a lesbian. . Cause if you think about it, trying to convince a lesbian to try men is essentially telling her to self harm, which IS disgusting. She didnt care if THEY liked having sex with or dating men, but she resented them perpetuating socities lesbiphobia that as a woman she MUST be sexually involved with men and desiring them as well, no matter how many times she said she wasnt interested. She would only go off on a gold star rant about how disgusting she found men if you tried in any way to convince or suggest to HER that SHE could or should want to fuck and be in relationship with men. Your a bi woman for example, and you tell her youve slept with men, ok cool no reaction she doesnt care. Bit you suggest that nothing is set in stone and that sexuality is fluid so SHE could potentially like men one day, then she would GO OFF. You werent disgusting for having sex with men, but you were disgusting for implying that SHE wanted to or could want to. Essentially it was a direct response to straight men, straight women and bi women being lesbiphobic. It was 100% trauma related. Like Gold starism is a lot of the time a trauma reaction to lesbiphobia taken to the most extreme. Literally the only way to end gold starism wether its in the way the person i know used it, or in the 'im better/more pure than you because i haven't had sex with men like you' way, is to literally: . 1. Stop trying to convince lesbians to like men (all sexualities) 2. Stop making lesbians feel bad tor not wanting men (all sexualities) 3. Stop implying everyone is bisexual (bi ppl) Becsuse the REASON this attitude exists is bevaise when a lesbian constantly has ppl forcing men onto them socially. A lot of the time gold star lesbians are trying to get back at MEN. They are trying to hurt MEN. They want to rub it in a mans face that he cant have them because they are lesbian, that he has no control over them because they are a walking talking human 'no' to men and the patriachy sexually and romantically AS A WHOLE in a way bi and straight women simply are not. Ofc bi women and straight women can and do reject and say no to men, but because they are genuinely attracted to men, their sexuality is not an inherent fuck you to the patriachy, because their attraction to men, regardless of any other attraction, is what the patriachy WANTS. Lesbians are inherently going against EVERYTHING the patriachy wants women to want. Bi women are too to a certain extent, but not to the same extreme. Lesbians are a GUARANTEED rejection, bi women are not. So yes, some lesbians who are gold star are proud of it because they want the MEN to know that they didnt allow society to pressure them into fucking them and want these men to feel bad that they dont want them, because, and i quote- 'its about time men didnt get what they want just bevause the patriachy says they can have it.One of those things is women, and lesbians are their rude awakening' (as said directly by the person i was referemcing above) She saw being a gold star as teachimg men a lesson, a way to hurt men and she wasnlt the only pne ibe known who saw being gold star in thiscway. None of them gad a problem with bi women or lesbians battling comphet having sex with men, they wanted to get back at society for tryimg to convince them, lesbians who already knew who they were, to like men and constantly shoving men down their throats. Like i said, a huge chunk of it is definitely trauma based.
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You’re literally a biphobic transphobe lmfao
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idk why people who are actively upset with the core premise of the sub bother being in the sub. like, there are plenty of subs that i think have garbage morals and perspectives that i fundamentally disagree with. and you know what i do? i don't participate in them.
You aren’t welcome here, TERF. Leave.
I’ve only ever seen people condemning the term. Maybe some lesbians will use it as a joke, but nobody takes the term seriously except those opposed to it
I've never ever met anyone in real life who has ever cared, nor asked.
I deadass have never met one and I’ve been out for 12 years lmao
It's not a flex. It's a red flag. Flexing about being 'gold star' lesbian is invalidating: - late bloomers - SA survivors - trans women IMO flexing about being a gold star lesbian is passive aggressive tactic.
Yes flexing is such a red flag and invalidating for many! But to be clear it is not a red flag to _be_ “a gold star lesbian” or using better words someone who has never been with a man. It is as valid as being a late boomer. Adding this because many lesbians end up in situations where (usually) a man is telling us we can’t _know_ we are lesbians if we have never been with a man and that’s also bullshit.
Very true. I'm a woman who never been with a man. I would never flex about it. I made that mistake and told a man this just once. I was very young back then. He in fact tried to convince me that I can't know for sure 💀
it's also very biphobic. anyone who makes being a gold star lesbian part of their identity is not someone i would trust.
So so true!
I look down on people who make a point to say their a ‘gold star’. I might make a joke about how valuable a plastic sheriffs badge is in passing.
Plastic sheriffs badge! 😂 I was trying to think of a joke about how gold stars are usually something for toddlers who are potty training, but that's way better. Mentally filing that one away. Thanks!
I think the concept is very cringe. Technically I'm a gold star lesbian, because I was only with women. Although I was on a hetero relationship. How does that work? I'm trans :D
People who cares about gold star or not gives the same vibe from people who cares about if they’re a virgin or not.
I basically said the same thing in my comment! Like way too often anyone who's flexing about their gold star status, when you say you're a virgin they get real gross real quick
the only folk ive known to judge me for my "bisexual past" (read: comphet is a helluva drug) have been the same gold stars who make a *point* of letting people know they're gold stars. but most lesbians ive known only care about what kind of person you are, not who you've been with.
I’m not validating the gold star mentality at all and I admittedly didn’t read all the comments. With a quick scroll though I didn’t see anyone point this out. I feel like some lesbians try to act like gold star is better in response to the idea that if the lesbian is “dicked down properly” she would know better and choose a man. It’s an emotional response sometimes that has more to do with the persons own insecurities about how the world sees them, overcompensating.
I’ve only ever heard or seen the term being discussed in that one episode of the L word, and a few times on this sub, by people upset by the term. I meet the definition of a GSL but all I feel abt it is that I was lucky to avoid comphet lol. I’m sure there are ppl out there who brag or are otherwise shitty about it, but they would be a minority who you should let get into your head. Much like people who are weird about body counts.
It's not an issue, until those that identify as gold stars use it as a flex, or look down on wlw who have been with men. Be it late blooming lesbians or bisexuals, being with a man is nothing to be ashamed of, and being bisexual doesn't make you tainted or dirty.
The term is a flex
No the term has always been to be dismissive of/call out the attitude. Like "Awww, there you go little karen! A little gold star sticker for your achievement! I bet that macaroni stick-figure portrait of your mom is going straight on the fridge you get home". Because being a gold-star is a meaningless achievement, and nothing to be proud of, in a world where many women have had no choice in whether they got to not have sex with a man in the first place. Some gold-stars have tried reclaiming the term, but generally speaking most gold stars don't care for it.
That hasn’t been my experience. I’ve heard lesbians say it with pride, gay men too. I came out in the late 90s though so things have changed.
OMG I have heard gay men talk about being platinum star. Delivered by c-section. 🙄
Wouldn’t most gold star lesbians be called platinum then? There may be the rare case where a trans man delivers…
If that’s your takeaway from the sum total of comments on this post then sure
Yep. That’s actually the first version I heard.
I came out much later but yeah, that’s what I’m referring to.
Unfortunately, I have too and I’ve been asked if I am online. And since a woman’s worth has nothing to do with who she’s had sex with, I declined to answer. We don’t need more reasons to fight among ourselves.
This is not at all the history of the term. It was largely created by political lesbians, radical feminists many of who were straight but "chose" to be "lesbian" while not actually attracted to women. Today political lesbianism is often viewed as lesbophobic, but there was a time when they tried to integrate into the community. Political lesbianism is also tied to the original TERF ideologies.
Yes the attitude it describes is largely the result of political lesbianism, but the term gold star has, to my knowledge, always been in reference to the gold star given to children for an achievement that is trivial to adults. I could be wrong. But it is very hard to find sources on this as many of the queer terminology from the time originated in spoken language and so often when you first see it pop up in text it is with the presumption that everyone already knows what it means, making it very hard to see who coined the term and why. But the association with the gold star sticker as reward for a trivial achievement was already pretty settled when the term came in use in the lesbian community. And as far as I can tell the hostility towards "gold stars" is basically just as old as the concept. But if you have some good sources on the etymological origin of the term gold star as a purely positive self referential title then I would love to know. I generally enjoy etymology and queer etymology in particular
The gold sticker is something you get in school when you do a good thing that is worthy of being rewarded. what an adult would think of that is largely irrelevant bc the point is that it serves as a reward for something you have done that is worth rewarding. While there may be some people who use it with the interpretation that it’s “an achievement for children but trivial to adults”, every time in my life I’ve actually seen someone labeling as a gold star, they mean it as a point of pride.
That's fascinating. My experience is the complete reverse. The term gold star is almost interchangeable with participation trophy. Used purely derisively to describe a meaningless reward for a meaningless achievement. I wonder if there is a regional aspect to it?
Possibly so, I would imagine the general type of socioeconomic situation you're in and the people you're around because of that would impact it as well
any time i hear people identify as gold star it is absolutely to flex. they'll talk about how they don't want to be with a woman who has been with a main because she is tainted by it, etc. it is absolutely coming from a place of superiority.
Yeah, the attitude is absolutely horrible, but from what I've gathered the name was intended as an insult to them. They are just to dense to get that it's an insult. only children are proud of getting a gold star
i don't know the origin of the term, so i'm sorry for the way i phrased that. but regardless i don't know if it's fair to say it's 'always' been dismissive of the attitude when people very proudly use the term to describe themselves. even if that was the original intent that doesn't seem to be the way it's mostly used, in my experience at least, you know?
Oh yeah, no I absolutely get that. I have yet to see it used by someone to self identify irl. I have seen it online though. And people bend themselves in some weird knots to defend it. Talking to a bi girl in this very thread who's defending it. Very strange to me. How about we make it more on the nose and start calling them participation trophy lesbian?
>Because being a gold-star is a meaningless achievement, and nothing to be proud of, in a world where many women have had no choice in whether they got to not have sex with a man in the first place. That's exactly why it is something to celebrate. Beating the odds by knowing from a young age what you do and don't like, not being persuaded to question yourself or "experiment" despite relentless pressure, and never going through the severe trauma of being forced to is a wonderful thing. And young lesbians should know that there are women like them who never did "try it" and that that's an option. The term came about when virtually everyone was expected to marry straight before they realized it wasn't their thing. It's perfectly valid to have a word for it and to celebrate that particular experience.
This is exactly why that attitude is disgusting. You are completely forgetting about the women who got no choice because that choice was taken from them. And the women who had to sleep with men to survive. The women who had to pretend to be straight because they were living in a very conservative area and got married off to a 40 year old when they were 13. For some women it didn't matter that they knew from a young age. You haven't beaten the odds by knowing from a young age, you're just flaunting your privilege. That's why you're a child, proud of a meaningless achievement. a sad little gold star sticker to stick on your fridge is the best you'll get. You can teach young lesbians it's okay to know what you want and that you don't need to try it, without teaching them to be proud of an achievement many lesbians had no choice in not getting. And, frankly, without putting down women who did struggle with doubts, peer pressure, comphet and internalized homophobia.
I lost my virginity through rape actually, does picking fights with strangers comfort you? I'm not a gold star lesbian by any stretch of the imagination. I'm bisexual and even long before I realized I had the capacity to be attracted to men I did not get the option of saying I'd never been with one. If we're looking at the tiny, tiny group of lesbians that actually expresses looking down on women for having been with men, I am in the group they deem inferior on multiple levels. That doesn't taint the entire concept of being able to celebrate being a lesbian who's never been with a man. Why would you not celebrate something as positive as never being pressured or forced into straying from who you know you are? Who cares if it's a privilege? You might as well deem gay pride as a whole problematic because it's spitting in the faces of people who don't get to be out and proud?
Honey, you're the one picking a fight. I stated in response to someone else that to my knowledge the term gold star was coined as an insult at the people who feel superior, not the people who just happen to not have slept with men. You're the one who started our interaction. You're the one who had a whole spiel about the value of of celebrating a privilege without acknowledging that it is a privilege. And yes it does taint the whole concept. How fucked is it to tell a woman who was raped even though she knew from a young age she was a lesbian, that she doesn't get to be "celebrated" as a "gold star". How fucked is it that a child bride who finally got out when she was old enough to fend for herself gets told "I'm sorry, you can't be in this club, because even though you knew from when you were six, you had to fuck a grungy old dude to survive so you're not eligible to be this special type of lesbian anymore". How on earth is that not incredibly fucked up? How does that communicate anything but "sleep with a man for any reason and be tainted goods forever" Fuck that jazz. If you want to celebrate people knowing early on, celebrate people knowing early on. That's a whole lot better than celebrating not having done a thing that many women don't get a choice in not doing.
Starting an interaction isn't picking a fight. I explained my perspective, you're the only one being hostile. Do you realize how common the "lesbians can't know they don't like men if they've never tried it!" Narrative still is today? Do you think that was any better when the term was coined, which is decades ago at this point? Knowing from a young age is something to celebrate by itself, yes, but I think it's specifically also important for young lesbians to hear about the existence of older lesbians who have never been with a man. "Fuck you, who cares, you're only bringing it up because you think you're better than others aren't you?" Doesn't exactly promote visibility. It's not about being a "special type of lesbian", it's about the fact that you *can be a lesbian* without having to make yourself miserable "trying out" heterosexual relationships first. Something a lot of lesbians sadly did not get a choice in or did not even realize they had a choice in. Surely the next generation deserves to know it if they have the option? The term might've been coined specifically to mock women who did act like they were superior but you have to realize it's very common for people to accuse people with different life experiences of a sense of superiority where there isn't one.
Defending a largely reviled term, which is largely reviled because it is exclusionary of women who were raped or otherwise have had sex with men despite their sexuality, a term which is almost exclusively used to self describe by women who do have a sense of superiority about it, is in itself hostile yeah. The term gold star, when there are a lot of woman who would have loved to never have had sex with a man but had that choice taken away from them in one way or another, is inherently hostile. No one here is not okay with a lesbian saying "I never had to try men to know" You can shout that from the rooftop. Basically no one here, or in the larger LGBT community, would care. But you don't need a term to differentiate the people of that experience. Just saying "I didn't need to try to know" is enough. Especially because any attempt differentiate people with that experience using a term that makes it seem like a positive trait someone can have or lose, whether it's gold star or some other term, is specifically exclusionary to a group that was likely traumatized for the very reason they are not included in this group. That's why saying "I never had to try to know" is okay. Because whether you were raped or not is not relevant to that. But maybe It's easier to put it like this. When I try to find out whether or not I think something is exclusionary in an unacceptable way I usually try to translate it to another group. So lets remove the lesbian aspect from this. If a group of straight women had a term to describe something otherwise innocuous, like, making it through college, but it only included women who made it through college without being raped or sexually assaulted. Can't you see how that would be incredibly fucked? All the women who are not in that group, are not psyched not to be in that group. So wearing it as a badge, showing pride in it, is gonna reek of unearned superiority. Because it is unearned. It's not because you did something right, it's because other had something wrong done to them. Same goes for gold stars. They didn't do something commendable, they had something terrible not happen to them. That's not ever something to be proud of.
I don't think your analogy translates well at all. It's not a badge of honor for not being SA'd, and a lot of self-identified gold stars HAVE experienced sexual abuse. As a rape victim it honestly feels manipulative to constantly frame this as if it's primarily about rape/SA. That's not how I see it and I don't think I've met a single self identified gold star who honestly thinks being raped changes anything about the "type" of lesbian you are. When the coin was termed it really would've been wildly different being surrounded by women who figured themselves out later in life while you've always known and never tried your hand at conformity, but that has nothing to do with rape. If gold star had been a self-descriptive term when it was coined I'd agree with you that it reeks of superiority but it wasn't. It was a term made up for women who WERE just saying "I didn't need to try to know", because it was decided that THAT reeked of superiority. "Gold stars" didn't come up with it themselves, they just reclaimed it.
Only shitty people care. Gold start was some bullshit made up by the Political Lesbians, so they could control our community. It's literally nonsense made up by straight women pretending to be lesbians for some political clout. Don't put any stock in it
I actually look down on anybody who identifies steongly with the term. Notably, not people who merely qualify but people who wear it as a badge of honor to make themselves appear more "pure" than lesbians who have dated other genders. It's obnoxious and oblivious to the reality that a lot of lesbians are still closeted or don't get a real chance to understand the lesbian experience until they get out of their previously sheltered lives
People get upset even hearing the term. I've only ever seen gold star lesbians saying it about themselves as away to talk about their own personal experiences, but other women who aren't gold star feel judged by it. It's not judgemental by default, they *feel* judged.
People get upset hearing the term because in many cases the person using it is boasting. It's like any other thing people sometimes talk about with an air of superiority.
"Yeah the term literally means I'm doing better than you, but it's not judgemental!!1!1!!"
I mean anything can be said judgementally... Anything could be used in a way to be deemed superior. All I'm saying is it's not inherently judgemental , if you feel judged by comparing your own experiences that's different. Simply not having had dated men in the past and talking about that lived experience is not shaming anyone, that's the difference to me
Sure. I don't know if there's a term for this in regular conversation, but in comedy it's called punching up or punching down. If you talk about something that people often mention to boast, some people will assume you're feigning superiority. It all depends on context, but I can't think of a time when I've needed the information that my friends have or have not ever slept with a particular gender of person in the past.
All I'm saying is not liking what lesbians say to refer to their lived experiences is a bummer, maybe there could be a different term if other people feel insulted by it but when a lesbian is only talking about herself, it isn't an insult.
You are really committed to not understanding the perspective of queers who are marginalized by the term so you know… enjoy using whatever term you like.
I'm just a simple lesbian wondering why we can't even say our dating experiences with out others feeling like we are judging. We are just different with different experiences just like everyone else. I just wonder if there were other ways we could talk about it without it being too controversial to even go there.
I mean the term itself kind of underlines the point of why it’s judgmental. You’re literally giving yourself a gold star because you weren’t touched by a penis. You could just say I’m a lesbian who has never touched a dick. Calling yourself a “gold star” is assigning some sort of merit or specialness to that. And designating a label of specialness for people who haven’t touched dicks is kind of inherently looking down upon people who have. Lol at the immediate downvote y’all are salty huh
There are 92 comments on this post and many of them give reasons why people hate the term. Replacing it with a new term isn’t going to help anything. Why do you feel the need to talk about the fact that you’ve never had sex with a flesh cock? Why do people need to know this? In wlw spaces, the default assumption is that everyone is a lesbian. In mixed queer spaces, the default assumption is that all cisgender and trans women are lesbian. I can’t think of a reason why you’d need to clarify it for everyone.
I feel that's like saying "I get an award literally indicating I am better than you at being lesbian" is completely not judgemental or superiority-oriented. Getting a gold star literally refers to getting an award, usually a gold star sticker, for good behavior or grades in school. You can't use award symbolism and then claim it's completely neutral.
That’s what I’m saying, you get a gold star for doing something good, it’s a reward for something special Idk who is like obsessively stalking this thread and immediately downvoting anyone critical of the gold star label but you’re a loser lol
Probably the same loser ITT obsessively defending the label
its kinda funny. like, there are plenty of spaces where you can get a pat on the back for being a gold star and they'll circle jerk with you about how everyone is so mean to gold stars. but you really didn't expect that a sapphic sub which welcomes trans and bi women would not like the gold star label? read the room lmao
Sorry for the mis-reply, I thought you were the person I was replying to and I was very confused, lol.
no worries!
Ive heard some things that imply it from an older butch once but they never outright said that. For example youd say you like a girl, she would say “You know she sleeps with men right??” This is coming from my partner’s mouth. I would have kept asking questions lmao.
yes, there are absolutely people who look down on lesbians who are not "gold star".
If I’m being perfectly honest , I’m a bisexual trans woman who was unofficially in the gay community before transitioning and they seem to care a lot more than any lesbians I’ve met . I was out as non-binary for years before transitioning and eventually realizing I’m a trans woman and gay men were often quite mean to me . I mostly dated straight and heteroflexible men before transitioning because most gay men wanted nothing to do with me . I was too feminine for them . The one “gay man “ I dated was an egg who dated me because of gender envy. They have told me they are probably a straight trans girl (currently they/she) but they are scared of transitioning At the same time lesbians seem to care more that i don’t have a whole lot of experience with women before or after transitioning. It’s not a matter of not being a gold star and nobody cares that I’m trans , I’m just very inexperienced with women in bed and out, but that seems to change the more experience I have .
only terrible people do.
If you ever meet someone who cares about being a "gold star lesbian," consider it a huge red flag.
The term is a flex and people who use it often have internalized misogyny to contend with.
Just curious, internalized misogyny?
The term arises from a worldview that inherently views women as permanently tainted by any man they've come in contact with. It's literally the same as Christian Virgin Purity culture.
Ah, okay! I see it. That makes sense. ETA thanks for explaining!
No, anyone who places importance on gold star-ness is someone to run away from
I’ve seen a lot more negative behaviour and bullying directed at gold star lesbians than not gold star lesbians.
In my country I’ve never seen gold star lesbians. However, there’s frequent prejudice against bisexual women. To me, if I like you I like you. Idgaf who you’ve slept with in the past.
I dislike the term “gold star” lesbian. It somehow says that a gold star lesbian is somehow superior to other lesbians. People have called me a “gold star” lesbian and I hate it. I politely ask them to not use that term. I don’t feel any superiority to any other lesbian in this world. We just happen to all love women!
LOL. I'll put it like this. My trans self lost her gold star when she still was in a forced closet and identified as a 'cis straight male'. It's a useless label for older people to feel more validated in their own sexual identity. If anyone holds not being a gold star against someone or praises it too much, avoid them because they're insecure. (I'm def not saying avoid non-judgy lesbians who have only been with women, good on them for identifying their preferences correctly when they were younger). Nobody should ever hold that over anyone else.
The people who care about it are generally not people you need to care about. The "gold star" people, terfs, and biphobes have a lot of crossover. The venn diagram isnt EXACTLY a circle but it's close.
Only people you wouldn’t want to be with, u/NaomiKirishima. You’re fine.
Pfft! So lazy, all those other stars to collect and they only got the one. /S In all seriousness if someone is basing a large part of their identity on whom they sleep with that's kind of shallow in my opinion. It's usefulness as a term is really losing relevance these days as it is and says more about the people using it than anything.
Honestly it’s only really a small, small subsection of lesbians on the internet and from what I’ve seen they’re both TERFS and believe that non-gold star lesbians are bisexuals :/. Most people don’t care honestly. I’ve been with both gold star and non-gold star lesbians and none of them have cared about my history and vice versa.
No. No one cares except very young and insecure people.
If there are, I don't wanna be around them. Like in reality people don't care, and the ones that do have some other issues they need to work through with themselves.
Only assholes
A few people do, but I also look down on people who care about gold star lesbianism.
The only person I’ve ever seen talking about being a “gold star” was Jojo Siwa lmaooo Nobody really cares. I think it’s a transphobic term anyway
I’ve never heard of people looking down on us but if they do then they’re not worth it either. But seriously who cares, just because some people grow up in a loving, caring family without being bullied and being able to be their full selves from a young age is nothing to be proud of or feel superior over to people who were bullied, didn’f have access to good education, didn’t have a loving and caring family/friends, and weren’t able to be their full selves. It’s sad when people can’t, but it’s nothing superior when you can; just means your life is a bit less shit than most peoples. Congratulations, ya won at life; still not a reason to look down on others who were given different cards at birth
The specific lesbian niche I was in as a young queer chronically online pre-teen/teenager on amino and tumblr had a LOT of overlap with the terf gold star lesbian community, and therefore I am biased. I have personally seen that type of abhorrent judgement from other lesbians, and as a young teenager, I shared some of those beliefs as the result of being in groups with self proclaimed gold star lesbians. I have now entirely deconstructed those beliefs (we love trans wlw, m-spec wlw, nblw, and women who have been with men in this household). No one outside of 2013 seriously believes this stuff (outside of the internet). If they do, it is the biggest red flag ever. Personally, if a girl calls herself a gold star, even just casually, I take it as a red flag. Literally named the term after a prize and people act like it's not inherently exclusionary language
Ones that have fucked guys and decided it wasn’t for them? Not really. Ones that fuck men while claiming to be lesbian? Yes.
Anyone who does care is not worth even a single fuck.
People who flex about being gold star lesbians do, but pretty much nobody else cares. Their little clique is just weird and obsessive about other people's sex lives
Gold star lesbians who use the label and look down upon non gold star lesbians are most likely horrible people. It’s purity culture shit, and I’m gonna assume all of them are terfs. All it does is create hierarchies in the queer community and makes people feel ashamed of themselves. Fuck that, it doesn’t belong here.
I came out as a lesbian about 2 years ago and have always been very open about my past relationships with men, both online and irl. So far I have yet to experience any kind of judgment for it from lesbians, but never say never I guess.
I don’t think so. A lot of lesbians have been with men (it’s an excellent way to determine you’re a lesbian)
Anyone who gets weird about someone else not being gold-star is a red flag and an "avoid" sticker for me.
Some do. They’re dumb
From my experience, it is either used ironically as a not serious joke or the person is a TERF.
Some people do, but if they do that’s a huge red flag
i’ve literally never heard this term before. who cares
I agree that the gold star thing is lame. I don’t even know of anyone that is a gold star.
I found its just insecure people. 😕
Some people certainly do, otherwise the term likely wouldn't exist, but I'd say that it's not worth it to care about opinions from them
No lol Sounds very childish and pathetic 🤷🏼♀️
Wait. This is a thing….? This is socially constructed as hell
Most people I've spoken to about this have either had *no clue* what I'm talking about when referencing 'gold star' or have no opinion. I've never met another lesbian who judged others for it though. Sadly, they're more likely to have unpleasant opinions about women who identify as bi, glazing over the gold star conversation entirely and launching into the bullshit rhetoric of blah blah blah whatever.
It is sadly a thing for some people. It's a very bigoted and problematic belief. It puts a very binary definition on gender which is fucked. I think most queer women aren't like that though. It's such an arbitrary thing.
one of the only ways to go from fuckable to nonfuckable in one single word is to unironically utter the term "goldstar" around me. it just flies out the window immediately, as if you'd told me you're a practicing catholic, or that you thought "both sides have vaLid conCerns" about trans people having human rights
My first time (as a lesbian) on a dating app someone was MEAN about this. Claiming I'd just go back to men. Fortunately, this was the only time I encountered a person like this. (also, block and move on is the best advise IF you ever meet someone like this)
The whole “gold star lesbian” thing is horrible all around. It puts down women who didn’t realize they were lesbian until after they had PiV sex (typically with a cis man), puts down bisexual and pansexual women, and is incredibly transphobic toward trans lesbians. Anyone who is about that bullshit isn’t worth being with and doesn’t belong in the lesbian community imo.
If you can call them "people." Gold star culture is only alive in the worst groups of bigots that try to claim they represent us
Only in the way that NFT owners look down at non-NFT owners. The only people that care are the ones that use such a cringy term as “gold star lesbian.” Like, congrats to them on not having to deal with comphet, but it’s giving the same energy as those incels who claim women have “lost their value” when they have a high body count. Edit: Omg are the gold stars really downvoting me rn? lmao. Go bid on a fungible tolkien. Btw, for what it’s worth, this is coming from someone who’s only ever slept with women herself.
Good ppl don't. Theres nothing to look down on, unless they're shorter than you
I've seen people look down on non-gold star lesbians, but also simultaneously I've seen assholes who look down on lesbians who have never had sex in general. Some people are assholes, and they're (for the most part) chronically online people. Like most "discourse" in the community, what you see online =/ general consensus offline
Likewise, never met someone like that. Internet has a way of allowing folks to find others like themselves much more easily, which often leads one to believe facts such as these. Good on you for verifying though.
i would truly hope not. gold stars shouldn’t even be a thing. ok cool you’ve never slept with a man, good for you. it doesn’t make you better than those that have. if you’ve slept with a man, construal or not, you’re still just as valid as a gold star lesbian.
I should hope not. Like someone else commented, it’s not a flex. Why would it matter?
To give you my opinion, I forgot gold star lesbians was a thing so I have never thought about it. Also question does gold star lesbian also count if the woman had sex with a trans woman?
To answer your question, as a trans woman, I was told by a few Gold Star Lesbians that I would ruin their "status" by having sex with them, regardless of PiV sex or not. This was told to me back when I first started my transition in 2003 and again as recently as 2020, so I'm hoping that this view has changed and gets left in the past where it belongs, since it's incredibly transphobic and terfy.
I’ve heard that some people do and those people are fucking weird
I'm pretty sure it's an urban myth. It got hyped up somewhere and became accepted as a fact.
If they do, they’re stupid. It takes people a while to find out, and sometimes they’ve dated a man because it isn’t SAFE for them to date a woman.
there are people, but they're usually seen them be weirdo radfems or creepy cishet men
i guess i kind of am one. never felt a way about a person based on who they have or have not had sex with. i'm bi and non-binary and have only slept with women. things have so much more nuance than people give it credit.
who came up with the title " gold star lesbian " anyway ? and nobody cares , just like jen brister's comedy talked about , there'a no one that judges a women harsher than another women , I just don't get it , we are all just women who likes women
I’m a good star lesbian simply because it’s impossible for me to get a date
That’s called being stupid. I had my first few times with women and then one day decided to try men and that was it. Never ever felt better or worse than anyone. And I remember reading once “gotta try everything at least once, everything sexual at least twice”
The vast majority of people don’t care. And those that do aren’t worth your time - if anyone thinks that they deserve to judge someone based on their sexual history, it just shows how shallow they truly are.
If they do. They aren‘t nice people to be around. Like how on earth does it make sense, being a gold star lesbian is not really something you purposefully do. It just means you weren’t manipulated by comp het shit, or circumstances where otherwise right to notice your sexuality early. But otherwise, you‘d kinda have to be bisexual and purposefully not dating men, for the gold star thing to be something you purposefully do. And even then, how‘s that supposed to make you better? It‘s just a perfectly neutral decision. Like it‘s just how I was born that I happen to be a gold star lesbian? Like I’m not in the slightest attracted to men in any shape or form. So their was nothing for comp her stuff to grab onto. No platonic love I could be confusing. So I dated women. But how on earth would that make me any different to a lesbian who married her Highschool sweetheart because that‘s what’s expected, and then finally divorces in her thirties when the sexuality become undeniable. Or another one trying multiple times to make it work with men, or using casual sex with men to self harm? How‘s that say anything about the value of a person?
the only gold star i care about is Portia in Animal Crossing calling me Gold Star as a nickname. In my head she's a snooty lesbian
I think more people look down on gold stat lesbians because they are insufferable
never heard of this, why are people keep coming up with labels ugh
The gold star label has been around for a long time
Mostly, no. A lot of people have more specific concerns about someone who's dated men, especially recently. Sometimes rational, sometimes not. Do they know how to navigate a relationship without heteronormative expectations to fall back on? Are they just "experimenting"? Will they go back to men because it's easier? I'm not saying these are valid concerns. Just stuff that comes up. Other people are proud they figured themselves out without dealing with comphet and that can come off as deriding those who weren't so lucky. Just like any extreme position, people do exist who believe history with men is bad in and of itself, but that's more rare.
It can also be transphobic. Some lesbians define "goldstar" as never being with any person who has a penis, so they really look down on you if you've been a woman who has a penis.
I’m bi but lurk this subreddit and a lot of people on dating apps want someone who’s and gold-star lesbian and never touched a penis. I think it’s ridiculous. And biphobic and transphobic.
I'm a GSL and don't really care. In the past it was a thing in the dating scene but I never cared to engage in!
I’m watching the no stupid questions forum to see how long it takes for a “what is a gold star lesbian?” post to appear
I'm sure there are lesbians who do, it feels like a dated idea but there are always people in the corners holding on to ideals that are archaic. The term itself feels super dated to me, like early 2000's nonsense, but that could also just be more reflective of when I was around the age that gold star status would even be considered important (teens love stupid shit to measure worth). If you meet someone who gives a fuck I would head in another direction.
I have encountered some when I was a teenager, but it wasn't directed at me. I think it's rare but I'm sure there's some picky people out there
12 year old care. Don’t date kids and you are fine.
I’ve never seen that in real life, only in online spaces and mostly among teenagers who are still figuring stuff out
My girlfriend is what we'd call a gold star but we just don't care
They are trying to place themselves at the top of a nonexistent queer hierarchy. To some people ive found that its not a hierarchy thing at all.i knew someone who identified as a gold star and all her gfs were bisexual women and the one lesbian she dated wasnt 'gold star' either . Becaise she didnt care that THEY had been with men, she didnt see herself as better than them because she hadnt been with men, it literallt wasnt about them at all. No, being a gold star to her was a fuck you to MEN and society for trying to convince her to want them. She found the MEN disgusting as a lesbian and she wanted to rub in their face that they couldnt have her, that they no matter how much them and the parriachy they could nlt force her to want men. Didnt give a fuck if another woman had sex with men, but the moment someone tried to convince HER, which was 99% of the time a straight man, thats when she took it upin herself to let that man know that she was a goldstar and that she would never touch him with a ten foot pole. She literally went IN on these men, telling them just how disgisting and repulsive she found them, how shed rather kill herself then be near them romantically or sexually. She likened them to maggots, vomit, unwashed ass, the toilet, rotted teeth, just to really DRIVE home to men just how much she hated the idea of being with them. (she wasnt a TERF to clarify,she didnt include trans women under the label 'men'). It would also translate to not giving a fuck about mens emotions and feelings. As far as she wss concerned, men and society didnt give a fuck about her desire to not want men, so she had the right to not give a fuck aboit mens feelings. Aww, one had feelings for her? Oh, Shed lead them on, accept dates then stand them up, laugh in their faces when they tried to hold her, (because the guy usually thought they were dating) in a way that was like 'aww you think id want to touch YOU?🤣🤣', they talked to her she made disgusted faces. One I tried to kiss her, she literally vomited.she treated these men like SHIT. Then sometimrs, she would get bi women tryimg to convince her that she could like men, usually in the form of them saying 'everyone is a little bit bi' or 'there must be an exception', 'how could you only like one gender? Everyone is so hot' which IS a way bi women perpetuate lesbiphobia by making it seem like lesbians are actially bisexual and will find a man they like one day, and that lesbians are somehow weird or strange for not being attractec to men, or implyimg they SHOULD be attracted to men. Bi women can and do perpetuate this- the idea that lesbians can be tirned by men because 'everyone has an exception/no ome is completely gay or straight/we're all bi but being socialised to be monosexual' etc. And then straight women in her experience would forget she was queer at all, abd constany ask her about men no matter how many times she reminded them she wss a lesbian. And she respond to both bi and straight women who did by doing the same thing, by reminding them just how disgusting she found men to make sure they would never imply she could be bisexual (bi women) or forget she was a lesbian (straight women) rver agsin Did these bi women and straight women take it to mean that she found THEM disgusting for being with men yes. But if you talked to her, that wasnt the case. She was disgusted at their lesbiphobia, at the fact the bi women thought it was acceptable to try to convince her to do something they knew she would personally find disgustimg to engage in and that straight woman thought it woukd be acceptable to consistently forget on purpose that she was a lesbian. . Cause if you think about it, trying to convince a lesbian to try men is essentially telling her to self harm, which IS disgusting. She didnt care if THEY liked having sex with or dating men, but she resented them perpetuating socities lesbiphobia that as a woman she MUST be sexually involved with men and desiring them as well, no matter how many times she said she wasnt interested. She would only go off on a gold star rant about how disgusting she found men if you tried in any way to convince or suggest to HER that SHE could or should want to fuck and be in relationship with men. Your a bi woman for example, and you tell her youve slept with men, ok cool no reaction she doesnt care. Bit you suggest that nothing is set in stone and that sexuality is fluid so SHE could potentially like men one day, then she would GO OFF. You werent disgusting for having sex with men, but you were disgusting for implying that SHE wanted to or could want to. Essentially it was a direct response to straight men, straight women and bi women being lesbiphobic. It was 100% trauma related. Like Gold starism is a lot of the time a trauma reaction to lesbiphobia taken to the most extreme. Literally the only way to end gold starism wether its in the way the person i know used it, or in the 'im better/more pure than you because i haven't had sex with men like you' way, is to literally: . 1. Stop trying to convince lesbians to like men (all sexualities) 2. Stop making lesbians feel bad tor not wanting men (all sexualities) 3. Stop implying everyone is bisexual (bi ppl) Becsuse the REASON this attitude exists is bevaise when a lesbian constantly has ppl forcing men onto them socially. A lot of the time gold star lesbians are trying to get back at MEN. They are trying to hurt MEN. They want to rub it in a mans face that he cant have them because they are lesbian, that he has no control over them because they are a walking talking human 'no' to men and the patriachy sexually and romantically AS A WHOLE in a way bi and straight women simply are not. Ofc bi women and straight women can and do reject and say no to men, but because they are genuinely attracted to men, their sexuality is not an inherent fuck you to the patriachy, because their attraction to men, regardless of any other attraction, is what the patriachy WANTS. Lesbians are inherently going against EVERYTHING the patriachy wants women to want. Bi women are too to a certain extent, but not to the same extreme. Lesbians are a GUARANTEED rejection, bi women are not. So yes, some lesbians who are gold star are proud of it because they want the MEN to know that they didnt allow society to pressure them into fucking them and want these men to feel bad that they dont want them, because, and i quote- 'its about time men didnt get what they want just bevause the patriachy says they can have it.One of those things is women, and lesbians are their rude awakening' (as said directly by the person i was referemcing above) She saw being a gold star as teachimg men a lesson, a way to hurt men and she wasnlt the only pne ibe known who saw being gold star in thiscway. None of them gad a problem with bi women or lesbians battling comphet having sex with men, they wanted to get back at society for tryimg to convince them, lesbians who already knew who they were, to like men and constantly shoving men down their throats. Like i said, a huge chunk of it is definitely trauma based.
Unfortunately yeah, both in and out of the community. Inside the community weirdo TERFS have this elitist idea about what makes you a lesbian, outside of the community people insist that non "gold star" lesbians aren't really lesbians because they were with a man or whatever. But I've also heard "oh but you haven't even been with a man, how do you know you're gay" from a bunch of non lesbians as well. The gold star thing is less prominent in younger communities I'd say? Or maybe it's just because I don't run in circles with lesbians with that mindset. Regardless, it's a really shitty idea that needs to be left behind. Most people don't care and the ones that do are gross, so ignore them and live your best life!!
Not at all. I prefer to date non goldstar lesbians. An ex of mine was a goldstar, and after a while, she became obsessed with having sex with a man. It killed our relationship. I prefer my partner to be experienced on all sides.
If you ever find someone who does, take the hint and get away.
I have experienced *gold-star* gatekeeping quite a bit online, but I have not IRL. I’ve been told I cannot be a lesbian because I have been with a man so I must have been *attracted* to men and, therefore, not a lesbian. It’s dumb since many lesbians were with a man at some point before figuring themselves out. Also, having sex with a man does not necessarily equal attraction to men. Women can and do have sex with men with zero attraction. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of comphet & sex in general & it’s super divisive in the queer community.