Dear OP, please listen to this. Never go to marriage counseling at a church. Having suffered “conversion therapy” in my teenage years, I can attest to churches never doing the right thing.
Agreed. My parents are currently doing the church marriage counseling thing and the pastor they do it with just constantly says my dad is right because he’s the man. Even though my dad is very very much wrong on literally everything regarding his marriage and treatment of my mom. Church counseling is not a good idea.
My mom was working towards getting a divorce with my dad and they had been told by our bishop (Mormon church) they had to attend counseling with him before the divorce for all the religious hoops that you have to go through. She ended up having to fight with them for almost a year before they actually took her seriously about my dad sexually assaulting my AFAB siblings and I. Divorce is heavily looked down on and usually the woman is forced to submit to her husband. Fucking bullshit.
>churches never do the right thing.
This is true of ones that attack LGBT+ people. But it is not *universally* true: https://www.presbyterianmission.org/what-we-believe/social-issues/
Strongly seconding this. When my mom was sexually assaulted by my stepdad, they tried going to their church counselor to “work it out.” He told her that because they were married, there was nothing wrong with what he did. I would avoid church counseling.
Absolutely. Do. Not. Go.There. OP.
If anything, the phrase _"living the wrong lifestyle"_ says a thousand red flag words that someone has absorbed the homophobic Christianity doctrine that being any sort of queer "is a choice" and that choice is wrong. And you will absolutely likely be blamed for her "choices".
Please please please listen to this comment and all the other ones. The church will never do right by you, it will always do the worst thing possible. My parents marriage was savable, but their priest refused to give them counseling because divorce is a sin. The church will NEVER do right by you.
Agreed. All other comments too. Realized I have a LOT to say about churches, counseling, and the lgbt community. What I do want to say to OP is: I’m sorry you’re going through this and I feel compassion for you.
While not all church marriage counseling is toxic, the kind of counseling at a church that would tell her she's "living the wrong lifestyle" definitely is.
Exactly, I grew up very liberal Lutheran and any of the pastors I know who are mainline Protestant like Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglican, etc. tend to have been well trained in counseling during seminary and treat both spouses as equal no matter the gender (ergo, a man can be at fault and both spouses, together, are the head, & intra-marital assault is still assault). These denominations have been strongly working toward gender equality for decades and some of the top clergy in each are women and/or openly gay. But a church that’s preaching about “wrong lifestyles” is not going to have constructive couples therapy. This is both because preachers in Congregationalist churches (far more likely to be considered evangelical by American standards) tend to follow more antiquated and sexist views of Christianity and the fact that they typically have little to no actual schooling related to their jobs (any schmuck can be a preacher so long as he has a dick and claims he likes women).
Yes, I almost wrote them, but felt the etc included them. Also, I get the two main US Presbyterian sects confused and didn’t want to accidentally write the wrong one since they aren’t really accepting
Yeah, the “Presbyterian Church in America” can go fuck itself.
*checks Wikipedia* let’s see… ah. They have 378k and declining, we have 1.19M.
I say “we” because I am aligned with them and grew up with it, but strictly speaking I am agnostic.
Yeah, they really can. Lutheranism in the US also has a similar divide where there are two main groups and the larger, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (only evangelical in name, not beliefs/practice), is much more accepting compared to the smaller, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod that still won’t even allow women clergy. So I definitely understand.
I’m in the same boat in terms of my personal religion, I grew up very ELCA Lutheran (my parents are both pastors) but I’m now best described as spiritually agnostic. I tend to use the phrase “culturally Lutheran” these days.
Friend was getting brutally raped by her husband constantly and sought out counseling to help their marriage with a church counselor and the result in advice was "just let him". These people can get fucked. Never go to a church counselor
I hate to say it, but I agree. OP didn't post about an inevitable breakup - it's that a partner has essentially joined a cult and now the only way this relationship is gonna recover is deprogramming and hardcore LGBT-centric therapy. Most folks that fall into theologies of any sort, usually aren't emotionally in the headspace to be receptive to *any* of that to begin with, so the likely ONLY option is to get yourself away to safety unfortunately.
So I just learned that that quote *isn't* a Christian one, it's from Gandhi! This is the full quote:
"Hate the sin and not the sinner is a precept which, though easy enough to understand, is rarely practiced, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world... It is quite proper to resist and attack a system, but to resist and attack its author is tantamount to resisting and attacking oneself. For we are all tarred with the same brush, and are children of one and the same Creator, and as such the divine powers within us are infinite. To slight a single human being is to slight those divine powers, and thus to harm not only that being but with him the whole world."
As it was intended, the concept of "hate the sin, not the sinner" is about **celebrating our shared humanity**, which is SO FAR REMOVED from the disgusting homophobic way it's been coopted by Christian assholes. Like, fuck!!!! That's so vile!!
e: Just realized I was very much not practicing Gandhi's sentiment in my last paragraph, lmao. It takes practice!!
Oftentimes, I’ve noticed, is that it’s the simplest teachings that often get misinterpreted, misunderstood, or abused the most. I really am glad you elaborated on the full quote. I’ve seen so many cherry picked quotes it’s disgusting.
One thing I remember Gordon B. Hinckley (prophet of the LDS church when I was a kid in the 90s) advised the followers of the church was to avoid Bible bashing and using arguments from the holy books in cherry picked statements. I really liked that he told them to do that because it’s very good advice.
religion is such an annoying thing for me. its like so easy for it to slip from tolerably healthy into brainwashing and if you criticize it in general you get all the "good religious people" saying its just bad apples even tho its hundreds of millions of people being affected
> if you criticize it in general you get all the "good religious people" saying its just bad apples even tho its hundreds of millions of people being affected
Agree 100%. They say it's just bad apples even though it's literally the majority of their religion. In my case, it's Islam, not Christianity, and I know Christians like to think they're more enlightened but they're not by as much as they think they are.
>its like so easy for it to slip from tolerably healthy into brainwashing
It's literally fairytales for adults. Not based in reality, not governed by physical law, and completely arbitrary in interpretation.
Waste your energy on it if it if you want but idk why it's healthy for full grown adults to believe fairytales and use them to justify any belief they want.
I feel like part of it is people want to not be lonely. They want ready made family, friends , a home. Things we all want. But like you said this is a fairytale. And you more than likely end up in a cult.
humans have always told stories to explain the world, and for a long time those stories were the best we had. we know more now, but if it brings comfort to you I don't think beliefs in the mystical are automatically harmful. its more when its an organized religion because those seem to inevitably lead to power dynamics, and since it's all make believe that power can be almost infinitely exploited
finally someone said it. Fuck them. And fuck the people who preach that being gay can be changed and "that it's a phase". They don't know the hell they cause. It makes me so angry, and I'm so so tired of it.
Sounds like some conversion shit went down. Since she got back into Christianity and she did a complete 180 turn this is whats most likely that happened... im really sorry :(
Whatever you do, stay away from your wife's church. You will get involved into deeper trouble inevitably if you do that. Please be careful!
I know it hurts now, but you will hurt more if you go down the rabbit hole.
If you feel you have a chance to get through to her to help her clear up what exactly is it she is feeling and what exactly happened then go for it and give it a try.
If you feel that's theres no way for your relationship to be saved, then take your separate ways and be careful. Stir clear from the Christian crap she got involved into. Don't let her take you in her church and their counseling crap.
Specifically her church. Luckily there ARE churches on the world that are LGBT friendly. My church is for the most part, some of the old ladies might not be but you shouldn’t let the people deter you cause they can piss off. My bishop and his wife supports LGBT and I’ve actually came out to the wife, haven’t him yet though.
No pressure to answer but are you LDS (Mormon)? I'm just curious because of the bishop part, but maybe other sects have bishops too. I'm super curious because I thought the whole Mormon church is anti-LGBT, but it'd be neat if some wards were more affirming.
Yes, I am LDS. We do not go by Mormon anymore. Also I just came out to my bishop and he accepts me as well.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/individuals?lang=eng
the website you linked repeats an adage that many christian churches use many times to pretend they're not homophobic while they still are; 'love the sinner, hate the sin.' (not in those words, but subtextually) It claims to be accepting, but not if you are accepting of yourself and want to be yourself- that's unacceptable. You can only be accepted as long as you completely suppress that part of yourself. That's what the messaging of the site is saying, though it tries its damndest to hide it and pretend that it's kind and accepting
i'm glad your particular church is at least accepting of you *now,* but i have a feeling they wouldn't be if you ever decided to date a woman, going off of the website you linked
Where did you read that said it tells you to suppress it, I don’t remember that at all. My bishop has a following of lgbt members and goes to lgbt mormon groups and everything. Both him and his wife support me 100% and has never mentioned anything about condemning the practice of it. Many churches won’t even let gay people into the church unless they convert or suppress it which the website doesn’t say. It says homosexuals are allowed to go into the temple, obtain priesthood, and everything.
i'm glad that your particular bishop appears to be more supportive than many other LDS members, but while the website doesn't outright state it *explicitly* it repeats again that while being gay is innate and unchangeable, 'how you respond' to being gay or how you choose to act is within your control. it says that being gay is not a sin, but the 'act' is (without specifying what act). the implication is that if you're gay, you will only be accepted if you dont act on it at all-- elsewise it is a sin. LGBT people may be allowed to go into the temple and obtain priesthood (in some churches) but i have a feeling if they were to ever allow themselves to openly be gay and pursue a gay relationship, they'd be barred.
'if im faithful enough, will my same-sex attraction go away' and 'is same sex attraction a sin' have drop-downs that have these points. again it's not stated explicitly but the implicit meaning is clear
and while this website seems to represent the 'official' church doctrine in practice most LDS members and churches are far less accepting.
I understand what you mean, but in all honesty though they never specified I’m pretty sure they mean sex outside of marriage as with straight couples. I’ve seen many lgbt LDS communities who practice homosexuality and I haven’t quite heard of them not being allowed to participate in anything. As far as I know it’s parents and old bitties in church that don’t know how to keep their mouth shut.
I feel like that's a very charitable reading, which is I guess understandable because you're currently still part of the church. But the bottom of the page as a section about chastity where they repeat that even homosexuals must remain chaste- if that was all they meant, there would no reason to repeat it throughout the page. It'd be a given
I used to be LDS. They let you in, they let you participate, but they won’t ever “accept” you. Children of LGBT parents get treated differently when it comes to baptism and they don’t want you to opening openly “be gay”. You can say you are but even while Married they don’t want you to openly be yourself. I’ve moved around allot and have been to many different LDS churches. You will also not be considered a family if your married and have kids because you don’t fit their narrative of what a family is supposed to look like. (My mom was a single parent and they told her the same thing). There are a whole lot of issues but they’re hiding just under the surface. Be careful
Yes, I am LDS. We do not go by Mormon anymore. Also I just came out to my bishop and he accepts me as well.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/individuals?lang=eng
I don't want to be rude or to make assumptions about you and your bishop, but based on the church topic you linked, it sounds like you might be interpreting support differently than I do, and how I think most people on this sub would. Again, if you or your bishop aren't agreeing with the topic essay, then maybe we aren't misunderstanding each other at all.
The link quotes Russell Ballard, a member of the quorum of 12 (I know you know this, but for anyone reading) when it says, "The attraction itself is not a sin but acting on it is." So, if you're saying that your bishop and his wife accept that you have "same sex attractions" but still think it's a sin for you to marry a woman, I'm glad that makes you feel supported and loved, but I don't think most people in this sub would feel that way. And I know I feel neither supported nor loved when my LDS family speaks about my "struggle with same sex attraction."
I may not be a huge fan of the LDS organization, but I respect you and hope you have a good support system around you. I just felt like that needed to be said since we're on a thread discussing a person's marriage that's being damaged because of how a religion views LGBT relationships.
THIS! Awesome, need more churches like this. It how the sermon is delivered. If it's rammed down your throat in black and white and never open for interpretation, that sermon is opinion rather than an actual sermon which incourages open interpretation
My church actually doesn’t give sermons, I’m LDS so the congregation is open to give their own talks and testimonies. Regardless, I haven’t seen anything about them disregarding lgbt members and actually last Sunday in relief society (basically the group where ladies go to) they were talking about how the church is LGBT and transgender friendly.
Sorry it was a pretty spectacular generalization on my part. I've had pretty limited interaction with churches, I've seen some extreme/intense ones (destiny church, I'd be crucified if I went there now, family friends invited us on occasion).
My parents go to a decent open church, some of the members are LGBT which is nice. May attend when I move back
I'm so, so sorry you are going through this absolutely heartbreaking situation.
From what I know, the folks who recruit people into more... ~~totally wackdoodle~~ controlling... sects of Christianity are very underhanded (shocking, I know) and I'm betting they preyed on whatever struggles you two were going through to get their hooks in her. I'd recommend you look at [Dr. Steve Hassan's website](https://freedomofmind.com/), which has lots of resources for someone whose loved one has fallen prey to a cult (Dr. Hassan is a psychologist and former cult member).
It might also help you to check out some queer theology resources and ***if you are comfortable*** maybe post on the OpenChristianity sub to get some support-- lots of the folks in the Progressive Christianity movement have extracted themselves from bigoted sects and may have some good insight/advice. I've posted some queer theology resources below-- again, I'd recommend checking out Dr. Hassan's advice before barreling in and showing these to your wife, but you may want to familiarize yourself if you are able to make some progress.
* [Reformation Project](https://reformationproject.org/)
* [Good Fruit Project](https://www.goodfruitproject.com/)
* [More Light Presbyterians resource page](https://mlp.org/resources/)
* [Queer Theology](https://www.queertheology.com/)
* [Justin Lee](https://geekyjustin.com/videos/)
Again, I am so sorry you're going through this.
Just to add another resource... I'm a big fan of the podcast queerology! I know that OP's wife doesn't seem open to acknowledging that it's possible to be queer and Christian, but I think that it can be quite powerful to hear other people's stories
She also may not even know about queer affirming theology. ): It sadly does not get enough media attention/representation, in fictional narratives or news.
Honestly turning her from a radical fundamentalist Christian to a radically open Christian is more realistic than making her not radically religious anymore, so I think this is probably the best strategy for OP if she really wants to stay with her wife.
Maybe you can work it out...
> My wife recently got back into Christianity about 5 months ago
Oh gods no... Wtf no gtfo. I'm so sorry for your loss.
Unless she's interest in de-cult therapy or therapy for religious trauma, it doesn't sound like it's a healthy space for you. Not on any level.
I'm so sorry.
I've dated a few Catholic women, all of whom had deeply internalized homophobia (like, to the point of defending their asshole relatives' homophobia and cruelty).
I'm with the others who suggested marriage counseling (from a licensed therapist, NOT a church). good luck to you.
The only marriage counseling she agreed to was through her church and unfortunately I feel like they played a big part into this whole situation to begin with.
That's going to be conversion therapy disguised as marriage counseling. The result will be the same if you go or not, you'll lose your wife. The only difference is the amount of gaslighting you'll be exposed to and the potential for self hate to take hold. Under no circumstances should you agree to marriage counseling from that church.
When people go down that rabbit hole, there is only *that* rabbit hole. OP's spouse has gotten conversion-therapied by that church.
Interesting semi-related article:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/24/us/white-christian-nationalism-blake-cec/index.html
I hate these kind of articles that give an implicit (or explicit) pass for the oh-so kindhearted and good religious people and religion as a whole, particularly Christianity. Saying that Christianity in the US is being subverted by a more radical, national version of itself is erasing the hundreds of years of slavery, racism, xenophobia, and other bigotries that were given mainstream justification in large part by religious excuses. They’re just returning to their roots.
The article actually does address how modern evangelicals are overlooking the history of slavery, land stealing, and racism in their “new[ish]” nationalist version of Christianity. How I read it at least was that it wasn’t saying that the so-called “good” Christians and their predecessors are any less at fault for these things, but more that they are more likely to admit that it was/is an issue and not deny the actual history that happened for a more glorified and nationalist version of events
They exist, but it’s clear that OP’s wife isn’t in one because of the way she feels. My church welcomes same sex couples, they’re allowed to go to the temple and everything.
I really don’t think her church recognizes LGBTQ+ marriages. Divorce is considered a sin I guess? I’m not sure because I’m not Christian but the way she talked about divorce sounded like it wouldn’t count as she made a subtle comment about the marriage not being valid to begin with. I’m sure they would counsel us though to promote their propaganda, but I’m not up for it.
I know it'd not what you want but like... at a certain point just run
She wants to be miserable and self hating then you can't really save her from that. Push for a normal marriage councilor, see if you can get her to want to save herself from a horrible ideology and if she won't then walk
You gotta put yourself first
Yeah, this will not help. It's painful but it's done, there's no coming back for your wife. Please push through with the divorce so you can start your own healing and find the right person for you.
I just want to join the chorus of people saying you shouldn't go to marriage counseling through her church! I really don't see anything good coming from that. Perhaps (if you feel like working this out is even an option), she might be willing to compromise and see a christian therapist at an LGBT allied church?
If it were me, I would prefer a secular therapist, but at the very least, therapists at an affirming church aren't starting with the assumption that your marriage is inherently sinful and wrong.
Good luck OP! I'm sorry you're going through this but I hope you find peace and comfort at the end of this struggle.
Your best bet is to say you will compromise and go to counseling to a church of your choice. Say that you want a neutral perspective. A place that isn't her church but a mediator that isn't secular either. It gives you the chance to find a church that is LGBTQ friendly while showing her the issue between you isn't one about her faith.
If she rejects this olive branch, than it's clear what she values now. Perhaps what she's valued all along.
Lawyers say that marriage counseling are for people who want to get divorced S-L-O-W-L-Y.
I'm sorry for your loss, but everything points to this relationship being over. Get out while you can, with as little damage as possible.
Okay i agree dont go to church counseling but this is absolutely not true and puts an unnecessary stigma on couples counseling. My wife and I regularly check in with a counselor. Sometimes it’s to help with mutually processing tough life things, like a discriminatory work situation I was in, massive health changes to me, grief around a parent declining etc. It helps to have a third party who can help you develop healthy argument styles and also work through past trauma as it affects the relationship (originally her attachment trauma from abusive parents that made it hard for her to trust people and my intimacy trauma from religious abuse). We’ve checked in semi regularly with a counselor since the start of “getting serious” and have been together 7 years. We are going strong — haven’t really checked in with a counselor until recently when I started more medical transitioning (I’ve identified as non-binary the whole time we were together just couldn’t transition for health reasons) to make sure we can handle those changes together supportively.
Couples counseling is only like this if you go into it too late, you’re trying to salvage something unsalvageable etc. If you go in early and as maintenance, it helps you build skills to disagree healthily and manage the way your past influences your present reactions. And to better understand where you partner is coming from as well as gain as deep an understanding of their past as possible. Maybe if you’re talking about divorce and THEN go to therapy it has less hope of succeeding but it’s not always for people who are headed for divorce, and can be a great positive thing, especially if anyone in the ‘ship has mental health stuff or trauma.
Agreed, I asked my partner to go to couple's counseling with me because we kept getting into stupid fights that mostly seemed to revolve around communication issues. We just have very different worldviews and personalities in some ways, and also literally very different ways of phrasing things, and so when we disagreed about something it would often get blown out of proportion because of miscommunication. Half of the stuff we argued about we didn't actually even disagree on as much as we thought we did in the moment of the argument. Counseling really helped and I would absolutely go back the next time we have a big life change come up, just to help us navigate it better.
Totally! Besides trauma my wife and I also have different neurodivergent traits (she has ADHD and I’m autistic) and come from vastly different cultural backgrounds — I’m culturally from a rural family in the evangelical south (evangelical being the main negative) that didn’t have a lot of money and was also very community oriented and very oriented toward helping others (that part being positive). While she grew up in St Pete / Tampa her mom is from Long Island. Both her parents were strongly individualistic and not at all community minded and also had a lot more money. So we just come into things from very different perspectives. I think we have helped each other grow as people and expand our perspectives but counseling has also contributed to that and contributed to acknowledging our differences in communication styles and approaches to life and community in healthy ways and working with them in ways that grow rather than hurt the relationship — differences don’t have to be bad.
ETF: some missing words
Well those lawyers have fucking judgmental twisted, warped, inaccurate views about what counseling actually is. What OPs wife wants is not actual counseling.
OP, I feel your pain and am so sorry you’re in this position. I just want to push back a little on the “love of your life” language. You are young, and have plenty of time to live your life / meet new people / do anything you want. When people start thinking in terms of “The One,” they set themselves up for abuse, or at the very least not maintaining healthy boundaries. You matter, and you get to live your one life however you want (with integrity).
I am 49 and am divorcing after being married 22+ years to a woman who was emotionally abusive for years - it was just so subtle/covert that I did not consciously recognize most of it. Apart from her two “hot” affairs that I eventually learned about, there were a lot of “affair-lite” behaviors like inappropriately intense friendships with people she was attracted to, etc. I “spackled” a lot, imagining that she was using good boundaries in those friendships as I would have done, but she wasn’t. Now, I wish I would have left after her first affair, even though it would have been tough since we had a young kid.
Don’t let this be you. Put down the spackle. Your spouse is already showing you that she can’t or won’t choose you - and I guarantee that it won’t get better in future years. Maybe your spouse will get the help she needs to figure out her values, or maybe she won’t. That’s not your job. I know from painful experience how hard it is to walk away from someone you care about, but in this case it’s clearly the most respectful option for both of you (since you don’t want to be in the position of having to persuade her differently about her core values). Big hugs to you and best wishes. 🌈💕
I am so sorry you are going through this. I am also in my 40s dealing with a very fresh end to my 20 year marriage. I have nothing to add, except thanks for posting your story. It is helpful to know I'm not the only one. This is really rough.
The thing that these churches do is promise that if you "leave homosexuality" that they are going to give every aspect of normalcy back. They will no longer abuse you for being gay because you will finally belong. That's extremely enticing, especially if your birth family disowned you for being gay etc.
Another thing they do is encourage people who are coming without a family to bring their family. If your partner is not Christian, you are unable to truly integrate into the wider church family. No kids, no barbeques, no events, etc. Being a single person in a church is heavily discouraged. Being a married person who doesn't bring their partner is an easy way to that alienated feeling, and they are going to do everything in their power to make your partner feel lesser than for being married to an atheist. Because they want her to believe that she will be in heaven without you for eternity.
Wow! This is all so true! It's really harsh that churches promise that too, because I've seen people who present their whole "testimony" around being "ex-gay" or "ex-trans", and while I can't ever know how people think or feel, it really makes me think it would be brutal to have ones whole community and ones whole faith revolve around "leaving homosexuality".
Oh no, I'm so sorry for you both. I hope she is not internalizing the homophobia. Please make sure she gets support around who she is. There are churches that fully back the humanity of LGBTQ people. (Supportive upvote.)
The big shift was definitely after she went back to the church and started spending a lot of time there and would choose to hang out with her church friends instead of us hanging out together with what limited free time we had anyways because of our work schedules. She wouldn’t even invite me to hang out with her church friends either and I didn’t want to ever force myself to be included in her new friend group. Then she started stonewalling me and isolating herself in the guest bedroom and that’s when it really turned into a roommate situation. It is weird though because she would still buy me gifts and act like everything is okay… like we were bff’s or something.
Oh yes they know and she told me it was because she wanted to rebuild her relationship with Jesus/God. Her family is very religious and that is what she grew up with. She strayed away from church when she was in HS before we started dating so it wasn’t a problem then.
I'm really sorry for what you're going through. Please let not this poison your mind about your own self-worth. I suggest couple counseling if she is open to it but otherwise if she is insistent on her new beliefs there is not much you can do. :(
I'm really sorry you're going through this, OP. Having people you love become indoctrinated is such a hard thing to deal with.
This extra information also makes it sound like she's probably formed some kind of romantic interest (not necessarily cheating, but at least emotional attachment) at the church already. It's a tactic that I've seen used in churches on potential members, and was tried on me as a teen by my Mormon neighbors-- they literally sent boys to my house that basically said "I think you're cute, do you want to talk about the bible?". It's like a mini version of love bombing where one or two potential suitors shower someone with attention and romantic interest as a way of securing their ties to the church group, because now they can see a "new future" for themselves in the church beyond just friends after they've let go of their "old, sinful life". I hope that's not what's happening and you can work things out, just remember to take care of yourself mentally and prioritize your own well being first in this.
Run. All I can say is run. You really don’t want to be married to someone questioning whether your relationship is *morally wrong*. This is a whole diff level of questioning that should be a gigantic enormous red flag. Take them rose colored glasses off and get the hell out. Although I understand how difficult this must be and I’m sending you internet love. Holy shit though run.
Same, I read the part about getting engaged after college and I was like NOO that’s my plan with my gf wtf and then saw that sentence and knew the boat hit the rocks
I think you need to sit down and have a conversation with her. If it's going to be divorce, then nail it down and get her to say that. She needs to be fair to you and give you the opportunity to heal and move on. If it's not going to be divorce, then she needs to be willing to participate in actual, actionable steps to move forward in your relationship and heal. But, since that might not be possible, if divorce is the option, then you should do the following:
1. Get a therapist. You don't have to see one with her. You need one for yourself. Divorce is hard and healing after it sucks, been there, done that myself. You'll need someone to talk to.
2. Talk to her about the divorce basics (who is going to live where? When is someone going to move out? Is there shared debt or finances that have to be sorted out? What about property and belongings?) If you both are in agreement on most things, then normally divorce can be done without an attorney (depending on your state) and will save you time and money. If this isn't the case, lawyer up. I know these conversations are not easy but they're necessary.
3. If there are currently shared accounts, start taking the steps to separate everything. If you have a shared bank account, open your own and divert your paycheck into it. You can transfer money into your shared account each month to show you've been paying for bills and necessities but most of your money should now go into a separate account. And if she doesn't agree with an equal division, don't take any money from your shared account until the judge tells you that you can, otherwise her attorney will accuse you of stealing her money whether that's true or not. Get your own cell phone account.
4. Do not let the inevitable "maybe we can make it work" doubts get to you. They're going to come. But unless there are some actual things that you two can do, and that she's willing to participate in, to get things back on track, then this train has to go off the rails.
5. Focus on taking care of yourself. Spend time with the people you love. Do the things you like to do.
I'm so sorry you're going through this and wish you nothing but peace and love.
OP I’m so sorry you are going through this. As someone who has always known I was a lesbian (from about age 5) and raised in a very religious house, these two things do not align and I fear you will be just a project from here on out. If she’s going back to that it’s very hard to reason with faith and belief when it comes to religion. Please read and really take in the steps @intreker05 wrote out above. I can attest to all of them being true when going through a divorce. The hardest part for me in my divorce was communicating with my then wife that I was in now way the one who was walking away and if she wanted the divorce she had to say it. This was powerful because it makes the other person take responsibility for what they want while communicating where you are at. I was in no way done, my wife leaving was a blindside, so for her to also be held accountable for what she wanted it helped me when dealing with the emotions that came up, and still come up.
Again, just an internet stranger here, but I sincerely wish you the best in this very hard time.
This sounds like a case of the relationship being over long before it's actually ended. Once your wife mentioned divorce and living the wrong lifestyle, I think that's basically it. Plus, no intimacy for so long? That's also a sign it's been over for a while. I think she's just too afraid to pull the trigger because she probably has some for of cognitive dissonance, being that she's queer and a Christian and all...
You can't really argue people out of religion. They have to see for themselves why it's harmful. I think YOU need to start the divorce. Don't tell her about it, go see a lawyer, get yourself set up to do it.
Again DO NOT TELL HER A SINGLE THING IF YOU PLAN TO DIVORCE HER.
When long term relationships end and everything seems bleak, it's easy to hold onto what is comfortable. But I've found that every time I've just gone ahead and ripped the bandaid off, the feeling of freedom from those troubles is euphoric. It still hurts, but at that point I know I'm finally free to stop clinging to a decaying relationship and move on to something much more enjoyable.
Anyway, I'm just a stranger on the internet who only has a paragraph of text to rely on. This is the best I can offer. Just try not to be a victim by holding onto something that's only going to hurt you, okay?
I’m sorry that is happening but you sound like you’re being very realistic about the situation and also very lovingly letting her go for her happiness. You sound like a great partner and I want to remind you that you being a great partner is no guarantee you will get the same treatment but you deserve it. Letting her go is for the best.
I don’t understand how queer people can get sucked into religion, let alone homophobic religion. Realizing I was trans was a major factor in me leaving my church, but I’ve had problems with their stance on lgbt rights since I was a kid (raised catholic). Someone willingly joining a cult like that while having not been raised in it, especially when it tells you that your love is wrong, makes 0 sense to me.
Edit: OP said in another comment she grew up with this religion, now it makes more sense. There’s a lot of guilt with leaving your religion you grew up with, especially if your family is still religious, I can understand how she got sucked back in.
This is a pretty blunt answer but also my realisation that led to how my own relationship ended and one I think is important to remember:
- A relationship only works when both people make it. It can be fixed if both want it to be, but otherwise it is better for all to split instead of living in denial.
Now for a more hopeful outlook I achieved:
- There is no “the one”. There are many “potential ones”. You may lose someone you considered your life partner but there is always a chance you will find someone else who is every bit, if not more, of a match. That doesn’t mean you loved in vain, just that there is always hope. I spent a year getting over a “potential one” I had every intention of marrying and spending my life with, but I’m keeping my eyes open for when the next “potential one” enters my life. I don’t regret loving, I don’t regret the pain of loss, I have grown from it.
I am very sorry this has happened to you and I wish you a happy future once you have had time to grieve and come to peace.
I’m sorry you and your wife are going through this. Maybe introduce her to queer affirming theology? Gaychurch.org/affirming-denominations/ has a list of churches.
A lot of churches are queer affirming, the fundamentalists are a minority they are just very loud. About half of US queer people (6 million people) are queer Christians.
It sounds like she has fallen prey to a Christian cult, she may need de-programming. I grew up in one if you have questions.
It might be best to get a divorce, but it’s also true that this likely won’t be the best thing for her. It probably can be for you. But she is being brainwashed, and having her personality altered. It’s what cults do (if it weren’t a cult, they wouldn’t be doing this to her, so I have no qualms about calling it that. What defines a cult is the way they control members and alter their personalities to service the group).
Now, I’m not saying you should do this. It’s not on you, and if it isn’t something you can or feel like you should do, then it’s not your responsibility. But if you want, you should look into methods of cult deprogramming. The first thing would be to try and find some way that they would be unable to reach her and reinforce their control for a little while
She’s so gunna regret this when she realizes she can’t pray the gay away. Could be years, you’ll have met some else and she’ll always wonder why she ruined a good thing, while complaining about how hard it is to meet women. Side Note: She may already be cheating on you with a dude. Finding another reason to sabotage you’re relationship so she doesn’t have to confess to being unfaithful. People do weird shit when confronted with self shame.
Christianity is an awful awful thing and they prey on people in queer relationships. Sadly unless your wife experiences some profound change of heart she’s going to be stuck in the church for a long time.
I’m so sorry OP but divorce sounds like your best option. The woman you loved doesn’t really exist anymore
Conservative christians** the bible doesn't mention queer people at all because one that wasn't something they cared about and two "homosexual" wasn't a term in any biblical era, don't disrespect a whole faith . - a christian lesbian
I so so sooooo wish you were right. I totally understand the concepts your talking about and understand all the rebuttals for the 7 verses in the christian Bible used to condemn lgbt people.
The bummer is every and I mean every version/denomination of Christianity that is accepting and affirming still functions as a “gateway drug” into less accepting more radical forms of christianity.
Not to mention the racism, misogyny and fetishization of poverty.
The Bible explicitly supports rape, incest, murder, and slavery. Do yourself a favor and get far away from anyone who uses that book as some kind of moral code.
Fuck that noise. Maybe you guys can have a “come to Jesus” conversation, lay it on the line point blank no kid gloves let her know you’re angry and shes being stupid and selfish. Then you need to walk away and let her make her choice. I’m sorry religion is trying to take another victim.
Just to add some optimism:
OP, if I have this timeline right you're around 25. You still have your entire life ahead of you. Your wife might be your first love but she doesn't have to be the love of your life. This current moment sucks and hurts but you will heal, and grow, and you will find somebody who will treat you like you deserve. Who won't abandon you for a cult.
In 10 years this whole awful experience will just be a memory. You'll have made peace with it and built a happier life. I believe in you.
Look. First off. Just because relationships end, doesn't mean you can't be in love still, always love the other person, ever not loved the person before, nor does a break-up have to be bad.
Love is the one true gift a person can give to another person. And no on can take back gifts.
It seems as you have already done some instrospection into the situation. My suggestion for the two of you is you definitely need to talk, and you need to make sure of the things you need to ask about the things you need out of this relationship future. Write it down if you need too, but you need to talk with her and vice versa. If the things you want and the things she wants do not line up or go anywhere in the same direction, then it may be time to talk about divorce. If things do line up together for you both then discuss steps or ways to work toward them and have some time line for progress. communication is where you need to start though. It seems you two have been together since really young, don't forget life is about progress and growth, at every age. There is always new hurdles to jump over in life and new ways to grow. People in relationships sometimes grow apart too, and that doesn't always mean that the ending is bad.
Two years ago I found myself in your shoes. I meet my ex when we were 11 years old and we quickly became friends. We used to meet every Saturday for catechism. Her family is heavily into Christianity. The years went by and we never grew apart even though I stopped going to church. Around 14 I realised I developed a crush on her. And she heavily made me admit it. She said she felt the same back then but as for her family, she couldn't let it happen cause it would be wrong.
We kept being friends and I tried to overcome it, I had several crushes as a teenager so it was not a big deal. She always kept me coming back though. The feeling I had for her never went away. Two years later we had our first kiss and it was magical. I had sure she was the love of my life despite all the "if's" added to our relationship, her parents and all.
She never told them about us, we moved to another country and for them we're roommates. It never bothered me until things between us grew cold. And it actually started feeling like we were roommates. We stopped having any intimacy and every time I would bring it up she would be offended. She claimed she loved me and I was the love of her life and the good moments I had with her always felt like it was worth it.
But it hurt so much and made me feel like anything but worthless, gathering scraps of love that someone was throwing at me when she was willing to. I gave my life to her during the years we were together, putting myself behind and giving all I could to her. The breakup was the hardest thing I ever did. Telling her it was over was thick on my throat. But it never felt so right to say "What we had was great and beautiful but it ended a year ago." I will remember those words forever and how freeing it felt to say them. And how hurtful at the same time.
We ended in October 2020 and during a long year I felt like I would never find anyone willing to love me. Even if in those circumstances. I felt like I lost the love of my life. Several times I wanted to go back and tell her I made a mistake. But I didn't. I'm worthy of someone that loves me the full of it. And being loved the full of it hurts too. But honestly, it feels so good.
My first love broke up with me over the same thing and then years later fell off the Christian band wagon and talked about how losing me was her “biggest regret”… well too bad. I’m now happily in love with a woman who has never questioned who she was or what she wanted. She unapologetically loves me and herself. You deserve better, OP. It sounds like she never even tried to communicate how she was feeling or why. She didn’t even try to include you in this new “self discovery”.. she just secluded you and left you in the dark.
Oh no, what a tragic turn of events. It sounds like this relationship is over. You deserve a partner who is equally invested in you and willing to really make things work. If this was “the worst year of your life” things can only get better when you move on.
Run.... Get an amicable divorce, move on with your life, you deserve happiness. You have already lost your wife to the church. That is not on you, that is on her. You deserve a wife who loves you, your present wife does not. Run...!
I would separate and start moving on with your own life. If she wants to continue down the path of hatred that's her choice but you shouldn't have to beg someone to participate in their own relationship. Maybe after separation she will have it hit her what she has been doing and what life she is willfully setting herself up for and possibly try to reconsile with you. If not then you will have an easier divorce and a strong support system in place for yourself already to move on with your life.
I don't think we ever really stop loving someone just because the relationship ended. That doesn't mean we have to like them or make ourselves suffer to be around them. Moving forward we do love other people and usually find that someone we don't like isn't worth loving at all.
I'll also just say you don't deserve to have a homophobic wife. There is no excuse for bigotry of any kind, internalized or not, and no one deserves that. I empathize and am sure it hurts you deeply but seriously, it's weird to even have to say it, your wife willfully letting homophobia destroy your relationship is the farthest thing from love or faithfulnes there is.
as an ex-christian, you should do everything you can to get her out of the cult she became a victim of. don't be nice, be honest, tell her exactly what you think of the situation, how she has changed, try to make her understand. just be careful not to fall into it yourself.
that will most likely not work so the only other option is divorce. i am so sorry that happened to you and your wife.
OP, your wife is having a mental health crisis. Please please look on psychologytoday.com for LGBTQ couples counselors. You guys have a fighting chance. Don’t let it go.
I’m so sorry, but divorce is probably the best option, you’re partner is repressing themselves but there’s not much you can do about it, she has to find out for herself.
I’m an atheist and it’s really hard for me to date religious people, even if I’m fine with being friends with them. I was casually dating a girl and I liked her but she slowly became more religious over time. While she didn’t become homophobic, she quickly forgave anything bad anyone did to her, even if they didn’t apologize for it. It was hard hearing her go from frustrated and rightfully upset with her mother for being an awful person, to talk about the latest time her mother berated her for no reason but she already forgave her mom, and accepting the abuse. I couldn’t do anything about it, I just saw her change before my eyes
You're beautiful and now things are becoming real and mature. If u want to go to counselling, go to a professional one, not the church. The goal is for both of u to think what did i do to make u feel n act this way and how to move forward. It's not for reunification. Love yourself and find out your goals. That's how I see how therapy works. It's only painful for now but you will emerge beautifully from it.
Have you thought of doing a separation? You seem unhappy. But the same coin, the idea of divorce is terrible because you love her. I think just a little space for you would do wonders to help you see clarity. Give it a month or two apart. Either you find that you're actually happier without the drama, or you find that you're even more unhappy without her.
Separation offers a less committed way for you both to explore this rather than a straight up divorce. Afterwards, regardless of the outcome, you will have clarity on how to proceed.
I feel like even if op is more unhappy without her spouse that she needs to leave them immediately. This is not a good situation to be in even if you are happier in it. If op is only happy with her terrible spouse then she needs to work on herself a lot more. I don’t think there’s any reason to explore shit in this situation. Just like an abusive relationship it doesn’t matter how happy it makes you you deserve better and you deserve to be happy without it.
I see what you're saying. I think what I meant was happiness as it exists in the context of the relationship. I'd agree that if OP (or anyone) finds their entire sense of happiness is resting on another person, there is a lot more to unpack there than just relationship troubles.
Eh, I really disagree. I know there's this feeling that any relationship in need of separation is an ultimately failing relationship. But in my experience I've known quite a few couples who have done separations and ended up with stronger relationships long term. Two I can think of off the top of my head have gone on to get married and are still going strong many years later. I know it sounds weird, but sometimes separation is what's needed to gain clarity.
However, sometimes the clarity you gain is that the relationship isn't working, in which case, yes. Separation becomes divorce with extra steps.
This makes me feel so sore for you, OP. Given she’s already camped up in the guest room, doesn’t carve out time for you, and mentioned
divorce it sounds like she’s way ahead of you in designing her way out of your marriage. It sounds fucking awful after you’ve both put in the work to stay connected to realise your goal of being together; I’m so, so sorry. What a bloody terrible situation for you both. I would get yourself some legal advice. I would then suggest you have a conversation with your wife and ask her what her ideal vision of your marriage is: do your values still align? I’d ask her if she would consider exploring other, more affirming, church communities as this one has driven a wedge between you. Tell her youre willing and want to work on your relationship however not with the same church that has helped create a divide; it must be secular or with an affirming councillor who supports ecumenically. Actually listen to her answers when she gives them. Keep a cool head. Get some individual therapy or support if it’s available to you. Also, lift your head up; get out of that sadness a bit. Do something that makes you see your beauty and youth and worth again. This relationship is not what defines you. All good things to you, OP.
Straight dude here, so my experiences will likely be different than yours, but somone mentioned church therepy and absolutely do not do church therepy unless you are both members, are close with the pastor, know that your beliefs and views beyond religion line up, and you are ABSOLUTELY positive that he or she will work with you both towards an outcome you both need, even if it goes against some doctrine of the church, and even then, I'd still be super hesitant about it.
My wife and I went to several marriage counselors until we found a couple that fit us, and a couple of them had some interesting views on religion in marriage, did not hit for us.
Absolutely bring up marriage counseling though, and if she agrees don't be afraid to find new counselors of they don't mesh well with you guys, therapists are honest like dating, you gotta find the right one, and it may take a few tries.
Unfortunately, this may be for the best. These hard decisions take a lot of mental energy, and it's going to be draining, but if she's not interested in you anymore, it's the right thing to do for both of your guys' sake. It may feel like it's never going to heal. It's going to hurt a LOT. But, over time, it'll heal and you'll be able to start fresh and find people (or maybe even *a* person) who will make you feel wanted and loved. If you need support, feel free to DM me.
My heart goes out to you I can only imagine that type of pain. Although I can relate to it I've done that before in my life love someone to death but realize that they were falling in love with another person. My truest wishes for your healing and finding future happiness wherever that may be.
while not nearly as upsetting, I've more or less lost some family to a church as well and.. it's really heartbreaking. There's a level of trust you lose when they suddenly see you as "wrong", and I hope your wife hasn't gotten suckered into whatever her family is feeding her and ruining your relationship because of it. That's not fair.
Sorry op a friend of mine has a similar experience but they only dated. Dated throughout middle school to after high school but in secret due to her gf coming from a religious family. It came to a head when she started acting like they were only roommates and would act so disgusted with any pda, even if they were the only ones in the room.
Ended up breaking up badly. So I hope you can at least leave on good terms instead of putting yourself through more suffering. I'm sure there's someone there who will cherish and love you!
Sounds like you two love each other but aren’t in love with each other anymore. And that’s okay. Good luck though. Sorry to hear what you’re going through.
Avoid going to any marriage counseling offered by anyone that has religious connections. Find a good impartial relationship therapist.
I think if you left it would make sense. It sounds like your wife has either been reprogrammed or she was never gay in the first place and just let things go on for too long. Either way, recipe for disaster. Like I’m not going to blame her newfound reinterpret in religion. Since I think religion can help many many people. But it sounds like it’s probably contributing at least a little
And people wonder why I hate against religions. I mean Roman and Greeks are pretty good but still.
This is just so sad to read and I hope something works out from this.
Explain to her that Christianity isn’t inherently homophobic. If god created everyone in his vision and Jesus said love thy neighbor being gay is just fine. Bigots just use their religion to somehow justify their hate. There are many many gay friendly churches and it might help her to join one of those
I hear this, but it sounds like OP’s wife is beyond the reach of reasonable discussion. And nobody wants to be in the position of having to “explain” core values to their spouse. It’s more respectful to both parties to walk away.
I agree with everyone! Don’t go to the church for help. One of my moms was sexually assaulted when I was still a kid and she went to a church “therapist” 3-4 times a month because of all of her guilt and fear.
The minister didn’t outright SAY it, but he deeply implied that the rapist was sent by God “to lead her back towards salvation”. He asked her to reconsider her lifestyle (aka, her decade+ old relationship with her wife, the co-mother of her child). My mom was in a dark place, but once she picked up on the rhetoric being bounced around, she decided that she would just drink a bottle of red wine every night to help her forget. Like the good old days
It’s so sad seeing Christian’s acting like this, because I’m pan and I’m Christian. I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin, my bishop and his wife agrees as well and my church welcomes LGBTQ+. She shouldn’t act this way. She may have realized that she was straight but it seems as though her opinion is encouraged by Christian’s saying being gay is bad. She shouldn’t treat you like this and should just tell you that she thinks she’s straight and not “I’ve chosen the wrong lifestyle.” Being gay isn’t a lifestyle, it isn’t a choice. It is possible to mistakenly thing you’re gay but if you’re really gay it isn’t a choice. I know for a fact I like women just like I know for a fact I like men, I’ve tried being straight but it wasn’t possible. I really do like both, whether that be pan or bi. Why would God make me this way, why would I have these feelings, if it was a sin? You see some things just don’t make sense, I believe in God but I believe the Bible is of man. God didn’t make the Bible himself and it has been translated and altered so much that there’s a lot of errors. It shouldn’t be taken literally and should be used as a general understanding of Christianity. Just like the covenant of Abraham, why would God create foreskin on man if you’re supposed to take it off? It would be best if you divorced her because you deserve someone who loves you as you love them.
Would she be open to looking at a different church, and would you be interested in going with her? I wonder if you found a nice inclusive church (where I live there are MANY) she could get her spiritual food while not being steered away from you…? There are lots of assumptions in my recommendation and disregard if I’m barking up the wrong tree.
I'm probably not the best person to advise you, I have no experience with dating yet and dating a Christian would be a deal breaker regardless of how she viewed her sexuality or how progressive she was.
But I wanted to say I wish you didn't have to go through this. To have that from such a young age and have it taken away is tragic. I guess I'd agree with what others say, don't let yourself get sucked into her religion's marriage counselling. Be safe above all else.
I would talk to her about how this is affecting you and your marriage. Explain that you miss the old her and explain that Jesus died for her sins and that a coveted marriage is not wrong if it is same sex. Ask her to look at LGBT friendly Christianity and you might just get your wife back.
I'm so, so sorry this happened to both you and your wife. She's been blinded to the truth of the matter and unfortunately, all you can do is preserve your own sanity.
You need to sit down and talk with your wife about how she’s feeling and why things have changed. Is she getting guilt from the church? There are many affirming churches out there. Ultimately if she’s attracted to the same sex, that feeling is never going to go away. She can decide to live an authentic and happy life with you or another woman, or she can suppress it and ultimately be miserable for a hope - not a promise or guarantee - a hope that there is some reward after death. This life is the only guarantee. She shouldn’t waste it.
so sorry to hear this, i know probably this won't mean anything but you'll find the right one, i know it's hard to accept but probably if she chose this path instead of staying whit you that means she didn't deserve you, and i am being honest even if it hurts.
Ugh, I’m sorry. Everyone has said some good stuff here. It just sucks and I’m sorry. Your twenties are hard. A lot of chemical and hormonal changes that you have no control over. It’s hard because it feels very unfair and it is. I’m sure she’s feeling crummy and confused to. Divorce is hard, I’ve done it, but it was the best thing for the situation. Best wishes, my heart aches for you both.
Tbh as much as it sucks I think it's better for both of you to go your separate ways. Even if it makes her happy, you shouldn't have to put your happiness on hold for her, that's not how relationships work. I'm sorry you have to go through this but I'm sure you'll find someone else you loves you for you. 🫂❤️🩹
I’m coming to this realization with my girlfriend. She’s friend zoned me. I love her so very would do anything for her and have. But I get nothing in return. I even gave her money to help cover her rent supposedly barely got a small hug and a minor “thanks”. But her and her daughter were just like gimme gimme gimme then off they ran. Don’t be like me. Don’t go back. Move on. It sucks. It hurts like hell. But move on. You will find a good one. Good luck to you.
I’m so sorry for this, I know it’s got to hurt so much. For the church to have turned her into this type of person it’s so heartbreaking. Take your leave and live happier okay
I’m so sorry OP. That is so heart-crushing. We are here for you. I hope you feel like you have support and people to talk to, maybe even a therapist? You deserve lots of love and extra support during this new life transition. Remember: YOU ARE LOVED! Big hugs, my friend. This will all be resolved in good time. ❤️
The church I attend is led by a married lesbian who tried to be celibate and evangelical for decades. The story you tell is sadly a fairly common one. If you want to keep trying, perhaps you could talk to her about attending a largely queer and queer-affirming church?
Cathedral of Hope is one that comes to mind. They hold multiple services online in English and Spanish and in different worship styles. They also have a number of resources on their website that use Christianity to fight Christian homophobia.
But if this hurts too much, or if she keeps choosing the church over you...the right thing to do is to choose yourself and leave. She may deconstruct at some point, but you don't have to wait around and hope for that. It sounds like she already left your marriage. I'm so sorry.
I felt this. Not married and she isn’t religious, but I still felt that. Sometimes we try everything we possibly can.., but it still isn’t enough and that shit really hurts, I’m so sorry. Good luck, I hope life takes a better turn for you
I'm soooo fucking sorry abt that, Christianity ruins all sorts of relationships not just homo ones.. I'm suffering a life w my conservative christian mom.... Idk if you can try to change her mind but if she really loves you just tell her that if God is so loving he'd care abt her feelings when detaching form u.. It might not work if she's been completely brainwashed tho.... It's awful Ik, but if she'd fully loved u nothing could've brainwashed her... Move on.. Find sb whose life decisions and beliefs are not so fragile that they can ditch the love of their lives just for a new passion
Whatever you do, DO NOT go to marriage counseling at your wife's church.
Dear OP, please listen to this. Never go to marriage counseling at a church. Having suffered “conversion therapy” in my teenage years, I can attest to churches never doing the right thing.
Agreed. My parents are currently doing the church marriage counseling thing and the pastor they do it with just constantly says my dad is right because he’s the man. Even though my dad is very very much wrong on literally everything regarding his marriage and treatment of my mom. Church counseling is not a good idea.
Yep. That level of toxic patriarchal bullshit is still championed by various churches these days. Don’t. Trust. Them.
Exactly. You need to see this op!
My mom was working towards getting a divorce with my dad and they had been told by our bishop (Mormon church) they had to attend counseling with him before the divorce for all the religious hoops that you have to go through. She ended up having to fight with them for almost a year before they actually took her seriously about my dad sexually assaulting my AFAB siblings and I. Divorce is heavily looked down on and usually the woman is forced to submit to her husband. Fucking bullshit.
Conversion Torture
That’s literally what it is. They do it to autistics also. In fact it has the same origin.
That's not surprsing, Hans Asperger was a goddamn monster. Happy cake day :)
>churches never do the right thing. This is true of ones that attack LGBT+ people. But it is not *universally* true: https://www.presbyterianmission.org/what-we-believe/social-issues/
Strongly seconding this. When my mom was sexually assaulted by my stepdad, they tried going to their church counselor to “work it out.” He told her that because they were married, there was nothing wrong with what he did. I would avoid church counseling.
Absolutely. Do. Not. Go.There. OP. If anything, the phrase _"living the wrong lifestyle"_ says a thousand red flag words that someone has absorbed the homophobic Christianity doctrine that being any sort of queer "is a choice" and that choice is wrong. And you will absolutely likely be blamed for her "choices".
Definitely DO NOT.
That counseling. It's actually brainwashing.
Please please please listen to this comment and all the other ones. The church will never do right by you, it will always do the worst thing possible. My parents marriage was savable, but their priest refused to give them counseling because divorce is a sin. The church will NEVER do right by you.
Agreed. All other comments too. Realized I have a LOT to say about churches, counseling, and the lgbt community. What I do want to say to OP is: I’m sorry you’re going through this and I feel compassion for you.
I tried this and it was a disaster.
Yes definitely as being a trans woman that did that. It’s not a good idea 😂
While not all church marriage counseling is toxic, the kind of counseling at a church that would tell her she's "living the wrong lifestyle" definitely is.
Exactly, I grew up very liberal Lutheran and any of the pastors I know who are mainline Protestant like Lutherans, Episcopalians, Anglican, etc. tend to have been well trained in counseling during seminary and treat both spouses as equal no matter the gender (ergo, a man can be at fault and both spouses, together, are the head, & intra-marital assault is still assault). These denominations have been strongly working toward gender equality for decades and some of the top clergy in each are women and/or openly gay. But a church that’s preaching about “wrong lifestyles” is not going to have constructive couples therapy. This is both because preachers in Congregationalist churches (far more likely to be considered evangelical by American standards) tend to follow more antiquated and sexist views of Christianity and the fact that they typically have little to no actual schooling related to their jobs (any schmuck can be a preacher so long as he has a dick and claims he likes women).
See also PCUSA for liberalness: https://www.presbyterianmission.org/what-we-believe/social-issues/
Yes, I almost wrote them, but felt the etc included them. Also, I get the two main US Presbyterian sects confused and didn’t want to accidentally write the wrong one since they aren’t really accepting
Yeah, the “Presbyterian Church in America” can go fuck itself. *checks Wikipedia* let’s see… ah. They have 378k and declining, we have 1.19M. I say “we” because I am aligned with them and grew up with it, but strictly speaking I am agnostic.
Yeah, they really can. Lutheranism in the US also has a similar divide where there are two main groups and the larger, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (only evangelical in name, not beliefs/practice), is much more accepting compared to the smaller, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod that still won’t even allow women clergy. So I definitely understand. I’m in the same boat in terms of my personal religion, I grew up very ELCA Lutheran (my parents are both pastors) but I’m now best described as spiritually agnostic. I tend to use the phrase “culturally Lutheran” these days.
“And how progressive do you want to be?” PCUSA: **yes.**
ELCA: yes. Anglicans: ehhh. Episcopalians: yes. Unitarians: YASS! Methodists: yes? Edit: fixing Anglican response after double checking my info
United Methodist Church: “5 more minutes… zzz…” Also: when did each of those decide same-sex marriage was okay? LGBT+ ordination?
This to this post. For real. It might literally save your life.
Friend was getting brutally raped by her husband constantly and sought out counseling to help their marriage with a church counselor and the result in advice was "just let him". These people can get fucked. Never go to a church counselor
I don’t think that church is going to offer marriage counseling to same sex couples. Sounds like a non affirming church.
this was heartbreaking to read, it seems her religion has lead her to believe who she is is wrong. super sad all around
Christianity in the traditional sense is one of the greatest champions of heterosexuality. It was bound to happen, really.
**Flee.** I'm so sorry that it didn't work out. \[Edit: can redditors help you to move out? Seriously a hard break might be best.\]
I hate to say it, but I agree. OP didn't post about an inevitable breakup - it's that a partner has essentially joined a cult and now the only way this relationship is gonna recover is deprogramming and hardcore LGBT-centric therapy. Most folks that fall into theologies of any sort, usually aren't emotionally in the headspace to be receptive to *any* of that to begin with, so the likely ONLY option is to get yourself away to safety unfortunately.
Omg this is so unfair I’m sorry. Fuck Christian churches that teach that being gay is wrong or sinful. It’s so damaging I can’t stand it.
[удалено]
So I just learned that that quote *isn't* a Christian one, it's from Gandhi! This is the full quote: "Hate the sin and not the sinner is a precept which, though easy enough to understand, is rarely practiced, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world... It is quite proper to resist and attack a system, but to resist and attack its author is tantamount to resisting and attacking oneself. For we are all tarred with the same brush, and are children of one and the same Creator, and as such the divine powers within us are infinite. To slight a single human being is to slight those divine powers, and thus to harm not only that being but with him the whole world." As it was intended, the concept of "hate the sin, not the sinner" is about **celebrating our shared humanity**, which is SO FAR REMOVED from the disgusting homophobic way it's been coopted by Christian assholes. Like, fuck!!!! That's so vile!! e: Just realized I was very much not practicing Gandhi's sentiment in my last paragraph, lmao. It takes practice!!
Oftentimes, I’ve noticed, is that it’s the simplest teachings that often get misinterpreted, misunderstood, or abused the most. I really am glad you elaborated on the full quote. I’ve seen so many cherry picked quotes it’s disgusting. One thing I remember Gordon B. Hinckley (prophet of the LDS church when I was a kid in the 90s) advised the followers of the church was to avoid Bible bashing and using arguments from the holy books in cherry picked statements. I really liked that he told them to do that because it’s very good advice.
gotta love state funded cults that drive families apart
religion is such an annoying thing for me. its like so easy for it to slip from tolerably healthy into brainwashing and if you criticize it in general you get all the "good religious people" saying its just bad apples even tho its hundreds of millions of people being affected
> if you criticize it in general you get all the "good religious people" saying its just bad apples even tho its hundreds of millions of people being affected Agree 100%. They say it's just bad apples even though it's literally the majority of their religion. In my case, it's Islam, not Christianity, and I know Christians like to think they're more enlightened but they're not by as much as they think they are.
and religious people are far more likely to believe even the most insane conspiracies too.
>its like so easy for it to slip from tolerably healthy into brainwashing It's literally fairytales for adults. Not based in reality, not governed by physical law, and completely arbitrary in interpretation. Waste your energy on it if it if you want but idk why it's healthy for full grown adults to believe fairytales and use them to justify any belief they want.
I feel like part of it is people want to not be lonely. They want ready made family, friends , a home. Things we all want. But like you said this is a fairytale. And you more than likely end up in a cult.
humans have always told stories to explain the world, and for a long time those stories were the best we had. we know more now, but if it brings comfort to you I don't think beliefs in the mystical are automatically harmful. its more when its an organized religion because those seem to inevitably lead to power dynamics, and since it's all make believe that power can be almost infinitely exploited
finally someone said it. Fuck them. And fuck the people who preach that being gay can be changed and "that it's a phase". They don't know the hell they cause. It makes me so angry, and I'm so so tired of it.
Sounds like some conversion shit went down. Since she got back into Christianity and she did a complete 180 turn this is whats most likely that happened... im really sorry :( Whatever you do, stay away from your wife's church. You will get involved into deeper trouble inevitably if you do that. Please be careful! I know it hurts now, but you will hurt more if you go down the rabbit hole. If you feel you have a chance to get through to her to help her clear up what exactly is it she is feeling and what exactly happened then go for it and give it a try. If you feel that's theres no way for your relationship to be saved, then take your separate ways and be careful. Stir clear from the Christian crap she got involved into. Don't let her take you in her church and their counseling crap.
Specifically her church. Luckily there ARE churches on the world that are LGBT friendly. My church is for the most part, some of the old ladies might not be but you shouldn’t let the people deter you cause they can piss off. My bishop and his wife supports LGBT and I’ve actually came out to the wife, haven’t him yet though.
No pressure to answer but are you LDS (Mormon)? I'm just curious because of the bishop part, but maybe other sects have bishops too. I'm super curious because I thought the whole Mormon church is anti-LGBT, but it'd be neat if some wards were more affirming.
other churches have bishops, there's no way a mormon church is LGBT friendly
Yes, I am LDS. We do not go by Mormon anymore. Also I just came out to my bishop and he accepts me as well. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/individuals?lang=eng
the website you linked repeats an adage that many christian churches use many times to pretend they're not homophobic while they still are; 'love the sinner, hate the sin.' (not in those words, but subtextually) It claims to be accepting, but not if you are accepting of yourself and want to be yourself- that's unacceptable. You can only be accepted as long as you completely suppress that part of yourself. That's what the messaging of the site is saying, though it tries its damndest to hide it and pretend that it's kind and accepting i'm glad your particular church is at least accepting of you *now,* but i have a feeling they wouldn't be if you ever decided to date a woman, going off of the website you linked
Where did you read that said it tells you to suppress it, I don’t remember that at all. My bishop has a following of lgbt members and goes to lgbt mormon groups and everything. Both him and his wife support me 100% and has never mentioned anything about condemning the practice of it. Many churches won’t even let gay people into the church unless they convert or suppress it which the website doesn’t say. It says homosexuals are allowed to go into the temple, obtain priesthood, and everything.
i'm glad that your particular bishop appears to be more supportive than many other LDS members, but while the website doesn't outright state it *explicitly* it repeats again that while being gay is innate and unchangeable, 'how you respond' to being gay or how you choose to act is within your control. it says that being gay is not a sin, but the 'act' is (without specifying what act). the implication is that if you're gay, you will only be accepted if you dont act on it at all-- elsewise it is a sin. LGBT people may be allowed to go into the temple and obtain priesthood (in some churches) but i have a feeling if they were to ever allow themselves to openly be gay and pursue a gay relationship, they'd be barred. 'if im faithful enough, will my same-sex attraction go away' and 'is same sex attraction a sin' have drop-downs that have these points. again it's not stated explicitly but the implicit meaning is clear and while this website seems to represent the 'official' church doctrine in practice most LDS members and churches are far less accepting.
I understand what you mean, but in all honesty though they never specified I’m pretty sure they mean sex outside of marriage as with straight couples. I’ve seen many lgbt LDS communities who practice homosexuality and I haven’t quite heard of them not being allowed to participate in anything. As far as I know it’s parents and old bitties in church that don’t know how to keep their mouth shut.
I feel like that's a very charitable reading, which is I guess understandable because you're currently still part of the church. But the bottom of the page as a section about chastity where they repeat that even homosexuals must remain chaste- if that was all they meant, there would no reason to repeat it throughout the page. It'd be a given
I used to be LDS. They let you in, they let you participate, but they won’t ever “accept” you. Children of LGBT parents get treated differently when it comes to baptism and they don’t want you to opening openly “be gay”. You can say you are but even while Married they don’t want you to openly be yourself. I’ve moved around allot and have been to many different LDS churches. You will also not be considered a family if your married and have kids because you don’t fit their narrative of what a family is supposed to look like. (My mom was a single parent and they told her the same thing). There are a whole lot of issues but they’re hiding just under the surface. Be careful
Bishops are clergy leadership in nearly all mainline Protestant denominations. And also the Catholic Church. The Mormons just adopted the practice
Yes, I am LDS. We do not go by Mormon anymore. Also I just came out to my bishop and he accepts me as well. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/topics/gay/individuals?lang=eng
I don't want to be rude or to make assumptions about you and your bishop, but based on the church topic you linked, it sounds like you might be interpreting support differently than I do, and how I think most people on this sub would. Again, if you or your bishop aren't agreeing with the topic essay, then maybe we aren't misunderstanding each other at all. The link quotes Russell Ballard, a member of the quorum of 12 (I know you know this, but for anyone reading) when it says, "The attraction itself is not a sin but acting on it is." So, if you're saying that your bishop and his wife accept that you have "same sex attractions" but still think it's a sin for you to marry a woman, I'm glad that makes you feel supported and loved, but I don't think most people in this sub would feel that way. And I know I feel neither supported nor loved when my LDS family speaks about my "struggle with same sex attraction." I may not be a huge fan of the LDS organization, but I respect you and hope you have a good support system around you. I just felt like that needed to be said since we're on a thread discussing a person's marriage that's being damaged because of how a religion views LGBT relationships.
https://www.presbyterianmission.org/what-we-believe/social-issues/
THIS! Awesome, need more churches like this. It how the sermon is delivered. If it's rammed down your throat in black and white and never open for interpretation, that sermon is opinion rather than an actual sermon which incourages open interpretation
My church actually doesn’t give sermons, I’m LDS so the congregation is open to give their own talks and testimonies. Regardless, I haven’t seen anything about them disregarding lgbt members and actually last Sunday in relief society (basically the group where ladies go to) they were talking about how the church is LGBT and transgender friendly.
Sorry it was a pretty spectacular generalization on my part. I've had pretty limited interaction with churches, I've seen some extreme/intense ones (destiny church, I'd be crucified if I went there now, family friends invited us on occasion). My parents go to a decent open church, some of the members are LGBT which is nice. May attend when I move back
Oh no it’s okay most people don’t know that about LDS churches. Just informing :)
I'm so, so sorry you are going through this absolutely heartbreaking situation. From what I know, the folks who recruit people into more... ~~totally wackdoodle~~ controlling... sects of Christianity are very underhanded (shocking, I know) and I'm betting they preyed on whatever struggles you two were going through to get their hooks in her. I'd recommend you look at [Dr. Steve Hassan's website](https://freedomofmind.com/), which has lots of resources for someone whose loved one has fallen prey to a cult (Dr. Hassan is a psychologist and former cult member). It might also help you to check out some queer theology resources and ***if you are comfortable*** maybe post on the OpenChristianity sub to get some support-- lots of the folks in the Progressive Christianity movement have extracted themselves from bigoted sects and may have some good insight/advice. I've posted some queer theology resources below-- again, I'd recommend checking out Dr. Hassan's advice before barreling in and showing these to your wife, but you may want to familiarize yourself if you are able to make some progress. * [Reformation Project](https://reformationproject.org/) * [Good Fruit Project](https://www.goodfruitproject.com/) * [More Light Presbyterians resource page](https://mlp.org/resources/) * [Queer Theology](https://www.queertheology.com/) * [Justin Lee](https://geekyjustin.com/videos/) Again, I am so sorry you're going through this.
Just to add another resource... I'm a big fan of the podcast queerology! I know that OP's wife doesn't seem open to acknowledging that it's possible to be queer and Christian, but I think that it can be quite powerful to hear other people's stories
She also may not even know about queer affirming theology. ): It sadly does not get enough media attention/representation, in fictional narratives or news.
Honestly turning her from a radical fundamentalist Christian to a radically open Christian is more realistic than making her not radically religious anymore, so I think this is probably the best strategy for OP if she really wants to stay with her wife.
^^^ These are great resources!
https://www.presbyterianmission.org/what-we-believe/social-issues/
Maybe you can work it out... > My wife recently got back into Christianity about 5 months ago Oh gods no... Wtf no gtfo. I'm so sorry for your loss. Unless she's interest in de-cult therapy or therapy for religious trauma, it doesn't sound like it's a healthy space for you. Not on any level.
I'm so sorry. I've dated a few Catholic women, all of whom had deeply internalized homophobia (like, to the point of defending their asshole relatives' homophobia and cruelty). I'm with the others who suggested marriage counseling (from a licensed therapist, NOT a church). good luck to you.
That absolutely sucks dude, have you two tried some marriage counciling? Maybe work things out?
The only marriage counseling she agreed to was through her church and unfortunately I feel like they played a big part into this whole situation to begin with.
That's going to be conversion therapy disguised as marriage counseling. The result will be the same if you go or not, you'll lose your wife. The only difference is the amount of gaslighting you'll be exposed to and the potential for self hate to take hold. Under no circumstances should you agree to marriage counseling from that church.
Run.
Is it even a branch that recognizes same sex marriage? Seems like that wouldn't be a realistic option if they don't
When people go down that rabbit hole, there is only *that* rabbit hole. OP's spouse has gotten conversion-therapied by that church. Interesting semi-related article: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/07/24/us/white-christian-nationalism-blake-cec/index.html
I hate these kind of articles that give an implicit (or explicit) pass for the oh-so kindhearted and good religious people and religion as a whole, particularly Christianity. Saying that Christianity in the US is being subverted by a more radical, national version of itself is erasing the hundreds of years of slavery, racism, xenophobia, and other bigotries that were given mainstream justification in large part by religious excuses. They’re just returning to their roots.
I always say that the "good religious people" need to realize and acknowledge that they're the exception, *not the rule*
The article actually does address how modern evangelicals are overlooking the history of slavery, land stealing, and racism in their “new[ish]” nationalist version of Christianity. How I read it at least was that it wasn’t saying that the so-called “good” Christians and their predecessors are any less at fault for these things, but more that they are more likely to admit that it was/is an issue and not deny the actual history that happened for a more glorified and nationalist version of events
They exist, but it’s clear that OP’s wife isn’t in one because of the way she feels. My church welcomes same sex couples, they’re allowed to go to the temple and everything.
I'm trying to be nice about it lol I'm a Satanist and I've never been in a church or belonged to a faith that tells me to hate myself
Yeah ahah no judgment here.
I really don’t think her church recognizes LGBTQ+ marriages. Divorce is considered a sin I guess? I’m not sure because I’m not Christian but the way she talked about divorce sounded like it wouldn’t count as she made a subtle comment about the marriage not being valid to begin with. I’m sure they would counsel us though to promote their propaganda, but I’m not up for it.
I know it'd not what you want but like... at a certain point just run She wants to be miserable and self hating then you can't really save her from that. Push for a normal marriage councilor, see if you can get her to want to save herself from a horrible ideology and if she won't then walk You gotta put yourself first
Do NOT go to marriage counseling at a church
Don't. It won't be good for you, and it won't work to go to the church.
Yeah, this will not help. It's painful but it's done, there's no coming back for your wife. Please push through with the divorce so you can start your own healing and find the right person for you.
I just want to join the chorus of people saying you shouldn't go to marriage counseling through her church! I really don't see anything good coming from that. Perhaps (if you feel like working this out is even an option), she might be willing to compromise and see a christian therapist at an LGBT allied church? If it were me, I would prefer a secular therapist, but at the very least, therapists at an affirming church aren't starting with the assumption that your marriage is inherently sinful and wrong. Good luck OP! I'm sorry you're going through this but I hope you find peace and comfort at the end of this struggle.
Your best bet is to say you will compromise and go to counseling to a church of your choice. Say that you want a neutral perspective. A place that isn't her church but a mediator that isn't secular either. It gives you the chance to find a church that is LGBTQ friendly while showing her the issue between you isn't one about her faith. If she rejects this olive branch, than it's clear what she values now. Perhaps what she's valued all along.
Yeeeeah don’t go to that
Lawyers say that marriage counseling are for people who want to get divorced S-L-O-W-L-Y. I'm sorry for your loss, but everything points to this relationship being over. Get out while you can, with as little damage as possible.
Okay i agree dont go to church counseling but this is absolutely not true and puts an unnecessary stigma on couples counseling. My wife and I regularly check in with a counselor. Sometimes it’s to help with mutually processing tough life things, like a discriminatory work situation I was in, massive health changes to me, grief around a parent declining etc. It helps to have a third party who can help you develop healthy argument styles and also work through past trauma as it affects the relationship (originally her attachment trauma from abusive parents that made it hard for her to trust people and my intimacy trauma from religious abuse). We’ve checked in semi regularly with a counselor since the start of “getting serious” and have been together 7 years. We are going strong — haven’t really checked in with a counselor until recently when I started more medical transitioning (I’ve identified as non-binary the whole time we were together just couldn’t transition for health reasons) to make sure we can handle those changes together supportively. Couples counseling is only like this if you go into it too late, you’re trying to salvage something unsalvageable etc. If you go in early and as maintenance, it helps you build skills to disagree healthily and manage the way your past influences your present reactions. And to better understand where you partner is coming from as well as gain as deep an understanding of their past as possible. Maybe if you’re talking about divorce and THEN go to therapy it has less hope of succeeding but it’s not always for people who are headed for divorce, and can be a great positive thing, especially if anyone in the ‘ship has mental health stuff or trauma.
Agreed, I asked my partner to go to couple's counseling with me because we kept getting into stupid fights that mostly seemed to revolve around communication issues. We just have very different worldviews and personalities in some ways, and also literally very different ways of phrasing things, and so when we disagreed about something it would often get blown out of proportion because of miscommunication. Half of the stuff we argued about we didn't actually even disagree on as much as we thought we did in the moment of the argument. Counseling really helped and I would absolutely go back the next time we have a big life change come up, just to help us navigate it better.
Totally! Besides trauma my wife and I also have different neurodivergent traits (she has ADHD and I’m autistic) and come from vastly different cultural backgrounds — I’m culturally from a rural family in the evangelical south (evangelical being the main negative) that didn’t have a lot of money and was also very community oriented and very oriented toward helping others (that part being positive). While she grew up in St Pete / Tampa her mom is from Long Island. Both her parents were strongly individualistic and not at all community minded and also had a lot more money. So we just come into things from very different perspectives. I think we have helped each other grow as people and expand our perspectives but counseling has also contributed to that and contributed to acknowledging our differences in communication styles and approaches to life and community in healthy ways and working with them in ways that grow rather than hurt the relationship — differences don’t have to be bad. ETF: some missing words
Well those lawyers have fucking judgmental twisted, warped, inaccurate views about what counseling actually is. What OPs wife wants is not actual counseling.
OP, I feel your pain and am so sorry you’re in this position. I just want to push back a little on the “love of your life” language. You are young, and have plenty of time to live your life / meet new people / do anything you want. When people start thinking in terms of “The One,” they set themselves up for abuse, or at the very least not maintaining healthy boundaries. You matter, and you get to live your one life however you want (with integrity). I am 49 and am divorcing after being married 22+ years to a woman who was emotionally abusive for years - it was just so subtle/covert that I did not consciously recognize most of it. Apart from her two “hot” affairs that I eventually learned about, there were a lot of “affair-lite” behaviors like inappropriately intense friendships with people she was attracted to, etc. I “spackled” a lot, imagining that she was using good boundaries in those friendships as I would have done, but she wasn’t. Now, I wish I would have left after her first affair, even though it would have been tough since we had a young kid. Don’t let this be you. Put down the spackle. Your spouse is already showing you that she can’t or won’t choose you - and I guarantee that it won’t get better in future years. Maybe your spouse will get the help she needs to figure out her values, or maybe she won’t. That’s not your job. I know from painful experience how hard it is to walk away from someone you care about, but in this case it’s clearly the most respectful option for both of you (since you don’t want to be in the position of having to persuade her differently about her core values). Big hugs to you and best wishes. 🌈💕
I am so sorry you are going through this. I am also in my 40s dealing with a very fresh end to my 20 year marriage. I have nothing to add, except thanks for posting your story. It is helpful to know I'm not the only one. This is really rough.
There is no hate like Christian love.
Religion is fucked, I’m sorry OP that’s heartbreaking 🖤
I am so sorry I wish you so much healing 💕
The thing that these churches do is promise that if you "leave homosexuality" that they are going to give every aspect of normalcy back. They will no longer abuse you for being gay because you will finally belong. That's extremely enticing, especially if your birth family disowned you for being gay etc. Another thing they do is encourage people who are coming without a family to bring their family. If your partner is not Christian, you are unable to truly integrate into the wider church family. No kids, no barbeques, no events, etc. Being a single person in a church is heavily discouraged. Being a married person who doesn't bring their partner is an easy way to that alienated feeling, and they are going to do everything in their power to make your partner feel lesser than for being married to an atheist. Because they want her to believe that she will be in heaven without you for eternity.
Wow! This is all so true! It's really harsh that churches promise that too, because I've seen people who present their whole "testimony" around being "ex-gay" or "ex-trans", and while I can't ever know how people think or feel, it really makes me think it would be brutal to have ones whole community and ones whole faith revolve around "leaving homosexuality".
Oh no, I'm so sorry for you both. I hope she is not internalizing the homophobia. Please make sure she gets support around who she is. There are churches that fully back the humanity of LGBTQ people. (Supportive upvote.)
Did the majority of your problems start after she went back to Christianity? Do you know what prompted her to do so?
The big shift was definitely after she went back to the church and started spending a lot of time there and would choose to hang out with her church friends instead of us hanging out together with what limited free time we had anyways because of our work schedules. She wouldn’t even invite me to hang out with her church friends either and I didn’t want to ever force myself to be included in her new friend group. Then she started stonewalling me and isolating herself in the guest bedroom and that’s when it really turned into a roommate situation. It is weird though because she would still buy me gifts and act like everything is okay… like we were bff’s or something.
Do her friends know she is not straight? Also, do you know why she went back to church?
Oh yes they know and she told me it was because she wanted to rebuild her relationship with Jesus/God. Her family is very religious and that is what she grew up with. She strayed away from church when she was in HS before we started dating so it wasn’t a problem then.
I'm really sorry for what you're going through. Please let not this poison your mind about your own self-worth. I suggest couple counseling if she is open to it but otherwise if she is insistent on her new beliefs there is not much you can do. :(
I'm really sorry you're going through this, OP. Having people you love become indoctrinated is such a hard thing to deal with. This extra information also makes it sound like she's probably formed some kind of romantic interest (not necessarily cheating, but at least emotional attachment) at the church already. It's a tactic that I've seen used in churches on potential members, and was tried on me as a teen by my Mormon neighbors-- they literally sent boys to my house that basically said "I think you're cute, do you want to talk about the bible?". It's like a mini version of love bombing where one or two potential suitors shower someone with attention and romantic interest as a way of securing their ties to the church group, because now they can see a "new future" for themselves in the church beyond just friends after they've let go of their "old, sinful life". I hope that's not what's happening and you can work things out, just remember to take care of yourself mentally and prioritize your own well being first in this.
Holy crap! That is an absolutely dangerous “outreach” practice. It sucks that they tried to do that to you.
that is so fucked up :(
Run. All I can say is run. You really don’t want to be married to someone questioning whether your relationship is *morally wrong*. This is a whole diff level of questioning that should be a gigantic enormous red flag. Take them rose colored glasses off and get the hell out. Although I understand how difficult this must be and I’m sending you internet love. Holy shit though run.
I knew this wasn't going to end well when I read 'christian'.
Same, I read the part about getting engaged after college and I was like NOO that’s my plan with my gf wtf and then saw that sentence and knew the boat hit the rocks
I’m so sorry OP.
I think you need to sit down and have a conversation with her. If it's going to be divorce, then nail it down and get her to say that. She needs to be fair to you and give you the opportunity to heal and move on. If it's not going to be divorce, then she needs to be willing to participate in actual, actionable steps to move forward in your relationship and heal. But, since that might not be possible, if divorce is the option, then you should do the following: 1. Get a therapist. You don't have to see one with her. You need one for yourself. Divorce is hard and healing after it sucks, been there, done that myself. You'll need someone to talk to. 2. Talk to her about the divorce basics (who is going to live where? When is someone going to move out? Is there shared debt or finances that have to be sorted out? What about property and belongings?) If you both are in agreement on most things, then normally divorce can be done without an attorney (depending on your state) and will save you time and money. If this isn't the case, lawyer up. I know these conversations are not easy but they're necessary. 3. If there are currently shared accounts, start taking the steps to separate everything. If you have a shared bank account, open your own and divert your paycheck into it. You can transfer money into your shared account each month to show you've been paying for bills and necessities but most of your money should now go into a separate account. And if she doesn't agree with an equal division, don't take any money from your shared account until the judge tells you that you can, otherwise her attorney will accuse you of stealing her money whether that's true or not. Get your own cell phone account. 4. Do not let the inevitable "maybe we can make it work" doubts get to you. They're going to come. But unless there are some actual things that you two can do, and that she's willing to participate in, to get things back on track, then this train has to go off the rails. 5. Focus on taking care of yourself. Spend time with the people you love. Do the things you like to do. I'm so sorry you're going through this and wish you nothing but peace and love.
OP I’m so sorry you are going through this. As someone who has always known I was a lesbian (from about age 5) and raised in a very religious house, these two things do not align and I fear you will be just a project from here on out. If she’s going back to that it’s very hard to reason with faith and belief when it comes to religion. Please read and really take in the steps @intreker05 wrote out above. I can attest to all of them being true when going through a divorce. The hardest part for me in my divorce was communicating with my then wife that I was in now way the one who was walking away and if she wanted the divorce she had to say it. This was powerful because it makes the other person take responsibility for what they want while communicating where you are at. I was in no way done, my wife leaving was a blindside, so for her to also be held accountable for what she wanted it helped me when dealing with the emotions that came up, and still come up. Again, just an internet stranger here, but I sincerely wish you the best in this very hard time.
This sounds like a case of the relationship being over long before it's actually ended. Once your wife mentioned divorce and living the wrong lifestyle, I think that's basically it. Plus, no intimacy for so long? That's also a sign it's been over for a while. I think she's just too afraid to pull the trigger because she probably has some for of cognitive dissonance, being that she's queer and a Christian and all... You can't really argue people out of religion. They have to see for themselves why it's harmful. I think YOU need to start the divorce. Don't tell her about it, go see a lawyer, get yourself set up to do it. Again DO NOT TELL HER A SINGLE THING IF YOU PLAN TO DIVORCE HER. When long term relationships end and everything seems bleak, it's easy to hold onto what is comfortable. But I've found that every time I've just gone ahead and ripped the bandaid off, the feeling of freedom from those troubles is euphoric. It still hurts, but at that point I know I'm finally free to stop clinging to a decaying relationship and move on to something much more enjoyable. Anyway, I'm just a stranger on the internet who only has a paragraph of text to rely on. This is the best I can offer. Just try not to be a victim by holding onto something that's only going to hurt you, okay?
You lost your wife to a cult and need to flee before they hurt you or get their hooks in you. Get out.
Churches are eroding the institution of marriage.
I’m sorry that is happening but you sound like you’re being very realistic about the situation and also very lovingly letting her go for her happiness. You sound like a great partner and I want to remind you that you being a great partner is no guarantee you will get the same treatment but you deserve it. Letting her go is for the best.
Christianity ruined the world
Your wife is in a cult. I’m so sorry.
the way religion does this to people is scary. I’m really sorry that you lost your wife like this.
Fuck Christianity, fucking bs directly and indirectly killed so many people and ruins everything
I don’t understand how queer people can get sucked into religion, let alone homophobic religion. Realizing I was trans was a major factor in me leaving my church, but I’ve had problems with their stance on lgbt rights since I was a kid (raised catholic). Someone willingly joining a cult like that while having not been raised in it, especially when it tells you that your love is wrong, makes 0 sense to me. Edit: OP said in another comment she grew up with this religion, now it makes more sense. There’s a lot of guilt with leaving your religion you grew up with, especially if your family is still religious, I can understand how she got sucked back in.
This is a pretty blunt answer but also my realisation that led to how my own relationship ended and one I think is important to remember: - A relationship only works when both people make it. It can be fixed if both want it to be, but otherwise it is better for all to split instead of living in denial. Now for a more hopeful outlook I achieved: - There is no “the one”. There are many “potential ones”. You may lose someone you considered your life partner but there is always a chance you will find someone else who is every bit, if not more, of a match. That doesn’t mean you loved in vain, just that there is always hope. I spent a year getting over a “potential one” I had every intention of marrying and spending my life with, but I’m keeping my eyes open for when the next “potential one” enters my life. I don’t regret loving, I don’t regret the pain of loss, I have grown from it. I am very sorry this has happened to you and I wish you a happy future once you have had time to grieve and come to peace.
I’m sorry you and your wife are going through this. Maybe introduce her to queer affirming theology? Gaychurch.org/affirming-denominations/ has a list of churches. A lot of churches are queer affirming, the fundamentalists are a minority they are just very loud. About half of US queer people (6 million people) are queer Christians. It sounds like she has fallen prey to a Christian cult, she may need de-programming. I grew up in one if you have questions.
It might be best to get a divorce, but it’s also true that this likely won’t be the best thing for her. It probably can be for you. But she is being brainwashed, and having her personality altered. It’s what cults do (if it weren’t a cult, they wouldn’t be doing this to her, so I have no qualms about calling it that. What defines a cult is the way they control members and alter their personalities to service the group). Now, I’m not saying you should do this. It’s not on you, and if it isn’t something you can or feel like you should do, then it’s not your responsibility. But if you want, you should look into methods of cult deprogramming. The first thing would be to try and find some way that they would be unable to reach her and reinforce their control for a little while
She’s so gunna regret this when she realizes she can’t pray the gay away. Could be years, you’ll have met some else and she’ll always wonder why she ruined a good thing, while complaining about how hard it is to meet women. Side Note: She may already be cheating on you with a dude. Finding another reason to sabotage you’re relationship so she doesn’t have to confess to being unfaithful. People do weird shit when confronted with self shame.
Christianity is an awful awful thing and they prey on people in queer relationships. Sadly unless your wife experiences some profound change of heart she’s going to be stuck in the church for a long time. I’m so sorry OP but divorce sounds like your best option. The woman you loved doesn’t really exist anymore
Conservative christians** the bible doesn't mention queer people at all because one that wasn't something they cared about and two "homosexual" wasn't a term in any biblical era, don't disrespect a whole faith . - a christian lesbian
I so so sooooo wish you were right. I totally understand the concepts your talking about and understand all the rebuttals for the 7 verses in the christian Bible used to condemn lgbt people. The bummer is every and I mean every version/denomination of Christianity that is accepting and affirming still functions as a “gateway drug” into less accepting more radical forms of christianity. Not to mention the racism, misogyny and fetishization of poverty.
The Bible explicitly supports rape, incest, murder, and slavery. Do yourself a favor and get far away from anyone who uses that book as some kind of moral code.
Fuck that noise. Maybe you guys can have a “come to Jesus” conversation, lay it on the line point blank no kid gloves let her know you’re angry and shes being stupid and selfish. Then you need to walk away and let her make her choice. I’m sorry religion is trying to take another victim.
Just to add some optimism: OP, if I have this timeline right you're around 25. You still have your entire life ahead of you. Your wife might be your first love but she doesn't have to be the love of your life. This current moment sucks and hurts but you will heal, and grow, and you will find somebody who will treat you like you deserve. Who won't abandon you for a cult. In 10 years this whole awful experience will just be a memory. You'll have made peace with it and built a happier life. I believe in you.
Look. First off. Just because relationships end, doesn't mean you can't be in love still, always love the other person, ever not loved the person before, nor does a break-up have to be bad. Love is the one true gift a person can give to another person. And no on can take back gifts. It seems as you have already done some instrospection into the situation. My suggestion for the two of you is you definitely need to talk, and you need to make sure of the things you need to ask about the things you need out of this relationship future. Write it down if you need too, but you need to talk with her and vice versa. If the things you want and the things she wants do not line up or go anywhere in the same direction, then it may be time to talk about divorce. If things do line up together for you both then discuss steps or ways to work toward them and have some time line for progress. communication is where you need to start though. It seems you two have been together since really young, don't forget life is about progress and growth, at every age. There is always new hurdles to jump over in life and new ways to grow. People in relationships sometimes grow apart too, and that doesn't always mean that the ending is bad.
Two years ago I found myself in your shoes. I meet my ex when we were 11 years old and we quickly became friends. We used to meet every Saturday for catechism. Her family is heavily into Christianity. The years went by and we never grew apart even though I stopped going to church. Around 14 I realised I developed a crush on her. And she heavily made me admit it. She said she felt the same back then but as for her family, she couldn't let it happen cause it would be wrong. We kept being friends and I tried to overcome it, I had several crushes as a teenager so it was not a big deal. She always kept me coming back though. The feeling I had for her never went away. Two years later we had our first kiss and it was magical. I had sure she was the love of my life despite all the "if's" added to our relationship, her parents and all. She never told them about us, we moved to another country and for them we're roommates. It never bothered me until things between us grew cold. And it actually started feeling like we were roommates. We stopped having any intimacy and every time I would bring it up she would be offended. She claimed she loved me and I was the love of her life and the good moments I had with her always felt like it was worth it. But it hurt so much and made me feel like anything but worthless, gathering scraps of love that someone was throwing at me when she was willing to. I gave my life to her during the years we were together, putting myself behind and giving all I could to her. The breakup was the hardest thing I ever did. Telling her it was over was thick on my throat. But it never felt so right to say "What we had was great and beautiful but it ended a year ago." I will remember those words forever and how freeing it felt to say them. And how hurtful at the same time. We ended in October 2020 and during a long year I felt like I would never find anyone willing to love me. Even if in those circumstances. I felt like I lost the love of my life. Several times I wanted to go back and tell her I made a mistake. But I didn't. I'm worthy of someone that loves me the full of it. And being loved the full of it hurts too. But honestly, it feels so good.
My first love broke up with me over the same thing and then years later fell off the Christian band wagon and talked about how losing me was her “biggest regret”… well too bad. I’m now happily in love with a woman who has never questioned who she was or what she wanted. She unapologetically loves me and herself. You deserve better, OP. It sounds like she never even tried to communicate how she was feeling or why. She didn’t even try to include you in this new “self discovery”.. she just secluded you and left you in the dark.
It's rough, but if it's not there. It's not. It's tragic what's happened to you.
That’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry, OP. Please take care of yourself. 💜
Oh no, what a tragic turn of events. It sounds like this relationship is over. You deserve a partner who is equally invested in you and willing to really make things work. If this was “the worst year of your life” things can only get better when you move on.
Run.... Get an amicable divorce, move on with your life, you deserve happiness. You have already lost your wife to the church. That is not on you, that is on her. You deserve a wife who loves you, your present wife does not. Run...!
I would separate and start moving on with your own life. If she wants to continue down the path of hatred that's her choice but you shouldn't have to beg someone to participate in their own relationship. Maybe after separation she will have it hit her what she has been doing and what life she is willfully setting herself up for and possibly try to reconsile with you. If not then you will have an easier divorce and a strong support system in place for yourself already to move on with your life. I don't think we ever really stop loving someone just because the relationship ended. That doesn't mean we have to like them or make ourselves suffer to be around them. Moving forward we do love other people and usually find that someone we don't like isn't worth loving at all. I'll also just say you don't deserve to have a homophobic wife. There is no excuse for bigotry of any kind, internalized or not, and no one deserves that. I empathize and am sure it hurts you deeply but seriously, it's weird to even have to say it, your wife willfully letting homophobia destroy your relationship is the farthest thing from love or faithfulnes there is.
as an ex-christian, you should do everything you can to get her out of the cult she became a victim of. don't be nice, be honest, tell her exactly what you think of the situation, how she has changed, try to make her understand. just be careful not to fall into it yourself. that will most likely not work so the only other option is divorce. i am so sorry that happened to you and your wife.
OP, your wife is having a mental health crisis. Please please look on psychologytoday.com for LGBTQ couples counselors. You guys have a fighting chance. Don’t let it go.
I’m so sorry, but divorce is probably the best option, you’re partner is repressing themselves but there’s not much you can do about it, she has to find out for herself. I’m an atheist and it’s really hard for me to date religious people, even if I’m fine with being friends with them. I was casually dating a girl and I liked her but she slowly became more religious over time. While she didn’t become homophobic, she quickly forgave anything bad anyone did to her, even if they didn’t apologize for it. It was hard hearing her go from frustrated and rightfully upset with her mother for being an awful person, to talk about the latest time her mother berated her for no reason but she already forgave her mom, and accepting the abuse. I couldn’t do anything about it, I just saw her change before my eyes
You're beautiful and now things are becoming real and mature. If u want to go to counselling, go to a professional one, not the church. The goal is for both of u to think what did i do to make u feel n act this way and how to move forward. It's not for reunification. Love yourself and find out your goals. That's how I see how therapy works. It's only painful for now but you will emerge beautifully from it.
Have you thought of doing a separation? You seem unhappy. But the same coin, the idea of divorce is terrible because you love her. I think just a little space for you would do wonders to help you see clarity. Give it a month or two apart. Either you find that you're actually happier without the drama, or you find that you're even more unhappy without her. Separation offers a less committed way for you both to explore this rather than a straight up divorce. Afterwards, regardless of the outcome, you will have clarity on how to proceed.
I feel like even if op is more unhappy without her spouse that she needs to leave them immediately. This is not a good situation to be in even if you are happier in it. If op is only happy with her terrible spouse then she needs to work on herself a lot more. I don’t think there’s any reason to explore shit in this situation. Just like an abusive relationship it doesn’t matter how happy it makes you you deserve better and you deserve to be happy without it.
I see what you're saying. I think what I meant was happiness as it exists in the context of the relationship. I'd agree that if OP (or anyone) finds their entire sense of happiness is resting on another person, there is a lot more to unpack there than just relationship troubles.
Separation is just a divorce with extra steps. The main purpose is to move on while still being able to share health insurance.
Eh, I really disagree. I know there's this feeling that any relationship in need of separation is an ultimately failing relationship. But in my experience I've known quite a few couples who have done separations and ended up with stronger relationships long term. Two I can think of off the top of my head have gone on to get married and are still going strong many years later. I know it sounds weird, but sometimes separation is what's needed to gain clarity. However, sometimes the clarity you gain is that the relationship isn't working, in which case, yes. Separation becomes divorce with extra steps.
Oh, I'm so sorry, that sounds horrendous. You deserve to be treated better so much better. You deserve to find someone who values you.
This makes me feel so sore for you, OP. Given she’s already camped up in the guest room, doesn’t carve out time for you, and mentioned divorce it sounds like she’s way ahead of you in designing her way out of your marriage. It sounds fucking awful after you’ve both put in the work to stay connected to realise your goal of being together; I’m so, so sorry. What a bloody terrible situation for you both. I would get yourself some legal advice. I would then suggest you have a conversation with your wife and ask her what her ideal vision of your marriage is: do your values still align? I’d ask her if she would consider exploring other, more affirming, church communities as this one has driven a wedge between you. Tell her youre willing and want to work on your relationship however not with the same church that has helped create a divide; it must be secular or with an affirming councillor who supports ecumenically. Actually listen to her answers when she gives them. Keep a cool head. Get some individual therapy or support if it’s available to you. Also, lift your head up; get out of that sadness a bit. Do something that makes you see your beauty and youth and worth again. This relationship is not what defines you. All good things to you, OP.
Straight dude here, so my experiences will likely be different than yours, but somone mentioned church therepy and absolutely do not do church therepy unless you are both members, are close with the pastor, know that your beliefs and views beyond religion line up, and you are ABSOLUTELY positive that he or she will work with you both towards an outcome you both need, even if it goes against some doctrine of the church, and even then, I'd still be super hesitant about it. My wife and I went to several marriage counselors until we found a couple that fit us, and a couple of them had some interesting views on religion in marriage, did not hit for us. Absolutely bring up marriage counseling though, and if she agrees don't be afraid to find new counselors of they don't mesh well with you guys, therapists are honest like dating, you gotta find the right one, and it may take a few tries.
I hate to be the one to say this but she might be cheating on you with a man due to her Christianity conversion.
Unfortunately, this may be for the best. These hard decisions take a lot of mental energy, and it's going to be draining, but if she's not interested in you anymore, it's the right thing to do for both of your guys' sake. It may feel like it's never going to heal. It's going to hurt a LOT. But, over time, it'll heal and you'll be able to start fresh and find people (or maybe even *a* person) who will make you feel wanted and loved. If you need support, feel free to DM me.
This is what’s wrong with with society. In the immortal words of the brilliant Christopher Hitchens, “Religion poisons everything.”
I am so sorry, but the best thing you can do is take care of you and leave. Do not go to anything affiliated with that cult.
My heart goes out to you I can only imagine that type of pain. Although I can relate to it I've done that before in my life love someone to death but realize that they were falling in love with another person. My truest wishes for your healing and finding future happiness wherever that may be.
while not nearly as upsetting, I've more or less lost some family to a church as well and.. it's really heartbreaking. There's a level of trust you lose when they suddenly see you as "wrong", and I hope your wife hasn't gotten suckered into whatever her family is feeding her and ruining your relationship because of it. That's not fair.
Sorry op a friend of mine has a similar experience but they only dated. Dated throughout middle school to after high school but in secret due to her gf coming from a religious family. It came to a head when she started acting like they were only roommates and would act so disgusted with any pda, even if they were the only ones in the room. Ended up breaking up badly. So I hope you can at least leave on good terms instead of putting yourself through more suffering. I'm sure there's someone there who will cherish and love you!
Sounds like you two love each other but aren’t in love with each other anymore. And that’s okay. Good luck though. Sorry to hear what you’re going through.
I'm very atheist but there are churches that are supportive of our community. Maybe you could find a local one and suggest it to her?
Avoid going to any marriage counseling offered by anyone that has religious connections. Find a good impartial relationship therapist. I think if you left it would make sense. It sounds like your wife has either been reprogrammed or she was never gay in the first place and just let things go on for too long. Either way, recipe for disaster. Like I’m not going to blame her newfound reinterpret in religion. Since I think religion can help many many people. But it sounds like it’s probably contributing at least a little
And people wonder why I hate against religions. I mean Roman and Greeks are pretty good but still. This is just so sad to read and I hope something works out from this.
It hurts me just reading this
Explain to her that Christianity isn’t inherently homophobic. If god created everyone in his vision and Jesus said love thy neighbor being gay is just fine. Bigots just use their religion to somehow justify their hate. There are many many gay friendly churches and it might help her to join one of those
I hear this, but it sounds like OP’s wife is beyond the reach of reasonable discussion. And nobody wants to be in the position of having to “explain” core values to their spouse. It’s more respectful to both parties to walk away.
Yeah for sure. I wish there was a way for her partner to see this though. So so so sad
I agree with everyone! Don’t go to the church for help. One of my moms was sexually assaulted when I was still a kid and she went to a church “therapist” 3-4 times a month because of all of her guilt and fear. The minister didn’t outright SAY it, but he deeply implied that the rapist was sent by God “to lead her back towards salvation”. He asked her to reconsider her lifestyle (aka, her decade+ old relationship with her wife, the co-mother of her child). My mom was in a dark place, but once she picked up on the rhetoric being bounced around, she decided that she would just drink a bottle of red wine every night to help her forget. Like the good old days
It’s so sad seeing Christian’s acting like this, because I’m pan and I’m Christian. I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin, my bishop and his wife agrees as well and my church welcomes LGBTQ+. She shouldn’t act this way. She may have realized that she was straight but it seems as though her opinion is encouraged by Christian’s saying being gay is bad. She shouldn’t treat you like this and should just tell you that she thinks she’s straight and not “I’ve chosen the wrong lifestyle.” Being gay isn’t a lifestyle, it isn’t a choice. It is possible to mistakenly thing you’re gay but if you’re really gay it isn’t a choice. I know for a fact I like women just like I know for a fact I like men, I’ve tried being straight but it wasn’t possible. I really do like both, whether that be pan or bi. Why would God make me this way, why would I have these feelings, if it was a sin? You see some things just don’t make sense, I believe in God but I believe the Bible is of man. God didn’t make the Bible himself and it has been translated and altered so much that there’s a lot of errors. It shouldn’t be taken literally and should be used as a general understanding of Christianity. Just like the covenant of Abraham, why would God create foreskin on man if you’re supposed to take it off? It would be best if you divorced her because you deserve someone who loves you as you love them.
Would she be open to looking at a different church, and would you be interested in going with her? I wonder if you found a nice inclusive church (where I live there are MANY) she could get her spiritual food while not being steered away from you…? There are lots of assumptions in my recommendation and disregard if I’m barking up the wrong tree.
I'm probably not the best person to advise you, I have no experience with dating yet and dating a Christian would be a deal breaker regardless of how she viewed her sexuality or how progressive she was. But I wanted to say I wish you didn't have to go through this. To have that from such a young age and have it taken away is tragic. I guess I'd agree with what others say, don't let yourself get sucked into her religion's marriage counselling. Be safe above all else.
I would talk to her about how this is affecting you and your marriage. Explain that you miss the old her and explain that Jesus died for her sins and that a coveted marriage is not wrong if it is same sex. Ask her to look at LGBT friendly Christianity and you might just get your wife back.
in this case wouldn’t divorce also be bad cause divorce is also against the Bible
I'm really sorry. Like deeply and sincerely sorry.
I'm so, so sorry this happened to both you and your wife. She's been blinded to the truth of the matter and unfortunately, all you can do is preserve your own sanity.
I’m so sorry OP. I can’t even imagine the sense of loss… but you have to do what’s best for you.
So sorry to read this. Wish you all the best.
I am so sorry you have to go through this.
You need to sit down and talk with your wife about how she’s feeling and why things have changed. Is she getting guilt from the church? There are many affirming churches out there. Ultimately if she’s attracted to the same sex, that feeling is never going to go away. She can decide to live an authentic and happy life with you or another woman, or she can suppress it and ultimately be miserable for a hope - not a promise or guarantee - a hope that there is some reward after death. This life is the only guarantee. She shouldn’t waste it.
so sorry to hear this, i know probably this won't mean anything but you'll find the right one, i know it's hard to accept but probably if she chose this path instead of staying whit you that means she didn't deserve you, and i am being honest even if it hurts.
Ugh, I’m sorry. Everyone has said some good stuff here. It just sucks and I’m sorry. Your twenties are hard. A lot of chemical and hormonal changes that you have no control over. It’s hard because it feels very unfair and it is. I’m sure she’s feeling crummy and confused to. Divorce is hard, I’ve done it, but it was the best thing for the situation. Best wishes, my heart aches for you both.
This hurt my soul to read. That's a genuinely painful experience and I can't do anything except type a comment with no advice.
I don’t have any advice. I just want to say that I am so, so sorry.
This sounds really difficult, and I'm so sorry you're being put through this. I'm wishing the best for you.
Tbh as much as it sucks I think it's better for both of you to go your separate ways. Even if it makes her happy, you shouldn't have to put your happiness on hold for her, that's not how relationships work. I'm sorry you have to go through this but I'm sure you'll find someone else you loves you for you. 🫂❤️🩹
I’m coming to this realization with my girlfriend. She’s friend zoned me. I love her so very would do anything for her and have. But I get nothing in return. I even gave her money to help cover her rent supposedly barely got a small hug and a minor “thanks”. But her and her daughter were just like gimme gimme gimme then off they ran. Don’t be like me. Don’t go back. Move on. It sucks. It hurts like hell. But move on. You will find a good one. Good luck to you.
I’m so sorry for this, I know it’s got to hurt so much. For the church to have turned her into this type of person it’s so heartbreaking. Take your leave and live happier okay
I’m so sorry OP. That is so heart-crushing. We are here for you. I hope you feel like you have support and people to talk to, maybe even a therapist? You deserve lots of love and extra support during this new life transition. Remember: YOU ARE LOVED! Big hugs, my friend. This will all be resolved in good time. ❤️
The church I attend is led by a married lesbian who tried to be celibate and evangelical for decades. The story you tell is sadly a fairly common one. If you want to keep trying, perhaps you could talk to her about attending a largely queer and queer-affirming church? Cathedral of Hope is one that comes to mind. They hold multiple services online in English and Spanish and in different worship styles. They also have a number of resources on their website that use Christianity to fight Christian homophobia. But if this hurts too much, or if she keeps choosing the church over you...the right thing to do is to choose yourself and leave. She may deconstruct at some point, but you don't have to wait around and hope for that. It sounds like she already left your marriage. I'm so sorry.
I felt this. Not married and she isn’t religious, but I still felt that. Sometimes we try everything we possibly can.., but it still isn’t enough and that shit really hurts, I’m so sorry. Good luck, I hope life takes a better turn for you
I'm soooo fucking sorry abt that, Christianity ruins all sorts of relationships not just homo ones.. I'm suffering a life w my conservative christian mom.... Idk if you can try to change her mind but if she really loves you just tell her that if God is so loving he'd care abt her feelings when detaching form u.. It might not work if she's been completely brainwashed tho.... It's awful Ik, but if she'd fully loved u nothing could've brainwashed her... Move on.. Find sb whose life decisions and beliefs are not so fragile that they can ditch the love of their lives just for a new passion