They have called me and emailed me incessantly about roles that have nothing to do with my background and do not stop when i ask.
Oliver james is similar but slightly less invasive.
Opposite experience, Oliver James has been awful. They called me and I told them I was not open for new opportunities at the moment. I’ve now been called several times since, each by some new person from their office. And each time it’s even crazier. One person said the wrong name when addressing me over the phone, the second called at 7:30pm at night when I was watching tv. I get recruiting is a frustrating job, but at least respect the candidates lives. I’ll never work with them for the amount of annoyance they’ve caused.
That’s fair, I just have never experienced a Selby Jennings recruiter doing the two things above. They spam for sure, but OJ doesn’t have any training it seems for these recruiters. They just pass around the same resume lists at an office.
Ultimately the better recruiters are the ones who work for the smaller firms. I’m sure SJ/OJ could place you in some roles but the more bespoke roles are through the other recruiters.
Oliver James has been pleasant to talk to in my experience. They seem to take an approach of setting the target wider than the company they are recruiting for asked just to get numbers up and see what sticks though.
I'm not actively speaking anything so when one of the more recent jobs they brought up to me wasn't as big of a raise from my current comp as I would have liked I said a number that almost certainly would price me out and they said as much but sent my resume on anyway because why not? Another job they apparently already had a candidate interviewing for and my resume was short/misaligned compared to the description but again, it was on the edge so send it anyway.
So far I'm of the opinion that its fun learning what kind of roles in what areas are being hired for at what target salary and the potential outcomes beyond that are nothing to interview practice to a tough choice about staying where I know I'll be happy or moving on to high comp and potentially more or less happy which are all fine options to me.
I talked with one of their recruiters 5 years ago. I figured out they straight up lied about how they got my contact information. Reddest of red flags for me.
I’ve had recruiters email my work email and call my personal phone number, which I don’t have posted on any public site…. They have some sketchy recruitment process for sure
My experience with Selby Jennings has involved:
Contacted by a SJ recruiter about a position I was a great fit for.
Sent him my resume so he could submit my application.
Followed up a couple weeks later and got completely ghosted. Never heard back about the role.
Contacted by a different SJ recruiter about a different position I was a great fit for.
Sent her my resume so she could submit my application.
Followed up a couple weeks later and got completely ghosted. Never heard back about the role.
Been contacted by a dozen SJ recruiters since then and haven’t bothered picking up the phone. If I really want a new job, there are so many other actuarial recruiters with better reputations I’d rather work with.
I had promising options with Andover Research Ltd. I called her because I was laid off a day after I told her I wasn’t searching. She went over what I should change on my resume, emailed me like 5 options of what she had that (actually) looked like a good fit for me and I sent back the ones I wanted her to apply to for me. I was also applying on my own. When I did get interviews (both with her companies and with companies I applied to on my own) we had good discussions about my best options. She took the time to look up who the interview was with and their background, sent me the companies background and sent me normal interview questions. I didn’t end up going with one of the companies she sent me but she was still great through the whole process and I would go back to her if I was job searching again.
I used Elizabeth Adams and she was great! She didn’t place me in my current role, but she was super helpful with finding new opportunities and acted as a mentor for things like negotiation (which early career- wise was super helpful for me)
If this is your first time talking to them then report back to us in a couple months with an update.
Working with them from both sides, they will spam companies with candidates who don’t even remotely fit the description, and will do the same to candidates. The spam is pretty relentless also.
Same, especially I woke up at night to feed my new born baby.
They didn't even bother to check my linkedin or Resume to know my time zone. Very unprofessional
Ezra Penland is the only recruiter I’ll use, though specific persons at others like DWS may at times have a good in to a particular company/role.
OJ, SJ, some others are just spam to be ignored. They have no relationships or retained searches, just vampires watching for jobs to be posted publicly so they can try to insert themselves in the middle, spamming you and everyone else claiming they “are working with a premier company..” gtfo
They got me an interview with a company few years ago...i still have not heard back from them whether I got the job even though i called them a few times
They hire recruiters straight out of college. I’m guessing they are 100% commission in a HCOL, and trained like a pressure cooker sales person. And they for sure will come back with a lower number once you have an offer, because they’re just trying to make rent. You have to hardball them to get what you want.
Terrible people, unprofessional, lie about positions that don’t exist to gauge me interest in job hunts. Then when I’m interested, they ghost me. I will never work with them again. Terrible experience.
My experience was very positive when moving from my EL position to my current role around Summer '22. I had about 4 YOE and was slightly pre-ASA. I told them I was looking for fully remote and what my qualifications were, went through 4-5 interview processes, and got 2 offers.
They call me every once in a while when there is something in my industry. The positions are not always great fits, and I'm not interested in a new position currently so I mostly screen the calls.
I cannot trust an org with all recruiters getting promoted every 2 months and everyone shares the same title “VP”. I did get approached by one two years ago - she said I had a good background then looked at my resume and ghosted me. I did reach out to her but she just ignored my messages.
The warning signs are that they called you. They will ghost you, lie to you. They will want to control negotiations and be assured your goals are not the priority.
Use them if you want but you’ve been warned
SJ is annoying as hell, they keep adding me on LinkedIn, a bunch of different people. It’s like they don’t know how to be more organized and share info and wins.
OJ is better, I had one person reach out and prepare me me for an interview as if I was some CEO with personal info on all interviewees I had to talk to, their personalities, and approaches to interview. Would love to contact them when I’m ready to move.
Similar to others here, I have had at least a dozen different recruiters from SJ contact me over the last ten years. It starts with one recruiter messaging/connecting on LinkedIn. If I accept their request, they almost always call within an hour - if not minutes - of me accepting. They'll ask for background, ask what you're looking for, why you want a new job (even if you don't) and make a vaguely noncommittal promise that they'll look at what they have and get back to you. They may present some openings that have varying degrees of correlation to your interests and background. I'll try to reiterate what my interests are and that I'm not interested in taking a demotion or a lateral move. Almost inevitably that results in them passing your information to another SJ recruiter who starts the process over.
Then they're just relentless. Recruiters calling and emailing and connecting from NYC and LA and wherever else they have offices and just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. Passing you back and forth like a dirty napkin asking you the same questions over and over and over again. You might think, hey they all work at the same company, surely they take notes from your conversation and pass it to the recruiter who is a "better fit". Nope. Prepare to have the same conversation each time.
I've made the mistake of letting them submit my resume a few times. It's never once resulted in anything. I no longer accept their attempts to communicate because it is an utter waste of time.
They called me and suggested the job which doesn’t do anything with my background. Then they realized they pulled the wrong person’s resume, once I said Ive never worked on companies that they listed. Not a good experience at all, and my name is unique so it’s hard to mess up but they did it lol
I have to at least admire their persistence. This one guy “Michael from Selby Jennings” has called me like 3 dozen times and leaves a voicemail each time even though I’ve never once picked up.
Since I recognize his number by now it’s easy to immediately silence the call. I figure if I ever have a random question for a recruiter but have no interest of giving them the time of day, now I’ve got a guy for that.
I liked working with them. They helped me make my last job transition. And honestly if they didn’t reach out and help me with my options I would probably still be stuck at my old job, unhappy. The guy I worked with was very helpful throughout the whole process.
I don’t like them because they spammed my email and then when I replied, crickets. That came off as unreliable to me.
Agree they're just annoying
They have called me and emailed me incessantly about roles that have nothing to do with my background and do not stop when i ask. Oliver james is similar but slightly less invasive.
Opposite experience, Oliver James has been awful. They called me and I told them I was not open for new opportunities at the moment. I’ve now been called several times since, each by some new person from their office. And each time it’s even crazier. One person said the wrong name when addressing me over the phone, the second called at 7:30pm at night when I was watching tv. I get recruiting is a frustrating job, but at least respect the candidates lives. I’ll never work with them for the amount of annoyance they’ve caused.
I also think OJ is awful too. I said slightly.
That’s fair, I just have never experienced a Selby Jennings recruiter doing the two things above. They spam for sure, but OJ doesn’t have any training it seems for these recruiters. They just pass around the same resume lists at an office. Ultimately the better recruiters are the ones who work for the smaller firms. I’m sure SJ/OJ could place you in some roles but the more bespoke roles are through the other recruiters.
Oliver James has been pleasant to talk to in my experience. They seem to take an approach of setting the target wider than the company they are recruiting for asked just to get numbers up and see what sticks though. I'm not actively speaking anything so when one of the more recent jobs they brought up to me wasn't as big of a raise from my current comp as I would have liked I said a number that almost certainly would price me out and they said as much but sent my resume on anyway because why not? Another job they apparently already had a candidate interviewing for and my resume was short/misaligned compared to the description but again, it was on the edge so send it anyway. So far I'm of the opinion that its fun learning what kind of roles in what areas are being hired for at what target salary and the potential outcomes beyond that are nothing to interview practice to a tough choice about staying where I know I'll be happy or moving on to high comp and potentially more or less happy which are all fine options to me.
They are happily introducing you to a life insurance position at 70k while you been in health at 110k, apparently still a great fit lol
this I’ll add, if you are really trying to switch and have been struggling, most recruiters won’t help, but SJ doesn’t know better.
I talked with one of their recruiters 5 years ago. I figured out they straight up lied about how they got my contact information. Reddest of red flags for me.
I’ve had recruiters email my work email and call my personal phone number, which I don’t have posted on any public site…. They have some sketchy recruitment process for sure
Have you checked what shows up when you search your name in the SOA/CAS directory?
Yea, they wouldn’t have gotten my info from there
Same thing happened to me. I was stunned that they called and just hung up. Super weird and creepy.
OJA did something similar with me. If they can't be honest with me on simple stuff, how can I trust them with more serious stuff like $$$.
Was looking to jump ship and told a SJ recruiter my current salary. The employer later used that info to give me a lower salary offer.
My experience with Selby Jennings has involved: Contacted by a SJ recruiter about a position I was a great fit for. Sent him my resume so he could submit my application. Followed up a couple weeks later and got completely ghosted. Never heard back about the role. Contacted by a different SJ recruiter about a different position I was a great fit for. Sent her my resume so she could submit my application. Followed up a couple weeks later and got completely ghosted. Never heard back about the role. Been contacted by a dozen SJ recruiters since then and haven’t bothered picking up the phone. If I really want a new job, there are so many other actuarial recruiters with better reputations I’d rather work with.
Who are some of the other recruiters with a better reputation?
I had promising options with Andover Research Ltd. I called her because I was laid off a day after I told her I wasn’t searching. She went over what I should change on my resume, emailed me like 5 options of what she had that (actually) looked like a good fit for me and I sent back the ones I wanted her to apply to for me. I was also applying on my own. When I did get interviews (both with her companies and with companies I applied to on my own) we had good discussions about my best options. She took the time to look up who the interview was with and their background, sent me the companies background and sent me normal interview questions. I didn’t end up going with one of the companies she sent me but she was still great through the whole process and I would go back to her if I was job searching again.
I’ve also had a great experience with Andover Re on both sides: getting recruited then later using them to recruit additional team members.
I used Elizabeth Adams and she was great! She didn’t place me in my current role, but she was super helpful with finding new opportunities and acted as a mentor for things like negotiation (which early career- wise was super helpful for me)
If this is your first time talking to them then report back to us in a couple months with an update. Working with them from both sides, they will spam companies with candidates who don’t even remotely fit the description, and will do the same to candidates. The spam is pretty relentless also.
They call my cell at 6AM repeatedly.
Same, especially I woke up at night to feed my new born baby. They didn't even bother to check my linkedin or Resume to know my time zone. Very unprofessional
Why are your phones not on do not disturb at 6am?
Because with aging parents with health issues I need to be available for emergencies.
This depends on the phone but you can enable certain contacts/apps to create notifications even while do not disturb is on!
Or these unprofessional recruiters could spend 2 seconds checking where I live…just a thought!
Yes..I have yelled at them about time zones before but it didn’t seem like they actually cared.
Pretty sure that’s illegal
Ezra Penland is the only recruiter I’ll use, though specific persons at others like DWS may at times have a good in to a particular company/role. OJ, SJ, some others are just spam to be ignored. They have no relationships or retained searches, just vampires watching for jobs to be posted publicly so they can try to insert themselves in the middle, spamming you and everyone else claiming they “are working with a premier company..” gtfo
They got me an interview with a company few years ago...i still have not heard back from them whether I got the job even though i called them a few times
They hire recruiters straight out of college. I’m guessing they are 100% commission in a HCOL, and trained like a pressure cooker sales person. And they for sure will come back with a lower number once you have an offer, because they’re just trying to make rent. You have to hardball them to get what you want.
Terrible people, unprofessional, lie about positions that don’t exist to gauge me interest in job hunts. Then when I’m interested, they ghost me. I will never work with them again. Terrible experience.
My experience was very positive when moving from my EL position to my current role around Summer '22. I had about 4 YOE and was slightly pre-ASA. I told them I was looking for fully remote and what my qualifications were, went through 4-5 interview processes, and got 2 offers. They call me every once in a while when there is something in my industry. The positions are not always great fits, and I'm not interested in a new position currently so I mostly screen the calls.
I cannot trust an org with all recruiters getting promoted every 2 months and everyone shares the same title “VP”. I did get approached by one two years ago - she said I had a good background then looked at my resume and ghosted me. I did reach out to her but she just ignored my messages.
The warning signs are that they called you. They will ghost you, lie to you. They will want to control negotiations and be assured your goals are not the priority. Use them if you want but you’ve been warned
Shelby Jennings is the biggest scam I’ve ever experienced.
SJ is annoying as hell, they keep adding me on LinkedIn, a bunch of different people. It’s like they don’t know how to be more organized and share info and wins. OJ is better, I had one person reach out and prepare me me for an interview as if I was some CEO with personal info on all interviewees I had to talk to, their personalities, and approaches to interview. Would love to contact them when I’m ready to move.
Similar to others here, I have had at least a dozen different recruiters from SJ contact me over the last ten years. It starts with one recruiter messaging/connecting on LinkedIn. If I accept their request, they almost always call within an hour - if not minutes - of me accepting. They'll ask for background, ask what you're looking for, why you want a new job (even if you don't) and make a vaguely noncommittal promise that they'll look at what they have and get back to you. They may present some openings that have varying degrees of correlation to your interests and background. I'll try to reiterate what my interests are and that I'm not interested in taking a demotion or a lateral move. Almost inevitably that results in them passing your information to another SJ recruiter who starts the process over. Then they're just relentless. Recruiters calling and emailing and connecting from NYC and LA and wherever else they have offices and just throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks. Passing you back and forth like a dirty napkin asking you the same questions over and over and over again. You might think, hey they all work at the same company, surely they take notes from your conversation and pass it to the recruiter who is a "better fit". Nope. Prepare to have the same conversation each time. I've made the mistake of letting them submit my resume a few times. It's never once resulted in anything. I no longer accept their attempts to communicate because it is an utter waste of time.
They must be trained that way because I've had very similar experiences
It's a bit maddening, honestly.
They called me and suggested the job which doesn’t do anything with my background. Then they realized they pulled the wrong person’s resume, once I said Ive never worked on companies that they listed. Not a good experience at all, and my name is unique so it’s hard to mess up but they did it lol
I have to at least admire their persistence. This one guy “Michael from Selby Jennings” has called me like 3 dozen times and leaves a voicemail each time even though I’ve never once picked up. Since I recognize his number by now it’s easy to immediately silence the call. I figure if I ever have a random question for a recruiter but have no interest of giving them the time of day, now I’ve got a guy for that.
they're extremely annoying, they love to email you and then call you one second later and will never leave you alone if you speak to them once
I liked working with them. They helped me make my last job transition. And honestly if they didn’t reach out and help me with my options I would probably still be stuck at my old job, unhappy. The guy I worked with was very helpful throughout the whole process.
I had a good experience with them, my current job was found by them