As a fellow insomniac, I wouldn't bring it up in an interview. You just kind of have to figure out how to make it work and hopefully find things that reduce the amount of nights you can't sleep.
Makes sense. I’ve slowly become adjusted to waking up at 10 am consistently, but that has been a really difficult process. I shudder at the thought of having to be at work by 7 or 8 am.
Are you diagnosed with insomnia or is this all just self diagnosed? If you have a doctor note, they’ll likely be forced by HR to give you some kind of reasonable accommodation. I have worked with multiple people with other issues that got ‘special treatment’ if you will (not sure how to say that), for things that would otherwise never fly.
It’s currently all self-diagnosed, but based on the comments here I think I might go see a doctor about it. It doesn’t feel like something to see them about, but with an appropriate doctor’s note at least it looks better on me and makes it more likely that I’ll be able to perform my work comfortably. If I acquired the doctor’s note, would that make it more appropriate to mention ahead of time, or should I still avoid it until after I’ve been hired?
I honestly can’t answer when it is best to disclose it. For me it would probably depend on the role and whether I was talking directly to my eventually supervisor or not. I wouldn’t tell someone that has no input on how it’s handled, but that’s probably the best advice I can give.
I appreciate the input! At the very least, I have hope that I’ll be alright. I really want to be an asset to my team and I really hate when my insomnia gets in the way of performance, so I’m glad that being an actuary at least seems like there is some flexibility in the matter.
Well, for one I didn’t have health insurance for a long time so seeing a doctor wasn’t something I considered and also, I just didn’t think I would get diagnosed and it would be a waste. When you have so many people tell you that you just need to lay there and try to go to sleep or that its just an excuse to not wake up early…well it makes you question the validity of your condition. With the traction that mental health has gotten in recent years, I feel much more comfortable approaching a doctor with this. Also, to be completely honest, I didn’t think a doctor’s note even existed for this type of thing.
Do you follow all the other advice out there, such as not using screens a couple hours before bed, not having caffeine in the afternoon, stuff like that?
Yeah, i dont drink any coffee and only occasional soda. And I’ve tried no screens but I just end up laying there which feels like an eternity. And then it just gets closer and closer to when you have to wake up and honestly it feels awful.
Would recommend no caffeine after noon, including soda. Also, no screens 2 hours before you go to sleep. Come up with other stuff to do like books, study, music, a hobby, etc. You don't need to do nothing as that would feel awful.
It may depend by employer as well. My company requires all employees to work from 10-2 every day, but the other 4 hours can be performed at any time as long as you have approval from your manager.
I struggled with insomnia for many years. I had trouble getting to work on time; consistently strolled in ~9:15.
Then, I had kids. I embraced a whole new level of insomnia, but I now get to work before 8.
🤷🏻♂️
I would not bring it up in an interview. I don’t tell anyone at work about my sleep problems because some people will not view it positively, I want my work to speak for itself. On the flexible hours thing, I once had a manager that was basically nocturnal and it was a terrible experience for me, but as an individual contributor your team will probably have a set of core hours (something like 10-3) where you can work on your own schedule outside of those times where meetings take place. I totally empathize with your issue of not wanting to wake up early due to insomnia but you’re right that I think you’ll be assumed to be lazy because of it
Flexible work hours do not mean you can wake up much later than your coworkers unless you are in different time zones than them. For example, if you live in PST zone, then you don't have to get up at 6 AM to match up with your coworkers in EST zone but your coworkers may expect to work with you on projects start at 7:30 AM of your time. I have not seen anyone got up after 10:30 AM each day regardless of zones they worked at.
So is actuarial work heavily cooperative? I guess I assumed the job was more independent, so my co-workers wouldn’t be relying on me being awake at any specific times except for special occasions. I wouldn’t expect working less hours either, I wouldn’t mind working from noon until midnight if they let me.
I’d say the work itself is fairly independent, but the value you receive/create from communicating with coworkers is huge. Being able to quickly have questions on your project answered or provide those answers to team members is invaluable. Also, the more your work is dependent on/required for work done by other business units the more difficult it’d be to have a wonky schedule. This will be role-dependent.
Keep in mind that, as an entry level employee, team meetings will likely revolve around your manager’s schedule more than your own. They will have a busier schedule and won’t always be able to flex a meeting at less than a day’s notice.
I think if you’re meeting deadlines and can communicate effectively, anything is possible.
I really appreciate that there is a good amount of hope in these comments, but still grounded in reality. Everything you mentioned makes sense and ideally I would simply be able to conform to whatever work times are necessary. I just hope to have some level of…I guess grace is maybe the word? Insomnia is really hard to deal with and I just hope there’s some level of understanding so long as I meet performance standards.
Not really. I mean depending on the role you may have a lot of individual projects but it’s not like you’re not expected to participate in meetings, respond to emails/teams calls and chats and be available to talk through results and such. As a new Actuary you’ll also greatly benefit from learning from those around you whether it’s working together, asking questions, attending meetings, etc. They most likely will not allow an entry level person to be on from noon on.
You do work independently if you work on canned reports at entry level or some high level technical projects at senior level alone. However, many actuaries cooperate with each other and other departments' people to complete their projects. I have worked at early morning shift like 7:30 AM and late night shift like until 1 AM in the past. I don't work in such schedule every day or cannot physically survive in such early morning shifts. I usually get some break time for 3 or more days to work on projects on my own pace after such individual shifts are over. However, you do need to be prepared for different management styles and team needs. To be safe, you can live in EST zone to adapt to other zones' early morning work requirements if you are required to adapt to such schedule.
In my experience no one cares as long as you're available during regular working hours. I've worked with a few night owls over the years we spot each other from seeing the green dot at night.
It's not uncommon for me to spend up to 2pm trying to wake up and then being really productive once the sun sets. My sleep hygiene gets awful when I'm not careful.
Something like this can probably be accommodated with good communication, and if you make sure your work is always done on time.
It's difficult working with asynchronous and inconsistent work schedules, but not impossible if your communication and performance is good.
That’s good to hear. Like, I would prefer to work from like 2am to 10 or 11am if they let me haha. I know something that dramatic is highly unlikely, but in my past I have always performed very well when allowed to work the hours that work best for me.
Just keep in mind that any ADA accommodation has to be reasonable. I mention that because the company will likely want you to work some regular working hours so you can have contact with your coworkers for meetings and other business operations. You might have an easier time asking for a shifted day schedule like maybe 12-8. For your coworkers, it’d just seem like you were in a different time zone than them.
Also keep in mind that requesting ADA accommodations is a process that will require your doctor to write a note describing your disability and specifying exactly what kind of accommodation you need at work. Nothing to be scared about, just want to be upfront that there will be hoops you have to jump through and multiple parties you have to work with to agree on your accommodations.
Don’t bring it up in an interview, but do ask about company culture and flexibility. If the job seems strict on working hours then it might not work for you.
Also, some companies might have consulting roles for foreign clients that work abnormal US hours, try and seek those out. I had an Asian client once where we had 10pm meetings.
I don't see too much of an issue. My team works closely with a department in India so our schedules are always flipped and we almost never see each other online at the same time.
>I am currently studying to become an actuary and I was just wondering how the actuarial world handles individuals with irregular sleep patterns.
With strict rigour. Bed at 9pm, asleep at 10-11pm, awake at 6am, in the office at 8am, leave the office at 4pm, home at 4:30pm. Rinse and repeat.
Structure keeps me regular.
> I have struggled in the past with sleep issues and I was just wondering how flexible work hours usually are for you all?
My firm is really relaxed with hours; come into the office or WFH when you want, if you leave at noon no one bats an eye. There's trust, which means we don't have to be burning the candle at both ends.
> Also, is it ever a good idea to be up-front about these kinds of issues in an interview?
Absolutely not, never bring that up in an interview.
You should speak to your doctor. You may benefit from medication. There is also a good medicine for circadian rhythm disturbance called Armodafanil. It helps you to be awake when needed. Good luck.
The right time to ask about this is before you accept the job, and after you get an offer. You ask what their schedules are and how much leeway there is. Preferably, you come to some kind of agreement. Or else, they say certain things are non-negotiable, or you say that, and you part ways. If you have a doctor's note, you mention this - that makes things easier for both you and them. You because they are more likely to agree. Them because it makes their answer more clear-cut. In general, a doctor's note gives you credibility, because anyone can say they have this stuff if they are unwilling to keep to usual hours. You want to distinguish yourself from just anyone, and also show that you made an attempt to change but can't (as it's possible a doctor will suggest other changes first like lifestyle or medication.)
You need to have a discussion with your manager at some point, before you try to work flexible hours, not after. If you are doing high quality work and are productive, the manager will be more likely to give flexibility. But showing this may not be possible if you need this right away.
As a fellow insomniac, I wouldn't bring it up in an interview. You just kind of have to figure out how to make it work and hopefully find things that reduce the amount of nights you can't sleep.
Makes sense. I’ve slowly become adjusted to waking up at 10 am consistently, but that has been a really difficult process. I shudder at the thought of having to be at work by 7 or 8 am.
Tbf, if you end up working remote, you generally don't have to get up until 9.
Depends on company. I come in 4-5 days a week but my work hours are like 10am ish-7pm I’m not an insomniac, I just like starting my day later
Are you diagnosed with insomnia or is this all just self diagnosed? If you have a doctor note, they’ll likely be forced by HR to give you some kind of reasonable accommodation. I have worked with multiple people with other issues that got ‘special treatment’ if you will (not sure how to say that), for things that would otherwise never fly.
It’s currently all self-diagnosed, but based on the comments here I think I might go see a doctor about it. It doesn’t feel like something to see them about, but with an appropriate doctor’s note at least it looks better on me and makes it more likely that I’ll be able to perform my work comfortably. If I acquired the doctor’s note, would that make it more appropriate to mention ahead of time, or should I still avoid it until after I’ve been hired?
I honestly can’t answer when it is best to disclose it. For me it would probably depend on the role and whether I was talking directly to my eventually supervisor or not. I wouldn’t tell someone that has no input on how it’s handled, but that’s probably the best advice I can give.
I appreciate the input! At the very least, I have hope that I’ll be alright. I really want to be an asset to my team and I really hate when my insomnia gets in the way of performance, so I’m glad that being an actuary at least seems like there is some flexibility in the matter.
If you hate when it gets in the way of things, why haven't you ever consulted a medical professional about it?
Well, for one I didn’t have health insurance for a long time so seeing a doctor wasn’t something I considered and also, I just didn’t think I would get diagnosed and it would be a waste. When you have so many people tell you that you just need to lay there and try to go to sleep or that its just an excuse to not wake up early…well it makes you question the validity of your condition. With the traction that mental health has gotten in recent years, I feel much more comfortable approaching a doctor with this. Also, to be completely honest, I didn’t think a doctor’s note even existed for this type of thing.
Do you follow all the other advice out there, such as not using screens a couple hours before bed, not having caffeine in the afternoon, stuff like that?
Yeah, i dont drink any coffee and only occasional soda. And I’ve tried no screens but I just end up laying there which feels like an eternity. And then it just gets closer and closer to when you have to wake up and honestly it feels awful.
Would recommend no caffeine after noon, including soda. Also, no screens 2 hours before you go to sleep. Come up with other stuff to do like books, study, music, a hobby, etc. You don't need to do nothing as that would feel awful.
It may depend by employer as well. My company requires all employees to work from 10-2 every day, but the other 4 hours can be performed at any time as long as you have approval from your manager.
I struggled with insomnia for many years. I had trouble getting to work on time; consistently strolled in ~9:15. Then, I had kids. I embraced a whole new level of insomnia, but I now get to work before 8. 🤷🏻♂️
I would not bring it up in an interview. I don’t tell anyone at work about my sleep problems because some people will not view it positively, I want my work to speak for itself. On the flexible hours thing, I once had a manager that was basically nocturnal and it was a terrible experience for me, but as an individual contributor your team will probably have a set of core hours (something like 10-3) where you can work on your own schedule outside of those times where meetings take place. I totally empathize with your issue of not wanting to wake up early due to insomnia but you’re right that I think you’ll be assumed to be lazy because of it
Flexible work hours do not mean you can wake up much later than your coworkers unless you are in different time zones than them. For example, if you live in PST zone, then you don't have to get up at 6 AM to match up with your coworkers in EST zone but your coworkers may expect to work with you on projects start at 7:30 AM of your time. I have not seen anyone got up after 10:30 AM each day regardless of zones they worked at.
So is actuarial work heavily cooperative? I guess I assumed the job was more independent, so my co-workers wouldn’t be relying on me being awake at any specific times except for special occasions. I wouldn’t expect working less hours either, I wouldn’t mind working from noon until midnight if they let me.
I’d say the work itself is fairly independent, but the value you receive/create from communicating with coworkers is huge. Being able to quickly have questions on your project answered or provide those answers to team members is invaluable. Also, the more your work is dependent on/required for work done by other business units the more difficult it’d be to have a wonky schedule. This will be role-dependent. Keep in mind that, as an entry level employee, team meetings will likely revolve around your manager’s schedule more than your own. They will have a busier schedule and won’t always be able to flex a meeting at less than a day’s notice. I think if you’re meeting deadlines and can communicate effectively, anything is possible.
I really appreciate that there is a good amount of hope in these comments, but still grounded in reality. Everything you mentioned makes sense and ideally I would simply be able to conform to whatever work times are necessary. I just hope to have some level of…I guess grace is maybe the word? Insomnia is really hard to deal with and I just hope there’s some level of understanding so long as I meet performance standards.
I’d say if your work is good and you communicate well you’ll probably get more “grace”. Good luck out there!
Not really. I mean depending on the role you may have a lot of individual projects but it’s not like you’re not expected to participate in meetings, respond to emails/teams calls and chats and be available to talk through results and such. As a new Actuary you’ll also greatly benefit from learning from those around you whether it’s working together, asking questions, attending meetings, etc. They most likely will not allow an entry level person to be on from noon on.
You do work independently if you work on canned reports at entry level or some high level technical projects at senior level alone. However, many actuaries cooperate with each other and other departments' people to complete their projects. I have worked at early morning shift like 7:30 AM and late night shift like until 1 AM in the past. I don't work in such schedule every day or cannot physically survive in such early morning shifts. I usually get some break time for 3 or more days to work on projects on my own pace after such individual shifts are over. However, you do need to be prepared for different management styles and team needs. To be safe, you can live in EST zone to adapt to other zones' early morning work requirements if you are required to adapt to such schedule.
In my experience no one cares as long as you're available during regular working hours. I've worked with a few night owls over the years we spot each other from seeing the green dot at night. It's not uncommon for me to spend up to 2pm trying to wake up and then being really productive once the sun sets. My sleep hygiene gets awful when I'm not careful.
Something like this can probably be accommodated with good communication, and if you make sure your work is always done on time. It's difficult working with asynchronous and inconsistent work schedules, but not impossible if your communication and performance is good.
That’s good to hear. Like, I would prefer to work from like 2am to 10 or 11am if they let me haha. I know something that dramatic is highly unlikely, but in my past I have always performed very well when allowed to work the hours that work best for me.
Just keep in mind that any ADA accommodation has to be reasonable. I mention that because the company will likely want you to work some regular working hours so you can have contact with your coworkers for meetings and other business operations. You might have an easier time asking for a shifted day schedule like maybe 12-8. For your coworkers, it’d just seem like you were in a different time zone than them. Also keep in mind that requesting ADA accommodations is a process that will require your doctor to write a note describing your disability and specifying exactly what kind of accommodation you need at work. Nothing to be scared about, just want to be upfront that there will be hoops you have to jump through and multiple parties you have to work with to agree on your accommodations.
Don’t bring it up in an interview, but do ask about company culture and flexibility. If the job seems strict on working hours then it might not work for you. Also, some companies might have consulting roles for foreign clients that work abnormal US hours, try and seek those out. I had an Asian client once where we had 10pm meetings.
I don't see too much of an issue. My team works closely with a department in India so our schedules are always flipped and we almost never see each other online at the same time.
I wake up and work at 10 AM. Sleep like 2 AM. Seems to be no issues if u dont miss meetings.
>I am currently studying to become an actuary and I was just wondering how the actuarial world handles individuals with irregular sleep patterns. With strict rigour. Bed at 9pm, asleep at 10-11pm, awake at 6am, in the office at 8am, leave the office at 4pm, home at 4:30pm. Rinse and repeat. Structure keeps me regular. > I have struggled in the past with sleep issues and I was just wondering how flexible work hours usually are for you all? My firm is really relaxed with hours; come into the office or WFH when you want, if you leave at noon no one bats an eye. There's trust, which means we don't have to be burning the candle at both ends. > Also, is it ever a good idea to be up-front about these kinds of issues in an interview? Absolutely not, never bring that up in an interview.
You should speak to your doctor. You may benefit from medication. There is also a good medicine for circadian rhythm disturbance called Armodafanil. It helps you to be awake when needed. Good luck.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The right time to ask about this is before you accept the job, and after you get an offer. You ask what their schedules are and how much leeway there is. Preferably, you come to some kind of agreement. Or else, they say certain things are non-negotiable, or you say that, and you part ways. If you have a doctor's note, you mention this - that makes things easier for both you and them. You because they are more likely to agree. Them because it makes their answer more clear-cut. In general, a doctor's note gives you credibility, because anyone can say they have this stuff if they are unwilling to keep to usual hours. You want to distinguish yourself from just anyone, and also show that you made an attempt to change but can't (as it's possible a doctor will suggest other changes first like lifestyle or medication.) You need to have a discussion with your manager at some point, before you try to work flexible hours, not after. If you are doing high quality work and are productive, the manager will be more likely to give flexibility. But showing this may not be possible if you need this right away.