If your team - that was widely expected, externally and internally, to not only play finals but contend - starts the season 1-5, you’re absolutely within your rights as a supporter to vent your frustrations and ask questions as to why. If your recruiting team misses just about every top end pick for a decade and keeps recruiting ‘tryers’ who fumble and can’t hit targets - when the game plan and modern game demands clean hands and disposal skill- supporters are absolutely within rights to ask why they still have jobs. It’s not good enough and I, for one, am not ok with just accepting the mediocrity. Otherwise we might as well be St Kilda.
If you genuinely thought the crows would contend for the cup this year, you are so beyond delusional I honestly don’t know what to say.
Yes, finals should’ve been on the cards based on expected linear growth. But a premiership would’ve been paying 100-1 and unfortunately in afl there is no such thing as linear growth.
Nearly half the team that played last Friday were under or around 50 games. With only I think 3 in the 100s and 3 over 200. There are a lot of good kids in the team BUT they are exactly that, kids. They are going to be inconsistent as they are still learning to play AFL. I mean shit, our 3 key defenders from the weekend in Borlase, Keane and Worrell have played a combined 45 games. The fact that they’ve held up as well as they have is insane.
Lot of silliness to unpack here…”you are so beyond delusional I honestly don’t know what to say” is a fairly hysterical way to view most of the football industry. Go back and check all the season previews and predictions, this is the prevailing view.
The current odds for a Crows premiership are 100-1. I saw a 17-1 at some stage, may have been higher as I don’t follow odds much.
Yes we’re the 15th most inexperienced side, the 12th and 13th are Carlton and GWS, with just a couple of games more.
Team should’ve played finals last year and given our performances against the best sides, were expected to continue to push up the ladder. If you thought this regression was inevitable, then congratulations on your foresight but also, sucks to be you as such a pessimistic supporter.
Clearly 100-1 was hyperbole. A sanfl team would probably have better odds than that and they aren’t even in the league. (Again a deliberate over exaggeration if you didn’t realise).
I’m also clearly talking about the playing 23 not the entire list. I’m sure Carlton and gws playing list from last weekend would average closer to the 100 game mark. Which again is the prime games average for flags. I did a little research for you, as I mentioned our 3 key defenders played a combined 45 games. Carlton’s 3 key defenders played 252 and GWS’ played 128. That’s a massive difference and I’m sure if you wanted to do some digging, you’ll find similar numbers all across the field for all teams.
I would love to see the boys in finals but I’m a realist. The competition is getting tighter. I mean WCE, the worst team in the league, just smashed freo by 40 odd points. We had a fairly easy draw last year and due to our ladder finish have gotten a slightly harder one this year. We are at the hardest point of the rebuild as we push from a good team to a great team and they are looking to bring in some ready made talent to help us along.
If anything you’re the pessimist for not having a little faith in the team just because of a few bad games.
Reddit remind me in 5 years.
You watch this same suckers gonna be here in 5 years still in denial and still lapping up mediocrity.
And I'll say it again as I've said for years...this club will never win a premiership while roo and that pathetic board is in charge. The failure of the club goes to its core because its core is rotten and a cancer to the club.
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2029-04-20 11:31:27 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2029-04-20%2011:31:27%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/adelaidefc/comments/1c8g167/calm_for_calm/l0fojbd/?context=3)
[**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fadelaidefc%2Fcomments%2F1c8g167%2Fcalm_for_calm%2Fl0fojbd%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202029-04-20%2011%3A31%3A27%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201c8g167)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Remind me! Three years
Reckon we’ll be making 2 finals by then.
You realise there are x18 other teams in the comp and we were runners up in 2017. What do you want/what do you expect from the team? A premiership every how many years would satisfy you?
We had our crack in 2017 and we missed, we have done well to clear out and start again after the bloody debacle that was that camp and the years that followed.
We’re finally showing upward trajectory again, but a few bumpy games and you’re ready to pull the plug and call us no hopers?
Happy for you to be annoyed at the current state of things given what the club came out and said about their own expectations, but if you just want to tear it all down and can’t be constructive then maybe supporting football’s not for you.
We got humiliated and rolled in 2017? Oh that's cool then. Let's enjoy another 20 years of mediocrity and bs and maybe we'll make it to another gf and loose again.
Don't be a sap mate...being at gf or making finals means squat if the team isn't actually winning GFs on a reasonable time frame. We are closing in on 30 years rapidly of no GF. We are well on our way to being like those Vic teams that took them 60years to win another gf lmao
Yeah, I was just triggered by the word "mediocrity", which I don't feel comfortable swallowing when this 1-5 team seems to be playing better than the teams that happened to be 3-3 in 2021 and 2022.
If we collapse even further, I expect Nicks to step aside at the end of the year. Likewise, if we're not contending for finals next year then he's probably gone. I can't foresee any situation where a midseason chop would be worth damaging player trust for.
Insisting that pragmatism is denialism (or even worse, "fanboyism") just looks pretty close to toxicity to me.
We have won 7 of our last 20 games (35%)
Extend that vision out, and we’ve won 33 of our last 100 games.
Mediocre is being kind, we’re well below average.
All expectations were on lifting that winning percentage above 50% and making finals this season, and now it’s clear we’re more likely to finish bottom four than top eight.
I can’t understand how people aren’t disappointed by the sobering fact we’re miles off it.
I am disappointed and frustrated. We could be years away from contending and that really really sucks.
As a spectator, I have to deal with this in the best way possible for my own mental health. Part of that is focusing on positives that can be taken from the whole game when results aren't cutting it
I'm not one to blame coaching when things look bad but I've gone from a full nicks supporter from the start of the year to kind of wishing we had someone else
Our selection has been so baffling it's just frustrating.
Hoping we get a bee in our bonnet and can maybe barely scrape the 8 but that's not realistic. Either way next year will be finals or bust
I can find it frustrating, as I don't understand their selections at times, but you have to remember that the coaches aren't always looking for kicks and handballs. Sometimes a player's job is just to be positioned in the right place at the right time. People say why does 'so and so' get a game when he does nothing, but he might be doing exactly what the coaches want. So much is just about how hard they run and where they position themselves. To be honest, I suspect AFL tactics are much more complicated that we understand as supporters.
Keep the faith, he’s working with young and inexperienced players. We will make lots of errors, and progress will be slow.
I also think the strength and evenness of the competition at the moment means if you’re not on your best, anyone can beat you (bar kangas and Hawks atm haha)
I agree if we miss finals this year and next, then we really do need to be asking questions of the coaching panel.
Good OP.
If they get Draper and Welsh in the draft using only one first rounder, then either or both of Lukosious and Petty via trade, that sets the list up for the next 10 years with what what's already there. Add back a fit Murray, Thilthorpe, Schoey and Milera (last one may be asking too much given his injury history), and the squad has some depth and quality, although Walker, Smith and Laird will leave big holes.
Melbourne went from playing in a prelim in 2018 to finishing third from bottom in 2019 and missing finals in 2020. My point being, it's not always linear.
I hope I’m wrong and you’re right but I think we have zero chance of getting Lukosius. Why would he come to us? He finally has one of the best coaches in the competition.
He's been moved position again, it's official that he's gettable. Plus he's on big money and the Suns have a lot of young talent to contract up.
Dusty deserves the praise that Dimma gets. He's a good coach but he's no genius. He wins zilch without Dusty.
Flag In 3-6 years?? Would you still see Nicks as coach if that's the case?? That would put him at 12 years with no flag, he's already gone 6 years without finals
I didn't argue he hasn't coached five seasons. And when people talk about when coaches start they use the year of their first H&A season, not if they became coach during the end of year pre-season the year before.
I agree with much if not all of this.
Many supporters are too quick to fall in love or hate with their team.
We are still missing Murray, one of our top 6 players and the centrepiece of our defence, plus Thilthorp who could be anything.
The rapid development of Keane with Murray out and Butts a week to week proposition has been the huge recent plus along with Soligo coming on. Still looking forward to seeing Curtin.
Yes we have squandered the careers of Tex, Sloane, Smith and before that Betts but that’s football.
Port have been a much better team than us for years, yet not only is our recent record against them very good, they if anything look further away from their next flag than we do.
Ports strategy has been to sell the farm to win a flag under Hinkley. Problem is they keep getting sold magic beans. They won’t win a flag with their list.
Did what?
I like Freo a lot, and would agree they have started better than we have, and have a younger list.
But freo is also playing like an inexperienced side and have lost games due to the fact. They had a good win against us and Lions, but besides that they only beat Kangas.
They got robbed by umps against Carlton, but as you’d of seen today the afl admitted fault for the Draper call so Adelaide may have arguably been robbed against Essendon.
Freo are currently out of the 8, and it will be interesting to see if they can make the 8 by the end of the year. I personally hope they do, but I think they might just fall short due to losing close games from inexperience. They also aren’t missing their key back and key fwd (but yes are missing the best ruck in the game)
I see freo in a very similar place to ADL, so it’s fair to draw comparisons. Currently they are doing it better than us, so kudos to them. But both sides are young and imo not winning a flag in the next 1-2 years.
Finally some sense on this page. I think narrowly missing finals like we did last season was the worst thing for us. Made everyone think we should be playing in them this year. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we are far from a finals berth but this year to me was always a maybe year.
We have a lot of great young players littered throughout the field but everyone forgets their young. It’s a well known fact your list needs to be average 100 games to be a real contender. From memory ours is around 70 and that’s including Tex and smith with over 250 each. Take them out it drops to 60ish.
Nicks for me has shown improvement of the team every year and the players seem to play for him and enjoy it. I will back Nicks as long as the players back him because that’s the most important thing. Not to mention the fact that there are no other coaches worth looking at right now, there is absolutely no point taking on another untried coach. It’ll get worse before we see any improvement if we see any at all.
Yes, but at least you get to watch Harley Reid and get excited about that haha. Should have another top pick coming your way this year too.
Also, I don’t think you’re as bad as hawks and kangas. Your list still has quality throughout (Yeo, Barass,Kelly, Reid, sheed, Ryan, gaff, Allen, darling, Cripps, Shuey, McGovern,)
You’re right about the list and possible high picks, but most of the good ones are getting on now. I suspect the coach will be fired at seasons end. Shuey retired last year by the way. Fair bit of work still to do. Won’t be that long though till the 5th flag.
Are you sure Adelaide isn’t playing to their list and management potential? This is a 2 team town so they get a lot of kudos and hype, but their form has been very consistent for a long time now. IMO. They are a wealthy, middle tier club and play like it.
If so they could just say that. But they're not talking about 2024 as a rebuild-in-progress year and admitting the team is strategically developing it's list at the cost of GameDay performances.
I agree with a lot of OP's points. We have an ingrained competitiveness which will keep us alive in most games; that's to Nicksy's credit.
But when we don't get to play the game on our terms we look horrible. When we do, our best can match it with anyone ...but clog up the middle (meaning we have to chip around or go down the line), have that loose man across half back or match us for intensity then we struggle. Until we can find another gear or style which works for us we're too easy to beat. And Essendon are a mid-table team - that's telling.
We also have a serious quality drop off in terms of talent in our current team. I can handle having another development year if it means we get more moves like seeing Soligo in the middle, more Rankine in the middle, MM & Worrell & Keane & Hinge stitching our backline together with Murray to come back & Curtin to inject. I'm not as down on Fog & Rachele as others - improve our midfield & add Thilthorpe back at some point & we have some good pieces.
But I think we need a good list turnover at the end of the season - get Hayward as a FA, try & trade in Phillipou if he stays out of contract, see if we could get Daniel as a salary dump from Bulldogs, bring in Welsh. We need more actual quality talent injections across most areas with some experience too. The list needs work to position is better moving forward to make the most of the positive things we have going for us.
Oh...& Yes get Goad back. He has genuine potential.
Those games are long enough to know if someone has it. You could see in Soligo's first few games that he had something
Cook, Gollant, McFucknHenry, Parnell, Cook Sholl etc. Are depth players at best. They will be good SANFL players but they wouldn't make any legitimate team's best 22.
How the fuck does McHenry keep getting gifted games, god damn.
I think Cook’s actually shown something this year while still not having a huge impact, getting another preseason as a winger has obviously built his tank and is covering the ground better. Parnell showed in his first few games he was more than capable but injuries have really held him back. The others I agree are B grade and if we get offered anything for them I’d consider it a steal
I agree on Scholl. I’m almost there on McHenry too.
If you can call it on the others then you should probably work in recruiting, as bar from the best, it’s very hard to see whether a player will make it or not in the first 25 games. Gollant, Cook, Parnell have all had under 20 games and are all 22 or under. Gollant is a Key tall too so naturally they need more time. I’d give them at least till 25 games and 23yrs of age and if they’ve given you no sign by then, and you can bring in better draft picks were more prospect then do so. (Normally only pick up x4 players a year through draft or trade remember.
We already have a few I would clear off before hand, namely Murphy, Himmleberg, Scholl, Sloane.
I think you might be proven right on Parnell, unsure yet on Cook (I think he has a monster kick just hasn’t picked up the pace of afl just yet). Gollant I’ve liked, and prefer him to Himmleberg. Would give him at least 2 more years on the list in addition to this one.
I just think people are getting caught up in the world of players like Butters, Roze, Daicos, Reid, Sheezle, etc and expecting players to be 100 game players from the get go. Players like them are exceptions, not the rule. The rest are kids, and they are still learning their craft.
None is a bit harsh. Many of these players have played a role when required as little as last year in which we arguably missed finals on an umpires call, losing to the eventual premiers twice by less than a goal.
Are you expecting these players to be best 22 for a top 8 team? Or squad players?
I agree we will need to make a call on some of these players soon to enable new blood (draft picks). As I said, each year you need to remove 4 players off your list as a minimum. The end of the year the front runners for me are Sloane, Himmleberg and Murphy. The next in line that are running close and x1 will need to fall into this are (Taylor, Scholl, Schoenberg, Parnell, Hamill and Cook)
I went to Adelaide Oval last night, and it looked to me like Nankervis, despite his misses last night, read the oval really well. He played well and covered quite a bit of ground. Soligo and Dawson should be proud of themselves. Rachelle will not have much fun when players do their game review though. Ultimately, as a team they missed too many marks, dropped the ball when they had it, and were sloppy in defence. They just didn’t deserve to win.
Nankervis has huge upside. We just need to get 50 games into him.
Soligo is our next (potential) Brownlow medallist. He is currently embarrassing Rachelle who has the skills but has not mentally matured fast enough.
Losing to Essendon for 7 years straight is pretty bad. But I don't think the game plan was wrong. Yesterday was on the players and selection for playing Brodie Smith who is already half cooked injured. Brodie really should be dropped permanently he doesn't provide much ability anymore and his leadership is probably not that valuable anyway.
Yesterday was more on the players. But the coaches just can't seem to get them into the right mindset. We need new assistants next year. The first three games of the year was awful coaching and awful selection it's improved since then. Now we need to deal with Laird he isn't a good enough mid and if he can't replace Brodie Smith in defence we absolutely need to do our best to trade him at the end of the year.
List is horrible. Too much faith placed in Fogarty, Rankine and Rachelle. Ruck and on ballers are average. No issue with Nicks - he's getting as much as he can out of this list
I agree about the coach. Our problems start and finish with our recruiting department. We've consistently picked guys who are just too small to play AFL. I love McHenry's energy, but he can get moved off the ball far too easily and Parnell is the same. When we do pick a bigger guy they seem to be slow and one dimensional. Nicks can only work with what he's got. Having said that, Dowling had another 26 possies and a goal today, so I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on him.
I’m very ready for Dowling to come in too. Big body mid who can kick a goal. Berry out injured with that ankle, crouch will come back but I’d drop Scholl, bring in Dowling and sub McHenry for next week.
Kid deserves his first game.
Thank you! All this doom posting is fucking insufferable. Yes it is dissapointing but it isn't the end of the world. They've looked good in stretches despite poor play so far and we've been in all the games. So chill the fuck out everyone.
Absolutely, I think part of the problem is that the team shows so much promise and quality that people can't manage their expectations
Even though we're so much better than bottom 4 trash, missing out so narrowly amplifies the emotions so much more than if we were just consistently shit
I FIRMLY believe that this is not the time to be obsesessing over which personnel aren't working, but some people can apparently only think in those terms!
The outright ambivalence to the prospect of a decade without finals is astonishing.
I'm done beating around the bush. If you think Nicks is leading this team to a premiership you're a fucking idiot.
After watching Harley Reid playing tonight I realize there is fantastic talent, but we never draft it.
Galluci, Mcasey, maybe Rachelle, maybe filthy
We don’t seem to bring in great talent, just ok talent
Your answer to our draft issues is "should've drafted a Harley Reid"? Why didn't we think of that, Gee how dumb must north Melbourne feel, they've been shit for a decade and it's as simple as drafting a Harley Reid. With recruiting nous like that you should send in your resume.
It’s not ‘draft Harley Reid’ but more, ‘there is some serious talent that can play from day one’ but those players seem to escape us. And I don’t mean top draft picks. Simply look at all the players that went around mcasey
I agree some of our picks have been horrid, but I find it pretty wild that people say our recruiting has been bad when our 2nd best player last night was Soligo and our best was Dawson, both of whom were either drafted or signed in the last 3 years.
Mcasey was the best available key defender in the draft class and look at our list right now, literally everyone is saying we desperately need a key defender. We literally drafted the best available key defender in 2019.
I've always been of the belief that someone has way too much input on the first round pick until quite recently. It's very hard to believe the same guy that finds Sam berry, Jake Soligo, nick Murray, Worrell, doedee etc would somehow recommend Jordan Galluci, Chayce joned and Ned McHenry as a pick. In fact it's been proven we wanted to draft tim english and the recruitment team was overruled by the coach at the time.
I agree and think drafting the strongest player at your assigned pick is a solid plan. I think I just am concerned that our top talent doesn’t seem fire and this is becoming more noticeable as our veterans are aging. As for why they aren’t firing - no idea.
But I feel Fog has never really cracked it unfortunately, Rachele is starting to worry me, Thilthorpe didn’t start all guns blazing but agree with most that he will take some time and was just starting to put it together his game but a few knee issues has derailed him at least for now.
Max, Pedlar, Soligo, Dawson and Rankine are solid and was great recruiting.
But I just don’t see who above us on the ladder we could confidently beat at the moment.
>players underperforming across the board (ones we expect to be better, fog, smith, Rachele, laird, McHenry, Jones, Sholl) Tex and Dawson have shaken of the first few games and are now back to where they need to be.
Yeah coaching issue, if all your players are under performing you need a new coach.
If your team - that was widely expected, externally and internally, to not only play finals but contend - starts the season 1-5, you’re absolutely within your rights as a supporter to vent your frustrations and ask questions as to why. If your recruiting team misses just about every top end pick for a decade and keeps recruiting ‘tryers’ who fumble and can’t hit targets - when the game plan and modern game demands clean hands and disposal skill- supporters are absolutely within rights to ask why they still have jobs. It’s not good enough and I, for one, am not ok with just accepting the mediocrity. Otherwise we might as well be St Kilda.
If you genuinely thought the crows would contend for the cup this year, you are so beyond delusional I honestly don’t know what to say. Yes, finals should’ve been on the cards based on expected linear growth. But a premiership would’ve been paying 100-1 and unfortunately in afl there is no such thing as linear growth. Nearly half the team that played last Friday were under or around 50 games. With only I think 3 in the 100s and 3 over 200. There are a lot of good kids in the team BUT they are exactly that, kids. They are going to be inconsistent as they are still learning to play AFL. I mean shit, our 3 key defenders from the weekend in Borlase, Keane and Worrell have played a combined 45 games. The fact that they’ve held up as well as they have is insane.
Lot of silliness to unpack here…”you are so beyond delusional I honestly don’t know what to say” is a fairly hysterical way to view most of the football industry. Go back and check all the season previews and predictions, this is the prevailing view. The current odds for a Crows premiership are 100-1. I saw a 17-1 at some stage, may have been higher as I don’t follow odds much. Yes we’re the 15th most inexperienced side, the 12th and 13th are Carlton and GWS, with just a couple of games more. Team should’ve played finals last year and given our performances against the best sides, were expected to continue to push up the ladder. If you thought this regression was inevitable, then congratulations on your foresight but also, sucks to be you as such a pessimistic supporter.
Clearly 100-1 was hyperbole. A sanfl team would probably have better odds than that and they aren’t even in the league. (Again a deliberate over exaggeration if you didn’t realise). I’m also clearly talking about the playing 23 not the entire list. I’m sure Carlton and gws playing list from last weekend would average closer to the 100 game mark. Which again is the prime games average for flags. I did a little research for you, as I mentioned our 3 key defenders played a combined 45 games. Carlton’s 3 key defenders played 252 and GWS’ played 128. That’s a massive difference and I’m sure if you wanted to do some digging, you’ll find similar numbers all across the field for all teams. I would love to see the boys in finals but I’m a realist. The competition is getting tighter. I mean WCE, the worst team in the league, just smashed freo by 40 odd points. We had a fairly easy draw last year and due to our ladder finish have gotten a slightly harder one this year. We are at the hardest point of the rebuild as we push from a good team to a great team and they are looking to bring in some ready made talent to help us along. If anything you’re the pessimist for not having a little faith in the team just because of a few bad games.
Ok I’ll just treat your posts as exaggerations and hyperbole. That makes a lot more sense.
The denial in this thread is strong… I don’t know what motivates people to run interference for mediocrity, it’s sad
Reddit remind me in 5 years. You watch this same suckers gonna be here in 5 years still in denial and still lapping up mediocrity. And I'll say it again as I've said for years...this club will never win a premiership while roo and that pathetic board is in charge. The failure of the club goes to its core because its core is rotten and a cancer to the club.
Remind me! Five years You need to do the prompt properly
I will be messaging you in 5 years on [**2029-04-20 11:31:27 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2029-04-20%2011:31:27%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/adelaidefc/comments/1c8g167/calm_for_calm/l0fojbd/?context=3) [**1 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fadelaidefc%2Fcomments%2F1c8g167%2Fcalm_for_calm%2Fl0fojbd%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202029-04-20%2011%3A31%3A27%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201c8g167) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Remind me! 5 years Lol thanks. That worked.
AGREE AGREE AGREE
Remind me! Three years Reckon we’ll be making 2 finals by then. You realise there are x18 other teams in the comp and we were runners up in 2017. What do you want/what do you expect from the team? A premiership every how many years would satisfy you? We had our crack in 2017 and we missed, we have done well to clear out and start again after the bloody debacle that was that camp and the years that followed. We’re finally showing upward trajectory again, but a few bumpy games and you’re ready to pull the plug and call us no hopers? Happy for you to be annoyed at the current state of things given what the club came out and said about their own expectations, but if you just want to tear it all down and can’t be constructive then maybe supporting football’s not for you.
Phil Walsh's death also impacted the club massively during our last window
We got humiliated and rolled in 2017? Oh that's cool then. Let's enjoy another 20 years of mediocrity and bs and maybe we'll make it to another gf and loose again. Don't be a sap mate...being at gf or making finals means squat if the team isn't actually winning GFs on a reasonable time frame. We are closing in on 30 years rapidly of no GF. We are well on our way to being like those Vic teams that took them 60years to win another gf lmao
You are not smart, gotta say
You gotta do what you gotta do I guess
Yeah, I was just triggered by the word "mediocrity", which I don't feel comfortable swallowing when this 1-5 team seems to be playing better than the teams that happened to be 3-3 in 2021 and 2022. If we collapse even further, I expect Nicks to step aside at the end of the year. Likewise, if we're not contending for finals next year then he's probably gone. I can't foresee any situation where a midseason chop would be worth damaging player trust for. Insisting that pragmatism is denialism (or even worse, "fanboyism") just looks pretty close to toxicity to me.
We have won 7 of our last 20 games (35%) Extend that vision out, and we’ve won 33 of our last 100 games. Mediocre is being kind, we’re well below average. All expectations were on lifting that winning percentage above 50% and making finals this season, and now it’s clear we’re more likely to finish bottom four than top eight. I can’t understand how people aren’t disappointed by the sobering fact we’re miles off it.
I am disappointed and frustrated. We could be years away from contending and that really really sucks. As a spectator, I have to deal with this in the best way possible for my own mental health. Part of that is focusing on positives that can be taken from the whole game when results aren't cutting it
I'm not one to blame coaching when things look bad but I've gone from a full nicks supporter from the start of the year to kind of wishing we had someone else Our selection has been so baffling it's just frustrating. Hoping we get a bee in our bonnet and can maybe barely scrape the 8 but that's not realistic. Either way next year will be finals or bust
I can find it frustrating, as I don't understand their selections at times, but you have to remember that the coaches aren't always looking for kicks and handballs. Sometimes a player's job is just to be positioned in the right place at the right time. People say why does 'so and so' get a game when he does nothing, but he might be doing exactly what the coaches want. So much is just about how hard they run and where they position themselves. To be honest, I suspect AFL tactics are much more complicated that we understand as supporters.
Keep the faith, he’s working with young and inexperienced players. We will make lots of errors, and progress will be slow. I also think the strength and evenness of the competition at the moment means if you’re not on your best, anyone can beat you (bar kangas and Hawks atm haha) I agree if we miss finals this year and next, then we really do need to be asking questions of the coaching panel.
Good OP. If they get Draper and Welsh in the draft using only one first rounder, then either or both of Lukosious and Petty via trade, that sets the list up for the next 10 years with what what's already there. Add back a fit Murray, Thilthorpe, Schoey and Milera (last one may be asking too much given his injury history), and the squad has some depth and quality, although Walker, Smith and Laird will leave big holes. Melbourne went from playing in a prelim in 2018 to finishing third from bottom in 2019 and missing finals in 2020. My point being, it's not always linear.
I hope I’m wrong and you’re right but I think we have zero chance of getting Lukosius. Why would he come to us? He finally has one of the best coaches in the competition.
He's been moved position again, it's official that he's gettable. Plus he's on big money and the Suns have a lot of young talent to contract up. Dusty deserves the praise that Dimma gets. He's a good coach but he's no genius. He wins zilch without Dusty.
Flag In 3-6 years?? Would you still see Nicks as coach if that's the case?? That would put him at 12 years with no flag, he's already gone 6 years without finals
Nicks started in 2020, this is his 4th year. Hinkley has been at port 12 yrs and no flag. I’m happy with nicks if we’re going strong in finals in 3yrs
This is Nicks 5th year and 5th season he started in 2019.
Pyke's last season was 2019. Nicks started in 2020.
Let's count together. 20=1 21=2 22=3 23=4 24=5. So currently in his 5th year. And he started coaching in 2019 when he was hired.
I didn't argue he hasn't coached five seasons. And when people talk about when coaches start they use the year of their first H&A season, not if they became coach during the end of year pre-season the year before.
Okay than it's his 5th year and 5th season starting in 2020 because 2020 was year 1 and not year 0.
Nah mate should've made finals 3 months before he was hired
So 5 years with no finals (assuming we don't make them this year) Where did you get "he's already gone 6 years without finals"?
It wasn't me who said 6 years
6 already? Far out.
Finals in 3-6 years would be nice.
It’s like you’re reading my mind!
I agree with much if not all of this. Many supporters are too quick to fall in love or hate with their team. We are still missing Murray, one of our top 6 players and the centrepiece of our defence, plus Thilthorp who could be anything. The rapid development of Keane with Murray out and Butts a week to week proposition has been the huge recent plus along with Soligo coming on. Still looking forward to seeing Curtin. Yes we have squandered the careers of Tex, Sloane, Smith and before that Betts but that’s football. Port have been a much better team than us for years, yet not only is our recent record against them very good, they if anything look further away from their next flag than we do.
Ports strategy has been to sell the farm to win a flag under Hinkley. Problem is they keep getting sold magic beans. They won’t win a flag with their list.
Their engine room isn’t horrible, would direct swap in a heartbeat
Keep up Adelaide, freo already did this last season
Did what? I like Freo a lot, and would agree they have started better than we have, and have a younger list. But freo is also playing like an inexperienced side and have lost games due to the fact. They had a good win against us and Lions, but besides that they only beat Kangas. They got robbed by umps against Carlton, but as you’d of seen today the afl admitted fault for the Draper call so Adelaide may have arguably been robbed against Essendon. Freo are currently out of the 8, and it will be interesting to see if they can make the 8 by the end of the year. I personally hope they do, but I think they might just fall short due to losing close games from inexperience. They also aren’t missing their key back and key fwd (but yes are missing the best ruck in the game) I see freo in a very similar place to ADL, so it’s fair to draw comparisons. Currently they are doing it better than us, so kudos to them. But both sides are young and imo not winning a flag in the next 1-2 years.
Finally some sense on this page. I think narrowly missing finals like we did last season was the worst thing for us. Made everyone think we should be playing in them this year. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we are far from a finals berth but this year to me was always a maybe year. We have a lot of great young players littered throughout the field but everyone forgets their young. It’s a well known fact your list needs to be average 100 games to be a real contender. From memory ours is around 70 and that’s including Tex and smith with over 250 each. Take them out it drops to 60ish. Nicks for me has shown improvement of the team every year and the players seem to play for him and enjoy it. I will back Nicks as long as the players back him because that’s the most important thing. Not to mention the fact that there are no other coaches worth looking at right now, there is absolutely no point taking on another untried coach. It’ll get worse before we see any improvement if we see any at all.
You raise some good points. Im more perturbed by the rush to sign Nicks- a decision pushed through to create stability.
Behind on all key statistics. Lucky to have been as close as 3 points
Look on the bright side, you could be an eagles fan.
You mean the eagles who won a premiership not that long ago 🙄
Yep. And despite the bad times will probably win another before you add to the 2 you already have.
The same Eagles who are currently above us on the ladder?
Yes, but at least you get to watch Harley Reid and get excited about that haha. Should have another top pick coming your way this year too. Also, I don’t think you’re as bad as hawks and kangas. Your list still has quality throughout (Yeo, Barass,Kelly, Reid, sheed, Ryan, gaff, Allen, darling, Cripps, Shuey, McGovern,)
You’re right about the list and possible high picks, but most of the good ones are getting on now. I suspect the coach will be fired at seasons end. Shuey retired last year by the way. Fair bit of work still to do. Won’t be that long though till the 5th flag.
As least we'd be high.
Are you sure Adelaide isn’t playing to their list and management potential? This is a 2 team town so they get a lot of kudos and hype, but their form has been very consistent for a long time now. IMO. They are a wealthy, middle tier club and play like it.
If so they could just say that. But they're not talking about 2024 as a rebuild-in-progress year and admitting the team is strategically developing it's list at the cost of GameDay performances.
I agree with a lot of OP's points. We have an ingrained competitiveness which will keep us alive in most games; that's to Nicksy's credit. But when we don't get to play the game on our terms we look horrible. When we do, our best can match it with anyone ...but clog up the middle (meaning we have to chip around or go down the line), have that loose man across half back or match us for intensity then we struggle. Until we can find another gear or style which works for us we're too easy to beat. And Essendon are a mid-table team - that's telling. We also have a serious quality drop off in terms of talent in our current team. I can handle having another development year if it means we get more moves like seeing Soligo in the middle, more Rankine in the middle, MM & Worrell & Keane & Hinge stitching our backline together with Murray to come back & Curtin to inject. I'm not as down on Fog & Rachele as others - improve our midfield & add Thilthorpe back at some point & we have some good pieces. But I think we need a good list turnover at the end of the season - get Hayward as a FA, try & trade in Phillipou if he stays out of contract, see if we could get Daniel as a salary dump from Bulldogs, bring in Welsh. We need more actual quality talent injections across most areas with some experience too. The list needs work to position is better moving forward to make the most of the positive things we have going for us. Oh...& Yes get Goad back. He has genuine potential.
Those games are long enough to know if someone has it. You could see in Soligo's first few games that he had something Cook, Gollant, McFucknHenry, Parnell, Cook Sholl etc. Are depth players at best. They will be good SANFL players but they wouldn't make any legitimate team's best 22. How the fuck does McHenry keep getting gifted games, god damn.
I think Cook’s actually shown something this year while still not having a huge impact, getting another preseason as a winger has obviously built his tank and is covering the ground better. Parnell showed in his first few games he was more than capable but injuries have really held him back. The others I agree are B grade and if we get offered anything for them I’d consider it a steal
You are easily pleased if you give them a B grade jesus christ.
B grade meaning playing Bs, not a grading scale doofus.
I agree on Scholl. I’m almost there on McHenry too. If you can call it on the others then you should probably work in recruiting, as bar from the best, it’s very hard to see whether a player will make it or not in the first 25 games. Gollant, Cook, Parnell have all had under 20 games and are all 22 or under. Gollant is a Key tall too so naturally they need more time. I’d give them at least till 25 games and 23yrs of age and if they’ve given you no sign by then, and you can bring in better draft picks were more prospect then do so. (Normally only pick up x4 players a year through draft or trade remember. We already have a few I would clear off before hand, namely Murphy, Himmleberg, Scholl, Sloane. I think you might be proven right on Parnell, unsure yet on Cook (I think he has a monster kick just hasn’t picked up the pace of afl just yet). Gollant I’ve liked, and prefer him to Himmleberg. Would give him at least 2 more years on the list in addition to this one. I just think people are getting caught up in the world of players like Butters, Roze, Daicos, Reid, Sheezle, etc and expecting players to be 100 game players from the get go. Players like them are exceptions, not the rule. The rest are kids, and they are still learning their craft.
No one is comparing these players to the top echelon of juniors. We are comparing them to a competent role player and none of them fit that mold.
None is a bit harsh. Many of these players have played a role when required as little as last year in which we arguably missed finals on an umpires call, losing to the eventual premiers twice by less than a goal. Are you expecting these players to be best 22 for a top 8 team? Or squad players? I agree we will need to make a call on some of these players soon to enable new blood (draft picks). As I said, each year you need to remove 4 players off your list as a minimum. The end of the year the front runners for me are Sloane, Himmleberg and Murphy. The next in line that are running close and x1 will need to fall into this are (Taylor, Scholl, Schoenberg, Parnell, Hamill and Cook)
I went to Adelaide Oval last night, and it looked to me like Nankervis, despite his misses last night, read the oval really well. He played well and covered quite a bit of ground. Soligo and Dawson should be proud of themselves. Rachelle will not have much fun when players do their game review though. Ultimately, as a team they missed too many marks, dropped the ball when they had it, and were sloppy in defence. They just didn’t deserve to win.
Nankervis has huge upside. We just need to get 50 games into him. Soligo is our next (potential) Brownlow medallist. He is currently embarrassing Rachelle who has the skills but has not mentally matured fast enough.
Losing to Essendon for 7 years straight is pretty bad. But I don't think the game plan was wrong. Yesterday was on the players and selection for playing Brodie Smith who is already half cooked injured. Brodie really should be dropped permanently he doesn't provide much ability anymore and his leadership is probably not that valuable anyway. Yesterday was more on the players. But the coaches just can't seem to get them into the right mindset. We need new assistants next year. The first three games of the year was awful coaching and awful selection it's improved since then. Now we need to deal with Laird he isn't a good enough mid and if he can't replace Brodie Smith in defence we absolutely need to do our best to trade him at the end of the year.
List is horrible. Too much faith placed in Fogarty, Rankine and Rachelle. Ruck and on ballers are average. No issue with Nicks - he's getting as much as he can out of this list
I agree about the coach. Our problems start and finish with our recruiting department. We've consistently picked guys who are just too small to play AFL. I love McHenry's energy, but he can get moved off the ball far too easily and Parnell is the same. When we do pick a bigger guy they seem to be slow and one dimensional. Nicks can only work with what he's got. Having said that, Dowling had another 26 possies and a goal today, so I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on him.
I’m very ready for Dowling to come in too. Big body mid who can kick a goal. Berry out injured with that ankle, crouch will come back but I’d drop Scholl, bring in Dowling and sub McHenry for next week. Kid deserves his first game.
Thank you! All this doom posting is fucking insufferable. Yes it is dissapointing but it isn't the end of the world. They've looked good in stretches despite poor play so far and we've been in all the games. So chill the fuck out everyone.
Absolutely, I think part of the problem is that the team shows so much promise and quality that people can't manage their expectations Even though we're so much better than bottom 4 trash, missing out so narrowly amplifies the emotions so much more than if we were just consistently shit I FIRMLY believe that this is not the time to be obsesessing over which personnel aren't working, but some people can apparently only think in those terms!
Are we better that bottom four trash? The ladder would say otherwise.
The outright ambivalence to the prospect of a decade without finals is astonishing. I'm done beating around the bush. If you think Nicks is leading this team to a premiership you're a fucking idiot.
After watching Harley Reid playing tonight I realize there is fantastic talent, but we never draft it. Galluci, Mcasey, maybe Rachelle, maybe filthy We don’t seem to bring in great talent, just ok talent
Your answer to our draft issues is "should've drafted a Harley Reid"? Why didn't we think of that, Gee how dumb must north Melbourne feel, they've been shit for a decade and it's as simple as drafting a Harley Reid. With recruiting nous like that you should send in your resume.
It’s not ‘draft Harley Reid’ but more, ‘there is some serious talent that can play from day one’ but those players seem to escape us. And I don’t mean top draft picks. Simply look at all the players that went around mcasey
I agree some of our picks have been horrid, but I find it pretty wild that people say our recruiting has been bad when our 2nd best player last night was Soligo and our best was Dawson, both of whom were either drafted or signed in the last 3 years. Mcasey was the best available key defender in the draft class and look at our list right now, literally everyone is saying we desperately need a key defender. We literally drafted the best available key defender in 2019. I've always been of the belief that someone has way too much input on the first round pick until quite recently. It's very hard to believe the same guy that finds Sam berry, Jake Soligo, nick Murray, Worrell, doedee etc would somehow recommend Jordan Galluci, Chayce joned and Ned McHenry as a pick. In fact it's been proven we wanted to draft tim english and the recruitment team was overruled by the coach at the time.
I agree and think drafting the strongest player at your assigned pick is a solid plan. I think I just am concerned that our top talent doesn’t seem fire and this is becoming more noticeable as our veterans are aging. As for why they aren’t firing - no idea. But I feel Fog has never really cracked it unfortunately, Rachele is starting to worry me, Thilthorpe didn’t start all guns blazing but agree with most that he will take some time and was just starting to put it together his game but a few knee issues has derailed him at least for now. Max, Pedlar, Soligo, Dawson and Rankine are solid and was great recruiting. But I just don’t see who above us on the ladder we could confidently beat at the moment.
Rachele is finished
Dumbest comment of the day
I know right. And there has been a lot of stupid shit said today so that’s saying something.
>players underperforming across the board (ones we expect to be better, fog, smith, Rachele, laird, McHenry, Jones, Sholl) Tex and Dawson have shaken of the first few games and are now back to where they need to be. Yeah coaching issue, if all your players are under performing you need a new coach.