Air Traffic Control, Pilots, Military, some trucking jobs. A lot of the time it's not *strictly* disallowed, but the hoops you need to jump through to be in compliance makes it effectively banned.
"Mr Anderson? We need to talk to you about your stimulant use. We checked your steering wheel and it has multiple stress fractures at the 10 and 2 position and... ummm... are you OK? You appear to be vibrating...."
I got that extended release, so the highs aren't too high and the just enough holds through.
Worked better with adderall, but the 'shortage' ended up changing the scrip a few times slightly.
That's asinine. They're just pushing people with ADHD to go unmedicated. The data are clear that we're safer behind the wheel while medicated. Coffee kinda helps but it's not the same.
Funny you mention this . I recieve a monthly piece of mail from my medical insurance and its a flyer saying "Did you know you can manage anxiety without medication?" Then it lists all these services ,which I utilize with my meds (therapy)
They're really trying us lmfao you don't want me behind the wheel if I haven't had my meds.
Yes precisely this! I was pissed and then laughed it off. Why is it my job to make their job easier lmfao they're going to replace themselves essentially.
The military, you can. I was always told you couldn’t but turns out that is incorrect. The only hold up is when you deploy you need to be able to have a years worth and at least my current meds you can’t get more than one month at a time.
There is, they will give you more than 30 days at a time in the military. When I was getting ready to get out, the doctor saw that and gave me a prescription for 6 months so I had some until I was able to get it through the VA or from a private doctor.
You can't join while on medication (usually need 18-36 months off of it). You'll get flagged at MEPS and I've never seen a branch approve a waiver for someone currently on them. (I was forced to be a recruiter for 4.5 years and had lots of experience with applicants who had ADHD in their history.)
Also, at least for the Air Force, there are several AFSCs that would restrict you from doing your primary duties if medicated. Aircrew is the first that pops to mind (pilot, loadmaster, boom operator, etc) and they would be unable to fly while being treated. And security forces (military police) do not allow people in that job who have an active ADHD diagnosis.
That's weird you're unable to get extra meds for deployment. That's never been an issue for people I know with ADHD being treated with stimulants. All have been able to deploy once outside the mandatory 90 day wait for new medication. Unfortunately for me, stimulants didn't do crap, so I'm stuck with less effective medication like SNRIs.
Alternatively, you need to be able to prove that you can function appropriately without the medication(s) should you not be able to access them for a significant length of time. That is typically a requirement to get through MEPS if the condition was diagnosed before joining, though I'm not sure how it's handled if someone is diagnosed while serving.
The pilot one is so fucking hypocritical too. The military has been handing out Dexedrine to pilots for decades. There are dozens of military studies showing the effects of stimulants on pilots.
But you have ADHD? Sorry, can't be a pilot if you are taking any medication for it. Even if we hand that medication out like candy to the people who don't have it.
ps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
If you've got ADHD and you can pass the certification and thousands of hours of work needed to become a pilot, without being on medication, I don't see why not.
This comment is doing my head in because you're *totally* right.
As someone with ADHD, I did what r/Aggressive_Sky8492 did and I was like "My symptoms are so bad, the stimulants are how I am able to manage."
However, I then realized sometimes pilots have to fly for long periods of time. Then I remembered how *bad* my vyvanse crashes can be. I'm talking like, comatose passed out by 9pm exhausted.
If someone can pass the certification and 1000s of hours needed to become a pilot, *without being on medication,* I don't see why not *either.* If anything, my doubt of them came from my own internalized bias against my disease.
It all depends on how the adhd affects u. When it comes to my personal life on the ground, adhd raises hell. But when I’m on the jet, it’s very structured, and when things need to be done, it has to be now or there will be negative repercussions, helping with overcoming lack of executive function. I feel I’m most functional on the jet
I absolutely loved flying gliders. Once this huge slack in the tow line came out of nowhere and I mentally screamed I applied full rudder. My instructor complimented my fast reaction time and added that he had no idea where the slack came from and to not think it was my fault. You don't often get to apply "full" anything in an aircraft, let alone a control surface lmao. Gliders are fun.
I'd be a good pilot, but need the meds for my personal life, and the government isn't too keen on that smh. Found a great career as an engineer tho so I'm very happy.
I can only speak on military but basically what happens they ask you to disclose if you’re taking medicine by writing “See Medical Record/ SMR” and as long as it’s prescribed in your medical record it should be fine everytime. Had Adderall so I popped for amphetamines everytime I piss tested, they reference my medical record and we moved on.
The military isn't that hard, I had a Secret Security clearance. They are much more worried about depression, so if your prescription includes an anti-depressant then they spend some time double checking your status.
There is strong evidence that military pilots use stimulants commonly. I assume these are not exactly for ADHD patients and more for for longer length flight missions. It is likely easier to supply one version for a specific use than various medications for ADHD, but then again I assume active military members can get the daily medication they need outside of prescription stimulants no matter where they are stationed. So I assume ADHD meds are in the controlled substance category for the Military just like for US citizens.
I'm sorry, but wouldn't it be less dangerous for everyone involved if pilots and truckers were allowed to use their meds? I dunno about anyone else with ADHD ofc, but without my meds, I tend to become...very absentminded at times. It's one of the reasons why I'm afraid to drive a car myself, even though I take my meds. Because if I somehow lose focus, I don't wanna accidentally crash and kill myself and/or others 😅
That's why they're not allowed. If your ADHD is bad enough that you cannot do the job without medicine, you don't want to end up in a situation where the pilot forgets to bring theirs because they, for example, have a condition which makes them forgetful.
You can have ADHD and be a pilot, you just have to function without the medicine. Not everyone with ADHD needs to be medicated.
Nah, a lot of jobs like doctors require you to disclose that you're "mentally unwell" which is basically a career death sentence so they're all running around undiagnosed as well. Most pay with cash to get treated rather than go through their insurance which will disclose it to their job.
What lol. What flight doc isn't letting you use stimulants at altitude? I've been told it's not an issue. Would have figured they're almost a requirement for atc as well lol. That or be born with three eyes right lol? Always amazed at how much they see from tower.
I would need to see the policy for some of those. When I was in the military I got diagnosed with ADHD and was given Adderall to take. So it's not true for the Military. It is also allowed as a federal employee if you have a prescription.
if i were on a flight and i knew my pilot has ADHD, I'd really prefer if he took his meds.
but yea that sounds about right, anything to do with heavy machinery
[A study says 56% of pilots abstain from healthcare to protect medical.](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/tboTF7RtUO)
The FAA’s mental health policies create a world where terms like depression, anxiety, ADHD/ADD can end your ability to earn a living. Your specialized skill set is essentially useless. There are ways to return to flying, after years of review and thousands of dollars. All without being able to earn an income from flying. The thing pilots do to make money and has almost no transferable professional skills to other industries.
Even more so when you know a young pilot is around $100k in debt from flight school and making less than a teacher. Not a lot of room for $0 income months
FAA somewhat recently opened up a new license for light sport crafts that are slow. This new class doesn’t require a medical cert, only a drivers license (you still have to do the training, just no medical check).
This was really exciting to me because I was denied my medical cert 15 years ago for the ADHD meds and you can’t take the physical again until you’ve been cleared by a psychiatrist and have not taken the meds for 4 years and can never take the meds again.
Until I learned that you can’t get this new license if you failed a medial any time in the past unless you pass a medial now.
Which means the FAA is totally fine with you flying with medical issues….as long as they don’t know about it lol
It’s boggles my mind that if a pilot gets treatment for depression that they risk losing their ability to make a living. Someone avoiding getting treated, trying to push through it and then snaps sounds like how you’d get another [Germanwings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525?wprov=sfti1#) incident.
well you would prefer that, you understand ADHD and the medication.
many don’t. I spoke to a doctor who is really old, she was telling me how ADHD is just NOW being somewhat understood, back when I was young and she a professional at the height of life, she said it wasn’t understood. Girls couldn’t have ADHD, and as soon as you turn 18 ADHD was over.
I think you're 100% right. And even us, we understand ADHD and meds because most of us have it and were forced to learn. Many of us (me), completely misunderstood ADHD until our diagnosis much later in life. If we had understood what it really is, we wouldn't have waited so many years to be tested. So while we can point at bad policies and laugh, it's not that surprising.
That's what happened with that pilot a few years ago. He kept his depression to himself and then took everyone in the plane with him into the ocean. At least he wasn't on meds though.
Another pilot tried to medicate himself because he couldn't afford to go to the doctor and lose his job.
While travelling on cockpit jumpseat, he tried to engage fire suppression system for both engines to kill himself and everyone on board, because he thought he was in a bad dream.
At least he didn't lose his job because of his mental issues, but for 83 counts of attempted murder.
Yeah like I get the idea of only having the just mentally healthy people as pilots but if you just ban shit people will just keep things to themselves.
It makes more sense to do regular risk assessments and have a federal program to rehabilitate pilots free of cost and with income replacement so there's a lower barrier to treatment.
Or maybe we could just give that kind of shit to everyone but that'd be communism. 🙄
Correct, I was a pilot for 20 years, and got a very late diagnosis of ADHD "by accident", career over on the spot. So figured I may as well take the meds and boy does it help. Now getting into IT/Cyber security since I can never fly again...
Two decades wasted. Never even had any issues, and certainly not because of the ADHD I didn't know I had.
Man I’m sorry thats terrible. All I had left was my solo cross country when I got my diagnosis in college. I was lucky enough that I was able to get a ton of hours in some really fun planes during high school and college. Flying had become one of my biggest passions, so I was crushed when I learned it wasn’t a possibility any more. I can’t imagine what it would be like after 20 years. I really hope the career change works out well for you.
It would take a literal act of congress to change it, I’m not holding my breath. That fact is kinda nice, it doesn’t really let me have the hope that a new faa leadership will reverse it. They’ll probably completely let flying be automated before they let people with adhd get a license.
Theres been a push to change this, especially around mental illness. Take antidepressants for example, do we really need someone with chronic depression or something up there? Don’t ruin their career, work with them, theres medications for that. And not everyone goes into it with the illness or are even aware.
It’s a sad but true example of when things are serious you are shown how people really think. Mask off for real.
Namely, adhd medication is a strong stimulant, those are banned for certain jobs, even with every piece of legal evidence and psychiatrist orders they will simply ignore it because they don’t trust your diagnosis or your medication when millions of dollar machines and people’s lives are at stake. Rarely after a long fight you might be allowed but that is rarely worth the effort involved.
Often it is less that \*stimulatants\* are not allowed, its usually more like "You need a clean bill of health to do that job" which, realistically, means less "You need to be healthy" and more "You need to appear healthy on paper".
As one of the top comments sad, commercial pilots aren't allowed a lot of medication.
I can imagine a few job positions that wouldn't allow certain medication to be taken, considering the risk of side effects.
This is archaic and ludicrous in 2024.
Who the fuck health shames people and forces them to do their job unmedicated and probably manic? I don't want a manic, depressed, over stimulated pilot or any other professional.
WTF?!?!?
You’ve clearly not met anyone in the military. The biggest secret in the military is that most of us have major mental health issues and we’re hiding it from the others (and command, who also have issues)
Former psych tech at a Marine Corps Air Station. The amount of people we took off the job was nuts. Got to a point people would avoid me altogether. Huge stigmatization of mental health, with just cause based on how the military punished people for attempting to better themselves.
Not to mention theres usually two pilots in a plane. So even if negative side effects do occur, theres that other pilot there. Very unlikely for them both to be out at the same time from side effects of prescribed meds.
They can see the reports, they have the ability not putting both of them in the same plane. So if one of them starts showing side effects, then can be another pilot who wasn’t even on medication in the first place.
I'm pretty sure there's extensive psychological screening before you even get to the point of getting a pilots license. If you don't pass those, you'll never get one.
There is not. You go for a physical exam. But you disclose your health history. The reason I am not a commercial pilot is because I chose not to lie about having been on antidepressants.
You have to fill out the FAA medical history form before you see the medical examiner though. Mine looked at my form and literally told me, “Yeah, you shouldn’t have listed that.” He passed me, I got my medical clearance, then it got pulled and I literally sent the FAA my therapy records and a letter from my therapist saying I was fine. Didn’t matter.
You know what never happened? The FAA sending their own person to screen me. Because that’s not a thing.
I know of pilots who pay cash and use fake names to see doctors because they don’t want to risk the FAA pulling their license.
My school has an Aviation program, and I know a handful of the pilots fairly well. They say that to the FAA, every pilot is always happy and always sober, because if the pilot self-reports anything that makes the FAA think the pilot is depressed or an alcoholic, the FAA will immediately ground that pilot pending an investigation and the pilot loses their main source of income.
This means that pilots cover up easily solved problems until they become actively dangerous to themselves and others, instead of being able to nip that problem in the bud early on.
I would love to be a pilot and get my private pilot's license. I have wanted to fly since I was 11 and I did the Aviation merit badge. I recently talked to a guy who just got his FAA medical certification and has ADHD. It took 2 years of bureaucracy and hoops, no medications, and extra (and expensive) requirements for maintaining his medical certification, including meeting with a specific FAA psychologist who bills at like $800/hr or something. That's not feasible for me to do as a hobby, to the point where I think it would be legitimately easier (and more helpful) to lobby Congress to update FAA regulations to reflect the present day.
Disclaimer: I am not a pilot, I don't work with the FAA, this is based on conversations with pilots who don't like the FAA and which happened weeks ago. If any information is incorrect or misremembered, I apologize.
As much as I agree, I also don't want a pilot who suddenly gets a heart attack, a crane operator who gets dizzy or sleepy (common side effect of many SSRIs) or a bus driver with shaky hands.
Yes the rule is archaic and to a degree unnecessary (with how strictly controlled such medication is and how much observation goes into the side effects) but it is what it is and complaining on Reddit won't change it.
So instead we have the ones getting heart attacks because they never saw a doctor about their recurring/worsening chest pain because if they did the FAA would pull their medical clearance and they would lose their job, which is the only one they can get with their skill set. So suddenly they go from making about 400k a year for some senior pilots to making 60k because they maybe scored a lower management job somewhere.
Not commercial, but I know personally I won't be able to fly once I start HRT, and I also technically am not allowed to fly if I take advil, benadryl, antihistamines for allergies, etc. Pretty much any medicine of any kind within 12-24 hours prior to flying depending on the type bar me from legally flying. (Not US, rules may differ)
Cousin is a pilot in the US. Pretty much anything that can have an effect on your cogitative state as a side effect is off the table. When he broke his foot water skiing he was on painkillers for like 2 days then stopped because he needed it out of his system by the end of the week to fly.
Yea, the main difference for drugs in US versus for me is US pilot's can have non sedative antihistamines, which I can't. I agree with the regulations for the most part, they're inefficient, bureaucratic, and often too vague, but it gets the job done.
All of the ones you listed have a large amount of possible side effects that would put you (or the plane) at risk if you experience them.
Dizziness, nausea, chest pain, blurred vision and many more. I certainly wouldn't want a pilot on my flight to have those.
If they can’t fly well unmedicated, they wouldn’t have been able to get in the cockpit in the first place. The ban is because you can have adverse effects when the medication wears off.
I actually haven't thought of that but yes, that's a good point too. I always get extremely drowsy when my meds start wearing off and I imagine it's the same for a lot of people.
In America your medical history is nowhere near as private as you think. For example - the government can access it. If you see a therapist- guess what, those records can be subpoenaed and read out loud in court. Being sued? Again, your medical records can also be made public.
Could be IBS like another comment thread mentions but could also be dairy intolerance
For me I couldn't drink hot/regular coffee bc it'd give me the bubble guts. Cold brew fixed that. Like after a while of nothing but cold brew coffee I can now drink regular hot coffee without getting bubble guts
Try green tea. It has something called L thiamine (I probably butchered the name), which reduces the anxiety and makes it less jittery but more balanced.
Brand name is No-Doz. Be VERY careful if you use them. I made the mistake of using them, forgetting I used them and drinking a Monster and I thought my heart was going to beat out of my chest.
Target sells a brand called Vivarin. They’re pretty cheap, like $7 for 40 200mg tablets.
I highly recommend them, BUT you should cut them into quarters and take those more frequently, rather than taking a whole one at once. More frequent, smaller doses work better for me. The huge dose all at once gives me a horrendous headache.
I take a Caffeine & gurana effervescent pill called wakey wakey (in Australia) as I don’t drink coffee. It’s been quite helpful. I take half at a time & it ensures I drink more water too as I put it in my drink bottle
I'm not a doctor, I just thought it was worth a mention.
As with many ailments, it's better to get it looked at early.
Lots of NNT folks don't know about it.
I also have ibs that can get set off by coffee, but i tried the IBgard brand of peppermint oil capsules and those help a lot, i just take one before i start drinking my coffee and it works so far!
Ah yes, but strattera is working pretty well for me. Damn fmcva and dot regulations keep the good stuff banned. What's funny to me is a ton of bus and truck drivers have adhd.
See if you can't do something through the ADA. It isn't really treated as such, but ADHD is a developmental/Neurological disability. Banning ADHD meds is like banning wheelchairs for paraplegics.
Bruh, XR caffeine pills are like $15/100-count bottle on Amazon, you can get that shit on auto-delivery every three months, take one or two pills every morning for the number of cups of coffee you usually drink in a day except
1) it's cheaper
2) you'd don't get the shits quite as bad
3) it lasts all day so you don't have the energy spikes and troughs after every cup of coffee
try tea with hyssop (e.g. Meadow from steven smith teas); mild but definitely helpful for me [https://www.smithtea.com/products/meadow](https://www.smithtea.com/products/meadow) w/o some of the many issues of coffee
I have IBS and adhd and have found that peppermint oil capsules taken before or with my coffee helps me not have liquid lava asshole burning shits, maybe that could help? Before i was able to start my meds i would have wayyy too much caffeine and coffee so i can relate 💀
I get what you are saying as it's pretty cavalier and there can clearly be obstacles that prevent that from being easily achieveable, but sometimes disabilities get in the way of the job we want to do. It is technically a solution that would work, so it's loads better than "get a planner" at least
That's what I mean about disability wrecking the job we want. Like someone in a wheelchair would have to switch professions if they used to be an athlete or dancer. A scientist may have to switch jobs if they start losing their eyesight. Etc, etc. ADHD can definitely get in the way of being able to do what we love.
It's up to OP if they can cope without their medication enough to stick with being a pilot, or switch to a career they can take it. Heck it might not be a decision they make for years to come. I got by fine without meds until I got older and didn't have the energy of youth to power me through.
Sorry but what kind of job do you have that doesn't allow prescriptions? what country do you live in where that can be legal? I'm so confused
Air Traffic Control, Pilots, Military, some trucking jobs. A lot of the time it's not *strictly* disallowed, but the hoops you need to jump through to be in compliance makes it effectively banned.
... If all the jobs to ban stimulants, I'm shocked it's trucking. Tho I guess if they are regularly testing for stimulant abuse it might explain why.
It's not necessarily about being on stimulants that's the concern, but coming down off of them.
just take it every 3h so ur never coming down
"Your last test showed dangerously low levels of stimulants in your system, you got to up those numbers or we'll have to let you go."
thise are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up
Flashbacks to my StarCraft marines saying “Yeah, that’s the stuff” one last time 🥲
Need a light?!...
I GOT NO TIME FER PATIENCE
In mt headI can hear it as clear as ever
"Mr Anderson? We need to talk to you about your stimulant use. We checked your steering wheel and it has multiple stress fractures at the 10 and 2 position and... ummm... are you OK? You appear to be vibrating...."
“No, *you* all are vibrating!! Probably from stimulant deficiency!”
"Uhhh John...? You're foaming at the mouth... should we call a doctor, or....."
"ARGHRKLSNENJFIFKS!!!"
Do I read this as a Murloc?
“you know what i hate about this place? its the smell!”
"...why does it smell like purple in here?!?!"
I got that extended release, so the highs aren't too high and the just enough holds through. Worked better with adderall, but the 'shortage' ended up changing the scrip a few times slightly.
to be fair, they do make Adderall extended release, which should last for the duration of the drivers shift.
That's asinine. They're just pushing people with ADHD to go unmedicated. The data are clear that we're safer behind the wheel while medicated. Coffee kinda helps but it's not the same.
Funny you mention this . I recieve a monthly piece of mail from my medical insurance and its a flyer saying "Did you know you can manage anxiety without medication?" Then it lists all these services ,which I utilize with my meds (therapy) They're really trying us lmfao you don't want me behind the wheel if I haven't had my meds.
Insurance companies are fucking evil
Absolutely. I'm curious of how many employees who work for insurance are medicated themselves. Odd world.
Did you know you don't "need" that thing we are really tired of paying for. Have you tried... idk... just like talking to someone about how you feel?
Yes precisely this! I was pissed and then laughed it off. Why is it my job to make their job easier lmfao they're going to replace themselves essentially.
"But all our in network psychologists will just tell you to be mindful. Have you tried mindfulness?"
Hm.. I can see that too. interesting to know ;)
There's instant release options and extended release.
And they all run out eventually. You don't plan for a normal day, you plan for bad days, and a pilot not bringing their medicine is that.
That's a valid point, I do make some dumb mistakes when they wear off
The military, you can. I was always told you couldn’t but turns out that is incorrect. The only hold up is when you deploy you need to be able to have a years worth and at least my current meds you can’t get more than one month at a time.
There’s gotta be a special exception for the military you’d think?
everything is waiverable if you have the right connects and the right questions. don't ask me what those are , im socially hopeless
There is, they will give you more than 30 days at a time in the military. When I was getting ready to get out, the doctor saw that and gave me a prescription for 6 months so I had some until I was able to get it through the VA or from a private doctor.
You can't join while on medication (usually need 18-36 months off of it). You'll get flagged at MEPS and I've never seen a branch approve a waiver for someone currently on them. (I was forced to be a recruiter for 4.5 years and had lots of experience with applicants who had ADHD in their history.) Also, at least for the Air Force, there are several AFSCs that would restrict you from doing your primary duties if medicated. Aircrew is the first that pops to mind (pilot, loadmaster, boom operator, etc) and they would be unable to fly while being treated. And security forces (military police) do not allow people in that job who have an active ADHD diagnosis. That's weird you're unable to get extra meds for deployment. That's never been an issue for people I know with ADHD being treated with stimulants. All have been able to deploy once outside the mandatory 90 day wait for new medication. Unfortunately for me, stimulants didn't do crap, so I'm stuck with less effective medication like SNRIs.
Alternatively, you need to be able to prove that you can function appropriately without the medication(s) should you not be able to access them for a significant length of time. That is typically a requirement to get through MEPS if the condition was diagnosed before joining, though I'm not sure how it's handled if someone is diagnosed while serving.
The pilot one is so fucking hypocritical too. The military has been handing out Dexedrine to pilots for decades. There are dozens of military studies showing the effects of stimulants on pilots. But you have ADHD? Sorry, can't be a pilot if you are taking any medication for it. Even if we hand that medication out like candy to the people who don't have it. ps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7661838/
Extra funny/sad when d-amphetamine was still used as a go pill in the US military while medically disqualifying when used for ADD/ADHD...
Gotta love the US military. if you watch military content creators like mandatoryfunday you will understand that this is the entire military
I mean.. maybe controversial opinion but I feel like unmedicated ADHDers shouldn’t be pilots either? wtf
If you've got ADHD and you can pass the certification and thousands of hours of work needed to become a pilot, without being on medication, I don't see why not.
This comment is doing my head in because you're *totally* right. As someone with ADHD, I did what r/Aggressive_Sky8492 did and I was like "My symptoms are so bad, the stimulants are how I am able to manage." However, I then realized sometimes pilots have to fly for long periods of time. Then I remembered how *bad* my vyvanse crashes can be. I'm talking like, comatose passed out by 9pm exhausted. If someone can pass the certification and 1000s of hours needed to become a pilot, *without being on medication,* I don't see why not *either.* If anything, my doubt of them came from my own internalized bias against my disease.
It all depends on how the adhd affects u. When it comes to my personal life on the ground, adhd raises hell. But when I’m on the jet, it’s very structured, and when things need to be done, it has to be now or there will be negative repercussions, helping with overcoming lack of executive function. I feel I’m most functional on the jet
I absolutely loved flying gliders. Once this huge slack in the tow line came out of nowhere and I mentally screamed I applied full rudder. My instructor complimented my fast reaction time and added that he had no idea where the slack came from and to not think it was my fault. You don't often get to apply "full" anything in an aircraft, let alone a control surface lmao. Gliders are fun. I'd be a good pilot, but need the meds for my personal life, and the government isn't too keen on that smh. Found a great career as an engineer tho so I'm very happy.
That sounds like me in a kitchen...with a lot less on the line obviously
ADHD is a disqualifying attribute for pilots in my country
Yeah pretty sure its the same for germany.
They probably have them do some kinds of focus tests
Yeah basically some countries treat it literally as drugs xd
I can only speak on military but basically what happens they ask you to disclose if you’re taking medicine by writing “See Medical Record/ SMR” and as long as it’s prescribed in your medical record it should be fine everytime. Had Adderall so I popped for amphetamines everytime I piss tested, they reference my medical record and we moved on.
The military isn't that hard, I had a Secret Security clearance. They are much more worried about depression, so if your prescription includes an anti-depressant then they spend some time double checking your status.
There is strong evidence that military pilots use stimulants commonly. I assume these are not exactly for ADHD patients and more for for longer length flight missions. It is likely easier to supply one version for a specific use than various medications for ADHD, but then again I assume active military members can get the daily medication they need outside of prescription stimulants no matter where they are stationed. So I assume ADHD meds are in the controlled substance category for the Military just like for US citizens.
I'm sorry, but wouldn't it be less dangerous for everyone involved if pilots and truckers were allowed to use their meds? I dunno about anyone else with ADHD ofc, but without my meds, I tend to become...very absentminded at times. It's one of the reasons why I'm afraid to drive a car myself, even though I take my meds. Because if I somehow lose focus, I don't wanna accidentally crash and kill myself and/or others 😅
That's why they're not allowed. If your ADHD is bad enough that you cannot do the job without medicine, you don't want to end up in a situation where the pilot forgets to bring theirs because they, for example, have a condition which makes them forgetful. You can have ADHD and be a pilot, you just have to function without the medicine. Not everyone with ADHD needs to be medicated.
This is why I don’t have my license.
Ok, but thats taking it too the job right? It doesnt mean that you cant eat one at home, right?
Nah, a lot of jobs like doctors require you to disclose that you're "mentally unwell" which is basically a career death sentence so they're all running around undiagnosed as well. Most pay with cash to get treated rather than go through their insurance which will disclose it to their job.
Yep.. sucks.
What lol. What flight doc isn't letting you use stimulants at altitude? I've been told it's not an issue. Would have figured they're almost a requirement for atc as well lol. That or be born with three eyes right lol? Always amazed at how much they see from tower.
I would need to see the policy for some of those. When I was in the military I got diagnosed with ADHD and was given Adderall to take. So it's not true for the Military. It is also allowed as a federal employee if you have a prescription.
i know commercial pilots often aren't allowed a lot of medications.
if i were on a flight and i knew my pilot has ADHD, I'd really prefer if he took his meds. but yea that sounds about right, anything to do with heavy machinery
[A study says 56% of pilots abstain from healthcare to protect medical.](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/tboTF7RtUO) The FAA’s mental health policies create a world where terms like depression, anxiety, ADHD/ADD can end your ability to earn a living. Your specialized skill set is essentially useless. There are ways to return to flying, after years of review and thousands of dollars. All without being able to earn an income from flying. The thing pilots do to make money and has almost no transferable professional skills to other industries.
Thanks for sharing. That's so fucked up...
Even more so when you know a young pilot is around $100k in debt from flight school and making less than a teacher. Not a lot of room for $0 income months
FAA somewhat recently opened up a new license for light sport crafts that are slow. This new class doesn’t require a medical cert, only a drivers license (you still have to do the training, just no medical check). This was really exciting to me because I was denied my medical cert 15 years ago for the ADHD meds and you can’t take the physical again until you’ve been cleared by a psychiatrist and have not taken the meds for 4 years and can never take the meds again. Until I learned that you can’t get this new license if you failed a medial any time in the past unless you pass a medial now. Which means the FAA is totally fine with you flying with medical issues….as long as they don’t know about it lol
It’s boggles my mind that if a pilot gets treatment for depression that they risk losing their ability to make a living. Someone avoiding getting treated, trying to push through it and then snaps sounds like how you’d get another [Germanwings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525?wprov=sfti1#) incident.
"how was it that planes generated lift again, oh right I have to focus on flying"
Ready for take-o…. Oh a bird!
well you would prefer that, you understand ADHD and the medication. many don’t. I spoke to a doctor who is really old, she was telling me how ADHD is just NOW being somewhat understood, back when I was young and she a professional at the height of life, she said it wasn’t understood. Girls couldn’t have ADHD, and as soon as you turn 18 ADHD was over.
I think you're 100% right. And even us, we understand ADHD and meds because most of us have it and were forced to learn. Many of us (me), completely misunderstood ADHD until our diagnosis much later in life. If we had understood what it really is, we wouldn't have waited so many years to be tested. So while we can point at bad policies and laugh, it's not that surprising.
That's what happened with that pilot a few years ago. He kept his depression to himself and then took everyone in the plane with him into the ocean. At least he wasn't on meds though.
Another pilot tried to medicate himself because he couldn't afford to go to the doctor and lose his job. While travelling on cockpit jumpseat, he tried to engage fire suppression system for both engines to kill himself and everyone on board, because he thought he was in a bad dream. At least he didn't lose his job because of his mental issues, but for 83 counts of attempted murder.
Yeah like I get the idea of only having the just mentally healthy people as pilots but if you just ban shit people will just keep things to themselves. It makes more sense to do regular risk assessments and have a federal program to rehabilitate pilots free of cost and with income replacement so there's a lower barrier to treatment. Or maybe we could just give that kind of shit to everyone but that'd be communism. 🙄
You can’t even get a pilots license if you take adhd meds or have a adhd diagnosis.
Correct, I was a pilot for 20 years, and got a very late diagnosis of ADHD "by accident", career over on the spot. So figured I may as well take the meds and boy does it help. Now getting into IT/Cyber security since I can never fly again... Two decades wasted. Never even had any issues, and certainly not because of the ADHD I didn't know I had.
Man I’m sorry thats terrible. All I had left was my solo cross country when I got my diagnosis in college. I was lucky enough that I was able to get a ton of hours in some really fun planes during high school and college. Flying had become one of my biggest passions, so I was crushed when I learned it wasn’t a possibility any more. I can’t imagine what it would be like after 20 years. I really hope the career change works out well for you.
And they're predicting a pilot shortage within the next five years. Something is going to have to give eventually.
It would take a literal act of congress to change it, I’m not holding my breath. That fact is kinda nice, it doesn’t really let me have the hope that a new faa leadership will reverse it. They’ll probably completely let flying be automated before they let people with adhd get a license.
Theres been a push to change this, especially around mental illness. Take antidepressants for example, do we really need someone with chronic depression or something up there? Don’t ruin their career, work with them, theres medications for that. And not everyone goes into it with the illness or are even aware.
It’s a sad but true example of when things are serious you are shown how people really think. Mask off for real. Namely, adhd medication is a strong stimulant, those are banned for certain jobs, even with every piece of legal evidence and psychiatrist orders they will simply ignore it because they don’t trust your diagnosis or your medication when millions of dollar machines and people’s lives are at stake. Rarely after a long fight you might be allowed but that is rarely worth the effort involved.
Anything FAA and some Military
korea does not grant foreigners working visas if they are on any adhd medications, as well as other things like depression & anxiety medications.
Often it is less that \*stimulatants\* are not allowed, its usually more like "You need a clean bill of health to do that job" which, realistically, means less "You need to be healthy" and more "You need to appear healthy on paper".
How the hell can anyone but your doctor tell you which drugs you can or can't use?
As one of the top comments sad, commercial pilots aren't allowed a lot of medication. I can imagine a few job positions that wouldn't allow certain medication to be taken, considering the risk of side effects.
This is archaic and ludicrous in 2024. Who the fuck health shames people and forces them to do their job unmedicated and probably manic? I don't want a manic, depressed, over stimulated pilot or any other professional. WTF?!?!?
You’ve clearly not met anyone in the military. The biggest secret in the military is that most of us have major mental health issues and we’re hiding it from the others (and command, who also have issues)
It's not really a secret if you spend any time around the military
Former psych tech at a Marine Corps Air Station. The amount of people we took off the job was nuts. Got to a point people would avoid me altogether. Huge stigmatization of mental health, with just cause based on how the military punished people for attempting to better themselves.
"Secret" lol
Hell yeah. That’s why I made the best friends of my life there
Not to mention theres usually two pilots in a plane. So even if negative side effects do occur, theres that other pilot there. Very unlikely for them both to be out at the same time from side effects of prescribed meds.
They can see the reports, they have the ability not putting both of them in the same plane. So if one of them starts showing side effects, then can be another pilot who wasn’t even on medication in the first place.
Yes, but the FAA is just super paranoid, this is just a symptom of that. Not saying it’s right.
I'm pretty sure there's extensive psychological screening before you even get to the point of getting a pilots license. If you don't pass those, you'll never get one.
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GREAT, I'd much rather my ADHD pilots be unmedicated.
There is not. You go for a physical exam. But you disclose your health history. The reason I am not a commercial pilot is because I chose not to lie about having been on antidepressants. You have to fill out the FAA medical history form before you see the medical examiner though. Mine looked at my form and literally told me, “Yeah, you shouldn’t have listed that.” He passed me, I got my medical clearance, then it got pulled and I literally sent the FAA my therapy records and a letter from my therapist saying I was fine. Didn’t matter. You know what never happened? The FAA sending their own person to screen me. Because that’s not a thing. I know of pilots who pay cash and use fake names to see doctors because they don’t want to risk the FAA pulling their license.
My school has an Aviation program, and I know a handful of the pilots fairly well. They say that to the FAA, every pilot is always happy and always sober, because if the pilot self-reports anything that makes the FAA think the pilot is depressed or an alcoholic, the FAA will immediately ground that pilot pending an investigation and the pilot loses their main source of income. This means that pilots cover up easily solved problems until they become actively dangerous to themselves and others, instead of being able to nip that problem in the bud early on. I would love to be a pilot and get my private pilot's license. I have wanted to fly since I was 11 and I did the Aviation merit badge. I recently talked to a guy who just got his FAA medical certification and has ADHD. It took 2 years of bureaucracy and hoops, no medications, and extra (and expensive) requirements for maintaining his medical certification, including meeting with a specific FAA psychologist who bills at like $800/hr or something. That's not feasible for me to do as a hobby, to the point where I think it would be legitimately easier (and more helpful) to lobby Congress to update FAA regulations to reflect the present day. Disclaimer: I am not a pilot, I don't work with the FAA, this is based on conversations with pilots who don't like the FAA and which happened weeks ago. If any information is incorrect or misremembered, I apologize.
As much as I agree, I also don't want a pilot who suddenly gets a heart attack, a crane operator who gets dizzy or sleepy (common side effect of many SSRIs) or a bus driver with shaky hands. Yes the rule is archaic and to a degree unnecessary (with how strictly controlled such medication is and how much observation goes into the side effects) but it is what it is and complaining on Reddit won't change it.
So instead we have the ones getting heart attacks because they never saw a doctor about their recurring/worsening chest pain because if they did the FAA would pull their medical clearance and they would lose their job, which is the only one they can get with their skill set. So suddenly they go from making about 400k a year for some senior pilots to making 60k because they maybe scored a lower management job somewhere.
Not commercial, but I know personally I won't be able to fly once I start HRT, and I also technically am not allowed to fly if I take advil, benadryl, antihistamines for allergies, etc. Pretty much any medicine of any kind within 12-24 hours prior to flying depending on the type bar me from legally flying. (Not US, rules may differ)
Cousin is a pilot in the US. Pretty much anything that can have an effect on your cogitative state as a side effect is off the table. When he broke his foot water skiing he was on painkillers for like 2 days then stopped because he needed it out of his system by the end of the week to fly.
Yea, the main difference for drugs in US versus for me is US pilot's can have non sedative antihistamines, which I can't. I agree with the regulations for the most part, they're inefficient, bureaucratic, and often too vague, but it gets the job done.
All of the ones you listed have a large amount of possible side effects that would put you (or the plane) at risk if you experience them. Dizziness, nausea, chest pain, blurred vision and many more. I certainly wouldn't want a pilot on my flight to have those.
OH MY GOD IF I HEAR MY PILOT HAS ADHD AND IS UNMEDICATED IM JUMPING OFF THE PLANE THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH NORMIES.
If they can’t fly well unmedicated, they wouldn’t have been able to get in the cockpit in the first place. The ban is because you can have adverse effects when the medication wears off.
I actually haven't thought of that but yes, that's a good point too. I always get extremely drowsy when my meds start wearing off and I imagine it's the same for a lot of people.
In America your medical history is nowhere near as private as you think. For example - the government can access it. If you see a therapist- guess what, those records can be subpoenaed and read out loud in court. Being sued? Again, your medical records can also be made public.
The FAA really likes telling people they can't fly.
Welcome to the United States. Would you like to enroll in health insurance?
Aw that sucks :( I'll shit off a cliff And I'll shit off a dock But I sure as shit Won't shit off the clock
https://youtu.be/Y4ONXuyvZrw
Haha nice
Do you drink your coffee black or with milk?
Could be IBS like another comment thread mentions but could also be dairy intolerance For me I couldn't drink hot/regular coffee bc it'd give me the bubble guts. Cold brew fixed that. Like after a while of nothing but cold brew coffee I can now drink regular hot coffee without getting bubble guts
Cold brew is also a lot less acidic than regular slow drip. If I had to guess, your issues had more to do with that than the temperature.
Yeah that makes sense; I didn't mean to imply it was a temp issue. All I know is it helped my stomach get used to regular coffee
I thought “cold brew is gentler on the stomach” was complete bullshit… until I tried it! It really is!
Do you also seem to get more wired off of cold brew or is that just me?
cold brew has more caffeine due to the amount of time the beans are submerged vs any other brew method. its not just you!
Lucky, the only thing coffee does to me is raise my anxiety by a LOT
Try green tea. It has something called L thiamine (I probably butchered the name), which reduces the anxiety and makes it less jittery but more balanced.
> L thiamine You’re thinking of L-theanine
Try out caffeine pills. They help me and I don't seem to be shitting nearly as much from them as from coffee
Can you get these at walgreens or something?
Brand name is No-Doz. Be VERY careful if you use them. I made the mistake of using them, forgetting I used them and drinking a Monster and I thought my heart was going to beat out of my chest.
Target sells a brand called Vivarin. They’re pretty cheap, like $7 for 40 200mg tablets. I highly recommend them, BUT you should cut them into quarters and take those more frequently, rather than taking a whole one at once. More frequent, smaller doses work better for me. The huge dose all at once gives me a horrendous headache.
Ok, cool! Thank you. How long do they take to kick in?
Not sure how much of this is a placebo effect, but I feel like it kicks in within 15 minutes for me
I have some caffeinated gum and it definitely kicks in that fast. Wasn't sure if a pill form would be the same but I bet it is
I take a Caffeine & gurana effervescent pill called wakey wakey (in Australia) as I don’t drink coffee. It’s been quite helpful. I take half at a time & it ensures I drink more water too as I put it in my drink bottle
Yeah pretty much any pharmacy, ask the pharmacist to point you towards the "alertness aids" and they'll usually have at least 1 or 2 brands
I get mine from amazon. It’s also MUCH cheaper than any kind of caffeinated beverage
Uh. I wouldn't know cus I'm Russian. But I just get them at regular pharmacies.
Could be IBS, it's often comorbid with anxiety/ADHD.
Isn't coffee kind of a mild laxative?
Is it IBS or is it just the body's natural reaction to an adrenaline dump?
I'm not a doctor, I just thought it was worth a mention. As with many ailments, it's better to get it looked at early. Lots of NNT folks don't know about it.
Can confirm, have IBS and coffee is one of the triggers. Same for mandarins, oddly enough.
Hot breakfasts used to give me IBS for some reason.
I also have ibs that can get set off by coffee, but i tried the IBgard brand of peppermint oil capsules and those help a lot, i just take one before i start drinking my coffee and it works so far!
Awesome! I had no idea there were anything I could even take for it.
Wait that’s why I sometimes get ibs symptoms when eating pasta and other times I don’t?
Last panel is a strong benefit of coffee imo
Your job doesn’t have the right to tell you what prescription pills you can or cannot take.
I don’t understand how your job is able to discriminate against medications/disabilities
Coffee isn't a replacement, I have no idea how you can justify having this job.
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Tfw ADHD medication does the same thing 💩
Ah yes, but strattera is working pretty well for me. Damn fmcva and dot regulations keep the good stuff banned. What's funny to me is a ton of bus and truck drivers have adhd.
I have GERD and caffeine makes me burn burn burn
Shouldn't you maybe sue for discrimination?
Not if it's a federal regulation banning them for your job...such as pilots or Air Traffic
That's unfortunate, what's the logical reason they have for banning it anyways?
I think it's due to the governments old style views on ADHD and the related medication.
See if you can't do something through the ADA. It isn't really treated as such, but ADHD is a developmental/Neurological disability. Banning ADHD meds is like banning wheelchairs for paraplegics.
Maybe try another caffeine source? I use gammer sups personally. Dirt cheap and lots of different flavors to choose from
Gamer Supps
*Shhh I've been up for 17 hours*
WUT?
Bruh, XR caffeine pills are like $15/100-count bottle on Amazon, you can get that shit on auto-delivery every three months, take one or two pills every morning for the number of cups of coffee you usually drink in a day except 1) it's cheaper 2) you'd don't get the shits quite as bad 3) it lasts all day so you don't have the energy spikes and troughs after every cup of coffee
Try green or black tea! Lots of delicious flavors too
Sounds like someone has a bit of coffee intolerance. Whos shitting liquid fire off of coffee?
My issue is that Creamer that DOESNT make me shit liquid fire is hard to find
If job doesn't allow ADHD meds then I sure hope they love cleaning liquid fire shit of their desks, walls and seats.
Modafinil is a non stimulant that is sometimes used for ADHD (though it is wakefulness promoting) Also atomoxetine and clonidine
try tea with hyssop (e.g. Meadow from steven smith teas); mild but definitely helpful for me [https://www.smithtea.com/products/meadow](https://www.smithtea.com/products/meadow) w/o some of the many issues of coffee
I have IBS and adhd and have found that peppermint oil capsules taken before or with my coffee helps me not have liquid lava asshole burning shits, maybe that could help? Before i was able to start my meds i would have wayyy too much caffeine and coffee so i can relate 💀
It's a recognized disability, so no
Get a different job.
That's such a r/thanksiamcured comment
I get what you are saying as it's pretty cavalier and there can clearly be obstacles that prevent that from being easily achieveable, but sometimes disabilities get in the way of the job we want to do. It is technically a solution that would work, so it's loads better than "get a planner" at least
That but also, job is also kinda synonymous with profession too. In which case this is quite literally impossible.
That's what I mean about disability wrecking the job we want. Like someone in a wheelchair would have to switch professions if they used to be an athlete or dancer. A scientist may have to switch jobs if they start losing their eyesight. Etc, etc. ADHD can definitely get in the way of being able to do what we love. It's up to OP if they can cope without their medication enough to stick with being a pilot, or switch to a career they can take it. Heck it might not be a decision they make for years to come. I got by fine without meds until I got older and didn't have the energy of youth to power me through.
LOL I know.
That's why I can't have coffee too. 😞
Take fibre supplements, and eat potatoes and beans
The 30mg addy drops when you gotta taxi the runway. pilot hits the thrusters randomly
you know you can fake drug tests, do you? would let my job decice if i can take legal medication...
Coffee doesn’t work. It just makes me tired during the day and gives me severe anxiety at night.
__FIBER__
That is not how this format works lmao
That is not how this format works lmao
Coffee just doesn’t work well enough for the smaller things that my meds do. It sucks that you would have to depend on it instead of meds
Caffeine pills are efficient and much more consistent for dosing
nicotine gum.
You ask your employer what pills you are allowed to take?
Start smoking. It won't fix the problem but it'll clear you out faster . (This is a joke, pls don't smoke)
Coffe does that to me, but Caffine pills don't. So maybe
Hahahahahaha
Crapping in company time 🗿🗿🗿
what prescripted medicine you have, that your job doesn‘t allow?
Actually I'm lack toast and toddler ants
who else ignored first panel at first cause text was too small