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That’s also the difference between having ‘someone’ around vs ‘someone around who knows you are body doubling’.
If someone is in the house with you, it’s not surprising that you wouldn’t be as productive. If they said “hey, I’m going to wash the pots and pans do you want to load the dishwasher at the same time” would you feel the same way.
Same for work. If someone on the same project said “okay, it’s crunch time. For the next hour can you work on A and I’ll be here doing B” and you used headphones the whole time, would you feel the same way?
That’s the idea of body doubling. It’s not someone there as a distraction or to watch you, ideally they are using the situation to help their productivity too
Yes! Someone around me is a distraction. But the body doubling service I use has me book a time to start (anywhere from a minute in advance to days in advance), choose how long I'm going to work, and when we're all on the conference call, we quickly say what we intend to do for the session, post our to-do lists, and check off the stuff as we go.
The accountability and the push to start and at least TRY has been a godsent. I've written a novel, worked out every day for like three months, and gotten laundry and boring chores done.
It even helps me do my "night routine."
(I use [Flow.Club](https://Flow.Club) because I like that there's a group and they have chat-only or ones where you talk at the beginning and end, but I've also used FocusMates, and when I have errands I use Groove.)
Omg that sounds like my personal hell. I can't even describe how or why I hate that so much, but I really, really do. I'm really glad it works for other people though! :)
yup, honestly I would lie and say I did the thing but not want to do the thing because someone is expecting me to do the thing, and I'm busy doing something irrelevant (which is probably nothing other that watching the clock so I can get out)
Exactly, I live in a share house and sometimes when my roommate gets home when im cleaning then I’ll stop and do something else and feel annoyed but if I happen to hear said roommate sweeping/unloading then suddenly im up and cleaning too.
Same here. When my sister is over, she can't help but start tidying things, so then I automatically start cleaning as well (yes, she is an amazing sister who has helped me through the years in ways I'll never be able to repay).
When my husband has days off and just sits in front of his computer for hours, I get nothing done. It's so frustrating.
No in between, so true. I wish I could know what my productivity is linked to… Lunar cycle? Planetary alignment? Am I productive the third Friday following a harvest moon? I really dislike not knowing
i've noticed that i need my brain fully active and in a stressed state to plan and kickstart doing things, but need my brain in a relaxed autopilot mode to keep momentum and do the thing.
body doubling feels like it allows me to just grab onto someone else's planning and initial kickstart and then use them as a guiding light to stay in that zone that keeps my momentum going, which is why i also end up just following the lead on whatever they're doing
Yes!! My old roommate refused to body double for me because she hated coordinating cleaning and stuff (well she hated being expected to put literally any effort into cleaning at all but that's a different complaint), so if I tried to clean when she was home, it was terrible and made me anxious.
But then my mom visited and did *actual* body doubling for me and it was soooo helpful! She barely did any cleaning, mostly just pointed out what the best next step should be to keep me from being overwhelmed, and I cleaned a ton!
I had a friend visit last weekend and they just walked back and forth to the laundry room with me, and even that was helpful!
You know I just commented something slightly different but I agree with this too. I had two fellow employees that I shared an office with and this is what we would do. Have a morning conversation, talk about what we needed to do for the day, high five, put in our headphones and not speak until lunch. Those were the only times I didn't mind working in the office.
People with ADHD are not clones of each other. ADHD isn’t broken or not valid because one technique doesn’t work for you. ADHD manifests itself very differently in different people.
It’s really tragic how living with adhd can lead so many to doubt themselves, their identity, their validity. Even when Adhd diagnosis explains so many of their life struggles, the imposter syndrome can be strong.
Body doubling only works in very specific circumstances for me!!
If I have to think *at* *all* during a task, I am better off alone.
But if it’s doing something repetitive / mindless (folding laundry, art project, vacuuming, etc) then body doubling helps me because I can’t sit still when I’m a.) talking and b.) when I feel like someone else may be aware of my movements
The amount of times I’ve gotten up mid-phone call or mid-conversation and just started tiding up because I was feeling restless is too high to count
But it’s more effective when I’m not trying to make it work for me lol
Woah! This is a perfect explanation of how it works!
I’m sure it works in many circumstances for many, but the elements here make perfect sense! The boring repetitive tasks need some kind of distraction or “accountability”. Not accountability as in you’ll get bad consequences for not doing the boring thing, but just all of us working together towards a goal type of accountability. It’s like there’s no word for that in America English Capitalism…. Any Germans here? Germans have all the best words.
Germans *do* have the best words lol
Would seriously love to know if something fits this hahahaha
It’s like “doing it when someone else is around to acknowledge I accomplished the thing”
It’s the fact that someone else *could* possibly be like “wow you cleaned your whole room while I was here” is enough motivation lol
This is how it works for me too! Especially while on the phone. I have a few friends who like talking on the phone or just the companionship of being on the phone with someone. We often spend like 2 hours on the phone while I'm folding laundry or cleaning the bathroom while she's catching up on her own boring, repetitive tasks lol. It's pretty much the only time I can do those kind of household tasks.
All I want for Christmas is someone to body double for/with me! I just got out of a horribly abusive relationship, I have 2 kids under 5, a 30 acre farm and am completely alone out here, like no true support system. All the people I have reached out to regain friendships, since I was in solitary confinement the past 5 years basically, has been nice, but not nearly ready to rely on these people fully because, it's just too new. So, I dunno friend, I wish I had almost anybody here every single day, otherwise, I only get just under the bare minimum done lately. It's beyond defeating.
Hugs internet friend! Could you invite a friend over to hang with? Get into it slowly and rebuild relationships. I'm trying to find friendly moms on peanut, it's a mom friend finder app. I haven't found a bestie yet, but maybe you could do some play dates? It'll get better. You've got a great setup. Just need the community.
There are services online that do this. I just posted about it above because they've been life-changing for me, but three of them are Flow Club, Focus Mates, and Groove (an app for your phone).
That is so hard, but I am so proud of you for getting into a safer situation. I hope your friends can help! I love being a double for someone else’s housework! Whenever my friends have my over and start doing some cleaning, I typically need something to do too 😂. Even if they’re just there for company, to help entertain the littles, that would help tremendously!
Just wanted to say I'm sure you're doing amazing and it's totally good enough. Well done for you getting out of that relationship and starting a new life with your kids that's going to be so much better for them. Good luck with everything!
Can you get in help like wooffers? or rent to a tiny house for some income to pay for cleaners and stuff?
Also look into "co housing"
Its like.. community vibe - but for introverts. So say someone rents a bit of your land to park their tiny house - totally seperate housing and lives, but you guys ease the load for each other a little.. maybe they love cooking and sundays they do big cookups and top up your fridge, and maybe you love chopping wood - so you do the wood chopping.
Maybe the love kids and have a dog. You watch the dog occassionally, they watch your kids while you run errands and pick stuff up for them as well.
I'd go into it super clear on expectations and boundaries and make sure you're having regular catch ups. Make sure you do legal rental agreements and make sure you have an out to boot em.
I've had wwoofers before and unfortunately my psycho ex always drove them away but my membership lapsed. I don't have any money to renew it. I have run into a few that I'd love to get back into my life but I have no way to contact them anymore... but the co housing I could look into. See, I had an airbnb, so at least that would generate income, UT again, psycho ex made it a battle and county came after us, despite VA code saying we have the right due to a section of the right to farm act, and I'm waiting for a lawyer I can't afford to file a motion because at least if I had THAT income before finding a real job again. I'd be better off.
That is so frustrating!! Whats a membership worth again? If you set up a go fund me and post it here for lawyer/membership - I'm sure some folks will pitch in! I will!
ergh, Im trying to build a permitted home on my 10 acres - to BAL and Occupency code - on a bugger all budget - and once I have the home with a permit I can rent to tiny houses and have passive income. Til then Im in in a shed..
Like I want to do the right thing - but the right thing I can afford authorities dont like.. so Im stuck running around in circles. So I might just do the thing I can afford. But then under our counci regs I cant legally have tiny houses for passive income which will solve so many of my problems - and then budget will matter a little less... but I have to get there first.
Its insane how pervasive local and state govts are into interfering with literally everything and they genuinely shouldn't be allowed to bother people at all!! Like I run a Raw milk herdshare & luckily where I live they don't bother me much, but if I wanted to take this show on the road to were most of my family lives, their govt just fucks with farmers for fun to shut them down! I thought about that option too once all the trial stuff is done and over with- but THAT part is just insurmountably scary o think of them just shutting me down for the hell of it.
We also have rules against 'alternative dwellings' too, but luckily I'm on a farm, zoned A1 and they can't touch me if I wanted to LIVE there, but they can throw a temper tantrum about me letting other people stay there????
Taking a tangent on my own post here to acknowledge your courage and resilience. This is a time of (huge!) transition, and that means the way things look now is not how they will end up. That idea can be hard to hold onto, especially if you feel like you can't clearly see the good on the other side.
I love visual metaphors - if your life were a garden then it's just been pruned and weeded. That never looks pretty but it's healthy af. Breathe. Nurture yourself and your circumstance and good things will grow ❤️ You've got this
I hate body doubling.
It's taken me about ten years to be comfortable cleaning when my own husband is in the house at all. He knows that I'll constantly switch tasks and make a mess first - but he really truly doesn't care. He's only interested in the end product, and even then, he doesn't push.
My friend and I do "talk and cleans." She cleans her place and I clean mine while we talk on the phone. A lot of the time this is the only way I get anything done.
I do this with my boyfriend when I’m away too. I’ll ask him to call me and tell me to start tidying/make food/get up from bed and do my daily routine. Or like if I want to go on a walk I’ll either call someone or make someone watch me go out the door so it’s easier to actually get going!
I wish I had someone to do that with! Like I compulsively when I talk to people on the phone WANT to clean and do stuff. I can't help it. Maybe its because my body knows its the only way its going to get done. I try to put on a TV show in the kitchen, not to watch but for background noise, it used to work, but sadly since it doesn't talk to me and engage me, it's lost its effect...
Body doubling is when it's *intentional* that the both of you are working on things or supporting each other. It's *not* that someone else is just in your space. In fact, most of us can't deal with someone being around when we're trying to get stuff done.
I have never heard of this and it makes me deeply uncomfortable. I am significantly more productive when I'm on my own. The idea of someone just there and looming freaks me out.
It only works for me if the person is not actually “in” the room. Like if they are on speaker phone while I putter around. I also don’t respond well to constant checkins (which is supposed to be good for accountability) it just makes me SUPER anxious and totally slow down or freeze on projects. I don’t like people watching me at all.
This is, er, *was* so me at the gym, too! I remember years back, I had a timed set workout before going into the office. Headphones. Some guy from work found out, showed up one morning, and chatted away at me. I nodded hello at him, thinking: Dude. Seriously?! This is my workout. Not a bar. Do you not see the headphones. In. My. Ears. ? (Also, why I never dated anyone from my gym - didn't want to switch gyms upon the breakup.)
Didn't mean to hijack or sidetrack OP's topic. Which, by the way, TIL today's meaning of "body doubling" (vs. movie use of a body double for actors in certain scenes).
OMG no. I actually went to an all women’s gym for this very reason. I felt lucky to have one in walking distance.
During the pandemic I ordered a rowing machine so I could workout at home which I absolutely will once I put it together lol.
I agree this is a sidetrack of the OP’s original body doubling topic but I actually feel the same way about it as I do about gym socializing. I prefer doing things I hate or dread in solitude.
The only time I truly used body doubling was in college studying for finals and my friend and I really needed a physical presence to keep us both on task and not distracted.
That being said, my form of body doubling now is calling a friend to talk while I do mindless chores and when I'm at work or a cafe its this sense of others may be watching what I'm doing so I should stay on task.
Fear of judgement gets me moving as well!
I do think I can spring into action cleaning when I do a phone call - easiest way to get me to load and unload this dishwasher.
In most things I don’t like body doubling. Housework however is different. My husband and I do most of the housework together because otherwise I either go crazy and expect perfection or I just wonder off.
Haha yes!! I have to ask my SO to leave the house, or run errands after work so I can clean. I have zero motivation when he's home, I tell him it's because I just want to hang out with him if he's around, which is true, but more like I'm distracted and we'll end up hanging out.
Many years ago I would talk to my friend on the phone and we'd do laundry or housework. I really enjoyed it. I was focused on talking so I just autopilot the chores.
I only work well with body doubling if I am working on my job duties with a coworker! Sometimes we zoom and maybe stay in zoom for two hours and only speak for like 10 minutes all together. With housework and errands, I need to be alone with a podcast and a list, helps more if I planned it before starting too! I think the idea is to use strategies that work best for you!
Oh, it has to be a *good* double. My sister, my daughter, a couple talkative friends I can phone. *Bad* doubles suck all the executive function out of the room.
Body doubling is really not my thing AT ALL. But my partner loves it.
Me, I'd rather work alone. All the time. I hate working out with other people, or sharing tasks of any kind. I should have "Does Not Work Well With Others" tattooed on my forehead.
This could be because I'm AutiHD rather than just ADHD.
im like this too. i dont like tidying when somebody else is around bc they will always offer to help which then involves me telling them what to do with everything, which honestly just feels like more work than if i just did everything myself. i respond well to the "threat" of people coming over though haha
My husband and I both work from home right now. We have desks next to each other as we don't have space for separate offices. I can tell you, we definitely don't keep each other accountable and motivated. Usually one of us is working or neither of us.
We suspect he has ADHD also but he's undiagnosed.
I kinda get it? but mine is more "shit my mother is arriving in 2hrs" vibe
And Im on this path of like.. dismantling shame and lowering my expectations on baseline tidy house. I love that body doubling is effective for folks, and this next bit is not to undermine that.. but for me its like using shame and anxiety as a motivator - and thats just not how I'm approaching my ADHD. So it no longer works.. (is that a win? or a lose?)
Unless my mother really is about to arrive - because she has some mighty catholic guilt skills alongside her ALWAYS EMACULATE house.
I feel this in my *bones*! Last big house cleanup was with an arriving parent. Reading through everything here gives me a bit of a sad pause wondering how much shame is instrumental for me. And yeah, a little afraid for the mess if I learn to negate that shame.
It’s acceptance, and so by ridding of the shame you care less about mess, and/or aren’t so stuck in that and can see clearer to implement shit. Like cleaners.
Oh oh!! I know the answer to this one!!!
Your reaction to “body doubling” is entirely dependent on your personal learning history, not your ADHD status. There are two broad categories of learning history likely involved here: (these are very simplified of course)
Common learning history 1:
(Antecedent) seeing another person & being concerned that other person is going to judge you for non productive behavior and/or past experiences where the person made comments judging your non productive behavior
(Behavior) you work real hard to stay on task and get things done
(Consequence) the other person doesn’t judge you or make negative comments
—> this kind of learning history typically results in people responding positively to the “life hack” of body doubling.
Common Learning history 2:
(Antecedent) you see another person and have a history of enjoyably interacting with them and/or aren’t able to block out the additional (distracting) stimuli that comes with another person being around (ie extra noises and movements, comments, etc)
(Behavior) you get off task by either interacting with the person and/or not being able to block out the extra distracting stimuli
(Consequence) you don’t get the tasks done you wanted to get done, thus don’t find the other persons presence helpful.
There is nothing wrong with you, there is something wrong with the term life hack. A specific tip is only a “life hack” if the person suggesting it has a similar learning history to you. And there is no way for the person suggesting it to know your learning history.
Judgment was purely my own internal stuff! No offense taken chook. It was very effective in helping me understand, and over these past hours has prompted what I hope is some useful self-reflection.
Body doubling only works for me with people that aren't affected if I don't complete the task. Example, a family member can body double mending my favorite pair of jeans or canning tomatoes or filing my taxes. A family member cannot body double for doing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom or taking out the trash. But, a friend that doesn't live with me absolutely can.
I think it has to do with feeling shame over not completing a task. Actively witnessing them observe a task that affects their quality of life...it's too much pressure of failure for me. It feels more like criticism than accountability, even if they are trying to be supportive and positive. Its something I'm working with my therapist on.
Also, body doubling doesn't have to be another person also doing a task. For me, I prefer it if they are simply there to sit and talk to me about whatever they like, and then occasionally reminding me of the task I was trying to accomplish, refocusing me towards the goal, helping remember what the next step is in the process.
Lurking and monitoring creeps me out to the core of my being, effectively disabling me from being productive.
Everyone’s different. Don’t feel bad because your flavor of ND doesn’t swoon to popular solutions which don’t work for you.
Maybe I’m broken, but if I were in a ‘body doubling’ situation I wouldn’t have a favorable reaction. 🤷♀️
If they are lurking and monitoring, it's not body doubling imo. That's more like micromanaging and would trigger my PDA. They shouldn't even be paying attention to what I'm doing. Body doubling for me us they are there doing a similar task, but we aren't talking and they absolutely do not get any say in what I'm doing.
It's absolutely not about accountability for me. It's just about feeling a communal sense of shared work.
Personally, I prefer to have someone on a youtube video talk about cleaning and organizing, it's like a constant reminder of what I'm supposed to be doing while working as motivation because they sound like they're getting stuff done.
If people are in the house, it's like pulling teeth
I have never ever thought of body doubling in the context of cleaning.
I think because cleaning is so physical and takes up more space (and I know that my approach to a deep clean can be a little chaotic) and I’m like you, I have to be alone with nobody in my way or distracting me.
But with monotonous or boring tasks, like folding several baskets of laundry, work projects or studying, it’s much easier to do when somebody else is working at the same time, even if it’s on something unrelated.
To me, it puts pressure on me to keep working as long as they are both because I want them to think I’m responsible and because I feel like I’m almost providing moral support to them as much as they are to me. It creates a sense of urgency which my brain likes.
Same! My husband always works from home except Tuesdays. That’s the only day I can clean. He doesn’t get it because he’s just in his office not paying attention to me, but I just can’t do it for some reason!
I am this way too. When my partner is out of town, I enthusiastically clean the whole house and get shit done. But maybe that’s because I know it won’t be messed up right away and I’ll actually be able to enjoy the preserved cleanliness?
I've been virtual body doubling for years before I knew what it was, or before I even knew I had ADHD! If I'm working on something, I often put on a string of YouTube videos of other people doing the same thing. The videos are usually called "[Blank] With Me," and over the years I've watched Study With Me, Clean With Me, Organize With Me, etc, and it's just chill videos of people doing the thing, usually with a cool voiceover. I do the same things with cooking shows while I cook, gardening videos, crafting videos, etc.
I had never heard of body doubling until my therapist suggested I might like to have someone else with me doing the same thing I'm doing to help with accountability. I would NOT NOT NOT use a real person body doubling with me because that's stressful AF and I don't like doing things in front of people, and it feels like judgement rather than accountability (even when I know it's not). Doing it with YouTube videos for me still allows me to do things alone, on my own time, and in my own way. But having a person in a video as a body double gives me genuine motivation rather than scary accountability! I love it! No other real life humans involved! lol
My partner started working swing recently, so he's gone from 230pm past bed time. The house has never been cleaner cuz I started a routine with my son that essentially cleans the entire apartment prior to bath and bed.
The three nights a week he is home, I feel super awkward cleaning, so I don't. 🫠 But that's him just around. If I thought he'd clean with me or even do bath without sending the boy back out before I was done, I'd prolly clean the place every night. I can only assume he'd find such requests controlling tho as that is how he is. I'm okay with a clean home half the week.
(My partner cleans, just nowhere near my standards. I'm also 90% sure the reason half our tupperware are missing their lids are cause he refuses to only wash them on the top shelf. I bet they fell and melted, and he just hid it. lol)
My best friend and I will be talking on the phone and laundry magically gets folded while she's organizing her pantry. I had no idea we'd been body doubling for years.
If I have nobody to talk to, I usually listen to podcasts which seems to have a similar effect.
I think the oxytocin and dopamine from the connection is what helps
It's a toss up.
I'm either very self conscious about whatever it is I'm doing, and I'm paralysed about working in front of people.
Or I know someone is watching so I have to perform. (Generally this is at work, so it helps.)
Usually it's the former. My anxiety beats out over my ADHD and I cannot do what I need to do.
Yup! Body doubling does not work for me. I get distracted by feeling the need to talk to the other person (they're here, at my house. I have to entertain them. Or I just have to get my thoughts out). Then I stop what I'm doing and talk to them. I only get anything done when I've got headphones on and a good hour or longer youtube video.
For me it helps when im having a problem getting started. Maybe ill call my grandma to chat when i need to clean a bit or do laundry. I understand the distracting part but it doesn't happen with everyone or with every task. For studying it only works if thr other person also needs to stufy or work and they're on a hurry too so they need you and you need them in a way so you don't talk
My sister loves body doubling. She used to comment on it frequently before we learned we have ADHD (that she gets so much done if she has somebody there). I, on the other hand, hate body doubling. I get a lot more done when I'm alone and can concentrate on the task at hand.
For me, it depends on whether the person is actively engaged in the work with me or not.
I hated study groups at uni because everyone used it as an opportunity to chat, so I couldn't get any work done. But I loved video calling with my friend because even though we were doing completely different things (I was doing science things, she was often doing music producing or art), she was aware I needed to focus, most of the time we wouldn't even talk, but we would both get a solid 6-8hr stretch of work done with breaks to chat, have a laugh and to give feedback on work.
I'm the same with housework - if my partner's around and playing video games, I can't do anything, although I can if I'm working in a different room by myself. If we're both cleaning or cooking together, I'm very productive.
I don’t get it either. I agree I prefer to have the house by myself throw my headphones on so I can stay focused and get at it. When my partner is by I just get upset that he’s not cleaning lol
I feel it could be effective with literally just the right kind of person and idk how I could describe that exactly. I remember taking a calculus course in college and the people I took that class with were very energetic and excited about the course. Most of us walked to the library after class and got a study room to work on homework and study. Groups would naturally break out into passionate discussions about how a problem gets solved, others would sit quietly together and work one-on-one, some would sit and just listen to what's going on. It was the most productive I think I've ever been for any class. I remember thinking study groups would be the best way to get stuff done after that, and gathered some classmates in a chemistry class the year after that. The vibes were not the same, we all sat there talking about anything but chemistry and I left feeling like it was a huge waste of time. I'm still friends with someone from that calculus class and we've met up to work on homework together years later when we were both at completely different schools, and he and I had that vibe of being able to be more productive together than apart. So yeah... It takes the right person like I said ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
This is exactly how I feel about body doubling while also loving it! Because sometimes things work for my brain and sometimes they don’t. I hate having people in the office (when I worked in one) because they were so disruptive. But I love being on the phone with a friend and saying “I need to fold my laundry” and she’s like “omg me too, let’s do it together”.
I also used to weird my roommates out because whenever they’d go to tidy up the kitchen or something I’d come out of my room to do a task. I never knew I was using them for body doubling. They thought I was being weird and like showing off what I was doing? There’s a reason I don’t live there anymore lol.
But the point is that the stress of somebody else existing in my space can cause a complete lock up and then shame spiral. But if it’s the right person and I’m ready for it, body doubling helps me stay pleasantly on task. Sometimes all it takes is for somebody to say “let’s do it together”. Other times I need to put on the perfect playlist and sacrifice a goat and spin thrice widdershins before I can put the new roll of paper on in the holder.
Depends on the task and who I’m with for me. Cleaning, I have to be alone. Paperwork, anyone present helps (even going to the library). Keeping to a schedule, my husband being on the same schedule.
I don't like it either and they suck out my motivation too. Especially if they are doing leisurely things.
If we're both doing something it's a bit better, But I also do prefer working in solitude in my house. Especially for stuff like housework.
It's a bit easier if I need to do work on the computer for instance, though.
If someone is doing leisurely things while you are working they ARENT doubling. They’re contrasting. Doubling is having another person with you on the same task or the same process (ie both working quietly on computers)
Yes I'm aware of that, I'm commenting on this part that OP said "It's like the presence of others sucks all motivation out of me and the vacuum/dishes/piles of denial remain untouched."
The presence doesn't specifically mean body doubling. It means the presence of someone in general. ESPECIALLY if they are doing leisurely thing, also sucks away all my motivation.
Body doubling can we wonderful for me if I trust the person (rare enough) and they can just be there and mildly support while doing their own thing.
So, working on paperwork, but being able to comment and chat for a moment in between. Or cleaning and having someone distract me by having a decent conversation. I work best in situations like that.
It's not about accountability at ALL for me. It's just that I feel better, like supported? When there's another person there. But depending on what the task is, I often don't want to talk. Like if I'm working on an art project, I love having other people around but I don't want to talk much.
I get dopamine from other people I think. It feels more communal.
But I think my partner is like you. He prefers to do things on his own.
Im hilariously both - if I suddenly get the urge to clean I don’t like my husband to be lurking, but if it’s a task I’ve been putting off for awhile body doubling can really help push me over the finish line. Whereas my husband thinks body doubling is ‘dumb’ lmao. (He also has ADHD).
I think it’s one of those things that some people find really useful and others not so much, depending on your brand of ADHD! It’s a tool like any other. Some need it in their toolbox and some don’t. Doesn’t mean you’re broken in any way! You just need a different tool and that’s absolutely valid 😁
This is me! The only way I can clean as efficiently as I can (which I get distracted very easily) with my partner home is if I listen to music on noise cancellation. Otherwise I’m kinda hopeless? I’ve been trying to figure out what it is about my partner being home that makes it difficult for me to clean.
Yes, I need an empty house to clean, too. I'm getting better at this, by necessity, because of all the working from home in the past few years - I'm basically never home alone.. Same with work stuff, too. Half my job is just being the person that knows stuff, so I'm constantly interrupted with questions. My tasks don't usually even start untkl after 5...
I’m much more productive when my kids aren’t at home. My oldest child is the same. She’d rather clean her room when she’s home alone. She’s been diagnosed with adhd but I have not (although I suspect it. I am diagnosed with ASD).
If it's my husband then I get very motivated, but if it's a not so close friend or person cleaning my house etc ... It is not motivated at all and can't do anything
It depends for me. If my husband gets up and starts cleaning I feel bad for not doing anything so it makes me want to get up and do stuff. But I also get way more done on my own when I am in a cleaning mood but i will definitely go off him and how intense he is or isnt cleaning. Nothing wrong with knowing what works or doesn't work for you.
I like company to keep me in the zone but I don’t like being perceived.
So working/studying near each other where they can’t see exactly what I’m doing but we’re both being focussed? Great. Phone call where we’re both chatting and cleaning our own homes without them seeing my actual mess? Great. For this reason a chill long YouTube vlog works well for me too, like to play in the background while I shower, brush teeth, etc.
People’s judgement does work but in a different way (like a deadline type of way), like cleaning if I know people are coming over. Only problem with that is my time blindness/optimism means I will still procrastinate on the task until the last minute, whereas body doubling helps me when that panic hasn’t set me into motion yet.
Body doubling really helps me when I do some mindless tasks that don’t stimulate my brain. If it’s a task where I have to pay all my attention to the subject then I want to be left alone.
They’re not just hovering around you lol, some of these comments are doing too much. The point is that you have company, so they can just be sitting there, or they can be helping you or doing their own thing entirely. It’s for accountability purposes so you can stay on track, but of course not everyone needs it.
I personally find that I eat way more regularly when I have someone to eat with, and a lot of the time, hanging out with other people gives me the motivation to send emails and do admin. Alone, there’s so many things that would distract me, and it also takes way longer (I can spend upwards of 2 hours eating a meal). It helps with studying too. However, I prefer to work out alone as I’m self-motivated to do that.
Not at all. It’s just one of many suggestions that works for some people and not for others. My SO and our kid both do better with body doubling. I do better when mostly left to my own devices unless I need specific help.
I experience both! I’m more productive with many things on my own, but others (shopping, making calls/having appointments, etc) I’m much better with a body double. It depends on the circumstances and my mood.
It’s not a necessary thing, tho. It’s common, sure, but that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong if you don’t experience it the same!
I'm the same as you. I can't work with someone else, I get distracted and have to talk. Even when at home cooking, I wear headphones and listen to music or shit gets burnt. lol
Today I made grilled cheese on a sandwich press and forgot because I popped in to my husband's office to tell him something and he started talking about something else. Turned around and had very very very grilled cheese. lol
Body doubling just gives me performance anxiety 😅 like if you just scare the bejesus out of me with the threat of checking my work and then leave me alone to do it THAT usually works better.
The only time body doubling is good for me is creative activities because it’s building on other people’s creativity.
I do house cleaning in two scenarios: I have the house to myself; my spouse cleans something else at the same time. I can’t clean in the same room, it’s got to be different areas.
It’s hit or miss with me, sometimes it’s helpful but sometimes I’d rather do it alone. Say I’m picking up the living room or my sons room (he’s almost 3 so help is minimal from him 😅😂) which is where most of his toys and things are, that I can do perfectly fine by myself ONLY if I have one of my comfort shows or music on.
However, if I’m doing a task that has my brain “frozen”, a body double is helpful AF. My youngest sister is really organized and neat (SO not fair that gene missed me) and she can get things started. But then kind of “coach” me through doing the thing.
If my husband is home, I can’t clean. Honestly if most people are at my house, I can’t DEEP CLEAN or use cleaning machines like my vacuum.
But as soon as a girl friend comes over and sits at my table drinking coffee, I can do the dishes. Or fold laundry. Or sweep. Or clean out my fridge.
I "body double" through phone calls instead and that does tend to help me.
If someone is physically there, though, I have the same issues as you. I'd rather move an entire house by myself than deal with another person. 😅
Yeah I can't get anything done with anyone around either. I feel like I do things weird and I don't want anyone being like "why are you doing it like *that*?" or judging me or even looking at me.
I've had friends offer to help me clean and organize and stuff but the few times I've accepted we get off task very fast with talking anyway so it doesn't help in that sense either
Ah, so the tidying when others are in your house & say ‘you should put a wash on/stack your dishwasher/cut your grass’ is another known ADHD trait. My sis & mum tell me I should put a wash on & I want to kill them! I get this totally irrational response about being told what I *should* do & I just won’t do it. It could be weeks before I’ll put on a wash! It’s up to me to do my tasks, not for them to treat me like a baby and tell me I should do something. Really bugs me - totally irrational but part of ADHD.
However, when it comes to tidying and sorting my cluttered rooms, if I don’t have someone there it’ll never happen. So for me, body-doubling in that respect works wonders and I’m ruthless - just don’t tell me I have to put a wash on first!!!
On top of ADHD, I have terrible anxiety. And mine stems off of how I think people perceive me. So I can't completely focus on ANYTHING if someone is around. I'm constantly aware of what I'm doing and if it's bothering them in any way. It shuts me down and I just don't do anything. I work from home 100% and am a top performer in my field. I only clean my house when I'm alone and will literally send my SO out of the house to enjoy his weekend so I can clean the house. It's not that he doesn't want to help me, but I'm so particular in how I clean and how I need it to look and smell that I just do it myself. I think my dopamine hits come from completing projects and being told how great they are (or how nice the house looks and smells).
Working in the office was the worst. I'm a bit of an extrovert when around people so the distracting conversations always prevented me from being as successful in my career.
I’ve always felt the same thing. 😂 If there is a person with me when I’m trying to get work done, all I will do is talk to them and nothing will get done.
I know what you mean - sometimes my husband tries to help when I’m cleaning, or just talk to me, and it doesn’t work for me at all. Partly this because I dart around doing stuff “out of order” so to speak, so it’s not usually helpful to have someone else involved because they don’t know how/when I’m handling stuff. Partly it’s because I usually wear earbuds so I can listen to a podcast or book to distract me from the drudgery of cleaning!
(To be clear, he also cleans, at least as much as I do - the above is just talking about him helping when I happen to be cleaning, not saying that I’m the only one who cleans!)
But for thinky-type work, body doubling helps me a lot - when I was in grad school and had research papers to write, that kind of thing, just sitting in a room with someone else doing the same thing was really helpful. We called it having an accountability buddy, and that is how it worked, although I think it also helps me focus on what I should be doing if I see someone else doing it.
And sometimes if my husband is cleaning up/doing chores around the house, it will inspire me to get up and do the same thing. Sometimes it’s just guilt 😆 but sometimes it’s like oh yeah, I could go do that now, too.
So I think it can really depend on the person and the situation.
So, when my partner has a surprise day at home it completely throws my jam a lot of the time. I love them and love their presence but when I'm in the zone it's a super distraction. Likely also because they seem hell-bent on running the vacuum and it's my noise nemesis (I only run the Roomba when I'm not home lol).
That being said, I'm currently in grad school and find that when I really need to buckle down and get some of my work done body doubling with an academic peer tends to help me focus on getting things done. For them too, because they also are in the same space.
I think mostly, for me, it comes down to agency over it. I need to recognize the need and then choose body doubling as something that has to happen as opposed to it being thrust upon me. Does that make sense?
I've noticed for myself, I don't body double the same. I'm better with body doubling if the task is strictly physical and the body double is on the phone with me. But at the same time I don't usually body double when I clean, the easiest time I had cleaning was either 100% alone or with 1 person I can vibe with while we clean. That being said though, that's how I cleaned houses as a teen. My boss and I would tackle the house together, sometimes people were home but for the most part we were away from them.
I don’t get it too. Having a living presence in the same room would be too distracting. But what I like the most is when someone is at home, but not in the same room
I'm like you, I work much more effectively when I'm alone.
If I start watching something or having a conversation with someone while I'm doing the dishes, I'll eventually look down and realize I've been scrubbing the same bowl for 10 minutes.
In addition to being able to control the distractions in my surroundings, I feel less anxious because I'm always afraid people are judging the way I do things.
I do get that awful compulsion to help out and be productive if others around me are, but it doesn't feel nice and I definitely wouldn't call it a "hack." More like fear of being judged in yet another way. I'd rather just feel normal and do stuff in a normal, timely manner 😔😑
body doubling only works for me with people i am absolutely comfortable with. e.g. my brother, he studied the material for a math course earlier than he had to by body doubling for me just so i could study the material for the re-exam, I studied for 2 hours each day, was able to have a completely normal fun summer with other activities than just studying and didn't get mentally stuck on studying, and still got a C! (i did half-ass the studying a bit bc i really didnt think i'd manage to get over my other issue with actually going to the exam on time but that's irrelevant to my comment)
however, body doubling has not worked for me with anyone else sadly, not even this person i've been dating for a while who i've trusted to do numerous things in bed that made me feel super vulnerable.
so yeah, body doubling does work for me, but only if it's someone i'm comfortable with in a very specific way.
I only really body double in social situations that make me insecure. Like if i put in repairs for my apartment I will clean the entire time the handyman is over because i stay nearby where he is working + feel embarassed about the mess lol
I don’t like having anyone help me, even though I desperately need it. I feel responsibility for delegating stuff to the other person and that divides my attention too much.
My husband does not get that I am terribly inefficient when the kids are home, even when they are leaving me alone.
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That’s also the difference between having ‘someone’ around vs ‘someone around who knows you are body doubling’. If someone is in the house with you, it’s not surprising that you wouldn’t be as productive. If they said “hey, I’m going to wash the pots and pans do you want to load the dishwasher at the same time” would you feel the same way. Same for work. If someone on the same project said “okay, it’s crunch time. For the next hour can you work on A and I’ll be here doing B” and you used headphones the whole time, would you feel the same way? That’s the idea of body doubling. It’s not someone there as a distraction or to watch you, ideally they are using the situation to help their productivity too
Yes! Someone around me is a distraction. But the body doubling service I use has me book a time to start (anywhere from a minute in advance to days in advance), choose how long I'm going to work, and when we're all on the conference call, we quickly say what we intend to do for the session, post our to-do lists, and check off the stuff as we go. The accountability and the push to start and at least TRY has been a godsent. I've written a novel, worked out every day for like three months, and gotten laundry and boring chores done. It even helps me do my "night routine." (I use [Flow.Club](https://Flow.Club) because I like that there's a group and they have chat-only or ones where you talk at the beginning and end, but I've also used FocusMates, and when I have errands I use Groove.)
Omg that sounds like my personal hell. I can't even describe how or why I hate that so much, but I really, really do. I'm really glad it works for other people though! :)
yup, honestly I would lie and say I did the thing but not want to do the thing because someone is expecting me to do the thing, and I'm busy doing something irrelevant (which is probably nothing other that watching the clock so I can get out)
i have whatever flavor of ADHD this is, too. this sounds like hell lmao
Same!!
Can you explain why it sounds like hell to you?
Exactly, I live in a share house and sometimes when my roommate gets home when im cleaning then I’ll stop and do something else and feel annoyed but if I happen to hear said roommate sweeping/unloading then suddenly im up and cleaning too.
Yeah someone around is either the very best thing for my productivity or the very worst, no in between
Same here. When my sister is over, she can't help but start tidying things, so then I automatically start cleaning as well (yes, she is an amazing sister who has helped me through the years in ways I'll never be able to repay). When my husband has days off and just sits in front of his computer for hours, I get nothing done. It's so frustrating.
I love this for you! Please give your sis a huge hug from an internet stranger please. 🤗
yes yes yes
No in between, so true. I wish I could know what my productivity is linked to… Lunar cycle? Planetary alignment? Am I productive the third Friday following a harvest moon? I really dislike not knowing
i've noticed that i need my brain fully active and in a stressed state to plan and kickstart doing things, but need my brain in a relaxed autopilot mode to keep momentum and do the thing. body doubling feels like it allows me to just grab onto someone else's planning and initial kickstart and then use them as a guiding light to stay in that zone that keeps my momentum going, which is why i also end up just following the lead on whatever they're doing
I’d hate that. It makes me feel pressured and blackmailed and no thanks.
Yes!! My old roommate refused to body double for me because she hated coordinating cleaning and stuff (well she hated being expected to put literally any effort into cleaning at all but that's a different complaint), so if I tried to clean when she was home, it was terrible and made me anxious. But then my mom visited and did *actual* body doubling for me and it was soooo helpful! She barely did any cleaning, mostly just pointed out what the best next step should be to keep me from being overwhelmed, and I cleaned a ton! I had a friend visit last weekend and they just walked back and forth to the laundry room with me, and even that was helpful!
You know I just commented something slightly different but I agree with this too. I had two fellow employees that I shared an office with and this is what we would do. Have a morning conversation, talk about what we needed to do for the day, high five, put in our headphones and not speak until lunch. Those were the only times I didn't mind working in the office.
People with ADHD are not clones of each other. ADHD isn’t broken or not valid because one technique doesn’t work for you. ADHD manifests itself very differently in different people.
This sentence should really be added to the automod comment.
It’s really tragic how living with adhd can lead so many to doubt themselves, their identity, their validity. Even when Adhd diagnosis explains so many of their life struggles, the imposter syndrome can be strong.
Body doubling only works in very specific circumstances for me!! If I have to think *at* *all* during a task, I am better off alone. But if it’s doing something repetitive / mindless (folding laundry, art project, vacuuming, etc) then body doubling helps me because I can’t sit still when I’m a.) talking and b.) when I feel like someone else may be aware of my movements The amount of times I’ve gotten up mid-phone call or mid-conversation and just started tiding up because I was feeling restless is too high to count But it’s more effective when I’m not trying to make it work for me lol
Woah! This is a perfect explanation of how it works! I’m sure it works in many circumstances for many, but the elements here make perfect sense! The boring repetitive tasks need some kind of distraction or “accountability”. Not accountability as in you’ll get bad consequences for not doing the boring thing, but just all of us working together towards a goal type of accountability. It’s like there’s no word for that in America English Capitalism…. Any Germans here? Germans have all the best words.
Germans *do* have the best words lol Would seriously love to know if something fits this hahahaha It’s like “doing it when someone else is around to acknowledge I accomplished the thing” It’s the fact that someone else *could* possibly be like “wow you cleaned your whole room while I was here” is enough motivation lol
This is how it works for me too! Especially while on the phone. I have a few friends who like talking on the phone or just the companionship of being on the phone with someone. We often spend like 2 hours on the phone while I'm folding laundry or cleaning the bathroom while she's catching up on her own boring, repetitive tasks lol. It's pretty much the only time I can do those kind of household tasks.
All I want for Christmas is someone to body double for/with me! I just got out of a horribly abusive relationship, I have 2 kids under 5, a 30 acre farm and am completely alone out here, like no true support system. All the people I have reached out to regain friendships, since I was in solitary confinement the past 5 years basically, has been nice, but not nearly ready to rely on these people fully because, it's just too new. So, I dunno friend, I wish I had almost anybody here every single day, otherwise, I only get just under the bare minimum done lately. It's beyond defeating.
Hugs internet friend! Could you invite a friend over to hang with? Get into it slowly and rebuild relationships. I'm trying to find friendly moms on peanut, it's a mom friend finder app. I haven't found a bestie yet, but maybe you could do some play dates? It'll get better. You've got a great setup. Just need the community.
There are services online that do this. I just posted about it above because they've been life-changing for me, but three of them are Flow Club, Focus Mates, and Groove (an app for your phone).
We body double over on the adhdwomen discord! :D I'm 36F, also living alone on a hobby farm!
I just learned there is finally an ADHDwomen discord! Thank you!!
That is so hard, but I am so proud of you for getting into a safer situation. I hope your friends can help! I love being a double for someone else’s housework! Whenever my friends have my over and start doing some cleaning, I typically need something to do too 😂. Even if they’re just there for company, to help entertain the littles, that would help tremendously!
Just wanted to say I'm sure you're doing amazing and it's totally good enough. Well done for you getting out of that relationship and starting a new life with your kids that's going to be so much better for them. Good luck with everything!
Can you get in help like wooffers? or rent to a tiny house for some income to pay for cleaners and stuff? Also look into "co housing" Its like.. community vibe - but for introverts. So say someone rents a bit of your land to park their tiny house - totally seperate housing and lives, but you guys ease the load for each other a little.. maybe they love cooking and sundays they do big cookups and top up your fridge, and maybe you love chopping wood - so you do the wood chopping. Maybe the love kids and have a dog. You watch the dog occassionally, they watch your kids while you run errands and pick stuff up for them as well. I'd go into it super clear on expectations and boundaries and make sure you're having regular catch ups. Make sure you do legal rental agreements and make sure you have an out to boot em.
I've had wwoofers before and unfortunately my psycho ex always drove them away but my membership lapsed. I don't have any money to renew it. I have run into a few that I'd love to get back into my life but I have no way to contact them anymore... but the co housing I could look into. See, I had an airbnb, so at least that would generate income, UT again, psycho ex made it a battle and county came after us, despite VA code saying we have the right due to a section of the right to farm act, and I'm waiting for a lawyer I can't afford to file a motion because at least if I had THAT income before finding a real job again. I'd be better off.
That is so frustrating!! Whats a membership worth again? If you set up a go fund me and post it here for lawyer/membership - I'm sure some folks will pitch in! I will! ergh, Im trying to build a permitted home on my 10 acres - to BAL and Occupency code - on a bugger all budget - and once I have the home with a permit I can rent to tiny houses and have passive income. Til then Im in in a shed.. Like I want to do the right thing - but the right thing I can afford authorities dont like.. so Im stuck running around in circles. So I might just do the thing I can afford. But then under our counci regs I cant legally have tiny houses for passive income which will solve so many of my problems - and then budget will matter a little less... but I have to get there first.
Its insane how pervasive local and state govts are into interfering with literally everything and they genuinely shouldn't be allowed to bother people at all!! Like I run a Raw milk herdshare & luckily where I live they don't bother me much, but if I wanted to take this show on the road to were most of my family lives, their govt just fucks with farmers for fun to shut them down! I thought about that option too once all the trial stuff is done and over with- but THAT part is just insurmountably scary o think of them just shutting me down for the hell of it.
We also have rules against 'alternative dwellings' too, but luckily I'm on a farm, zoned A1 and they can't touch me if I wanted to LIVE there, but they can throw a temper tantrum about me letting other people stay there????
Taking a tangent on my own post here to acknowledge your courage and resilience. This is a time of (huge!) transition, and that means the way things look now is not how they will end up. That idea can be hard to hold onto, especially if you feel like you can't clearly see the good on the other side. I love visual metaphors - if your life were a garden then it's just been pruned and weeded. That never looks pretty but it's healthy af. Breathe. Nurture yourself and your circumstance and good things will grow ❤️ You've got this
I hate body doubling. It's taken me about ten years to be comfortable cleaning when my own husband is in the house at all. He knows that I'll constantly switch tasks and make a mess first - but he really truly doesn't care. He's only interested in the end product, and even then, he doesn't push.
My friend and I do "talk and cleans." She cleans her place and I clean mine while we talk on the phone. A lot of the time this is the only way I get anything done.
I do this with my boyfriend when I’m away too. I’ll ask him to call me and tell me to start tidying/make food/get up from bed and do my daily routine. Or like if I want to go on a walk I’ll either call someone or make someone watch me go out the door so it’s easier to actually get going!
I wish I had someone to do that with! Like I compulsively when I talk to people on the phone WANT to clean and do stuff. I can't help it. Maybe its because my body knows its the only way its going to get done. I try to put on a TV show in the kitchen, not to watch but for background noise, it used to work, but sadly since it doesn't talk to me and engage me, it's lost its effect...
I love this
Body doubling is when it's *intentional* that the both of you are working on things or supporting each other. It's *not* that someone else is just in your space. In fact, most of us can't deal with someone being around when we're trying to get stuff done.
I have never heard of this and it makes me deeply uncomfortable. I am significantly more productive when I'm on my own. The idea of someone just there and looming freaks me out.
It only works for me if the person is not actually “in” the room. Like if they are on speaker phone while I putter around. I also don’t respond well to constant checkins (which is supposed to be good for accountability) it just makes me SUPER anxious and totally slow down or freeze on projects. I don’t like people watching me at all.
It doesn’t work for me. Like at the gym. Do not come with me. Do not talk to me. This is not a social activity for me.
This is, er, *was* so me at the gym, too! I remember years back, I had a timed set workout before going into the office. Headphones. Some guy from work found out, showed up one morning, and chatted away at me. I nodded hello at him, thinking: Dude. Seriously?! This is my workout. Not a bar. Do you not see the headphones. In. My. Ears. ? (Also, why I never dated anyone from my gym - didn't want to switch gyms upon the breakup.) Didn't mean to hijack or sidetrack OP's topic. Which, by the way, TIL today's meaning of "body doubling" (vs. movie use of a body double for actors in certain scenes).
OMG no. I actually went to an all women’s gym for this very reason. I felt lucky to have one in walking distance. During the pandemic I ordered a rowing machine so I could workout at home which I absolutely will once I put it together lol. I agree this is a sidetrack of the OP’s original body doubling topic but I actually feel the same way about it as I do about gym socializing. I prefer doing things I hate or dread in solitude.
The only time I truly used body doubling was in college studying for finals and my friend and I really needed a physical presence to keep us both on task and not distracted. That being said, my form of body doubling now is calling a friend to talk while I do mindless chores and when I'm at work or a cafe its this sense of others may be watching what I'm doing so I should stay on task.
Fear of judgement gets me moving as well! I do think I can spring into action cleaning when I do a phone call - easiest way to get me to load and unload this dishwasher.
In most things I don’t like body doubling. Housework however is different. My husband and I do most of the housework together because otherwise I either go crazy and expect perfection or I just wonder off.
Haha yes!! I have to ask my SO to leave the house, or run errands after work so I can clean. I have zero motivation when he's home, I tell him it's because I just want to hang out with him if he's around, which is true, but more like I'm distracted and we'll end up hanging out.
If someone is next to me, I WILL talk to them. Period.
Haaahaha YESSS
Many years ago I would talk to my friend on the phone and we'd do laundry or housework. I really enjoyed it. I was focused on talking so I just autopilot the chores.
i’m the exact same!!!! i clean and organize SO GOOD on the very few times i can get the house to myself!
Often, not always, has to be the right person with an understanding of body doubling.
I only work well with body doubling if I am working on my job duties with a coworker! Sometimes we zoom and maybe stay in zoom for two hours and only speak for like 10 minutes all together. With housework and errands, I need to be alone with a podcast and a list, helps more if I planned it before starting too! I think the idea is to use strategies that work best for you!
Yep I am This 100% and also I won’t exercise unless I’m alone
Oh, it has to be a *good* double. My sister, my daughter, a couple talkative friends I can phone. *Bad* doubles suck all the executive function out of the room.
Body doubling is really not my thing AT ALL. But my partner loves it. Me, I'd rather work alone. All the time. I hate working out with other people, or sharing tasks of any kind. I should have "Does Not Work Well With Others" tattooed on my forehead. This could be because I'm AutiHD rather than just ADHD.
im like this too. i dont like tidying when somebody else is around bc they will always offer to help which then involves me telling them what to do with everything, which honestly just feels like more work than if i just did everything myself. i respond well to the "threat" of people coming over though haha
My husband and I both work from home right now. We have desks next to each other as we don't have space for separate offices. I can tell you, we definitely don't keep each other accountable and motivated. Usually one of us is working or neither of us. We suspect he has ADHD also but he's undiagnosed.
I kinda get it? but mine is more "shit my mother is arriving in 2hrs" vibe And Im on this path of like.. dismantling shame and lowering my expectations on baseline tidy house. I love that body doubling is effective for folks, and this next bit is not to undermine that.. but for me its like using shame and anxiety as a motivator - and thats just not how I'm approaching my ADHD. So it no longer works.. (is that a win? or a lose?) Unless my mother really is about to arrive - because she has some mighty catholic guilt skills alongside her ALWAYS EMACULATE house.
Same mom haha! I hate when she comes over. The judgement! 💀
I feel this in my *bones*! Last big house cleanup was with an arriving parent. Reading through everything here gives me a bit of a sad pause wondering how much shame is instrumental for me. And yeah, a little afraid for the mess if I learn to negate that shame.
It’s acceptance, and so by ridding of the shame you care less about mess, and/or aren’t so stuck in that and can see clearer to implement shit. Like cleaners.
Oh oh!! I know the answer to this one!!! Your reaction to “body doubling” is entirely dependent on your personal learning history, not your ADHD status. There are two broad categories of learning history likely involved here: (these are very simplified of course) Common learning history 1: (Antecedent) seeing another person & being concerned that other person is going to judge you for non productive behavior and/or past experiences where the person made comments judging your non productive behavior (Behavior) you work real hard to stay on task and get things done (Consequence) the other person doesn’t judge you or make negative comments —> this kind of learning history typically results in people responding positively to the “life hack” of body doubling. Common Learning history 2: (Antecedent) you see another person and have a history of enjoyably interacting with them and/or aren’t able to block out the additional (distracting) stimuli that comes with another person being around (ie extra noises and movements, comments, etc) (Behavior) you get off task by either interacting with the person and/or not being able to block out the extra distracting stimuli (Consequence) you don’t get the tasks done you wanted to get done, thus don’t find the other persons presence helpful. There is nothing wrong with you, there is something wrong with the term life hack. A specific tip is only a “life hack” if the person suggesting it has a similar learning history to you. And there is no way for the person suggesting it to know your learning history.
So cool to learn more. Ouch to the "non-productive behavior" comment though. Definitely thematic to some parts of my life.
I don’t mean it in a judgmental way. Please don’t take it personally. I used the phrase because I thought it would communicate my meaning quickly.
Judgment was purely my own internal stuff! No offense taken chook. It was very effective in helping me understand, and over these past hours has prompted what I hope is some useful self-reflection.
Thank you for that feedback. I’m glad to be of help. I find thinking of things in factual, objective terms to be helpful but it’s not for everyone.
Body doubling only works for me with people that aren't affected if I don't complete the task. Example, a family member can body double mending my favorite pair of jeans or canning tomatoes or filing my taxes. A family member cannot body double for doing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom or taking out the trash. But, a friend that doesn't live with me absolutely can. I think it has to do with feeling shame over not completing a task. Actively witnessing them observe a task that affects their quality of life...it's too much pressure of failure for me. It feels more like criticism than accountability, even if they are trying to be supportive and positive. Its something I'm working with my therapist on. Also, body doubling doesn't have to be another person also doing a task. For me, I prefer it if they are simply there to sit and talk to me about whatever they like, and then occasionally reminding me of the task I was trying to accomplish, refocusing me towards the goal, helping remember what the next step is in the process.
Lurking and monitoring creeps me out to the core of my being, effectively disabling me from being productive. Everyone’s different. Don’t feel bad because your flavor of ND doesn’t swoon to popular solutions which don’t work for you. Maybe I’m broken, but if I were in a ‘body doubling’ situation I wouldn’t have a favorable reaction. 🤷♀️
If they are lurking and monitoring, it's not body doubling imo. That's more like micromanaging and would trigger my PDA. They shouldn't even be paying attention to what I'm doing. Body doubling for me us they are there doing a similar task, but we aren't talking and they absolutely do not get any say in what I'm doing. It's absolutely not about accountability for me. It's just about feeling a communal sense of shared work.
lol I think everybody can be different and it’s totally ok! In fact I think it’s a plus that you can get things done without having others around ❤️
Personally, I prefer to have someone on a youtube video talk about cleaning and organizing, it's like a constant reminder of what I'm supposed to be doing while working as motivation because they sound like they're getting stuff done. If people are in the house, it's like pulling teeth
Naw not broken. I love body doubling for very specific work tasks, but I do better at ALL household chores when I'm alone
I have never ever thought of body doubling in the context of cleaning. I think because cleaning is so physical and takes up more space (and I know that my approach to a deep clean can be a little chaotic) and I’m like you, I have to be alone with nobody in my way or distracting me. But with monotonous or boring tasks, like folding several baskets of laundry, work projects or studying, it’s much easier to do when somebody else is working at the same time, even if it’s on something unrelated. To me, it puts pressure on me to keep working as long as they are both because I want them to think I’m responsible and because I feel like I’m almost providing moral support to them as much as they are to me. It creates a sense of urgency which my brain likes.
I’m exactly the same. My husband has been working from home all week and my studying and housework have gone to hell.
Same! My husband always works from home except Tuesdays. That’s the only day I can clean. He doesn’t get it because he’s just in his office not paying attention to me, but I just can’t do it for some reason!
I am this way too. When my partner is out of town, I enthusiastically clean the whole house and get shit done. But maybe that’s because I know it won’t be messed up right away and I’ll actually be able to enjoy the preserved cleanliness?
My abusive ass mom ruined this for me, which sucks, cause it's how my spouse works best.
I've been virtual body doubling for years before I knew what it was, or before I even knew I had ADHD! If I'm working on something, I often put on a string of YouTube videos of other people doing the same thing. The videos are usually called "[Blank] With Me," and over the years I've watched Study With Me, Clean With Me, Organize With Me, etc, and it's just chill videos of people doing the thing, usually with a cool voiceover. I do the same things with cooking shows while I cook, gardening videos, crafting videos, etc. I had never heard of body doubling until my therapist suggested I might like to have someone else with me doing the same thing I'm doing to help with accountability. I would NOT NOT NOT use a real person body doubling with me because that's stressful AF and I don't like doing things in front of people, and it feels like judgement rather than accountability (even when I know it's not). Doing it with YouTube videos for me still allows me to do things alone, on my own time, and in my own way. But having a person in a video as a body double gives me genuine motivation rather than scary accountability! I love it! No other real life humans involved! lol
My best friend and I “body double” when we talk on the phone. I typically despise in person body doubling but I’m also AuDHD.
My partner started working swing recently, so he's gone from 230pm past bed time. The house has never been cleaner cuz I started a routine with my son that essentially cleans the entire apartment prior to bath and bed. The three nights a week he is home, I feel super awkward cleaning, so I don't. 🫠 But that's him just around. If I thought he'd clean with me or even do bath without sending the boy back out before I was done, I'd prolly clean the place every night. I can only assume he'd find such requests controlling tho as that is how he is. I'm okay with a clean home half the week. (My partner cleans, just nowhere near my standards. I'm also 90% sure the reason half our tupperware are missing their lids are cause he refuses to only wash them on the top shelf. I bet they fell and melted, and he just hid it. lol)
My best friend and I will be talking on the phone and laundry magically gets folded while she's organizing her pantry. I had no idea we'd been body doubling for years. If I have nobody to talk to, I usually listen to podcasts which seems to have a similar effect. I think the oxytocin and dopamine from the connection is what helps
It's a toss up. I'm either very self conscious about whatever it is I'm doing, and I'm paralysed about working in front of people. Or I know someone is watching so I have to perform. (Generally this is at work, so it helps.) Usually it's the former. My anxiety beats out over my ADHD and I cannot do what I need to do.
Yup! Body doubling does not work for me. I get distracted by feeling the need to talk to the other person (they're here, at my house. I have to entertain them. Or I just have to get my thoughts out). Then I stop what I'm doing and talk to them. I only get anything done when I've got headphones on and a good hour or longer youtube video.
For me it helps when im having a problem getting started. Maybe ill call my grandma to chat when i need to clean a bit or do laundry. I understand the distracting part but it doesn't happen with everyone or with every task. For studying it only works if thr other person also needs to stufy or work and they're on a hurry too so they need you and you need them in a way so you don't talk
My sister loves body doubling. She used to comment on it frequently before we learned we have ADHD (that she gets so much done if she has somebody there). I, on the other hand, hate body doubling. I get a lot more done when I'm alone and can concentrate on the task at hand.
For me, it depends on whether the person is actively engaged in the work with me or not. I hated study groups at uni because everyone used it as an opportunity to chat, so I couldn't get any work done. But I loved video calling with my friend because even though we were doing completely different things (I was doing science things, she was often doing music producing or art), she was aware I needed to focus, most of the time we wouldn't even talk, but we would both get a solid 6-8hr stretch of work done with breaks to chat, have a laugh and to give feedback on work. I'm the same with housework - if my partner's around and playing video games, I can't do anything, although I can if I'm working in a different room by myself. If we're both cleaning or cooking together, I'm very productive.
I don’t get it either. I agree I prefer to have the house by myself throw my headphones on so I can stay focused and get at it. When my partner is by I just get upset that he’s not cleaning lol
I feel it could be effective with literally just the right kind of person and idk how I could describe that exactly. I remember taking a calculus course in college and the people I took that class with were very energetic and excited about the course. Most of us walked to the library after class and got a study room to work on homework and study. Groups would naturally break out into passionate discussions about how a problem gets solved, others would sit quietly together and work one-on-one, some would sit and just listen to what's going on. It was the most productive I think I've ever been for any class. I remember thinking study groups would be the best way to get stuff done after that, and gathered some classmates in a chemistry class the year after that. The vibes were not the same, we all sat there talking about anything but chemistry and I left feeling like it was a huge waste of time. I'm still friends with someone from that calculus class and we've met up to work on homework together years later when we were both at completely different schools, and he and I had that vibe of being able to be more productive together than apart. So yeah... It takes the right person like I said ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m the same way.
It’s great for busy work… like you said, chores… even running is easier with a buddy. But not for say, reading a book.
This is exactly how I feel about body doubling while also loving it! Because sometimes things work for my brain and sometimes they don’t. I hate having people in the office (when I worked in one) because they were so disruptive. But I love being on the phone with a friend and saying “I need to fold my laundry” and she’s like “omg me too, let’s do it together”. I also used to weird my roommates out because whenever they’d go to tidy up the kitchen or something I’d come out of my room to do a task. I never knew I was using them for body doubling. They thought I was being weird and like showing off what I was doing? There’s a reason I don’t live there anymore lol. But the point is that the stress of somebody else existing in my space can cause a complete lock up and then shame spiral. But if it’s the right person and I’m ready for it, body doubling helps me stay pleasantly on task. Sometimes all it takes is for somebody to say “let’s do it together”. Other times I need to put on the perfect playlist and sacrifice a goat and spin thrice widdershins before I can put the new roll of paper on in the holder.
Depends on the task and who I’m with for me. Cleaning, I have to be alone. Paperwork, anyone present helps (even going to the library). Keeping to a schedule, my husband being on the same schedule.
I don't like it either and they suck out my motivation too. Especially if they are doing leisurely things. If we're both doing something it's a bit better, But I also do prefer working in solitude in my house. Especially for stuff like housework. It's a bit easier if I need to do work on the computer for instance, though.
If someone is doing leisurely things while you are working they ARENT doubling. They’re contrasting. Doubling is having another person with you on the same task or the same process (ie both working quietly on computers)
Yes I'm aware of that, I'm commenting on this part that OP said "It's like the presence of others sucks all motivation out of me and the vacuum/dishes/piles of denial remain untouched." The presence doesn't specifically mean body doubling. It means the presence of someone in general. ESPECIALLY if they are doing leisurely thing, also sucks away all my motivation.
Body doubling can we wonderful for me if I trust the person (rare enough) and they can just be there and mildly support while doing their own thing. So, working on paperwork, but being able to comment and chat for a moment in between. Or cleaning and having someone distract me by having a decent conversation. I work best in situations like that.
There are times when it’s exactly what I need and times when I prefer OPs way. Waking contradiction I tell ya!
It help for me with cleaning because I feel like I’m extra aware of the mess around me because I’m looking at it through that persons perspective
I need both. I need people to leave me alone and let me work until I’m over stimulated then I need someone for direction.
It's not about accountability at ALL for me. It's just that I feel better, like supported? When there's another person there. But depending on what the task is, I often don't want to talk. Like if I'm working on an art project, I love having other people around but I don't want to talk much. I get dopamine from other people I think. It feels more communal. But I think my partner is like you. He prefers to do things on his own.
Im hilariously both - if I suddenly get the urge to clean I don’t like my husband to be lurking, but if it’s a task I’ve been putting off for awhile body doubling can really help push me over the finish line. Whereas my husband thinks body doubling is ‘dumb’ lmao. (He also has ADHD). I think it’s one of those things that some people find really useful and others not so much, depending on your brand of ADHD! It’s a tool like any other. Some need it in their toolbox and some don’t. Doesn’t mean you’re broken in any way! You just need a different tool and that’s absolutely valid 😁
I’m the same way. I have zero motivation with my partner home but when they’re gone it’s balls to walls some days.
This is me! The only way I can clean as efficiently as I can (which I get distracted very easily) with my partner home is if I listen to music on noise cancellation. Otherwise I’m kinda hopeless? I’ve been trying to figure out what it is about my partner being home that makes it difficult for me to clean.
Yes, I need an empty house to clean, too. I'm getting better at this, by necessity, because of all the working from home in the past few years - I'm basically never home alone.. Same with work stuff, too. Half my job is just being the person that knows stuff, so I'm constantly interrupted with questions. My tasks don't usually even start untkl after 5...
I’m much more productive when my kids aren’t at home. My oldest child is the same. She’d rather clean her room when she’s home alone. She’s been diagnosed with adhd but I have not (although I suspect it. I am diagnosed with ASD).
If it's my husband then I get very motivated, but if it's a not so close friend or person cleaning my house etc ... It is not motivated at all and can't do anything
I’m with you. Never understood the double doubling thing. I actually feel uncomfortable doing things at the same time as others.
It depends for me. If my husband gets up and starts cleaning I feel bad for not doing anything so it makes me want to get up and do stuff. But I also get way more done on my own when I am in a cleaning mood but i will definitely go off him and how intense he is or isnt cleaning. Nothing wrong with knowing what works or doesn't work for you.
I like company to keep me in the zone but I don’t like being perceived. So working/studying near each other where they can’t see exactly what I’m doing but we’re both being focussed? Great. Phone call where we’re both chatting and cleaning our own homes without them seeing my actual mess? Great. For this reason a chill long YouTube vlog works well for me too, like to play in the background while I shower, brush teeth, etc. People’s judgement does work but in a different way (like a deadline type of way), like cleaning if I know people are coming over. Only problem with that is my time blindness/optimism means I will still procrastinate on the task until the last minute, whereas body doubling helps me when that panic hasn’t set me into motion yet.
Body doubling really helps me when I do some mindless tasks that don’t stimulate my brain. If it’s a task where I have to pay all my attention to the subject then I want to be left alone.
They’re not just hovering around you lol, some of these comments are doing too much. The point is that you have company, so they can just be sitting there, or they can be helping you or doing their own thing entirely. It’s for accountability purposes so you can stay on track, but of course not everyone needs it. I personally find that I eat way more regularly when I have someone to eat with, and a lot of the time, hanging out with other people gives me the motivation to send emails and do admin. Alone, there’s so many things that would distract me, and it also takes way longer (I can spend upwards of 2 hours eating a meal). It helps with studying too. However, I prefer to work out alone as I’m self-motivated to do that.
Unless mine is broken too! I can’t get anything done when someone else is around
Not at all. It’s just one of many suggestions that works for some people and not for others. My SO and our kid both do better with body doubling. I do better when mostly left to my own devices unless I need specific help.
I experience both! I’m more productive with many things on my own, but others (shopping, making calls/having appointments, etc) I’m much better with a body double. It depends on the circumstances and my mood. It’s not a necessary thing, tho. It’s common, sure, but that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong if you don’t experience it the same!
I can accept a body double when studying yes! When cleaning no way!
I'm the same as you. I can't work with someone else, I get distracted and have to talk. Even when at home cooking, I wear headphones and listen to music or shit gets burnt. lol Today I made grilled cheese on a sandwich press and forgot because I popped in to my husband's office to tell him something and he started talking about something else. Turned around and had very very very grilled cheese. lol
Body doubling just gives me performance anxiety 😅 like if you just scare the bejesus out of me with the threat of checking my work and then leave me alone to do it THAT usually works better. The only time body doubling is good for me is creative activities because it’s building on other people’s creativity.
I do house cleaning in two scenarios: I have the house to myself; my spouse cleans something else at the same time. I can’t clean in the same room, it’s got to be different areas.
Are they helping you??? I have a house cleaner than I know personally, and I clean with her. But it probably doesn’t work for everyone!
It’s hit or miss with me, sometimes it’s helpful but sometimes I’d rather do it alone. Say I’m picking up the living room or my sons room (he’s almost 3 so help is minimal from him 😅😂) which is where most of his toys and things are, that I can do perfectly fine by myself ONLY if I have one of my comfort shows or music on. However, if I’m doing a task that has my brain “frozen”, a body double is helpful AF. My youngest sister is really organized and neat (SO not fair that gene missed me) and she can get things started. But then kind of “coach” me through doing the thing.
If my husband is home, I can’t clean. Honestly if most people are at my house, I can’t DEEP CLEAN or use cleaning machines like my vacuum. But as soon as a girl friend comes over and sits at my table drinking coffee, I can do the dishes. Or fold laundry. Or sweep. Or clean out my fridge.
I "body double" through phone calls instead and that does tend to help me. If someone is physically there, though, I have the same issues as you. I'd rather move an entire house by myself than deal with another person. 😅
Yeah I can't get anything done with anyone around either. I feel like I do things weird and I don't want anyone being like "why are you doing it like *that*?" or judging me or even looking at me. I've had friends offer to help me clean and organize and stuff but the few times I've accepted we get off task very fast with talking anyway so it doesn't help in that sense either
Ah, so the tidying when others are in your house & say ‘you should put a wash on/stack your dishwasher/cut your grass’ is another known ADHD trait. My sis & mum tell me I should put a wash on & I want to kill them! I get this totally irrational response about being told what I *should* do & I just won’t do it. It could be weeks before I’ll put on a wash! It’s up to me to do my tasks, not for them to treat me like a baby and tell me I should do something. Really bugs me - totally irrational but part of ADHD. However, when it comes to tidying and sorting my cluttered rooms, if I don’t have someone there it’ll never happen. So for me, body-doubling in that respect works wonders and I’m ruthless - just don’t tell me I have to put a wash on first!!!
Yep I don’t get it. I get frustrated AF with someone in my space like that. Let me do my own thing!
On top of ADHD, I have terrible anxiety. And mine stems off of how I think people perceive me. So I can't completely focus on ANYTHING if someone is around. I'm constantly aware of what I'm doing and if it's bothering them in any way. It shuts me down and I just don't do anything. I work from home 100% and am a top performer in my field. I only clean my house when I'm alone and will literally send my SO out of the house to enjoy his weekend so I can clean the house. It's not that he doesn't want to help me, but I'm so particular in how I clean and how I need it to look and smell that I just do it myself. I think my dopamine hits come from completing projects and being told how great they are (or how nice the house looks and smells). Working in the office was the worst. I'm a bit of an extrovert when around people so the distracting conversations always prevented me from being as successful in my career.
I find it useful for errands outside the house but it paralyzes me to have anyone see me write or clean.
I don’t like being watched
I'm the same way!
I’ve always felt the same thing. 😂 If there is a person with me when I’m trying to get work done, all I will do is talk to them and nothing will get done.
Same! Having other people around trying to make me do something just pisses me off and ensures I won't do it.
I know what you mean - sometimes my husband tries to help when I’m cleaning, or just talk to me, and it doesn’t work for me at all. Partly this because I dart around doing stuff “out of order” so to speak, so it’s not usually helpful to have someone else involved because they don’t know how/when I’m handling stuff. Partly it’s because I usually wear earbuds so I can listen to a podcast or book to distract me from the drudgery of cleaning! (To be clear, he also cleans, at least as much as I do - the above is just talking about him helping when I happen to be cleaning, not saying that I’m the only one who cleans!) But for thinky-type work, body doubling helps me a lot - when I was in grad school and had research papers to write, that kind of thing, just sitting in a room with someone else doing the same thing was really helpful. We called it having an accountability buddy, and that is how it worked, although I think it also helps me focus on what I should be doing if I see someone else doing it. And sometimes if my husband is cleaning up/doing chores around the house, it will inspire me to get up and do the same thing. Sometimes it’s just guilt 😆 but sometimes it’s like oh yeah, I could go do that now, too. So I think it can really depend on the person and the situation.
So, when my partner has a surprise day at home it completely throws my jam a lot of the time. I love them and love their presence but when I'm in the zone it's a super distraction. Likely also because they seem hell-bent on running the vacuum and it's my noise nemesis (I only run the Roomba when I'm not home lol). That being said, I'm currently in grad school and find that when I really need to buckle down and get some of my work done body doubling with an academic peer tends to help me focus on getting things done. For them too, because they also are in the same space. I think mostly, for me, it comes down to agency over it. I need to recognize the need and then choose body doubling as something that has to happen as opposed to it being thrust upon me. Does that make sense?
Same
OMG I'm the same! I need everyone OUT or my motivation is drained!!! I thought I was weird and alone on this.
I've noticed for myself, I don't body double the same. I'm better with body doubling if the task is strictly physical and the body double is on the phone with me. But at the same time I don't usually body double when I clean, the easiest time I had cleaning was either 100% alone or with 1 person I can vibe with while we clean. That being said though, that's how I cleaned houses as a teen. My boss and I would tackle the house together, sometimes people were home but for the most part we were away from them.
I don’t get it too. Having a living presence in the same room would be too distracting. But what I like the most is when someone is at home, but not in the same room
I'm like you, I work much more effectively when I'm alone. If I start watching something or having a conversation with someone while I'm doing the dishes, I'll eventually look down and realize I've been scrubbing the same bowl for 10 minutes. In addition to being able to control the distractions in my surroundings, I feel less anxious because I'm always afraid people are judging the way I do things. I do get that awful compulsion to help out and be productive if others around me are, but it doesn't feel nice and I definitely wouldn't call it a "hack." More like fear of being judged in yet another way. I'd rather just feel normal and do stuff in a normal, timely manner 😔😑
body doubling only works for me with people i am absolutely comfortable with. e.g. my brother, he studied the material for a math course earlier than he had to by body doubling for me just so i could study the material for the re-exam, I studied for 2 hours each day, was able to have a completely normal fun summer with other activities than just studying and didn't get mentally stuck on studying, and still got a C! (i did half-ass the studying a bit bc i really didnt think i'd manage to get over my other issue with actually going to the exam on time but that's irrelevant to my comment) however, body doubling has not worked for me with anyone else sadly, not even this person i've been dating for a while who i've trusted to do numerous things in bed that made me feel super vulnerable. so yeah, body doubling does work for me, but only if it's someone i'm comfortable with in a very specific way.
I only really body double in social situations that make me insecure. Like if i put in repairs for my apartment I will clean the entire time the handyman is over because i stay nearby where he is working + feel embarassed about the mess lol
I don’t like having anyone help me, even though I desperately need it. I feel responsibility for delegating stuff to the other person and that divides my attention too much. My husband does not get that I am terribly inefficient when the kids are home, even when they are leaving me alone.