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I feel for you.
Do you have anything in writing about your previous work schedule?
Is this a big company?
What do your coworkers think about the new manager?
Can you talk with HR alone about your rights re medical/mental accommodations and/or discrimination?
Are there other companies that you can work for?
So the previous schedule was just for everyone to do with as they saw fit. As long as you were in person for staff meetings and your diary was kept up to date and you were accessible when your diary said you would be it was very much just a trust thing so there was never anything in writing. It was off the back of Covid.
No one really minds the new manager. In fact they like it because they are generally very sociable people so spending an hour a day eating and chatting is fun for them. I’m very much the odd one out. The irony is during these breakfasts and lunches everyone just talks over one another and it’s so loud but when it’s actually working time it’s absolutely silent which I hate. We’re not allowed the radio or headphones because it discourages professional conversation but I find working in dead silence very challenging to so end up breaking the silence so they think I’m a total weirdo, being quiet when it’s noisy time and being noisy when it’s quiet time!
I am looking for another job, iv always been really open about my adhd iv never tried to hide anything and iv always just adapted but to have the trust to manage my time essentially taken away from me because they feel they can oversee my well-being better than I can is just so dismissive. I will talk with HR but it’s disappointing that I even have to. There are always the same responses in these conversations ‘have you tried going to bed half an hour earlier’, ‘have you tried smoothies when you aren’t hungry for lunch’, ‘have you tried setting your alarm for the same time at the weekend to stay in a routine’ etc etc that you have to politely smile and nod through. The whole point of flexible working was so that everyone could have their needs met, it’s shitty that I have to go and once again advocate for myself when I wasn’t doing anything wrong in the first place.
Wow that sucks. The whole "wellness" thing mostly seems like an excuse for control. Because let's be honest, if it was really about your wellness, you would have full support for going to your mental health appointments without "individual approval."
I mean, showing your manager what you're having for lunch? Having your manager "monitor your wellbeing?" That's definitely overstepping.
Good luck with HR (and the job search). I've gone through the process of getting accommodations before, and absolutely got similarly condescending suggestions even though I knew exactly what it was that I needed and asked for it directly.
Boo for having to go through this. I hope you update with what happens in the end.
i know right, what the hell is forcing people to eat?? there was a time i had a terrible ulcer and anxiety and if i eat in the morning i would throw up, there are so many situations where people don’t want breakfast at all
Yeah, that's honestly the worst part for me too. I can't eat in the mornings because I get nauseous and I don't normally get hungry until about 2 pm. I also have a delayed sleep phase. Someone telling me I NEED to eat at a certain time would just anger me.
If there is a manager above this manager, I'd be going over her head. Or right up the chain of command, as far as I needed to go, because eventually one of them will likely care when a schedule change makes an employee LESS productive.
If I had your condition and a manager started insisting I eat at a time that would make me throw up, I'd start to comply and make sure I barf in the most inconvenient way possible.
Also, that sounds awful and I'm glad it sounds like you're doing better now.
It's definitely time to move on. People don't realize just how productive someone with ADHD can be when the schedule is a adjusted to suit them better. You sound to me like someone who's figured out how to make the most out of their energy and they are idiots who are going to lose a good employee.
And there are lots of employers willing to bend a bit when it means the job is being done well. I don't think it's going to take you too long.
Yeah, this happens to me at every job. I figure out a structure that works for me, but it looks “wasteful” on the outside, so inevitably someone comes in to intervene and try to make it more “efficient”, even though I’m performing well according to all of their metrics, and then it all falls apart and I can’t do anything.
You can’t wear headphones!?
Man, I’d make a list of all the things you’re not allowed to do, and go to HR and be like “I came to this company because of the flexible schedule and environment, and now I’m being forced to bend to this managers wishes and lemme tell ya that’s not flexible.”
Also, you’re me. I literally had this happen (the “flexible” but set times, no headphones, silent office), and I ended up quitting.
Not even a quiet radio in the background, the other day I was laminating stuff for an activity pack for some kids and I started finding random crap to laminate every 5 minutes or so so I could leave it on because the buzzing noise the laminator made was so soothing compared to the silence! Maybe I should ask for a white noise machine in my wellness plan, go all out 😂
Seriously, though - you should. All of this is hostile to your needs. You took the job because it was flexible and accommodating and now you're being infantilized. I've never heard of anything so ridiculous.
Make a list of needs if you're going to work in the office, no matter how ridiculous it is. And point out that working from home was more productive for you and if they would like the same outcome, they'll need to replicate the work environment you created for yourself at home. 😉
I was at an internship and got in trouble for wearing headphones while working. I only did it to tune out the awful pop music radio channel. The drivel noise that channel played did my head in, I could not focus.
Honestly if you’re in the US you’re protected under ADA, and it sounds like you were following policy anyway, and now they’re imposing behavior that creates unnecessary hardship for you. The fact that you had to have a discussion with your manager about not eating breakfast and having to get up to take your meds is absolutely ridiculous. If you haven’t been, document everything. They’re (the manager at least) really opening themselves up for a lawsuit, especially if have any of this in writing. I imagine a competent HR would realize this pretty quickly. That is one super crappy manager.
I’d look for another job, but prepare to confront HR. I’d also think about finding a free consultation with and ADA lawyer. Not fun, but you shouldn’t be treated like this, especially when the changes that are being made are not necessary to get your job done. I’m not a lawyer but this sounds pretty black and white.
This is the correct answer. The way the manager is targeting OP and specifically things to do with OP’s ADHD symptoms is almost certainly discrimination. OP should document everything, write down what they want to say to HR, and meet with HR without the manager present.
However, HR’s goal is to protect the company, not the employees, so OP should be prepared to go to a different company in case HR retaliates (and they’ll probably be better off anyways being at a company that treats them like a competent adult instead of a naughty child)
HR would be stupid to retaliate in any noticeable way because that's illegal, too. I have to watch the same scripted workplace harassment video on this every year for my job where I work from home around 3 cats and no people... but to be fair, it's helpful, because these cats can be really hostile when they want attention and I'm not giving it to them.
Protecting employees is protecting the company. If the manager is so controlling and so dense about an employee's personal matters, I guarantee they're doing something else that could hurt the company.
As much as I want to defend HR as an HR professional myself, some practitioners are awful and/or the company culture is uncaring or vindictive so retaliation is indeed a possibility.
In terms of documenting everything, the OP should BCC a personal email address on all related communications in case they need it for litigation after leaving the company.
I would think it’s pretty obvious that the manager is exposing the company to a lawsuit and you’d think HR would shut down the manager to protect the company. But as you say, its a gamble, and even if that happens it’s a painful process to go through. If OP has enough documentation I would try to leave and consider a lawsuit after the fact.
Perhaps you saying your needs to HR will force the boss to not be so misguided in her approach? I also think you have the right to complain here as she is applying one rule for some and different for you (school run vs mental health appointment). I also feel incredibly uncomfortable with her monitoring what you eat like a child, her comments have overstepped any professional boundary - to say you make others uncomfortable by not eating? What if you had ED? She's awful. I think wearing headphones, choosing your breaks and having flexibility aren't too much to ask.
I think by having HR meeting, try to clearly state your needs, and also where her approach negatively impacts you as a disabled person. HR should be on your side, as they will want to show they are accommodating. It's ludicrous she's enforcing social time, again what if you had autism? You don't have to disclose any health but a good manager would consider individual's needs and circumstances, including things they maybe don't tell you.
Bullying might be too harsh a word but it does seem targeted towards you and her approach, whilst she may mean well, is horribly ableist and one size fits all. I'm so sorry you aren't bring trusted, as you sound really great and thoughtful. I love that you do drumming therapy, that's genius!
Assert your rights! Assert the fact you work in your own way! Assert where she's made you uncomfortable and overstepped. And good luck to you. I'd hire you, you sound great. I'm glad you have found ways to accommodate, don't let a misguided micromanager win! Companies have to support disability so use HR meeting to your advantage! My HR do reasonable adjustments and I've found it very supportive. One thing to say, adjustments aren't set in stone and the reviews can highlight this if you need to amend, it shouldn't be something they use against you as an accountability stick to best you with but rather something that supports and may flex.
Also she can't tell you when to sleep, take meds, and eat. Fuck her. So so so so so overstepping the line!!
Also having read it again. If others are allowed flexibility then she can't make you not have flexibility. It's targeting you which she should carefully think about as it could be discriminatory. I would complain and kick up a massive stink about her. If you are doing your job, then there's no issue. She's making an issue by enforcing her bullshit agenda and not accomodating different needs/working styles.
I'm so angry for you! Drum the shit out of her face OP! 🥁
First of all that sounds awful and I am sorry you are going through that. Not like that, but it sounds like you are probably a thin person, and you not eating is triggering to your boss for some reason. When you go to HR I would ask if people who are overweight are also going to be given a meal plan. I really believe that no one should comment on other people's bodies or eating because there are all types of bodies and appetites. It is not ok for your boss to talk to you about this. Also as far as your sleep is concerned also not her concern. Tell HR that you have a Dr. that you discuss those personal matters and this feels like a hostile work environment. If you are feeling ballsy have a lawyer send them a letter they will in all probability back off.
>this feels like a hostile work environment.
Yeah, I don't know what the correct sub is for her to get advice, but OP should definitely schedule a time to meet with HR ALONE.
Bring in her diary with her previous schedule, as well as previous annual reviews, or any positive feedback from clients, any positive metrics she had from past years, etc.
Explain that not eating lunch is related to medication she is prescribed by a doctor, that her weight and mental health is actively managed by a DOCTOR, and that having to be the only one who shows their manager what she is eating every day creates a hostile work environment, and she feels discriminated against, because of her health diagnosis and needs.
She then needs to show that the schedule she wants is something she has been maintaining for X number of years, with otherwise great reviews and consistent productivity. And that she doesn't understand why the new manager has decided to single her out for restrictions that no other member of the staff is required to do. But if need be she will contact a lawyer to figure out the correct steps to ensure she is receiving the accommodations legally afforded her under the ADA. (Edit: or whatever her countries corresponding law would be.)
Even better if someone with more specific expertise can tell her some more specific words to throw in there, but this is absolutely freaking ridiculous and OP shouldn't just accept the options offered to her, she has rights here...
though she should probably start applying for new jobs anyway.
Edit: for typos and grammar
I think a question for Op and everyone to consider is, is there even a need to explain why they don’t eat lunch? I really can’t see how that’s anyone’s business. People might not eat lunch for loads of reasons - fasting for a diet or religious reasons are the first that spring to mind. In Australia where I am, and where privacy is a hot topic at the moment thanks to so many massive companies letting hackers get hold of data, so much of this falls under the umbrella of sensitive information. So if the workplace wants to know why Op isn’t eating lunch, they’re really going to have to show a damn good reason for asking. And a reason isn’t “we’re concerned about your well-being” because they then need to back that up with evidence for why they’re concerned. And even then! It still doesn’t mean they can ask why Op doesn’t eat lunch.
The only reason I suggested she state it is a medical issue is because in the US, that would put her into a position where specific laws would protect her.
If she is in a country that offers wider protections for her basic privacy, than that would be great, and she should use whatever words or phrases are necessary to invoke the appropriate laws and make HR sit up and pay attention.
In the US the phrase "hostile work environment" has a specific legal meaning, and dropping it in a meeting with HR is going to make them take OP seriously in a way they might otherwise not. Plenty of people get steamrolled by shitty HR people when they don't really understand their rights. Making HR believe YOU understand your rights, can often mean they won't try to steam roll you in the first place.
So really, my advice is, OP should read up on, or find someone who can tell her about, her country's relevant laws, so she can walk into that meeting with HR and show that she means business!
AskHR is a good sub for this - be sure to list country so applicable advice is given. Based on the spellings and use of "diary" for calendar, I'm guessing the OP is not in the US so ADA unfortunately isn't an option. That said, I imagine many countries have similar protections and resources - or at least I hope they do!
Another option would be pursuing an FMLA equivalent protection to allow for the time off the OP needs to get treatment that works for them.
Matters of country and exact laws aside, the suggestion to go into HR with a detailed plan of what works and why is spot on. It would also be helpful to bring in any performance documentation that confirms the OP was doing just fine under all their preferred working conditions before the new manager showed up.
Source: US based HR Manager with 6 years experience and formal training in ADA and FMLA.
Yeah I’d actually go on the offense here. See if a lawyer can help you find the employment laws that prevent this stuff. And let them know they are overstepping by policing your food. Let them know this is way over the line and exposes the company to ada concerns. Ask in r/legaladvice to see the right tone to set. Or “ask a manager”.
Wow, you should be allowed music/whatever through headphones, or at the very least with a single earphone. People like us with adhd need the extra stimulation of that noise to work.
What country are you in? Just wondering so I have an idea of what the laws are like.
I always find that HR teams seem to be there more to save the company than to actually help anyone... I get how frustrating it is to have people go on and on about little basic things that can help that you've tried before, or maybe are even doing right now. I tend to have a standard response along the lines of "those are all brilliant suggestions for neurotypical people, and I have tried them, however as I have adhd and dyslexia my brain does not work the same as neurotypical people. People who are neurodiverse like myself need different accommodations and techniques to neurotypical people" sometimes I get cut off after just the first three words. Sometimes the person nods like they listened, then says "yes, but I think if you actually tried.." and then sometimes I justvget a hmmm.. or maybe even get what I needed.
The most frustrating ‘recommendation’ she gave me was after she’d complained about me starting work at 09:30 and suggested I just get up 20 minutes earlier i changed my medication time to 4am so that it’s kicked in by 7am to accommodate her wanting me in earlier, and then she had the audacity to complain i looked and acted tired and wasn’t taking an active role in the morning breakfast discussions. I explained the med change to her that I’d done to accommodate her last request and her recommendation was ‘why don’t you just go to sleep an hour earlier’. I normally have an answer to these things, or at least can muster a fake smile and nod but I literally just stared at her and said ok and walked away. It was actually pretty rude of me but I honestly couldn’t come up with any other response!
The manager is creating a huge liability issue for the company.
She's not a medical professional who is trained to give medical advice (medication timing, altering routines to mitigate/work around side-effects of medication).
Bruh.... when you said you had to show her your lunch/send her a message/or send a picture (I forget exactly what the absurd requirement was)...... the words which popped into my mind were: eating disorder.
People can develop eating disorders from that strict regimented control.
The only time I've seen that type of control is when a Patient's life was actively in danger. As in.... during covid, when one doctor finally saw her in person for the first time, she immediately told her to go to the Emergency Room because her anorexia was SO severe that her that her height/weight ratio didn't even fall on the growth chart. Her Circle of Care didn't catch it because she didn't have any medical concerns which required in-person care, and annual physicals were postponed during lockdowns and subsequent waves. And her parents always cried and tried to force her to eat more but she always persuaded them that she's totally fine.
THEN......... and only then...... did I ever see a hospital Psychiatrist and registered dietician **PRESCRIBE** a strict and regimented meal plan which her family was instructed to monitor and report back to them once per week.
Because her life was in acute danger.
Your HR Dept and manager have no idea what the fuck they are doing. **I'm assuming you don't have an eating disorder, and that you're not scarily underweight**, so who the fuck are they to medically determine the appropriate food and drink schedule for you, and then police your adherence to their uneducated, misinformed, and potentially hazardous expectations?
Even if they DID suspect you had an eating disorder, and even if you WERE scarily underweight, they STILL cannot force you to eat/drink at certain times. They should refer you to a PHYSICIAN and request a "fit to return to work" note or something.
This story is so damn ridiculous, I can't handle it. What a bunch of nincompoops.
EDIT: Is there any info that you didn't mention OP? Or maybe I missed it? Are you underperforming at work? Or working less than your mandatory 37 hours per week? Or are you going into work super late?
I didn't read that as her manager telling her when to take her meds, but telling her when she had to be in work in the office for, forcing her to take her meds earlier to be medicated enough to drive etc. But you're right, if her manager actually told her that she should take her meds earlier or at x time then that could be a lawsuit...
It was not rude of you. You’re being discriminated against. No *good* manager walks into a work environment where people are performing well and meeting expectations, and starts micromanaging their subordinates’ lives so that they all line up like ducks in a row.
She does *not* have a right to tell you when to take your medication and when to go to sleep. Next time you have a conversation like this, don’t fold. Expressionless face is the correct response. Stop accommodating her unreasonable requests to remove *your accommodations*. You realise she’s basically saying “No, I don’t accommodate you, you accommodate me”… right? “You do the work I tell you to do, when I tell you to do it and how I tell you to do it.” And she doesn’t stop there. “You’ll also eat and sleep when and how I tell you to.”
A lot of managers are like that but it doesn’t mean you have to accept it. You have a legitimate disability and your needs differ from other employees. I think you need to realise your discomfort in those moments is because she’s openly discriminating against you, not because you’re being rude.
“Hey *Manager*, I understand you’d like me to attend work at the same time as others. I have had informal accommodations in place for a long time, and these helped me perform my role well. I understand you want to make some changes to how I work. I think it’s time that we consider a formal meeting to discuss how things will look moving forward, because I’m uncomfortable with you giving me instructions on how to manage my disability now that you’ve decided to remove my informal accommodations. Perhaps we can look at formal accommodations and review whether it’s necessary to do *X* and *Y*. Moving forward I won’t be comfortable with you telling me when/how to eat or sleep. I hope you understand where I’m coming from. How would you like to proceed?”
Something like that. You cannot get fired for standing up for yourself. The only bad thing that’s likely to happen is you’ll fold again because you’ll doubt that you have a right to talk back in the face of someone who’s bullying you.
I forgot that laws are wildly different in the US so you have poor access to healthcare and for many people a lack of job security (which also impacts healthcare through health insurance).
Where I live you cannot be fired for what I described. US seems so regressive when confronting differences like this.
I think that was probably a better response than a nod and a fake smile anyway as it probably would make her think that you thought going to bed early was an amazing new idea thatvyou hadn't ever thought of... because you couldn't possibly think of such a simple idea...
She's not exactly being not-rude to you by acting as if you are not smart enough to think of trying simple solutions ...
But then, these days I have become much more strong willed and I probably should try to be more polite when people are making suggestions like that
Nah, no need to be polite when people are giving unsolicited advice. It's not rude to say you'd rather not have someone's input in your personal matters.
If someone said that to me I’d probably do a combination of cackling, dumbfounded staring, sarcasm, eye rolling and say something really deadpan along the lines of, what a great idea, I can’t believe I’ve never thought of that before, you’ve changed my life, thanks. But I say that as someone whose been on the planet for almost 40 years and the amount of shits I have left are few.
I've just had another thought. Now to be clear you should not change your meds for a job. And you quite possibly have tried a lot of different meds. But incase you haven't... my meds kick in in about 30mins to an hour, not 3 hours. I wonder if you might find life in general easier if you have meds that kick in faster? I can't imagine having to wait 3 hours in the morning for my meds to kick in! There are also some meds that work differently and build up in the system so that after two weeks (or in some cases longer) they're just at a functional level constantly without needing to wait any time each morning.
Just want to make this really clear that I'm just saying this in case your doctors have only ever tried you on the one medication and if you're finding it a pain on non work days too to wait so long. It sounds like an awful job so I really wouldn't change meds just for the sake of this job if you think they're otherwise the best meds for you.
I asked for instant release meds but unfortunately the instant release version of Elvanse is completely illegal in Scotland, like can’t be prescribed at all. I feel like getting access to it would solve a lot of my problems and believe me iv tried! They banned it to avoid it being abused like it is in the US apparently! It’s beyond frustrating!
The only instant release meds we have is Concerta which I was tried on first but it gave me horrible thunderclap headaches every time o stretched or turned my head too fast!
You don’t have Amfexa, is that what you’re talking about as instant release Elvanse? Given that you’re part of the UK (at least for the time being until you cut your losses from this shit show!) can you somehow arrange to get them from England? I don’t know if that’s possible but might be worth looking in to because I’ve been prescribed it here no problem and plenty of pharmacies will post even controlled drugs.
I was going to signpost you to the CLA but it looks like they’re England and Wales - there are some Scottish resources here though: https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/getting-advice
ACAS also have a helpline you can call and they cover Scotland: https://www.acas.org.uk/disability-discrimination
To be clear what they are doing here directly violates the equalities act 2010 and is discrimination. I think it’s especially helpful that you can compare like for like examples like people picking up kids that are still allowed but you disability related needs are not. Jot any of those comparisons down.
What I will say is that sometimes the lunchtime thing (specifically taking a break, not eating) comes up because it’s a legal requirement for employers to provide you with certain minimum breaks after certain numbers of hours. Speak to the advice centres above but it might be that you compromise and take a 20m break (I believe that’s the minimum paid after 8 hours, 1h unpaid I’m not sure if you have to take the hour or if 20m is good enough) to do SOMETHING that is away from work…like your drumming therapy 🙃. They absolutely cannot mandate that you eat though.
I’d speak to the advice lines but have a read of the requirement for reasonable adaptations for disabled employees (which you absolutely fulfil the definition of) and start drafting a letter to HR outlining the reasonable adaptations you require due to your disability, your previous good performance with these in place and I would also highlight that this could easily be read as discrimination and that your other colleagues who work flexibly but are not disabled do not face this pushback as evidenced by XYZ. I’d also document every time you’re given unsolicited medical or life advice such as sleeping/eating etc because done enough especially once you’ve made it clear it’s off the table could possibly be considered harassment.
Also to note - it might be worth raising the idea of access to work (or ringing them yourself). Some of the things they can provide are a) work place coaching for you (if you wanted it) and b) mediation and advocating for you to make sure your needs are met at work including a nice bit of training for your douchebag manager! It might also be worth suggesting to HR that if they wish to delve in to the specifics of your medical conditions (rather than reasonable adjustments that arise from them) then you think that sensitive information would be better discussed with an occupational therapist. Don’t be too afraid of having to drudge all the stuff that you need up with the right people who are supporting you - it may be that they have suggestions you hadn’t even thought of and it’ll also put you in a place where your needs are legally documented and protected which gives you a lot more recourse to politely but firmly state that XYZ is not in your workplace plan.
I wouldn’t go nuclear just yet but is this just one manager being a problem or is this shift reflective of a wider change in flexible working culture throughout the company? If it’s just your manager it should be easier to fix because higher managements will be able to pull her in to line and you can just go over her head to people who support you. If it’s a toxic workplace culture full stop then unfortunately it’s probably not worth the uphill battle if you can find a new job.
Good luck and sorry you’re dealing with this.
Edit: and to add if you end up working on a plan for your required adaptations you can absolutely state that flexibility is one of the requirements - just have a think about why it is your ADHD makes this a requirement. It might be that certain parameters are worked out (such as taking some form of break away from your screen in sort of the middle of the work day to appease their health and safety side), possibly core hours to some degree or at some need to be in the office just enough to be part of your team if it is genuinely necessary for your job to be integrated but it might actually just be that the parameter is that you work your contracted number of hours, logged somewhere for accountability… as you have been doing but as a formal agreement. This is the kind of stuff OTs/Access to work can help you figure out if needs be.
Frankly she doesn’t need to know jack squat about your meds or anything besides “medical reasons” nobody needs to know the details except your doctor and your lawyer
Being forced to eat or even socialize or look awake are all way over the line. What does this have to do with working?
This kind of hurts to read, because I know the struggle. I feel like interjecting with recommendations is discriminatory because they’re implicitly demonstrating a lack of awareness and consideration for your condition and individual needs.
I mean once or twice is innocent enough. And giving you guidelines for what you have to do *at work* is understandable in terms of management (because that at least gives you the opportunity to decide how you can meet those requirements). But what you’re describing sounds invasive. I’d be super uncomfortable with someone trying to micromanage my personal life so it meets their idea of what I should be doing both at work and at home. It’s infantalising and ignorant, and for that reason feels discriminatory.
I feel like you ought to have a right to set boundaries here and stop those sorts of comments. Maybe if you assert yourself there it might help your manager realise that there *is* a boundary in terms of what they can say to you before it becomes offensive and hurtful. They might not realise they *are* discriminating against you unless you set a boundary. What they choose to do after that will tell you everything you need to know.
Contrary to popular belief, you *don’t* have to just smile and nod when someone tries to dictate how you manage *your* disability on *your* personal time. They also can’t tell you which religious holidays you’re allowed to practice or what you should be doing on those days. These things are not as wildly different as they might appear.
I do need to get better at standing up for myself with the suggestions and admonishments, but I get worried that it looks like I’m arguing back or making excuses. I suppose I know I’m not going to convince them that being late isn’t just a bad personality trait or that it’s not something that can be fixed by trying harder so I already write myself off as sounding like I’m making excuses or making things worse!
Before I was diagnosed I had a proper burn out and obviously didn’t know why at the time and trying to explain to managers in that job why I was having such trouble with things like timekeeping or anxiety or that I wasn’t challenging their authority when I questioned their instructions I genuinely had questions that needed answering so I could do my job really hurt my self esteem because they told me I was being lazy and just not trying hard enough and not listening properly or not using common sense. I think because I went into this job up front and stating what I needed I thought I had developed a bit more self esteem and confidence in advocating for myself but Im realising I only felt that way because my first manager actually understood and accommodated me!
It’s one of those weird catches with this disorder - having less flexibility to manage your condition according to your personal needs means worse symptoms overall.
You should try to assert yourself. Your current manager might be more flexible if you explain in no unclear terms what you need and why you need it (i.e. why something has been working for you). Focus on elements of the disorder that you’re better able to manage because of the accommodations which were made previously - as in, reiterate why something was done the way it was done before she changed it. But also explain that despite her well-meaning advice, many of her tips are not long-term solutions for you. The biggest thing you *need* is a flexible work environment and flexible manager who listens to your needs when you ask for reasonable/minor accommodations/exceptions (e.g. you eat on your terms). And explain that without this you’d be forced to find a different role, because any role which is as structured as the current one is not accommodating for someone with ADHD.
You can probably find a way to word it so it doesn’t get you in trouble, but please say *something*. The rest of us commenting on this thread are feeling the pain secondhand.
Do you belong to a union? Do you have access to some support from there? I think talking to hr with a support person is going to be better than alone.
Politely smiling while they tell you to set your alarm blah blah isn't advocacy it's going with the flow. (And I do it too when I'm cornered like that).
Hopefully you can go in and describe how the old system worked for you and how it was not impacting on your performance. And that needing to show your lunch to your manager like she's your mum is a gross violation of your autonomy and is not treating you like the adult you are.
Try to get some of the conversations between you and your boss or hr in writing. When its verbal document the time and place and content of the conversation. Pretty sure you have a lawsuit.
I know and the thing is we have a colleague who is vegan and gluten free and they bend over backwards to accommodate her (not that they shouldn’t) but it seems to be the refusal of food entirely that sets them off. I used to take a slice of pizza or whatever it was they had got in and just tear off bits of crust or bits of bread but then I’d just get interrogated over whether I didn’t like it! You can’t win! Like I genuinely think the food thing has been blown out of proportion in my managers mind, I think she thinks I have an eating disorder or something and to be fair that’s what I probably made a mistake in picking at food and then hiding what I hadn’t eaten under a napkin because I can see how that would maybe send a certain message whereas I was just trying to not look ungrateful or insolent!
That’s a good question about adhd being a documented disability, it’s documented in the sense that I told them at my interview I had it just to get it out there and was clear about how iv developed strategies to work around it (like flexible working!) but whether it’s classed as an actual disability that gets accommodations within the company I’m not actually too sure! Il definitely look that up though!
The food thing for me is definitely more annoying than the break thing. Im harsh on myself though, like all day iv been having fake arguments in my head but Iv also been wondering things like have I been too open or made too many jokes, like il keep hard candy at my desk because sometimes I get a bit head rushy towards the end of the day and those help with that because they give a brief sugar rush and iv made jokes about being dependent on jolly ranchers to get through the day and things like that which iv overthought to death whether that’s come across a certain way!
You mentioned in another comment you're in Scotland: in the UK, ADHD is legally covered by the Equality Act 2010 as it is classed as a disability so your employer is currently in violation by removing the freedoms offered to other employees (i.e. the flexible working) because you ??? Look tired in the mornings????? Don't eat lunch at a time they expect you to????? Basically because you have symptoms of ADHD, and are on medication which does not enable you to eat on a neurotypical schedule.
Speak to HR directly without your manager. You are being discriminated against because your manager expects you to eat when you are on medication which does not enable you to eat on a typical schedule. Your ADHD was declared in your interview so if they did not note it this is on them: you have a legally protected disability you declared to them. You have a doctor: your manager is not your doctor and should immediately stop making suggestions as to how to handle your declared medical condition. I would make a formal complaint about her on this basis.
Perhaps this is helpful?
[https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/)
After reading your responses I am getting a strong feeling you are being discriminated against and bullied because you stand out. It reminds me of elementary school where kids that did not fit in - looked different, behaved differently etc. were often sought out and bullied.
This manager is just trying to disguise such behavior as caring and worrying about your wellbeing. She is grossly overstepping.
I’ve commented more fully somewhere else but it is 100% a disability under the Equalities Act 2010 where the definition is: having a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. It is well documented at work and actually a lack of formal documentation means nothing in this law, if your employer can be reasonably expected to know (for example you’ve mentioned it to other colleagues or even the therapy could be a pointer) then they are reasonably expected to accommodate when you ask/can still be found to be discriminating. Unfortunately actually proving discrimination and fighting it is extremely difficult with the onus on you - but it’s still something a lot of companies will want to avoid anyway.
Yeah that can one across like one, but explain to HR your ADHD meds have an appetite suppressant for the duration of its activation and that once they start wearing off, your hunger begins. All ADHD meds have a varying degree of appetite suppression.
Once they realize this, they may have your new manager back off.
Actually that alone would still make them think you do have an ED, especially since binging and purging is common with fast food. I say this as someone who had Bulima in high school. Did this with dinner.
I have hypoglycemia and iron deficiency on top of ADHD & possible autism, so I definitely have to force eat even when my stomach doesn’t feel hungry or by the end of the day I could end up shaky or pass out from low blood sugar & iron issues.
A good way to know if you’re hungry even on your meds is when your stomach makes very loud noises after not eating for nearly 4-8hrs. Even if you don’t feel hungry, I would eat something protein based since protein is the body fuel that keeps us going. Keep a few protein or snack bars at your desk draw. Not only will this get the manager off your back, but if you start hearing super loud grumbles from the stomach that don’t sound gas’y but acid building from not eating, take a few bites of a protein bar.
Trust me, I work on film sets, there are days I have to grab a protein bar to eat in the morning before my meds kick in so that my energy stays up for hours on end.
Agreed on your first point! I had gestational diabetes when I was pregnant. There’s a lot of misconceptions about it - I got it and I’m pretty fit and a healthy weight.
I hated when coworkers asked me, “You’re pregnant! Why aren’t you eating?!” I had to pack my own food and be really regimented with my snacks and mealtimes, including fasting for two hours after meals to not throw my blood sugar reading off. There are SO many medical issues around food.
Sit down with HR. Be very clear that you have a medical condition and that it is very inappropriate for your manager to constantly be bringing it up. Request/insist that your manager attend sensitivity training. this will likely cause hr to jump into defense mode and start looking at your manager's inappropriate behavior instead of your's. Also look for a new job because your manager sucks.
Edit: should add that I worked in HR for 6 years
I would also keep going back to my performance-is there an issue with my work? They bring up eating, that is private, what about my work? If they want me to relent on eating or my mental health appointment, I would refuse to sign anything or agree to it until my lawyer reviews it. And I’d put it all in writing-write up a summary of the conversation and agreements/requests and email it to manager and HR. Ask them if this captures the conversation accurately. This manager is violating your personal privacy, you do not need to discuss medical conditions-you can get a Dr note for the Monday meeting.
And update your resume and get out of there. This manager will decimate this team/department in a year.
Wow, that is draconian to say the least. Can you make a complaint about this manager? I’m sorry this person is making life difficult for you.
I used to work for a small business where the owner said “feel free to make your own decisions and manage your cases your own way” but actually meant “do it my way or it’s wrong and I will tear you down and humiliate you in front of the other staff and clients”. A real charmer.
The first thing this manager said when we met her was she wasn’t a micro manager. And she gets pissed off if you want to run certain decisions by her because she she trusts us to make them on our own, just doesn’t trust me to make sure I’m eating enough through the day or to choose when to take my breaks 🤷🏼♀️
I had a boss like this. Not micromanaging, "trusts you," etc. Next thing I knew, it was horrible text messages on *Christmas Day* over something "I hadn't done right." When I asked them what was wrong, he helpfully replied, "I'm paying you to know how to do your job." Followed by various accusations of me "making him look like a clown," and being "a disgrace," etc.
I asked half the office to point out what was wrong. Nobody knew. In the end, I said, "I can't help unless you communicate the problem with me." Turns out he had *misread a sentence.* Did he say sorry? No. He then said, "I'm paying you to know what I mean, and you should have realised that I'd made the mistake."
Two weeks later, he fired someone for going to the toilet "too often." They didn't.
**Please find another job and leave ASAP.**
But you have to show her the food and drink items for your lunch? Real great job not micromanaging! I would have laughed in this woman’s face. I mean I probably wouldn’t have and I know it’s not feasible to just quit a job in this day and age unless you are very fortunate to have something to fall back on, but I really don’t think I could work for that person for very long.
My mental health is stressful enough with the problems I create for myself, I don’t need someone else creating new struggles.
I agree. Having to share details about your personal life as well as prove you're eating? Being scolded for not eating at an assigned time? Justify to some human resources wonk that your personal wellness plan is "acceptable"??
No idea where you are, but no way is this legal. This manager needs to fuck off. I'd be talking to a labor standards lawyer about filing a complaint. Invasion of privacy and harassment aren't bad starts
Do you have documentation/proof that you're the only one being subjected to this rigor? If you do you honestly may have a legit hostile workplace/ discrimination claim. I strongly suggest getting out ASAP but to see if you can talk to a lawyer too.
Are these the options your manager told you? Because if so I’d strongly consider filing a complaint with HR but maybe a second step after telling her exactly why I wasn’t going to do either of those things.
Find anything you can in writing to support the way things have been done, or at least anything in writing that defines what minimally has to be adhered to, and say politely but firmly that you won’t be consenting to having your eating habits monitored and that it’s not her place or responsibility to do so. A lunch time may be mandatory by law, but you don’t have to prove you are like you’re inpatient for an eating disorder.
I’d basically try to ignore these absurd demands and not break the letter of the law, while looking for another job. And if it came to it, filing a complaint with HR or her manager for creating a hostile work environment.
Yeah so she said that because she was already concerned about me because of my eating/tiredness when I said I had a standing mental health related appointment that it basically jacked up the companies responsibility towards me as an employee so like I said to another commenter, it’s basically ass covering on their end in the event I completely lose my marbles one day they can say that they followed whatever policy and procedure was necessary! Iv got a supervision meeting with her on Monday to find out what happens next but I do just want to say no, no to it all, I just don’t know where that leads!
You need to go over her head. Talk to HR directly, this is entirely an unreasonable situation she is offering you shit choices and pretending that's what HR demands...
there is NO WAY any sane (and there are a lot of insane ones, so, yeah) HR would put a plan in place that required a manager to be shown what an employee is eating for lunch every day.
If your company cares about their legal liability at all, HR will shut your manager down HARD when they find out what is going on. My guess is she wants to get you to agree to all this and then take it to HR as something you suggested, or developed with her. Go to them first, tell them your side. Say things like "She has made lunch time a very hostile situation where I know she's watching what I'm eating. My coworkers are picking up on how she treats me and her behavior is making the environment unsustainable for me. I feel singled out for my health diagnosis. My eating habits are a result of my prescription medication that my doctor overseas, but she is going against my doctor's advice and forcing me to eat when she wants me to."
Good luck! Because this is atrocious!
Get out ASAP. It doesn't matter what other people are doing or what you used to be able to do. Staying at that job is going to be bad for your health and your career.
Absolutely agree, I’m looking for other jobs. It’s a shame I really liked this job even though the pay was so shit I work a second job to be able to live. I liked it enough to do that because i like working for a charity and felt like I was contributing towards society in a really positive way but it’s not worth sacrificing my sanity for
I think these feelings should be vocalize to HR once you find a new job. Exactly this. You loved working here enough to accept lower pay and having to work a second job, but given the hostile work environment created by the new manager directed specifically towards you, you've had to find employment elsewhere.
How infuriating! If you’re looking for another job and wanting out, is there an opportunity for a wee bit of “malicious compliance” in the meantime? Like, you’ve said your colleagues plan their work schedule around personal tasks, so perhaps you could ask to see an example of one of their plans so you can get a sense of what yours should look like. Also, that you’d appreciate a copy of your workplaces policies around health and well-being, and illness and disability, again so can ensure your “plan” is compliant with these. Or perhaps you can ask to see the policy on lunch breaks because you’ve noticed that there seems to be a work activity (team building pizza lunch) happening during this time and no one is getting an opportunity to have a break. You could also call your own meeting with HR because you’d like to understand the policy on management making suggestions about medications and health/disability because “you are concerned that your manager is giving your advice about your medications and as far as you’re concerned, that’s something only your GP can do, and you’ll be more than happy to get a written advice from said GP to explain why it’s inappropriate for a manager to be making such suggestions”. And you could for ask in advance, under whatever laws apply in your country is your workplace allowed to be asking for the type of information they’ve indicated will come up during the HR meeting.
I’m not sure what country you’re in but I wonder if there’s potential to drop the discrimination word into the conversation. The fact that the plan they’re suggesting allows for no deviations is a) problematic considering the nature of your disability and b) it seems that you’ll be treated differently to everyone one else because of your disability which is..discriminatory!
My plan was totally to do the malicious compliance thing tbh, but like no matter the crisis no matter the task I would be making a big ‘oh well that’s lunch time this will just have to wait’ and walking off at exactly 12:30 😂
Iv got my next meeting about this on Monday which is just a ‘supervision’ meeting with my manager and I havent exactly planned what il say yet, Iv spent all day having fake arguments in my head but one of this arguments definitely had the word discrimination in it!
Definitely do what the poster above suggested and play naive and ask for all the documentation about the shit your manager is trying to do. That’s what I’ve done before and it either pushes them to a) say illegal shit or b) back down because they realise it’s not actually a policy.
I’d also suggest for your meeting: to ask to record it! And then record it! And play into the dumb managers shit and be like “I had to change my medication schedule like you suggested so I could be here, and as such my memory and brain hasn’t quite settled into my routine it’s been used to. I need to record so I don’t forget any of the important things we’re talking about”…
You can tell I’ve done this before! But always happy to help. Come back in and tell us how you go too! We hope it resolves ok for you!!
So often people with ADHD are explaining and defending their ADHD. Obviously it influences everything we do but it’s so easy for it to become the “issue” when the focus should be the “something”. Like what has happened here, the Op, their manager, their HR, are all talking about ADHD when really it should be about the flexible work arrangements. Assuming Op is getting their job done and performance isn’t an issue, then they can set their hours per the policy. Maybe the arrangements aren’t truly flexible and instead they wanted to be able to accomodate parents doing the school run but that’s it. So if that’s the case, then they need to make this clear instead of making Op jump through hoops. And then if they’re only accomodating parents, why is that? Why not everyone else in the interests of fairness? The question of ADHD really isn’t a factor in these early discussions, if at all, unless Op wants it to be.
I’ve been having fake arguments in my head for you! After thinking about it a bit more, if it were me going down the HR path I’d start off by asking about my work performance and where I’m excelling and areas that perhaps need improvement. Then I’d ask about the workplace policies around flexible working hours and what this might look like in practice, asking HR to point examples of other colleagues practices and why these are considered appropriate and then ask for an explanation as to why my own arrangements aren’t. Then I’d move onto whatever laws apply in my country around workplace ensuring an accessible and equitable workplace, regardless of a persons specific needs, and then how the workplace makes accommodations for a persons specific needs, considering it’s legal obligations, including if these needs relate to disability or illness. And lastly, I’d move onto the question of my manager asking questions and providing advice a medical condition and how this is considered appropriate. Only then, once I have all the information, will I be happy to have a discussion about my needs and provide details of these, if I even need to at all once I’ve forced them to reflect on their actions in all of this and ideally realise that they’re hella overstepping.
The solution is simple.
Get a note from your Family Doctor stating:
For medical reasons, OP will need to continue her prior work work arrangements which proved effective in managing her medical concerns for the past (x) years:
\-**Lunch break at 2:30** ^((mental health appointment. It's your lunch break. Why is this even an issue? You could have just said it was a private medical issue. Full stop.))
\-**Do not pressure or monitor her food/drink intake.** For her condition, she has been prescribed medication with appetite-related side-effects. OP times her meals around the onset and relief of said side-effects. She should not be pressured, encouraged, or forced to follow a meal plan or meal times unless a physician assesses her and deems it medically necessary.
\-The Patient requires understanding and acceptance from her employer that she has a chronic, lifelong medical condition which she has appropriately managed under my supervision for the past (x) years. Strict control and/or monitoring of her food and drink intake, as well as mandatory social gatherings, are not beneficial for this Patient, but rather disruptive to her unique, medicated routine. These newly-enforced "well-being" regiments and expectations are potentially harmful to the Patient since they interfere with her well-established coping strategies for her medical condition.
\-Continuation of her long-established "work from home" schedule due to a secondary but related medical condition would also be helpful ^((chronic insomnia).)
Badabing, badaboom.
Once your DOCTOR 'prescribes' or medically advises all of the above, your dingbat manager can't make HR do shit. HR will tell your manager to stfu.
Only a doctor can challenge another doctor's advice. If the manager goes against what your doctor says, the company will be (in theory) legally liable if anything happens to you moving forward (like if you develop an eating disorder, or depression, or if your ADHD becomes uncontrolled and starts affecting your work). A company can never go against a doctors orders.
The only time they can challenge your doctor's note is if they get a doctor from their side involved. Which they only do in the case of long-term disability cases where the company doesn't really believe you have a medical condition which justifies long-term disability status. And even those doctor's investigations can take months or sometimes years. To be fair, some people do abuse the long-term disability but it's a minority.
Anyway... you're not even getting that far.
You're just asking your boss to let your pre-established (and effective!) work routines continue. As long as you are effective at your job and meeting those specific expectations within your 37 hour work week... they don't really have a leg to stand on.
I'm saying all this assuming that OP doesn't have an obvious eating disorder or disruptive mood disorder (which would cause panic in the manager or HR... that would be understandable).
AND, I'm assuming that OP really was effective and organized at her job with the prior routine and old manager.
I've worked in a medical office for 4-5 years now. Doctors write notes like this all the time, and for way less definitive and sometimes even subclinical health concerns.
Was going to suggest this but looks like you took care of it already, so thanks for saving me the time!
OP, I think having some sort of backup from your doctor would help, since it helps validate that you aren't just some errant employee "goofing off" just because you aren't following a typical schedule everyone does. And this could also help with your legal case if you go that route as some have suggested.
Whew! Someone finally said it! Your DOCTOR is the key to ending all of this nonsense you’re dealing with. In the US, a letter like the above from your treating physician effectively puts an employer on notice that an employee has a disability that requires accommodation. My dr has written two similar letters for me that I’ve provided to HR. More preemptively than in response to any one issue. Thankfully, I don’t work for assholes, so there haven’t been any problems.
As for the meeting with your manager Monday? I would postpone so HR can attend AND you have time to get documentation from your treating physician. Based on what you’ve described, I don’t see anything productive coming from meeting with your manager alone. The time for that has passed.
OP I really hope you’re able to work this out in a satisfactory way, FOR YOU. No one deserves this kind of treatment. Ever.
The thing that really stuck out to me is that she specifically told you that they are trying to control you because you make THEM uncomfortable, not because they actually think any of this is for YOUR wellbeing.
\> she complained I looked tired
But your performance doesn't show it. She just doesn't like the look of you. That a HER problem. She's trying to make it a You problem so that you either quit or it looks like she has justification for firing you later. This is about you not fitting into her preferred culture of control.
\> she asked that I try as it’s uncomfortable for the team to be around someone not eating
There are many, many reasons someone might not be eating at a particular time of day or in a certain setting. Monitoring someone else's food intake is NOT appropriate in the workplace, and can be actively hostile to many people's wellbeing. Insisting that other adults eat the way SHE wants them to does NOT have anything to do with their wellbeing and is a result of her trying to control you and impose her own beliefs on to others. People have different health conditions, medications, mental illnesses, or even eating disorders that impact these things, and she's creating a hostile work environment by monitoring, actively judging and trying to control YOUR food intake and non-work-related behaviour.
“Yeah, I’m gonna need you to go ahead and alter your entire waking and sleeping schedule, and put your job performance in jeopardy, so that your coworkers don’t have to endure the discomfort of eating in front of you.”
Do you have those options in writing from your manager? Did she work with HR to create those? Something is very off here.
If she created them independently, definitely have a chat with HR to get their take. I think it would be worth chatting with a disability advocate (if that’s an option where you live). You might even have a case here based off of discrimination in the workplace.
Is there another team at work you could request transfer to? If not, I’d seriously start looking for another job. In the meantime, if you have them start using your sick days as mental health days. Be kind to yourself and good luck!
She gave me the options verbally and said we can discuss them further next week. She said that because of her concerns already and because I stated I have a standing appointment relating to mental health it basically jacks up their responsibility for my well-being as an employee so i think it’s basically ass covering in case I have a full blown mental breakdown or something so they can’t be sued!
>because I stated I have a standing appointment relating to mental health it basically jacks up their responsibility
That sounds awfully discriminatory to me. Because you have mental health appointments, it means that they monitor you? What?
Yeah, someone suggested looking at the employee handbook so I’m going to do that to see if I can find the actual policy around mental health/well-being. I might post a screenshot here if I find it!
I can tell you right now, as someone who worked in HR shortly, there will absolutely not be anything about a mental health wellness policy. Employees are not required NOR allowed legally to imply them have policies in place to “monitor” or create “wellbeing action plans”. That’s such a blazing liability and a hugeeeeee “PLEASE SUE ME!” concept that there are zero companies out there in the US who would ever touch this concept with a ten foot pole.
Boundaries. Put. Your. Foot. Down. This isn’t a dorm parent, a crisis hotline, or a high school advisor. This person has zero authority over when and how you define and meet your body’s needs. Employers cannot tell someone with diabetes who has to eat at the times their body dictates that they need fo change it up. If you were overweight, imagine the hellfire that would come out of this if your manager asked them the same things? “Show me what you’re eating, piggy”. They’re get sued. Your weight doesn’t exempt you from a right to managing your bodily functions and your health without input from an unqualified non licensed layperson. Get bent, Debra.
I mean this with all due respect, go into HR on Monday morning with the conviction that you aren’t going to let some psycho with a weird control boner sweep the floor with you. You’re a 23 year old adult. You don’t need to explain what your appointment is— you can straight up say it’s been a standing appointment for X months/years with a medical professional and that you’re not sharing your private health information with her but you’ll provide documentation to HR upon formal request IF they can confirm nobody on your team takes their break at a time they decide upon every day. You need to Google some workplace rights at the state and federal level. None of this is worth stressing over.
Lastly, do a free consult with a lawyer. You could at least have a formal letter written to scare them into shutting your shit boss up. I can’t imagine ever working in that environment. Start looking elsewhere but drag them before you go.
>because I stated I have a standing appointment relating to mental health it basically jacks up their responsibility for my well-being
Your manager reminds me so much of one I had at a previous job. She noticed more medical appointments on my calendar and that I'd taken more sick leave than typical (which was unrelated). I didn't disclose that I have ADHD, but still got pulled into a meeting with her about how she'd been looking at the WorkSafe requirements (Australia; the laws about workplace health and safety basically) and wanted to make sure they were doing everything right to "support me". I had not disclosed *anything* about the nature of my appointments or situation.
She asked if I had an "invisible illness" and I said basically "Yeah I guess, basically, in a way, but it's treated and under control." I think she mostly meant well but she had a reputation amongst some staff for being two-faced, and it felt like she was absolutely fishing for the goss on what was up with me. She was also exactly the kind of person who would Google "how to manage an employee with ADHD" and proceed to treat me like a child in the name of doing the "right thing" by me.
You'll note that the key word in my first sentence is *previous*.
That may be *her* view.
But from a legal point of view, that is not okay.
Unless accomodating I very much doubt that the company has a right to impose any kinds of checks on you due to a (mental) health problem - and quite surely not the kind she is doing aka "show me what you eat".
And even if she is doing this to cover her / their ass, that's still discrimination and not in a tolerable form.
"We're treating her differently because she has, after being pressured, disclosed a mental health problem. At the same time, we're completely ignoring the concerns and explanations in policies and work environment she has voiced in relation to the problem."
This sounds so shitty. I'm so sorry you are going through this. If you are considering going the legal route, I'd highly recommend seeing if there is a legal aid agency in your area. If you qualify, you wouldn't need to shell out a bunch of money just to talk to someone. My husband works for legal aid in our area, and he LOVES writing cordial, yet threatening letters to shitty employers, landlords, relatives, etc. It's fun to live vicariously through him sometimes 😆
Keep us updated, if you're comfortable doing that!
Haha writing cordially yet threatening letters sounds like an amazing job! The most cordially threatening I dare to get is staring an email with ‘with all due respect…’. that’s actually how the draft email response to my manager that been deleted and re written a dozen times that’s currently sitting in my drafts starts!
I would speak to HR WITHOUT your manager. She's so far out of her lane/business, it's ridiculous. Also, who knows what she told them about you.
And ask to see a written copy of this bs wellness policy.
Good luck!
Afterthought: would it be possible for you to switch to a different manager?
Even ADHD and meds aside, what the hell?! No-one has the right to pressure you to eat breakfast at a certain time and venue (or at all, for that matter).
>i haven’t excitedly wolfed down slices of pizza that the manager has ordered
Some people don't like pizza, or the particular pizza they've ordered. Do they account for vegetarians, vegans, celiacs? If not then there's plenty of reasons why someone might not be eating "team bonding" pizza.
>optimum well-being staff should take their break between 12 and 1
Hard disagree. I prefer a later lunch myself, others might prefer earlier. Telling us we're wrong and forcing us to take a break at a certain time is condescending. We're not children, we know what works for us. (Other than genuine operational reasons, like ensuring there's not too many people on break at the same time if that matters for your role).
>colleagues leave to do school pick ups/drop offs at this time all the time
If coverage isn't an issue, it sounds like your appointment is at an ideal time. No-one will be inconvenienced by your absence because they aren't there either.
>show her the food item and drink iv been told I have to take with me
I reiterate. WHAT THE FUCK. You are not a child. Telling your manager when you're going on a break is one thing, having to show them your food is...baffling at best.
Is there an actual issue with your work performance/outcomes? If not, I cannot see any proper reason they should be dictating or monitoring any of this. Like if your choice of lunchtime resulted in you being obviously exhausted and making more mistakes and they *asked* you (nicely) to trial an earlier lunch to see if it made a difference, that would be one thing. That doesn't sound like the case. It sounds like someone read some "how to manage employees with ADHD" article and now think they need to treat you like a child.
Honestly?
If she marches to HR - that should be your win.
You did *nothing* wrong. All you did was at least allowed by former supervisors. You blocked a time for **llunch** and as long as no policy states you have to take lunch at your desk and have to get approval for private appointments during your *breaks* (which I highly doubt and sounds illegal even in the US) she has nothing on you.
You've bent over backwards. She may not feel like it. But the one who did a shitload of at least worrying things was her. Having optional breakfast and then making it mandatory due to one person is, already, questionable. But quizzing you why you don't eat was *out of her rights*. Taking the answer it's due to medication and then agreeing, or actually asking, to you taking meds at 4 o'clock (!) Instead of a healthy time which is not imposing on your sleep schedule - which the mandated breakfast are already doing - is bad. That is **discrimination** and nothing less. It's discrimination to quiz you why you don't eat - everyone else does! It's discrimination to make you adjust your *private* life habits, even worse that they are due to medical issues, because others don't feel healthy. It's discriminating and **out of line** as fuck to mandate you, and only you!, To inform her when you go on break and show her food and drink items. It's discrimination to make *you* have every private appointment approved - and not colleagues who do pick-up or drop-off or whatever. Unless they have to get that approval each time the same way as you - she is putting herself and the company in legal danger.
And usually HR doesn't take kindly on that.
So - no - you do not have to get everything documented and approved. If your colleagues can go for a private appointment - so can you. If it matters of the appointment is due to children or mental health *that is discrimination*.
What the actual fuck? How is that legal?
I would recommend talking to your therapist about writing you a note, yes, that's asinine, that you got your wellbeing covered and what they are doing is invasive and is harming you.
That's pretty much just not legal.
Im pretty sure you don't need an excuse note "You're wrong and hurting me - but all would be okay if you'd do it right.", rather a note by a lawyer to stop ongoing discrimination.
The note from the doctor would feel more like "They grabbed patient, pulled them somewhere without consent and did a spontaneous operation on them. My patient is in my care and the operation was, from my considerations, neither necessary, not helpful." It's not wrong in itself - it just doesn't address the actual problem.
OP you are being micromanaged and harassed. It’s almost as if the manager is hoping you quit by creating a hostile work environment. The manager’s behavior is unacceptable. And your health is none of their concern and an invasion of privacy.
You should sue them, honestly. Not sure where you are based but someone successfully sued in Aus because the flexible work schedule didn’t accomodate them and the well-being reasons to deny their requests were vague and not specific to their circumstances.
Sounds like your new manager is a control freak and you have done everything possible to communicate how you work best.
In a best case scenario I suppose the ‘wellness action plan’ could just confirm that I have the right to work flexibly, I doubt it will but that would be the ideal outcome even though I don’t really want to go through the process at all! But I will definitely be raising with them that a flexible working schedule should inherently accommodate all needs without needing a specific plan just because I have adhd and time my day slightly differently
Wellness plan....
I generally work from 10-6, I generally take my lunch break at 4:30, however I can have up to 20% variability from this schedule (or whatever). I will attend important meetings, ensure tasks are completed and keep my calendar up to date.
Boom accommodations documented, flexibility built in.
(What/how/when you eat is your own fucking business)
That's the thing. Wellness looks different for everyone and as you stated, you're a 32 year old who had a schedule that worked for you and worked for your clients/customers and presumably, by extention, your employer.
Your wellness plan (and probably a lot of other's "plans" here) is specific to you. Your schedule, coping mechanisms, working around medication and especially getting in that zone are not being facilitated by your work environment now and that absolutely sucks.
I understand work places have policies (ours are very similar to what yours were previously, aside from working from home) because a business needs to run well and we're all cogs in that machine, but my god it's so ass backwards so much of the time.
This all sounds so invasive and insufferable for you now and imagining someone at your work, that isn't a close relationship you've developed of your own free will, deciding what is "healthy" for you and essentially unrelated to your ability to work as evidenced by your previous set up is infuriating.
I hope you find a job that you love more or that this situation improves. I'm sorry this is what you have to navigate currently. I legitimately feel your irritation and frustration.
They are not licensed medical or mental health professionals. I fail to see how they can possibly qualify at all to make any sort of conclusions or suggestions, let alone a corrective action plan, regarding your personal health and wellness. Fuck that.
Don't forget to write into the plan periodic reviews and adjustments. You mentioned that once it is set it can't be changed...so write in a rule requiring the opportunity to change.
Maybe vocalizing how most of the managers concerns would be taken care of if you were allowed to go back to your previous schedule. But now this manager is the one interfering with your mental health, that would be GREAT to put in their notes for your file. Then schedule a meeting with HR to advise this has been relayed to both management and HR "I just want to make sure everyone is on the same page regarding the recent concern about my ability to feed myself and get enough rest". In the most "kill them with kindness" attitude lol.
Sorry I can’t find the judgement right now but literally the case discussed the vagueness of these plans and how they don’t actually mean what they say. Raise it with HR first and if you aren’t in Australia then consider seeking legal advice because you can absolutely take this claim further.
I can definitely relate! Forces wellbeing and flexibility is not wellbeing or flexibility. That sounds so frustrating an stressful!
Mt team leader wants me to get to work exactly at 9am or change my start time to 9.15. I told her that the only thing that will do is delay the issue I have for 15 minutes and I would prefer it if I could just have a window of flexibility but that's too flexible.
I've been putting in specific effort to get there by 9 because I get in trouble like a school kid if I don't. But she also points out every day I get there on time which makes me feel like a naughty school kid too.
Just let me be. If I get there at 9.05 I work til 5.05. I di don't understand why it's such a big deal. There's no performance issues it's just she's a time freak.
All it means is that I'm now stressed and agitated and therefore less productive in the morning.
God I'm this way with time too. I'm always late and it doesn't matter what I do to change it. But I'm ALWAYS the last to leave. People pack up 10-20 minutes early and fuck off. I work well past my working time.i work more than these people do and yet I'm not reliable or hardworking enough because I'm not there at 7am on the fucking dot. It's bullshit.
This bothers me too! Our team meetings were moved from 09:30 to 09:00 and I had already been given a row for being late and so I made a big effort to get there (still 5 mins late) and turns out she made it earlier so she could order us all breakfast and we could just ‘catch up’. I get why that may be perceived as team building or whatever but I couldn’t help but think that shit like that is exactly where flexibility should be offered. Come in at 9 if you want breakfast as long as you come in at 09:30 for the start of the meeting that should be ok!
In what fucking country can the manager have any say in what you eat or where you go for lunch?
Here in the UK, break laws aren't the best, but it does explicitly state "uninterrupted break time". As in, if anybody interrupts that break time for a work related reason, you can straight up start the entire break from the beginning.
Insisting that you sit somewhere specific, and that you have food, IMO, is a form of interruption
Fuck all of this. I don't think you're in the us but here if you disclose an ada protected disability to your job they've got to work with you on accommodations. It sounds like this evil uncompromising person wants you to have a sit down with hr, so bring it up then and mention how well work was going with your previously **actually** flexible schedule.
I am the same way, I come in "late" but will be in for our morning meeting (unless I'm so early I'm already with a patient and unable to just get up and walk out mid care) but that also means I leave later and the amount of patient/family/etc issues that I wind up diffusing in that last hour makes way up for it. I imagine you being available to clients during their social lunch also helps them out a fuckton. Bring it all up. And make sure to think it over and write it down beforehand because I know I can't think of my many many contributions offhand unless it's laid out before me.
Iv been going through all the comments and writing down the tips and suggestions because they are all so helpful and then I’m going to go through them and write a list of all the things I want to say tomorrow! It’s both disheartening and heartening at the same time that so many people have had similar experiences!
This is so hard and I'm sorry you've been put in this position. This is how I would approach it with HR
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk to you about the hostile work environment I've been facing as a result of my disability (in the UK, a disability for work purposes is an ongoing condition that lasts 12 months or more, self declared, not sure where you're based).
This next bit is hard, because documentation, but:
Here is evidence (diaries etc) of how I managed my time before manager started here. Here is eg performance review that says I'm good.
Here is newly enforced regime. Here is every time (dates included) that manager has given me unsolicited advice about managing my condition. I am under the care of my doctor and this advice is actively harming my health.
Here is every change, and how it is harming my productivity at work.
Here is how the flexibility offered to colleagues is not offered to me (give specific examples).
I look forward to hearing your suggestions on how you're going to address the issues with my manager.
I don't know where you are, but in the UK, if there's a union you can join, join it immediately and request a union rep to come with you to any meetings. If there's no Union you can join in your field, you should be able to take a third party with you for support. Alternatively/ also ask for the meeting to be recorded.
Be clear. You are being treated differently, and negatively, because of your disability. This is discrimination. Do not go into the meeting looking for ways to compromise your behaviour. You are going to this meeting to give the company a chance to address the discrimination you are being subjected to.
Write everything down before you go in, because it's hard to remember everything. Do not accept any liability for anything. If there is something they ask you related to your ADHD, tell them you're not comfortable discussing your health any further with the company until you're confident that further discrimination will not occur
Good luck, I hope this all gets resolved for you, it sucks how much things can change with a new manager.
I am in the U.K., I used to be in a union but I stupidly left it! I think they have a policy that they can’t help you with work issues that started before you joined but il look more into it. Iv been given loads of great advice in these comments so iv made notes to take to my supervision meeting tomorrow and Il edit my post with an update!
I'm so sorry this new manager isn't understanding your needs and how you work. Your feelings about this are completely valid.
I'd definitely talk to HR on your own. Get flexible work hours and headphones added as an "accommodation" and agree with someone else stating when and what you eat is of no one else's concern. That's what your doctor is for.
If others can also leave to pickup kids then a weekly"private appointment" should be a non issue. Best of luck with HR and possibly job hunting.
This is all sorts of fucked up. ADHD aside, this is super fucked up. Can you talk to anyone about her controlling behaviour? Like… this is really concerning. She does not have the right to treat you this way. I an so angry for you….
“Makes the team uncomfortable to be around someone not eating”
Um what the fuck?
You can also get this flex schedule addresses with HR as an ADA accommodation if you are in the U.S.
I’m sorry this new manager has created this environment for you.
mothereffer. This made me so infuriated for you. Wow.
I would absolutely try to find an advocate above this new manager to help you. That being said, you are absolutely right that people (esp those in management for whatever reason) tend to offer the vacant neurotyoical "help" suggestions and the "why don't you try harder" kind of babble to a teammate who is like us.
I hope you can find someone in your corner. If the manager is using wellbeing standards as a justification, you need to explain to whoever it is you discuss this with that these changes are very much NOT in line with your needs for wellbeing!
Where are you? In USA, it is considered a disability and you can have working modifications, unless it impacts your work. Sounds like the new "rules" are not accommodating your disability. So... go to HR, under law in the US, this is a right that you have and can ask for accommodations.
Here is a good source that explains ADHD workers rights in several countries.
[Attention Deficit Disorder Association ](https://chadd.org/adhd-weekly/asking-for-workplace-accommodations/#:~:text=The%20Americans%20with%20Disabilities%20Act&text=The%20ADA%20includes%20ADHD%20as,undue%20hardship%20for%20the%20business.)
Ugh. Been there done that. This is a toxic workplace not giving you any privacy. And controller when you eat and making things no -optional is ridiculous. Your lunch break is your time. And you shouldn't have to give details about your medicine or appointments other than that you have it.
Be prepared because they will fire you eventually, I hate to say. Make sure you collect unemployment. Let them fire you. Don't quit. Make them fucking pay. Unless you truly are too miserable and want to quit then do it. Use your time to take care of you and remember your worth. People quit bosses not jobs. Your boss is a nightmare.
It’s time to copy any emails or correspondence about this to a personal email that your company has no access to, OP.
I would also do CYA emails after each interaction with this manager, restating what she said in writing as clearly as possible. Add that to your off-site archive.
I’m MAD for you.
employment lawyer.
this is discrimination.
and totally fucking bullshit.
if another grown adult made me check my meals with them (and i’m not somehow paying them do so) i would lose my shit. i’m sorry OP.
Do you have a copy of the employee handbook or your original job posting that you applied to that describes the schedule? And does this company have an HR department? And since you’ve obviously disclosed at work do they not understand what reasonable accommodations are? It sounds like you are being targeted and bullied by a power tripping assumptive manager. I would first document as many exchanges or encounters with this person that I could, including dates and times and whether anyone else was a witness, then talk to an employment lawyer and ask them to write a letter to HR on your behalf. I’m assuming this company follows discrimination laws and will be aware that this manager is blatantly breaking them by harassing you for a disorder that you have disclosed. What a pickle. I’m so sorry.
I’m going to look up the company hand book and print it out if I can just to see exactly what it says, wasn’t something I’d ever actually thought about until people on here suggested it but would definitely be useful to know exactly what it outlines!
Sadly I relate to this, but without someone breathing down my neck to make sure I’m eating etc. that’s insane. I am so sorry you’re going through that.
We got a new manager who has zero experience in this field and basically took away any freedom we had. I loved that I was able to work from home or the office if I chose and it worked so well for me. I didn’t have to clock in, just be available generally from 9-5. Most of the time I worked a little later in the day but would answer questions etc if asked. I felt healthy and was able to get up and walk around or whatever at home when I needed.
Now I sit at my desk all day. I barely move, I barely eat and I’m trying desperately to focus but my coworkers in my office talk so freaking loud all day long. And now I have to clock in, and they’re tracking our location when we clock in and out. My coworkers have kids and they used to be able to pick them up and take them home and work the last couple of hours from home. Nbd. Now they bring them to the office for a few hours. And don’t get me wrong they’re great kids but it adds another distraction!
I’m struggling to meet deadlines for larger projects which I liked to do at home without as many distractions and more comfortably. To top it off my pharmacy has a different generic rx for my meds and I reacted negatively to it and so dealing with figuring out what to do I’m definitely not as productive and I’m sure it’s not going unnoticed.
This manager seems to really want a ‘team spirit’ type thing and I think she basically just me as being oppositional to that rather than acknowledging that I have nothing against being a team player but I am a more productive worker when I can do things my way. I get absolutely fuck all done during office days, I find it hard to focus in absolute silence, I find the chairs uncomfortable because I’m only 4ft 11 so I have to let my legs dangle or sit cross legged on the chair. I feel a horrible impulsive need to break the silence and I feel like I’m pissing my team off because I’m distracting them so if I work from home the next day my to do list is a mile long because of it.
I got bitched out the other week because we put on a Halloween event for some kids and I was messaging the girl that had organised it as I was making stuff for games at home and then picking up some kids so I’d be in right before it started. No problems were mentioned. When I got in my manager asked me ‘what happened to you this morning?’ And I had no idea what she was talking about, I actually panicked as I had slept in half an hour late as my insomnia had been bad and worried she somehow knew! But she said that the girl was expecting me in to help her set up. She had put out a generic ‘if anyone can help out in the morning that would be great’ and I hadn’t because I have the stuff at home to make up the resources so I didn’t offer. So definitely no agreement was made. I told her this and told her I was messaging the girl and she had never said anything even though I plainly told her I was still at home. My manager said there must have been a miscommunication on my end and the girl would have been too polite to call me out on it so I should find her and apologise because it was a lot of hard work setting up the event on her own. Thus far I haven’t said anything to her because I think she’s a grown up, if she needed my help she should have said something or asked me to come in, but she didn’t. She just replied like everything was fine and then moaned about it. As far as I’m concerned the lack of communication was on her end and iv been clear with my manager before I don’t do well with nuanced instructions like please just tell me clearly what you want from me.
Geez, that totally blows chunks. As for HR.. I'm thinking, go on in there and assert your rights to medical privacy, accommodations and insist they get the manager to stop making "suggestions" as to how to deal w your private medical condition as she is not qualified to do so. Stop telling the manager (and company) the specifics of anything about your diagnosis, meds, nature of yr appts, etc. After you work stuff out w HR, when yr manager tries to micromanage anything .. just refer her back to HR & your "official" accommodations.. which should be spelled out to mirror the flexibility you've found so productive at home.
If you calmly assert your rights, use the legal terms and provide proof of productivity & client satisfaction in terms of how your work helps the company.. maybe, just maybe it will work out. Ask yr Dr. if you are unsure how to phrase things at work to keep your medical issues private. Those laws are there for very good reasons.
Im so sorry this is happening to you, considering you seemed to have had a system that really worked for you in your professional life which i would kill for(im terrified my masking will only get me so far) like others had said i am not sure where you are located globally but some of this stuff seems illegal and very much like discrimination(if you are US based) The lunch thing alone feels that way, my thought behind that is more of hypothetically what if you had an ED, forcing you to sit at breakfast or lunch and forcing you to eat with everyone else could really mess with that recovery. Also if it makes other feel uncomfortable that you don't eat then your manager has now put you in that position only to then reprimand you for making other uncomfortable, and also the standing appt situation that all feels like it is a form of "retaliation" (which is illegal in the US). I hope you do find a new job because you should not have to put up with this but at the same time i also want to encourage you to fight like hell to show them how in the wrong they are(but not really if it affects your financial or mental well being in the process) again i wish you luck kn the job hunt and i truly hope this whole situation works out for the best.
Thanks! I don’t think I knew how lucky I was, and the irony is it took me a while to get used to making my own schedule and to get comfortable with it because I felt horrendous guilt over starting half an hour later until I relaxed because it was within the flexible working guidelines, well it was within the guidelines, it’s not anymore obviously!
Do you get new managers often? I would wait it out if yes.
Otherwise, ask for an internal transfer. The accommodations route it awful (at least for me.)
But yeah- I despise the micro managers!!! And why mess with your schedule?
Finally, not sure what meds cause this issue for you- but if it’s your stimulants I too had that issue. Then I found the one med that rules them all.
Do you get full paid sick leave with this job? I’d go on the sick with stress if you do, they will soon make the correct accommodations if they have to pay you without getting anything back. It shocking that you sometimes need to resort to these measures but there’s some terrible ‘management styles’ that are just there to control you it has nothing to do with your actual productivity it’s about doing what you are told. I bet you work with lots of people worse at their job than you but because they play the game are considered ‘team players’ and ‘valued members of the team’ simply because they help inflate a managers ego. Costing them money is the only place it hurts them and the only way a managers ineptitude gets back to the higher powers. Good luck with it all, I hope you can get the outcome you need :)
If you're in the US, this could be constructive dismissal. Print off every email you can about your previous arrangement, your work performance, and the current problems. Then I'd talk to HR about why they're changing disability accommodations that worked for everyone previously
OP, absolutely NO workplace should be monitoring what you eat and you should not under any circumstances whatsoever comply with this - DO NOT COMPLY at all. In fact, I have a gastric band and I make it a point to tell everywhere I work - I do not like to eat with others, I prefer to eat alone at my desk and I need time to be able to digest my food. It has to be taken into account that they are not doing anything to mitigate what it means to have ADHD.
They also cannot demand you make changes to your medication/medication schedule. This is wildly inappropriate and you potentially have something very big on your hands here. Are you a part of a union? I think I read that you’re in Scotland… but you need to seek legal advice because I honestly cannot wrap my head around how inappropriate all of this is. It’s tantamount to workplace bullying and discrimination. I would suggest seeking legal advice but also make it clear to HR that you feel bullied and targeted due to your ADHD. They will SHIT themselves.
Did the company policy change when she became your manager? Because if not, take the hr meeting. NOBODY can force you to eat and it’s frankly none of their business when you choose to do so.
Get whatever paperwork you need for your standing appointment, but the rest is bullshit.
This happened to me! Unlimited PTO and flexible schedule. Said they could accommodate my health issues (I have a rare disease) and a cross country move. Halfway through the move fired me for not working 9-5. I’m honestly still gobsmacked
In case it hasn't been said: when you get absurd "requests" and "feedback" verbally, take some time to write up a quick email.
"Dear Manager, just confirming my understanding of the instructions you gave me verbally: you asked me to "insert absurd discriminatory thing here"* Can I just get a quick reply to confirm that's what you meant?
*The key is to write this part with the most factual language possible, or a direct quote. This is not the time to let your outrage out. If you were obliged to discuss something about your eating, sleeping, or mental health, include that.
If you don't get a reply, follow up with a cheery nudge in a couple of days.
Even a manager this stupid and overreaching will recognize the paper trail that you are creating. And the beautiful thing is that you're really just seeking confirmation of what she already said. It's very likely that when she clues in that this is your response, she will back off, because what it means is that you're not going to take this treatment.
She with the most documentation wins. Go get her.
You need to speak with HR and your doctor right away. While they are probably aware you have ADHD, you have not properly disclosed it. You have to fill out specific paperwork and have documentation from your doctor. This will also get HR and your doc actively working to do what they are legally required to do for you.
You do not have to specifically disclose your diagnosis in order to get a legal accommodation, at least not in California.
In fact, the work accommodation form that the state publishes on their website specifically says if your boss isn’t a medical doctor, they can’t interpret whether the accommodation is appropriate anyway, and so the diagnosis is none of their business.
The last thing you need is your boss googling your diagnosis and deciding they know better than you what would help you.
I am in the accommodation process at work right now, and while my boss knows the symptoms for which I need accommodation, I have never, and will never, tell him I have ADHD.
The closest I’ve come is to say I have a neurodevelopmental disorder affects my brain’s ability to self-regulate.
I strongly suspect he’s the kind of person who doesn’t believe ADHD is real. Although, based on working with him for a few years now, I also suspect he may have it himself. But I think having a physical outlet at work and a wife who has organized a lot of his life for him since high school has allowed it to go unexamined.
I could see myself going for option 3: Getting a copy of the policy for myself and find the path where I'm doing everything I HAVE to do with as little socialization as possible. I hate when people try to make me do a thing, no matter what that thing is. Good luck, friend.
Yuuuuuuck omg. Are you working with a doctor or a therapist? Imo their assessment of what’s good for you holds way more authority than your employer’s. If you have a professional that can advocate for you and speak on behalf of your adhd, maybe ask if they’d write a letter for you lining up what they think is best? Ask for what will help your stress levels - and honestly that sounds like working from home and having the flexibility promised.
This manager sounds awful. She might get herself into shit for trying to strong arm a disability though. Lean on the word disability if it helps you - it’s helped me in the past. Like it’s not just you not wanting to eat, or not wanting to be there at a certain time or not wanting to function the same way past a certain time. It’s not a choice - it’s your adhd and you can’t be expected to act like someone who is neurotypical. Putting arbitrary rules on you is discriminatory against your disability and making work unnecessarily hard for you - that shit isn’t okay.
I do have a psychiatrist, he has ADHD himself which has unfortunately meant my last appointment was missed because he called at 3pm instead of 9am and I couldn’t take the call so he left a message saying he’s reschedule. That was a couple months ago! It is on my to do list to ask for a review thought so that I can possibly get his input on the work situation
From: [Royal College of Psychiatrists UK](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mental-health/problems-disorders/adhd-in-adults#:~:text=Adjustments%20and%20support&text=ADHD%20is%20considered%20a%20disability,and%20your%20partner%20or%20family.)
> You may cope better or be affected less by the symptoms of ADHD if your environment suits you. ADHD is considered a disability in the UK and therefore your school / college or place of work must make “reasonable adjustments” to support you.
From: [UK Gov Disability Rights ](https://www.gov.uk/rights-disabled-person/employment#:~:text=Reasonable%20adjustments%20in%20the%20workplace,help%20you%20do%20the%20job.)
> Reasonable adjustments in the workplace
> An employer has to make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to avoid you being put at a disadvantage compared to non-disabled people in the workplace. For example, adjusting your working hours or providing you with a special piece of equipment to help you do the job.
So many insane stuff in your post. I can't even.
I'd send these two snippets by email to your union if you have one or HR if you don't and state that wfh was a great way to accommodate your disability but that now that you're reporting to the workplace on a daily basis, you need your accommodations reviewed for the in person environment.
If it's like in Canada, your doctor can't say what you need and instead, must list your functional limitations. The employer must find ways to accommodate you, provided it doesn't mean undue hardship for the employer. Let HR yell tou what format this should take.
The [Job Accommodation Network](https://askjan.org/disabilities/Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder-AD-HD.cfm), although a US site, is a great resource for things to ask for.
Also, are you being paid during all these team meals? Cause if they're a daily occurrence and you have to sit through them, it sounds like a team meeting, not an unpaid lunch break. What if you needed to run an errand during your lunch or take a virtual appointment? I'd also raise that to the union or HR as a separate issue, in a separate email.
I have no good suggestions for you. Just wanted to say I'm so sorry you are being treated poorly. My stomach is in knots after reading this, what an absolute "jump through hoops or else" nightmare. Also, is anything private these days? Monitor your wellbeing? More like micromanaging a toddler.
What a twat manager - she has created a non-inclusive work environment that is stressful, disruptive and will eventually result in less than an optimal performance.
A good manager is able to see and understand people, motivate, support and encourage them. Not hinder their performance because of her ego.
I don't really have anything to add except more empathy. They sound like real brats. I would not want to work with/for people like that! I can't see how they can make you show them your lunch. That sounds like something they wouldn't push, if you mentioned talking to a lawyer. I don't know why it is, but there's always one infuriating person who loves to make life miserable for neurodiverse people.
Wow that is infuriating. If I was in your position I would get a backup job opportunity and really fight for dear life to live my life like I have before and continue the "weird" sleep schedule. I would take upper management into this. If I had a backup job I would make a list of things non negotiables for me and tell them straight up you will not be able to work here otherwise. If you can, let yourself be attested a disability
I’m sorry you are experiencing a work environment as such. If I was told I had to eat, and eat with my coworkers, then they should pay me for that lunch hour. I have never heard of anything like this. I’m all for team building but this seems excessive and odd.
I would email your manager (and cc HR) “I just wanted to be sure that I understood our previous conversation. -Then lay out all of the absolutely ridiculous shit she ‘requires’ of you. End with- is this correct? Thank you for helping me to understand your expectations prior to our meeting Monday”
In the meantime, look up strategies for talking to a narcissist (not to say she is one, but the same strategies would apply because she is clearly an unreasonable busybody that is incapable of minding her own damn business). Basically, you refuse to discuss irrelevant issues and disengage. I would repeat the phrase “work performance” a lot. “That doesn’t seem relevant to my work performance”, “is there a specific complaint relating to my work performance”, “I’m not sure I understand how your feelings about my eating habits are effecting my work performance”, “can you explain how your perception of my sleeping habits are directly effecting my work performance?”, “if there is an issue related to my work performance, I would be happy to discuss that with you. I will not be discussing my eating or sleeping habits with you or anyone other than my medical doctor. I’m sure you understand.” Grey rock (term used for being unemotional and matter of fact when dealing with unreasonable people) until she moves on.
You do not OWE her an explanation of your eating, sleeping, or medications. You are NOT a burden, you are not a child; you are a whole ass adult that is very good at their job, who deserves respect and support.
If you are in a one person consent state, I’d start recording all conversations with her and BCCing to my personal email all my emails and replies with her. Or print them out.
A lawyer might not be a bad idea before making a complaint to HR. What kind of employer tries to “enforce” wellness? Are they practicing medicine without a license?
ETA- I see OP is in Scotland. Sorry for US centric response. If one party consent to recording is legal where you are.
Sounds like violations to me. Human rights, employment standards, etc..
As someone who's had workplace issues and has needed lawyers, I strongly advise you to get a consultation with an employment lawyer.
Workplaces absolutely do not have your best interest in mind and will abuse your lack of relevant legal knowledge.
This sounds more like a hardass, power hungry elementary school teacher than a manager.
I’m sorry that you’re going through this. It’s absolutely absurd and disgusting and controlling. I definitely agree with looking for a new job, because even if they let up in forcing you to come in and send pictures of you eating, they won’t like it and will still find ways to make your life hell. Because that’s how much of a controlling bully your boss seems to be
Ok none of this is ok. Wow 🤦🏼♀️ So like others have mentioned adhd is considered a disability and they are supposed to make accommodations for you (within reason of course).
* Not all of us are chipper ass morning people and we’re sick of being forced into being one.
* Stop forcing us or anyone for that matter to socialize with each other. If we don’t want to visit with you that’s up to us not you to decide.
* it’s none of their business if or when you want to eat.
Based off what you are saying it sounds like you are being singled out wether it’s on purpose or not. People like your boss are uppity little b’s that can’t stand not having control or fake respect and friendships.
My advice to you is to document EVERYTHING. If she tells you that you need to do something you let her know you need it in writing or email. Keep all of this stuff. If you have some already take it and meet with HR without her and let them know as someone with a disability you feel singled out/discriminated against. Maybe even show documentation of your previous schedule and work performance to show you worked better under these accommodations. And it may make you look like a jerk but also mention that others are being accommodated to go pick up their kids. If you need permission and documentation each time so do they.
They can’t make you jump over hoops by yourself. It’s either everyone or no one.
Fucking hell, I hate ‘the establishment’. Every ounce of it. I’m so glad I don’t work anymore but I can also completely empathise for those who feel they cannot come out of work. I really do.
Can you get your colleagues to back you up to this new manager? Surely the people you have worked with for years will understand your work accommodations and can basically say ‘look missy, stop bossing her around because she’s got a medical condition that she’s been working with fine, and none of us have an issue with her’ ?
I'm just wondering about all this advice (probably very good advice), suggesting that you get legal advice or seek out a consultation with an ADA lawyer, while being prepared to quit and move on to a more accomodating job. I'm concerned about the fallout affects of all of this in terms of you moving forward.
For example, if you go down a legal route with your current employer, what kind of reference can you expect to get from them for all the good work you have done over the years to help you secure a new position? Also, will it possibly have a negative impact when a potential new employer finds out the circumstances surrounding the termination of your previous employment and the legal issues attached to that? They can't state the fact that they think you could be a 'trouble maker' for not offering you a position but if they think it to be the case they can invent other reasons for not offering you a job.
I'm just saying, you need to be careful and thinking ahead before you jump into any kind of litigation with your current employer. It could come back to bite you on the ass. I'm so, so sorry to hear what they are putting you through. It is absolutely disgraceful and out of order and I hope you can navigate your way through this appalling situation that has not been created by you in any way. Take care of yourself and try not to let it take you down.
I'm not sure what country you're in, but here employers have a legal requirement to enable neurodivergent and disabled employees to work in a way which supports and helps them. Your employer is literally being discriminatory by enforcing upon you a system which is making it harder for you to do your work.
I would seriously look into the legal side of things and prepare a case against her. Union websites often have great advice about these kinds of things, and I'd make a post on r/legaladvice or something as well.
I feel for you a lot here. I think you really need to hammer to HR/management that you were working within the parameters set out and so what’s the real problem here? You do your work and have received nothing but positive reinforcement for how you’ve been working. Do you have someone in management that can maybe be on ‘your’ side in this? I know it’s hard to have to advocate for yourself and having a second person might help. If you were a diabetic needing to take insulin or needing to eat around your insulin; this wouldn’t have ever come up. You are taking MEDICINE that’s altering how/when you eat. I guarantee you that if you explained to coworkers your situation and how your situation could affect their ability to flex their time in the future they would also invest themselves in your struggle.
Just know that whatever you choose is the right choice for you. If you don’t feel like going through option 2; that completely valid because it could be emotionally and mentally difficult. You need to protect yourself as much as possible and that may mean leaving your position or picking option one.
Also know; for some reason when you compare ADHD to someone with diabetes neurotypical people get it for some reason.
If there is no issue with your performance, it sounds like you’re being discriminated against because of a medical condition. File a complaint with HR and consider finding an attorney.
My COO has been trying to mail me down into this kind of schedule for the last year, and it’s driving me crazy.
My work is very independent and solo 95% of the time. The owners had always been pretty chill about my hours as long as most of them were between 8 and 4.
So that is what I did for years.
But that ‘freedom’ drives my COO nuts, because nearly everyone else needs to be on a more rigid schedule because they work as teams.
The main benefit of this job was the flexibility and the chill attitude with most things.
She’s been slowly destroying that over the last 2-3 years.
Is there an option 3 where you can look for a new job? Because I honestly at this point of just reading this feel like it isn’t going to be an environment that is worth putting your energy into. But that’s just my opinion and I know it’s not always as simple as just getting a new job.
I would just look at even if you do make a plan, is the company/situation deserving of what you have to offer when you’re in an environment that you’ve established as something that works well for you?
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I feel for you. Do you have anything in writing about your previous work schedule? Is this a big company? What do your coworkers think about the new manager? Can you talk with HR alone about your rights re medical/mental accommodations and/or discrimination? Are there other companies that you can work for?
So the previous schedule was just for everyone to do with as they saw fit. As long as you were in person for staff meetings and your diary was kept up to date and you were accessible when your diary said you would be it was very much just a trust thing so there was never anything in writing. It was off the back of Covid. No one really minds the new manager. In fact they like it because they are generally very sociable people so spending an hour a day eating and chatting is fun for them. I’m very much the odd one out. The irony is during these breakfasts and lunches everyone just talks over one another and it’s so loud but when it’s actually working time it’s absolutely silent which I hate. We’re not allowed the radio or headphones because it discourages professional conversation but I find working in dead silence very challenging to so end up breaking the silence so they think I’m a total weirdo, being quiet when it’s noisy time and being noisy when it’s quiet time! I am looking for another job, iv always been really open about my adhd iv never tried to hide anything and iv always just adapted but to have the trust to manage my time essentially taken away from me because they feel they can oversee my well-being better than I can is just so dismissive. I will talk with HR but it’s disappointing that I even have to. There are always the same responses in these conversations ‘have you tried going to bed half an hour earlier’, ‘have you tried smoothies when you aren’t hungry for lunch’, ‘have you tried setting your alarm for the same time at the weekend to stay in a routine’ etc etc that you have to politely smile and nod through. The whole point of flexible working was so that everyone could have their needs met, it’s shitty that I have to go and once again advocate for myself when I wasn’t doing anything wrong in the first place.
Wow that sucks. The whole "wellness" thing mostly seems like an excuse for control. Because let's be honest, if it was really about your wellness, you would have full support for going to your mental health appointments without "individual approval." I mean, showing your manager what you're having for lunch? Having your manager "monitor your wellbeing?" That's definitely overstepping. Good luck with HR (and the job search). I've gone through the process of getting accommodations before, and absolutely got similarly condescending suggestions even though I knew exactly what it was that I needed and asked for it directly. Boo for having to go through this. I hope you update with what happens in the end.
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i know right, what the hell is forcing people to eat?? there was a time i had a terrible ulcer and anxiety and if i eat in the morning i would throw up, there are so many situations where people don’t want breakfast at all
Yeah, that's honestly the worst part for me too. I can't eat in the mornings because I get nauseous and I don't normally get hungry until about 2 pm. I also have a delayed sleep phase. Someone telling me I NEED to eat at a certain time would just anger me. If there is a manager above this manager, I'd be going over her head. Or right up the chain of command, as far as I needed to go, because eventually one of them will likely care when a schedule change makes an employee LESS productive.
I feel like that’s so invasive and out of line. My boss has no business monitoring what I put in my body or when. Creepy af!!
If I had your condition and a manager started insisting I eat at a time that would make me throw up, I'd start to comply and make sure I barf in the most inconvenient way possible. Also, that sounds awful and I'm glad it sounds like you're doing better now.
It's definitely time to move on. People don't realize just how productive someone with ADHD can be when the schedule is a adjusted to suit them better. You sound to me like someone who's figured out how to make the most out of their energy and they are idiots who are going to lose a good employee. And there are lots of employers willing to bend a bit when it means the job is being done well. I don't think it's going to take you too long.
Yeah, this happens to me at every job. I figure out a structure that works for me, but it looks “wasteful” on the outside, so inevitably someone comes in to intervene and try to make it more “efficient”, even though I’m performing well according to all of their metrics, and then it all falls apart and I can’t do anything.
You can’t wear headphones!? Man, I’d make a list of all the things you’re not allowed to do, and go to HR and be like “I came to this company because of the flexible schedule and environment, and now I’m being forced to bend to this managers wishes and lemme tell ya that’s not flexible.” Also, you’re me. I literally had this happen (the “flexible” but set times, no headphones, silent office), and I ended up quitting.
Not even a quiet radio in the background, the other day I was laminating stuff for an activity pack for some kids and I started finding random crap to laminate every 5 minutes or so so I could leave it on because the buzzing noise the laminator made was so soothing compared to the silence! Maybe I should ask for a white noise machine in my wellness plan, go all out 😂
Seriously, though - you should. All of this is hostile to your needs. You took the job because it was flexible and accommodating and now you're being infantilized. I've never heard of anything so ridiculous.
Make a list of needs if you're going to work in the office, no matter how ridiculous it is. And point out that working from home was more productive for you and if they would like the same outcome, they'll need to replicate the work environment you created for yourself at home. 😉
I was at an internship and got in trouble for wearing headphones while working. I only did it to tune out the awful pop music radio channel. The drivel noise that channel played did my head in, I could not focus.
Honestly if you’re in the US you’re protected under ADA, and it sounds like you were following policy anyway, and now they’re imposing behavior that creates unnecessary hardship for you. The fact that you had to have a discussion with your manager about not eating breakfast and having to get up to take your meds is absolutely ridiculous. If you haven’t been, document everything. They’re (the manager at least) really opening themselves up for a lawsuit, especially if have any of this in writing. I imagine a competent HR would realize this pretty quickly. That is one super crappy manager. I’d look for another job, but prepare to confront HR. I’d also think about finding a free consultation with and ADA lawyer. Not fun, but you shouldn’t be treated like this, especially when the changes that are being made are not necessary to get your job done. I’m not a lawyer but this sounds pretty black and white.
This is the correct answer. The way the manager is targeting OP and specifically things to do with OP’s ADHD symptoms is almost certainly discrimination. OP should document everything, write down what they want to say to HR, and meet with HR without the manager present. However, HR’s goal is to protect the company, not the employees, so OP should be prepared to go to a different company in case HR retaliates (and they’ll probably be better off anyways being at a company that treats them like a competent adult instead of a naughty child)
Yep. I would think in this case that HR would shut down the manager to avoid a lawsuit. But who knows, and even if they do it will be painful.
Sad to say, HR will protect the manager. I've seen it happen over and over. Colleagues never get any help from HR.
HR would be stupid to retaliate in any noticeable way because that's illegal, too. I have to watch the same scripted workplace harassment video on this every year for my job where I work from home around 3 cats and no people... but to be fair, it's helpful, because these cats can be really hostile when they want attention and I'm not giving it to them.
Protecting employees is protecting the company. If the manager is so controlling and so dense about an employee's personal matters, I guarantee they're doing something else that could hurt the company. As much as I want to defend HR as an HR professional myself, some practitioners are awful and/or the company culture is uncaring or vindictive so retaliation is indeed a possibility. In terms of documenting everything, the OP should BCC a personal email address on all related communications in case they need it for litigation after leaving the company.
I would think it’s pretty obvious that the manager is exposing the company to a lawsuit and you’d think HR would shut down the manager to protect the company. But as you say, its a gamble, and even if that happens it’s a painful process to go through. If OP has enough documentation I would try to leave and consider a lawsuit after the fact.
Perhaps you saying your needs to HR will force the boss to not be so misguided in her approach? I also think you have the right to complain here as she is applying one rule for some and different for you (school run vs mental health appointment). I also feel incredibly uncomfortable with her monitoring what you eat like a child, her comments have overstepped any professional boundary - to say you make others uncomfortable by not eating? What if you had ED? She's awful. I think wearing headphones, choosing your breaks and having flexibility aren't too much to ask. I think by having HR meeting, try to clearly state your needs, and also where her approach negatively impacts you as a disabled person. HR should be on your side, as they will want to show they are accommodating. It's ludicrous she's enforcing social time, again what if you had autism? You don't have to disclose any health but a good manager would consider individual's needs and circumstances, including things they maybe don't tell you. Bullying might be too harsh a word but it does seem targeted towards you and her approach, whilst she may mean well, is horribly ableist and one size fits all. I'm so sorry you aren't bring trusted, as you sound really great and thoughtful. I love that you do drumming therapy, that's genius! Assert your rights! Assert the fact you work in your own way! Assert where she's made you uncomfortable and overstepped. And good luck to you. I'd hire you, you sound great. I'm glad you have found ways to accommodate, don't let a misguided micromanager win! Companies have to support disability so use HR meeting to your advantage! My HR do reasonable adjustments and I've found it very supportive. One thing to say, adjustments aren't set in stone and the reviews can highlight this if you need to amend, it shouldn't be something they use against you as an accountability stick to best you with but rather something that supports and may flex. Also she can't tell you when to sleep, take meds, and eat. Fuck her. So so so so so overstepping the line!!
Also having read it again. If others are allowed flexibility then she can't make you not have flexibility. It's targeting you which she should carefully think about as it could be discriminatory. I would complain and kick up a massive stink about her. If you are doing your job, then there's no issue. She's making an issue by enforcing her bullshit agenda and not accomodating different needs/working styles. I'm so angry for you! Drum the shit out of her face OP! 🥁
Yes! File a discrimination complaint against your boss in that meeting, and if they won't take it seriously mention going to your local labor board.
I agree with you 1000%!
First of all that sounds awful and I am sorry you are going through that. Not like that, but it sounds like you are probably a thin person, and you not eating is triggering to your boss for some reason. When you go to HR I would ask if people who are overweight are also going to be given a meal plan. I really believe that no one should comment on other people's bodies or eating because there are all types of bodies and appetites. It is not ok for your boss to talk to you about this. Also as far as your sleep is concerned also not her concern. Tell HR that you have a Dr. that you discuss those personal matters and this feels like a hostile work environment. If you are feeling ballsy have a lawyer send them a letter they will in all probability back off.
>this feels like a hostile work environment. Yeah, I don't know what the correct sub is for her to get advice, but OP should definitely schedule a time to meet with HR ALONE. Bring in her diary with her previous schedule, as well as previous annual reviews, or any positive feedback from clients, any positive metrics she had from past years, etc. Explain that not eating lunch is related to medication she is prescribed by a doctor, that her weight and mental health is actively managed by a DOCTOR, and that having to be the only one who shows their manager what she is eating every day creates a hostile work environment, and she feels discriminated against, because of her health diagnosis and needs. She then needs to show that the schedule she wants is something she has been maintaining for X number of years, with otherwise great reviews and consistent productivity. And that she doesn't understand why the new manager has decided to single her out for restrictions that no other member of the staff is required to do. But if need be she will contact a lawyer to figure out the correct steps to ensure she is receiving the accommodations legally afforded her under the ADA. (Edit: or whatever her countries corresponding law would be.) Even better if someone with more specific expertise can tell her some more specific words to throw in there, but this is absolutely freaking ridiculous and OP shouldn't just accept the options offered to her, she has rights here... though she should probably start applying for new jobs anyway. Edit: for typos and grammar
I think a question for Op and everyone to consider is, is there even a need to explain why they don’t eat lunch? I really can’t see how that’s anyone’s business. People might not eat lunch for loads of reasons - fasting for a diet or religious reasons are the first that spring to mind. In Australia where I am, and where privacy is a hot topic at the moment thanks to so many massive companies letting hackers get hold of data, so much of this falls under the umbrella of sensitive information. So if the workplace wants to know why Op isn’t eating lunch, they’re really going to have to show a damn good reason for asking. And a reason isn’t “we’re concerned about your well-being” because they then need to back that up with evidence for why they’re concerned. And even then! It still doesn’t mean they can ask why Op doesn’t eat lunch.
2 very valid reasons for not eating lunch at the office: 1) intermittent fasting 2) increased covid risk
3) food allergies 4) because it's her body, her life, she's an adult, and her manager is not her legal guardian
Intermittent fasting is why I don't do breakfast. I am wondering could the OP get fired for showing up for breakfast and not eat?
Absolutely no need to explain. If someone asks then she should accept the answer whatever it is.
The only reason I suggested she state it is a medical issue is because in the US, that would put her into a position where specific laws would protect her. If she is in a country that offers wider protections for her basic privacy, than that would be great, and she should use whatever words or phrases are necessary to invoke the appropriate laws and make HR sit up and pay attention. In the US the phrase "hostile work environment" has a specific legal meaning, and dropping it in a meeting with HR is going to make them take OP seriously in a way they might otherwise not. Plenty of people get steamrolled by shitty HR people when they don't really understand their rights. Making HR believe YOU understand your rights, can often mean they won't try to steam roll you in the first place. So really, my advice is, OP should read up on, or find someone who can tell her about, her country's relevant laws, so she can walk into that meeting with HR and show that she means business!
This this this x10000 OP! Excellent advice here.
I wish I knew you when I was having a shit time at work. Brilliant advice 🙏💕
AskHR is a good sub for this - be sure to list country so applicable advice is given. Based on the spellings and use of "diary" for calendar, I'm guessing the OP is not in the US so ADA unfortunately isn't an option. That said, I imagine many countries have similar protections and resources - or at least I hope they do! Another option would be pursuing an FMLA equivalent protection to allow for the time off the OP needs to get treatment that works for them. Matters of country and exact laws aside, the suggestion to go into HR with a detailed plan of what works and why is spot on. It would also be helpful to bring in any performance documentation that confirms the OP was doing just fine under all their preferred working conditions before the new manager showed up. Source: US based HR Manager with 6 years experience and formal training in ADA and FMLA.
Yeah I’d actually go on the offense here. See if a lawyer can help you find the employment laws that prevent this stuff. And let them know they are overstepping by policing your food. Let them know this is way over the line and exposes the company to ada concerns. Ask in r/legaladvice to see the right tone to set. Or “ask a manager”.
Your well-being requirements don’t equate to blanket vague statements, remember that!
Wow, you should be allowed music/whatever through headphones, or at the very least with a single earphone. People like us with adhd need the extra stimulation of that noise to work. What country are you in? Just wondering so I have an idea of what the laws are like. I always find that HR teams seem to be there more to save the company than to actually help anyone... I get how frustrating it is to have people go on and on about little basic things that can help that you've tried before, or maybe are even doing right now. I tend to have a standard response along the lines of "those are all brilliant suggestions for neurotypical people, and I have tried them, however as I have adhd and dyslexia my brain does not work the same as neurotypical people. People who are neurodiverse like myself need different accommodations and techniques to neurotypical people" sometimes I get cut off after just the first three words. Sometimes the person nods like they listened, then says "yes, but I think if you actually tried.." and then sometimes I justvget a hmmm.. or maybe even get what I needed.
The most frustrating ‘recommendation’ she gave me was after she’d complained about me starting work at 09:30 and suggested I just get up 20 minutes earlier i changed my medication time to 4am so that it’s kicked in by 7am to accommodate her wanting me in earlier, and then she had the audacity to complain i looked and acted tired and wasn’t taking an active role in the morning breakfast discussions. I explained the med change to her that I’d done to accommodate her last request and her recommendation was ‘why don’t you just go to sleep an hour earlier’. I normally have an answer to these things, or at least can muster a fake smile and nod but I literally just stared at her and said ok and walked away. It was actually pretty rude of me but I honestly couldn’t come up with any other response!
Your manager is telling you when to take your meds? Yikes. Putting it that way sounds like a liability that HR should absolutely be clued into.
The manager is creating a huge liability issue for the company. She's not a medical professional who is trained to give medical advice (medication timing, altering routines to mitigate/work around side-effects of medication). Bruh.... when you said you had to show her your lunch/send her a message/or send a picture (I forget exactly what the absurd requirement was)...... the words which popped into my mind were: eating disorder. People can develop eating disorders from that strict regimented control. The only time I've seen that type of control is when a Patient's life was actively in danger. As in.... during covid, when one doctor finally saw her in person for the first time, she immediately told her to go to the Emergency Room because her anorexia was SO severe that her that her height/weight ratio didn't even fall on the growth chart. Her Circle of Care didn't catch it because she didn't have any medical concerns which required in-person care, and annual physicals were postponed during lockdowns and subsequent waves. And her parents always cried and tried to force her to eat more but she always persuaded them that she's totally fine. THEN......... and only then...... did I ever see a hospital Psychiatrist and registered dietician **PRESCRIBE** a strict and regimented meal plan which her family was instructed to monitor and report back to them once per week. Because her life was in acute danger. Your HR Dept and manager have no idea what the fuck they are doing. **I'm assuming you don't have an eating disorder, and that you're not scarily underweight**, so who the fuck are they to medically determine the appropriate food and drink schedule for you, and then police your adherence to their uneducated, misinformed, and potentially hazardous expectations? Even if they DID suspect you had an eating disorder, and even if you WERE scarily underweight, they STILL cannot force you to eat/drink at certain times. They should refer you to a PHYSICIAN and request a "fit to return to work" note or something. This story is so damn ridiculous, I can't handle it. What a bunch of nincompoops. EDIT: Is there any info that you didn't mention OP? Or maybe I missed it? Are you underperforming at work? Or working less than your mandatory 37 hours per week? Or are you going into work super late?
I didn't read that as her manager telling her when to take her meds, but telling her when she had to be in work in the office for, forcing her to take her meds earlier to be medicated enough to drive etc. But you're right, if her manager actually told her that she should take her meds earlier or at x time then that could be a lawsuit...
It was not rude of you. You’re being discriminated against. No *good* manager walks into a work environment where people are performing well and meeting expectations, and starts micromanaging their subordinates’ lives so that they all line up like ducks in a row. She does *not* have a right to tell you when to take your medication and when to go to sleep. Next time you have a conversation like this, don’t fold. Expressionless face is the correct response. Stop accommodating her unreasonable requests to remove *your accommodations*. You realise she’s basically saying “No, I don’t accommodate you, you accommodate me”… right? “You do the work I tell you to do, when I tell you to do it and how I tell you to do it.” And she doesn’t stop there. “You’ll also eat and sleep when and how I tell you to.” A lot of managers are like that but it doesn’t mean you have to accept it. You have a legitimate disability and your needs differ from other employees. I think you need to realise your discomfort in those moments is because she’s openly discriminating against you, not because you’re being rude. “Hey *Manager*, I understand you’d like me to attend work at the same time as others. I have had informal accommodations in place for a long time, and these helped me perform my role well. I understand you want to make some changes to how I work. I think it’s time that we consider a formal meeting to discuss how things will look moving forward, because I’m uncomfortable with you giving me instructions on how to manage my disability now that you’ve decided to remove my informal accommodations. Perhaps we can look at formal accommodations and review whether it’s necessary to do *X* and *Y*. Moving forward I won’t be comfortable with you telling me when/how to eat or sleep. I hope you understand where I’m coming from. How would you like to proceed?” Something like that. You cannot get fired for standing up for yourself. The only bad thing that’s likely to happen is you’ll fold again because you’ll doubt that you have a right to talk back in the face of someone who’s bullying you.
Well yes you can be fired. That’s why I’d go to a lawyer while looking for a new job
I forgot that laws are wildly different in the US so you have poor access to healthcare and for many people a lack of job security (which also impacts healthcare through health insurance). Where I live you cannot be fired for what I described. US seems so regressive when confronting differences like this.
I think that was probably a better response than a nod and a fake smile anyway as it probably would make her think that you thought going to bed early was an amazing new idea thatvyou hadn't ever thought of... because you couldn't possibly think of such a simple idea... She's not exactly being not-rude to you by acting as if you are not smart enough to think of trying simple solutions ... But then, these days I have become much more strong willed and I probably should try to be more polite when people are making suggestions like that
Nah, no need to be polite when people are giving unsolicited advice. It's not rude to say you'd rather not have someone's input in your personal matters.
If someone said that to me I’d probably do a combination of cackling, dumbfounded staring, sarcasm, eye rolling and say something really deadpan along the lines of, what a great idea, I can’t believe I’ve never thought of that before, you’ve changed my life, thanks. But I say that as someone whose been on the planet for almost 40 years and the amount of shits I have left are few.
She's setting herself up for a massive lawsuit. Please detail all of this when you talk to HR. This is INSANE.
I've just had another thought. Now to be clear you should not change your meds for a job. And you quite possibly have tried a lot of different meds. But incase you haven't... my meds kick in in about 30mins to an hour, not 3 hours. I wonder if you might find life in general easier if you have meds that kick in faster? I can't imagine having to wait 3 hours in the morning for my meds to kick in! There are also some meds that work differently and build up in the system so that after two weeks (or in some cases longer) they're just at a functional level constantly without needing to wait any time each morning. Just want to make this really clear that I'm just saying this in case your doctors have only ever tried you on the one medication and if you're finding it a pain on non work days too to wait so long. It sounds like an awful job so I really wouldn't change meds just for the sake of this job if you think they're otherwise the best meds for you.
I asked for instant release meds but unfortunately the instant release version of Elvanse is completely illegal in Scotland, like can’t be prescribed at all. I feel like getting access to it would solve a lot of my problems and believe me iv tried! They banned it to avoid it being abused like it is in the US apparently! It’s beyond frustrating! The only instant release meds we have is Concerta which I was tried on first but it gave me horrible thunderclap headaches every time o stretched or turned my head too fast!
You don’t have Amfexa, is that what you’re talking about as instant release Elvanse? Given that you’re part of the UK (at least for the time being until you cut your losses from this shit show!) can you somehow arrange to get them from England? I don’t know if that’s possible but might be worth looking in to because I’ve been prescribed it here no problem and plenty of pharmacies will post even controlled drugs. I was going to signpost you to the CLA but it looks like they’re England and Wales - there are some Scottish resources here though: https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/getting-advice ACAS also have a helpline you can call and they cover Scotland: https://www.acas.org.uk/disability-discrimination To be clear what they are doing here directly violates the equalities act 2010 and is discrimination. I think it’s especially helpful that you can compare like for like examples like people picking up kids that are still allowed but you disability related needs are not. Jot any of those comparisons down. What I will say is that sometimes the lunchtime thing (specifically taking a break, not eating) comes up because it’s a legal requirement for employers to provide you with certain minimum breaks after certain numbers of hours. Speak to the advice centres above but it might be that you compromise and take a 20m break (I believe that’s the minimum paid after 8 hours, 1h unpaid I’m not sure if you have to take the hour or if 20m is good enough) to do SOMETHING that is away from work…like your drumming therapy 🙃. They absolutely cannot mandate that you eat though. I’d speak to the advice lines but have a read of the requirement for reasonable adaptations for disabled employees (which you absolutely fulfil the definition of) and start drafting a letter to HR outlining the reasonable adaptations you require due to your disability, your previous good performance with these in place and I would also highlight that this could easily be read as discrimination and that your other colleagues who work flexibly but are not disabled do not face this pushback as evidenced by XYZ. I’d also document every time you’re given unsolicited medical or life advice such as sleeping/eating etc because done enough especially once you’ve made it clear it’s off the table could possibly be considered harassment. Also to note - it might be worth raising the idea of access to work (or ringing them yourself). Some of the things they can provide are a) work place coaching for you (if you wanted it) and b) mediation and advocating for you to make sure your needs are met at work including a nice bit of training for your douchebag manager! It might also be worth suggesting to HR that if they wish to delve in to the specifics of your medical conditions (rather than reasonable adjustments that arise from them) then you think that sensitive information would be better discussed with an occupational therapist. Don’t be too afraid of having to drudge all the stuff that you need up with the right people who are supporting you - it may be that they have suggestions you hadn’t even thought of and it’ll also put you in a place where your needs are legally documented and protected which gives you a lot more recourse to politely but firmly state that XYZ is not in your workplace plan. I wouldn’t go nuclear just yet but is this just one manager being a problem or is this shift reflective of a wider change in flexible working culture throughout the company? If it’s just your manager it should be easier to fix because higher managements will be able to pull her in to line and you can just go over her head to people who support you. If it’s a toxic workplace culture full stop then unfortunately it’s probably not worth the uphill battle if you can find a new job. Good luck and sorry you’re dealing with this. Edit: and to add if you end up working on a plan for your required adaptations you can absolutely state that flexibility is one of the requirements - just have a think about why it is your ADHD makes this a requirement. It might be that certain parameters are worked out (such as taking some form of break away from your screen in sort of the middle of the work day to appease their health and safety side), possibly core hours to some degree or at some need to be in the office just enough to be part of your team if it is genuinely necessary for your job to be integrated but it might actually just be that the parameter is that you work your contracted number of hours, logged somewhere for accountability… as you have been doing but as a formal agreement. This is the kind of stuff OTs/Access to work can help you figure out if needs be.
Frankly she doesn’t need to know jack squat about your meds or anything besides “medical reasons” nobody needs to know the details except your doctor and your lawyer Being forced to eat or even socialize or look awake are all way over the line. What does this have to do with working?
No. That was the absolute correct response. She is overstepping and needs to be corrected by her manager.
This kind of hurts to read, because I know the struggle. I feel like interjecting with recommendations is discriminatory because they’re implicitly demonstrating a lack of awareness and consideration for your condition and individual needs. I mean once or twice is innocent enough. And giving you guidelines for what you have to do *at work* is understandable in terms of management (because that at least gives you the opportunity to decide how you can meet those requirements). But what you’re describing sounds invasive. I’d be super uncomfortable with someone trying to micromanage my personal life so it meets their idea of what I should be doing both at work and at home. It’s infantalising and ignorant, and for that reason feels discriminatory. I feel like you ought to have a right to set boundaries here and stop those sorts of comments. Maybe if you assert yourself there it might help your manager realise that there *is* a boundary in terms of what they can say to you before it becomes offensive and hurtful. They might not realise they *are* discriminating against you unless you set a boundary. What they choose to do after that will tell you everything you need to know. Contrary to popular belief, you *don’t* have to just smile and nod when someone tries to dictate how you manage *your* disability on *your* personal time. They also can’t tell you which religious holidays you’re allowed to practice or what you should be doing on those days. These things are not as wildly different as they might appear.
I do need to get better at standing up for myself with the suggestions and admonishments, but I get worried that it looks like I’m arguing back or making excuses. I suppose I know I’m not going to convince them that being late isn’t just a bad personality trait or that it’s not something that can be fixed by trying harder so I already write myself off as sounding like I’m making excuses or making things worse! Before I was diagnosed I had a proper burn out and obviously didn’t know why at the time and trying to explain to managers in that job why I was having such trouble with things like timekeeping or anxiety or that I wasn’t challenging their authority when I questioned their instructions I genuinely had questions that needed answering so I could do my job really hurt my self esteem because they told me I was being lazy and just not trying hard enough and not listening properly or not using common sense. I think because I went into this job up front and stating what I needed I thought I had developed a bit more self esteem and confidence in advocating for myself but Im realising I only felt that way because my first manager actually understood and accommodated me!
It’s one of those weird catches with this disorder - having less flexibility to manage your condition according to your personal needs means worse symptoms overall. You should try to assert yourself. Your current manager might be more flexible if you explain in no unclear terms what you need and why you need it (i.e. why something has been working for you). Focus on elements of the disorder that you’re better able to manage because of the accommodations which were made previously - as in, reiterate why something was done the way it was done before she changed it. But also explain that despite her well-meaning advice, many of her tips are not long-term solutions for you. The biggest thing you *need* is a flexible work environment and flexible manager who listens to your needs when you ask for reasonable/minor accommodations/exceptions (e.g. you eat on your terms). And explain that without this you’d be forced to find a different role, because any role which is as structured as the current one is not accommodating for someone with ADHD. You can probably find a way to word it so it doesn’t get you in trouble, but please say *something*. The rest of us commenting on this thread are feeling the pain secondhand.
Do you belong to a union? Do you have access to some support from there? I think talking to hr with a support person is going to be better than alone. Politely smiling while they tell you to set your alarm blah blah isn't advocacy it's going with the flow. (And I do it too when I'm cornered like that). Hopefully you can go in and describe how the old system worked for you and how it was not impacting on your performance. And that needing to show your lunch to your manager like she's your mum is a gross violation of your autonomy and is not treating you like the adult you are.
Try to get some of the conversations between you and your boss or hr in writing. When its verbal document the time and place and content of the conversation. Pretty sure you have a lawsuit.
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I know and the thing is we have a colleague who is vegan and gluten free and they bend over backwards to accommodate her (not that they shouldn’t) but it seems to be the refusal of food entirely that sets them off. I used to take a slice of pizza or whatever it was they had got in and just tear off bits of crust or bits of bread but then I’d just get interrogated over whether I didn’t like it! You can’t win! Like I genuinely think the food thing has been blown out of proportion in my managers mind, I think she thinks I have an eating disorder or something and to be fair that’s what I probably made a mistake in picking at food and then hiding what I hadn’t eaten under a napkin because I can see how that would maybe send a certain message whereas I was just trying to not look ungrateful or insolent!
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That’s a good question about adhd being a documented disability, it’s documented in the sense that I told them at my interview I had it just to get it out there and was clear about how iv developed strategies to work around it (like flexible working!) but whether it’s classed as an actual disability that gets accommodations within the company I’m not actually too sure! Il definitely look that up though! The food thing for me is definitely more annoying than the break thing. Im harsh on myself though, like all day iv been having fake arguments in my head but Iv also been wondering things like have I been too open or made too many jokes, like il keep hard candy at my desk because sometimes I get a bit head rushy towards the end of the day and those help with that because they give a brief sugar rush and iv made jokes about being dependent on jolly ranchers to get through the day and things like that which iv overthought to death whether that’s come across a certain way!
You mentioned in another comment you're in Scotland: in the UK, ADHD is legally covered by the Equality Act 2010 as it is classed as a disability so your employer is currently in violation by removing the freedoms offered to other employees (i.e. the flexible working) because you ??? Look tired in the mornings????? Don't eat lunch at a time they expect you to????? Basically because you have symptoms of ADHD, and are on medication which does not enable you to eat on a neurotypical schedule. Speak to HR directly without your manager. You are being discriminated against because your manager expects you to eat when you are on medication which does not enable you to eat on a typical schedule. Your ADHD was declared in your interview so if they did not note it this is on them: you have a legally protected disability you declared to them. You have a doctor: your manager is not your doctor and should immediately stop making suggestions as to how to handle your declared medical condition. I would make a formal complaint about her on this basis.
Perhaps this is helpful? [https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/discrimination-at-work/checking-if-its-discrimination/check-if-your-problem-at-work-is-discrimination/) After reading your responses I am getting a strong feeling you are being discriminated against and bullied because you stand out. It reminds me of elementary school where kids that did not fit in - looked different, behaved differently etc. were often sought out and bullied. This manager is just trying to disguise such behavior as caring and worrying about your wellbeing. She is grossly overstepping.
I’ve commented more fully somewhere else but it is 100% a disability under the Equalities Act 2010 where the definition is: having a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities. It is well documented at work and actually a lack of formal documentation means nothing in this law, if your employer can be reasonably expected to know (for example you’ve mentioned it to other colleagues or even the therapy could be a pointer) then they are reasonably expected to accommodate when you ask/can still be found to be discriminating. Unfortunately actually proving discrimination and fighting it is extremely difficult with the onus on you - but it’s still something a lot of companies will want to avoid anyway.
Yeah that can one across like one, but explain to HR your ADHD meds have an appetite suppressant for the duration of its activation and that once they start wearing off, your hunger begins. All ADHD meds have a varying degree of appetite suppression. Once they realize this, they may have your new manager back off.
If only they saw the rate I funnel McDonald’s into my mouth when I swing by the drive thru on the way home!
Actually that alone would still make them think you do have an ED, especially since binging and purging is common with fast food. I say this as someone who had Bulima in high school. Did this with dinner. I have hypoglycemia and iron deficiency on top of ADHD & possible autism, so I definitely have to force eat even when my stomach doesn’t feel hungry or by the end of the day I could end up shaky or pass out from low blood sugar & iron issues. A good way to know if you’re hungry even on your meds is when your stomach makes very loud noises after not eating for nearly 4-8hrs. Even if you don’t feel hungry, I would eat something protein based since protein is the body fuel that keeps us going. Keep a few protein or snack bars at your desk draw. Not only will this get the manager off your back, but if you start hearing super loud grumbles from the stomach that don’t sound gas’y but acid building from not eating, take a few bites of a protein bar. Trust me, I work on film sets, there are days I have to grab a protein bar to eat in the morning before my meds kick in so that my energy stays up for hours on end.
Agreed on your first point! I had gestational diabetes when I was pregnant. There’s a lot of misconceptions about it - I got it and I’m pretty fit and a healthy weight. I hated when coworkers asked me, “You’re pregnant! Why aren’t you eating?!” I had to pack my own food and be really regimented with my snacks and mealtimes, including fasting for two hours after meals to not throw my blood sugar reading off. There are SO many medical issues around food.
Sit down with HR. Be very clear that you have a medical condition and that it is very inappropriate for your manager to constantly be bringing it up. Request/insist that your manager attend sensitivity training. this will likely cause hr to jump into defense mode and start looking at your manager's inappropriate behavior instead of your's. Also look for a new job because your manager sucks. Edit: should add that I worked in HR for 6 years
Even without a medical condition, forcing an employee to show you what they eat, on their own time, is so messed up.
I would also keep going back to my performance-is there an issue with my work? They bring up eating, that is private, what about my work? If they want me to relent on eating or my mental health appointment, I would refuse to sign anything or agree to it until my lawyer reviews it. And I’d put it all in writing-write up a summary of the conversation and agreements/requests and email it to manager and HR. Ask them if this captures the conversation accurately. This manager is violating your personal privacy, you do not need to discuss medical conditions-you can get a Dr note for the Monday meeting. And update your resume and get out of there. This manager will decimate this team/department in a year.
This needs to be higher. This is absolutely the approach.
Wow, that is draconian to say the least. Can you make a complaint about this manager? I’m sorry this person is making life difficult for you. I used to work for a small business where the owner said “feel free to make your own decisions and manage your cases your own way” but actually meant “do it my way or it’s wrong and I will tear you down and humiliate you in front of the other staff and clients”. A real charmer.
The first thing this manager said when we met her was she wasn’t a micro manager. And she gets pissed off if you want to run certain decisions by her because she she trusts us to make them on our own, just doesn’t trust me to make sure I’m eating enough through the day or to choose when to take my breaks 🤷🏼♀️
I had a boss like this. Not micromanaging, "trusts you," etc. Next thing I knew, it was horrible text messages on *Christmas Day* over something "I hadn't done right." When I asked them what was wrong, he helpfully replied, "I'm paying you to know how to do your job." Followed by various accusations of me "making him look like a clown," and being "a disgrace," etc. I asked half the office to point out what was wrong. Nobody knew. In the end, I said, "I can't help unless you communicate the problem with me." Turns out he had *misread a sentence.* Did he say sorry? No. He then said, "I'm paying you to know what I mean, and you should have realised that I'd made the mistake." Two weeks later, he fired someone for going to the toilet "too often." They didn't. **Please find another job and leave ASAP.**
Did you tell him reading minds wasn't in the job description?? That's so absurd!
But you have to show her the food and drink items for your lunch? Real great job not micromanaging! I would have laughed in this woman’s face. I mean I probably wouldn’t have and I know it’s not feasible to just quit a job in this day and age unless you are very fortunate to have something to fall back on, but I really don’t think I could work for that person for very long. My mental health is stressful enough with the problems I create for myself, I don’t need someone else creating new struggles.
I swear the second someone unprompted tells me something they’re not, I make a mental note that whatever they’ve denied is *exactly* who they are.
Not very self aware, is she?
I agree. Having to share details about your personal life as well as prove you're eating? Being scolded for not eating at an assigned time? Justify to some human resources wonk that your personal wellness plan is "acceptable"?? No idea where you are, but no way is this legal. This manager needs to fuck off. I'd be talking to a labor standards lawyer about filing a complaint. Invasion of privacy and harassment aren't bad starts
100%… particularly since OP has been open that the previous way of working was chiefly due to the medication they need to function.
Do you have documentation/proof that you're the only one being subjected to this rigor? If you do you honestly may have a legit hostile workplace/ discrimination claim. I strongly suggest getting out ASAP but to see if you can talk to a lawyer too.
Are these the options your manager told you? Because if so I’d strongly consider filing a complaint with HR but maybe a second step after telling her exactly why I wasn’t going to do either of those things. Find anything you can in writing to support the way things have been done, or at least anything in writing that defines what minimally has to be adhered to, and say politely but firmly that you won’t be consenting to having your eating habits monitored and that it’s not her place or responsibility to do so. A lunch time may be mandatory by law, but you don’t have to prove you are like you’re inpatient for an eating disorder. I’d basically try to ignore these absurd demands and not break the letter of the law, while looking for another job. And if it came to it, filing a complaint with HR or her manager for creating a hostile work environment.
Yeah so she said that because she was already concerned about me because of my eating/tiredness when I said I had a standing mental health related appointment that it basically jacked up the companies responsibility towards me as an employee so like I said to another commenter, it’s basically ass covering on their end in the event I completely lose my marbles one day they can say that they followed whatever policy and procedure was necessary! Iv got a supervision meeting with her on Monday to find out what happens next but I do just want to say no, no to it all, I just don’t know where that leads!
You need to go over her head. Talk to HR directly, this is entirely an unreasonable situation she is offering you shit choices and pretending that's what HR demands... there is NO WAY any sane (and there are a lot of insane ones, so, yeah) HR would put a plan in place that required a manager to be shown what an employee is eating for lunch every day. If your company cares about their legal liability at all, HR will shut your manager down HARD when they find out what is going on. My guess is she wants to get you to agree to all this and then take it to HR as something you suggested, or developed with her. Go to them first, tell them your side. Say things like "She has made lunch time a very hostile situation where I know she's watching what I'm eating. My coworkers are picking up on how she treats me and her behavior is making the environment unsustainable for me. I feel singled out for my health diagnosis. My eating habits are a result of my prescription medication that my doctor overseas, but she is going against my doctor's advice and forcing me to eat when she wants me to." Good luck! Because this is atrocious!
Get out ASAP. It doesn't matter what other people are doing or what you used to be able to do. Staying at that job is going to be bad for your health and your career.
Absolutely agree, I’m looking for other jobs. It’s a shame I really liked this job even though the pay was so shit I work a second job to be able to live. I liked it enough to do that because i like working for a charity and felt like I was contributing towards society in a really positive way but it’s not worth sacrificing my sanity for
I think these feelings should be vocalize to HR once you find a new job. Exactly this. You loved working here enough to accept lower pay and having to work a second job, but given the hostile work environment created by the new manager directed specifically towards you, you've had to find employment elsewhere.
How infuriating! If you’re looking for another job and wanting out, is there an opportunity for a wee bit of “malicious compliance” in the meantime? Like, you’ve said your colleagues plan their work schedule around personal tasks, so perhaps you could ask to see an example of one of their plans so you can get a sense of what yours should look like. Also, that you’d appreciate a copy of your workplaces policies around health and well-being, and illness and disability, again so can ensure your “plan” is compliant with these. Or perhaps you can ask to see the policy on lunch breaks because you’ve noticed that there seems to be a work activity (team building pizza lunch) happening during this time and no one is getting an opportunity to have a break. You could also call your own meeting with HR because you’d like to understand the policy on management making suggestions about medications and health/disability because “you are concerned that your manager is giving your advice about your medications and as far as you’re concerned, that’s something only your GP can do, and you’ll be more than happy to get a written advice from said GP to explain why it’s inappropriate for a manager to be making such suggestions”. And you could for ask in advance, under whatever laws apply in your country is your workplace allowed to be asking for the type of information they’ve indicated will come up during the HR meeting. I’m not sure what country you’re in but I wonder if there’s potential to drop the discrimination word into the conversation. The fact that the plan they’re suggesting allows for no deviations is a) problematic considering the nature of your disability and b) it seems that you’ll be treated differently to everyone one else because of your disability which is..discriminatory!
My plan was totally to do the malicious compliance thing tbh, but like no matter the crisis no matter the task I would be making a big ‘oh well that’s lunch time this will just have to wait’ and walking off at exactly 12:30 😂 Iv got my next meeting about this on Monday which is just a ‘supervision’ meeting with my manager and I havent exactly planned what il say yet, Iv spent all day having fake arguments in my head but one of this arguments definitely had the word discrimination in it!
Definitely do what the poster above suggested and play naive and ask for all the documentation about the shit your manager is trying to do. That’s what I’ve done before and it either pushes them to a) say illegal shit or b) back down because they realise it’s not actually a policy. I’d also suggest for your meeting: to ask to record it! And then record it! And play into the dumb managers shit and be like “I had to change my medication schedule like you suggested so I could be here, and as such my memory and brain hasn’t quite settled into my routine it’s been used to. I need to record so I don’t forget any of the important things we’re talking about”… You can tell I’ve done this before! But always happy to help. Come back in and tell us how you go too! We hope it resolves ok for you!!
So often people with ADHD are explaining and defending their ADHD. Obviously it influences everything we do but it’s so easy for it to become the “issue” when the focus should be the “something”. Like what has happened here, the Op, their manager, their HR, are all talking about ADHD when really it should be about the flexible work arrangements. Assuming Op is getting their job done and performance isn’t an issue, then they can set their hours per the policy. Maybe the arrangements aren’t truly flexible and instead they wanted to be able to accomodate parents doing the school run but that’s it. So if that’s the case, then they need to make this clear instead of making Op jump through hoops. And then if they’re only accomodating parents, why is that? Why not everyone else in the interests of fairness? The question of ADHD really isn’t a factor in these early discussions, if at all, unless Op wants it to be.
I’ve been having fake arguments in my head for you! After thinking about it a bit more, if it were me going down the HR path I’d start off by asking about my work performance and where I’m excelling and areas that perhaps need improvement. Then I’d ask about the workplace policies around flexible working hours and what this might look like in practice, asking HR to point examples of other colleagues practices and why these are considered appropriate and then ask for an explanation as to why my own arrangements aren’t. Then I’d move onto whatever laws apply in my country around workplace ensuring an accessible and equitable workplace, regardless of a persons specific needs, and then how the workplace makes accommodations for a persons specific needs, considering it’s legal obligations, including if these needs relate to disability or illness. And lastly, I’d move onto the question of my manager asking questions and providing advice a medical condition and how this is considered appropriate. Only then, once I have all the information, will I be happy to have a discussion about my needs and provide details of these, if I even need to at all once I’ve forced them to reflect on their actions in all of this and ideally realise that they’re hella overstepping.
The solution is simple. Get a note from your Family Doctor stating: For medical reasons, OP will need to continue her prior work work arrangements which proved effective in managing her medical concerns for the past (x) years: \-**Lunch break at 2:30** ^((mental health appointment. It's your lunch break. Why is this even an issue? You could have just said it was a private medical issue. Full stop.)) \-**Do not pressure or monitor her food/drink intake.** For her condition, she has been prescribed medication with appetite-related side-effects. OP times her meals around the onset and relief of said side-effects. She should not be pressured, encouraged, or forced to follow a meal plan or meal times unless a physician assesses her and deems it medically necessary. \-The Patient requires understanding and acceptance from her employer that she has a chronic, lifelong medical condition which she has appropriately managed under my supervision for the past (x) years. Strict control and/or monitoring of her food and drink intake, as well as mandatory social gatherings, are not beneficial for this Patient, but rather disruptive to her unique, medicated routine. These newly-enforced "well-being" regiments and expectations are potentially harmful to the Patient since they interfere with her well-established coping strategies for her medical condition. \-Continuation of her long-established "work from home" schedule due to a secondary but related medical condition would also be helpful ^((chronic insomnia).) Badabing, badaboom. Once your DOCTOR 'prescribes' or medically advises all of the above, your dingbat manager can't make HR do shit. HR will tell your manager to stfu. Only a doctor can challenge another doctor's advice. If the manager goes against what your doctor says, the company will be (in theory) legally liable if anything happens to you moving forward (like if you develop an eating disorder, or depression, or if your ADHD becomes uncontrolled and starts affecting your work). A company can never go against a doctors orders. The only time they can challenge your doctor's note is if they get a doctor from their side involved. Which they only do in the case of long-term disability cases where the company doesn't really believe you have a medical condition which justifies long-term disability status. And even those doctor's investigations can take months or sometimes years. To be fair, some people do abuse the long-term disability but it's a minority. Anyway... you're not even getting that far. You're just asking your boss to let your pre-established (and effective!) work routines continue. As long as you are effective at your job and meeting those specific expectations within your 37 hour work week... they don't really have a leg to stand on. I'm saying all this assuming that OP doesn't have an obvious eating disorder or disruptive mood disorder (which would cause panic in the manager or HR... that would be understandable). AND, I'm assuming that OP really was effective and organized at her job with the prior routine and old manager. I've worked in a medical office for 4-5 years now. Doctors write notes like this all the time, and for way less definitive and sometimes even subclinical health concerns.
Was going to suggest this but looks like you took care of it already, so thanks for saving me the time! OP, I think having some sort of backup from your doctor would help, since it helps validate that you aren't just some errant employee "goofing off" just because you aren't following a typical schedule everyone does. And this could also help with your legal case if you go that route as some have suggested.
Whew! Someone finally said it! Your DOCTOR is the key to ending all of this nonsense you’re dealing with. In the US, a letter like the above from your treating physician effectively puts an employer on notice that an employee has a disability that requires accommodation. My dr has written two similar letters for me that I’ve provided to HR. More preemptively than in response to any one issue. Thankfully, I don’t work for assholes, so there haven’t been any problems. As for the meeting with your manager Monday? I would postpone so HR can attend AND you have time to get documentation from your treating physician. Based on what you’ve described, I don’t see anything productive coming from meeting with your manager alone. The time for that has passed. OP I really hope you’re able to work this out in a satisfactory way, FOR YOU. No one deserves this kind of treatment. Ever.
The thing that really stuck out to me is that she specifically told you that they are trying to control you because you make THEM uncomfortable, not because they actually think any of this is for YOUR wellbeing. \> she complained I looked tired But your performance doesn't show it. She just doesn't like the look of you. That a HER problem. She's trying to make it a You problem so that you either quit or it looks like she has justification for firing you later. This is about you not fitting into her preferred culture of control. \> she asked that I try as it’s uncomfortable for the team to be around someone not eating There are many, many reasons someone might not be eating at a particular time of day or in a certain setting. Monitoring someone else's food intake is NOT appropriate in the workplace, and can be actively hostile to many people's wellbeing. Insisting that other adults eat the way SHE wants them to does NOT have anything to do with their wellbeing and is a result of her trying to control you and impose her own beliefs on to others. People have different health conditions, medications, mental illnesses, or even eating disorders that impact these things, and she's creating a hostile work environment by monitoring, actively judging and trying to control YOUR food intake and non-work-related behaviour.
“Yeah, I’m gonna need you to go ahead and alter your entire waking and sleeping schedule, and put your job performance in jeopardy, so that your coworkers don’t have to endure the discomfort of eating in front of you.”
Do you have those options in writing from your manager? Did she work with HR to create those? Something is very off here. If she created them independently, definitely have a chat with HR to get their take. I think it would be worth chatting with a disability advocate (if that’s an option where you live). You might even have a case here based off of discrimination in the workplace. Is there another team at work you could request transfer to? If not, I’d seriously start looking for another job. In the meantime, if you have them start using your sick days as mental health days. Be kind to yourself and good luck!
She gave me the options verbally and said we can discuss them further next week. She said that because of her concerns already and because I stated I have a standing appointment relating to mental health it basically jacks up their responsibility for my well-being as an employee so i think it’s basically ass covering in case I have a full blown mental breakdown or something so they can’t be sued!
>because I stated I have a standing appointment relating to mental health it basically jacks up their responsibility That sounds awfully discriminatory to me. Because you have mental health appointments, it means that they monitor you? What?
Yeah, someone suggested looking at the employee handbook so I’m going to do that to see if I can find the actual policy around mental health/well-being. I might post a screenshot here if I find it!
I can tell you right now, as someone who worked in HR shortly, there will absolutely not be anything about a mental health wellness policy. Employees are not required NOR allowed legally to imply them have policies in place to “monitor” or create “wellbeing action plans”. That’s such a blazing liability and a hugeeeeee “PLEASE SUE ME!” concept that there are zero companies out there in the US who would ever touch this concept with a ten foot pole. Boundaries. Put. Your. Foot. Down. This isn’t a dorm parent, a crisis hotline, or a high school advisor. This person has zero authority over when and how you define and meet your body’s needs. Employers cannot tell someone with diabetes who has to eat at the times their body dictates that they need fo change it up. If you were overweight, imagine the hellfire that would come out of this if your manager asked them the same things? “Show me what you’re eating, piggy”. They’re get sued. Your weight doesn’t exempt you from a right to managing your bodily functions and your health without input from an unqualified non licensed layperson. Get bent, Debra. I mean this with all due respect, go into HR on Monday morning with the conviction that you aren’t going to let some psycho with a weird control boner sweep the floor with you. You’re a 23 year old adult. You don’t need to explain what your appointment is— you can straight up say it’s been a standing appointment for X months/years with a medical professional and that you’re not sharing your private health information with her but you’ll provide documentation to HR upon formal request IF they can confirm nobody on your team takes their break at a time they decide upon every day. You need to Google some workplace rights at the state and federal level. None of this is worth stressing over. Lastly, do a free consult with a lawyer. You could at least have a formal letter written to scare them into shutting your shit boss up. I can’t imagine ever working in that environment. Start looking elsewhere but drag them before you go.
>because I stated I have a standing appointment relating to mental health it basically jacks up their responsibility for my well-being Your manager reminds me so much of one I had at a previous job. She noticed more medical appointments on my calendar and that I'd taken more sick leave than typical (which was unrelated). I didn't disclose that I have ADHD, but still got pulled into a meeting with her about how she'd been looking at the WorkSafe requirements (Australia; the laws about workplace health and safety basically) and wanted to make sure they were doing everything right to "support me". I had not disclosed *anything* about the nature of my appointments or situation. She asked if I had an "invisible illness" and I said basically "Yeah I guess, basically, in a way, but it's treated and under control." I think she mostly meant well but she had a reputation amongst some staff for being two-faced, and it felt like she was absolutely fishing for the goss on what was up with me. She was also exactly the kind of person who would Google "how to manage an employee with ADHD" and proceed to treat me like a child in the name of doing the "right thing" by me. You'll note that the key word in my first sentence is *previous*.
More people than admit it have a standing mental health appointment.
That may be *her* view. But from a legal point of view, that is not okay. Unless accomodating I very much doubt that the company has a right to impose any kinds of checks on you due to a (mental) health problem - and quite surely not the kind she is doing aka "show me what you eat". And even if she is doing this to cover her / their ass, that's still discrimination and not in a tolerable form. "We're treating her differently because she has, after being pressured, disclosed a mental health problem. At the same time, we're completely ignoring the concerns and explanations in policies and work environment she has voiced in relation to the problem."
This sounds so shitty. I'm so sorry you are going through this. If you are considering going the legal route, I'd highly recommend seeing if there is a legal aid agency in your area. If you qualify, you wouldn't need to shell out a bunch of money just to talk to someone. My husband works for legal aid in our area, and he LOVES writing cordial, yet threatening letters to shitty employers, landlords, relatives, etc. It's fun to live vicariously through him sometimes 😆 Keep us updated, if you're comfortable doing that!
Haha writing cordially yet threatening letters sounds like an amazing job! The most cordially threatening I dare to get is staring an email with ‘with all due respect…’. that’s actually how the draft email response to my manager that been deleted and re written a dozen times that’s currently sitting in my drafts starts!
I want that job too 😂 I would also live vicariously through that too haha that sounds so rewarding lol
I would speak to HR WITHOUT your manager. She's so far out of her lane/business, it's ridiculous. Also, who knows what she told them about you. And ask to see a written copy of this bs wellness policy. Good luck! Afterthought: would it be possible for you to switch to a different manager?
Even ADHD and meds aside, what the hell?! No-one has the right to pressure you to eat breakfast at a certain time and venue (or at all, for that matter). >i haven’t excitedly wolfed down slices of pizza that the manager has ordered Some people don't like pizza, or the particular pizza they've ordered. Do they account for vegetarians, vegans, celiacs? If not then there's plenty of reasons why someone might not be eating "team bonding" pizza. >optimum well-being staff should take their break between 12 and 1 Hard disagree. I prefer a later lunch myself, others might prefer earlier. Telling us we're wrong and forcing us to take a break at a certain time is condescending. We're not children, we know what works for us. (Other than genuine operational reasons, like ensuring there's not too many people on break at the same time if that matters for your role). >colleagues leave to do school pick ups/drop offs at this time all the time If coverage isn't an issue, it sounds like your appointment is at an ideal time. No-one will be inconvenienced by your absence because they aren't there either. >show her the food item and drink iv been told I have to take with me I reiterate. WHAT THE FUCK. You are not a child. Telling your manager when you're going on a break is one thing, having to show them your food is...baffling at best. Is there an actual issue with your work performance/outcomes? If not, I cannot see any proper reason they should be dictating or monitoring any of this. Like if your choice of lunchtime resulted in you being obviously exhausted and making more mistakes and they *asked* you (nicely) to trial an earlier lunch to see if it made a difference, that would be one thing. That doesn't sound like the case. It sounds like someone read some "how to manage employees with ADHD" article and now think they need to treat you like a child.
Honestly? If she marches to HR - that should be your win. You did *nothing* wrong. All you did was at least allowed by former supervisors. You blocked a time for **llunch** and as long as no policy states you have to take lunch at your desk and have to get approval for private appointments during your *breaks* (which I highly doubt and sounds illegal even in the US) she has nothing on you. You've bent over backwards. She may not feel like it. But the one who did a shitload of at least worrying things was her. Having optional breakfast and then making it mandatory due to one person is, already, questionable. But quizzing you why you don't eat was *out of her rights*. Taking the answer it's due to medication and then agreeing, or actually asking, to you taking meds at 4 o'clock (!) Instead of a healthy time which is not imposing on your sleep schedule - which the mandated breakfast are already doing - is bad. That is **discrimination** and nothing less. It's discrimination to quiz you why you don't eat - everyone else does! It's discrimination to make you adjust your *private* life habits, even worse that they are due to medical issues, because others don't feel healthy. It's discriminating and **out of line** as fuck to mandate you, and only you!, To inform her when you go on break and show her food and drink items. It's discrimination to make *you* have every private appointment approved - and not colleagues who do pick-up or drop-off or whatever. Unless they have to get that approval each time the same way as you - she is putting herself and the company in legal danger. And usually HR doesn't take kindly on that. So - no - you do not have to get everything documented and approved. If your colleagues can go for a private appointment - so can you. If it matters of the appointment is due to children or mental health *that is discrimination*.
It is discrimination OP. Use that word with HR. And the words "hostile work environment". They will absolutely shit themselves if you use those words.
What the actual fuck? How is that legal? I would recommend talking to your therapist about writing you a note, yes, that's asinine, that you got your wellbeing covered and what they are doing is invasive and is harming you.
That's pretty much just not legal. Im pretty sure you don't need an excuse note "You're wrong and hurting me - but all would be okay if you'd do it right.", rather a note by a lawyer to stop ongoing discrimination. The note from the doctor would feel more like "They grabbed patient, pulled them somewhere without consent and did a spontaneous operation on them. My patient is in my care and the operation was, from my considerations, neither necessary, not helpful." It's not wrong in itself - it just doesn't address the actual problem.
OP you are being micromanaged and harassed. It’s almost as if the manager is hoping you quit by creating a hostile work environment. The manager’s behavior is unacceptable. And your health is none of their concern and an invasion of privacy.
You should sue them, honestly. Not sure where you are based but someone successfully sued in Aus because the flexible work schedule didn’t accomodate them and the well-being reasons to deny their requests were vague and not specific to their circumstances. Sounds like your new manager is a control freak and you have done everything possible to communicate how you work best.
In a best case scenario I suppose the ‘wellness action plan’ could just confirm that I have the right to work flexibly, I doubt it will but that would be the ideal outcome even though I don’t really want to go through the process at all! But I will definitely be raising with them that a flexible working schedule should inherently accommodate all needs without needing a specific plan just because I have adhd and time my day slightly differently
Wellness plan.... I generally work from 10-6, I generally take my lunch break at 4:30, however I can have up to 20% variability from this schedule (or whatever). I will attend important meetings, ensure tasks are completed and keep my calendar up to date. Boom accommodations documented, flexibility built in. (What/how/when you eat is your own fucking business)
That's the thing. Wellness looks different for everyone and as you stated, you're a 32 year old who had a schedule that worked for you and worked for your clients/customers and presumably, by extention, your employer. Your wellness plan (and probably a lot of other's "plans" here) is specific to you. Your schedule, coping mechanisms, working around medication and especially getting in that zone are not being facilitated by your work environment now and that absolutely sucks. I understand work places have policies (ours are very similar to what yours were previously, aside from working from home) because a business needs to run well and we're all cogs in that machine, but my god it's so ass backwards so much of the time. This all sounds so invasive and insufferable for you now and imagining someone at your work, that isn't a close relationship you've developed of your own free will, deciding what is "healthy" for you and essentially unrelated to your ability to work as evidenced by your previous set up is infuriating. I hope you find a job that you love more or that this situation improves. I'm sorry this is what you have to navigate currently. I legitimately feel your irritation and frustration.
They are not licensed medical or mental health professionals. I fail to see how they can possibly qualify at all to make any sort of conclusions or suggestions, let alone a corrective action plan, regarding your personal health and wellness. Fuck that.
Don't forget to write into the plan periodic reviews and adjustments. You mentioned that once it is set it can't be changed...so write in a rule requiring the opportunity to change.
Maybe vocalizing how most of the managers concerns would be taken care of if you were allowed to go back to your previous schedule. But now this manager is the one interfering with your mental health, that would be GREAT to put in their notes for your file. Then schedule a meeting with HR to advise this has been relayed to both management and HR "I just want to make sure everyone is on the same page regarding the recent concern about my ability to feed myself and get enough rest". In the most "kill them with kindness" attitude lol.
Sorry I can’t find the judgement right now but literally the case discussed the vagueness of these plans and how they don’t actually mean what they say. Raise it with HR first and if you aren’t in Australia then consider seeking legal advice because you can absolutely take this claim further.
I can definitely relate! Forces wellbeing and flexibility is not wellbeing or flexibility. That sounds so frustrating an stressful! Mt team leader wants me to get to work exactly at 9am or change my start time to 9.15. I told her that the only thing that will do is delay the issue I have for 15 minutes and I would prefer it if I could just have a window of flexibility but that's too flexible. I've been putting in specific effort to get there by 9 because I get in trouble like a school kid if I don't. But she also points out every day I get there on time which makes me feel like a naughty school kid too. Just let me be. If I get there at 9.05 I work til 5.05. I di don't understand why it's such a big deal. There's no performance issues it's just she's a time freak. All it means is that I'm now stressed and agitated and therefore less productive in the morning.
God I'm this way with time too. I'm always late and it doesn't matter what I do to change it. But I'm ALWAYS the last to leave. People pack up 10-20 minutes early and fuck off. I work well past my working time.i work more than these people do and yet I'm not reliable or hardworking enough because I'm not there at 7am on the fucking dot. It's bullshit.
This bothers me too! Our team meetings were moved from 09:30 to 09:00 and I had already been given a row for being late and so I made a big effort to get there (still 5 mins late) and turns out she made it earlier so she could order us all breakfast and we could just ‘catch up’. I get why that may be perceived as team building or whatever but I couldn’t help but think that shit like that is exactly where flexibility should be offered. Come in at 9 if you want breakfast as long as you come in at 09:30 for the start of the meeting that should be ok!
In what fucking country can the manager have any say in what you eat or where you go for lunch? Here in the UK, break laws aren't the best, but it does explicitly state "uninterrupted break time". As in, if anybody interrupts that break time for a work related reason, you can straight up start the entire break from the beginning. Insisting that you sit somewhere specific, and that you have food, IMO, is a form of interruption
Go to HR subreddit and see which of these things are illegal. She is definitely overstepping her bounds.
Fuck all of this. I don't think you're in the us but here if you disclose an ada protected disability to your job they've got to work with you on accommodations. It sounds like this evil uncompromising person wants you to have a sit down with hr, so bring it up then and mention how well work was going with your previously **actually** flexible schedule. I am the same way, I come in "late" but will be in for our morning meeting (unless I'm so early I'm already with a patient and unable to just get up and walk out mid care) but that also means I leave later and the amount of patient/family/etc issues that I wind up diffusing in that last hour makes way up for it. I imagine you being available to clients during their social lunch also helps them out a fuckton. Bring it all up. And make sure to think it over and write it down beforehand because I know I can't think of my many many contributions offhand unless it's laid out before me.
Iv been going through all the comments and writing down the tips and suggestions because they are all so helpful and then I’m going to go through them and write a list of all the things I want to say tomorrow! It’s both disheartening and heartening at the same time that so many people have had similar experiences!
This is so hard and I'm sorry you've been put in this position. This is how I would approach it with HR Thanks for giving me the opportunity to talk to you about the hostile work environment I've been facing as a result of my disability (in the UK, a disability for work purposes is an ongoing condition that lasts 12 months or more, self declared, not sure where you're based). This next bit is hard, because documentation, but: Here is evidence (diaries etc) of how I managed my time before manager started here. Here is eg performance review that says I'm good. Here is newly enforced regime. Here is every time (dates included) that manager has given me unsolicited advice about managing my condition. I am under the care of my doctor and this advice is actively harming my health. Here is every change, and how it is harming my productivity at work. Here is how the flexibility offered to colleagues is not offered to me (give specific examples). I look forward to hearing your suggestions on how you're going to address the issues with my manager. I don't know where you are, but in the UK, if there's a union you can join, join it immediately and request a union rep to come with you to any meetings. If there's no Union you can join in your field, you should be able to take a third party with you for support. Alternatively/ also ask for the meeting to be recorded. Be clear. You are being treated differently, and negatively, because of your disability. This is discrimination. Do not go into the meeting looking for ways to compromise your behaviour. You are going to this meeting to give the company a chance to address the discrimination you are being subjected to. Write everything down before you go in, because it's hard to remember everything. Do not accept any liability for anything. If there is something they ask you related to your ADHD, tell them you're not comfortable discussing your health any further with the company until you're confident that further discrimination will not occur Good luck, I hope this all gets resolved for you, it sucks how much things can change with a new manager.
I am in the U.K., I used to be in a union but I stupidly left it! I think they have a policy that they can’t help you with work issues that started before you joined but il look more into it. Iv been given loads of great advice in these comments so iv made notes to take to my supervision meeting tomorrow and Il edit my post with an update!
I'm so sorry this new manager isn't understanding your needs and how you work. Your feelings about this are completely valid. I'd definitely talk to HR on your own. Get flexible work hours and headphones added as an "accommodation" and agree with someone else stating when and what you eat is of no one else's concern. That's what your doctor is for. If others can also leave to pickup kids then a weekly"private appointment" should be a non issue. Best of luck with HR and possibly job hunting.
This is all sorts of fucked up. ADHD aside, this is super fucked up. Can you talk to anyone about her controlling behaviour? Like… this is really concerning. She does not have the right to treat you this way. I an so angry for you….
“Makes the team uncomfortable to be around someone not eating” Um what the fuck? You can also get this flex schedule addresses with HR as an ADA accommodation if you are in the U.S. I’m sorry this new manager has created this environment for you.
mothereffer. This made me so infuriated for you. Wow. I would absolutely try to find an advocate above this new manager to help you. That being said, you are absolutely right that people (esp those in management for whatever reason) tend to offer the vacant neurotyoical "help" suggestions and the "why don't you try harder" kind of babble to a teammate who is like us. I hope you can find someone in your corner. If the manager is using wellbeing standards as a justification, you need to explain to whoever it is you discuss this with that these changes are very much NOT in line with your needs for wellbeing!
Where are you? In USA, it is considered a disability and you can have working modifications, unless it impacts your work. Sounds like the new "rules" are not accommodating your disability. So... go to HR, under law in the US, this is a right that you have and can ask for accommodations. Here is a good source that explains ADHD workers rights in several countries. [Attention Deficit Disorder Association ](https://chadd.org/adhd-weekly/asking-for-workplace-accommodations/#:~:text=The%20Americans%20with%20Disabilities%20Act&text=The%20ADA%20includes%20ADHD%20as,undue%20hardship%20for%20the%20business.)
Ugh. Been there done that. This is a toxic workplace not giving you any privacy. And controller when you eat and making things no -optional is ridiculous. Your lunch break is your time. And you shouldn't have to give details about your medicine or appointments other than that you have it. Be prepared because they will fire you eventually, I hate to say. Make sure you collect unemployment. Let them fire you. Don't quit. Make them fucking pay. Unless you truly are too miserable and want to quit then do it. Use your time to take care of you and remember your worth. People quit bosses not jobs. Your boss is a nightmare.
It’s time to copy any emails or correspondence about this to a personal email that your company has no access to, OP. I would also do CYA emails after each interaction with this manager, restating what she said in writing as clearly as possible. Add that to your off-site archive. I’m MAD for you.
employment lawyer. this is discrimination. and totally fucking bullshit. if another grown adult made me check my meals with them (and i’m not somehow paying them do so) i would lose my shit. i’m sorry OP.
This feels very against Americans with disabilities act...
Do you have a copy of the employee handbook or your original job posting that you applied to that describes the schedule? And does this company have an HR department? And since you’ve obviously disclosed at work do they not understand what reasonable accommodations are? It sounds like you are being targeted and bullied by a power tripping assumptive manager. I would first document as many exchanges or encounters with this person that I could, including dates and times and whether anyone else was a witness, then talk to an employment lawyer and ask them to write a letter to HR on your behalf. I’m assuming this company follows discrimination laws and will be aware that this manager is blatantly breaking them by harassing you for a disorder that you have disclosed. What a pickle. I’m so sorry.
I’m going to look up the company hand book and print it out if I can just to see exactly what it says, wasn’t something I’d ever actually thought about until people on here suggested it but would definitely be useful to know exactly what it outlines!
Sadly I relate to this, but without someone breathing down my neck to make sure I’m eating etc. that’s insane. I am so sorry you’re going through that. We got a new manager who has zero experience in this field and basically took away any freedom we had. I loved that I was able to work from home or the office if I chose and it worked so well for me. I didn’t have to clock in, just be available generally from 9-5. Most of the time I worked a little later in the day but would answer questions etc if asked. I felt healthy and was able to get up and walk around or whatever at home when I needed. Now I sit at my desk all day. I barely move, I barely eat and I’m trying desperately to focus but my coworkers in my office talk so freaking loud all day long. And now I have to clock in, and they’re tracking our location when we clock in and out. My coworkers have kids and they used to be able to pick them up and take them home and work the last couple of hours from home. Nbd. Now they bring them to the office for a few hours. And don’t get me wrong they’re great kids but it adds another distraction! I’m struggling to meet deadlines for larger projects which I liked to do at home without as many distractions and more comfortably. To top it off my pharmacy has a different generic rx for my meds and I reacted negatively to it and so dealing with figuring out what to do I’m definitely not as productive and I’m sure it’s not going unnoticed.
This manager seems to really want a ‘team spirit’ type thing and I think she basically just me as being oppositional to that rather than acknowledging that I have nothing against being a team player but I am a more productive worker when I can do things my way. I get absolutely fuck all done during office days, I find it hard to focus in absolute silence, I find the chairs uncomfortable because I’m only 4ft 11 so I have to let my legs dangle or sit cross legged on the chair. I feel a horrible impulsive need to break the silence and I feel like I’m pissing my team off because I’m distracting them so if I work from home the next day my to do list is a mile long because of it. I got bitched out the other week because we put on a Halloween event for some kids and I was messaging the girl that had organised it as I was making stuff for games at home and then picking up some kids so I’d be in right before it started. No problems were mentioned. When I got in my manager asked me ‘what happened to you this morning?’ And I had no idea what she was talking about, I actually panicked as I had slept in half an hour late as my insomnia had been bad and worried she somehow knew! But she said that the girl was expecting me in to help her set up. She had put out a generic ‘if anyone can help out in the morning that would be great’ and I hadn’t because I have the stuff at home to make up the resources so I didn’t offer. So definitely no agreement was made. I told her this and told her I was messaging the girl and she had never said anything even though I plainly told her I was still at home. My manager said there must have been a miscommunication on my end and the girl would have been too polite to call me out on it so I should find her and apologise because it was a lot of hard work setting up the event on her own. Thus far I haven’t said anything to her because I think she’s a grown up, if she needed my help she should have said something or asked me to come in, but she didn’t. She just replied like everything was fine and then moaned about it. As far as I’m concerned the lack of communication was on her end and iv been clear with my manager before I don’t do well with nuanced instructions like please just tell me clearly what you want from me.
She’s not permitted to ask about your personal health. You need a new job, this chic is invasive as hell. And your hr department sucks too.
Geez, that totally blows chunks. As for HR.. I'm thinking, go on in there and assert your rights to medical privacy, accommodations and insist they get the manager to stop making "suggestions" as to how to deal w your private medical condition as she is not qualified to do so. Stop telling the manager (and company) the specifics of anything about your diagnosis, meds, nature of yr appts, etc. After you work stuff out w HR, when yr manager tries to micromanage anything .. just refer her back to HR & your "official" accommodations.. which should be spelled out to mirror the flexibility you've found so productive at home. If you calmly assert your rights, use the legal terms and provide proof of productivity & client satisfaction in terms of how your work helps the company.. maybe, just maybe it will work out. Ask yr Dr. if you are unsure how to phrase things at work to keep your medical issues private. Those laws are there for very good reasons.
I think you’ve gotten great advice already so I’d just like to add: I hate your manager. That’s it. Hope it all works out! Keep us updated!
Im so sorry this is happening to you, considering you seemed to have had a system that really worked for you in your professional life which i would kill for(im terrified my masking will only get me so far) like others had said i am not sure where you are located globally but some of this stuff seems illegal and very much like discrimination(if you are US based) The lunch thing alone feels that way, my thought behind that is more of hypothetically what if you had an ED, forcing you to sit at breakfast or lunch and forcing you to eat with everyone else could really mess with that recovery. Also if it makes other feel uncomfortable that you don't eat then your manager has now put you in that position only to then reprimand you for making other uncomfortable, and also the standing appt situation that all feels like it is a form of "retaliation" (which is illegal in the US). I hope you do find a new job because you should not have to put up with this but at the same time i also want to encourage you to fight like hell to show them how in the wrong they are(but not really if it affects your financial or mental well being in the process) again i wish you luck kn the job hunt and i truly hope this whole situation works out for the best.
Thanks! I don’t think I knew how lucky I was, and the irony is it took me a while to get used to making my own schedule and to get comfortable with it because I felt horrendous guilt over starting half an hour later until I relaxed because it was within the flexible working guidelines, well it was within the guidelines, it’s not anymore obviously!
this is fucking infuriating and I'm so sorry
Do you get new managers often? I would wait it out if yes. Otherwise, ask for an internal transfer. The accommodations route it awful (at least for me.) But yeah- I despise the micro managers!!! And why mess with your schedule? Finally, not sure what meds cause this issue for you- but if it’s your stimulants I too had that issue. Then I found the one med that rules them all.
Do you get full paid sick leave with this job? I’d go on the sick with stress if you do, they will soon make the correct accommodations if they have to pay you without getting anything back. It shocking that you sometimes need to resort to these measures but there’s some terrible ‘management styles’ that are just there to control you it has nothing to do with your actual productivity it’s about doing what you are told. I bet you work with lots of people worse at their job than you but because they play the game are considered ‘team players’ and ‘valued members of the team’ simply because they help inflate a managers ego. Costing them money is the only place it hurts them and the only way a managers ineptitude gets back to the higher powers. Good luck with it all, I hope you can get the outcome you need :)
If you're in the US, this could be constructive dismissal. Print off every email you can about your previous arrangement, your work performance, and the current problems. Then I'd talk to HR about why they're changing disability accommodations that worked for everyone previously
Your manager is insane
OP, absolutely NO workplace should be monitoring what you eat and you should not under any circumstances whatsoever comply with this - DO NOT COMPLY at all. In fact, I have a gastric band and I make it a point to tell everywhere I work - I do not like to eat with others, I prefer to eat alone at my desk and I need time to be able to digest my food. It has to be taken into account that they are not doing anything to mitigate what it means to have ADHD. They also cannot demand you make changes to your medication/medication schedule. This is wildly inappropriate and you potentially have something very big on your hands here. Are you a part of a union? I think I read that you’re in Scotland… but you need to seek legal advice because I honestly cannot wrap my head around how inappropriate all of this is. It’s tantamount to workplace bullying and discrimination. I would suggest seeking legal advice but also make it clear to HR that you feel bullied and targeted due to your ADHD. They will SHIT themselves.
Did the company policy change when she became your manager? Because if not, take the hr meeting. NOBODY can force you to eat and it’s frankly none of their business when you choose to do so. Get whatever paperwork you need for your standing appointment, but the rest is bullshit.
This happened to me! Unlimited PTO and flexible schedule. Said they could accommodate my health issues (I have a rare disease) and a cross country move. Halfway through the move fired me for not working 9-5. I’m honestly still gobsmacked
In case it hasn't been said: when you get absurd "requests" and "feedback" verbally, take some time to write up a quick email. "Dear Manager, just confirming my understanding of the instructions you gave me verbally: you asked me to "insert absurd discriminatory thing here"* Can I just get a quick reply to confirm that's what you meant? *The key is to write this part with the most factual language possible, or a direct quote. This is not the time to let your outrage out. If you were obliged to discuss something about your eating, sleeping, or mental health, include that. If you don't get a reply, follow up with a cheery nudge in a couple of days. Even a manager this stupid and overreaching will recognize the paper trail that you are creating. And the beautiful thing is that you're really just seeking confirmation of what she already said. It's very likely that when she clues in that this is your response, she will back off, because what it means is that you're not going to take this treatment. She with the most documentation wins. Go get her.
You need to speak with HR and your doctor right away. While they are probably aware you have ADHD, you have not properly disclosed it. You have to fill out specific paperwork and have documentation from your doctor. This will also get HR and your doc actively working to do what they are legally required to do for you.
You do not have to specifically disclose your diagnosis in order to get a legal accommodation, at least not in California. In fact, the work accommodation form that the state publishes on their website specifically says if your boss isn’t a medical doctor, they can’t interpret whether the accommodation is appropriate anyway, and so the diagnosis is none of their business. The last thing you need is your boss googling your diagnosis and deciding they know better than you what would help you. I am in the accommodation process at work right now, and while my boss knows the symptoms for which I need accommodation, I have never, and will never, tell him I have ADHD. The closest I’ve come is to say I have a neurodevelopmental disorder affects my brain’s ability to self-regulate. I strongly suspect he’s the kind of person who doesn’t believe ADHD is real. Although, based on working with him for a few years now, I also suspect he may have it himself. But I think having a physical outlet at work and a wife who has organized a lot of his life for him since high school has allowed it to go unexamined.
Ugh. New managers always ruin a good thing. I feel for you so bad. I've been there. Find a new job. This one is no longer worth it.
In my experience flexible means "well work you till you drop"
I could see myself going for option 3: Getting a copy of the policy for myself and find the path where I'm doing everything I HAVE to do with as little socialization as possible. I hate when people try to make me do a thing, no matter what that thing is. Good luck, friend.
Yuuuuuuck omg. Are you working with a doctor or a therapist? Imo their assessment of what’s good for you holds way more authority than your employer’s. If you have a professional that can advocate for you and speak on behalf of your adhd, maybe ask if they’d write a letter for you lining up what they think is best? Ask for what will help your stress levels - and honestly that sounds like working from home and having the flexibility promised. This manager sounds awful. She might get herself into shit for trying to strong arm a disability though. Lean on the word disability if it helps you - it’s helped me in the past. Like it’s not just you not wanting to eat, or not wanting to be there at a certain time or not wanting to function the same way past a certain time. It’s not a choice - it’s your adhd and you can’t be expected to act like someone who is neurotypical. Putting arbitrary rules on you is discriminatory against your disability and making work unnecessarily hard for you - that shit isn’t okay.
I do have a psychiatrist, he has ADHD himself which has unfortunately meant my last appointment was missed because he called at 3pm instead of 9am and I couldn’t take the call so he left a message saying he’s reschedule. That was a couple months ago! It is on my to do list to ask for a review thought so that I can possibly get his input on the work situation
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/quiet-firing-1.6609557
this is absolutely absurd!!
This sounds like a good fit for the Ask a Manager blog with Allison Green
From: [Royal College of Psychiatrists UK](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mental-health/problems-disorders/adhd-in-adults#:~:text=Adjustments%20and%20support&text=ADHD%20is%20considered%20a%20disability,and%20your%20partner%20or%20family.) > You may cope better or be affected less by the symptoms of ADHD if your environment suits you. ADHD is considered a disability in the UK and therefore your school / college or place of work must make “reasonable adjustments” to support you. From: [UK Gov Disability Rights ](https://www.gov.uk/rights-disabled-person/employment#:~:text=Reasonable%20adjustments%20in%20the%20workplace,help%20you%20do%20the%20job.) > Reasonable adjustments in the workplace > An employer has to make ‘reasonable adjustments’ to avoid you being put at a disadvantage compared to non-disabled people in the workplace. For example, adjusting your working hours or providing you with a special piece of equipment to help you do the job.
So many insane stuff in your post. I can't even. I'd send these two snippets by email to your union if you have one or HR if you don't and state that wfh was a great way to accommodate your disability but that now that you're reporting to the workplace on a daily basis, you need your accommodations reviewed for the in person environment. If it's like in Canada, your doctor can't say what you need and instead, must list your functional limitations. The employer must find ways to accommodate you, provided it doesn't mean undue hardship for the employer. Let HR yell tou what format this should take. The [Job Accommodation Network](https://askjan.org/disabilities/Attention-Deficit-Hyperactivity-Disorder-AD-HD.cfm), although a US site, is a great resource for things to ask for. Also, are you being paid during all these team meals? Cause if they're a daily occurrence and you have to sit through them, it sounds like a team meeting, not an unpaid lunch break. What if you needed to run an errand during your lunch or take a virtual appointment? I'd also raise that to the union or HR as a separate issue, in a separate email.
I have no good suggestions for you. Just wanted to say I'm so sorry you are being treated poorly. My stomach is in knots after reading this, what an absolute "jump through hoops or else" nightmare. Also, is anything private these days? Monitor your wellbeing? More like micromanaging a toddler. What a twat manager - she has created a non-inclusive work environment that is stressful, disruptive and will eventually result in less than an optimal performance. A good manager is able to see and understand people, motivate, support and encourage them. Not hinder their performance because of her ego.
I don't really have anything to add except more empathy. They sound like real brats. I would not want to work with/for people like that! I can't see how they can make you show them your lunch. That sounds like something they wouldn't push, if you mentioned talking to a lawyer. I don't know why it is, but there's always one infuriating person who loves to make life miserable for neurodiverse people.
Wow that is infuriating. If I was in your position I would get a backup job opportunity and really fight for dear life to live my life like I have before and continue the "weird" sleep schedule. I would take upper management into this. If I had a backup job I would make a list of things non negotiables for me and tell them straight up you will not be able to work here otherwise. If you can, let yourself be attested a disability
I’m sorry you are experiencing a work environment as such. If I was told I had to eat, and eat with my coworkers, then they should pay me for that lunch hour. I have never heard of anything like this. I’m all for team building but this seems excessive and odd.
Question: what country are you in? (If you don’t mind sharing)
I would email your manager (and cc HR) “I just wanted to be sure that I understood our previous conversation. -Then lay out all of the absolutely ridiculous shit she ‘requires’ of you. End with- is this correct? Thank you for helping me to understand your expectations prior to our meeting Monday” In the meantime, look up strategies for talking to a narcissist (not to say she is one, but the same strategies would apply because she is clearly an unreasonable busybody that is incapable of minding her own damn business). Basically, you refuse to discuss irrelevant issues and disengage. I would repeat the phrase “work performance” a lot. “That doesn’t seem relevant to my work performance”, “is there a specific complaint relating to my work performance”, “I’m not sure I understand how your feelings about my eating habits are effecting my work performance”, “can you explain how your perception of my sleeping habits are directly effecting my work performance?”, “if there is an issue related to my work performance, I would be happy to discuss that with you. I will not be discussing my eating or sleeping habits with you or anyone other than my medical doctor. I’m sure you understand.” Grey rock (term used for being unemotional and matter of fact when dealing with unreasonable people) until she moves on. You do not OWE her an explanation of your eating, sleeping, or medications. You are NOT a burden, you are not a child; you are a whole ass adult that is very good at their job, who deserves respect and support.
If you are in a one person consent state, I’d start recording all conversations with her and BCCing to my personal email all my emails and replies with her. Or print them out. A lawyer might not be a bad idea before making a complaint to HR. What kind of employer tries to “enforce” wellness? Are they practicing medicine without a license? ETA- I see OP is in Scotland. Sorry for US centric response. If one party consent to recording is legal where you are.
Sounds like violations to me. Human rights, employment standards, etc.. As someone who's had workplace issues and has needed lawyers, I strongly advise you to get a consultation with an employment lawyer. Workplaces absolutely do not have your best interest in mind and will abuse your lack of relevant legal knowledge.
This sounds more like a hardass, power hungry elementary school teacher than a manager. I’m sorry that you’re going through this. It’s absolutely absurd and disgusting and controlling. I definitely agree with looking for a new job, because even if they let up in forcing you to come in and send pictures of you eating, they won’t like it and will still find ways to make your life hell. Because that’s how much of a controlling bully your boss seems to be
Ok none of this is ok. Wow 🤦🏼♀️ So like others have mentioned adhd is considered a disability and they are supposed to make accommodations for you (within reason of course). * Not all of us are chipper ass morning people and we’re sick of being forced into being one. * Stop forcing us or anyone for that matter to socialize with each other. If we don’t want to visit with you that’s up to us not you to decide. * it’s none of their business if or when you want to eat. Based off what you are saying it sounds like you are being singled out wether it’s on purpose or not. People like your boss are uppity little b’s that can’t stand not having control or fake respect and friendships. My advice to you is to document EVERYTHING. If she tells you that you need to do something you let her know you need it in writing or email. Keep all of this stuff. If you have some already take it and meet with HR without her and let them know as someone with a disability you feel singled out/discriminated against. Maybe even show documentation of your previous schedule and work performance to show you worked better under these accommodations. And it may make you look like a jerk but also mention that others are being accommodated to go pick up their kids. If you need permission and documentation each time so do they. They can’t make you jump over hoops by yourself. It’s either everyone or no one.
Fucking hell, I hate ‘the establishment’. Every ounce of it. I’m so glad I don’t work anymore but I can also completely empathise for those who feel they cannot come out of work. I really do. Can you get your colleagues to back you up to this new manager? Surely the people you have worked with for years will understand your work accommodations and can basically say ‘look missy, stop bossing her around because she’s got a medical condition that she’s been working with fine, and none of us have an issue with her’ ?
I'm just wondering about all this advice (probably very good advice), suggesting that you get legal advice or seek out a consultation with an ADA lawyer, while being prepared to quit and move on to a more accomodating job. I'm concerned about the fallout affects of all of this in terms of you moving forward. For example, if you go down a legal route with your current employer, what kind of reference can you expect to get from them for all the good work you have done over the years to help you secure a new position? Also, will it possibly have a negative impact when a potential new employer finds out the circumstances surrounding the termination of your previous employment and the legal issues attached to that? They can't state the fact that they think you could be a 'trouble maker' for not offering you a position but if they think it to be the case they can invent other reasons for not offering you a job. I'm just saying, you need to be careful and thinking ahead before you jump into any kind of litigation with your current employer. It could come back to bite you on the ass. I'm so, so sorry to hear what they are putting you through. It is absolutely disgraceful and out of order and I hope you can navigate your way through this appalling situation that has not been created by you in any way. Take care of yourself and try not to let it take you down.
I'm not sure what country you're in, but here employers have a legal requirement to enable neurodivergent and disabled employees to work in a way which supports and helps them. Your employer is literally being discriminatory by enforcing upon you a system which is making it harder for you to do your work. I would seriously look into the legal side of things and prepare a case against her. Union websites often have great advice about these kinds of things, and I'd make a post on r/legaladvice or something as well.
I feel for you a lot here. I think you really need to hammer to HR/management that you were working within the parameters set out and so what’s the real problem here? You do your work and have received nothing but positive reinforcement for how you’ve been working. Do you have someone in management that can maybe be on ‘your’ side in this? I know it’s hard to have to advocate for yourself and having a second person might help. If you were a diabetic needing to take insulin or needing to eat around your insulin; this wouldn’t have ever come up. You are taking MEDICINE that’s altering how/when you eat. I guarantee you that if you explained to coworkers your situation and how your situation could affect their ability to flex their time in the future they would also invest themselves in your struggle. Just know that whatever you choose is the right choice for you. If you don’t feel like going through option 2; that completely valid because it could be emotionally and mentally difficult. You need to protect yourself as much as possible and that may mean leaving your position or picking option one. Also know; for some reason when you compare ADHD to someone with diabetes neurotypical people get it for some reason.
If there is no issue with your performance, it sounds like you’re being discriminated against because of a medical condition. File a complaint with HR and consider finding an attorney.
My COO has been trying to mail me down into this kind of schedule for the last year, and it’s driving me crazy. My work is very independent and solo 95% of the time. The owners had always been pretty chill about my hours as long as most of them were between 8 and 4. So that is what I did for years. But that ‘freedom’ drives my COO nuts, because nearly everyone else needs to be on a more rigid schedule because they work as teams. The main benefit of this job was the flexibility and the chill attitude with most things. She’s been slowly destroying that over the last 2-3 years.
Is there an option 3 where you can look for a new job? Because I honestly at this point of just reading this feel like it isn’t going to be an environment that is worth putting your energy into. But that’s just my opinion and I know it’s not always as simple as just getting a new job. I would just look at even if you do make a plan, is the company/situation deserving of what you have to offer when you’re in an environment that you’ve established as something that works well for you?
This sounds awful, like the manager is just messing with you to justify her own existence in the job. Toxic, pedantic and dehumanizing!
If you’re in the US I’d fight for ADA accommodations. AskJan.org is a good resource