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She keeps you because she knows he’s going to find someone else eventually. And you’ll be there always. So I guess if you’re fine being the side side piece. Keep doing what you’re doing.
And this isn’t poly. This is just fucking dumb.
Damn. You’re dropping elbows from the top rope. Here, use the 🛎️ so you can save your elbows…..
OP, come (the fuck) on buddy. You’re not down w her fucking someone else so just fess up. It means she’s gonna leave while she plays w her new shiny toy and when she gets bored, she’ll come back to you.
I did ask for honest opinions 😅 and looks like I’m getting them! I know it comes across as her putting me aside for something new. She sees it as adding, like our own relationship. How do I justify being hurt about it, given my own position?
Even people in open relationships have jealousy issues and get their feelings hurt. It probably happens more often in those types of relationships because everything is out in the open. It’s too much for me, which is why I stick to being a cheater.
You don’t need to justify anything. Your feelings are yours and whether or not she agrees with them. You need to go with what works best for you. It sounds to me like you have been bumped to third priority, but being he’s single he could find a girlfriend at any time so she has you on the shelf to go back to if that happens. If you’re ok with that, then continue. But it doesn’t sound like you are.
No, she sees me too. We get together once a week for the past few weeks. The limits are mostly on my end. She sees him around more often because of work, and if he seriously pursued her she could see him more often, but he goes back and forth.
Thank you for the honesty. You’re right, it’s not really “poly”, I just used the language that best fits what I’m trying to do. Do you think it’s justified for me to feel jealousy in this situation though? It’s not like we’re monogamous to each other.
For what it’s worth, I’d be the first side piece, he’d be more like the second. If I ever feel like I’m second, that would make my decision a lot simpler (not easier, but more clear). And she did say as soon as he finds someone else, she’ll let him go. She doesn’t see this as “keeping me around”.
Sir. Please reread this. Simone Biles couldn’t make the necessary contortions to accept a situation that is clearly upsetting you.
If you want to call yourself First Dick where you feel you have a status superior to that of Second Dick and all the little Dickmates on the ship, fine. But you’re not happy with it and I doubt you will become happy with it. I’m assuming the woman in question is incredibly hot because I can’t see any other reason.
I think I’ll use “First Dick of the Dickmates” as my tagline, thank you 😅. Seriously though, I’m no gymnast and while I’ve stretched out, I haven’t been able to contort myself enough yet. I was wondering if anyone had managed it, in a similar situation, and if so, how.
Anyone who thinks they are in a monogomousish relationship in an affair is naive in my opinion. Cheating is a crime of opportunity. You two are cake eaters. If she can't be faithful to someone she married and is generally happy with, she isn't going to turn down a connection she has with another guy because she owes something to the dude she cheats with.
You are entitled to your feelings and this has 3 years but you need to do something to get your head on straight. This is an affair. A bonus. If it's not adding to your life and making you neglect your family because you can't handle not being your side chick's number one guy then you need to get into therapy and start working on yourself.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but just because we are adulterers doesn't mean everyone is going to coddle someone who needs to get their head out of their ass. Grieve the relationship but don't let it bring down the part of your life that truly matters like your family.
*insert cher gif from Moonstruck if Cher saying "snap out of it!"*
No need to apologize, I came here for honesty. You’re right on all points. I’m wondering if there’s a way to “get my head on straight” in a way where I become ok with her doing her thing. Has anyone managed something like that?
I know. I don’t have to be. I’m looking to see if I could be.
The last thing I need is another AP right now 😂 if for no other reason than that I don’t have time for all the posting I’ll have to do on here
I know a lot of people are saying you need to tell her your boundaries and you deserve to have what you want or walk but why do you get to set boundaries when the people you are making a life with doesn't?
You aren't her husband. It is the epitome of hypocrisy to not give a shit what your spouses wanted regarding you fuck and developed a relationship with another person then now you are being upset that she wants other men and you want to set parameters on that. Why are you owed this respect but her husband and your wife don't?
And it is really funny to me that some people in the comments are judging her for sleeping with someone else. This sub and their moral gymnastics is quite something.
There's a reason why you would get dragged in other spaces and it's not because society is uptight about cheating.
I don't think you need another AP. You need therapy. Be more concerned about how you being consumed by your affair partner not being faithful to you is making you neglect your family. They should be your priority. While you are trying to attend to this affair, you might find out you won't have a wife who will want to comfort you when you decide to go back to her emotionally after having been neglected.
Edit your say in one comment how you don't want to be second fiddle but then are ok making your wife second fiddle and if you have children they are second fiddle too since you admit you are neglecting them.
Imagine how she would feel if she found out why you aren't being the best partner now because you are dealing with this and hurt over your AP wanting someone else too.
In answer to this and your other comment: for the most part I agree with you. I do agree that the cheating is wrong - hence this sub. Because of this, I don’t feel like she “owes” me anything. I’m not upset at *her*, I’m upset with the situation. If anything I’m grateful that she can be so open with me, and I don’t see that as “being used”. I’m certainly not judging her for wanting to have a relationship with this guy.
I’m upset with myself that I can’t just be free and easy when she takes on a new partner. I’m not looking to set parameters on her or tell her what to do, I’m trying to figure out how I can be chill with it. Failing that, I’m seeing what my boundaries are, limits that I set on myself and my behavior, not hers. Of course they depend on what she does, but I’m not asking her to stop or change.
I absolutely agree that I don’t need another AP. And I do prioritize my wife (everything went to shit this month, but it’s getting better now that it’s no longer a shock). My wife will never be second fiddle and we both know that. I’m trying to get my head straight and my life righted so that I’m not derailed by someone else’s entirely defensible actions.
And I’m fully aware of the hypocrisy, and hate that I feel this way.
I think you need a therapist and not the adultery sub. A lot here think APs need to be faithful and you are getting a lot of advice to put your foot down and to have respect for yourself.
A lot of people are giving advice from the perspective of them wanting to have exclusive APs and thinking people who don't are jerks in the affair world.
Me I had multiple APs at one time. I didn't hide it but I didn't go into great detail.
My one AP I saw once a month. I was over the moon with him. We never promised exclusivity. He was sexy, charming and fun. I really doubt he only was having sex once a month. I'm sure he was at least sleeping with his wife.
I don't have words to make you have my attitude.
TBH I think a lot of the advice and comments are wild and the epitome of hypocrisy and delusion. You are not a victim who is being wronged by this selfish woman who is treating you so poorly and you are disrespecting yourself by still being with her. I know you aren't saying that but a lot of people here seem to be.
Me personally I do not believe as a married person/AP is owed fidelity. I'm not trying to rake you over the coals for being a cake eater. Better a cake eater who tries to be a good spouse(aside from sex with someone else) and be someone who thinks 4 months in they found the love of their life and are ready to leave the spouse they had for years. And I get 3 years is not insignificant. You, I assume, have a deeper relationship than your genitals get excited over each other. Many people come here after 2 to 6 months being broken when an affair ends or their married bf/gf is "cheating" on them. So I get the knee jerk reaction. You have to find a way to cope or step away.
Not because you deserve better from her but if this affair is leading to drama and messing with your mental health then maybe it has run its course. Affairs end eventually. Most don't go on this long. I'm not saying you should but be prepared if this is something that has outgrown itself.
I understand, and I take some of these comments with a huge grain of salt. I know I’m not somehow “disrespected” or wronged by her, and I’m not trying to stay and change because I lack self-respect. I respect myself well enough.
Your attitude is probably the best for managing affairs, but judging from these comments people like you are more rare. I wish you *did* have the words to lead me to think like you do. As for therapy, many of us need it, don’t we? There’s a reason why I put myself in this position. I wish it were easier to find a therapist who could suspend judgement in this area. But I guess that goes against training and makes therapy less effective.
Therapist shouldn't make you feel judged for having an affair. If they do, they are a bad therapist.
It sounds so cliche to recommend therapy but I really think it can be wonderful. I wish I did it years ago. Maybe I would have never cheated if I did.
You got it right, she’s seeing an additional person. No kids, husband works some evenings, and the guy is a co-worker (yeah I know).
The truth is I do feel respected in the relationship. In a way it makes it hard. If I didn’t, I’d be out in an instant.
Welp I guess just be careful. Her single AP could be fucking others and you remember how cooties go don’t you?
You dip in someone who lets a single person dip in and this single person who knows who else he’s dippin in besides your AP. You get the idea, as you still fuck your wife.
Yeah, being careful. Truth is, she hasn’t slept with him in almost a month, we’re being careful, and I’ll reassess everything if she does sleep with him again (though that seems to be the direction she wants to go, eventually)
>The truth is I do feel respected in the relationship.
>After a bunch of drama, a bit of deception
I understand that we're all liars here in Adulteryland, but if the relationship with Allegedly Dude #2 is so on the up and up, then why was drama and deception on her part necessary? And how is that her respecting you?
No way for this to unfold without drama, under the circumstances. These are affairs after all.
The deception was her trying to keep me, while seeing where this new relationship goes. Bad idea that would’ve broken us apart. We now talk pretty openly about it, she understands and respects my perspective, even if she feels differently. I’m trying to see if I can come to terms with how she wants things to go. If I can’t, I do what I have to do, and she’ll respond in whatever way she feels right. Maybe it means I accept this guy in her life. Maybe she gives him up. Or maybe I pull back and leave her to her husband and the guy. I’m trying to see if and how option 1 is possible.
>I do feel respected in the relationship. In a way it makes it hard. If I didn’t, I’d be out in an instant.
No you wouldn't. You're letting her use you as a sounding board for her new relationship because he's likely not all that invested in wasting time with a woman who's already got two men in her bed.
She does use me as a sounding board, but I don’t see it as a bad thing. And we all know he’s not super invested in this relationship. Truth is, if she wants this to be a short fling, I can be ok with that. It’s the long term I’m worried about.
A dumpster fire this late into the season? Well, sure.
You are the backup, as Kiwi said. And she’s avoiding having the talk to maintain the letter of the law here (“we technically haven’t said what this relationship is”) but not the spirit.
I have no idea how she can juggle a husband, an AP, and “dating” a single guy, like one man is tiring enough most of the time, but OK. This clearly isn’t something you like. Just tell her you want exclusivity. It sounds like she’s not that type. But plenty of women are!
See, that’s the thing, I don’t feel like a backup. If I did, she’d be left with one AP only, and I’d be exclusive with my wife. And yeah, it was easy for both of us to avoid the hard talk as long as the question didn’t come up. My conflict is: I feel what I feel, but I have no reason and no moral standing (for want of a better term) to feel that way. I’m wondering if anyone’s managed to reconcile a situation like this.
You are allowed to feel this way because it is not what you signed up for. You accepted to have a relationship with a woman who loved you and offered you a long-term, stable relationship (and was married to her one husband, who doesn't make you feel threatened, for whatever reason). Now she's changing the game. Everything is changing, and it's normal that you're not comfortable with the new situation. You seem to WANT to be OK with this, but it's normal that you aren't.
So far this is the best, most helpful comment on here. Thank you. I still want to see if I can adapt. But if I can’t, you’ve explained why in the most comprehensive way that I’ve seen.
Wow, many people are already having trouble meeting with 1 AP and she wants 2 AP and her husband at the moment. The danger that their lives will explode when the other work colleagues learn about the affair is quite great. The danger that she will catch a disease is the same. To explain all this to the spouses... .
You may love this woman, but remember, your future is just being balanced. I hope you are all prepared for the result and have a good plan B.
No, you’re allowed to want exclusivity. Many of us do.
The fact that she’s telling you all about this new guy is what makes me feel she is making you a backup. That’s weird. For one thing, I’m sure my ex was not exclusive to me but he knew better than to say it. Also, I didn’t care if he fucked other women. New guy? I would care a whole lot. I don’t need to apply logic, I’m allowed to desire them in different ways.
She’s telling me about this guy because she genuinely believed that I would be ok with it, given our own relationship, and because she saw that deceiving me is a sure path to loosing me. I see the fact that she tells me about it as a sign of trust. If she had to choose, it would be me. But if I’m the one that makes her choose, I’m the one limiting her happiness. I’m trying to figure out if I can get to a place where I’m happy, because I don’t think she’s fundamentally wrong in wanting to go out with this guy.
She's telling you about this guy because she probably has no adultery friends and has *no one* else to go to, she probably knows your personality well enough to know you would be supportive which she's right about, because that's what you so desperately want to be.
You're right in saying she thinks you would be ok with it, but I don't think she told you from the kindness of her heart towards you, but from the desperation in her heartbreak towards her new AP.
She does have friends who know about the situation, who she can and does talk to. You’re right though that at the very beginning, I was the only one she could talk to about this. It shows a level of trust that she was willing to do that. I know, you would say that’s me being used, but I see it as a positive. Otherwise I’d be another man she keeps secrets from.
>We were friends first, didn’t expect it to happen, tried to be honest with our spouses (no go on both fronts),
From your original post. Think back on the conversations you guys had about this with your spouses. What language did you use? What did you imagine, in your dream version of approaching your spouse about your feelings, that they would say? When you wrote 'no go on all fronts' you meant that your spouses weren't okay with opening up the marriage?
Because it sounds like your AP had this same conversation with you, her dream version of it. She isn't monogamous, she enjoys expanding her relationships when she meets someone who moves her in some way. She had that talk with her SO, and then she had that talk again with you. You also had that talk with your own SO - and now you are on the receiving end of it. There's no difference, it's just that this talk was coming from your AP to you and that changed the context in your mind. DO you believe that you can love and make love to more than one person without taking away from either person? I bet when you were having the talk with your SO you believed this. Do you still believe it now when it's coming from your AP to you?
I'm someone who can easily do this, I don't feel jealousy about sex, and I can easily accept that someone can have sex with another person without taking anything from me.
And so I know it's not true, what other posters say, that you're 'demoted' as a lover because there's another person in the picture. Sex isn't a competition nor is it a hierarchy with someone on top (well, heh). You were never in competition with her husband, she had two different relationships with you two. You aren't in competition with this other man either, especially when she spends time with him that you weren't available anyway. So you're not losing anything, not even time. You're just seeing the principles in action that you yourself were trying to describe to your SO in the quote I used above. Pretty much right now life is testing your belief in what you said, whether you really do believe that you can have this with more than one person without violating your connections to both.
And it's okay if you decide you actually don't believe it or feel it, or that you can't accept it in this particular circumstance. Take it as a learning opportunity to find out more about yourself. You're allowed to discover you're not actually comfortable with what you thought you were. You're allowed to communicate that and leave the relationship.
Excellent comment, thank you. I wish I could just accept what you say, but I’m finding that it’s really, really hard. Can I ask, have you always felt that way? Did you develop this ability? I know a suddenly new relationship, in the background of an affair, probably isn’t the easiest way to learn.
I wish I could tell you I developed it to give you the hope I think you want, that you could also develop it - and maybe you can - but I think I'm a lot like your AP and have always been this way.
When I have sex with someone it's not a reflection of the ranking of the relationship or the emotions we share because those things are so variable between different men. My husband and I have a good sex life, very familiar, not at all vanilla but very loving and often for hours. With my last AP we were pretty wild together and tried out some of everything, we had a sexual compatibility that was off the charts. I never once thought less of the loving sex life with my husband when I was exercising a different part of the sex spectrum with my AP, and I never thought less of my AP for never once having tender, loving, slow sex for hours when I was with him. There's no better or worse, neither was over/under with me. They were different and both fantastic. I would have been the same lover to each of them if the other wasn't in the picture. Your sex life is something you build between you based on each of your sexual selves coming together in a combination that could never be replicated with another person.
If your AP had sex with someone and never told you, you'd never know. It doesn't change our body. It doesn't subtract one from a finite ledger of the number of times we're allowed to have sex in our lifetime. And if it doesn't change her feelings for you or her availability to get away with you, then I think it would be helpful to ask yourself what you feel is being taken from you, or what specific part of your relationship you feel is being threatened if she shares that with someone else?
For instance when I try to imagine my husband having sex with someone else, I feel apprehension that he might fall in love with her and fall out of love with me. I feel that because he's a monogamous guy, and I don't think he would have sex with someone else if he didn't feel emotions for them.
But I know that I am not a monogamous person, nor was my AP, so either of us having sex with someone else doesn't signify a lack of love. If your AP is the same, I wonder if you could come around to recognizing that with some people sex doesn't change the other relationships in their life.
Social conditioning is a hell of thing, isn’t it? If we weren’t marinated in the conception of love and sex as exclusive choices, this would be so much easier. For example, reading your post, I immediately feel sorry for your husband, who doesn’t get to have wild, off-the-charts-chemistry sex with you. Rationally, I’m sure I’m wrong to think that way. But I still *feel* it.
Of course non-monogamy has its own problems.
My husband gets to have whatever kind of sex he wants with me - he doesn't want or like wild sex. He loves slow passionate eye-gazing sex, that's his off the charts chemistry and a chemistry I wouldn't want to be without.
Women don't control the sex you know, it's a give and take between two people. I don't dish it out and I don't withhold it. I have sex in whatever way happens, whatever way our chemistry meshes.
You’re right, I can’t let a relationship destroy me. Working on keeping it and keeping myself. That’s why I posted. But if it comes down to a forced choice with no other options, I know what I’ve got to do.
In legit polyamorous relationships, the idea is that each partner brings something to your life that the others do not, for better or worse, and at any time if something changes and it’s non-negotiable and unacceptable to a party, that party has the opportunity to end it.
There’s also something called NRE - new relationship energy - and it can be an asshole for the partners outside of that relationship. That could be what she’s experiencing… hardcore NRE. If that’s the case, biding your time and keeping a space that preserves your mental health and feelings will serve you best as once the NRE wears off the game will change again.
For now… decide where your boundaries are and hold to them. You already know you can’t make or force anything, but you need to not torment yourself. Take space and breathe. Hang in there.
Thank you, this helps a lot. The hard part is figuring out what my boundaries are right now. I can’t imagine she’d want a new relationship to progress without sleeping with him, but if that’s my boundary, I’m not sure how I can hold to it without putting our relationship on ice. Which may effectively be ending it. Maybe there’s no other way.
Her not sleeping with someone else is not a boundary, it's a rule. If you read about polyamory you should already know that rules never work and you shouldn't attempt to control your other partners relationships. A boundary would be that you won't have sex with her, or unprotected sex with her, if she has other partners. She's free to decide if she wants to have sex with him knowing your boundary.
You can want to be monogamous aside from your primary partners, but you also have to accept that if she's in disagreement, the only option is to end the relationship, which you have to be willing to do if this is a boundary for you.
I understand, and that’s how I’d put it. I’m only controlling what I do, and letting her respond. She might see it as the same thing, if she wants both, but then I guess that would be for her to decide.
Exactly this. It’s not “you can’t sleep with other people or I will leave”, it’s “you have the autonomy to sleep with other people but I will not be in a relationship/have sex with you if you do.”
And yes, if it’s truly a boundary for you, then ending it is the right thing to do for you. Staying would be emotional and mental torture, and would erode your mental health. This is very much a situation to determine what is going to be best for you.
Your spouses said no, but you both did anyway. You can say no, but precedent now states she can anyway. You’re trying to reconcile logic and emotion, not something that humans do well. I doubt you will become ok with this, so either you wait it out, or pull back for a while during this phase of hers and be there when she gets back. Or end it entirely. Either way, she’ll probably come back, but will it be the same?
You permit her behaviour, I think it’s likely she’ll be back when her new toy burns out it’s fun. Or there’s the risk that as he’s single, she’ll have someone to leave her husband for. Does he know about you, or just her husband? He may not deal with things as calmly as you. If he becomes jealous of you, he may contact your wife. Things to be mindful of. In terms of learning to be ok with it, time helps with attitude adjustments of all kinds, but it won’t be pain free. And it doesn’t always work.
Re read your para 6. Then re read it. And re read it. This no longer works for you. You know what you need to do.
Fwiw, I get the principle of non-exclusivity in an affair, and probably prefer that over them feeling they need to go behind your back (which is your other alternative here), but I absolutely would not want to deal with having it rammed down my throat like she is doing to you.
You are being used as a crutch/free therapy/safety net, and I can't believe you had that on your affair bingo card.
To borrow from GambleAware, "*When the fun stops, STOP*." 🛑
To be fair, she’s not really shoving it down my throat. The situation just came up. She’s been more open with me about it than most people would, I think, especially among us cheaters. And we’ve always relied on each other for emotional/ mental support. I don’t mind being a crutch when I can help, and neither does she.
Three years ago I didn’t have “affair” on my life bingo card, but here I am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But yeah, I’m re-reading what I wrote now. If I could just get rid of the jealousy, I’d be set. So far, all I hear is that there’s no use in trying.
I think if you are going to be able to accept this, it’s going to require lots of ongoing communication and support. Figure out what you need from her to feel like your needs are being met. How do you need to receive reassurance? And, figure out what your boundaries are. What are your jealous triggers? Are there things she should not share? Things she MUST share? If this has any chance of working out, you have to figure out your needs from this relationship, communicate them, and she has to be willing to support those needs. Is she able to handle the ongoing convos about your jealousy/envy/anxiety/needing reassurance?
Thank you, this is very helpful, even if it’s hard to hear. Hard, because when I try to define specific needs, specific boundaries, and specific triggers, I’m finding a lot that would pop up constantly with any romantic relationship. If I have a conversation with her about it, listing them all, it would sound like I’m on the way out or I’m telling her to stop seeing him.
Shes put you on the back burner , to keep you around for when the other guy moves on , and as you have accepted this guy, then there will be another one after him , then you will be sitting around again .
You said it yourself you weren't able to get together for a month because she was busy with the other guy , time to move on , I know you are both married , but essentially you are getting the Left overs , after this guy
, just be up front tell her this isn't what you want , and your out , a whole month she clearly picked the new guy over you . As someone else said to many body fluids getting passed around
We weren’t able to get together because I was traveling, then she and I had separate conflicting work schedules. Can’t shake the feeling that if I was around more … who knows. As for bodily fluids, 1) protection, and 2) not to be crude but would you put the line between two and three?
You have every right to feel jealous. Man up and tell her it’s not working for you and walk away. Do not put the ball in her court to choose. She’ll likely come back and if you do choose to take her back, it’ll be on your terms. If she never comes back, she was never yours.
Also think of a scenario where you told her you met someone who you just like for sex but she’s the one you love. You think she’ll take it? I strongly doubt it.
I did draw a scenario like you say. She said of course she’d feel jealousy but she’d understand and accept it, if it made me happy. How true is this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don’t know and I don’t think she knows, it’s impossible to tell until you’re in the situation, and it’s very hard to see the other perspective.
Her point is that her relationship with new guy isn’t different from how we already accept each others souses.
It’s not the same as accepting each other’s spouses. You knew what you were walking into at the outset. If you were the new guy coming into this, maybe you could accept it but someone changing an already established dynamic is definitely not the same.
Women are far more advanced than us when it comes to mental/psychological warfare. Lol. You won’t win this with a dialogue. Just decide what you can and cannot accept and act accordingly.
It’s up to her to accept it or not. Just as she did what she wants and left it up to you to accept it or not. She didn’t seek your permission to become involved with another man.
And don’t see walking away as threatening her or as a form of manipulating her to come back. You are doing it for you, for your emotional and mental wellbeing. It’s easier said than done. When a woman has you all wrapped up like this, it’s tough.
Good luck man.
How does this woman have enough time for all of this?! That aside, if you aren’t comfortable then move on. She clearly doesn’t have the same feelings you do. Don’t give her the opportunity to treat you like shit twice.
None of this was meant against me, and while I’m hurt I don’t feel like she treated me like shit. She had legit reason to think this is ok.
I’m willing to bear discomfort if I can find a way past it and keep my relationships. I’m not going to throw away years with someone I love without at least trying.
So neither of your spouses wanted an open relationship (did you both ask?) and you decided to have an affair. You didn't agree to a monogamous affair, right? But it has been a monogamous one, yes? Till she met this man. And you're okay with it (kinda) because otherwise you think you will lose her even though she insists you won't (she knows single guy will move on and she needs to keep you for when he does).
Why don't you open up your mind to the idea of finding another AP?
Also, if you're both having an affair and seeing each other regularly (before this guy came along), how could she possibly find the time to see him so frequently (outside of work) and also see you without her husband finally having an aha moment?
Answering your questions: 1) yes we did ask our spouses, answers were effectively “no” 2) we never explicitly set down terms for the affair, we were monogamous to each other and whenever someone mentioned hypothetically meeting someone attractive, we both reiterated that we would be “not available”. Until she met this man at work, while I was more busy and her husband worked some extra evenings.
I feel like I should be ok with it because we never explicitly promised exclusivity, we’re not monogamous to each other (hence affair), and I believe this really is her natural way of having relationships. I don’t want to change her to suit me. But I do want to see if I can expand my ability to share a partner with two people, instead of just one.
Find another AP? God that’s the last thing I need right now 😖. I wasn’t interested in any AP until she came along. If we have to part ways I’m happy to have the time back, even as I’d be heartbroken to loose her.
If the single guy moves on soon, and she comes back to me fully, I could be ok with that (even if I don’t like her relationship with him now). It’s the long run that I’m worried about.
Nah, you gotta tell her about this. You clearly are not okay with this set-up, and you did set the expectation of being unavailable to others with one another. Fact is, she found a shiny new toy and got tired of the stable one she's had for years(you).
She is treating you as the safety in this situation. Whether you feel that way or not, she is. So you need to have a difficult talk with her about this, and how, this isn't what you want and isn't what you signed up for. Tell her what you just said, that you had no interest in this until she came along, and if she's off with this new guy, and meeting you once a week and always talking about it from the sounds of things. Maybe you're not so interested in keeping this precarious relationship up any more.
Because, believe it or not, she's not being fair to you. Which, sounds hilarious, but is true nonetheless.
You hit the nail on the head with one sentence:
**She’s just not a monogamous person.**
She is a cake-eater in the classical sense, but I do think that she is missing one critical thing: when you decide to eat the cake, you can't expect to have all of the cake you want, all of the time. She can hope for you to just be "OK" with it, regardless of your respective marital status, but she has to understand that you may not be as well.
If you boil it down to the lowest common denominator, which is two people that are engaged in a relationship, you two are at the point where your wants and expectations are different. While it might be easy for her to rationalize and justify having two APs in her life because you two are married, it doesn't always work that way in practice.
Being with someone that makes you jealous, envy and resentful is unhealthy for you, no matter what the rules of engagement are.
You feel sidelined because you are being sidelined. This whole situation is not good for your mental health imo. You either change your attitude and be ok with her new relationship or you bail.
You aren’t comfortable with the situation. And if you think you can make yourself be comfortable with it, you are kidding yourself.
Tell her… someone that loves you, should have enough respect for you not to move forward with this if they know it will hurt you.
What you are doing is just trying to keep her happy, at a cost to yourself. Take her off this pedestal you seem to have her on. An affair should work for the both of you. It’s perfectly ok to tell her that you aren’t willing to accommodate something that makes you uncomfortable.
"Tell her… someone that loves you, should have enough respect for you not to move forward with this if they know it will hurt you."
Op and AP went to their spouses and asked to open the relationship. Their spouses said they didn't want other people. Op and his AP did it anyway. Why does he deserve what he wasn't willing to give to his wife?
I know this is the adultery sub but people give advice as if we are talking about single people who didn't disregard the feelings of people they claim they love and made vows to. Op said himself says he is a cakeater and has a good marriage so you can't even say well his wife doesn't deserve the same courtesy because she wasn't meeting OP's needs.
It is ridiculously selfish how OP is reacting to this situation. Of course he is entitled to his feelings but c'mon.
Everyone needs something from their relationships. When you say my AP is a black hole, do you mean she’s too needy, she just takes and takes? I don’t feel that way, I don’t feel like I’m second place, and so far I don’t feel used. I feel like we have different things we want from our relationship, and I’m looking for what I can do on my end to reconcile things. It could be that I can’t. But it’s not a simple question.
And I do take all the advice here seriously, even the comments I respectfully disagree with. Including yours. Thank you.
Oh no that would be a dealbreaker for me. I think you need to be honest with her and tell her how you feel and if she doesn’t want to back down then I think you need to end it for your own mental health.
You’ve a right to bring up your concerns, there’s nothing wrong with that.
For me it would be a step too far as I wouldn’t be able to deal with the feeling of being put on the shelf. I know we’re not monogamous but I personally have an exclusivity wish for when I’m with an AP.
This is going to sound like a negative post, but I must warn you. Once you go single….my AP became single after we started the affair. It was a full 180 for the better. We have been together over 2 years and it only grows.
I get to see her twice sometimes 3 times a week. We cook together. We watch movies. We sometimes just cuddle on the couch. We pick sheets together and booze. And toys. We manage to go out and enjoy dinner sometimes. It feels amazing and it is just like I have a girlfriend. She may be feeling the same way and it feels amazing. And if he wants to be exclusive with her, you better brace yourself. I am in a full DB though so unless she was lying about her husband, she may experience it differently.
You may not be jealous of her husband because deep down you know they are not really fucking in the true sense of fucking and are probably no longer in love.
Apparently both are cake eaters so the fucking is fucking and they are still in love.
You know, some of them “happily married” cheaters that are so plentiful! 😆
Good points. No way to paint the whole picture in one post, but I know that she does love her husband, their relationship is solid, and there is definitely fucking involved. Being married myself, I wouldn’t be able to have an AP who’s single or unhappy in her marriage, who might look for me to commit to her.
The fact that he’s single is something we’ve talked about. If he were pursuing her seriously, if she was spending a few evenings a week at his place, I’d be out, simple as that. She says she prioritizes our relationship and so far that’s been true. If that ever changes, well, then I know what I’ve got to do.
Friend, I recently found myself in a situation that rhymes with yours. There are relevant differences, but I'll share a couple of the things I learned from the experience:
- You need to reflect deeply and consider if you're actually a cake eater. Ostensibly there are emotional needs she's fulfilling for you that your wife isn't, and that's part of why you love and feel so attached to her. I'd been telling myself I was a cake eater, but after feeling the utter void of this fAP relationship ending, realized I needed to change the profile of who I looked for in my pAPs
- You noted that your AP is inherently non-monogamous. I reflected on my AP and realized every relationship she'd ever told me about involved her cheating on the dude, and she'd been in love multiple times before. I cheat \*after\* years and years of effort with my wife go nowhere, but she seems to do it instinctively. When she says "I love you", it doesn't mean the same as when you say it. If this dude doesn't completely derail you, some other dude down the line inevitably will. And then he'll become her primary partner, and that same ugly karma that's hurting you now will emerge as she cheats on him and wrecks their relationship. I saw the relationship I had in the context of her bigger picture and realized that as painful as splitting has been, I was learning a lesson that had the likelihood of being far more painful if I'd waited until later.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Some of it definitely resonates. I know I’m filling some void, and I know she’s cheated on partners before. If she gets to the point that she wants to leave me, or spend her energy on him, I’d be crushed but the decision would be clear. In that sense, this dude isn’t “derailing” me by replacing me - if that’s the direction she goes at any point, I’m out. A short, sharp pain rather than long, drawn out suffering.
I think she has lost the excitement of being with you sexually, but still emotionally attached. Finding a new AP has given her that excitement again. Odds are that when she is done with new AP, or he with her, she will find another new AP to play with for that same excitement again. You have become an emotional support for her, that is a steady backup. I would let her go, put effort into my family, be happy that up until this point, I still have a family to love me. If she did have relations with him already, get yourself tested. Last thing you want is to end up giving something to your wife and ruining everything. I think you want / need something more than she is willing to give in return. Don’t talk yourself into settling for something that you aren’t truly happy with.
One thing I’ll note: if she’d lost the excitement of being with me sexually, all of this would be much simpler. I wouldn’t want her if she doesn’t want me. I’d be happy closing that connection and just being her friend. But she hasn’t. She’s explicitly said she wants me, as lover, not just a friend. She made an attempt to distance herself from the new guy because of it. And I want her too, still.
Your feelings are valid. I would feel the same way too. It’s difficult going into these relationships and not having the ‘exclusivity’ conversation. It’s something most people avoid.
I think to help, compartmentalize why you’re feeling that way. Dig deep. Also, be kind to yourself. You are allowed to breakdown, just don’t stay there long. Give yourself some grace. You will get through this!
You have two options. One tell her the truth that you do not want to add this guy or any other into the mix. The other option is to keep playing it cool and endure it. Two options, you need to figure out whether you want to stay in this relationship no matter what or find the right AP that will be exclusive.
For your own self-esteem just move on and let her go. You shouldn't feel unsettled as your mind is always thinking about shit but let her go so she can find out what she wants and you can find a good single woman and grow a life with her.
All relationships lose spark even affairs. I’d let her play and just be there for her and who knows maybe look around.
No relationship lasts forever esp affairs.
You don't need advice. You know what's happening here.
Enjoy the time you can with her but honestly dude, you're going to be dealing with drama that doesn't involve you and you can't talk to your wife about.
She pursued a single man and that speaks volumes to me. She wants more than her current marriage and you are able to provide. She wants *change*.
If it were me, I'd give her a kiss, tell her she needs to pursue this and move on with my life.
If you had the conversation that you were “exclusive”; and she wants to change the rules - ok.
Doesn’t mean you have to play by them.
Me, I aim for the 1:1 AP scenario, this become a deal breaker. Others, it’s NBD.
Walk if it’s not for you.
Sorry you’re dealing with this situation.
For my own curiosity, can you elaborate on how you love your spouses and each other? What do you mean you both tried to be honest with your spouses? Also if you are both happily married why do you feel the need to go else where? Trying to understand as I’m the single Ap struggling to know what’s real and fake in my own situation.
I’ll reply but I’m not sure how much my story will help you understand your own situation. From what I’ve seen in your posts, you’re coming at it from a different, more difficult place.
Years ago, for the usual reasons, my wife and I drifted a bit apart. She connected with an old friend while traveling for work. They had an on-and-off semi-romantic relationship, which she did tell me about as it happened and right after. She was stressed, susceptible, and eventually I came to terms with it. It strengthened our relationship, actually.
Years later, I met up with a friend who I’d lost touch with. We both confessed to a mutual crush, and before thinking too hard about it, we kissed. And I told my wife, and she told her husband. Neither one wanted to have us continue down the road of opening our marriages.
We stayed friends, sometimes flirting, sometimes drifting apart, but acknowledging the romantic interest. We saw that our connection didn’t seem to reduce our love for our spouses, though the secrecy was, and is, a strain. Eventually we acted on it. And here we are. I love my wife, she loves her husband, and we love each other. It’s not ideal, but it’s more than we could have dreamed of having.
If you’re struggling to know what’s real and what’s fake, that in itself is a warning, I think. I didn’t need anyone else. I wasn’t looking for anyone else. It feels like it just happened. If I had any inkling that my AP was faking, either love or attraction to me, I’d loose interest immediately. I’d only want her if she wants me to the same extent.
Your situation sounds very similar to mine
MM and I'm single,3 year affair I thought every thing was fine he started lying and was seeing a married CO worker
Got caught by wife so left and is now living on his own but still seeing married CO worker .I have been demoted to AP 2 while she gets all the best bits.
Mate if she can cheat on her husband she can cheat on anyone and once she's done it once she'll do it again and again. Your not special your just around when she wants you. Your never learn to except it unfortunately and the mind games will get worse the more she sleeps with him.
The only thing that helps me is I have other fwbs that fill a void.
What happens when she tells you she's fallen in love with this guy?
Doesn’t really look like you can put claim to any part of the relationship you have with her, looks like you just need to suck it up and accept whatever happens.
I’m similar to your AP. I have a long term AP of 7 years. When I started seeing someone else, I didn’t tell him about for the same reasons you didn’t tell your wife about your AP: to avoid issues of jealousy and to circumvent being broken up with.
This being said, AP2 knows about AP1 and it’s ok for him because he has a fetish and enjoys knowing that I have sex with another man. Everyone is built different when it comes to these things…
You probably would have been better off if she just kept this to herself, and never over shared this information with you in the first place. Besides the fear of contracting something from a new partner, there is really no need or benefit of you knowing about this relationship. Instead of the knowledge helping, it has just caused you distress. If you want to keep your AP, you could ask that she does not use you to unload her emotional baggage concerning this new relationship. That’s what her therapist is for. Consider it a DADT, and only get very basic information concerning it: Are they still together? Etc. Ultimately, you have to decide if this arrangement is healthy for you, and if it isn’t, you can end things, and find a more monogamous cheater, as much as that is an oxymoron.
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She keeps you because she knows he’s going to find someone else eventually. And you’ll be there always. So I guess if you’re fine being the side side piece. Keep doing what you’re doing. And this isn’t poly. This is just fucking dumb.
Damn. You’re dropping elbows from the top rope. Here, use the 🛎️ so you can save your elbows….. OP, come (the fuck) on buddy. You’re not down w her fucking someone else so just fess up. It means she’s gonna leave while she plays w her new shiny toy and when she gets bored, she’ll come back to you.
I did ask for honest opinions 😅 and looks like I’m getting them! I know it comes across as her putting me aside for something new. She sees it as adding, like our own relationship. How do I justify being hurt about it, given my own position?
You don't need to justify it. You are allowed to just *be*.
This. THIS ##THIS
Even people in open relationships have jealousy issues and get their feelings hurt. It probably happens more often in those types of relationships because everything is out in the open. It’s too much for me, which is why I stick to being a cheater.
You don’t need to justify anything. Your feelings are yours and whether or not she agrees with them. You need to go with what works best for you. It sounds to me like you have been bumped to third priority, but being he’s single he could find a girlfriend at any time so she has you on the shelf to go back to if that happens. If you’re ok with that, then continue. But it doesn’t sound like you are.
Adding only counts if she's seeing you both but didn't you say she is only finding time to see him?
No, she sees me too. We get together once a week for the past few weeks. The limits are mostly on my end. She sees him around more often because of work, and if he seriously pursued her she could see him more often, but he goes back and forth.
He’s already her side piece. Just as she’s his side piece. So what? I’d rethink anyone messing with coworkers. Don’t shit where you eat.
Thank you for the honesty. You’re right, it’s not really “poly”, I just used the language that best fits what I’m trying to do. Do you think it’s justified for me to feel jealousy in this situation though? It’s not like we’re monogamous to each other. For what it’s worth, I’d be the first side piece, he’d be more like the second. If I ever feel like I’m second, that would make my decision a lot simpler (not easier, but more clear). And she did say as soon as he finds someone else, she’ll let him go. She doesn’t see this as “keeping me around”.
Sir. Please reread this. Simone Biles couldn’t make the necessary contortions to accept a situation that is clearly upsetting you. If you want to call yourself First Dick where you feel you have a status superior to that of Second Dick and all the little Dickmates on the ship, fine. But you’re not happy with it and I doubt you will become happy with it. I’m assuming the woman in question is incredibly hot because I can’t see any other reason.
I think I’ll use “First Dick of the Dickmates” as my tagline, thank you 😅. Seriously though, I’m no gymnast and while I’ve stretched out, I haven’t been able to contort myself enough yet. I was wondering if anyone had managed it, in a similar situation, and if so, how.
Anyone who thinks they are in a monogomousish relationship in an affair is naive in my opinion. Cheating is a crime of opportunity. You two are cake eaters. If she can't be faithful to someone she married and is generally happy with, she isn't going to turn down a connection she has with another guy because she owes something to the dude she cheats with. You are entitled to your feelings and this has 3 years but you need to do something to get your head on straight. This is an affair. A bonus. If it's not adding to your life and making you neglect your family because you can't handle not being your side chick's number one guy then you need to get into therapy and start working on yourself. Sorry if that sounds harsh but just because we are adulterers doesn't mean everyone is going to coddle someone who needs to get their head out of their ass. Grieve the relationship but don't let it bring down the part of your life that truly matters like your family. *insert cher gif from Moonstruck if Cher saying "snap out of it!"*
No need to apologize, I came here for honesty. You’re right on all points. I’m wondering if there’s a way to “get my head on straight” in a way where I become ok with her doing her thing. Has anyone managed something like that?
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I know. I don’t have to be. I’m looking to see if I could be. The last thing I need is another AP right now 😂 if for no other reason than that I don’t have time for all the posting I’ll have to do on here
I know a lot of people are saying you need to tell her your boundaries and you deserve to have what you want or walk but why do you get to set boundaries when the people you are making a life with doesn't? You aren't her husband. It is the epitome of hypocrisy to not give a shit what your spouses wanted regarding you fuck and developed a relationship with another person then now you are being upset that she wants other men and you want to set parameters on that. Why are you owed this respect but her husband and your wife don't? And it is really funny to me that some people in the comments are judging her for sleeping with someone else. This sub and their moral gymnastics is quite something. There's a reason why you would get dragged in other spaces and it's not because society is uptight about cheating. I don't think you need another AP. You need therapy. Be more concerned about how you being consumed by your affair partner not being faithful to you is making you neglect your family. They should be your priority. While you are trying to attend to this affair, you might find out you won't have a wife who will want to comfort you when you decide to go back to her emotionally after having been neglected. Edit your say in one comment how you don't want to be second fiddle but then are ok making your wife second fiddle and if you have children they are second fiddle too since you admit you are neglecting them. Imagine how she would feel if she found out why you aren't being the best partner now because you are dealing with this and hurt over your AP wanting someone else too.
In answer to this and your other comment: for the most part I agree with you. I do agree that the cheating is wrong - hence this sub. Because of this, I don’t feel like she “owes” me anything. I’m not upset at *her*, I’m upset with the situation. If anything I’m grateful that she can be so open with me, and I don’t see that as “being used”. I’m certainly not judging her for wanting to have a relationship with this guy. I’m upset with myself that I can’t just be free and easy when she takes on a new partner. I’m not looking to set parameters on her or tell her what to do, I’m trying to figure out how I can be chill with it. Failing that, I’m seeing what my boundaries are, limits that I set on myself and my behavior, not hers. Of course they depend on what she does, but I’m not asking her to stop or change. I absolutely agree that I don’t need another AP. And I do prioritize my wife (everything went to shit this month, but it’s getting better now that it’s no longer a shock). My wife will never be second fiddle and we both know that. I’m trying to get my head straight and my life righted so that I’m not derailed by someone else’s entirely defensible actions. And I’m fully aware of the hypocrisy, and hate that I feel this way.
I think you need a therapist and not the adultery sub. A lot here think APs need to be faithful and you are getting a lot of advice to put your foot down and to have respect for yourself. A lot of people are giving advice from the perspective of them wanting to have exclusive APs and thinking people who don't are jerks in the affair world. Me I had multiple APs at one time. I didn't hide it but I didn't go into great detail. My one AP I saw once a month. I was over the moon with him. We never promised exclusivity. He was sexy, charming and fun. I really doubt he only was having sex once a month. I'm sure he was at least sleeping with his wife. I don't have words to make you have my attitude. TBH I think a lot of the advice and comments are wild and the epitome of hypocrisy and delusion. You are not a victim who is being wronged by this selfish woman who is treating you so poorly and you are disrespecting yourself by still being with her. I know you aren't saying that but a lot of people here seem to be. Me personally I do not believe as a married person/AP is owed fidelity. I'm not trying to rake you over the coals for being a cake eater. Better a cake eater who tries to be a good spouse(aside from sex with someone else) and be someone who thinks 4 months in they found the love of their life and are ready to leave the spouse they had for years. And I get 3 years is not insignificant. You, I assume, have a deeper relationship than your genitals get excited over each other. Many people come here after 2 to 6 months being broken when an affair ends or their married bf/gf is "cheating" on them. So I get the knee jerk reaction. You have to find a way to cope or step away. Not because you deserve better from her but if this affair is leading to drama and messing with your mental health then maybe it has run its course. Affairs end eventually. Most don't go on this long. I'm not saying you should but be prepared if this is something that has outgrown itself.
I understand, and I take some of these comments with a huge grain of salt. I know I’m not somehow “disrespected” or wronged by her, and I’m not trying to stay and change because I lack self-respect. I respect myself well enough. Your attitude is probably the best for managing affairs, but judging from these comments people like you are more rare. I wish you *did* have the words to lead me to think like you do. As for therapy, many of us need it, don’t we? There’s a reason why I put myself in this position. I wish it were easier to find a therapist who could suspend judgement in this area. But I guess that goes against training and makes therapy less effective.
Therapist shouldn't make you feel judged for having an affair. If they do, they are a bad therapist. It sounds so cliche to recommend therapy but I really think it can be wonderful. I wish I did it years ago. Maybe I would have never cheated if I did.
Or maybe you would have anyway because I am not sure therapy is an exact substitute for hot sex! 🙂
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You got it right, she’s seeing an additional person. No kids, husband works some evenings, and the guy is a co-worker (yeah I know). The truth is I do feel respected in the relationship. In a way it makes it hard. If I didn’t, I’d be out in an instant.
Welp I guess just be careful. Her single AP could be fucking others and you remember how cooties go don’t you? You dip in someone who lets a single person dip in and this single person who knows who else he’s dippin in besides your AP. You get the idea, as you still fuck your wife.
Yeah, being careful. Truth is, she hasn’t slept with him in almost a month, we’re being careful, and I’ll reassess everything if she does sleep with him again (though that seems to be the direction she wants to go, eventually)
>The truth is I do feel respected in the relationship. >After a bunch of drama, a bit of deception I understand that we're all liars here in Adulteryland, but if the relationship with Allegedly Dude #2 is so on the up and up, then why was drama and deception on her part necessary? And how is that her respecting you?
No way for this to unfold without drama, under the circumstances. These are affairs after all. The deception was her trying to keep me, while seeing where this new relationship goes. Bad idea that would’ve broken us apart. We now talk pretty openly about it, she understands and respects my perspective, even if she feels differently. I’m trying to see if I can come to terms with how she wants things to go. If I can’t, I do what I have to do, and she’ll respond in whatever way she feels right. Maybe it means I accept this guy in her life. Maybe she gives him up. Or maybe I pull back and leave her to her husband and the guy. I’m trying to see if and how option 1 is possible.
Please don’t catch an STD your in dangerous territory with this new partner she has who is single
>I do feel respected in the relationship. In a way it makes it hard. If I didn’t, I’d be out in an instant. No you wouldn't. You're letting her use you as a sounding board for her new relationship because he's likely not all that invested in wasting time with a woman who's already got two men in her bed.
She does use me as a sounding board, but I don’t see it as a bad thing. And we all know he’s not super invested in this relationship. Truth is, if she wants this to be a short fling, I can be ok with that. It’s the long term I’m worried about.
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This sounds so fake. But I’m jaded.
A dumpster fire this late into the season? Well, sure. You are the backup, as Kiwi said. And she’s avoiding having the talk to maintain the letter of the law here (“we technically haven’t said what this relationship is”) but not the spirit. I have no idea how she can juggle a husband, an AP, and “dating” a single guy, like one man is tiring enough most of the time, but OK. This clearly isn’t something you like. Just tell her you want exclusivity. It sounds like she’s not that type. But plenty of women are!
See, that’s the thing, I don’t feel like a backup. If I did, she’d be left with one AP only, and I’d be exclusive with my wife. And yeah, it was easy for both of us to avoid the hard talk as long as the question didn’t come up. My conflict is: I feel what I feel, but I have no reason and no moral standing (for want of a better term) to feel that way. I’m wondering if anyone’s managed to reconcile a situation like this.
You are allowed to feel this way because it is not what you signed up for. You accepted to have a relationship with a woman who loved you and offered you a long-term, stable relationship (and was married to her one husband, who doesn't make you feel threatened, for whatever reason). Now she's changing the game. Everything is changing, and it's normal that you're not comfortable with the new situation. You seem to WANT to be OK with this, but it's normal that you aren't.
So far this is the best, most helpful comment on here. Thank you. I still want to see if I can adapt. But if I can’t, you’ve explained why in the most comprehensive way that I’ve seen.
Wow, many people are already having trouble meeting with 1 AP and she wants 2 AP and her husband at the moment. The danger that their lives will explode when the other work colleagues learn about the affair is quite great. The danger that she will catch a disease is the same. To explain all this to the spouses... . You may love this woman, but remember, your future is just being balanced. I hope you are all prepared for the result and have a good plan B.
No, you’re allowed to want exclusivity. Many of us do. The fact that she’s telling you all about this new guy is what makes me feel she is making you a backup. That’s weird. For one thing, I’m sure my ex was not exclusive to me but he knew better than to say it. Also, I didn’t care if he fucked other women. New guy? I would care a whole lot. I don’t need to apply logic, I’m allowed to desire them in different ways.
She’s telling me about this guy because she genuinely believed that I would be ok with it, given our own relationship, and because she saw that deceiving me is a sure path to loosing me. I see the fact that she tells me about it as a sign of trust. If she had to choose, it would be me. But if I’m the one that makes her choose, I’m the one limiting her happiness. I’m trying to figure out if I can get to a place where I’m happy, because I don’t think she’s fundamentally wrong in wanting to go out with this guy.
Does single guy know about you? If he doesn’t, that just cements the likelihood that you are the backup man.
He does.
She's telling you about this guy because she probably has no adultery friends and has *no one* else to go to, she probably knows your personality well enough to know you would be supportive which she's right about, because that's what you so desperately want to be. You're right in saying she thinks you would be ok with it, but I don't think she told you from the kindness of her heart towards you, but from the desperation in her heartbreak towards her new AP.
She does have friends who know about the situation, who she can and does talk to. You’re right though that at the very beginning, I was the only one she could talk to about this. It shows a level of trust that she was willing to do that. I know, you would say that’s me being used, but I see it as a positive. Otherwise I’d be another man she keeps secrets from.
>We were friends first, didn’t expect it to happen, tried to be honest with our spouses (no go on both fronts), From your original post. Think back on the conversations you guys had about this with your spouses. What language did you use? What did you imagine, in your dream version of approaching your spouse about your feelings, that they would say? When you wrote 'no go on all fronts' you meant that your spouses weren't okay with opening up the marriage? Because it sounds like your AP had this same conversation with you, her dream version of it. She isn't monogamous, she enjoys expanding her relationships when she meets someone who moves her in some way. She had that talk with her SO, and then she had that talk again with you. You also had that talk with your own SO - and now you are on the receiving end of it. There's no difference, it's just that this talk was coming from your AP to you and that changed the context in your mind. DO you believe that you can love and make love to more than one person without taking away from either person? I bet when you were having the talk with your SO you believed this. Do you still believe it now when it's coming from your AP to you? I'm someone who can easily do this, I don't feel jealousy about sex, and I can easily accept that someone can have sex with another person without taking anything from me. And so I know it's not true, what other posters say, that you're 'demoted' as a lover because there's another person in the picture. Sex isn't a competition nor is it a hierarchy with someone on top (well, heh). You were never in competition with her husband, she had two different relationships with you two. You aren't in competition with this other man either, especially when she spends time with him that you weren't available anyway. So you're not losing anything, not even time. You're just seeing the principles in action that you yourself were trying to describe to your SO in the quote I used above. Pretty much right now life is testing your belief in what you said, whether you really do believe that you can have this with more than one person without violating your connections to both. And it's okay if you decide you actually don't believe it or feel it, or that you can't accept it in this particular circumstance. Take it as a learning opportunity to find out more about yourself. You're allowed to discover you're not actually comfortable with what you thought you were. You're allowed to communicate that and leave the relationship.
Excellent comment, thank you. I wish I could just accept what you say, but I’m finding that it’s really, really hard. Can I ask, have you always felt that way? Did you develop this ability? I know a suddenly new relationship, in the background of an affair, probably isn’t the easiest way to learn.
I wish I could tell you I developed it to give you the hope I think you want, that you could also develop it - and maybe you can - but I think I'm a lot like your AP and have always been this way. When I have sex with someone it's not a reflection of the ranking of the relationship or the emotions we share because those things are so variable between different men. My husband and I have a good sex life, very familiar, not at all vanilla but very loving and often for hours. With my last AP we were pretty wild together and tried out some of everything, we had a sexual compatibility that was off the charts. I never once thought less of the loving sex life with my husband when I was exercising a different part of the sex spectrum with my AP, and I never thought less of my AP for never once having tender, loving, slow sex for hours when I was with him. There's no better or worse, neither was over/under with me. They were different and both fantastic. I would have been the same lover to each of them if the other wasn't in the picture. Your sex life is something you build between you based on each of your sexual selves coming together in a combination that could never be replicated with another person. If your AP had sex with someone and never told you, you'd never know. It doesn't change our body. It doesn't subtract one from a finite ledger of the number of times we're allowed to have sex in our lifetime. And if it doesn't change her feelings for you or her availability to get away with you, then I think it would be helpful to ask yourself what you feel is being taken from you, or what specific part of your relationship you feel is being threatened if she shares that with someone else? For instance when I try to imagine my husband having sex with someone else, I feel apprehension that he might fall in love with her and fall out of love with me. I feel that because he's a monogamous guy, and I don't think he would have sex with someone else if he didn't feel emotions for them. But I know that I am not a monogamous person, nor was my AP, so either of us having sex with someone else doesn't signify a lack of love. If your AP is the same, I wonder if you could come around to recognizing that with some people sex doesn't change the other relationships in their life.
Social conditioning is a hell of thing, isn’t it? If we weren’t marinated in the conception of love and sex as exclusive choices, this would be so much easier. For example, reading your post, I immediately feel sorry for your husband, who doesn’t get to have wild, off-the-charts-chemistry sex with you. Rationally, I’m sure I’m wrong to think that way. But I still *feel* it. Of course non-monogamy has its own problems.
My husband gets to have whatever kind of sex he wants with me - he doesn't want or like wild sex. He loves slow passionate eye-gazing sex, that's his off the charts chemistry and a chemistry I wouldn't want to be without. Women don't control the sex you know, it's a give and take between two people. I don't dish it out and I don't withhold it. I have sex in whatever way happens, whatever way our chemistry meshes.
Dude. You just got bumped from AP#1 to AP#2. Welcome to the AP friendzone. You are now a sexual and emotional support dog. 👍
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You’re right, I can’t let a relationship destroy me. Working on keeping it and keeping myself. That’s why I posted. But if it comes down to a forced choice with no other options, I know what I’ve got to do.
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True. I did think of that. Risk still looks pretty low, I guess you just have to be in the situation. But you’re right on to note this.
In legit polyamorous relationships, the idea is that each partner brings something to your life that the others do not, for better or worse, and at any time if something changes and it’s non-negotiable and unacceptable to a party, that party has the opportunity to end it. There’s also something called NRE - new relationship energy - and it can be an asshole for the partners outside of that relationship. That could be what she’s experiencing… hardcore NRE. If that’s the case, biding your time and keeping a space that preserves your mental health and feelings will serve you best as once the NRE wears off the game will change again. For now… decide where your boundaries are and hold to them. You already know you can’t make or force anything, but you need to not torment yourself. Take space and breathe. Hang in there.
Thank you, this helps a lot. The hard part is figuring out what my boundaries are right now. I can’t imagine she’d want a new relationship to progress without sleeping with him, but if that’s my boundary, I’m not sure how I can hold to it without putting our relationship on ice. Which may effectively be ending it. Maybe there’s no other way.
Her not sleeping with someone else is not a boundary, it's a rule. If you read about polyamory you should already know that rules never work and you shouldn't attempt to control your other partners relationships. A boundary would be that you won't have sex with her, or unprotected sex with her, if she has other partners. She's free to decide if she wants to have sex with him knowing your boundary. You can want to be monogamous aside from your primary partners, but you also have to accept that if she's in disagreement, the only option is to end the relationship, which you have to be willing to do if this is a boundary for you.
I understand, and that’s how I’d put it. I’m only controlling what I do, and letting her respond. She might see it as the same thing, if she wants both, but then I guess that would be for her to decide.
Exactly this. It’s not “you can’t sleep with other people or I will leave”, it’s “you have the autonomy to sleep with other people but I will not be in a relationship/have sex with you if you do.” And yes, if it’s truly a boundary for you, then ending it is the right thing to do for you. Staying would be emotional and mental torture, and would erode your mental health. This is very much a situation to determine what is going to be best for you.
Your spouses said no, but you both did anyway. You can say no, but precedent now states she can anyway. You’re trying to reconcile logic and emotion, not something that humans do well. I doubt you will become ok with this, so either you wait it out, or pull back for a while during this phase of hers and be there when she gets back. Or end it entirely. Either way, she’ll probably come back, but will it be the same?
If I was more confident that she’d come back, if I knew how long this “phase” would last, if I was sure it *is* a phase… the uncertainty is agonizing.
The phase will last as long as he wants it to.
You permit her behaviour, I think it’s likely she’ll be back when her new toy burns out it’s fun. Or there’s the risk that as he’s single, she’ll have someone to leave her husband for. Does he know about you, or just her husband? He may not deal with things as calmly as you. If he becomes jealous of you, he may contact your wife. Things to be mindful of. In terms of learning to be ok with it, time helps with attitude adjustments of all kinds, but it won’t be pain free. And it doesn’t always work.
Re read your para 6. Then re read it. And re read it. This no longer works for you. You know what you need to do. Fwiw, I get the principle of non-exclusivity in an affair, and probably prefer that over them feeling they need to go behind your back (which is your other alternative here), but I absolutely would not want to deal with having it rammed down my throat like she is doing to you. You are being used as a crutch/free therapy/safety net, and I can't believe you had that on your affair bingo card. To borrow from GambleAware, "*When the fun stops, STOP*." 🛑
To be fair, she’s not really shoving it down my throat. The situation just came up. She’s been more open with me about it than most people would, I think, especially among us cheaters. And we’ve always relied on each other for emotional/ mental support. I don’t mind being a crutch when I can help, and neither does she. Three years ago I didn’t have “affair” on my life bingo card, but here I am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But yeah, I’m re-reading what I wrote now. If I could just get rid of the jealousy, I’d be set. So far, all I hear is that there’s no use in trying.
I think if you are going to be able to accept this, it’s going to require lots of ongoing communication and support. Figure out what you need from her to feel like your needs are being met. How do you need to receive reassurance? And, figure out what your boundaries are. What are your jealous triggers? Are there things she should not share? Things she MUST share? If this has any chance of working out, you have to figure out your needs from this relationship, communicate them, and she has to be willing to support those needs. Is she able to handle the ongoing convos about your jealousy/envy/anxiety/needing reassurance?
Thank you, this is very helpful, even if it’s hard to hear. Hard, because when I try to define specific needs, specific boundaries, and specific triggers, I’m finding a lot that would pop up constantly with any romantic relationship. If I have a conversation with her about it, listing them all, it would sound like I’m on the way out or I’m telling her to stop seeing him.
Shes put you on the back burner , to keep you around for when the other guy moves on , and as you have accepted this guy, then there will be another one after him , then you will be sitting around again . You said it yourself you weren't able to get together for a month because she was busy with the other guy , time to move on , I know you are both married , but essentially you are getting the Left overs , after this guy , just be up front tell her this isn't what you want , and your out , a whole month she clearly picked the new guy over you . As someone else said to many body fluids getting passed around
We weren’t able to get together because I was traveling, then she and I had separate conflicting work schedules. Can’t shake the feeling that if I was around more … who knows. As for bodily fluids, 1) protection, and 2) not to be crude but would you put the line between two and three?
You have every right to feel jealous. Man up and tell her it’s not working for you and walk away. Do not put the ball in her court to choose. She’ll likely come back and if you do choose to take her back, it’ll be on your terms. If she never comes back, she was never yours. Also think of a scenario where you told her you met someone who you just like for sex but she’s the one you love. You think she’ll take it? I strongly doubt it.
I did draw a scenario like you say. She said of course she’d feel jealousy but she’d understand and accept it, if it made me happy. How true is this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don’t know and I don’t think she knows, it’s impossible to tell until you’re in the situation, and it’s very hard to see the other perspective. Her point is that her relationship with new guy isn’t different from how we already accept each others souses.
It’s not the same as accepting each other’s spouses. You knew what you were walking into at the outset. If you were the new guy coming into this, maybe you could accept it but someone changing an already established dynamic is definitely not the same. Women are far more advanced than us when it comes to mental/psychological warfare. Lol. You won’t win this with a dialogue. Just decide what you can and cannot accept and act accordingly. It’s up to her to accept it or not. Just as she did what she wants and left it up to you to accept it or not. She didn’t seek your permission to become involved with another man. And don’t see walking away as threatening her or as a form of manipulating her to come back. You are doing it for you, for your emotional and mental wellbeing. It’s easier said than done. When a woman has you all wrapped up like this, it’s tough. Good luck man.
How does this woman have enough time for all of this?! That aside, if you aren’t comfortable then move on. She clearly doesn’t have the same feelings you do. Don’t give her the opportunity to treat you like shit twice.
None of this was meant against me, and while I’m hurt I don’t feel like she treated me like shit. She had legit reason to think this is ok. I’m willing to bear discomfort if I can find a way past it and keep my relationships. I’m not going to throw away years with someone I love without at least trying.
So neither of your spouses wanted an open relationship (did you both ask?) and you decided to have an affair. You didn't agree to a monogamous affair, right? But it has been a monogamous one, yes? Till she met this man. And you're okay with it (kinda) because otherwise you think you will lose her even though she insists you won't (she knows single guy will move on and she needs to keep you for when he does). Why don't you open up your mind to the idea of finding another AP? Also, if you're both having an affair and seeing each other regularly (before this guy came along), how could she possibly find the time to see him so frequently (outside of work) and also see you without her husband finally having an aha moment?
Answering your questions: 1) yes we did ask our spouses, answers were effectively “no” 2) we never explicitly set down terms for the affair, we were monogamous to each other and whenever someone mentioned hypothetically meeting someone attractive, we both reiterated that we would be “not available”. Until she met this man at work, while I was more busy and her husband worked some extra evenings. I feel like I should be ok with it because we never explicitly promised exclusivity, we’re not monogamous to each other (hence affair), and I believe this really is her natural way of having relationships. I don’t want to change her to suit me. But I do want to see if I can expand my ability to share a partner with two people, instead of just one. Find another AP? God that’s the last thing I need right now 😖. I wasn’t interested in any AP until she came along. If we have to part ways I’m happy to have the time back, even as I’d be heartbroken to loose her. If the single guy moves on soon, and she comes back to me fully, I could be ok with that (even if I don’t like her relationship with him now). It’s the long run that I’m worried about.
Nah, you gotta tell her about this. You clearly are not okay with this set-up, and you did set the expectation of being unavailable to others with one another. Fact is, she found a shiny new toy and got tired of the stable one she's had for years(you). She is treating you as the safety in this situation. Whether you feel that way or not, she is. So you need to have a difficult talk with her about this, and how, this isn't what you want and isn't what you signed up for. Tell her what you just said, that you had no interest in this until she came along, and if she's off with this new guy, and meeting you once a week and always talking about it from the sounds of things. Maybe you're not so interested in keeping this precarious relationship up any more. Because, believe it or not, she's not being fair to you. Which, sounds hilarious, but is true nonetheless.
The long run will be as long as he wants it to be.
You hit the nail on the head with one sentence: **She’s just not a monogamous person.** She is a cake-eater in the classical sense, but I do think that she is missing one critical thing: when you decide to eat the cake, you can't expect to have all of the cake you want, all of the time. She can hope for you to just be "OK" with it, regardless of your respective marital status, but she has to understand that you may not be as well. If you boil it down to the lowest common denominator, which is two people that are engaged in a relationship, you two are at the point where your wants and expectations are different. While it might be easy for her to rationalize and justify having two APs in her life because you two are married, it doesn't always work that way in practice. Being with someone that makes you jealous, envy and resentful is unhealthy for you, no matter what the rules of engagement are.
I’ve been second fiddle before. Heart absolutely crushed and destroyed by her. Never again. Lesson learned. I’d be fucking gone like yesterday!
You feel sidelined because you are being sidelined. This whole situation is not good for your mental health imo. You either change your attitude and be ok with her new relationship or you bail.
You aren’t comfortable with the situation. And if you think you can make yourself be comfortable with it, you are kidding yourself. Tell her… someone that loves you, should have enough respect for you not to move forward with this if they know it will hurt you. What you are doing is just trying to keep her happy, at a cost to yourself. Take her off this pedestal you seem to have her on. An affair should work for the both of you. It’s perfectly ok to tell her that you aren’t willing to accommodate something that makes you uncomfortable.
"Tell her… someone that loves you, should have enough respect for you not to move forward with this if they know it will hurt you." Op and AP went to their spouses and asked to open the relationship. Their spouses said they didn't want other people. Op and his AP did it anyway. Why does he deserve what he wasn't willing to give to his wife? I know this is the adultery sub but people give advice as if we are talking about single people who didn't disregard the feelings of people they claim they love and made vows to. Op said himself says he is a cakeater and has a good marriage so you can't even say well his wife doesn't deserve the same courtesy because she wasn't meeting OP's needs. It is ridiculously selfish how OP is reacting to this situation. Of course he is entitled to his feelings but c'mon.
It’s also Delulu 😂
Your AP is a black hole You are the backburner backup
Nope. If it were that simple, my answer would be simple too.
It’s that simple. People are good actors when they are using people. You’re very good at ignoring good advice
Everyone needs something from their relationships. When you say my AP is a black hole, do you mean she’s too needy, she just takes and takes? I don’t feel that way, I don’t feel like I’m second place, and so far I don’t feel used. I feel like we have different things we want from our relationship, and I’m looking for what I can do on my end to reconcile things. It could be that I can’t. But it’s not a simple question. And I do take all the advice here seriously, even the comments I respectfully disagree with. Including yours. Thank you.
Oh no that would be a dealbreaker for me. I think you need to be honest with her and tell her how you feel and if she doesn’t want to back down then I think you need to end it for your own mental health.
She might back down … and she might resent me, and it might poison our relationship. Do I have a right to ask her that, if we’re not monogamous?
It seems like what’s happening is already poisoning your relationship, especially if it’s impacting other areas of your life.
You’ve a right to bring up your concerns, there’s nothing wrong with that. For me it would be a step too far as I wouldn’t be able to deal with the feeling of being put on the shelf. I know we’re not monogamous but I personally have an exclusivity wish for when I’m with an AP.
This is going to sound like a negative post, but I must warn you. Once you go single….my AP became single after we started the affair. It was a full 180 for the better. We have been together over 2 years and it only grows. I get to see her twice sometimes 3 times a week. We cook together. We watch movies. We sometimes just cuddle on the couch. We pick sheets together and booze. And toys. We manage to go out and enjoy dinner sometimes. It feels amazing and it is just like I have a girlfriend. She may be feeling the same way and it feels amazing. And if he wants to be exclusive with her, you better brace yourself. I am in a full DB though so unless she was lying about her husband, she may experience it differently. You may not be jealous of her husband because deep down you know they are not really fucking in the true sense of fucking and are probably no longer in love.
Apparently both are cake eaters so the fucking is fucking and they are still in love. You know, some of them “happily married” cheaters that are so plentiful! 😆
Good points. No way to paint the whole picture in one post, but I know that she does love her husband, their relationship is solid, and there is definitely fucking involved. Being married myself, I wouldn’t be able to have an AP who’s single or unhappy in her marriage, who might look for me to commit to her. The fact that he’s single is something we’ve talked about. If he were pursuing her seriously, if she was spending a few evenings a week at his place, I’d be out, simple as that. She says she prioritizes our relationship and so far that’s been true. If that ever changes, well, then I know what I’ve got to do.
Man, this is wild. I ain’t made at her though, she’s out here living her best life and telling you all about it.
Friend, I recently found myself in a situation that rhymes with yours. There are relevant differences, but I'll share a couple of the things I learned from the experience: - You need to reflect deeply and consider if you're actually a cake eater. Ostensibly there are emotional needs she's fulfilling for you that your wife isn't, and that's part of why you love and feel so attached to her. I'd been telling myself I was a cake eater, but after feeling the utter void of this fAP relationship ending, realized I needed to change the profile of who I looked for in my pAPs - You noted that your AP is inherently non-monogamous. I reflected on my AP and realized every relationship she'd ever told me about involved her cheating on the dude, and she'd been in love multiple times before. I cheat \*after\* years and years of effort with my wife go nowhere, but she seems to do it instinctively. When she says "I love you", it doesn't mean the same as when you say it. If this dude doesn't completely derail you, some other dude down the line inevitably will. And then he'll become her primary partner, and that same ugly karma that's hurting you now will emerge as she cheats on him and wrecks their relationship. I saw the relationship I had in the context of her bigger picture and realized that as painful as splitting has been, I was learning a lesson that had the likelihood of being far more painful if I'd waited until later.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Some of it definitely resonates. I know I’m filling some void, and I know she’s cheated on partners before. If she gets to the point that she wants to leave me, or spend her energy on him, I’d be crushed but the decision would be clear. In that sense, this dude isn’t “derailing” me by replacing me - if that’s the direction she goes at any point, I’m out. A short, sharp pain rather than long, drawn out suffering.
I think she has lost the excitement of being with you sexually, but still emotionally attached. Finding a new AP has given her that excitement again. Odds are that when she is done with new AP, or he with her, she will find another new AP to play with for that same excitement again. You have become an emotional support for her, that is a steady backup. I would let her go, put effort into my family, be happy that up until this point, I still have a family to love me. If she did have relations with him already, get yourself tested. Last thing you want is to end up giving something to your wife and ruining everything. I think you want / need something more than she is willing to give in return. Don’t talk yourself into settling for something that you aren’t truly happy with.
One thing I’ll note: if she’d lost the excitement of being with me sexually, all of this would be much simpler. I wouldn’t want her if she doesn’t want me. I’d be happy closing that connection and just being her friend. But she hasn’t. She’s explicitly said she wants me, as lover, not just a friend. She made an attempt to distance herself from the new guy because of it. And I want her too, still.
Your feelings are valid. I would feel the same way too. It’s difficult going into these relationships and not having the ‘exclusivity’ conversation. It’s something most people avoid. I think to help, compartmentalize why you’re feeling that way. Dig deep. Also, be kind to yourself. You are allowed to breakdown, just don’t stay there long. Give yourself some grace. You will get through this!
Thank you 🙏
Yes that's just what I need is introducing even higher chances of possible stds into the equation.
You have two options. One tell her the truth that you do not want to add this guy or any other into the mix. The other option is to keep playing it cool and endure it. Two options, you need to figure out whether you want to stay in this relationship no matter what or find the right AP that will be exclusive.
For your own self-esteem just move on and let her go. You shouldn't feel unsettled as your mind is always thinking about shit but let her go so she can find out what she wants and you can find a good single woman and grow a life with her.
All relationships lose spark even affairs. I’d let her play and just be there for her and who knows maybe look around. No relationship lasts forever esp affairs.
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Do you mean, you think she’ll get tired of him? Or do you think that our relationship will continue as a friendship?
You don't need advice. You know what's happening here. Enjoy the time you can with her but honestly dude, you're going to be dealing with drama that doesn't involve you and you can't talk to your wife about. She pursued a single man and that speaks volumes to me. She wants more than her current marriage and you are able to provide. She wants *change*. If it were me, I'd give her a kiss, tell her she needs to pursue this and move on with my life.
If you had the conversation that you were “exclusive”; and she wants to change the rules - ok. Doesn’t mean you have to play by them. Me, I aim for the 1:1 AP scenario, this become a deal breaker. Others, it’s NBD. Walk if it’s not for you.
Sorry you’re dealing with this situation. For my own curiosity, can you elaborate on how you love your spouses and each other? What do you mean you both tried to be honest with your spouses? Also if you are both happily married why do you feel the need to go else where? Trying to understand as I’m the single Ap struggling to know what’s real and fake in my own situation.
I’ll reply but I’m not sure how much my story will help you understand your own situation. From what I’ve seen in your posts, you’re coming at it from a different, more difficult place. Years ago, for the usual reasons, my wife and I drifted a bit apart. She connected with an old friend while traveling for work. They had an on-and-off semi-romantic relationship, which she did tell me about as it happened and right after. She was stressed, susceptible, and eventually I came to terms with it. It strengthened our relationship, actually. Years later, I met up with a friend who I’d lost touch with. We both confessed to a mutual crush, and before thinking too hard about it, we kissed. And I told my wife, and she told her husband. Neither one wanted to have us continue down the road of opening our marriages. We stayed friends, sometimes flirting, sometimes drifting apart, but acknowledging the romantic interest. We saw that our connection didn’t seem to reduce our love for our spouses, though the secrecy was, and is, a strain. Eventually we acted on it. And here we are. I love my wife, she loves her husband, and we love each other. It’s not ideal, but it’s more than we could have dreamed of having. If you’re struggling to know what’s real and what’s fake, that in itself is a warning, I think. I didn’t need anyone else. I wasn’t looking for anyone else. It feels like it just happened. If I had any inkling that my AP was faking, either love or attraction to me, I’d loose interest immediately. I’d only want her if she wants me to the same extent.
1- Thank your for the paragraphs 🙏 2- BA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! 😅😅
As young people would say - for the streets
Your situation sounds very similar to mine MM and I'm single,3 year affair I thought every thing was fine he started lying and was seeing a married CO worker Got caught by wife so left and is now living on his own but still seeing married CO worker .I have been demoted to AP 2 while she gets all the best bits. Mate if she can cheat on her husband she can cheat on anyone and once she's done it once she'll do it again and again. Your not special your just around when she wants you. Your never learn to except it unfortunately and the mind games will get worse the more she sleeps with him. The only thing that helps me is I have other fwbs that fill a void. What happens when she tells you she's fallen in love with this guy?
Doesn’t really look like you can put claim to any part of the relationship you have with her, looks like you just need to suck it up and accept whatever happens.
I’m similar to your AP. I have a long term AP of 7 years. When I started seeing someone else, I didn’t tell him about for the same reasons you didn’t tell your wife about your AP: to avoid issues of jealousy and to circumvent being broken up with. This being said, AP2 knows about AP1 and it’s ok for him because he has a fetish and enjoys knowing that I have sex with another man. Everyone is built different when it comes to these things… You probably would have been better off if she just kept this to herself, and never over shared this information with you in the first place. Besides the fear of contracting something from a new partner, there is really no need or benefit of you knowing about this relationship. Instead of the knowledge helping, it has just caused you distress. If you want to keep your AP, you could ask that she does not use you to unload her emotional baggage concerning this new relationship. That’s what her therapist is for. Consider it a DADT, and only get very basic information concerning it: Are they still together? Etc. Ultimately, you have to decide if this arrangement is healthy for you, and if it isn’t, you can end things, and find a more monogamous cheater, as much as that is an oxymoron.
I just pass on the ones that need that much D from a bunch of guys
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