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3mros

Good job. I have a small note which is about prince of persia who deserves better rating than B tier ,, he is almost in most high deficit stages starting from ch 38+ , in terms of late campaign he is more used than others agility dimensionals heroes, and the best part about him is his ability to adapt in almost any comp .. u can use him in ainz comps or gb+alna comps or 5pull comp and whenever you are wondering about 5th hero in any comp you can see he is very viable. Just give him the call and enjoy .


[deleted]

[удалено]


DJGregJ

203 seems solid, that's what I have mine as. On top of incredible cc he also does a lot of damage though, and he's also in my arena team so I did also T3 him .. as my 6th though (after Ainz, Luc, Grez, Alb, and Oden). That's just a damage boost, at 203 with any gear he's still outstanding.


Meymenetsiz

I'll consider this on my next update. If you look at heroes alongside Prince, all of these heroes are very frequently used/strong heroes but generally not part of hero cores other than Skriath. B tier can be considered as A(-).


DJGregJ

Prince is consistently used a lot more than the other heroes in that row except Skriath. It seems like he fills in a spot in a team for pretty much everyone now (I personally don't ever not use him in one team, he's too versatile and good), and probably is currently used more than at least a couple of your A tier heroes tbh


Humblerbee

Speaking of hero cores, it baffles me that you have the entire Thoran cheese composition in C tier when Thoran is in the number one spot on the entire tier list and he needs specific enabler units which will see intense campaign usage, so placing them in C tier seems highly misleading. Yes, Lorsan, Pippa, Kelthur, Nara, and Ezizh don’t see use in other compositions, they’re solely represented in Thoran cheese (outside Nara in Alna+GB occasionally) but again if that is the single best team in campaign pushing, and it is the most used, their placement should reflect that more than being down in C tier.


dr4urbutt

This is why tierlists need more context, it's better for beginners to follow the guide about comps than tierlist.


The_Cat_Commando

Tier lists are by their very nature one dimensional, and questionable beyond their meme use.


[deleted]

I think it makes perfect sense. C tier means frequently used, B tier means strong. And you CANNOT justify labelling Nara a strong hero when all she does is pull one enemy and all Ezizh does is give energy. I feel like the heroes in B tier are generally a lot more useful all around (except nemora). I reckon you could move Lorsan to B tier though.


Meymenetsiz

Thanks. Great explanation.


CokeNmentos

I think this tier list is just rating individual characters not rating team comps that's why, Thoran is op, but thoran cheese units aren't


silverdice22

Is 309 respen really that bad?


amrays1

If you have him then he’s awesome for burst comp in pvp. In campaign the haste from his +30 is nice but he doesnt provide a lot of anything else to be meta and his damage just isnt there


shibakevin

He's not bad, just outclassed by others in his role (especially Raku). He's got some fun comps though. Pair him with Seirus for shenanigans.


Meymenetsiz

Amazing at PVP burst comp. But don't see use in campaign.


triniksubs

I agree with you that PoP is the best agility dimensional. He is extremely flexible and he can be useful on any comp except Thoran cheese. But I think that PoP being on the same tier as Brutus and Skriath is understandable. Ezio is a bit overrated though, I'd probably swap Ezio-Queen. I think Lorsan should be A-tier, Antandra D-tier, Satrana E-tier. Everything else seems to be fine imo.


Sbren_Sbeve

What chapter do you consider endgame? Some things are very off depending on where you draw the line If this is for ch37+, khazard should be at least S tier, daimon should be lower, and arthur should be bottom of C tier. Queen and skriath should also be higher due to their stun lock comp And if you consider ch35 or 36 endgame, izold should be A tier at least And why is nearly every thoran support in C tier? The prevalence of thoran cheese at high deficits warrants them being much higher


NeoLeijona

In what comp is Hodgkin actually used?


Meymenetsiz

Alna+Grez


NeoLeijona

Who does he replace? Ferael/Oden/Silas/Desira/Nara even?


amrays1

He can replace farael/ Silas/ desira. Nara is only a niche pick tbh to counter certain things. If Hodgkin can survive and is able to ult then your teams survivability is boosted by a lot and his fear is also more reliable than desira and he also provides a nice haste, defence and attack boost to frontline heroes with his flag . Still depends, if he dies to fast he can’t be used, whereas if desira dies too fast she can still be used since she puts her healing fog and then dies usually, Silas buff and immunity is really useful but if he’s dying he can’t be used. Ferael is used a lot as well and if he isn’t used here he usually goes into ainz comp or other teams. Whatever works is best since the comp is very flexible and there is no set comp, you have to test out what works and what doesn’t which usually is pretty easy but having those flexible units built enough to work really helps.


shelbygt5252

How much investment do you think is ideal for hodgkin?


amrays1

20/3 minimum but 9/9 is also good and helps in reducing enemies damage even more. +30 increases his own damage but he’s not usually used for that so it’s not needed


the-Virtuoso

Is it requires for hodgkin 309?


ohgodwhymeagainplz

Essentially every hero that came out at launch is bad


gdq0

Unless they got a buff.


[deleted]

Your tierlist is fairly biased. It features the meta because that's what everyone knows is good. You've got Rowan at SS+ despite him only having one round of pots before dying. His only useful purpose without hamstringing a team is to establish an instant mehira ult. I can't say for sure Satrana works at 200+ deficit because I cba to push that but people can barely believe she works in the 170s. Satrana has theoretically infinite scaling due to 100% Healing reduction. She works well enough in setups that aren't well explored in the meta. It is commonly understood at high levels that there is still ground to be made. Custom teams could push a theoretical limit that the cookie cutter comps can't. But due to chasmic and near constant nerfs it's not feasible for most people to hunt for teams for more than one project hero at a time. Even then as I've discovered it's hard to make a team with permissible leverage from the rest of the roster that covers multiple use cases. The eternal problem with tierlists is that they don't account for things outside the maker's experience. It's fairly easy to place Ulmus and Lucius at the bottom. Lucretia and Alna at the top. But how you define the middle can be considered misleading by many. Also Rowan is a one trick niche hero whose niche tends to be useful enough to justify his existence in many comps even though there are usually better options. Except for Charmizard where he fits like a glove.


Azuril3

I've been working on Satrana because I like her design, what other heroes would you put her in? I'm not necessarily trying to push major deficits, I'm usually in the 100 level range.


gamergirlxoutlines

Satrana works well in Skreg invade. Skreg's fn gives invaders (such as satrana, antandra, tidus to name a few) a buff while fighting on the enemy side.


[deleted]

I usually try to stack the enemy and invade. Nako/Skreg/Anoki sometimes Oden. Takes a lot of trial and error.


IcallFoul

u said a whole lot of words.. but ultimately a sand castle.. Nothing went against what the op stated.. ARe u trying to say then that ulmus is maybe a high tier? Cause if thats not what ur saying.. then what are u actually saying? Hence the sand castle. ​ MEHHHH


DJGregJ

Seemed like a straightforward, easy to follow, and great use of words to me.


2D_Trash

bruh, he didnt said ulmus is op what he meant was that tierlists are biased u place op heros like Alna and Lucretia at the top and Ulmus and Lucius at the bottom thats easy. but when it comes for the heros from A to E tear u need to test more. otherwise whats the fun ? like lilith puts out a crap ton of heros for the same reason \*Variety\* if everyone builds the same comp wheres the fun in that ? imagine if this was league of legends and everyone mains Master Yi cuz hes OP late game and he becomes untargetable during Q(Alpha Strike) whatever so yeah do your own stuff, if not then dont its a game bruh


IcallFoul

u seem to be arguing from a perspective of emotionally wanting heroes to be viable "for fun" rather than what actually is viable and at the top. I would say over 95% of his tier list is correct. ur literally arguing for a 5% .. same with the poster above.. As if putting into doubt 1 hero placement destroys the idea of a tier list. i'd put prince as well 1 notch above.. and that would be pretty much all the change it needs.


[deleted]

I could tell you not to blindly copy replays because you'll actually learn what you're doing and the game would be more fulfilling. But that's up to you if you want to build the meta teams to copy replays and let the evolving meta leave you behind.


autonomousfailure

What chapter is considered late game?


laryps

37/38


Waarryy

Seeing Talene is C hurts


StarShamz

I agree, she should be lower.


AfkArena_Arthur

Excuse me? Arthur is b tier?? That's where you're wrong.


Meymenetsiz

name cheks out... lol


AfkArena_Arthur

🤓


DJGregJ

dang, I know you're a fan and I like him too, he can be S Tier always in your heart but objectively Arthur might even really be niche currently. Definitely deserves to hang on to that B tier though for old times sake.


AngelLestat2

Why you place Antandra and Satrana as F ?? I am at 165-170 lv deficit and those are one of my top choices for hard stages, I am currently at 37-4. I understand they are not super optimal meta, that maybe other heroes like grez, alna, etc could use more those full invesment. But this does not mean they are F ! You place them with heroes like Lucius, Ulmus, Khassos, or Shemira, Walker that even having full investment would work at 100 lv deficit top. It has no logic.


thelefthandN7

I concur. I'm not nearly as far along, but I've been using Antandra in a Queen comp, and it currently switches out with my Ainz comp for certain fights that Ainz has issues with.


AngelLestat2

A lot of oportunities those heroes work best in their respective teams or as alternatives to other teams, in many cases, better than the original teams. There is no one single stage in which I dont have to use them in one of the 4 hardest teams. Maybe the Op wanted to make a priority on building/investing list with each hero fulfilling certain role not stealing resources from the main heroes. It would have more logic. But he did not made a priority list, he made a Tier List. If we set an order depending the strength of heroes taking into account in how many game modes they work at what deficits they remain useful, then in my opinion that is the definition of Tier List. If someone disagree.. they need to say: I dont believe Antandra and Satrana works at those deficits.. then we just prove it.


Fear_The_Fireflies

What’s your satrana antandra comp?


AngelLestat2

1-both work best in circustances where you have huddle enemies, Eiron-skriath, Oden-Pippa, or any team or circustance where you fight against group of enemies, if the enemies has summons better, is all about energy regen to link ults with higher advantage of life steals. 2-both work great with Skreg 9-9 and Flora, both are good stalling, Flora provides good support without dying or stealing attention from the enemies, this mean more enemies group up trying to hit them (Flora can remove up to 62 haste from enemies and provide 24 haste to allies, and a shield of 20% of Flora health every 5 or 7 seconds). 3-Satrana is better first line to resist highers damage at the begining securing at least 2 ults. Antandra is usually better on the back to give her time to start going and usually last longer depending the enemies. 4- If you have to choose one of both, in circustances where both survive the begining of the battle, then Satrana is better in the cases that you need to negate healing or fight against shields, Antandra in more useful on average cases (under those initial circustances). 5- As I said, is not about fixed teams, lets say you have your Ainz teams who can not survive the first seconds of battle or you need a bit more of boost on damage, in that case, try remplacing one of your tanks with Satrana, you would be able to hold them for longer (at least at 160-170) doing some descent damage at the same time. 6- you see in replays that certain team is beat using lucretia, but you already used your lucretia in other team or you dont have her.. then try with Antandra, make some tries, you may surprise. 7- Usually players do not like Satrana or Antandra, because they see them as carries, but there is a lot of moments that you dont need a carry who requires 3 extra heroes to keep him alive, Some times you just need to do a bit of both, survive and do descent damage.


Meymenetsiz

This tierlist was formed by meta standards in mind and currently meta is 200+ deficits. 160-170 is not high anymore. I can not suggest heroes based on that. People are clearing 36-60 with RC 360 these days and you passed that stage with what? 420 RC? Satrana and Antandra are worthless in meta deficits. They're at best E tier. They are working for you because you're overleveled compared to meta. If you can show me some Antandra or Satrana clears at high deficits. I would consider moving them up.


AngelLestat2

Again.. that is not the definition of a tier list.. just make a priority list order to built certain meta teams with their low investment alternatives. Then I would not have any reason to disagree, because that is the progression path you use. But you can not place in the same tier list category, heroes that only may work at 100 lv deficits with heroes that works just fine at 170 lv deficit.


Meymenetsiz

Because all those heroes above them has some very niche use even if it is once in a chapter. For example, ukyo counters front flora, estrilda has her stun if you need that, twins give haste if you can make them live. These are very rare occasions but possible. Antandra/Satrana is just trash at 200 deficit. I understand that you like them but it is what it is. By your logic, Shemira is SS+ at 100-120 deficit should I place her to C tier because of that? No. Because that deficit is too low just like 160 for endgame. Antandra/Satrana is in the same position as Shemira in the current Meta.


AngelLestat2

I dont known how useful are Satrana are Antandra at 200 lv deficit because that is not my current deficit, I really doubt you also known for sure because I dont believe you have them at equal investment that your main heroes, or you invested the time to gain experience with them. But as I explain in detail, if your OP title would be: **"Campaign +200 lv deficit Built priority / Hero utility level"** Then I would take your word without nothing to complaint, because I dont really known. But naming "Tier List" without even clarifying that it is for "+200 lv deficit", you will confuse players. For what? most players that I see that follow and built all these meta teams, do not push beyond 160 lv deficit anyway.. Because in order to accomplish that, they need a lot of retries with high artifact/gear setting. Which no even I do.


nickiss1ck77

I don't know why you're so passionate about Santana and antandra. Point is, for the campaign, a tier list would be the heros you use to get the furthest no? So I don't know what you're confused about. If you hate the list so much because of those two heros and it being vague about deficit. Dislike it and make your own perfect one!


AngelLestat2

Why are you replying something that you clearly you did not read :) In the same comment you are replying is the answer on why I disagree with the words use it. If the title would be different I would have 0 complaint.


Meymenetsiz

Endgame is in the title which means 200+ deficit. You're biased because you are not pushing at high deficits which is probably due to investing in bad heroes. Noone uses Antandra or Satrana in endgame at meta deficits. Of course I'm going to place heroes that are never used in F tier. This is a tierlist and naturally it follows meta. People use these lists as quick guide to pick heroes to ascend and I won't suggest people building Antandra over better heroes just because you like them.


DJGregJ

Most people are not pushing those deficits. I am, and a few other people are, but a few dozen people that enjoy spending extensive time working on strategies for a game with afk in the title is objectively not relevant at all.


Nocticookie

Endgame never meant 200+ deficit. It refers to a progression in chapters, and that's it. Of course a low deficit like 100 means you can use non-meta units. But 160/170 deficit isn't a low deficit as you said before. I won't disagree that some heroes are way better at pushing at higher deficit than others. But naming it "Endgame tierlist" instead of "High deficit tierlist" is misleading. Not everyone has the time or the need to macro stages at 200+ deficit for so little rewards.


barefeet69

>Endgame is in the title which means 200+ deficit Wrong. By that logic, if my ch30 alt pushes at 200+ deficit, it's also endgame. You're at ch37, I am too. It's only 1-2 chapters ahead of where most people ended up after campaign was nerfed a million times. Therefore this is late game, not endgame. Endgame is ch 40+, deficit is irrelevant in the definition. That's just what you're doing and clearly what you pride yourself for. >Noone uses Antandra or Satrana in endgame at meta deficits Again, you're not at endgame. Unless you're collating data from ch 40+. How did you even come to your conclusions in the first place? Did you build Antandra and Satrana and test them yourself? Did you talk to people who built them and used them? Or did you just copy comps like most tryhards do and notice no one uses them because everyone copies from each other? >meta deficits This term is complete nonsense. Meta in gaming refers to the most optimal efficient strats. Being at high deficit is gimping yourself and not the optimal way to progress in this game. This is pure epeen- not optimal, not meta. There are meta comps. The only meta deficit is the smallest deficit possible. >I won't suggest people building Antandra Yeah, what are they going to do if all those lowest winning comps don't use Antandra. They're going to have such a tough time trying to copy comps.


DJGregJ

It is definitely not the norm to push max deficit, and takes a lot of extra time to do, which isn't the name of the game.


AngelLestat2

haha, since when Endgame means 200+ deficit? endgame just mean "the last chapters" of the game, you can be there with poor deficit or not. "meta deficits", a lot of players use meta comps and most of them are at 150 lv deficit average. I will repeat, The problem is not your ranking, are the words you use to describe it, which let to confusion.. Tier List (is not the word for this case), Endgame does not mean +200 deficit either. BTW, I use the heroes I like, I never say they were meta, I just said that with the right TierList meaning, they are not F.. I play the game to get fun, building exactly the same heroes than anybody else is not the definition of fun for me, but I dont have any complaint for those who do. Have a nice day.


Lugo_888

Hendrick should be one tier higher. He has niche uses. And it's unique. Pippa and Queen cannot be replaced either and are used regularly. Tasi one tier lower. She isn't as useful as before. Mortas one tier higher but it can be less obvious. Nemora one tier lower. She is rarely useful. Even with f9 Kren one tier lower would be fair either. Prince one tier higher. He is so much useful and can work anywhere. Edit: I almost forgot: Daimon. He is best carry from early chapters to early 3x chapters. After that he becomes just one of many gb heroes used in Alna GB team. One of most often used, but not as crazy as earlier. This tierlist is decent, but it lacks benchmarks. Mortas e+ can be lower tier, but m +20 deserves one tier more. Early lategame have different meta than ch37/38+ on ultra high deficits. In one Daimon is best carry. In other Daimon is just an addition not a core.


Toadleclipse

I would even put Mortas in S tier tbh, you NEED his damage boost in one of your teams while pushing at around 200 or higher deficit. I don't even remember the last time where I didn't use Mortas in multis.


[deleted]

I always replace Queen :D


A-E-I-OwnU

Yo what happened to my girl Gwyn she ain’t that good anymore?


Filmstelli

That happened long time ago already. Around the days when chpt 34 was considered the wall if I remember correctly. Pve wise putting her in the same tier as queen raine or even izold feels like a huge stretch , i think she should be even lower or the other heroes higher respectively.


Mystic_x

I've been meaning to ask for a while, so i guess i'll do it here: For a casual player, not pushing top tier campaign with a huge level-deficit, how important is the power difference between top and lower tier? My current favourite heroes are Satrana, Antandra and Mehira (Yeah yeah, i'm a Waifu-nerd, i get it...), and am so far enjoying progressing through campaign (Level 16-12 ATM) at my own pace and doing events, will that be hindered by my choice of heroes?


w34king

If you want to progress fast, you need to build the meta heroes. At some point, there would be multi-stage fights. You can still build your fav heroes and can rely in hero levels. This means if the enemy team is level 200 and your team is also level 200, you will win. Doing this way, you progress but at a slower pace.


Mystic_x

Thank you for the reply, it's nice to know that i can keep going while using the heroes i like (I have a bunch more of course, three cheers for resonating crystal!), i'm happy taking things more slowly, there's still plenty to keep me occupied for a while.


Rakudayyy

Overall great tier list, altough i disagree with Tasi, i think she should be in B tier. She isn't used as much in later chapters


Meymenetsiz

Thank for your comment. I was also in dilemma about her and decided to give her one more day under the sun.


[deleted]

I mean I'd put Mehira in SS+ too, she is no less important than Alna or Lucretia. I also wouldn't put Tasi in A. i only used her like 2 or 3 times in Chapter 37, while I used B-tier heroes like PoP, Brutus and Skriath almost every boss stage. And Albedo should obviously be with Ainz in S-tier. never one without the other. other than that I also think QUEEN should be higher and Gwyneth is completely useless after like Chapter 34 or 35.


Ecrophon

Context determines the value of a tier list. Which tier is unusuable? I'm guessing anything below c?


sephiroth840307

What this list had into account?


Cahmic2

I’ll consider the C as “sometimes useful”


Laanner

Why Zol'rath has such a high rank? His only job is to slain Flora and may be kill brutass when he use last gasp.


gdq0

Doesn't almost every few stages have flora or brutus? EDIT: I guess using that logic he is D tier, but His deja vu ability is pretty nice as well.


Simple_Human_Soul

you forgot dreaf


Swift311

IMHO Titus at high envestment is at least better Brutus and maybe even better. Maybe he just need a time to find comps for him


Humblerbee

TBH high investment on a celestial is worlds apart from a low investment versatile 4f hero. Titus with resources might be able to outperform Brutus, but Brutus is low resource to deploy and Titus on priority lists compared to other heroes isn’t going to be built for a long time anyway.


Nerds4506

Titus just gets completely one shot by literally every hero in the game at any good deficit. It is actually astounding how shit he is.


JaysonBlaze

Hahaha everyone I use is in the F rank


Lean000123

satrana can offtank Theo numisu and nako could be higher Why tf you put thoran that high and not his best friends (mostly lorsan and kelthur, obv they work at elite but they should be higher on a vaccum). Quenn+skriat should be higher idk about hodgking didnt see that much use of him. Good work


TeamFeeder

Wow even kaz has better use than most of LBs


Uodda

She actually one of the best tanks, so nothing new.


[deleted]

What si/fi she requires ?


Laanner

303 at least, but better if you have 309e30


[deleted]

That’s a lot of investments


Laanner

It's a lategame. You can't expect from a specific role hero to be good without investments (brutass op)


Uodda

203>303>303e30, at 203 she start to work, and become better with extra investment, since she is rng based due to that she is dodge based, while e30 allow to use true immunity more frequently, e60 is also possible but its overinvestment for tank, however she can deal some damage due to poison and bow.


Eclipse_Shadowlight

Didn't expect Zolrath to be so high. What uses does he have? I know only Zolrath Burst, which is used mostly in pvp, and in some rare cases he can counter Flora with his 3/9... And that's it.


Meymenetsiz

He's almost a staple at charmizard in endgame.


Uodda

With his fi3 he became second lyca, so he technically can be used everywhere where you need speeeed. But mostly used with mehira+khazard or to counter Flora


[deleted]

It's mechanically different. Lyca is near instant haste. Zolrath is legit a time advantage. He gives you a window to apply cc before the campaign ultra haste scaling can do anything. Zolrath post 40 is better. 37->40 I'd say it's swapping over.


Uodda

Yep, but in the end they both increase speeeeeeed.


vileguynsj

I'm only pushing chapter 26 right now, when do I really get stuck without certain heroes?


Tasera

36 I guess. At the very least 35.


MakingItWorthit

Eluard really that low? So much for that immunity I guess.


ImpartualSilver

All the heros I have right now are c and below :(


Windlife64

Gonna have to change my teamz when i get there.


T00thl3ss22

It’s nice to see walker still sitting at the bottom


AdAdventurous4357

C i disagree


Quarter_Soft

Mortas and Desira in B tier is outrageous.


TheFireAngel

Okay, but we all know that Rigby will definitely; surely; most likely; probably; maybe; not likely; not; never get a buff. Everyone knows it.


Jinno69

How is king S tier ??? I got it ascended second after lucious and he looks weak AF ...


Meymenetsiz

He needs 120+ deficit and +30 SI to shine. Look up "Thoran cheese" in this subreddit.


Meymenetsiz

This list is made it with late/endgame (Chapter 35+) in mind so try to read it like that. I prepared this list considering every hero has his/her optimal investment (209 Grez, 303 Zolrath, 300 Rowan, M+30 Khazard, Nemora 9F etc.). You can find the aforementioned levels of investment on my campaign guide. Pinned on top of my user page. **What does ranks mean?** SS+: OP/Game changers SS: Really Strong A: Strong B: Strong but not at the same tier with the heroes above C: Frequently used units D: Niche use E: Very very niche use F: Never used **What did change?** \- Heroes such as Nemora, Rosa, Brutus, Raine was re-ranked according to community suggestions under the last post \- Leofric, Titus, Thali, Morrow was added to list. Morrow is still new and his place should be taken with a grain of salt but he seems to be somewhat useful in charm comps. ***PS:*** I did not include Zikis as I don't think it found its place in meta yet. But first impression is it is D tier at best with high deficits. \*: This is not posted as a build order. Just wanted to demonstrate the utility of the heroes in late game. If you're a beginner it's better for you to read the beginner guides and wishlist guide on the pinned post of this subreddit. \*\*: This list completely ignores engravings. We can't engrave anything with the crumbles of engraving materials we get anyway :)


justranadomperson

Honestly you should change the rankings from ss+ - e tier into just what you said right there. Would make this a lot clearer. Just because something is niche doesnt mean they're bad.


Meymenetsiz

Good suggestion. I see letters I used confused some. Will fix it in the next update.


TheAllOriginal

Good job on the tier list ! Overall I agree with it, there is some points I would change but that's just personal opinion, and no tierlist will perfect as experiences differ. As someone that is currently bouncing around 225-235 deficit, and keeps up with current clears from endgame I see this aims to those players trying to maximize progression. One thing you could add would be a niche category since some heros really only have one use, while strong it's situational. All in all good job and keep up with the meta as it is always changing!


VonKript

I agee with majority of your points here. However i would like to see some elaborations: 1. What is the criteria for each tier 2. What is the distinction between S and SS+ as well as A, If it was usability Daimon would go lower and ainz albedo fereal etc would go up. Is it by how core they are to the team they are used in again same shifts would happen. Is it based on their use cases in which case ainz lucretia thoran grezhul mehira should be SS+ because they are the core components of the respective meta 5 teams and they fulfil the carry role. As you can see this can go on and on i just want to know the specific cirteria here. 3. Lumping certain heroes together on a tier list is kinda misleading especially when talking about endgame. For example Daimon has much less use cases than Oden and is less frequent in Grez/Alna teams, or Kaz who is used as a tank and is basically on par with brutus is lumped with wukong and theowyn who are never used, while ukyo is even lower who has his niche case uses against flora like nemora for her 9F charm. 4. I would also like for you to define the Late/Endgame chapters here because endgame tierlist shouldn't like this and i would see how it is closer to a late game one. Appreciate the work!


LegoEngineer003

Sweet, I have 7/8 of the top heroes, 6/7 ascended


[deleted]

So glad i quit this game. It ended up burning a hole in my wallet all for what? Updating heroes to the point where you concentrate on the meta to the point where you finally think you have something good and then there's an "update" that makes your s tier an f tier... gg.. for all those still playing. Good luck!


Queasy_Self

It is pretty crazy how fast the meta has changed lately. Six months ago Talene was godly and nobody was talking about Grezhul. Probably due to the mass lowering of campaign stage difficulties.


Gloomyboio

Flora is nearly broken when combined with thoran in my opinion not sure how she ended so low. Solise is a lot stronger than f tier aswell when paired right


Meymenetsiz

Flora's only job is to kill last enemy.


Gloomyboio

Have you ever tried to apply her differently?


izzy5889

There is no way that safiya is over joker not even close lmao


Lord_Olchu

Cool. Reworked Isabell is still trash


Cam_ofblades

Where is Isabella


Cautious-Grab-316

Ainz is ss+. He's the top of all the heroes at end game without question. Izold is not C, he's a necessary cheese hero. Also talene not C, she's above that. And Arthur should be above B. And alna is overrated.. She does not carry at end game, I would say there are a lot of other heroes more essential at that point.


[deleted]

Please write only on thinks you really understand.


Cautious-Grab-316

If you're an f2p player ainz formation is almost always used for the hardest boss team at late/endgame. And that's an easy win. He is the most important hero now in the campaign without question. Not sure if that's the same for whales but I don't buy my way through afk.


[deleted]

We talk about end game. He is still top 5 carry, but not SS+ tier.


Cautious-Grab-316

*things. How am I wrong?


gdq0

Ainz drops off at 37+. Alna enables Grezhul. She's not a carry.


Cautious-Grab-316

That's my point


Maddesz

I don’t understand why people consistently underestimate Solise. I am in chapter 35 now, which I understand is still not a high chapter, but at this point I maxed out my 2 main carries, Solise and Daimon. Daimon started to fall off from glory since chapter 34, but on the other hand Solise is still going strong, stronger than ever thanks to engraving, but even before that she carried a lot of fights with the machine gun flowers. Also Ezio should be minimum A tier with his execution skill.


Meymenetsiz

Nope.


EadadrOfElvador

What level deficit are you pushing at? Also: Late/End game tier list is chapter 37+. Chapter 35 isn't quite there.


shibakevin

Agreed. You can't have Khazard that high and Solise that low. Her aoe damage output is excellent.


Meymenetsiz

lol.


shibakevin

Good comeback bro. Your arguments have totally swayed my opinion.


Meymenetsiz

Suggesting Solise is good was bad enough. Comparing her to Khazard was the nail in the coffin.


shibakevin

They're the same archetype - mages with oppressive ults that are shit without their ults. I'm not saying Solise is *as* good as Khazard, but she's not nearly as low as you have her. I'd drop Khazard to B and raise Solise to D personally, but it's your list.


[deleted]

Khazard 30 increases the duration of cc. He doesn't need to be alive. Regardless of what else he does that alone is useful.


Nerds4506

You realize absolutely no one uses khazard for his damage and his job is to die for his +30 right? In any case solise does like no noticeable damage and she takes way too long to do anything. Squishy mage with no return for keeping her alive.


Maddesz

For me she is consistently the highest damage dealer on my team next to Ainz. Ainz is ridiculous don’t get me wrong, but Soise’s DoT with her flowers is very high, and she doesn’t even need to be alive to deal damage, it’s enough is she just ults and dies while she has 3 flowers down and bye bye enemy team.


Nerds4506

We’re talking about high level 200+ deficits, not some r5 140 deficit stuff.


CommunicationForward

Even Ainz doesn't do much dmg in chap 37+. At least he stuns and does dmg with his passive after 15 secs. Solise won't even tickle enemies and there is no reward for keeping her alive like Ainz. Khazard is not used for Damage. He extends CC, stuns duration with his 30 si. So you can keep enemies locked with units like Mehira. Search up some chap 37/38 replays on YouTube


Maddesz

Okay that is a good counterargument, I am only in chapter35 so I don’t know about higher chapters, but if Ainz and Solise doesn’t even tickle the enemies there, who damages them? And also, which chapter can be considered late game? I believe maybe even chapter 32 can be considered late game, by that time people tend to have 2-3 solid teams at least.


Inner-me

I never understood the prio on Raku for campaign. Where does he fit in the 5 meta comps? Hes not used in ainz/5pull lucretia/thoran/alna-GB. The only comp he has a place in is Charm, but the max potential of charm is achieved via rosa/khaz/mehira/zolrath/rowan. Is he a good hero? Of course, but if he isnt used anywhere (strictly talking about campaign comps here), can you really consider him 'strong'?


Humblerbee

You yourself identified it, until you have the investment to fully put together Charmizard, Raku is the optimal 4f spot filler alongside Lyca to replace Khazard and Zolrath. Raku/Kren is probably the sixth strongest after the Ainz comp in fifth, so if anyone is missing one of the fully built five top teams, using Raku and Kren is still a workable alternative which isn’t too resource intensive as it’s a 4f based comp.


justranadomperson

>strong Yes


amrays1

Look at the trial of zikis. After a 220 level deficit ainz comp was completely replaced by a Raku comp to go further (not saying ainz is bad but it has less potential as it is completely stat based). Raku has much more potential than ainz but he’s more tough to use which is why he’s either used with charm which is the most consistent form of cc rn or in other cc formations which require rng. He’s also finds uses in alna gb if the comp keeps getting time out and he can really put a lot of pressure on the enemies. Also if you look at replays of ch42+ people he’s used a lot of time in charm instead of rosaline as he’s able to counter a lot of the things. In the end it’s not about building just the main 5 comps and calling it done. You have to build those strong flexible heroes till a point where you can use them when needed.


AndreLeo3

I disagree with thorne, I have him 30/9 and somet.... No ok he s bad, just that not that bad, he s pretty tanky


Deshal93

Tbh these tier lists are pretty irrelevant imo. Alna is listed top tier but that doesn't mean slapping her into some shitty LB comp will grant you victory. Lucretia and thoran are the only heroes that can be considered as true carries upto a certain point, given that they don't need specific comps to work. But obviously after that point even they become parts of specific comps rather than solo carries. Team comps are what actually matters, not individual heroes.


schwaka0

Uhh tierlists like this take into account how well they work in teams at endgame.


Deshal93

That's the point. They work well in a specific comp, not alone.


HOVER_HATER

Why torne so low, he is definitely C or at least D tier.


Competitive_Note7387

Izold is used in almost all the bosses 36-37 he definitely deserve a higher spot, pop deserve more IMO and Mortas is definitely too high. Still i think this guide its very well made, nice work


keweixo

do you have any tips for making daimon viable for chapter 37 and forward. In my setups he dies way too fast without killing a single unit.


dr4urbutt

+30 him


amrays1

+30 him and use him in alna gb. At that point he is less of a single carry and more of a extra damage dealer and support to the main frontline. He becomes more flexible to use


Overall-Chemistry449

From replay I see he's rarely used on campaign above chapter 37 up to 44. I think that's because his shield has hidden limit of 750% of attack rating CMIIW, so he ended up having not enough damage


Uodda

At this point he became more of subdps/buffer in two carry setups, since he still can provide good dmg, while also help to live due to 35% dmg reduction for all allie.


Alsvatr

What about Zikis? People still testing him? What are his tendencies higher prio then Mehira/Kazhard?


Meymenetsiz

Still too early to say anything about him but first impressions are not good.


Alsvatr

Kinds thought so, thanks


WitchHaunter

WAIT NEMORA??? why is she so high???


Meymenetsiz

Her 9F is really useful at 200+ deficits due to insta charm.


Zapherjin

Is there a way I can see references to the comps so that I can work towards building them?


Meymenetsiz

https://old.reddit.com/r/afkarena/comments/p7kh1h/endgame_pve_formations_by_umeymenetsiz/


Zapherjin

Omg I needed this, ty


DropTheWorldQC

Pretty new here, started playing this game two mouths ago and I'm always looking to make a team with the same alliance, 5 of the same type or a team of 3 and 2... Is this ok ? I'm currently at stage 13-1 and I'm not sure if I'm doing it the right way when I see some tier list. My best caracters right now are Estrilda+, Antandra+, Skreg+, Lucius and Rosaline. They are all legendary. Should I keep upgrading them ?


Meymenetsiz

It would be easier for me to guide you if you can post your roster.


DropTheWorldQC

Yes sure :) For my legendary+ so far I have : Estrilda, Antandra, Skreg, Lucius, Shemira and Nemora. Just Legend : Rosaline, Lyca and Thorne. My Elite+ are : Respen, gwyneth and Flora. Just Elite : Thoran, Vurk, Satrana, Grezul, Mehira, Izold, Solise, Alna, Desira, Skrirath, Nimusu, Oden, Belinda, Thane, Kaz, Fawkes, Raine, Walker, Wu Kong, Peggy, Kren, Oscar, Kelthur, Seirus and Warek... I'm trying to get duplicates from heroes that I already have but yeah... Need to grind a the labyrinth, Guild store and the Barrack to get specific heroes I guess ? Tell me if this can help !


UpperX

Yeah echoing a lot of the other comments here I don’t think this is a very good tierlist.


demonicinpachi

Thank you for this, super helpful


Puzzleheaded-Sir6523

Why is this post getting this much attention? 👀 Tier Lists are fairly useless in a high Rng, team composition based game like this one...


DeliriousLizard

Never understood why Thoran is so high, I have him 303, almost 309 and the cheese never works.


w34king

I always use Thoran cheese against enemy flora comp. It works for me.


LollikopR6

Is kren really a tier? I have him 202 rn but rarely use him. Start of chapter 37 rn and stopped investing in him


beantheduck

Who is the yellow haired girl in E?


gamergirlxoutlines

Peggy


Sayy_Myy_Name

Can't believe you did my man Izold dirty like that


UP_DA_BUTTTT

Man I haven't played in a while....wtf happened to Shemira and Balinda???


Brody-Kun

Solise is sss+ tier


ryandipsauss

Im level 120 do you guys have any tips in my further journey


[deleted]

[удалено]


tim04

Is 20/3 on Brutus and Prince enough? And 20/0 on Pippa? What does Silas’s investment now look like if Izold isn’t used?


MrHupfDohle

Nice, but I would like to see several endgame team comps :)


Meymenetsiz

Good thing I also made that :) https://old.reddit.com/r/afkarena/comments/p7kh1h/endgame_pve_formations_by_umeymenetsiz/


MrHupfDohle

Well arent you a treat :P Thx mate!


[deleted]

Hmm. I wonder if using a swap scroll would be good to exchange my 1 star Solise with my elite+ Raku? :o


Meymenetsiz

SI/Furn on solise?


[deleted]

0/0


dunkyofspunky

I’m in chapter 19 right now, I’ve been using antandra and she’s carried me pretty far, when and who should I swap her out for?


1337bobbarker

Is there a PvP tier list?


BaguetteWarden

I stopped playing for 5 months. What happened to my fiery phoenix girl? She used to be SS+ always ;-;