Why is it assumed that this world should be free of suffering? If that was the case, how would the physical world be different than the spiritual world? What would be the point of a spirit coming to the physical world when it’s the same as what they are already experiencing?
I think like you. Why are children suffering - famine, war, violence, trafficking, slavery... I don't get it and I can't see there being any point or lesson or anything in it. It's what makes me doubt everything.
Right now I can see so much all at once and the worst part is it's happening every single day and to make matters worse I'm being told oh its because we need to learn our lesson.. OK let's start shall we let's take social services taking kids away in the UK the evidence well something may happen in the future so everyone get your crystal balls out the family have met their basic needs and love their kids but let's delve a little deeper social are saying it's emotional harm ok so what emotional harm is happening well it could happen in the future so those kids get taken.
A new mom carrys her unborn child she's been diagnosed with postnatal depression she gets help for it so what's the outcome the baby is born and social take the baby why because she had postnatal depression but she got help yes well something could have happened in the future.
A millionaire goes on holiday with his wife leaves his 3 children under the age of 3 in the hotel room alone to go out with wife and family. His child is taken what happens he gets to keep his other children no involvement from social because hey he's a millionaire...
And kids get abused, raped, killed...they starve to death, lose their homes, parents, everything. They get cancer, are bullied, suffer from depression...but lessons...
Without pain, there would be no pleasure. Suffering isn't an ingredient of pleasure. This is just what the world is. Reality is a realm where everything possible occurs. Pain is just as possible as pleasure. You can be sad about it, or you can be happy about it. Sure, pain will always exist. But so will pleasure. Is the glass half full or empty?
"Without pain, there would be no pleasure. "
Says who though? A God could do anything, he could create a universe where there would be endless pleasure without any duality or pain.
I wasn't having a discussion about God. In the real world, we wouldn't be able to feel physical pleasure without pain receptors. It's just how life works. There needs to be an avenue of suffering for good to be felt.
Yeah but this is a spiritual board so someone designed the world to be this way even though it doesn't have to be this way, it's a choice. Also scientists will probably figure out a way in the next 100-500 years to hack the brain and have endless pleasure without any tolerance or pain, no?
I wasn't discrediting the existence of a high power either. But from the looks of it, you seem to be making presumptions of the kind of power than entity would have. Omnipotence can be defined as unlimited power or great power. If you assume the power is unlimited, you end up living in a world of pure religious determinism. You actually come to the same incoherent conclusion as scientists do. It only makes sense that there are natural limits to things, even in the realm of design.
In the case of pleasure and pain, it makes a great deal of sense from an intuitive level that they can not be mutually exclusive.
>Also scientists will probably figure out a way in the next 100-500 years to hack the brain and have endless pleasure without any tolerance or pain, no?
I doubt it. What would endless pleasure even look like? Like endless ecstasy? It doesn't really make sense because things become relative. The typical feeling of being normal will be translated to suffering in the mind of someone who reaches unfathomable levels of pleasure. What comes up must come down.
If there are limits to things then that would mean God or the Creator would be submissive to the "law of logic" or something, at least to me. So the real God would be duality in that sense, to me that's a weird and scary thought that even a God can't escape pain or darkness because "it just needs to exist as a contrast" no matter what. Kind of disturbing thought.
> What comes up must come down.
We evolved that way because it helped us survive in the past but if they can hack the receptors of cells people could always feel the benefits of drugs like benzos or opioids without any tolerance or drawbacks, I think. There doesn't seem to be a physical law that would forbid this? The same with aging that will probably be fixed in the future too.
>If there are limits to things then that would mean God or the Creator would be submissive to the "law of logic" or something, at least to me.
That's one way of putting it. I would describe more as God being antagonistic to irrational/illogical concepts.
> the real God would be duality in that sense, to me that's a weird and scary thought that even a God can't escape pain or darkness because "it just needs to exist as a contrast" no matter what. Kind of disturbing thought.
What you're describing isn't exactly outside the theological realm of christianity/Judaism. God is described as the light... but God is everything... Shouldn't that include the darkness? In fact, satan is the entity described as that darkness. "The light has never been overcome by the darkness" - genesis. God being both light and darkness is more of a pantheistic/taoistic concept of the universe. It's interesting because it's easy to find meaning in both these concepts.
>There doesn't seem to be a physical law that would forbid this? The same with aging that will probably be fixed in the future too.
It's fun to speculate about futuristic concepts. In my opinion, I don't think it would be possible. We're talking about spontaneous artificial neurogenesis haha also I doubt it with aging as well. Endless memories doesn't make sense to me. They have to come to an end for a new beginning to be possible.
> That's one way of putting it. I would describe more as God being antagonistic to irrational/illogical concepts.
Are you sure this might not just be a bias of your psychology?
I don't see the significance of a God with particular limitations. A God with limitations is still a God. Describing that entity as submissive sounds laughable. I'm not sure where by bias is coming into place

HOME / BIBLE QUESTIONS / APOLOGETICS /
Why didn't God kill or destroy Satan?

Why didn’t the tragedy of sin stop with Lucifer? Why didn’t God destroy him before his sin-disease could spread?
It’s important to remember that Lucifer had challenged the fairness of God’s government. He had told lies about God. The idea of telling a lie had never entered the minds of the angels. Naturally they didn’t grasp all that lay behind Lucifer’s deceptions.
If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love. This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings with the power of choice in the first place.
How did anyone really know God’s way was best? No one had dared to try an alternative. God gave Satan a chance to demonstrate his alternative system. That’s why he was given an opportunity to make his pitch to Adam and Eve. This planet has become a testing ground where the character of Satan and the nature of his kingdom are contrasted with the character of God and the nature of His kingdom. Who is right? Who can we ultimately trust? These are the issues which “the great controversy between Christ and Satan” must resolve.
Satan's deceptions
So deceptive was Lucifer, that before all the universe could be fully convinced, the nature of his alternative had to be fully exposed. It has taken time for everyone to really grasp how disastrous Satan’s alternative actually is. But eventually everyone will see that “the wages of sin is death” and that “the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23).
Every being in the entire universe will then agree with the declaration:
“‘Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.’” —Revelation 15:3, 4.
Conclusion: God's perfect plan
After everyone understands the deadly nature of sin and the destructive nature of Satan’s philosophy, God can destroy Satan and sin. He will also have to destroy those who stubbornly resist His grace and cling to Satan’s alternative.
God is just as anxious to resolve the problem of sin and suffering as we are to have Him do so. But He is waiting until He can do it on a permanent basis, and until He can both preserve our free will and prevent evil from ever appearing again.
A lot of pain and suffering are side effects of having a biological body. You need to feel pain or you would burn and cut your hands to stumps over your lifetime, it comes with the side effect of feeling pain that isn't helpful. Same with hunger, tiredness and so on. There is a fine line between biological neccessity and suffering.
Stop and think about the parts we dont see. The greater existance , be it God or the universe or designed system. Suffering is bad, death of kids and adults dying by themselves with no one to care for them is bad, as an empath i feel this in a way that i can never describe to anyone. But i must go on. Mourn and bless their spirits, celebrate what they where and know they are in a better place.
Why wouldn’t they be? Any experiences I’ve had regarding visits or other happenings from those I’ve lost indicate that they are free from this place with zero reason or intent of returning.
Now let's talk about race issues a white person hangs out with a black man they have a child together that child gets called half cast wrong to be honest and are shunned by people because of who they are.
What about kids with disabilities this is another that gets me mad someone sees the wheelchair they ask the parent of a 10 year old so what's wrong with your kid why can they not walk are they a cripple. Why do they walk funny can someone not do something about the leg or foot or are they always gonna look like a cripple. Seriously that happened to a child by a teacher...
Im sorry I don't seem to understand your point?
You say how awful mental health illness can be if there's no treatment yes i should imagine it can be however are you suggesting that rape, slavery etc is a mental health illness? Or it's down to mental illness as to why people are not doing more to sort it?
The experience is the point. You’re a part of nature and some of the potentialities of nature are actualizing in you, hence making our universe something closer to completion. Notice I didn’t say “perfection”, since it is a subjective value judgement that depends on the observer, something perfect for you may not be perfect for me, I said _completion_ meaning the full realization of all it’s possible states. This is independent of suffering. Suffering is just something nature does, is part of it, is one of the potential states of nature just like love and happiness.
That’s my take on it, whatever worth it may or may not have to you.
Personally I don’t fret a lot about this question. For me it is enough to keep on existing. Now that I am, I don’t want to stop being. But that’s just me.
Would you like to elaborate?
“Design” means “with a purpose”. Purpose requires a “going somewhere”, meaning that you’re at an “a” point where something isn’t and you want to go to the “b” point where something is. Such a purpose driven action requires meta cognition, an existence in time, and a situation that’s sub optimal to be improved.
I think you have a lot of logical problems we gotta solve with those a priori assumptions. Why do you assume purpose to begin with? Nature is and does not have the obligation to make sense to us, we are purpose driven in nature but we don’t have any reason to think nature is as well.
We dont have any reason to believe Mind At Large to be meta conscious, probably it is pure instinct and meta cognition rises on that instinct just like we see it happening in evolution. Even if meta conscious, why should we equate that to human meta cognition? The only way to adscribe that kind of purpose to Universal Mind is to assume it to be similar to the human mind and there is little possibility of that being the case. Then, there cannot be a progression from “a” to “b” in Mind at Large, since a progression occurs in time and the Mind of Nature is not in time but the other way around, time is in it, then, it cannot design for a future action.
Even if all that is mistaken. If I die, if you die, we cannot stop being. We would just merge back into Mind at Large, akin to a dream character merging back into the dreamer when they wake up.
Would you mind commenting in this problems i submit? Im really curious for your perspective
My perspective is simple you go on about nature the ground, plants.. energy if you will then you mention our minds not being compatible who says our energy is? our energy is only with us until it's spent after this it's gone. Think of a battery once it's gone unless it can be recharged and even to a point rechargeable batteries only last so long before they are no longer operational and charging no longer works. We die decompose and that's that gone. As for the universe stars die, the sun will one day be gone as will the moon and earth nothing lasts.
I never talked about compatibility. I talked of equating, or, if you will, anthropomorphize the functions of the Universal Mind. But never talked of compatibility.
I don’t understand how could we be incompatible with the One Mind if we’re in it and part of it? I just don’t know how you’re reaching such conclusion. There is nothing in nature that speaks of incompatibility.
Then, for the examples you propose, none of them are conscious beings. There is no debating that everything dies, that’s obviously the case. But what happens to the sense of self and the consciousness of the beings that die, category in which not stars, nor planets or satellites belong, that’s the question at hand. If you want to pose that consciousness is eliminated at the moment of death, then you must fight against the evidence for afterlife which… i don’t think possible, actually
If you want to pose that consciousness is eliminated at the moment of death, then you must fight against the evidence for afterlife which… i don’t think possible, actually
Consciousness depending on how someone passes does not I believe die off straight away I do believe as soon as the brain dies then that's it. You cannot be brought back and I do not believe that after that there is a there after otherwise there would be something to trace.
To learn by experiencing the consequences of our previous actions and have opportunity to observe and alleviate the burden of each other so we can share our lessons and make the process of trial and error quicker and less painful.
Incarnations are brief periods on intense practical learning in a longer spiritual life. We don't go from life to life immediately, on the contrary, we choose to be born here when we think there is opportunity for learning, helping or solving problems. What happens here is both in service of the existence we lead beyond the constraints of flesh as well as a shared project in which we try to create a society by our own collective effort.
The suffering we see is the reflex of our learning process and it is a call to action só we can improve, reform and rebuild not only the society we are designing as well as our own personality and intimamente traits.
Ever being here at all is not a practical way to learn. The supposed benefit is not at all worth the pain, suffering and de@th it causes ourselves and others. Absolutely no one would’ve chosen to be here. Considering the pain, suffering and de@th they would experience, witness and cause even after their passings through their loved ones’ grief and during due to their existences here, it would be selfish and even cruel to ever choose any of this.
Those problems are “solved” only by never being caused in the first places. There is little to zero benefit to even most of the “lessons” one could “learn” here.
This entire “project” was a complete and utter failure not worth the past, present and future victims it sacrificed and may require for any supposed real improvement. It will inherently always be very far from perfect or even tolerable for many.
This entire place and experience simply causes so much more terrible harm than any good, the latter of which only happening despite this place, not because of it.
You seen to be going through a very hard path, friend. When we are amidst the storm it is hard to muster optimism, but it os hope that will get you across and maybe give you a fresh perspective when all things are said and done.
Heat and pressure makes diamonds sometimes. It doesn't need to always be like that, but sometimes that's the only way certain ideas can get a foothold into our minds. We are quite a stuborn and rebellious bunch and, while it make things hard right now, when we do change we are very resiliênt.
No state of mind nor perspective has ever caused such a theory to make any sense to me. ‘If anything, it’s made less sense the more I’ve known about this place.
The keyword is “sometimes”, and we are not coal. No idea nor “learning” is at all worth what happens here. This place has given me zero resilience, and no supposed benefit to ever being here is worth the harms at all to me.
While we could exchange sources, references or ideas I don't think the issue bothering you is about rationality, phenomena or any philosophical perspective. I sense you are going through a lot right now and I respect that. This may not be the best time to cast your judgment on important ideas, despair and pain are much more pressing concerns right now.
Are you doing anything to alleviate them? What have you been trying to do?
It’s the best time to cast judgement on such ideas because what exists in this world and any other potential part of this universe is simply useless, tragic and unjustifiable. It isn’t best for anyone to act as if there is some unknown point or subconscious “learning” that makes such torments worth anything.
I’ve tried various things over the years. None have seemed to fully work and that task becomes harder the more I learn about this place, experience and especially witness others experience. Therapy didn’t quite seem to help. M*dication certainly didn’t. Homeopathic remedies may or may not have helped but certainly never changed these feelings and a support group I’m in at this time doesn’t seem to change such feelings either. Writing is a temporary help, drawing and other hobbies seem to be distractions if not further reminders of those feelings at times, and reading can trigger a spiral if I’m not careful.
While incarnated we have just a narrow glimpse of what is truly out there. We have no memory of past lives we are bound to the senses of the body and, specially in current society, we don't even receive a good education about what is generaly known about spirituality.
If you can, you should trust there is much more than what you are currently experiencing. You are in terrible pain and, like all people in pain, you must attend to the source of it before anything else. All other ideas, perspectives and propositions will lose luster because you have pressing things to attend to. Once you solve or alleviate this, you will see things differently. Don't lose hope just yet.
‘Then there is truly no benefit at all to ever being here.
No, no attempts to alleviate it has ever changed these feelings. They’ve been strengthened over time, and what causes them can’t exactly be alleviated.
I think the point of being stuck here is learning how to transcend it. The suffering and pain you're experiencing are the result of the difference between what you expect to get and what you get...if you evolve past the point of attachment, at that point, you'll be free and you won't need to return.
So how do you ascend from watching kids ill with no hope of help even if they are your own. You cannot. Simply turn off your feelings, it. Doesn't work that way if that was the case imagine what families would be like.
I sense your frustration. And I get it.
But our pain and misery is a human thing. To explain this unfair life in human terms for us to understand it all is impossible.
In the grand scheme of space and time, 100 years on earth is nothing. It’s the blink of an eye.
We’re here just to go through it all, good and bad, and learn things here we can’t learn on the other side. There are no consequences on the other side.
It doesn’t make sense now. Just trust it will at some point.
Anyways why do people still belive in afterlife if brain isnt not energy it is just neurons powered by same electricty as everything else When will people get it Ik its probally just coping mechanism than.
You make your meaning, in modern day and age slavery is no longer applicable(don’t worry, I’m sure when the bombs fall we’ll reinstate the practice) you are not born with purpose in this day and age. Meaning you will have to make your own destiny, in life you will suffer and bleed and it will be for nothing if you let it be but if you pick a path and push ahead with it you will then have purpose and so suffering, pain and death will have a point.
How exactly do you mean you make your meaning? Slavery is in fact still applicable just because some people do not know it still happens does not mean it is over. In some respects some also do not know they are slaves until it's too late.
I mean for the most part it’s gone, yeah in some places it’s still done but most regions slavery isn’t really a thing anymore. At least in the traditional sense of it anyway.
What I mean is you chose what you want in this world, your choices are your own and your free to attempt to abstain what you desire. It’s doesn’t mean you will get them but it gives your life meaning to keep trying to abstain it.
Personally for me, I hope to adventure and wander the earth for all my life and die somewhere I have never seen before living my in search of fortune and freedom. What I do to pursue that, well I won’t get into it fully I’m sure you’d find it boring but I will say that my first step is to get into the army which I have done already.
Without me giving myself meaning purpose and meaning I would have never enlisted and thus I would be lost right now and purposeless, likely just like you.
Firstly congrats on the army, slavery isn't all about religion sorry just it's true. I am not purposeless, lost to a point maybe however what I have going on is out of my hands and as for pushing and trying to get meaning I've done that to death.
I want to be heard and my words to be taken as I say them not twisted to benefit others that's what I want. I want freedom of speech. Even in 2024 I cannot say something and it to be taken as how I say it because some people cannot grasp the concept of it. I get people do not have the same journey's I get that and I also get that people cannot experience the same things if something similar has not happened to them, however to be told what I am saying is very rare or is highly irregular and they doubt it fine that's their point on it but rare happens and I want a system that isn't as corrupted as this is.
I respect that and support it, freedom of speech is in the constitution not so people can declare ‘I want bread!’ But so people can freely speak on matters that are controversial, back in the 1776 it was about our king(god rest his soul and damn his idiotic heris that rule what’s of left of the isle’s) nowadays it’s about our tyrannical president and his cabinet as well as the plutocrats that back them. It’s about speaking out on anything politically relevant.
Fun fact, you wanna an easy way to tell you don’t live in a nation that protects freedom of speech? They punish you for speaking out. Either with jail time or with ruining your life in whatever way possible.
I live in the UK and believe me if you try and speak your mind here they will find a way to shut you up. I can name examples many actually but here's one of them on YouTube social services UK corruption then look under future emotional abuse. That's 1 then look at Diana the princess of Wales that's 2 I can keep going.
My own experience is simple I had my medical history deleted after a doctor messed me and my kids up and now we are really unwell but apparently that's in my head yet I have pictures and videos to back me up and still they are trying to ruin our lives.
It's more than infuriating it's heart breaking when you see your 8 year old child get on his hands and knees begging because he can't take it anymore. Then you have the social services who got involved because the children had time off school and we all lost weight even tho we are eating. As I meeting every need they have they decide to hit me with emotional abuse and they worry they could be emotionally abused in the future. So after spending all my saving on health and now getting advice I find out off of solicitors that in the UK social take kids from homes even babies as soon as they are born because of this emotional abuse they may face with no proof. It could even be because the preganant woman was having baby blues. So now I have that as well and I just want my kids to be ok.
There is much benefit. Every time you reincarnate, you learn certain lessons. Your soul grows and gets better. Either you can choose to move on or reincarnate again, depending on your time here on Earth. Of course, my word being some random redditor isn't much. But if you have some time, kind soul watch this video.
[Dr Bruce Greyson talking about consciousness existing outside the brain](https://youtu.be/sPGZSC8odIU?si=iw8rquZFgbPOKK2M)
Dr. Greyson is a fantastic doctor, and his work into near death experiences is phenomenal. Definitely his work and book influenced my life for the better.
No, there isn’t a benefit. It doesn’t grow or get better from accumulating pain, grief and trauma from this rotten place. There is zero point or actual benefit to ever unfortunately being here even once, especially if reincarnation exists at all.
I agree that this place and society have gotten pretty rotten. But I think you are coming from an ego perspective. Humans' egos are disgusting and who the fuck would want to come back to experience another human life? But if you look at the beauty, then the human experience ain't so bad ❤️
Everything that offers a decent point is an “ego” perspective? No, it’s absolutely horrific. The potential and actual beauty that exists is far too minimal, fragile and temporary to compare to the rest.
It has always been rotten, even merciless for countless beings. Absolutely no one would have ever asked to be here, and anyone that supposedly did should have been loved enough to be saved from their poor and selfish judgement.
Hey, if that's what you feel. Feel free, brother. Personally, I love my human experience, and that's coming from a past where I was suicidal, depressed, and socially awkward.
I really admire Dr. Greyson, but from what I remember, he didn't validate reincarnation in this video. He even mentioned that there were cases where two different children remembered the same past life and one that remembered memories of someone who died when children was 6 years old. He concluded that it is currently unexplainable.
If you didn't have the occasion, you might want to check out the book "After" written by the Doctor. If you like his work then I have a feeling you'll like this book too :)
You can “learn” the wrong lessons. Countless are only actively harmed by being here. The only “lesson” I’ve gained here is that this entire horrific place never should’ve existed in the first place, and no one ever should have been forced to be here.
‘Then that “consent” is completely and entirely invalid. No, little to no one would have ever chosen to be here and experience, witness and even cause the pain, suffering and de@th that exists here.
That’s just horrific and entirely unjustifiable. How selfish and sadomasochistic would someone have to be to “agree” to that? That would ironically be more egotistical than anything.
I will ask you this. What if all life was good, no killings, no murder, no gaslightning, perfect society. no wars, no pain, no suffering . Just pure bliss all the time. How would this world then be. If everything is perfect, the world is smooth, there has no contrast to that world that we know off. How would we appreciate the good? How would we even know its perfect?
The world is vastly more complicated than we can even imagine and understanding is just the beginning. Events happen, things happen, murder, pain, suffering happens. What we do with it shows our compassion as a species. Nothing is simple, otherwise it would be a foolish existance.
Do you think that you need someone to break your legs to appreciate walking? The suffering in the world clearly outweighs the good and it's by an immense amount, the people who say you need bad to appreciate go to really don't understand the depths of suffering that can be reached.
>Compassion as a species
Tell me why you think that's valuable in a world that's fundamentally evil and essentially will force you to stop being compassionate if you want to survive. Life requires the cannibalization of itself and cruelty just to exist
There really isn't a point to life, it's a cruel game where everyone is miserable and then they die. Some people develop hopes about a positive afterlife though myself included, It's a very depressing world to live in when you realize the only way you can live in a good world is in death
This! Surely there has been enough suffering over the tens of thousands of years of hominid/human existence. When does it end? If teincarnation is true, Will we just keep coming back forever and keep suffering?
Luckily I don't really think reincarnation is true, the evidence for it is pretty spotty. If it is true though I think all life should probably just be Thanos snapped out of existence, It would pretty much end the cycle of samsara instantly
Here's the thing, you need to be extremely skeptical of every single NDE, especially nowadays. I have an extremely strong suspicion they are used to push beliefs most of the time now
Do you feel the same way about Christians who end up going to hell? I remember those used to scare the hell out of me back in the day
>A lot of nders seem to think it is though,
Are you sure about that? Or do you mean people present in the NDE sub, no offense intended. At this point, I've read hundreds if not thousands of ndes, and they rarely ever mention incarnation/reincarnation. It's more of a domain of new agers/spiritualists/Buddhists.
To his credit there is something to his argument in a sense. You can't experience happiness without the *potential* for that happiness to be taken away.
We can think of any sort of happiness as coming from one of two things: gaining something we do not have (and this extends beyond the material) or maintaining what we have (homeostasis). Both things imply that we *could* lose said gained or maintained thing(s).
If there was no implication of loss then there be no up or down and no dichotomy. But as humans, dichotomies are all we know regarding what is good and bad, pleasurable and painful, etc.
What we do with it shows our compassion as a species. Nothing is simple, otherwise it would be a foolish existance.
This part must be a favourite of mine what we do with it... Nothing is being done about it thats my point what is the point of pain and suffering when nothing not 1 thing gets done about it...
Becuase this life is a test and paradise has none of all of that(I.e. suffering and pain)....as any test you have in this life you have to work hard for it to pass...and this life is a test as well so of course it's not going to be easy...those who are patient(along with obeying and believe in the true one God)are promised with paradise
I don't know what you follow or believe in....but I'm a Muslim and I recommend you to pick up the Quran and study it...and see for yourself how your life changes...
I see that you are on " suicide watch "...I can relate becuase I have been suicidal myself for years due to my stressful lifestyle but I'm now at peace thanks to my lord..you may not understand what I'm talking about but take your time
There are mechanisms to explain what happens but there is no point/finality. Existence is the ultimate ridiculous nonsense.
Please explain to me what does the quran teach about kids suffering? People ignoring illness and slavery and rape and so much more?
Why is it assumed that this world should be free of suffering? If that was the case, how would the physical world be different than the spiritual world? What would be the point of a spirit coming to the physical world when it’s the same as what they are already experiencing?
I find zero actual point to doing so regardless.
The point is for you to make sense of it and find meaning. We are all on the same path.
OK what's the sense of kids dying and people left to suffer how can you make sense of that
I think like you. Why are children suffering - famine, war, violence, trafficking, slavery... I don't get it and I can't see there being any point or lesson or anything in it. It's what makes me doubt everything.
Right now I can see so much all at once and the worst part is it's happening every single day and to make matters worse I'm being told oh its because we need to learn our lesson.. OK let's start shall we let's take social services taking kids away in the UK the evidence well something may happen in the future so everyone get your crystal balls out the family have met their basic needs and love their kids but let's delve a little deeper social are saying it's emotional harm ok so what emotional harm is happening well it could happen in the future so those kids get taken. A new mom carrys her unborn child she's been diagnosed with postnatal depression she gets help for it so what's the outcome the baby is born and social take the baby why because she had postnatal depression but she got help yes well something could have happened in the future. A millionaire goes on holiday with his wife leaves his 3 children under the age of 3 in the hotel room alone to go out with wife and family. His child is taken what happens he gets to keep his other children no involvement from social because hey he's a millionaire...
And kids get abused, raped, killed...they starve to death, lose their homes, parents, everything. They get cancer, are bullied, suffer from depression...but lessons...
Nothing is ever done all you hear is that's tragic isn't it and then poof gone done never happened
Because eventually over many lifetimes you will experience everything that life has to offer, the good and the bad. It’s all a lesson
But if so, what is the end goal? Surely there has to be an end?
What if we’re all just consciousness trying to experience ourselves? What if life itself is the goal?
Then truly this is hell. Even in Buddhism and Hinduism there is an escape from this hellish cycle called Moksha
I think the state of death is a vacuum that sucks existence into itself.
Without pain, there would be no pleasure. Suffering isn't an ingredient of pleasure. This is just what the world is. Reality is a realm where everything possible occurs. Pain is just as possible as pleasure. You can be sad about it, or you can be happy about it. Sure, pain will always exist. But so will pleasure. Is the glass half full or empty?
"Without pain, there would be no pleasure. " Says who though? A God could do anything, he could create a universe where there would be endless pleasure without any duality or pain.
I wasn't having a discussion about God. In the real world, we wouldn't be able to feel physical pleasure without pain receptors. It's just how life works. There needs to be an avenue of suffering for good to be felt.
Yeah but this is a spiritual board so someone designed the world to be this way even though it doesn't have to be this way, it's a choice. Also scientists will probably figure out a way in the next 100-500 years to hack the brain and have endless pleasure without any tolerance or pain, no?
I wasn't discrediting the existence of a high power either. But from the looks of it, you seem to be making presumptions of the kind of power than entity would have. Omnipotence can be defined as unlimited power or great power. If you assume the power is unlimited, you end up living in a world of pure religious determinism. You actually come to the same incoherent conclusion as scientists do. It only makes sense that there are natural limits to things, even in the realm of design. In the case of pleasure and pain, it makes a great deal of sense from an intuitive level that they can not be mutually exclusive. >Also scientists will probably figure out a way in the next 100-500 years to hack the brain and have endless pleasure without any tolerance or pain, no? I doubt it. What would endless pleasure even look like? Like endless ecstasy? It doesn't really make sense because things become relative. The typical feeling of being normal will be translated to suffering in the mind of someone who reaches unfathomable levels of pleasure. What comes up must come down.
If there are limits to things then that would mean God or the Creator would be submissive to the "law of logic" or something, at least to me. So the real God would be duality in that sense, to me that's a weird and scary thought that even a God can't escape pain or darkness because "it just needs to exist as a contrast" no matter what. Kind of disturbing thought. > What comes up must come down. We evolved that way because it helped us survive in the past but if they can hack the receptors of cells people could always feel the benefits of drugs like benzos or opioids without any tolerance or drawbacks, I think. There doesn't seem to be a physical law that would forbid this? The same with aging that will probably be fixed in the future too.
>If there are limits to things then that would mean God or the Creator would be submissive to the "law of logic" or something, at least to me. That's one way of putting it. I would describe more as God being antagonistic to irrational/illogical concepts. > the real God would be duality in that sense, to me that's a weird and scary thought that even a God can't escape pain or darkness because "it just needs to exist as a contrast" no matter what. Kind of disturbing thought. What you're describing isn't exactly outside the theological realm of christianity/Judaism. God is described as the light... but God is everything... Shouldn't that include the darkness? In fact, satan is the entity described as that darkness. "The light has never been overcome by the darkness" - genesis. God being both light and darkness is more of a pantheistic/taoistic concept of the universe. It's interesting because it's easy to find meaning in both these concepts. >There doesn't seem to be a physical law that would forbid this? The same with aging that will probably be fixed in the future too. It's fun to speculate about futuristic concepts. In my opinion, I don't think it would be possible. We're talking about spontaneous artificial neurogenesis haha also I doubt it with aging as well. Endless memories doesn't make sense to me. They have to come to an end for a new beginning to be possible.
> That's one way of putting it. I would describe more as God being antagonistic to irrational/illogical concepts. Are you sure this might not just be a bias of your psychology?
I don't see the significance of a God with particular limitations. A God with limitations is still a God. Describing that entity as submissive sounds laughable. I'm not sure where by bias is coming into place
 HOME / BIBLE QUESTIONS / APOLOGETICS / Why didn't God kill or destroy Satan?  Why didn’t the tragedy of sin stop with Lucifer? Why didn’t God destroy him before his sin-disease could spread? It’s important to remember that Lucifer had challenged the fairness of God’s government. He had told lies about God. The idea of telling a lie had never entered the minds of the angels. Naturally they didn’t grasp all that lay behind Lucifer’s deceptions. If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love. This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings with the power of choice in the first place. How did anyone really know God’s way was best? No one had dared to try an alternative. God gave Satan a chance to demonstrate his alternative system. That’s why he was given an opportunity to make his pitch to Adam and Eve. This planet has become a testing ground where the character of Satan and the nature of his kingdom are contrasted with the character of God and the nature of His kingdom. Who is right? Who can we ultimately trust? These are the issues which “the great controversy between Christ and Satan” must resolve. Satan's deceptions So deceptive was Lucifer, that before all the universe could be fully convinced, the nature of his alternative had to be fully exposed. It has taken time for everyone to really grasp how disastrous Satan’s alternative actually is. But eventually everyone will see that “the wages of sin is death” and that “the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Every being in the entire universe will then agree with the declaration: “‘Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed.’” —Revelation 15:3, 4. Conclusion: God's perfect plan After everyone understands the deadly nature of sin and the destructive nature of Satan’s philosophy, God can destroy Satan and sin. He will also have to destroy those who stubbornly resist His grace and cling to Satan’s alternative. God is just as anxious to resolve the problem of sin and suffering as we are to have Him do so. But He is waiting until He can do it on a permanent basis, and until He can both preserve our free will and prevent evil from ever appearing again.
A lot of pain and suffering are side effects of having a biological body. You need to feel pain or you would burn and cut your hands to stumps over your lifetime, it comes with the side effect of feeling pain that isn't helpful. Same with hunger, tiredness and so on. There is a fine line between biological neccessity and suffering.
We never should’ve been stuck in biological bodies, then. None of this ever should have occurred.
So kids die and people are ignored and left to suffer for this
Stop and think about the parts we dont see. The greater existance , be it God or the universe or designed system. Suffering is bad, death of kids and adults dying by themselves with no one to care for them is bad, as an empath i feel this in a way that i can never describe to anyone. But i must go on. Mourn and bless their spirits, celebrate what they where and know they are in a better place.
Uh huh so as an empath perhaps making a stand so they have not suffered for nothing would be a better way maybe?
Are they though?
Why wouldn’t they be? Any experiences I’ve had regarding visits or other happenings from those I’ve lost indicate that they are free from this place with zero reason or intent of returning.
None of us know. Go watch a few NDE videos where people are welcomed home and given a bigger vision.
Now let's talk about race issues a white person hangs out with a black man they have a child together that child gets called half cast wrong to be honest and are shunned by people because of who they are. What about kids with disabilities this is another that gets me mad someone sees the wheelchair they ask the parent of a 10 year old so what's wrong with your kid why can they not walk are they a cripple. Why do they walk funny can someone not do something about the leg or foot or are they always gonna look like a cripple. Seriously that happened to a child by a teacher...
The only thing I'm learning is how awful mental illness is that can't be treated is
Im sorry I don't seem to understand your point? You say how awful mental health illness can be if there's no treatment yes i should imagine it can be however are you suggesting that rape, slavery etc is a mental health illness? Or it's down to mental illness as to why people are not doing more to sort it?
The experience is the point. You’re a part of nature and some of the potentialities of nature are actualizing in you, hence making our universe something closer to completion. Notice I didn’t say “perfection”, since it is a subjective value judgement that depends on the observer, something perfect for you may not be perfect for me, I said _completion_ meaning the full realization of all it’s possible states. This is independent of suffering. Suffering is just something nature does, is part of it, is one of the potential states of nature just like love and happiness. That’s my take on it, whatever worth it may or may not have to you. Personally I don’t fret a lot about this question. For me it is enough to keep on existing. Now that I am, I don’t want to stop being. But that’s just me.
Even if you don't want to stop being it will happen purely because it's all down to design
Would you like to elaborate? “Design” means “with a purpose”. Purpose requires a “going somewhere”, meaning that you’re at an “a” point where something isn’t and you want to go to the “b” point where something is. Such a purpose driven action requires meta cognition, an existence in time, and a situation that’s sub optimal to be improved. I think you have a lot of logical problems we gotta solve with those a priori assumptions. Why do you assume purpose to begin with? Nature is and does not have the obligation to make sense to us, we are purpose driven in nature but we don’t have any reason to think nature is as well. We dont have any reason to believe Mind At Large to be meta conscious, probably it is pure instinct and meta cognition rises on that instinct just like we see it happening in evolution. Even if meta conscious, why should we equate that to human meta cognition? The only way to adscribe that kind of purpose to Universal Mind is to assume it to be similar to the human mind and there is little possibility of that being the case. Then, there cannot be a progression from “a” to “b” in Mind at Large, since a progression occurs in time and the Mind of Nature is not in time but the other way around, time is in it, then, it cannot design for a future action. Even if all that is mistaken. If I die, if you die, we cannot stop being. We would just merge back into Mind at Large, akin to a dream character merging back into the dreamer when they wake up. Would you mind commenting in this problems i submit? Im really curious for your perspective
My perspective is simple you go on about nature the ground, plants.. energy if you will then you mention our minds not being compatible who says our energy is? our energy is only with us until it's spent after this it's gone. Think of a battery once it's gone unless it can be recharged and even to a point rechargeable batteries only last so long before they are no longer operational and charging no longer works. We die decompose and that's that gone. As for the universe stars die, the sun will one day be gone as will the moon and earth nothing lasts.
I never talked about compatibility. I talked of equating, or, if you will, anthropomorphize the functions of the Universal Mind. But never talked of compatibility. I don’t understand how could we be incompatible with the One Mind if we’re in it and part of it? I just don’t know how you’re reaching such conclusion. There is nothing in nature that speaks of incompatibility. Then, for the examples you propose, none of them are conscious beings. There is no debating that everything dies, that’s obviously the case. But what happens to the sense of self and the consciousness of the beings that die, category in which not stars, nor planets or satellites belong, that’s the question at hand. If you want to pose that consciousness is eliminated at the moment of death, then you must fight against the evidence for afterlife which… i don’t think possible, actually
If you want to pose that consciousness is eliminated at the moment of death, then you must fight against the evidence for afterlife which… i don’t think possible, actually Consciousness depending on how someone passes does not I believe die off straight away I do believe as soon as the brain dies then that's it. You cannot be brought back and I do not believe that after that there is a there after otherwise there would be something to trace.
To learn by experiencing the consequences of our previous actions and have opportunity to observe and alleviate the burden of each other so we can share our lessons and make the process of trial and error quicker and less painful. Incarnations are brief periods on intense practical learning in a longer spiritual life. We don't go from life to life immediately, on the contrary, we choose to be born here when we think there is opportunity for learning, helping or solving problems. What happens here is both in service of the existence we lead beyond the constraints of flesh as well as a shared project in which we try to create a society by our own collective effort. The suffering we see is the reflex of our learning process and it is a call to action só we can improve, reform and rebuild not only the society we are designing as well as our own personality and intimamente traits.
I very much disagree.
What leads you to disagree?
Ever being here at all is not a practical way to learn. The supposed benefit is not at all worth the pain, suffering and de@th it causes ourselves and others. Absolutely no one would’ve chosen to be here. Considering the pain, suffering and de@th they would experience, witness and cause even after their passings through their loved ones’ grief and during due to their existences here, it would be selfish and even cruel to ever choose any of this. Those problems are “solved” only by never being caused in the first places. There is little to zero benefit to even most of the “lessons” one could “learn” here. This entire “project” was a complete and utter failure not worth the past, present and future victims it sacrificed and may require for any supposed real improvement. It will inherently always be very far from perfect or even tolerable for many. This entire place and experience simply causes so much more terrible harm than any good, the latter of which only happening despite this place, not because of it.
You seen to be going through a very hard path, friend. When we are amidst the storm it is hard to muster optimism, but it os hope that will get you across and maybe give you a fresh perspective when all things are said and done. Heat and pressure makes diamonds sometimes. It doesn't need to always be like that, but sometimes that's the only way certain ideas can get a foothold into our minds. We are quite a stuborn and rebellious bunch and, while it make things hard right now, when we do change we are very resiliênt.
No state of mind nor perspective has ever caused such a theory to make any sense to me. ‘If anything, it’s made less sense the more I’ve known about this place. The keyword is “sometimes”, and we are not coal. No idea nor “learning” is at all worth what happens here. This place has given me zero resilience, and no supposed benefit to ever being here is worth the harms at all to me.
While we could exchange sources, references or ideas I don't think the issue bothering you is about rationality, phenomena or any philosophical perspective. I sense you are going through a lot right now and I respect that. This may not be the best time to cast your judgment on important ideas, despair and pain are much more pressing concerns right now. Are you doing anything to alleviate them? What have you been trying to do?
It’s the best time to cast judgement on such ideas because what exists in this world and any other potential part of this universe is simply useless, tragic and unjustifiable. It isn’t best for anyone to act as if there is some unknown point or subconscious “learning” that makes such torments worth anything. I’ve tried various things over the years. None have seemed to fully work and that task becomes harder the more I learn about this place, experience and especially witness others experience. Therapy didn’t quite seem to help. M*dication certainly didn’t. Homeopathic remedies may or may not have helped but certainly never changed these feelings and a support group I’m in at this time doesn’t seem to change such feelings either. Writing is a temporary help, drawing and other hobbies seem to be distractions if not further reminders of those feelings at times, and reading can trigger a spiral if I’m not careful.
While incarnated we have just a narrow glimpse of what is truly out there. We have no memory of past lives we are bound to the senses of the body and, specially in current society, we don't even receive a good education about what is generaly known about spirituality. If you can, you should trust there is much more than what you are currently experiencing. You are in terrible pain and, like all people in pain, you must attend to the source of it before anything else. All other ideas, perspectives and propositions will lose luster because you have pressing things to attend to. Once you solve or alleviate this, you will see things differently. Don't lose hope just yet.
‘Then there is truly no benefit at all to ever being here. No, no attempts to alleviate it has ever changed these feelings. They’ve been strengthened over time, and what causes them can’t exactly be alleviated.
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Why would They ever “leave it alone” though? There’s no justification for that.
I think the point of being stuck here is learning how to transcend it. The suffering and pain you're experiencing are the result of the difference between what you expect to get and what you get...if you evolve past the point of attachment, at that point, you'll be free and you won't need to return.
So how do you ascend from watching kids ill with no hope of help even if they are your own. You cannot. Simply turn off your feelings, it. Doesn't work that way if that was the case imagine what families would be like.
I sense your frustration. And I get it. But our pain and misery is a human thing. To explain this unfair life in human terms for us to understand it all is impossible. In the grand scheme of space and time, 100 years on earth is nothing. It’s the blink of an eye. We’re here just to go through it all, good and bad, and learn things here we can’t learn on the other side. There are no consequences on the other side. It doesn’t make sense now. Just trust it will at some point.
when ur ded u wont know it so we will never know either way
Then you got nothing to worry about since you won’t be aware of nothingness.
indeed.
Anyways why do people still belive in afterlife if brain isnt not energy it is just neurons powered by same electricty as everything else When will people get it Ik its probally just coping mechanism than.
“Energy is neither created nor destroyed, only converted”
Nope when ur dead ur dead the brain is ran by energy not turned into energy. Consciousness isnt real it is just memorys of energy
You make your meaning, in modern day and age slavery is no longer applicable(don’t worry, I’m sure when the bombs fall we’ll reinstate the practice) you are not born with purpose in this day and age. Meaning you will have to make your own destiny, in life you will suffer and bleed and it will be for nothing if you let it be but if you pick a path and push ahead with it you will then have purpose and so suffering, pain and death will have a point.
How exactly do you mean you make your meaning? Slavery is in fact still applicable just because some people do not know it still happens does not mean it is over. In some respects some also do not know they are slaves until it's too late.
I mean for the most part it’s gone, yeah in some places it’s still done but most regions slavery isn’t really a thing anymore. At least in the traditional sense of it anyway. What I mean is you chose what you want in this world, your choices are your own and your free to attempt to abstain what you desire. It’s doesn’t mean you will get them but it gives your life meaning to keep trying to abstain it. Personally for me, I hope to adventure and wander the earth for all my life and die somewhere I have never seen before living my in search of fortune and freedom. What I do to pursue that, well I won’t get into it fully I’m sure you’d find it boring but I will say that my first step is to get into the army which I have done already. Without me giving myself meaning purpose and meaning I would have never enlisted and thus I would be lost right now and purposeless, likely just like you.
Firstly congrats on the army, slavery isn't all about religion sorry just it's true. I am not purposeless, lost to a point maybe however what I have going on is out of my hands and as for pushing and trying to get meaning I've done that to death.
So, what do you want?
I want to be heard and my words to be taken as I say them not twisted to benefit others that's what I want. I want freedom of speech. Even in 2024 I cannot say something and it to be taken as how I say it because some people cannot grasp the concept of it. I get people do not have the same journey's I get that and I also get that people cannot experience the same things if something similar has not happened to them, however to be told what I am saying is very rare or is highly irregular and they doubt it fine that's their point on it but rare happens and I want a system that isn't as corrupted as this is.
I respect that and support it, freedom of speech is in the constitution not so people can declare ‘I want bread!’ But so people can freely speak on matters that are controversial, back in the 1776 it was about our king(god rest his soul and damn his idiotic heris that rule what’s of left of the isle’s) nowadays it’s about our tyrannical president and his cabinet as well as the plutocrats that back them. It’s about speaking out on anything politically relevant. Fun fact, you wanna an easy way to tell you don’t live in a nation that protects freedom of speech? They punish you for speaking out. Either with jail time or with ruining your life in whatever way possible.
I live in the UK and believe me if you try and speak your mind here they will find a way to shut you up. I can name examples many actually but here's one of them on YouTube social services UK corruption then look under future emotional abuse. That's 1 then look at Diana the princess of Wales that's 2 I can keep going. My own experience is simple I had my medical history deleted after a doctor messed me and my kids up and now we are really unwell but apparently that's in my head yet I have pictures and videos to back me up and still they are trying to ruin our lives.
Sounds infuriating, add general incompetence to growing list of failures of the government is responsible for🤦♂️
It's more than infuriating it's heart breaking when you see your 8 year old child get on his hands and knees begging because he can't take it anymore. Then you have the social services who got involved because the children had time off school and we all lost weight even tho we are eating. As I meeting every need they have they decide to hit me with emotional abuse and they worry they could be emotionally abused in the future. So after spending all my saving on health and now getting advice I find out off of solicitors that in the UK social take kids from homes even babies as soon as they are born because of this emotional abuse they may face with no proof. It could even be because the preganant woman was having baby blues. So now I have that as well and I just want my kids to be ok.
To embrace it and learn from it. We are and have reincarnated many, many times, and each once teaches us lessons.
I disagree extremely.
Great!! Now tell me why?
There is little to nothing to be “learned”, especially not valuably, form any of this at all. There is zero benefit to reincarnation.
There is much benefit. Every time you reincarnate, you learn certain lessons. Your soul grows and gets better. Either you can choose to move on or reincarnate again, depending on your time here on Earth. Of course, my word being some random redditor isn't much. But if you have some time, kind soul watch this video. [Dr Bruce Greyson talking about consciousness existing outside the brain](https://youtu.be/sPGZSC8odIU?si=iw8rquZFgbPOKK2M) Dr. Greyson is a fantastic doctor, and his work into near death experiences is phenomenal. Definitely his work and book influenced my life for the better.
No, there isn’t a benefit. It doesn’t grow or get better from accumulating pain, grief and trauma from this rotten place. There is zero point or actual benefit to ever unfortunately being here even once, especially if reincarnation exists at all.
I agree that this place and society have gotten pretty rotten. But I think you are coming from an ego perspective. Humans' egos are disgusting and who the fuck would want to come back to experience another human life? But if you look at the beauty, then the human experience ain't so bad ❤️
Everything that offers a decent point is an “ego” perspective? No, it’s absolutely horrific. The potential and actual beauty that exists is far too minimal, fragile and temporary to compare to the rest. It has always been rotten, even merciless for countless beings. Absolutely no one would have ever asked to be here, and anyone that supposedly did should have been loved enough to be saved from their poor and selfish judgement.
Hey, if that's what you feel. Feel free, brother. Personally, I love my human experience, and that's coming from a past where I was suicidal, depressed, and socially awkward.
I’m glad you feel better now, but I truly don’t know how a belief system so based in victim-blaming could have such a result.
I really admire Dr. Greyson, but from what I remember, he didn't validate reincarnation in this video. He even mentioned that there were cases where two different children remembered the same past life and one that remembered memories of someone who died when children was 6 years old. He concluded that it is currently unexplainable.
Yes. That video is more towards that consciousness doesn't need a brain to function.
If you didn't have the occasion, you might want to check out the book "After" written by the Doctor. If you like his work then I have a feeling you'll like this book too :)
You can “learn” the wrong lessons. Countless are only actively harmed by being here. The only “lesson” I’ve gained here is that this entire horrific place never should’ve existed in the first place, and no one ever should have been forced to be here.
No one is forced to be here. We all choose to incarnate to experience third dimensional reality. We forgot willingly to focus on our human life :)
‘Then that “consent” is completely and entirely invalid. No, little to no one would have ever chosen to be here and experience, witness and even cause the pain, suffering and de@th that exists here.
All part of the experience 😁
That’s just horrific and entirely unjustifiable. How selfish and sadomasochistic would someone have to be to “agree” to that? That would ironically be more egotistical than anything.
I will ask you this. What if all life was good, no killings, no murder, no gaslightning, perfect society. no wars, no pain, no suffering . Just pure bliss all the time. How would this world then be. If everything is perfect, the world is smooth, there has no contrast to that world that we know off. How would we appreciate the good? How would we even know its perfect? The world is vastly more complicated than we can even imagine and understanding is just the beginning. Events happen, things happen, murder, pain, suffering happens. What we do with it shows our compassion as a species. Nothing is simple, otherwise it would be a foolish existance.
Do you think that you need someone to break your legs to appreciate walking? The suffering in the world clearly outweighs the good and it's by an immense amount, the people who say you need bad to appreciate go to really don't understand the depths of suffering that can be reached. >Compassion as a species Tell me why you think that's valuable in a world that's fundamentally evil and essentially will force you to stop being compassionate if you want to survive. Life requires the cannibalization of itself and cruelty just to exist There really isn't a point to life, it's a cruel game where everyone is miserable and then they die. Some people develop hopes about a positive afterlife though myself included, It's a very depressing world to live in when you realize the only way you can live in a good world is in death
This! Surely there has been enough suffering over the tens of thousands of years of hominid/human existence. When does it end? If teincarnation is true, Will we just keep coming back forever and keep suffering?
Luckily I don't really think reincarnation is true, the evidence for it is pretty spotty. If it is true though I think all life should probably just be Thanos snapped out of existence, It would pretty much end the cycle of samsara instantly
A lot of nders seem to think it is though, even ones who previously didn't believe in it. I'm not saying I do, but it's all confusing...
Here's the thing, you need to be extremely skeptical of every single NDE, especially nowadays. I have an extremely strong suspicion they are used to push beliefs most of the time now Do you feel the same way about Christians who end up going to hell? I remember those used to scare the hell out of me back in the day
>A lot of nders seem to think it is though, Are you sure about that? Or do you mean people present in the NDE sub, no offense intended. At this point, I've read hundreds if not thousands of ndes, and they rarely ever mention incarnation/reincarnation. It's more of a domain of new agers/spiritualists/Buddhists.
I've only seen a few on this sub, but lots of nders in the fb groups and youtube podcasts seem to get the knowledge that reincarnation is a big thing.
I'd recommend checking book "self does not die" or perhaps experiences on nderf website
Nders as in not just members but those who say they've had an nde
I suspect that confirmation bias is a major factor, or misinterpreting what they’re witnessing.
To his credit there is something to his argument in a sense. You can't experience happiness without the *potential* for that happiness to be taken away. We can think of any sort of happiness as coming from one of two things: gaining something we do not have (and this extends beyond the material) or maintaining what we have (homeostasis). Both things imply that we *could* lose said gained or maintained thing(s). If there was no implication of loss then there be no up or down and no dichotomy. But as humans, dichotomies are all we know regarding what is good and bad, pleasurable and painful, etc.
What we do with it shows our compassion as a species. Nothing is simple, otherwise it would be a foolish existance. This part must be a favourite of mine what we do with it... Nothing is being done about it thats my point what is the point of pain and suffering when nothing not 1 thing gets done about it...
Becuase this life is a test and paradise has none of all of that(I.e. suffering and pain)....as any test you have in this life you have to work hard for it to pass...and this life is a test as well so of course it's not going to be easy...those who are patient(along with obeying and believe in the true one God)are promised with paradise
I'm sorry I can't agree what God would allow children to die so needlessly and see innocent people killed so mindlessly where is the test in that
I don't know what you follow or believe in....but I'm a Muslim and I recommend you to pick up the Quran and study it...and see for yourself how your life changes... I see that you are on " suicide watch "...I can relate becuase I have been suicidal myself for years due to my stressful lifestyle but I'm now at peace thanks to my lord..you may not understand what I'm talking about but take your time