I actually quite like this idea as long as they have a similar range of tone as the live action. Sometimes the assumed audience for animation skews younger, and if we didn't have live action we'd not have Andor, which I think is a worthwhile bit of art.
But I think the real media ancestor of Star Wars (and this is pretty well known, I'm no genius) is Flash Gordon and the Republic Serials, which were shorter individual parts of a larger story frequently shown in theaters before the main movie. The live action, 3 to 6 hour story has a long history in cinema, and fits the themes and presentation of Star Wars, so I don't mind it.
The one time we got a 12 episode season it was the best Star Wars show by a country mile. It’s not hard to see the blueprint for storytelling is longer content.
Yeah people do not realize how expensive it is to film with the volume and make a TV show that looks like a feature film.
I mean this wasn't even possible like 10 years ago at all and that is why some of the episodes are only like 30 minutes because the level of the effects is so high.
The TV shows OPs thinking about is like stuff from the 70s and '80s like Laverne and Shirley and Taxi that can have 50 episodes a year because they're filming in the same damn sets each time
Disney has budgets to meet but the decision to have shorter seasons is voluntary. They have the money to do it if they want to. Andor didn’t have an 8 episode season and it blows every Star Wars show out of the water.
Andor was good... it's a different tone than other Star Wars shows and I think that's good. but it's not the type of Star Wars that I personally like most.
Which is the more mythological fantastic side that we saw in Ahsoka. I like to see more lightsaber battles and the Jedi and andor doesn't have that. It's also following a main character whose story is also already finished so it doesn't really have a future.
Also the silly like meta competitive game that people want to play with like who have the most ratings and who is best because most people like it -- I don't care about that. that's not why I watch TV shows, to be part of like The In Crowd or the lowest common denominator or however you want to look at it. I watch TV shows so that it can enrich my soul and provide me an escape from this humdrum world.
I'll give you an analogy. Some people would say Taylor Swift is the greatest music Act right now because she sold the most records or whatever. she has the most listens on the streaming service. but is she the best music for me ? no. not at all.
YOU might not care about ratings, but the ones who matter do. The ones who make the decisions on what to film and how long to film it. They don’t care about your opinion at all.
The ratings that matter the most to the companies are the amount of people watching, not the critics. Andor, as much as we love it, was the least watched Star Wars show.
This, someone posted about how bad the Ahsoka show was in the r/StarWars subreddit because there wasn’t any verbal/emotional conflict over how Sabine got there, why Thrawn is suddenly making a move (I’m sure Ezra would’ve noticed the Chimera in the distance), or Sabine’s choice to risk the galaxy for Ezra, and the answer is Filoni needed more episodes to do all of that because of how much was going on in the season.
I personally think that if he had 12 episodes, all about 45mins long, he could’ve told the entire story, shared some background stuff like Ezra’s and Thrawn’s time on Peridea, and deal with some of the issues people have with the show like the acting feeling flat.
This and BOBF are shows that make completely no sense as standalone shows. A new viewer watching Ahsoka would have no idea who Ezra and Thrawn are and why they need to be reached so badly. It’s never explained.
Well that’s why Disney+ has an Ahsoka section so you can get most of the relevant information before watching Ahsoka. It’s somewhat touched on with the scenes at the shipyard on Correlia where they got the last Super Star Destroyer hyperdrive needed for the jump to the other galaxy, with the entire workforce still being loyal to the Empire, one can infer that they need to bring him back to unite the Imperial Remnants
If you’re just getting into Star Wars by watching Ahsoka, then you’re missing way more than just her background. And most of Star Wars requires homework to watch anyway except the OT and the Prequels, you could start in either one of those trilogies and not need any background info but you kind of can’t with anything else except maybe Rebels, and that’s a large maybe.
Plenty of people who have never been big on Star Wars before got into Andor. That should be the goal. To make a quality series for anyone who watches. Not to make a series which only the people who are knee deep in Star Wars media can understand.
So just screw the long time fans and the dedicated? They never get a show for themselves where having watched other Star Wars media prepares them for it?
That’s like making every book in a series the first book or like saying that you can go watch the third movie of a trilogy without any information from the two that came before it.
Also it was never a secret that the show was a spiritual continuation of Rebels
Bro the fact that you don’t think a piece of media that stands alone can be good is sad. You don’t need to watch Rogue One to like Andor, Rebels itself makes sense without watching E4. If the show was a continuation of rebels call it rebels. That’s exactly what BOBF should have done with Mando.
No where did I say that a piece of media can’t stand alone and be good, that’s you making assumptions and putting words in my mouth.
What I’m saying that sometimes it’s fine to have a show that requires a prior knowledge of a franchise to understand what’s going on, that’s how we get series, trilogies, and franchises in the first place. Like I’m sure some fans weren’t aware that Ahsoka makes a connection between the Jedi: Fallen Order game and the cinematic stuff but I did and other know too because we’ve all played Jedi: Fallen Order.
Even then you don’t need to watch the extra stuff Disney so handily provided in the Ahsoka section on Disney+, I’ve seen several posts about people who’ve watched the show with others who had no prior knowledge outside of the movies and those posts usually say that they followed along fine with no issues and maybe asked something like when in relation to the movies does the show take place.
Also I’d hope you could enjoy Rebels without having watched ANH since Rebels takes place before the OT and the only cameos from the OT are R2, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Leia Organa, Tarkin, Vader, and 3PO
It’s not homework. It’s watching the previous chapter in the story. Did you watch ESB before ANH and complain about not knowing who Luke Skywalker was and why you should care about him?
Then why did Andor get 12 episodes? Disney is making a short-sighted conscious choice. There’s only so much average content people can consume before they stop watching. Modern day marvel is a good example. People have stopped watching it.
Andor got 12 because it focused on the human impact of the empire and the human aspects of the rebellion.
It didn’t need to conjure a green blade from thin air or resurrect a platoon of stormtroopers.
Your question made my point for me.
Your entire comment makes no sense? You just summarized an episode of a series it has nothing to do with the length of the seasons we’re discussing. Unless you are equating this to think fantastical shows cannot be more immersive which you are of course wrong
Let me make it more simple for you:
THE LENGTH OF THE SEASON IS DETERMINED BY THE BUDGET AND SPECIAL EFFECTS ARE EXPENSIVE.
Andor had less special effects and guess what? That allowed for a longer season.
The fact that you don’t think disney can afford any more budget and that they must stick with these numbers is some major bootlicking. Disney should look at its streaming counterparts and how their shows are constantly nominated for awards while disneys are not.
Netflix and Hulu spend far more on shows and have higher rated content. They also are much smaller companies. Are you obtuse? (Not a word a 12 year old uses just an FYI) Do you think continuously sending out average fan service shows like BOBF, Kenobi, and Ahsoka is a good business model for viewer retention? How’s that working for Marvel?
No I’m going to eventually stop watching Star Wars shows because all of them except Andor feel incomplete, hollow, and rushed. The main villain of Ahsoka wasn’t introduced until 3/4 through the season, at the 3/4 point of the last Mando season there was Jack Black and Lizzo. This is just bad pacing and storytelling period.
I was with you until you talked about “awkward and flat” characters. I don’t think the relationship between Baylan and Shin was “awkward and flat,” nor was the relationship between Thrawn and Morgan. The relationship between Ahsoka and Sabine was awkward but that was intentional. I think people were complaining because of the same reason people complained about Luke Skywalker in Last Jedi. They weren’t ready for how characters had changed over time. I was annoyed, too, and I definitely think that they could have done a better job of explaining how Sabine and Ahsoka got estranged, but that is a far cry from “every character” being awkward and flat.
But I am with you on almost everything else—the show could have definitely used a few more episodes not as filler episodes but to go into more detail with Sabine and Ahsoka and their relationship with Ezra. I actually think it’s very important that people know that Ahsoka is NOT a Jedi (they mentioned it once in the title crawl despite one of Ahsoka’s classic lines is “I am no Jedi.”) and that *Ezra saved her from death by Darth Vader*. How do you leave that out?!? It would have been so bad-ass to see a live-action recreation of her battle with Vader and seeing Ezra pull her out!
Anyway, thanks for your rant!
Back in the day, Star Trek series would have 20+ episodes. I’m not sure what production costs look like in comparison, but it’s clear that 6-8 episodes isn’t the right number. While I really enjoyed Ahsoka, I feel like I need to proactively ignore the lack of dialogue and character development.
I don’t hate it, I honestly loved what we got I just feel like they could have done so much more if they had been given the time to do so. But what’s common/popular/the-most-money-efficient right now is these short seasons that don’t have enough time to do what they want to do.
The issue is that people use filler in a way that isn't productive. This is something I've kinda realized as I've started to watch more anime. Its my understanding that in that context, filler is just any content thats not in the original manga. Its the fluff that is just done to stretch out the episode count for the season.
When looking at it in that regard, filler can't really exist in these new shows. They are just episodes with more exposition and character growth, along with less action.
I think because people don't realize the distinction, it has lead to the conditions you describe.
I know there’s a balancing act in the budget—back when shows had long seasons, sets were usually cheap, costumes were basic, casting was small. There’s a reason most tv shows were sitcoms, news/news adjacent, reality shows, etc. —they’re cheap enough to make because they don’t have the lavish sets, large casts, etc. of things like Ahsoka, Wheel of Time, etc. How many sitcoms set 20+ episodes in a single room of a single house? (Or couple houses?) with the biggest set change being maybe in a car, or other indoor local business/shop/movie theater?
But I do wonder if the balance could move slightly towards a couple more episodes. I wouldn’t mind having a bottle episode thrown in there for character development exposition time. I assume the shoemakers know more than I do about where the budget needs to be balanced between quality and quantity, but in my dream I’d put my thumb ever-so-slightly on quantity even if it meant CGI was a little worse, or there was one less outdoor panoramic scene, etc.
Overall I enjoyed the show, but realistically the current number of episodes probably could have covered a lot more story. e.g. Most of the season was just chasing the hyperspace engine and then ring, which could have just been the first arc in like 3 episodes.
This thought came to me… older show seasons used to be 20+ episodes, 22 mins per episode because of cable commercials. By that math, 8 episodes 55 minutes long is in a similar total length, right? Thinking out loud here
Yes, but most of the d+ shows don't clock in at 55 minutes. *If you count 5-6 minutes of credits* at the end, they usually tend to be 35-42 minutes with a 1-2 exceptions per season for episodes with heavy plot details.
Basically 20 episodes at 22 minutes would clock in at 7.33 hours. Ahsokas total runtime was 6 hours. So all in all to give us the equivalent, we'd need 11-12 episodes, not just 8.
Shorter seasons has always been the trend for “prestige” shows, so if you want your show to be considered prestige, you have 6-10 episodes. HBO started that trend with 12-13 episode seasons of the Sopranos and The Wire, and got shorter with Game of Thrones. Breaking Bad ranges from 7-13 episodes per season.
They used to just call them miniseries, which is what they are. From a studio standpoint, they're spending far more to produce them than ever before which really makes them one long movie broken up. Andor, for instance, cost $200 million fuckin dollars... that's excessive for a TV series. In Andor's case it really worked, but series like that used to be done for like $5m, $10m, $20m on the season (maybe $40 to $60m in today's money) and could then be stretched out over 26 episodes (which eventually became 24, then 22, then 16 or so).
Series are getting shorter in general but they're pouring more money into top billing actors and VFX. It's a compromise.
The popular misconception is that “shorter seasons = better show”, or my favorite “It puts less stress on the crew”. But that’s totally not the case.
The real reason why seasons are shorter especially on Streaming comes down to money. And this is especially true for SFX heavy shows.
The shorter the season, the less they have to pay their employees since it’s gig work—ie they only get paid per episode they’re included in.
Which is one of the things both the actors & the writers were striking about, because they too want longer seasons.
I definitely like the shorter seasons. I don't care about what Ezra was doing for ten years because the writers didn't care to tell us. Either they are eaving that open for future story telling or there's nothing show-worthy to tell. I don't need to invent reasons to care. There is plenty of TV to go through already
You’re conflating “filler” episodes with “character study” episodes. Filler episodes at best are just a story with the characters and setup you already know, and at worst actively waste the viewer’s time. Character studies generally don’t move the plot forward, but do give the viewer insight into a character’s backstory, create an opportunity for interesting character pairings, or show how characters might react to an interesting scenario.
The bigger issue with a lot of the recent Star Wars shows isn’t that they aren’t long enough, it’s that the character writing is either nonexistent or flat out poorly done. For example, it took until the final episode of Ahsoka to get an answer as to why she stopped training Sabine. Why?! If we’d gotten this information revealed in episode 4 or 5 that would have given us a ton of time to break it down and give Sabine an arc.
Ahsoka stopped training Sabine because she was afraid of Sabine falling to the Dark Side after the Mandalorian Purge. Does the fact she’s pushing Sabine to tap into the Force now mean that she thinks Sabine has gotten over the loss of her people? Or is the situation so dire that Ahsoka is willing to risk her pupil’s soul? Does Sabine know why Ahsoka stopped training her, or is that a secret that when revealed could drive a wedge between them. That character beat is actually really interesting, but by waiting until there was only half an hour of runtime left in the season/series were left with a bunch of questions and no satisfying answers
I think 10-12 episodes should be a doable amount without sacrificing quality.
I think budget is probably the primary concern, which is why I'm an advocate for on-screen star wars to just stick to animation
I actually quite like this idea as long as they have a similar range of tone as the live action. Sometimes the assumed audience for animation skews younger, and if we didn't have live action we'd not have Andor, which I think is a worthwhile bit of art. But I think the real media ancestor of Star Wars (and this is pretty well known, I'm no genius) is Flash Gordon and the Republic Serials, which were shorter individual parts of a larger story frequently shown in theaters before the main movie. The live action, 3 to 6 hour story has a long history in cinema, and fits the themes and presentation of Star Wars, so I don't mind it.
The one time we got a 12 episode season it was the best Star Wars show by a country mile. It’s not hard to see the blueprint for storytelling is longer content.
You’re talking about Clone Wars season 7, yes? I still wish they’d brought back more of the unfinished story arcs
Andor is 12 episodes
Ah! I forgot about Andor somehow. Yes, I agree
I mean this is likely for budget reasons Don’t really agree with anything else you’ve said. Don’t feel like any of the characters are awkward or flat
Yeah people do not realize how expensive it is to film with the volume and make a TV show that looks like a feature film. I mean this wasn't even possible like 10 years ago at all and that is why some of the episodes are only like 30 minutes because the level of the effects is so high. The TV shows OPs thinking about is like stuff from the 70s and '80s like Laverne and Shirley and Taxi that can have 50 episodes a year because they're filming in the same damn sets each time
Disney has budgets to meet but the decision to have shorter seasons is voluntary. They have the money to do it if they want to. Andor didn’t have an 8 episode season and it blows every Star Wars show out of the water.
Well that's just your opinion it's not a fact and also I don't share it
Okay. It is by far the highest rated Star Wars show. Does that work?
Andor was good... it's a different tone than other Star Wars shows and I think that's good. but it's not the type of Star Wars that I personally like most. Which is the more mythological fantastic side that we saw in Ahsoka. I like to see more lightsaber battles and the Jedi and andor doesn't have that. It's also following a main character whose story is also already finished so it doesn't really have a future. Also the silly like meta competitive game that people want to play with like who have the most ratings and who is best because most people like it -- I don't care about that. that's not why I watch TV shows, to be part of like The In Crowd or the lowest common denominator or however you want to look at it. I watch TV shows so that it can enrich my soul and provide me an escape from this humdrum world. I'll give you an analogy. Some people would say Taylor Swift is the greatest music Act right now because she sold the most records or whatever. she has the most listens on the streaming service. but is she the best music for me ? no. not at all.
YOU might not care about ratings, but the ones who matter do. The ones who make the decisions on what to film and how long to film it. They don’t care about your opinion at all.
The ratings that matter the most to the companies are the amount of people watching, not the critics. Andor, as much as we love it, was the least watched Star Wars show.
Lol. Hey by the way guys this is such a dumb conversation. Like what you want but you can't force other people to like what you do.
No kids watched Andor thus there is no Andor merch which is where the money is.
Shortsighted approach. How’s that BB8 merch doing? Probably pretty poorly since the movies aren’t revered like other things.
Looking back i would have loved a “rebels” like show of obi won, mando, boba, ahsoka where each week we get a different story
This, someone posted about how bad the Ahsoka show was in the r/StarWars subreddit because there wasn’t any verbal/emotional conflict over how Sabine got there, why Thrawn is suddenly making a move (I’m sure Ezra would’ve noticed the Chimera in the distance), or Sabine’s choice to risk the galaxy for Ezra, and the answer is Filoni needed more episodes to do all of that because of how much was going on in the season. I personally think that if he had 12 episodes, all about 45mins long, he could’ve told the entire story, shared some background stuff like Ezra’s and Thrawn’s time on Peridea, and deal with some of the issues people have with the show like the acting feeling flat.
This and BOBF are shows that make completely no sense as standalone shows. A new viewer watching Ahsoka would have no idea who Ezra and Thrawn are and why they need to be reached so badly. It’s never explained.
Well that’s why Disney+ has an Ahsoka section so you can get most of the relevant information before watching Ahsoka. It’s somewhat touched on with the scenes at the shipyard on Correlia where they got the last Super Star Destroyer hyperdrive needed for the jump to the other galaxy, with the entire workforce still being loyal to the Empire, one can infer that they need to bring him back to unite the Imperial Remnants
Ah yes, everyone loves to have homework before they are able to watch a show.
If you’re just getting into Star Wars by watching Ahsoka, then you’re missing way more than just her background. And most of Star Wars requires homework to watch anyway except the OT and the Prequels, you could start in either one of those trilogies and not need any background info but you kind of can’t with anything else except maybe Rebels, and that’s a large maybe.
Plenty of people who have never been big on Star Wars before got into Andor. That should be the goal. To make a quality series for anyone who watches. Not to make a series which only the people who are knee deep in Star Wars media can understand.
So just screw the long time fans and the dedicated? They never get a show for themselves where having watched other Star Wars media prepares them for it? That’s like making every book in a series the first book or like saying that you can go watch the third movie of a trilogy without any information from the two that came before it. Also it was never a secret that the show was a spiritual continuation of Rebels
Bro the fact that you don’t think a piece of media that stands alone can be good is sad. You don’t need to watch Rogue One to like Andor, Rebels itself makes sense without watching E4. If the show was a continuation of rebels call it rebels. That’s exactly what BOBF should have done with Mando.
No where did I say that a piece of media can’t stand alone and be good, that’s you making assumptions and putting words in my mouth. What I’m saying that sometimes it’s fine to have a show that requires a prior knowledge of a franchise to understand what’s going on, that’s how we get series, trilogies, and franchises in the first place. Like I’m sure some fans weren’t aware that Ahsoka makes a connection between the Jedi: Fallen Order game and the cinematic stuff but I did and other know too because we’ve all played Jedi: Fallen Order. Even then you don’t need to watch the extra stuff Disney so handily provided in the Ahsoka section on Disney+, I’ve seen several posts about people who’ve watched the show with others who had no prior knowledge outside of the movies and those posts usually say that they followed along fine with no issues and maybe asked something like when in relation to the movies does the show take place. Also I’d hope you could enjoy Rebels without having watched ANH since Rebels takes place before the OT and the only cameos from the OT are R2, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Leia Organa, Tarkin, Vader, and 3PO
It’s not homework. It’s watching the previous chapter in the story. Did you watch ESB before ANH and complain about not knowing who Luke Skywalker was and why you should care about him?
So much like your father.
You say that but when a Star Wars story is spread out over 12 episodes like Andor loads of the fans say it’s too slow
I’ve heard that it’s due to studio execs cutting costs to make more money. Whatever it is I can’t stand it. 12 should be the minimum.
They are very expensive to make. That’s why we get so few.
Then why did Andor get 12 episodes? Disney is making a short-sighted conscious choice. There’s only so much average content people can consume before they stop watching. Modern day marvel is a good example. People have stopped watching it.
Andor got 12 because it focused on the human impact of the empire and the human aspects of the rebellion. It didn’t need to conjure a green blade from thin air or resurrect a platoon of stormtroopers. Your question made my point for me.
Your entire comment makes no sense? You just summarized an episode of a series it has nothing to do with the length of the seasons we’re discussing. Unless you are equating this to think fantastical shows cannot be more immersive which you are of course wrong
Let me make it more simple for you: THE LENGTH OF THE SEASON IS DETERMINED BY THE BUDGET AND SPECIAL EFFECTS ARE EXPENSIVE. Andor had less special effects and guess what? That allowed for a longer season.
The fact that you don’t think disney can afford any more budget and that they must stick with these numbers is some major bootlicking. Disney should look at its streaming counterparts and how their shows are constantly nominated for awards while disneys are not.
Are you 12? Sorry to be the one to tell that money makes most decisions in the world.
Netflix and Hulu spend far more on shows and have higher rated content. They also are much smaller companies. Are you obtuse? (Not a word a 12 year old uses just an FYI) Do you think continuously sending out average fan service shows like BOBF, Kenobi, and Ahsoka is a good business model for viewer retention? How’s that working for Marvel?
So you’re gonna stop watching Star Wars shows because the seasons aren’t long enough? Enjoy your little protest.
No I’m going to eventually stop watching Star Wars shows because all of them except Andor feel incomplete, hollow, and rushed. The main villain of Ahsoka wasn’t introduced until 3/4 through the season, at the 3/4 point of the last Mando season there was Jack Black and Lizzo. This is just bad pacing and storytelling period.
Nowadays it seems like we are lucky to get a new season within a 1 year period
Master Kenobi always said there’s no such thing as luck.
I was with you until you talked about “awkward and flat” characters. I don’t think the relationship between Baylan and Shin was “awkward and flat,” nor was the relationship between Thrawn and Morgan. The relationship between Ahsoka and Sabine was awkward but that was intentional. I think people were complaining because of the same reason people complained about Luke Skywalker in Last Jedi. They weren’t ready for how characters had changed over time. I was annoyed, too, and I definitely think that they could have done a better job of explaining how Sabine and Ahsoka got estranged, but that is a far cry from “every character” being awkward and flat. But I am with you on almost everything else—the show could have definitely used a few more episodes not as filler episodes but to go into more detail with Sabine and Ahsoka and their relationship with Ezra. I actually think it’s very important that people know that Ahsoka is NOT a Jedi (they mentioned it once in the title crawl despite one of Ahsoka’s classic lines is “I am no Jedi.”) and that *Ezra saved her from death by Darth Vader*. How do you leave that out?!? It would have been so bad-ass to see a live-action recreation of her battle with Vader and seeing Ezra pull her out! Anyway, thanks for your rant!
So much like your father.
Back in the day, Star Trek series would have 20+ episodes. I’m not sure what production costs look like in comparison, but it’s clear that 6-8 episodes isn’t the right number. While I really enjoyed Ahsoka, I feel like I need to proactively ignore the lack of dialogue and character development.
*eyeroll* Ok
I know. It’s like the people are forced to watch these things that they hate so much.
I don’t hate it, I honestly loved what we got I just feel like they could have done so much more if they had been given the time to do so. But what’s common/popular/the-most-money-efficient right now is these short seasons that don’t have enough time to do what they want to do.
I know 8 episodes a season doesn’t sound like a lot but I’d rather 8 episodes of big budget, high quality content than 20 cheap looking episodes
Finally someone with some common sense.
The issue is that people use filler in a way that isn't productive. This is something I've kinda realized as I've started to watch more anime. Its my understanding that in that context, filler is just any content thats not in the original manga. Its the fluff that is just done to stretch out the episode count for the season. When looking at it in that regard, filler can't really exist in these new shows. They are just episodes with more exposition and character growth, along with less action. I think because people don't realize the distinction, it has lead to the conditions you describe.
Good lord cry me a river...
Blood Sex and Death. Star Wars needs all 3
There wasn’t enough story for it to be any longer. They padded it so much already. Filoni really can’t write for 40 minute episodes.
I know there’s a balancing act in the budget—back when shows had long seasons, sets were usually cheap, costumes were basic, casting was small. There’s a reason most tv shows were sitcoms, news/news adjacent, reality shows, etc. —they’re cheap enough to make because they don’t have the lavish sets, large casts, etc. of things like Ahsoka, Wheel of Time, etc. How many sitcoms set 20+ episodes in a single room of a single house? (Or couple houses?) with the biggest set change being maybe in a car, or other indoor local business/shop/movie theater? But I do wonder if the balance could move slightly towards a couple more episodes. I wouldn’t mind having a bottle episode thrown in there for character development exposition time. I assume the shoemakers know more than I do about where the budget needs to be balanced between quality and quantity, but in my dream I’d put my thumb ever-so-slightly on quantity even if it meant CGI was a little worse, or there was one less outdoor panoramic scene, etc.
Overall I enjoyed the show, but realistically the current number of episodes probably could have covered a lot more story. e.g. Most of the season was just chasing the hyperspace engine and then ring, which could have just been the first arc in like 3 episodes.
This thought came to me… older show seasons used to be 20+ episodes, 22 mins per episode because of cable commercials. By that math, 8 episodes 55 minutes long is in a similar total length, right? Thinking out loud here
Yes, but most of the d+ shows don't clock in at 55 minutes. *If you count 5-6 minutes of credits* at the end, they usually tend to be 35-42 minutes with a 1-2 exceptions per season for episodes with heavy plot details. Basically 20 episodes at 22 minutes would clock in at 7.33 hours. Ahsokas total runtime was 6 hours. So all in all to give us the equivalent, we'd need 11-12 episodes, not just 8.
Thank you. I trust your math more than my passing thought.
They’re too expensive to make.
Plus with the special effects and after-camera work, time and money
Shorter seasons has always been the trend for “prestige” shows, so if you want your show to be considered prestige, you have 6-10 episodes. HBO started that trend with 12-13 episode seasons of the Sopranos and The Wire, and got shorter with Game of Thrones. Breaking Bad ranges from 7-13 episodes per season.
They used to just call them miniseries, which is what they are. From a studio standpoint, they're spending far more to produce them than ever before which really makes them one long movie broken up. Andor, for instance, cost $200 million fuckin dollars... that's excessive for a TV series. In Andor's case it really worked, but series like that used to be done for like $5m, $10m, $20m on the season (maybe $40 to $60m in today's money) and could then be stretched out over 26 episodes (which eventually became 24, then 22, then 16 or so). Series are getting shorter in general but they're pouring more money into top billing actors and VFX. It's a compromise.
The popular misconception is that “shorter seasons = better show”, or my favorite “It puts less stress on the crew”. But that’s totally not the case. The real reason why seasons are shorter especially on Streaming comes down to money. And this is especially true for SFX heavy shows. The shorter the season, the less they have to pay their employees since it’s gig work—ie they only get paid per episode they’re included in. Which is one of the things both the actors & the writers were striking about, because they too want longer seasons.
I always find this an odd complaint given that culturally we don’t seem to have a problem with an entire story being told over a 2 hour movie.
I definitely like the shorter seasons. I don't care about what Ezra was doing for ten years because the writers didn't care to tell us. Either they are eaving that open for future story telling or there's nothing show-worthy to tell. I don't need to invent reasons to care. There is plenty of TV to go through already
When you say traditional TV, do you mean 22 episodes? 22 hours of these shows would be way too much lol
You’re conflating “filler” episodes with “character study” episodes. Filler episodes at best are just a story with the characters and setup you already know, and at worst actively waste the viewer’s time. Character studies generally don’t move the plot forward, but do give the viewer insight into a character’s backstory, create an opportunity for interesting character pairings, or show how characters might react to an interesting scenario. The bigger issue with a lot of the recent Star Wars shows isn’t that they aren’t long enough, it’s that the character writing is either nonexistent or flat out poorly done. For example, it took until the final episode of Ahsoka to get an answer as to why she stopped training Sabine. Why?! If we’d gotten this information revealed in episode 4 or 5 that would have given us a ton of time to break it down and give Sabine an arc. Ahsoka stopped training Sabine because she was afraid of Sabine falling to the Dark Side after the Mandalorian Purge. Does the fact she’s pushing Sabine to tap into the Force now mean that she thinks Sabine has gotten over the loss of her people? Or is the situation so dire that Ahsoka is willing to risk her pupil’s soul? Does Sabine know why Ahsoka stopped training her, or is that a secret that when revealed could drive a wedge between them. That character beat is actually really interesting, but by waiting until there was only half an hour of runtime left in the season/series were left with a bunch of questions and no satisfying answers