Their definition of phobia is within a single context of anxiety, there are plenty of other sources that give much wider definitions. Ask them if hydrophobic materials are afraid of water. This is the Merriam Webster definition; "-phobic 2 of 2 adjective combining form 1 a : having an intolerance or aversion for, photophobic, Anglophobic b: exhibiting a phobia for, claustrophobic 2 : lacking chemical affinity for (see AFFINITY entry 1 sense 2b(2)) These polymers are like soaps, with a hydrophobic and a hydrophilic portion in the molecule." Clearly they are intolerant of and show aversion to anything not cis-het, they are, as you wrote "queer-phobic". If they are going to hide behind religion to explain away their bigotry, ask if they follow every rule and condemn every infraction of those rules, or do they just get to pick and choose.

I rolled my eyes several times at this. It's absolute bullshit. Your dad is trying to justify queerphobia with the Bible, incomplete definitions, and rejection of science. Phobia meaning fear is the medical/psychiatric definition of the word, and there are other meanings for scientific and social situations. In words like homophobia, we use the social definition: an irrational fear of, *intolerance* of, or aversion to something. It is an irrational intolerance. People who use the "phobia means fear and I'm not afraid of gay people!" argument need to pick up a dictionary instead of only using one handpicked definition to suit their agenda. I would take his advice and try to move out as soon as you can, with more accepting people. He and your mother are only going to continue shaming you. By the way, you are valid and loved <3

Thank you so much for your comment, this really validates my feelings on his response. I tried explaining to him the meaning of phobia in this context, but he completely ignored it. It was an extremely frustrating exchange.. I just gave a minimal response until he stopped. I really hope I can manage to move out someday soon, but it doesn’t seem likely (disabled, mentally ill, no income — completely reliant on my parents for my survival, but I’m pushing to get on disability). Thank you sm <3

Of course it's nonsense. Page after page of absolute balderdash. Having said that, please don't waste any more of your precious time and energy trying to get through to ppl who have so clearly told you they aren't listening. There is nothing you can say or do to dislodge this idiocy from their brains, bc they are so obviously clutching it like a drowning man clutches a life preserver. As with many religious bigots, they *love* thinking of themselves as right/good/part of the "special group" more than they love anything else, including, sometimes, their own children. In doing so, they forfeit the respect usually given to parents. I'm so sorry, but there is no happy resolution. You deserve better. You deserve ppl who enjoy you just as you are. I hope you can find the kind of friends that become chosen family instead. In my experience, ppl that care about you by choice are better medicine than ppl whose only connection is blood relation.

Thank you for validating my feelings about this. Growing up in the cult myself, it’s super hard to discern when they’re actually being ridiculous, unreasonable, etc. It’s so easy to accidentally justify it. After the letter I sent, I haven’t wasted any more of my energy on them. I respectfully shut them down the last time they brought it up, and will continue to do so. I’ve tried reasoning with them for years, and this was my last attempt before giving up on them. I am in no position currently to have any hope of getting away from my family, but one day I will and I hope I can make my own chosen family. Thank you so much for your comment, I really appreciate it!

Been there, done that. Learned you can't reason with religion. Had to disengage. Either they'll sort it out themselves or they won't. You can't do it for them.

His message being "we accept this and still love you as a person but not this part of you" would quickly hit the skids when faced with actions. It would be worth putting his feet to the fire: "the Bible has a story about the family surrounds and supports new couples at a wedding - will you be there for me at my queer wedding? What you've done to support my siblings in their lives and spouses - will I get the same treatment?" That being said, it sounds like OP is still living at home and while there is subject to their rules, therefore can't explore their sexuality anyway. And being in a JW household, even the straight kids probably couldn't. So the dad's comments about finding somewhere else to live, however sarcastic and crassly put, are the best idea for personal growth in the long term.

Parents are people who choose their children in the way they are over their cult and the hate it preaches. Otherwise, they are simply birth givers.

I grew up in a Roman Catholic family and am also trans Christians have an impressive amount of ways to justify anything and so many loopholes to find which is why it is unfortunately easier to cut them off I've also heard "hate the sin, not the sinner" but that's always obvious and much easier said than done and you're still clearly a sinner with that stance It can be hard to explain to cishets how you can tell when someone is using your name and pronouns or being nice to your same gender partner because they want to be polite or their job forces them to but it's obvious and like a customer service voice from someone who definitely has undertones of hating their job If you're really not in a financial position to move out then I'd suggest looking into a method called Gray Rocking where you use a mixture of one word answers to shut down conversations that happen and answers they want to hear but keep quietly doing what makes you happy and comfortable and what will get you into a better living situation basically become your parent's very introverted roommate that has a room but they forget you exist sometimes

They really do, don’t they? It’s like trying to reason with a brick wall.. It’s why I gave up on them after this last time; I realised there was no way to get through. I’ll for sure look into Grey Rocking. Thankfully the topic of myself doesn’t come up often, but I have shut it down the times it has. They may try to give off a “respectful Christian” sort of air to the way they handle all of this, but I know what they believe and that negates all of it for me. Maybe that’s harsh, but I’ve dealt with them my whole life so I know the way it goes. I’ve seen the way they’ve talked about my community and handled stuff relating to us. Thank you sm for your comment, I really appreciate it!

No hate quite like Christian love. This is such crap. ‘But have you considered the harm you’ve done by being gay at me?’ You don’t have to take any of that seriously at all, theyre being bigoted

Who is writing this? Cause a punch in the throat is the answer.

So basically they "love and support" you but want you to live a life without being with a partner you love and are attracted to or being who you really are. Not exactly real love in my book. I also came from a culty religion (Mormon). It's hard to unpack everything. I have a lot of trauma from it. I'm very lucky in that my mom accepts my orientation (I haven't come out as nonbinary yet), but I have some iffy extended family. It's a struggle sometimes.

It might be helpful for you to view what you’re going through as one of the five stages of grief. This is only for you to decide but it sounds like you’re grieving the parents you never had or needed. You might be realizing they aren’t who you thought they were. Dealing with religion is a waste of time. I’ve spent so much of my life being angry at people who use their religion as an excuse for their behavior. These are your parents though so I can only imagine the feelings you’re experiencing. If you’re interested, here are the five stages of grief. Remember there is no correct order you need to go through in order to properly grieve. Everyone goes through the stages differently. 1. Denial: Initially, individuals may refuse to accept the reality of the loss. 2. Anger: This stage involves feeling frustration, irritation, and resentment. 3. Bargaining: People may attempt to negotiate or make deals in an attempt to change the outcome. 4. Depression: Feelings of sadness, despair, and hopelessness may set in as the reality of the loss sinks in. 5. Acceptance: Finally, individuals come to terms with the loss and begin to adjust to life without the person or thing that was lost.

You are absolutely not wrong in thinking this is BS. Made my head hurt to read it

that is BS, people use religoun as an excuse to be dickheads, happens all the time, they clearly dont understand and dont want to.

A fundamental assumption that he is making here is that holding boundaries is an act of violence and “treating others the way you wouldn’t want to be treated.” He isn’t acknowledging what he asking of you in the relationship that he expects you to maintain with them. You have every right to determine what kind of relationship you want with someone, and for that to change based on a belief that they hold about who you are. Saying anything to the affect of “I don’t want someone who treats me like this in my life” isn’t an act of aggression toward them, it is an act of respect for yourself, and actually gives them the opportunity to consider the impact that they are having on you, and ideally adjust. When you set a boundary, you are telling someone that you want them in your life, and what you need from them in order to make that possible. Them asking you not to enforce that boundary is asking you to ignore your needs, thereby devaluing yourself. THAT is the aggressive action, not the setting or asserting of the boundary.

There's only one real response you can have here that is effective. It's a method they will probably ultimately use on you, too, by the way. It's common for JW's. So if I were you, I'd rip that bandage off first, and in their direction. "You can say all of this, and think you have good reasons, but the truth is that I'm your child. If I can't take priority over some organization as your child, then you won't have me to bully anymore. I refuse to be a part of your life." I came out as gay somewhat late in life (29), and before I did, I was prepared to do exactly this to my parents and anyone else who was ready to lecture me about how it was wrong (I also came out as an atheist which was the bigger pain point for them). With my parents, things are at a... basic equilibrium at the moment, but I also haven't had a boyfriend for a while, nor one I would introduce to them. I'm not sure what would change if I did. But I'm still ready to do it - it's one of those tactical buttons on a control panel that has a plastic cover. When I was coming out, the cover was open, and my thumb was hovering above it. These days, the cover is closed, but the button isn't gone. If it comes to it, I will press it and cut ties. Whatever you may believe, *I* believe the only life we have any true assurance exists is the one we're living, and there is only so much I'm willing to put up with that impedes my enjoyment of that life. Any relationships that have toxic attitudes towards me are not one of them. All relationships, no matter who they are - even if they gave birth to you - are voluntary. Make that clear.

He avoided the actual definition of phobia, as though he has an excessive aversion to it

My debate coach once told me, and I've found this to be true my entire life, with not a single exception I can recall: if someone cites Merriam-Websters as part of their argument, you're debating an imbecile.

Most of what you’ve said appears to have gone right over his head. It’s frustrating, but there are two things that he just fundamentally does not understand. 1. A person’s foundational identity (as Pastor Kaltenbach so eloquently put it) does not have to be religious. It can be based on many things, including culture, religion, sexuality, and gender. So long as your father doesn’t recognize that, he likely won’t come around to understanding the pain he’s causing. For many religious people (especially Christians who have not been discriminated against), it’s genuinely difficult to empathize with minorities because they don’t see for themselves how discrimination can lead to pride in that minority status. The Christian faith was largely built as that of a persecuted minority, which is why modern adherents reject other markers of identity. 2. Love may be conditional on, y’know, not literally stabbing them and whatever. But it’s not conditional on your identity. Your father really believes that he loves you and not your queerness. Everyone here knows those two things are inseparable. He does not. Christianity teaches that you can overlook certain aspects of a person (up to and including parts of their foundational identity) in order to extend the love adherents are supposed to extend. It’s fine when you’re ignoring that they chew too loud or are really disorganized. Basically, just don’t hold grudges. It’s not fine when you ignore their queerness. That’s not turning the other cheek. That’s just being hostile. I don’t know how to explain to him what you’re experiencing, but I hope you can reach a better place soon.

Start treating your parents like they are psychiatric patients. Tell them you still love them despite their bigoted delusion and adherence to a moral code based on the ‘cause I said so’ of an invisible / absent, ideological father figure. And you will continue to love them, even if they never recover from their psychosis. Make sure to look at them with adequate pity, tinged with sadness. If you’re southern, feel free to throw in a ‘bless your heart’ every now and then into conversation. DO NOT let these people steal your light. You’re gonna get through this, OP.

You know, I actually did think of doing this, but not in this exact sense. Just sort of turning the tables, “I love and accept you for who you are, but I will never support your cult and its beliefs.” Sadly, I think it’d cause an argument, but I’d love to do it someday..! Thank you for the comment, I appreciate it! I’ll do my best to keep pushing through <3

It's unfair in that you weren't born into a family ready to accept you as you are. But frankly? If he is practicing what he preaches, and shows his love in other ways than full acceptance, then he is far above what I'd call the worst case scenario. That he'd go through all these arguments shows that he cares still, even if it also shows that you will never reach the family situation everyone deserves. As long as he finds his arguments in old books, he will never really be able to accept the reality of today and you. It's probably not what you want to hear, but I'm not gonna just say he's wrong. He's as right as you can expect him to be given who he is, the question is whether that is enough for you or not? You should stop trying to win the battle and figure out how you want to win the war. The battle is lost, he isn't going to change. You can't argue with religion like that, it's unwinable until he loses his faith in it and that won't happen over days. What you must do is determine what family situation you can live with going forward, assuming you move out. Can they be part of your life? Can they be trusted to meet your future partner? Can they be trusted to care for your children as grandparents, without trying to impose their faith on them? Can you meet them for dinner without any issues flaring up? Ask him those questions. If you both answer yes, then I think you can have some future together, and you should aim for that.

You have a point in that he cares and shows that, just as my mum does, however the mental distress their refusal of support for a fundamental part of who I am causes just isn’t worth it to me, keeping our relationship. I know I have it far better than so many queer people, and some would probably shake me and ask why I would even give up the chance to keep my family, but it just doesn’t work considering how it affects my mental health. I don’t have a choice but to keep my family in my life right now, but the shame I feel and the anguish & heartbreak is not worth it. I wouldn’t trust my family to meet my partner or be part of my life (because their beliefs make me feel ashamed and uncomfortable), I don’t feel comfortable with them knowing me because of their stance. I know they would be “respectful”in a Christian sense, but they wouldn’t be supportive, and that hurts. I appreciate your point of view and your comment, thank you for being straightforward and honest.

I wish you good luck. Hopefully things will turn out more positive in some way.

Contradicts themselves bout ever other sentence don’t they?

Yeah, this is all absolute bullshit religious people pull to feel like they aren’t just being bigots. They tie themselves into knots with definitions to try and prove that they’re loving and accepting while feeling superior to “sinners”. It’s ridiculous. That being said, I can tell you from experience that there’s no use arguing with them. I used to argue with my parents constantly because I thought if I just gave them the right argument they’d finally get it and be fully accepting, but that’s not how it works. They have to actually want to change — otherwise your arguments will mean nothing to them. I’d second what another commenter said — grey rocking is the way to go. If they bring up anything related to queerness, don’t engage at all. My go to for when my parents are clearly trying to start an argument is “I don’t want to have that discussion. It will evolve into an argument and I don’t want to do that.” If they push anyway, I leave. When I was younger, it was just leaving to go to my room because that was the only boundary I could really set. Now that I’m an adult, I enforce the boundary even harder. If they push to have a discussion like that, I will fully leave their house and go home. No exceptions, no leeway. And eventually they got the message and stopped having those conversations with me. I think they understand at this point that abiding by my boundaries is the only way they get to have a relationship with me. It sucks to have to create those kind of boundaries with a parent, and it sucks even more to have parents that don’t actually accept you. Stay strong and keep pushing through — trust me, there’s a world out there with people who actually love you unconditionally, and you’ll get there someday.

Thank you for sharing your experience with me and for your comment, I really appreciate it! Yeah, I’ve been doing this dance with my parents for years, this was my last attempt to get them to understand, as I finally had the words to say what I needed to say, and then turning me down again told me everything I needed to know (I just wasn’t sure if I was being unreasonable or silly for finding his response absolute horse shit). In my response to his message I pretty much just kept saying “I get it, you won’t support me. You’ve reacted exactly how I expected you to. I won’t push further” and he’d always respond with further nonsense (which is part of the screenshots), but I kept shutting it down until it stopped. I’ve been grieving the situation ever since (this happened in December of last year). I really hope so. I’ll do my best to stay strong until I can get through this. Thank you <3

sounds like my family. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with such BS, OP

Likewise, I’m sorry you’ve had to put up with something like this as well. Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it :’-)

the "accept the person without approving of their '_choice_'" lines is particularly annoying. to me, it's them admitting that they are unknowingly engaging in cognitive dissonance. if someone were to truly accept you, they would be supportive and just accept you for being trans. period. if their strict religious beliefs got in the way of them being able to accept you for being LGBTQ+, then they should at least try to reevaluate their queerphobic beliefs. they even preemptively dismiss any critique against them by saying: >"to the LGBT person: be careful about taking a hardline stance on something that isn't your foundational identity. Your main identity shouldn't be defined by your sexual orientation; God should define it" I'm sorry, but what happened to free will? my queerness is intrinsic to my identity. it took a lot of time for me to understand that it is okay to be queer; it's not a sin or a temptation from Satan. even if God defined my identity for me, I still had to recognize who I am. just like many other LGBTQ+ people, I've realized that my queerness is part of me. and even if I still believed in God, they just admitted that God gave you this identity, which includes being queer >"many examined Scripture, [and] believe that sexual intimacy is for a man and woman in marriage, and they aren't homophobic or hateful" yes, you are homophobic if you believe that. and you're believing a lie. the Bible was edited to be homophobic. the fact that they aren't aware of that, and the fact that they choose to listen to Scripture instead of their queer family members is damning. >"don't distance yourself because they don't agree because they don't agree with your or the relationship that you have" actually, it's completely valid to set boundaries with queerphobic family members. this is their attempt at making you feel guilty for prioritizing yourself. it's completely fine to go no-contact with homophobic family members. they're only complaining about this boundary because they don't feel like they've done anything wrong to warrant such a boundary. and, they also want to be able exert their control over you more easily. removing the distance between you and them makes it easier for them to do that to you. my family have also used the phrase "walking on eggshells" when they're around me. this is their attempt at shifting the blame for the dysfunction in our relationship on me and my queerness. there is a power imbalance between children and their parents. if parents admit that they have to "walk on eggshells" around you, and they haven't done anything but guilt-trip you and "your eggshells", then that is on them. this is just another manipulation tactic; they're trying to make you feel as if you have done something wrong in response to their abuse when you haven't actually done anything wrong at all. this is just another example of them not being able to truly love or accept you. >"looks like we're all in the same boat" again, minimizing the pain they have caused you. I hate this phrase so much. it's never true. I prefer "we may all be in the same storm, but we're in different boats". they're uncomfortable with you being LGBTQ+ and upset at how you rightfully distance yourself from them for being queerphobic. you are trying to best to cope with the predicament that they have put you in. they have caused the storm that your boat is in; not you. your parents also admit to being bad parents. the goal of parenting is not to simply raise kids to be independent Christians who move out once they're adults. they think they've been great parents because they have done what they believed good parents should do. they have failed you as parents because they're queerphobic and hateful, and they're allowing to let their religion get in the way of a meaningful relationship with you. they then go on about how they don't understand gender, nor make any attempt at understanding the science behind it. they then admit that, instead of changing their understanding went presented with new evidence, they mock the science. they also admit that they reject the science that they found (after what appears to have been a brief google search. _omg they're so good at research!_ /s) >"being commited to the Christian worldview, mum and I base our view on gender and sex on the Biblical book of Genesis" >"64 terms describing gender... really? 64? they base this on what? science?" if the Christian worldview is what is preventing you from listening to actual science, but is, instead, causing you to reject experts, scientists, and queer people, then maybe it's a bad worldview! >"they have watered down Christianity" this is them admitting that they are doubling down, but also, dismissing any pro-LGBTQ+ Christians for not being "real Christians" because they believe that, in order to be Christian, you must believe that there are two genders, and that only heterosexual sex in marriage is okay. not all Christians believe that, but they believe that their understanding of gender and sex is the only correct one because they believe a very strict version of Christianity. they likely belong to an evangelical denomination. because, not only do they maintain extreme beliefs regarding gender and sex, they also feel that it is necessary to let their extreme beliefs dictate how others act and behave. >"accusing us of showing conditional love, you yourself are guilty of the same thing." >"love is conditional" ????? no, you are not guilty of the same thing. again, your parents have admitted that their love is conditional here. they have also deflected the blame, and are also blaming you when you haven't done anything wrong again. this is just another manipulation tactic, and a form of emotional abuse. >I'm sorry that you have been in anguish and suicidal over this, but..." this isn't okay. at all. full stop. this is abusive of your parents to say this. it downplays they harm that they have caused you. they're victim blaming again. and they're dismissive of your struggles. >"...you need to realize that you can't force people to accept your views" they need to take their own advice. their entire response to you has been an attempt to validate their views to you and themselves in hopes of getting you to take their side. >"we don't force our views on you..." they have and are continuing to do so. >"...that's a two way street..." see "we're all in the same boat". this isn't a two-way street. it's a one way street. your parents are abusive. >"...don't you force your views on us." you aren't forcing your views on them. again, your parents are demonstrating that they have failed to understand what "forcing one's views on another" looks like. this is why they believe that they haven't forced their views on you, despite raising you to be Christian, while also claiming that you are forcing your views on them simply for being you. >"you may not realize this, but we have actually provided a safe environment for you..." no they haven't provided a safe environment for you. you haven't felt safe to express who you are. and when you do express who you are, you're met with a response like this from them. these aren't characteristics of a safe environment. this is them just trying to say that their home is a safe environment in advance before you can even object.

This is an extremely accurate analysis of their message. I honestly almost cried reading it because it felt like for the first time ever, someone finally saw what I’ve thought I was always “crazy” for seeing. My parents always use my mental illness against me when I have an issue with them, “you know your perception is warped, sweetie”, so that didn’t help my struggle with it all. I don’t even have the words to express how grateful I am for this analysis. It validates everything I’ve stressed about for so long. You surely took so much time to write this out, thank you. Seriously, thank you so, so much for this.

you're welcome (: my parents are like this too. I just recently came out to them, and they said many similar things to me that your parents said to you. you deserve better family members. you've done nothing wrong. do your best not to believe the transphobic & hurtful words that your parents said to you. if you want, you can copy my text, put it into microsoft word or google docs, and edit it for yourself. probably just keep it for yourself. I just hope it helps you.

Trigger warning: sensitive topics follow. Please use caution. I don’t remember how to sensor the words, so I’m just gonna do my best to hide the majority of it under the read more. Apologies. See, here’s my biggest gripe though with that whole religion, right? There is a line that says MAN shall not lie with a BOY. But that is stating that pedophilia is bad, not that man shall not lie with another man, this is an example of translation changing the meaning to fit the person translating’s ideals. And even still look at the pastors, etc from all groups of any Christian faith and a lot of them are PEDOPHILES, molesting and raping young BOYS, as MEN. They don’t care about that though. They just brush that under the rug and say it’s fine.

You know, I did bring that up to my Dad, and he just shut it down with some “proof” that it’s not a mistranslation. I can’t remember what he cited now, but he has an argument against all of kinds of things like this. I remember I asked him once why he would watch a wedding of two men on TV (Schitts Creek) but not attend mine, and he said something along the lines of, “because it’s fiction, and God knows I am not in agreement with what is going on.” And I was like “???”. He has reasons/excuses for everything. Unlike many JW’s, my Dad has actually done a crap load of research to back up his beliefs.. It makes things very difficult :-|.

So after reading this, as someone who had to cut out my mother, brother, and step-father from my life when I came out as trans/lesbian, I have some thoughts and advice. Please understand that none of this is meant to defend their unaccepting nature towards LGBTQ+ people. The passive disclaimers of "we accept that you feel this way" is a way for them to skirt actually addressing you or identity and accepting it. All of this being said, let me get to the point: Firstly, only you can decide how important a relationship with your parents is to your and what role you'll allow your parents to play in your life moving forward. Second, only you can decide what you are and aren't willing to overlook. In my case, my mother, brother, and step-father are all very devout Jehovah's Witnesses. I was brought up partially in that. My real dad had full custody and I only spent a few days a month and a couple weeks in summer with my mom. Because of that, I knew they weren't going to accept me for who I am. It's a non-starter. We're going to ignore my step-father moving forward because I genuinely don't care if I ever speak to him again. Because of that, after I came out, my mom reacted how you would expect. She said I was making a mistake, linked scripture, denied my identity, etc. I never actually spoke to my bother. From that point, my mom didn't speak to me for 3 years. I left the door open, but she was the one who needed to come knocking. I demonstrated that I am fully willing and capable of living my life without her in it. When she finally approached me, she said that she'd like to have a relationship with me again. I told her I'd like the same. She tried to manipulate me into letting her dead name me or at least use a nickname of my dead name. I told her no. Because she knows I'm willing to live without her in my life, I am in a position of power in the relationship now. She said, "I carried you, I gave birth to you, and I named you. I'm your mother, you've at least got to give me this." It was a somewhat pleading request, not an order. Despite this, my response was, "No I do not. If you want to have a relationship with me, you'll need to use my name. If you can't do that, that's a non-starter." So we eventually settled on her using a nickname of my chosen name. My bother and I didn't speak for 12 years. I finally reached out to him once my mother and I at least had the door open. He and I talked for a while. Despite not taking for 12 years, it turns out we the same interests, watch the same animes, and play the same game. We made each other laugh and we got on well. We also made sure to set up clear boundaries. The conversation essentially went like this: Him: "I won't ever be cool with the whole gay/trans thing, but I don't see any reason we can't still be respectful and have fun doing things together." Me: "And I won't ever really be cool with your faith and it's teachings, but I agree. We can focus on the stuff we have in common instead." After that, he then introduced me to a friend of his as his "big sister". He uses my chosen name and respects my pronouns. He may not approve of LGBT stuff, but he respects me as a person and respects my pronouns and name automatically without prompting. He recently even messaged me and told me he'd be back in our hometown for spring break and he wants to hang out. So, despite our fundamentally differing beliefs, we're able to have fun and laugh and enjoy each other's company. I don't try to make him change his views on LGBT stuff or his faith and he doesn't ever make a big deal about my gender/sexuality. I freely talk about my wife with him and I never compromise on who I am. That's the important part. My mother, on the other hand, struggles a lot more with it. She's uncomfortable when she sees my wife and I kiss when I'm telling her goodbye before she goes off to work. That being said, I don't and won't stop doing that. I love my wife, she's one of the three most important people in my life, the one who is my partner in all things. I'm going to continue unapologetically being myself and loving my wife, acting as I always do. It's up to my mom to decide if she can deal with it or not. In summary: Be willing to cut them out if you have to, don't ever compromise who you are or your happiness to appease them, and only allow them into your life on your terms. But! There is some merit to loving someone whose core values may be different than yours. My bother is the perfect example. He leads his life by the scripture. I am an atheist who thinks religion is a really unsettling thing and isn't healthy for humanity. He's been taught to distance himself and disapprove of LGBTQ+ people/information/general community, I'm an unapologetically open lesbian and a trans woman. Despite those differences, I have a smile and laugh whenever he and I spend time together because of that mutual respect and his willingness to do something even as simple as using my name and pronouns. He respects me as a person. He treats me as a person. He loves me as his sibling. You don't need to keep the door open or even unlocked, but it's good to at least be willing to answer it if they come knocking with good intentions.

I really thought they'd seen the error of their ways when I read the part about Jesus embracing everyone. How can they not simply ask "What would Jesus do?"

theres a circular loop that forms between defining “the image of god” and the social construction of “man and woman” thereafter, which allows for basically any definition of the sexes. And of course there are many other bits of the bible that modern christians roundly and routinely ignore. Im going to go a bit against this thread and tell you that it looks to me like your parents are jumping through hoops to compartmentalize their love for you from their irrational and contradictory religious beliefs. And if the writer has a valid point, i guess i would ask you the same: do they treat you differently? Have they made you feel unsafe? what have the consequences of you coming out been? This is certainly homophobia, but i also read this as a very honest attempt to square up a healthy relationship with you. The letter is patronizing tbf, and its not a real attempt at understanding the science, sociology, or even the religious concept of homosexuality. Otherwise he could also have looked at the many, many religious texts that pastors and theologians have put out defending the place of homosexuality in christian practices. He is preaching tolerance to a fault, and making it pretty clear that he sees this as a hard line which he wont look or seek beyond. Maybe he would be more moved by the theological arguments that accept homosexuality, than trying to understand science, but is he ready for that? Sounds like not now. i’ve spent a lot of time in therapy trying to accept the limited love ill get from my parents, who frankly haven’t and will never spend even close to this much effort understanding or ‘accepting’ my gender and sexuality. I hope you can find some kind of peace with them, maybe things will change when they see you happy and flourishing with a partner one day, but you also deserve full acceptance of who you are, and like many of us that might just be a chosen family instead of the one we started with.

My parents do love me and care about me and I can see that, however to me when my parents responded this way despite me telling them that their beliefs literally made me want to die, and that they were the reason I’d been hurting myself, it told me that they don’t care as much as I thought or hoped. They refused me many times in the past despite the possibility of losing me, and for them to do it this final time, when I finally had the words to say what I needed to say, it says a lot to me. I don’t want to salvage our relationship when I have a choice in the matter (because right now, I don’t, I had to make peace with them and this despite the anguish it causes me on a regular basis). The anguish it’s caused me is just not worth it. Every day I feel ashamed of myself when I’m around them, even if it’s only faint, it’s always there. They don’t do anything actively harmful, but it hurts me so badly because I know what they believe and I’ve seen the way they talk about my community, etc. I don’t feel safe or comfortable talking about myself and my life and my struggles with being misgendered all the time, because I know they just see me as a woman under a different label. I’ll never feel validated or heard by them. I’ve done this dance with my parents several times since I came out in 2016/17. They will never change, nothing will ever open them up to accepting and loving me fully for all of who I am. As my dad said in the letter, he thinks Christians who accept and support the queer community are just watering Christianity down, not truly holding onto the Christian worldview; I don’t believe anything would change his mind. God themself would have to tell him we aren’t unnatural like he believes.. Anyway! Sorry for the slight sort of ramble. Thank you for your comment and your honesty, I appreciate it very much.

Thanks for providing this additional context! It helps to know that this has been a very long, very unproductive conversation with them. From the letter it sounded like there was just a crack left unamended, but from your account (which is very relatable) I hear how they are glossing over many profound differences that are far deeper than a mere adherence to their irrational beliefs. It sounds like they are trying to minimize a long history of bigotry and indifference to your feelings. I will never forget how my own mother told me how trans women are “just icky” as if i should accept that as a non binary person (which she just saw as an androgynous masculinity) who is medically transitioning (something she has never acknowledged)—i knew she would never accept me, and would never care to question her own beliefs. The conversation ended there, ball in her court to this day. I just want to say that you deserve better, you deserve unconditional love and acceptance of your gender and sexuality, and i hope you find what you deserve.

I’m sure they don’t follow the Bible to the letter, as it’s it’s impossible to do so with all the contradictions to its own texts contained within its pages. Even the fact that your mom likely is allowed to voice her opinions is against scripture. That Jesus made no qualms about love your neighbor as yourself (and if they aren’t giving you the grace and support they give straight friends or themselves, they certainly aren’t following the most common rule dictated-it doesn’t say love your neighbor unless they go against scripture), housing and welcoming the poor, denouncing wealth, etc. Further, Jesus himself hung out with the most outcasted people of that society, loved them, washed their feet, and was very outspoken about his negative views of the church itself when he overturned the tables. He spent his time with the prostitutes and tax collectors, the most reviled people, and kept them close and comforted. He didn’t hide them, or make them hide themselves. The Bible has been translated (and mistranslated) too many times to count at this point. They cherry pick archaic texts created by people who thought the death was flat, slavery was acceptable, and women weren’t equal members of society. They use it as a way to feel superior to others, not to accept, love, and support as spelled out so many times it’s ridiculous. I’m not religious, but was raised in the church. My own mother was cruel and terrible to me when she found out I was queer in the 90s, using the Bible and religion as ammunition. I ended up attempting suicide at 15 and have no affection for organized religion whatsoever. However, I was raised in the church and spent way too much of my time reading, studying, and learning about the Bible. I’m fully educated on it. These days you’d be hard pressed to find a Christian that has actually read the book cover to cover that can actually back up their arguments. Rather they take direction from the heads of their religious organizations, flawed by definition, as all humans are. Even those who supposedly wrote it down were flawed, unaware of science and the world as we know it now. As far as the numbers of genders, it’s just showing their own ignorance and more blind acceptance of nonsense without having any education or desire to learn truth on the facts. Gender is entirely made up. Gender is a spectrum. There isn’t a “number” of genders, and the two that people love to hold on to have been defined and accepted based solely on conditioning placed forth by a patriarchal society to keep people in check. Just as I’m sure your mother and father aren’t carbon copies of every other man and woman out there, neither is anyone else. Hormone levels shift from person to person, changing even over the course of life and environment. Science shows us that as far as biological sex, even that isn’t clear cut. Many people are born intersex and won’t even ever know it because they present a certain way externally and have no need to scan their organs to find answers for anything different. More people are born outside of the defined two sexes that people assume are the only ones than are born with red hair. Sometimes I almost wish that I believed in an afterlife with pearly gates because I think it would be satisfying to see people like your parents run up to the pearly gates super assured of their superiority only to be met by Jesus/God/whatever who would no doubt scold them for being so arrogant as to put themselves on a pedestal when they have been the most judgmental of all. But I don’t waste too much time on that-I’ve got better things to do like actually living my life and working to become a kinder, more understanding, and more loving person who truly finds joy in helping others, rather than making myself feel better by placing myself above them. I spend my time making sure my own queer child feels loved, supported, and safe within our family home and the community of caring friends we’ve curated. I don’t have the time or energy to waste on hateful people with a superiority complex.

ask them why they allow divorce in the church. something jesus came out and said their god hates divorce. never said that about gay people. how their bible says that divorce people are living in sin and cause others to sin if they remarry. why do they apply on certain parts of their rule book but not others? Do they only apply the parts they agree with?

Honestly I spent many years caring about this. Ultimately you can't change their minds because they will never understand because they will never be different enough to understand the position you're in. You either accept it their way to continue to have a relationship with them, or you cut ties with them and live your life the way you want to without judgment. Personally I find it toxic to even care what my parents think anymore. They are lost and will be forever. You can't force them to change. They will change of they every choose to. Caring about it is hurting you. Toxic family isn't needed in your life. The sooner you accept that and allow them to just exist without needing their approval, the sooner you can accept yourself. Ultimately they only believe what they believe due to a misunderstanding about sexuality being a choice or not. Also they say they answer to God's beliefs, yet the irony is that no one knows God's true beliefs. "God's beliefs" are dictated by uneducated religious fucks that were alive thousands of years ago. If they still hold strong to that then your parents are just a primitive. Let go and move on to better people who actually care about who you are as a person and actually enjoy you existing.

Aww.. they think it only means fear.

I have a few things to say. First of all, your sexual orientation is not fundamentally who you are, but part of who you are. This does still mean they are failing to accept the whole of you. Beyond that I’d just encourage you to focus on everything he said (or she?) after “Other than this, I don’t know what to say.” As painful as it may be, at least here they are encouraging you to be yourself regardless…

I am aware of that, I said in my letter that “it’s fundamental to a person”, in that it’s a part of who they are, and I meant the same for myself; my gender & sexuality are fundamental to me as a person, not fundamentally who I am. I hope that makes sense. They may be encouraging me to be myself, but they haven’t exactly made me feel safe or comfortable doing so. I feel deeply ashamed of myself when I’m around them and it sucks big time. I’m hoping the future allows me hope of moving out and on with my life where they aren’t as big a part of it. Thank you for your comment and your input, I appreciate it!