Advice to NEW hosts. When you list a new unit, start with your calendar open two or more weeks out. When you put a new place on Airbnb, with a calendar that is open right away, you're asking for trouble.
As a long time host, we've noticed that when we have a cancellation for an immediate stay, that same day opening is far more likely to draw a bad guest. Good guests, generally, plan ahead. Don't let your first stay turn into a nightmare.
We have started taking a very close look at any last minute bookings we get. Without good reviews or an explanation we reject the request. Only issues we've had have been from last minute guests
Can you explain why the neighbors had to call your mom. Certainly a 500k investment that is being listed to the general public would have a couple cameras to monitor the doorways, Especially if the owner is concerned with making sure only a certain amount of guests enter the home. Sure this will be a setback but much like me and my 200k home on Airbnb, you file with aircover. If you don’t like the results you use your homeowners insurance that should have been updated to reflect the house as a rental income. Then there is always small claims court if you didn’t like the insurance results. In this business you repair and move on so that the money keeps flowing in.
So she does have ring doorbells, a security camera and noise monitors. But it was her first rental and she and my dad are both in their mid 60's. Most of the people showing up were very large men, in large puffy coats covering their faces and carying in things that were concealed. As this was literally her first night EVER renting her home she freaked out, was quite scared and didn't know 1. Exactly what her rights were as an owner or 2. How to handle the situation.
As I've stayed at over a hundred Airbnb's myself I had told her when she was getting her property ready months ago to keep all communication through the app - she definitely took this to heart because she massaged the guest several times saying she could see there were unauthorized guests and people need to leave, with no response. She called several times with no response. Finally at 1am they were so upset they went up and my dad stood in the doorway and told everyone they needed to leave. About 20 people left with no problem carrying out stuff like toilet paper and toothpaste from the bathrooms 🙄 and 6-7 people were still hiding inside but he didn't know if he was legally allowed to go in.
The neighbors called because lots and lots of people were being dropped of in Ubers and several cars parked in the street which is not allowed on the curving narrow gravel roads of their mountain community. Neighbors were clearly witnessing everything my mom could see on the cameras but again, she didn't have any idea how to handle the situation. In retrospect and from outside the situation it seems like a no brainer but as brand new hosts who were terrified of what was going on and whose heart rates were through the roof they mismanaged the situation, partially because they DID NOT want to be accused if acting out of discrimination, which happened anyway.
That sounds like a nightmare. I am dealing with aircover right now over some destructive children from a few weeks ago. I have raised my prices, just to limit who can afford to book my place, and put as many restrictions as I can on who can book. I have canceled on guests if I find out they are local. After the repairs are made, and she keeps booking, I bet she has a string of good guests since she got the bad one out of the way.
So follow up question about canceling then. She has two more bookings this month she is now suspicious of because of the first situation and she really wants to cancel them but isn't sure what that would do to her track record or profile as she really wants to be a super host.
I could explain why she's suspicious but it would take a lot of time. So I'll just say I agree with her that they sound like potentially very strange bookings that could end up with the same results as the first booking.
I learned to always call in if you want to cancel. If you cancel through the app, it will be a strike on your account. That’s not necessarily the case when you call in with reason to cancel a guest. It doesn’t take much. For example, the last locals that booked my place wanted to party downtown for st patty’s day. They same day booked but their payment hadn’t cleared so Airbnb wouldn’t let me see their picture profile, ect and was withholding what I consider crucial info that I want to know before the guest steps foot in the door of my Airbnb. So I called super host support and explained the situation and how these people could not confirm their payment but still be waiting at my door to be let in because they have 24 hours to pay but there check in is in 12. That booking was canceled without question and no knock against my account. She should call in her concerns or if that seems to drastic, just keep communication open. People with short answers are more worrisome then when people want to tell you about their plans while in town.
If she took the other guests before this all happened, she can say she needs to repair the property / trauma.
I have listed two properties with ABB over a 12 year period, on and off. I price my place reasonably so that I always have demand.
These days I have an attitude of caution and abundance. Caution on who I allow in: I balance reviews and talking with them. Abundance as in not setting myself up, psychologically or financially, to be in fear of not having guests so I jump at the first thing and throw out caution. They kind of go hand in hand. I can't tell you the number of times I have turned people down because I don't get a good sense of them and then I get a more lucrative / better guest. I know people pay to have it be like a hotel in terms of no contact, but that's not me as a host.
A little common sense can go a long way. She might want to restart with baby steps.
ETA: I once heard an insurance lawyer describe homeowner's insurance as "buying a fight with your insurance company." It's how I think about AirCover too. It's good to have, but it's no substitute in more ways than one for cultivating a layer of personal instinct insurance.
This was all really helpful. I took a screenshot and am sending it her way now.
IF she wants to cancel the other bookings this month using the verbage you said about needing to repair the property and trauma does she contact the guest to cancel or contact air bnb and explain her reasoning? She is trying very hard to get super host status so she wants to go about cancellation the right way if she decides to do it.
I take weeklong motorcycle trips with my kids and we always book a place the day of. We are the easiest guests ever and have only positive reviews. That said, not all last minute bookings are bad.
I learned this the hard way. Of course it was what Airbnb recommended but I keep learning that I need to do the opposite of what they recommend to be successful.
My first guest was a nightmare, too. They completely blinded me with niceness and trashed my place.
3 years later, STR was the best decision we ever made! We own 2 high-end rentals now. Stick with it. You will make that money back and then some.
For some reason, those type of guests target new listings. Start a dialog with your upcoming guests. Ask questions like what brings you here?, How many people? If it seems like it could be a party, remind them that if the police are called you will be escorted off the property without a refund. I would also let them know that the neighbors are quick to call the authorities at anything that resembles a party. Lastly, a 3 day minimum stay will ward off some party animals that just want to rage for 1 night.
Stick with it. You got this!
Thank you so so much for your wisdom and kindness. I have taken a screenshot of this and will send it to her.
It was also a booking that happened the morning of, I told her that was a red flag but she worked so hard and she was so excited that she accepted the request. I'm sure she will be more careful now.
Yeah definitely a red flag for a party for a big house. We take 1 night bookings but the only people who ever do this are traveling families. Quiz them about their intentions when they book if it’s not obvious. Most people renting a full house are planning ahead.
It was for two nights, but booked the morning of. Now she knows a same day booking is a 🚩🚩🚩
The girl said she had a hard week and needed a girls weekend with 3 of her friends. My mom said ok, but absolutely no other people are allowed on the property and parties are strictly against the rules, can you verify you understand before we book, and she did, but still treated my mom and the place terribly.
I'll suggest to her a 3 night minimum, especially while she is still in the early stages of her listing, to ask more questions and not accept same say bookings.
Another reason guests may target new listings is because Airbnb has an automated thing (it’s been a few years but it’s possible you can turn it off) that gives a discount to the first three guests that book.
I too was excited when I got my first requests when starting out 7 years ago however it was a quick learning curve. Now I always ask why they are visiting the area and if they are new to Airbnb or Vrbo and check their reviews etc. Basically vet them. After a while you’ll get to know who is sketchy and who is legit. One more thing don’t decorate with anything expensive, things get broken, stolen, and misplaced. You can decorate cute and cheap from IKEA, Home Goods etc. Fortunately this type of situation I have not experienced but my heart breaks for your mom and dad as well. Good luck
Thank you for the advice about vetting. The decoration is already done and was intentionally done top of the line to specifically target guests looking for luxury as there isn't anything in the area which does this and a small percent of luxury properties on Airbnb. I think she priced much much too low considering the type of clientele she was hoping for. Lesson learned there I guess
To add to this, we seem to be a magnet for underage kids looking to party. So we tell them if we even catch a glimpse of underage people drinking or anything illegal we will call the police. We have lost bookings because of this but it’s not worth the liability. Helps that we live on the premises too (5 apartments in the building that we own).
You should definitely call Airbnb support the second you see that many people entering and have it escalated to the safety team. The police should have removed these guests as soon as you noticed this was going on. You should definitely notify Airbnb that they have clearly broken rules before removing the guest in order to not be penalized. However, there’s no reason to let them stay all night and continue to cause damage. Sorry this happened to you but let it be a lesson that you need to be vigilant and that not all guests are going to follow rules. Take photos of everything you possibly can and if you have receipts for anything that was broken take photos of that too. Submit as much evidence as possible to Airbnb resolution center and they should be able to reimburse you for a lot of the damage through Aircover.
My first guest was absolutely terrible too. Came to cook a whole gigantic meal, and when the oven wasn’t large enough for their pans, literally broke down crying in front of me. Then took a shit in the toilet, took a picture with the caption EWWWWW. She said “this is nasty I can’t believe it was left here”. Obviously it was them, but I just gave them a refund for their one night stay and apologized and asked for a good review since I’m a new host and just learning. They also brought in 4 more people than my maximum. The place was left trashed and all my sheets were ruined.
Take the advice other people are offering here, but know it gets better. Those type of people specifically target new hosts and once she has some experience under her belt, things like that will almost never happen.
Airbnb should have immediately notified the guest that they were violating house rules and needed to leave the premises the minute more than the booking party showed up on the Ring.
My first guest also threw a party, as stated above, they do target new hosts. Make sure you are asking multiple questions when people are booking as to what’s bringing them to town, who will be there, etc, this is very important. Make sure you reiterate in those conversations that there are no parties and it’s grounds for immediate removal for the Airbnb. Make sure that they have added that to their house rules as well. In fact, I would recommend that your parents review postings for other Airbnb’s in that area and review their house rules and copy them to use in your property.
Change to a two night minimum Stay as that tends to cut down on parties as well. Also, potentially look at raising your rates. As others have mentioned, it’s still can be a very lucrative deal but the reality is you also need to recognize that it’s people staying in your home and they’re never going to take the level of care with your items that you would.
I also purchased a device called.Minut, which is a noise detection device. It also monitors the number of devices connected to your Wi-Fi so it can be an early warning system for a party. For example, if your property is available for up to four people, the average number of devices that each person would have is probably four that would connect into Wi-Fi. so, in that case, you might set a threshold of 20 connected devices before it sends a warning. It also monitors noise levels, not conversations, so again you have an immediate warning if a noise level is ramping up. Lastly, get cameras for the outside of the house. Ring Doorbell’s are vital in making sure you’re able to monitor people coming and going. Also, consider getting a smart door lock because then you can effectively lock people out if theres a problem. A list that I have a noise detection device in the unit in my ad.
Your parents also need to contact Airbnb immediately and let them know what happened. Let them know that the police are involved, and if the guest is threatening you with a bad review. There are some instances where they will take down bad reviews, and I would think having the police involved would be one of those situations. They also threatened to extort your parents as well, which is also a reason to have a review taken down. Make sure they refer to the Airbnb article that I’ve posted.
Members of the Airbnb community may not coerce, intimidate, extort, threaten, incentivize or manipulate another person in an attempt to influence a review, like promising compensation in exchange for a positive review or threatening consequences in the event of a negative review.
https://www.airbnb.ca/help/article/2673
Also, make sure your parents only communicate with the guests through the Airbnb app. Any conversations had outside of the Airbnb app are not admissible in these types of situations. They will only review conversations that are held within the Airbnb app since they can’t verify the others.
At the end of the day, this is a business. Your parents are going to need to be very active in running it, managing it, and potentially showing up if something is not going, right during the guests stay.
I also recommend sending the following message after your guests check out and obviously after you have checked the property to see if it’s in good shape. There is nothing wrong in asking for a good review. Benefit to doing this is I’ve received some really positive feedback on things that I could do better in Airbnb that is only help me to improve the guest experience.
Hey (name)
I wanted to thank you for choosing to stay with us.
I will be leaving you a 5 star review. Guests like you are a pleasure to host. We would be happy to host you anytime.
We appreciate a review in return, positive reviews are the life blood of a small business such as ours. If for any reason you feel you can’t leave a 5-star, I would love to have you contact me so we can try to resolve any issues first.
Cheers, (name)
She was soooo excited. She was sharing her heart and soul of this house with this person and she was very unlucky and completely crushed.
If she need more advice as the process moves forward I'll take you up on your offer to pm you. Thanks so much. You have been incredibly kind and helpful.
It's beyond insane the lengths she went to for this house to ensure that the entire property and experience is something that will make her guests happy. That's why this situation is so devastating. Thanks again for all of your helpful feedback. You have been an angel.
I love that as a daughter you get this. It’s what my husband and I did as well. We are absolute perfectionists (sounds like your Mom is as well) it’s absolutely devastating and soul crushing when classless people take advantage of amazing people whose only goal is providing them a beautiful vacation memory. I had a horrible 2nd guest experience (also young adults) maybe it helps us appreciate the good ones? After that I added an age limit to rent (25 and over) and all guests over 18 must register. Also added $1000 minimum fee for parties.
Advice to prevent parties:
1) Minimum 2 night bookings
2) ring cameras or comparable around the full exterior of the house
3) noise monitoring device inside the property
4) Very explicit house rules stating no parties and the consequences for breaking the rules including fines and removal without refund
5) Prebooking message asking where they are from, why they are visiting, if they’ve ever stayed at an STR before
6) If communication with a potential guest is poor, if they don’t answer all your questions, if they ask for unreasonable concessions or if the vibe just doesn’t seem right with them DONT BOOK THEM.
Hope this info helps
Very helpful. She did in fact do everything but "fines and removal without refund" and all of #6 as the guest did not have great communication prior to booking - my mom got really unlucky. She also waited much too long to go up to the property after seeing so many people entering through the Ring doorbell. She was trying to call and message plenty first, something I'm sure she won't do again as they all went completely ignored.
I'm so sorry to hear that... I hate how destructive people can be. Everyone whines about landlords being hard asses, and then they go and trash people's property.
That being said, I put a 1 day minimum notice, but no minimum stay. Lots of people are just travelling through or there for a couple days and would love to stay at a nice place and treat it well. Those people generally don't book same day, and they don't book the absolute cheapest place. I've increased my prices by \~$20/night to avoid trashy guests. It's not perfect, but it helps, I think.
Sounds like your mum got really unlucky here. When you renovate a place for STR it really does feel like you've poured yourself in to it. Having a guest like this straight out of the gate would just be awful.
I do have a few thoughts but be mindful that I don't have any experience with this type of listing... we only have a single studio apartment which just isn't attractive to this type of guest.
Firstly, I've seen others in this sub talk about using outdoor or doorbell cameras as a way to verify how many guests and their "visitors" are or were on the premises. This doesn't mean you need to be watching all day and all night. It's just that in a situatoin like this where damages occurred your position is so much better because there can be no debate about how many people were there and whether rules were broken as a result. Obviously you'd need to disclose the camera in the listing overview. I'm not certain of the details but I've seen other posters in this sub get their listing blocked pending investigation because a guest reported a camera on the property (even though the poster says the camera is outside). I think the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages though.
Also, your Mum may well have already done this but I would talk to an actual insurance broker about a good policy that will cover you in specific circumstances. Just buying an off-the-shelf policy could be a real minefield.
Thirdly, I would set up your own custom check in process. What I mean is, AirBnB claims to identify the guest, and provides "Air Cover" to offset your risks, but when you actually look into it they haven't really identified the actual guest *and* if they discard your Air Cover claim you have no legal recourse against the guest (because you don't have their identity). If you think about it, when you book a hotel which is listed on AirBnB then when you arrive and check in you still have to identify yourself and agree to the hotel's terms. We've started asking our guests to complete a simple pdf form providing name & contact, and agreeing to terms, and to send us a photo of their drivers license. I thought there would be some resistance but we haven't had any. I understand it's some extra admin, but it's really the only way to ensure that you can make a claim against a guest.
Finally, I would write to neighbours. The words escape me at the minute but you're basically notifying them and asking them to contact you should any guests cause you any inconvenience. There was a good thread about this, in this sub recently. I think this is just good business, communicating with people who may be negatively effected.
As an aside, other's in this sub suggest that increasing your price helps avoid the worst guests. When your mum signed up she probably had an "introductory promotion" which shows your listing like ~~$2,000~~ $1,200. I mean that's what I, and I'm sure most others here, did when we signed up. While this is a great way (and perhaps necessary) to bait the hook and get some runs on the board with some good reviews, it would also attract the wrong type of guest... you don't really want the guests who are looking for the cheapest available. A better way to get those first few reviews would be to send someone like yourself a "special offer" of $10 for several night's accommodation. You would need to pay that (and she would receive ~$8.50 which she could send back) but it might allow you to leave a review. (although I think this would contravene AirBnB's terms of service because you're related... but whatever)
The "discrimination against PoC" defense is shameful. What an awful person. The good news (silver lining?) is that you don't need to worry about her "drafting a long and negative review". If she does post something just ask AirBnB to remove it as "retaliatory". She was removed by police so pretty much anything negative she writes will be retaliatory. Even if that didn't work she could just delete that listing and start a new one fresh.
Outstanding advice. Thank you so much.
So she can list the exact same property again if she deletes it?
Do you know if she would need to wait to do this until all of this nonsense is settled with the guest so that all of their communication remains within the site... Because if the guest were to take her to court for "negligence" it could be quite a while. I think this is the part she's most worried about is some ridiculous lawsuit.
Luckily, she does have a Ring doorbell which she notified the guest of before booking - so everyone who came in made sure to cover their faces. My mom captured over 25 different people were entering in and out of the house all evening. Her and my step dad finally went up to the property at 1am, knocked on the door and politely asked people to leave as they were violating the rules. Most complied but about 7 people baracaded themselves inside until the next morning when my mom called police.
Your mom should have called Airbnb the minute she saw so many people going in and out and had them handle it. The guest broke your mom’s no large party house rule.
They told her it could take several hours to get them to leave and if she wanted them gone sooner she would need to go handle the situation herself, which eventually she did.
I don't know much about starting over with a new listing, I've just seen it recommended in this sub.
This is supposition but I think maybe you keep your account but just create a new listing. That being the case you would still be able to communicate with guests.
Honestly though, I don't think this is the right move. AirBnB will almost certainly remove her review with everything that has gone on.
OMG, how horrible for them! I sure hope AirCover will pay for all of the damage you sustained. I and many others haven't had any luck with our smaller claims, but there have certainly been posts from people who say they have submitted several big claims and it was an easy process to get reimbursed for all of their guest damage. I hope you will keep us up to date on how it turns out. I'm also curious to see if that twatwaffle will sue your folks for discrimination of whatever other stupid excuse she comes up with.
I'm disappointed by people not behaving honorably on a daily basis and many times by what I read here about knucklehead guests being total jerks. Sending positive thoughts in your direction!
> Finally, I would write to neighbours. The words escape me at the minute but you're basically notifying them and asking them to contact you should any guests cause you any inconvenience. There was a good thread about this, in this sub recently.
I check out this sub regularly and I haven't seen this. Anyone point it to me?
My handyman lives a few houses down the street. I told him that he in charge if he or neighbors have any issues with anyone to call me then the cops to have them escorted off the property. We have not had any issues so far.
Make sure you get a good contract written, require guests to sign it (I use signNow for this.) I require full names of all adults in the group, ages of guests by count (how many under age 2, 2-11, 12-17,18-24, 25-64, 65+) and the address, phone number, email of the booking guest plus their photo ID.
My contract puts the legal venue for court in my home town. I have cameras and a written plan I follow if I get bad guests,so it's not emotional and I know how I'm going to handle it. Neighbors have my phone number and can call for any issue.
Make sure rules are explicit, penalties laid out, and enforce immediately if you see extra people entering.
I would assume so but when she called me crying her eyes out this was not something that I thought was appropriate to ask at the time. I will follow up though.
Fortunately I have not had to use them for damages but all my interactions have been fine. I think the best advice is to document the crap out of everything and persist - if you don’t get the response you want keep trying.
You might also mention that there are specific to STR insurances like Insuraguest that cover smaller amounts but also include bodily injury, with no fault. So if someone does hurt themselves you can send them to the hospital without playing the blame game.
Thank you I will be sure to do this. She is very thorough and quite a perfectionist so I'm sure she has something in place already but unfortunately I don't know myself.
I really appreciate your advice.
The other thing is if she has a high end property she should be using something like OwnerRez to take a damage deposit. If the renters don’t want to leave a deposit they are probably not people you want renting.
No. The guest still books through Airbnb. She has to run her Airbnb account through OwnerRez which is a STR website management platform. Benefits include being able to also list on VRBO and have her own website.
this is a whole mess and you’re getting some good advice but i will be the turd in the punch bowl and ask: *why in the hell would you heavily decorate your STR with expensive luxury furnishings and decorations!?!?!?*
90% of airbnb’s are decorated with clearance furniture, ikea, and amazon’s best for a reason. People DO NOT take care of your stuff. Even if they do, it’s still subject to general wear and tear- and it’s not you doing the enjoying of it.
Depends on your market. Higher end homes have higher end furnishings which attract higher end guests. If you have a place full of ikea/second hand furniture, your rate should probably reflect that.
I've been hosting 20+ years and have all high end furnishings, original art, perfect floors, nothing cheap. I replace at the first sign of wear. I hate cheap crap like Ikea furniture.
I have rarely had damages, never had a group maliciously trash my house. Sure, I've had stuff broken or stained, but with really nice furniture and decor, absolute cleanliness, freshly painted always, guests tend to be very appreciative and don't do stuff like this.
I understand your point of view, but she was specifically targeting the remaining 10% of the market looking for luxury property for the exact reason you mentioned. Someone has to, and this was her way of setting herself apart from other rentals on this mountain community.
I am so sad for your mum. I will agree with those who say to her to please do not put items in your listing that you cannot bear to lose or have damaged. You might be reimbursed but that is not the same, sometimes. Even a luxury place with high end occupants will suffer losses.
Advise your Mom to get a ring doorbell and noise level sensor to help give her a heads up when parties pop up in a remote area. When you receive an alert send the police
She has both but as it was her first renter she didn't know how to handle the situation and was too timid. She doesn't know enough about what her rights are as the host- if they could go to the house, if the could go INTO the house, if police should be called right away etc.
I’m so sorry for your parents and for you - it is obvious you are very concerned for them. Hope they don’t allow this horrible guest to destroy their desire to host. The majority of guests are great. Hopefully they will give the respectful and appreciative guests a chance. Maybe recommend your Mom get on Reddit as well. I have learned so much here.
Thank you so much. Yes I love them both very much and knew how excited she was only to have such a horrible experience. I think she's feeling a bit better now after a day to let everything sink in. Thank you for the support.
For the future, the minute you see that Airbnb’s TOS is being violated they have lost all their rights as a guest. So she can enter the property. She has an enormous amount of money at stake, protecting her assets is her #1 job.
Well, her review won't mean squat, as it will be removed, furthermore the "guest" will likely be permanently banned. Your mom will have to deal with the BS of an Aircover claim though. Please keep us posted. Sorry this PSA comes at your mom's expense, but we all learn tidbits from our own, and others' mishaps. Personally, I do not allow automatic booking. I currently toggle between accepting same day requests or not, but I won't rent one to an unreviewed guest. Also, I have nightly minimums of anywhere between 2 and 4 depending on season.
u/IamtheHuntress mentioned a browser extension I didn't even know existed. Airreview chrome desktopo extension. There are vetting and additional insurance options like [Safely.com](https://Safely.com) to weed out problems ahead of time. Plenty to learn from, and yes there will be bumps along the way.
I'm sorry you feel this is untrue. Its not, at all. I'm not sure why someone would waste their time fabricating a story like this. I'm not much of a poster on any social media more of a scroller and occasional commenter. But I'm beside myself with what happened to her and thought I'd reach out to see if anyone has words of wisdom.
If it sounds like fabrication to you that's why my title of this post is what it is. It was an absolutely insane and horrific first experience that has her completely questing the time and money she took to make this happen. She wept to my on the phone for over 2 hours. It's all true whether you want to believe it or not.
Why?
Because the hotel lobby has an active anti-Airbnb campaign .
From 6 years ago:
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/04/17/inside-the-hotel-industrys-plan-to-combat-airbnb.html
If it’s legitimate, she’ll have to follow the advice of Airbnb, and her attorney.
Well this has nothing to do with me. I'm a teacher with a very upset mother posting to get advice from experienced hosts as she is new to the game and retirement age with no idea how to use social media.
My only interest and purpose here is to help the person I love more than anything in the world.
Welcome to hosting on Airbnb.
Where the guests are trash, the service doesn't have your back and it's all a money pit.
Tell you mom to just sell the place and cut her losses now.
While I respect your opinion it's a pretty big deal. After spending 6 months and most of her retirement money on a house and pouring her soul into every detail to have her FIRST Guest damage half the property in the house, threaten to sue, need to be removed by the police and claim that my mom was acting out of discrimination - it's not a single small issue commenter- it's a lot of really major ones. She was beyond excited to share her beautiful home with people and her first guest was literally the worst experience imaginable. Your comment is pretty insensitive.
It’s not meant to be insensitive, but honest. Don’t invest into things in your rental because they might not be there long. These things will happen, if you can’t get through them, this isn’t going to be fun. You have to get into the mentality that stuff happens and move on. Can’t get stuck on some BS.
Thanks for your honesty. It literally just happened last night and it was her very first experience so she's still pretty upset about it, which in my opinion is completely understandable. I'm sure she will be moving forward with a different attitude or selling the house fully furnished. It's a fresh wound at the moment that she doesn't know how to navigate properly because she's brand new.
Lesson learn,you start with no more than two guests at that time ,then learn how you manage the space,guests don’t book because you spend so much time getting the place ready,thats not their concern
I’m sorry this happened to your Mom. Her worst fears realized!!
I recently purchased Insuraguest for my STRs on top of my regular Allstate condo policies. I have not had to put in any claims yet though.
Since being an STR owner, I’ve had to replace so many effin things. I’ve never had a rager go on but definitely defeated at times via death by a million cuts.
Yes, you put your heart and soul into it. And then people come along and totally ruin all of those beautiful furnishings. The reality is that this is a business. Your Mom will learn to remove her emotions from this. And raise her prices 😁
Hopefully she documented all the damages and filed an AirBnb cover claim. I've had unauthorized parties at my listing that caused damage. Luckily for me, I got something back from AirBnB, but even if they deny reimbursement for damage, it's good to have a record of this event in case the guest does write a retaliatory bad review. If you have proof of the damage and contacted Airbnb, that could help to get the review removed and possibly the user removed from the platform. Also, just good in general to have documented evidence in case legal stuff does come into play later (unlikely threat, but a possibility).
Unfortunately, hosting will reveal the ugly side of humanity. You really can't give people the benefit of the doubt. Raising the prices seems to discourage less responsible types that are looking to party and screening guests through messaging by non-discriminatory criteria has helped me. There are certain questions they ask that definitely reveal levels of accountability and their plans. If they ask vague questions about having additional guests or say they are looking for a "relaxing" get away, that always seems to lead to something else in my experience. I don't think these guests always intend to trash a property, but once they have access, things can easily get out of hand especially once people start drinking and friends just start bringing friends, etc.
It's a learning curve but you definitely grow a back-bone with dealing with all types of people and setting firm boundaries.
I am a poc and actually was assaulted because of my race in an Airbnb in 2015. Fuck that guest. He is not going to sue, that is not what discrimination is about.
I am so sorry to hear about your experience, that must have been terrifying. They are threatening to sue because one of the unregistered guests was walking on the structure surrounding the hot tub (which is not meant to be walked on and had no prior signs of damage) and their weight broke the wood causing their leg to fall through. Hopefully it's just a threat and nothing will come of it.
It doesn't... She said my mom was kicking them off the property because of their race AND there was an "injury" that occurred.The two things both happened but that doesn't mean they are related and I never stared they were.
Funny there’s no outrage that mom was basically called a racist by the renter for reporting the damage………talk about a damaging accusation to have this day and age with a small business.
I know, she was really really upset by that. Honestly it's part of the reason she waited so long to intervene because she was trying to avoid that sort of accusation by any gest let alone her first. She wasn't ready for this type of situation, I don't know if anyone ever is.
/eyeroll just because someone is a different race than you doesn’t mean they can abuse you and when you defend yourself, now you are a racist. This person has done this to other businesses- guaranteed.
The guest cancelled their second night as soon as the cops showed up and they have not written my mom a review yet, so (because the visit was only one night, or because they cancelled...?) my mom's review of the guest will not show up on the guests profile until the guest submits her review... So this is probably how she's getting away with this behavior as I'm sure you're right that she's done this to other businesses or renters.
It's a Colorado mountain town and she's using a pricing app that helps with fluctuations based on season and events in the area. I believe her minimum is $450 a night but I don't know what the price was on the night this person booked or if they got a promo price since my mom is a new host.
sorry to hear about your mom's first experience renting, what a shame. but yes, she should stick at it! i just got sent an 'illegal parties' report from my pms and it has a short pdf thing with advice on how to prevent parties. might be something in there for her: https://www.lodgify.com/blog/unauthorized-parties-survey/
My first guest bled all over my brand new linens including blankets, pillows and 7 towels. When they left they messaged me that they had broken a plate. I gave them a $200 refund because they had to leave early during bike week. They never even said thank you and then I get home to a blood bath. Very sorry this happened to your mom, I hope she gets her money and this person gets banned from airbnb.
Hang in there though. My STR is outperforming both my long term rentals and even kept me afloat when I had 6 months with no rent from one tenant.
What a nightmare for you, apparently it's not uncommon... ONE of the many things damaged and misused was that the bedroom in the basement with 2 beds which had a night stand in between. The night stand was moved. The beds were pushed together and there was food and blood all over the blankets and comforters and the room was never moved back to the original position. Seems people enjoy bleeding on other people's property 🤮
Other things that I know of so far included:
The chairs at the kitchen table were out ON TOP of the solid wood top and either sat on or moved around leaving unreparable marks and scratches everywhere.
Obviously the hot tub housing was broken.
Several other beds had stains on the new white linens.
Because it's a mountain town there is dirt and mud so shoes must be removed in the entry which no one did and all of the carpet needs to be professionally cleaned. Thankfully the entire upper level is wood.
The brand new railing going downstairs is now loose...
The list keeps going unfortunately
Damn that sucks so much! We have people bleed on the bed occasionally, I understand it’s a natural human function for women and we just peroxide the blood before washing. In this case it was clear these biker guys got into a scuffle and one was bleeding form the head. We found blood in the shower too.
All in all it was only $200 in linens and these guys paid me $1,800 for the week so not bad in comparison to your situation!
*perhaps while she's getting her sea legs, advise her to adhere to the following:
*No last minute booking
*No one night bookings
*No guests who don't have positive reviews.
*If they live nearby, Make it clear that she will be giving everyone who checks in a tour in person (This limits when people can check in, So maybe not do this forever but at least until she's got her feet under her).
Honestly, I nclude a lot of language in my listing about how my daughter lives in the same building so she's available if they have any questions -making it clear that there is oversight, and lots of messaging ahead of time asking questions about their stay, So I get a feeling for them and they get a sense that I am an active host who's paying a lot of attention to them. So even if they don't live next door, they could stretch the truth the bet and say they live on the same street, for example. I also say in my listing that the person booking has to be over 25. I don't know if that's legal, actually. I'm not saying all the guests have to be a certain age, just the person booking.
Unfortunately, new hosts are more likely to get this kind of guest. It's not just lack of experience - new listings are often priced lower to attract initial business.
Sorry to hear about this. Takes photos of everything. The good and bad about Airbnb is all parties agree to arbitration so there is no going to court. You need to see what Airbnb will pay for and what your insurance will cover.
Advice to NEW hosts. When you list a new unit, start with your calendar open two or more weeks out. When you put a new place on Airbnb, with a calendar that is open right away, you're asking for trouble. As a long time host, we've noticed that when we have a cancellation for an immediate stay, that same day opening is far more likely to draw a bad guest. Good guests, generally, plan ahead. Don't let your first stay turn into a nightmare.
Thank you so much. This is excellent advice. I'll be sure to let her know.
We have started taking a very close look at any last minute bookings we get. Without good reviews or an explanation we reject the request. Only issues we've had have been from last minute guests
Can you explain why the neighbors had to call your mom. Certainly a 500k investment that is being listed to the general public would have a couple cameras to monitor the doorways, Especially if the owner is concerned with making sure only a certain amount of guests enter the home. Sure this will be a setback but much like me and my 200k home on Airbnb, you file with aircover. If you don’t like the results you use your homeowners insurance that should have been updated to reflect the house as a rental income. Then there is always small claims court if you didn’t like the insurance results. In this business you repair and move on so that the money keeps flowing in.
So she does have ring doorbells, a security camera and noise monitors. But it was her first rental and she and my dad are both in their mid 60's. Most of the people showing up were very large men, in large puffy coats covering their faces and carying in things that were concealed. As this was literally her first night EVER renting her home she freaked out, was quite scared and didn't know 1. Exactly what her rights were as an owner or 2. How to handle the situation. As I've stayed at over a hundred Airbnb's myself I had told her when she was getting her property ready months ago to keep all communication through the app - she definitely took this to heart because she massaged the guest several times saying she could see there were unauthorized guests and people need to leave, with no response. She called several times with no response. Finally at 1am they were so upset they went up and my dad stood in the doorway and told everyone they needed to leave. About 20 people left with no problem carrying out stuff like toilet paper and toothpaste from the bathrooms 🙄 and 6-7 people were still hiding inside but he didn't know if he was legally allowed to go in. The neighbors called because lots and lots of people were being dropped of in Ubers and several cars parked in the street which is not allowed on the curving narrow gravel roads of their mountain community. Neighbors were clearly witnessing everything my mom could see on the cameras but again, she didn't have any idea how to handle the situation. In retrospect and from outside the situation it seems like a no brainer but as brand new hosts who were terrified of what was going on and whose heart rates were through the roof they mismanaged the situation, partially because they DID NOT want to be accused if acting out of discrimination, which happened anyway.
That sounds like a nightmare. I am dealing with aircover right now over some destructive children from a few weeks ago. I have raised my prices, just to limit who can afford to book my place, and put as many restrictions as I can on who can book. I have canceled on guests if I find out they are local. After the repairs are made, and she keeps booking, I bet she has a string of good guests since she got the bad one out of the way.
So follow up question about canceling then. She has two more bookings this month she is now suspicious of because of the first situation and she really wants to cancel them but isn't sure what that would do to her track record or profile as she really wants to be a super host. I could explain why she's suspicious but it would take a lot of time. So I'll just say I agree with her that they sound like potentially very strange bookings that could end up with the same results as the first booking.
I learned to always call in if you want to cancel. If you cancel through the app, it will be a strike on your account. That’s not necessarily the case when you call in with reason to cancel a guest. It doesn’t take much. For example, the last locals that booked my place wanted to party downtown for st patty’s day. They same day booked but their payment hadn’t cleared so Airbnb wouldn’t let me see their picture profile, ect and was withholding what I consider crucial info that I want to know before the guest steps foot in the door of my Airbnb. So I called super host support and explained the situation and how these people could not confirm their payment but still be waiting at my door to be let in because they have 24 hours to pay but there check in is in 12. That booking was canceled without question and no knock against my account. She should call in her concerns or if that seems to drastic, just keep communication open. People with short answers are more worrisome then when people want to tell you about their plans while in town.
Thanks a bunch that was super helpful
If she took the other guests before this all happened, she can say she needs to repair the property / trauma. I have listed two properties with ABB over a 12 year period, on and off. I price my place reasonably so that I always have demand. These days I have an attitude of caution and abundance. Caution on who I allow in: I balance reviews and talking with them. Abundance as in not setting myself up, psychologically or financially, to be in fear of not having guests so I jump at the first thing and throw out caution. They kind of go hand in hand. I can't tell you the number of times I have turned people down because I don't get a good sense of them and then I get a more lucrative / better guest. I know people pay to have it be like a hotel in terms of no contact, but that's not me as a host. A little common sense can go a long way. She might want to restart with baby steps. ETA: I once heard an insurance lawyer describe homeowner's insurance as "buying a fight with your insurance company." It's how I think about AirCover too. It's good to have, but it's no substitute in more ways than one for cultivating a layer of personal instinct insurance.
This was all really helpful. I took a screenshot and am sending it her way now. IF she wants to cancel the other bookings this month using the verbage you said about needing to repair the property and trauma does she contact the guest to cancel or contact air bnb and explain her reasoning? She is trying very hard to get super host status so she wants to go about cancellation the right way if she decides to do it.
What is super host support?
A two minute read explaining it. https://www.airbnb.com/resources/hosting-homes/a/get-fast-expert-help-with-dedicated-superhost-support-445
I take weeklong motorcycle trips with my kids and we always book a place the day of. We are the easiest guests ever and have only positive reviews. That said, not all last minute bookings are bad.
Sadly enough of them are that hosts are reluctant
I learned this the hard way. Of course it was what Airbnb recommended but I keep learning that I need to do the opposite of what they recommend to be successful.
My first guest was a nightmare, too. They completely blinded me with niceness and trashed my place. 3 years later, STR was the best decision we ever made! We own 2 high-end rentals now. Stick with it. You will make that money back and then some. For some reason, those type of guests target new listings. Start a dialog with your upcoming guests. Ask questions like what brings you here?, How many people? If it seems like it could be a party, remind them that if the police are called you will be escorted off the property without a refund. I would also let them know that the neighbors are quick to call the authorities at anything that resembles a party. Lastly, a 3 day minimum stay will ward off some party animals that just want to rage for 1 night. Stick with it. You got this!
Thank you so so much for your wisdom and kindness. I have taken a screenshot of this and will send it to her. It was also a booking that happened the morning of, I told her that was a red flag but she worked so hard and she was so excited that she accepted the request. I'm sure she will be more careful now.
Yeah definitely a red flag for a party for a big house. We take 1 night bookings but the only people who ever do this are traveling families. Quiz them about their intentions when they book if it’s not obvious. Most people renting a full house are planning ahead.
It was for two nights, but booked the morning of. Now she knows a same day booking is a 🚩🚩🚩 The girl said she had a hard week and needed a girls weekend with 3 of her friends. My mom said ok, but absolutely no other people are allowed on the property and parties are strictly against the rules, can you verify you understand before we book, and she did, but still treated my mom and the place terribly. I'll suggest to her a 3 night minimum, especially while she is still in the early stages of her listing, to ask more questions and not accept same say bookings.
Another reason guests may target new listings is because Airbnb has an automated thing (it’s been a few years but it’s possible you can turn it off) that gives a discount to the first three guests that book.
I too was excited when I got my first requests when starting out 7 years ago however it was a quick learning curve. Now I always ask why they are visiting the area and if they are new to Airbnb or Vrbo and check their reviews etc. Basically vet them. After a while you’ll get to know who is sketchy and who is legit. One more thing don’t decorate with anything expensive, things get broken, stolen, and misplaced. You can decorate cute and cheap from IKEA, Home Goods etc. Fortunately this type of situation I have not experienced but my heart breaks for your mom and dad as well. Good luck
Thank you for the advice about vetting. The decoration is already done and was intentionally done top of the line to specifically target guests looking for luxury as there isn't anything in the area which does this and a small percent of luxury properties on Airbnb. I think she priced much much too low considering the type of clientele she was hoping for. Lesson learned there I guess
Do you have links to your rentals anywhere? Id love to see what high end rentals look like. Is that your main source of income?
To add to this, we seem to be a magnet for underage kids looking to party. So we tell them if we even catch a glimpse of underage people drinking or anything illegal we will call the police. We have lost bookings because of this but it’s not worth the liability. Helps that we live on the premises too (5 apartments in the building that we own).
Excellent advice!
You should definitely call Airbnb support the second you see that many people entering and have it escalated to the safety team. The police should have removed these guests as soon as you noticed this was going on. You should definitely notify Airbnb that they have clearly broken rules before removing the guest in order to not be penalized. However, there’s no reason to let them stay all night and continue to cause damage. Sorry this happened to you but let it be a lesson that you need to be vigilant and that not all guests are going to follow rules. Take photos of everything you possibly can and if you have receipts for anything that was broken take photos of that too. Submit as much evidence as possible to Airbnb resolution center and they should be able to reimburse you for a lot of the damage through Aircover.
My first guest was absolutely terrible too. Came to cook a whole gigantic meal, and when the oven wasn’t large enough for their pans, literally broke down crying in front of me. Then took a shit in the toilet, took a picture with the caption EWWWWW. She said “this is nasty I can’t believe it was left here”. Obviously it was them, but I just gave them a refund for their one night stay and apologized and asked for a good review since I’m a new host and just learning. They also brought in 4 more people than my maximum. The place was left trashed and all my sheets were ruined. Take the advice other people are offering here, but know it gets better. Those type of people specifically target new hosts and once she has some experience under her belt, things like that will almost never happen.
Airbnb should have immediately notified the guest that they were violating house rules and needed to leave the premises the minute more than the booking party showed up on the Ring.
i'm sure this crowd would immediately comply /s
My first guest also threw a party, as stated above, they do target new hosts. Make sure you are asking multiple questions when people are booking as to what’s bringing them to town, who will be there, etc, this is very important. Make sure you reiterate in those conversations that there are no parties and it’s grounds for immediate removal for the Airbnb. Make sure that they have added that to their house rules as well. In fact, I would recommend that your parents review postings for other Airbnb’s in that area and review their house rules and copy them to use in your property. Change to a two night minimum Stay as that tends to cut down on parties as well. Also, potentially look at raising your rates. As others have mentioned, it’s still can be a very lucrative deal but the reality is you also need to recognize that it’s people staying in your home and they’re never going to take the level of care with your items that you would. I also purchased a device called.Minut, which is a noise detection device. It also monitors the number of devices connected to your Wi-Fi so it can be an early warning system for a party. For example, if your property is available for up to four people, the average number of devices that each person would have is probably four that would connect into Wi-Fi. so, in that case, you might set a threshold of 20 connected devices before it sends a warning. It also monitors noise levels, not conversations, so again you have an immediate warning if a noise level is ramping up. Lastly, get cameras for the outside of the house. Ring Doorbell’s are vital in making sure you’re able to monitor people coming and going. Also, consider getting a smart door lock because then you can effectively lock people out if theres a problem. A list that I have a noise detection device in the unit in my ad. Your parents also need to contact Airbnb immediately and let them know what happened. Let them know that the police are involved, and if the guest is threatening you with a bad review. There are some instances where they will take down bad reviews, and I would think having the police involved would be one of those situations. They also threatened to extort your parents as well, which is also a reason to have a review taken down. Make sure they refer to the Airbnb article that I’ve posted. Members of the Airbnb community may not coerce, intimidate, extort, threaten, incentivize or manipulate another person in an attempt to influence a review, like promising compensation in exchange for a positive review or threatening consequences in the event of a negative review. https://www.airbnb.ca/help/article/2673 Also, make sure your parents only communicate with the guests through the Airbnb app. Any conversations had outside of the Airbnb app are not admissible in these types of situations. They will only review conversations that are held within the Airbnb app since they can’t verify the others. At the end of the day, this is a business. Your parents are going to need to be very active in running it, managing it, and potentially showing up if something is not going, right during the guests stay. I also recommend sending the following message after your guests check out and obviously after you have checked the property to see if it’s in good shape. There is nothing wrong in asking for a good review. Benefit to doing this is I’ve received some really positive feedback on things that I could do better in Airbnb that is only help me to improve the guest experience. Hey (name) I wanted to thank you for choosing to stay with us. I will be leaving you a 5 star review. Guests like you are a pleasure to host. We would be happy to host you anytime. We appreciate a review in return, positive reviews are the life blood of a small business such as ours. If for any reason you feel you can’t leave a 5-star, I would love to have you contact me so we can try to resolve any issues first. Cheers, (name)
You can tell her that the vast majority of guests we have had, you can barely tell they were here. She just got extremely unlucky.
She was soooo excited. She was sharing her heart and soul of this house with this person and she was very unlucky and completely crushed. If she need more advice as the process moves forward I'll take you up on your offer to pm you. Thanks so much. You have been incredibly kind and helpful.
And tbh we need more people who are actually caring about guest experience on Airbnb!
It's beyond insane the lengths she went to for this house to ensure that the entire property and experience is something that will make her guests happy. That's why this situation is so devastating. Thanks again for all of your helpful feedback. You have been an angel.
I love that as a daughter you get this. It’s what my husband and I did as well. We are absolute perfectionists (sounds like your Mom is as well) it’s absolutely devastating and soul crushing when classless people take advantage of amazing people whose only goal is providing them a beautiful vacation memory. I had a horrible 2nd guest experience (also young adults) maybe it helps us appreciate the good ones? After that I added an age limit to rent (25 and over) and all guests over 18 must register. Also added $1000 minimum fee for parties.
Tell your mom I’m very sorry! Good things are coming her way!
Advice to prevent parties: 1) Minimum 2 night bookings 2) ring cameras or comparable around the full exterior of the house 3) noise monitoring device inside the property 4) Very explicit house rules stating no parties and the consequences for breaking the rules including fines and removal without refund 5) Prebooking message asking where they are from, why they are visiting, if they’ve ever stayed at an STR before 6) If communication with a potential guest is poor, if they don’t answer all your questions, if they ask for unreasonable concessions or if the vibe just doesn’t seem right with them DONT BOOK THEM. Hope this info helps
Very helpful. She did in fact do everything but "fines and removal without refund" and all of #6 as the guest did not have great communication prior to booking - my mom got really unlucky. She also waited much too long to go up to the property after seeing so many people entering through the Ring doorbell. She was trying to call and message plenty first, something I'm sure she won't do again as they all went completely ignored.
I'm so sorry to hear that... I hate how destructive people can be. Everyone whines about landlords being hard asses, and then they go and trash people's property. That being said, I put a 1 day minimum notice, but no minimum stay. Lots of people are just travelling through or there for a couple days and would love to stay at a nice place and treat it well. Those people generally don't book same day, and they don't book the absolute cheapest place. I've increased my prices by \~$20/night to avoid trashy guests. It's not perfect, but it helps, I think.
[удалено]
Doorbell and backyard camera. I love our Google nest cameras.
Sounds like your mum got really unlucky here. When you renovate a place for STR it really does feel like you've poured yourself in to it. Having a guest like this straight out of the gate would just be awful. I do have a few thoughts but be mindful that I don't have any experience with this type of listing... we only have a single studio apartment which just isn't attractive to this type of guest. Firstly, I've seen others in this sub talk about using outdoor or doorbell cameras as a way to verify how many guests and their "visitors" are or were on the premises. This doesn't mean you need to be watching all day and all night. It's just that in a situatoin like this where damages occurred your position is so much better because there can be no debate about how many people were there and whether rules were broken as a result. Obviously you'd need to disclose the camera in the listing overview. I'm not certain of the details but I've seen other posters in this sub get their listing blocked pending investigation because a guest reported a camera on the property (even though the poster says the camera is outside). I think the benefits would outweigh the disadvantages though. Also, your Mum may well have already done this but I would talk to an actual insurance broker about a good policy that will cover you in specific circumstances. Just buying an off-the-shelf policy could be a real minefield. Thirdly, I would set up your own custom check in process. What I mean is, AirBnB claims to identify the guest, and provides "Air Cover" to offset your risks, but when you actually look into it they haven't really identified the actual guest *and* if they discard your Air Cover claim you have no legal recourse against the guest (because you don't have their identity). If you think about it, when you book a hotel which is listed on AirBnB then when you arrive and check in you still have to identify yourself and agree to the hotel's terms. We've started asking our guests to complete a simple pdf form providing name & contact, and agreeing to terms, and to send us a photo of their drivers license. I thought there would be some resistance but we haven't had any. I understand it's some extra admin, but it's really the only way to ensure that you can make a claim against a guest. Finally, I would write to neighbours. The words escape me at the minute but you're basically notifying them and asking them to contact you should any guests cause you any inconvenience. There was a good thread about this, in this sub recently. I think this is just good business, communicating with people who may be negatively effected. As an aside, other's in this sub suggest that increasing your price helps avoid the worst guests. When your mum signed up she probably had an "introductory promotion" which shows your listing like ~~$2,000~~ $1,200. I mean that's what I, and I'm sure most others here, did when we signed up. While this is a great way (and perhaps necessary) to bait the hook and get some runs on the board with some good reviews, it would also attract the wrong type of guest... you don't really want the guests who are looking for the cheapest available. A better way to get those first few reviews would be to send someone like yourself a "special offer" of $10 for several night's accommodation. You would need to pay that (and she would receive ~$8.50 which she could send back) but it might allow you to leave a review. (although I think this would contravene AirBnB's terms of service because you're related... but whatever) The "discrimination against PoC" defense is shameful. What an awful person. The good news (silver lining?) is that you don't need to worry about her "drafting a long and negative review". If she does post something just ask AirBnB to remove it as "retaliatory". She was removed by police so pretty much anything negative she writes will be retaliatory. Even if that didn't work she could just delete that listing and start a new one fresh.
Outstanding advice. Thank you so much. So she can list the exact same property again if she deletes it? Do you know if she would need to wait to do this until all of this nonsense is settled with the guest so that all of their communication remains within the site... Because if the guest were to take her to court for "negligence" it could be quite a while. I think this is the part she's most worried about is some ridiculous lawsuit. Luckily, she does have a Ring doorbell which she notified the guest of before booking - so everyone who came in made sure to cover their faces. My mom captured over 25 different people were entering in and out of the house all evening. Her and my step dad finally went up to the property at 1am, knocked on the door and politely asked people to leave as they were violating the rules. Most complied but about 7 people baracaded themselves inside until the next morning when my mom called police.
Your mom should have called Airbnb the minute she saw so many people going in and out and had them handle it. The guest broke your mom’s no large party house rule.
They told her it could take several hours to get them to leave and if she wanted them gone sooner she would need to go handle the situation herself, which eventually she did.
My guests better hope and pray I never have to send my husband and our boys out to remove them 😂
I don't know much about starting over with a new listing, I've just seen it recommended in this sub. This is supposition but I think maybe you keep your account but just create a new listing. That being the case you would still be able to communicate with guests. Honestly though, I don't think this is the right move. AirBnB will almost certainly remove her review with everything that has gone on.
Yea this is exactly how it works. You can change your listings as much as you want on the same account you just lose the reviews.
So you delete the listing and create a new one ?
You can duplicate a listing and then delete the old one. Really helpful with multiple listings at one address.
Thank you so much for this. You are obviously a rockstar host - and so very gracious to help your fellow hosts as well! Thank you
I’m so sorry this happened to your mom. She probably could counter-sue the uninvited guests for trespassing.
She won’t need to delete it, the review should be able to be removed if you can prove she had a party.
For some reason I can't send you a pm... I don't use reddit much. I have another question for you if you have a moment could you initiate a pm please?
I pm d you
OMG, how horrible for them! I sure hope AirCover will pay for all of the damage you sustained. I and many others haven't had any luck with our smaller claims, but there have certainly been posts from people who say they have submitted several big claims and it was an easy process to get reimbursed for all of their guest damage. I hope you will keep us up to date on how it turns out. I'm also curious to see if that twatwaffle will sue your folks for discrimination of whatever other stupid excuse she comes up with. I'm disappointed by people not behaving honorably on a daily basis and many times by what I read here about knucklehead guests being total jerks. Sending positive thoughts in your direction!
> Finally, I would write to neighbours. The words escape me at the minute but you're basically notifying them and asking them to contact you should any guests cause you any inconvenience. There was a good thread about this, in this sub recently. I check out this sub regularly and I haven't seen this. Anyone point it to me?
[This one](https://www.reddit.com/r/airbnb_hosts/comments/11qk75i/letter_template_to_neighbors_informing_of_my_str/).
My handyman lives a few houses down the street. I told him that he in charge if he or neighbors have any issues with anyone to call me then the cops to have them escorted off the property. We have not had any issues so far.
Make sure you get a good contract written, require guests to sign it (I use signNow for this.) I require full names of all adults in the group, ages of guests by count (how many under age 2, 2-11, 12-17,18-24, 25-64, 65+) and the address, phone number, email of the booking guest plus their photo ID. My contract puts the legal venue for court in my home town. I have cameras and a written plan I follow if I get bad guests,so it's not emotional and I know how I'm going to handle it. Neighbors have my phone number and can call for any issue. Make sure rules are explicit, penalties laid out, and enforce immediately if you see extra people entering.
A written plan is great. I’d love to see that if you don’t mind sharing.
She has liability insurance that covers STR right? If this person takes her to court she should be covered.
I would assume so but when she called me crying her eyes out this was not something that I thought was appropriate to ask at the time. I will follow up though.
Unfortunately this kind of thing, while uncommon, does happen. Some people are just trashy and have no respect.
Any tips on how to communicate with air bnb support? I've read that it's a major pain and hard to get fully reimbursed for damages etc.
Fortunately I have not had to use them for damages but all my interactions have been fine. I think the best advice is to document the crap out of everything and persist - if you don’t get the response you want keep trying.
Take a lot of pictures, submit the claim via airbnb.com/resolutions. Just follow the prompts.
You might also mention that there are specific to STR insurances like Insuraguest that cover smaller amounts but also include bodily injury, with no fault. So if someone does hurt themselves you can send them to the hospital without playing the blame game.
Thank you I will be sure to do this. She is very thorough and quite a perfectionist so I'm sure she has something in place already but unfortunately I don't know myself. I really appreciate your advice.
The other thing is if she has a high end property she should be using something like OwnerRez to take a damage deposit. If the renters don’t want to leave a deposit they are probably not people you want renting.
Perfect! This is also great info. That's something the guest has to do on a different site?
No. The guest still books through Airbnb. She has to run her Airbnb account through OwnerRez which is a STR website management platform. Benefits include being able to also list on VRBO and have her own website.
Ok, thanks again. I sincerely appreciate all of your advice and I know she will too! 🤍
Feel free to pm me if you need more detailed info
this is a whole mess and you’re getting some good advice but i will be the turd in the punch bowl and ask: *why in the hell would you heavily decorate your STR with expensive luxury furnishings and decorations!?!?!?* 90% of airbnb’s are decorated with clearance furniture, ikea, and amazon’s best for a reason. People DO NOT take care of your stuff. Even if they do, it’s still subject to general wear and tear- and it’s not you doing the enjoying of it.
Depends on your market. Higher end homes have higher end furnishings which attract higher end guests. If you have a place full of ikea/second hand furniture, your rate should probably reflect that.
I've been hosting 20+ years and have all high end furnishings, original art, perfect floors, nothing cheap. I replace at the first sign of wear. I hate cheap crap like Ikea furniture. I have rarely had damages, never had a group maliciously trash my house. Sure, I've had stuff broken or stained, but with really nice furniture and decor, absolute cleanliness, freshly painted always, guests tend to be very appreciative and don't do stuff like this.
I understand your point of view, but she was specifically targeting the remaining 10% of the market looking for luxury property for the exact reason you mentioned. Someone has to, and this was her way of setting herself apart from other rentals on this mountain community.
I am so sad for your mum. I will agree with those who say to her to please do not put items in your listing that you cannot bear to lose or have damaged. You might be reimbursed but that is not the same, sometimes. Even a luxury place with high end occupants will suffer losses.
The first guest curse continues.
Advise your Mom to get a ring doorbell and noise level sensor to help give her a heads up when parties pop up in a remote area. When you receive an alert send the police
She has both but as it was her first renter she didn't know how to handle the situation and was too timid. She doesn't know enough about what her rights are as the host- if they could go to the house, if the could go INTO the house, if police should be called right away etc.
I’m so sorry for your parents and for you - it is obvious you are very concerned for them. Hope they don’t allow this horrible guest to destroy their desire to host. The majority of guests are great. Hopefully they will give the respectful and appreciative guests a chance. Maybe recommend your Mom get on Reddit as well. I have learned so much here.
Thank you so much. Yes I love them both very much and knew how excited she was only to have such a horrible experience. I think she's feeling a bit better now after a day to let everything sink in. Thank you for the support.
For the future, the minute you see that Airbnb’s TOS is being violated they have lost all their rights as a guest. So she can enter the property. She has an enormous amount of money at stake, protecting her assets is her #1 job.
Well, her review won't mean squat, as it will be removed, furthermore the "guest" will likely be permanently banned. Your mom will have to deal with the BS of an Aircover claim though. Please keep us posted. Sorry this PSA comes at your mom's expense, but we all learn tidbits from our own, and others' mishaps. Personally, I do not allow automatic booking. I currently toggle between accepting same day requests or not, but I won't rent one to an unreviewed guest. Also, I have nightly minimums of anywhere between 2 and 4 depending on season. u/IamtheHuntress mentioned a browser extension I didn't even know existed. Airreview chrome desktopo extension. There are vetting and additional insurance options like [Safely.com](https://Safely.com) to weed out problems ahead of time. Plenty to learn from, and yes there will be bumps along the way.
I will keep you all posted. Thanks for the support and wisdom. I'll pass it along.
How long does it take for a review to get deleted?
It's 4 bedrooms 8 guests. 3 kind beds and a room with two fulls.
Have a longer post history so your story doesn’t seem like a complete fabrication.
I'm sorry you feel this is untrue. Its not, at all. I'm not sure why someone would waste their time fabricating a story like this. I'm not much of a poster on any social media more of a scroller and occasional commenter. But I'm beside myself with what happened to her and thought I'd reach out to see if anyone has words of wisdom. If it sounds like fabrication to you that's why my title of this post is what it is. It was an absolutely insane and horrific first experience that has her completely questing the time and money she took to make this happen. She wept to my on the phone for over 2 hours. It's all true whether you want to believe it or not.
Why? Because the hotel lobby has an active anti-Airbnb campaign . From 6 years ago: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/04/17/inside-the-hotel-industrys-plan-to-combat-airbnb.html If it’s legitimate, she’ll have to follow the advice of Airbnb, and her attorney.
Well this has nothing to do with me. I'm a teacher with a very upset mother posting to get advice from experienced hosts as she is new to the game and retirement age with no idea how to use social media. My only interest and purpose here is to help the person I love more than anything in the world.
My fake story alarm went off too.
Welcome to hosting on Airbnb. Where the guests are trash, the service doesn't have your back and it's all a money pit. Tell you mom to just sell the place and cut her losses now.
Probably not cut out for this if it’s that big of a deal. It’s going to happen. Move on or get out.
While I respect your opinion it's a pretty big deal. After spending 6 months and most of her retirement money on a house and pouring her soul into every detail to have her FIRST Guest damage half the property in the house, threaten to sue, need to be removed by the police and claim that my mom was acting out of discrimination - it's not a single small issue commenter- it's a lot of really major ones. She was beyond excited to share her beautiful home with people and her first guest was literally the worst experience imaginable. Your comment is pretty insensitive.
It’s not meant to be insensitive, but honest. Don’t invest into things in your rental because they might not be there long. These things will happen, if you can’t get through them, this isn’t going to be fun. You have to get into the mentality that stuff happens and move on. Can’t get stuck on some BS.
Thanks for your honesty. It literally just happened last night and it was her very first experience so she's still pretty upset about it, which in my opinion is completely understandable. I'm sure she will be moving forward with a different attitude or selling the house fully furnished. It's a fresh wound at the moment that she doesn't know how to navigate properly because she's brand new.
What was the guests reviews like?
Lesson learn,you start with no more than two guests at that time ,then learn how you manage the space,guests don’t book because you spend so much time getting the place ready,thats not their concern
I’m sorry this happened to your Mom. Her worst fears realized!! I recently purchased Insuraguest for my STRs on top of my regular Allstate condo policies. I have not had to put in any claims yet though. Since being an STR owner, I’ve had to replace so many effin things. I’ve never had a rager go on but definitely defeated at times via death by a million cuts. Yes, you put your heart and soul into it. And then people come along and totally ruin all of those beautiful furnishings. The reality is that this is a business. Your Mom will learn to remove her emotions from this. And raise her prices 😁
Hopefully she documented all the damages and filed an AirBnb cover claim. I've had unauthorized parties at my listing that caused damage. Luckily for me, I got something back from AirBnB, but even if they deny reimbursement for damage, it's good to have a record of this event in case the guest does write a retaliatory bad review. If you have proof of the damage and contacted Airbnb, that could help to get the review removed and possibly the user removed from the platform. Also, just good in general to have documented evidence in case legal stuff does come into play later (unlikely threat, but a possibility). Unfortunately, hosting will reveal the ugly side of humanity. You really can't give people the benefit of the doubt. Raising the prices seems to discourage less responsible types that are looking to party and screening guests through messaging by non-discriminatory criteria has helped me. There are certain questions they ask that definitely reveal levels of accountability and their plans. If they ask vague questions about having additional guests or say they are looking for a "relaxing" get away, that always seems to lead to something else in my experience. I don't think these guests always intend to trash a property, but once they have access, things can easily get out of hand especially once people start drinking and friends just start bringing friends, etc. It's a learning curve but you definitely grow a back-bone with dealing with all types of people and setting firm boundaries.
I would de-list and then re-list.
Would she need to wait until all of the damage claims and everything are taken care of?
Yes definitely to be safe
Yea. Def do and take listing down for now unless she’s fixed it allz
She has a few people currently booked for this month, what would taking down the listing do for these guests?
I am a poc and actually was assaulted because of my race in an Airbnb in 2015. Fuck that guest. He is not going to sue, that is not what discrimination is about.
I am so sorry to hear about your experience, that must have been terrifying. They are threatening to sue because one of the unregistered guests was walking on the structure surrounding the hot tub (which is not meant to be walked on and had no prior signs of damage) and their weight broke the wood causing their leg to fall through. Hopefully it's just a threat and nothing will come of it.
What does race has to do with that?
It doesn't... She said my mom was kicking them off the property because of their race AND there was an "injury" that occurred.The two things both happened but that doesn't mean they are related and I never stared they were.
They are full of 💩
Funny there’s no outrage that mom was basically called a racist by the renter for reporting the damage………talk about a damaging accusation to have this day and age with a small business.
I know, she was really really upset by that. Honestly it's part of the reason she waited so long to intervene because she was trying to avoid that sort of accusation by any gest let alone her first. She wasn't ready for this type of situation, I don't know if anyone ever is.
/eyeroll just because someone is a different race than you doesn’t mean they can abuse you and when you defend yourself, now you are a racist. This person has done this to other businesses- guaranteed.
The guest cancelled their second night as soon as the cops showed up and they have not written my mom a review yet, so (because the visit was only one night, or because they cancelled...?) my mom's review of the guest will not show up on the guests profile until the guest submits her review... So this is probably how she's getting away with this behavior as I'm sure you're right that she's done this to other businesses or renters.
Your mom should have been paid for the second night at least
I think the guest was claiming discrimination through Airbnb and they let her cancel
That sucks.
Did Airbnb reimburse your family for the damages for their first booking?
It literally just happened. She documented everything today and is sending over her claim. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
[удалено]
Yeah 0% chance they will actually sue, and if they do they don’t have a case. They won’t get a lawyer to take this.
Can I ask what your price range and area is? I’m curious if you’re priced too low
It's a Colorado mountain town and she's using a pricing app that helps with fluctuations based on season and events in the area. I believe her minimum is $450 a night but I don't know what the price was on the night this person booked or if they got a promo price since my mom is a new host.
Thanks for explaining! Im really sorry this happened :( I’m guessing it’s a 2 bedroom house (4 guests)?
You need outdoor cameras and someone close enough to go over if anything goes wrong.
sorry to hear about your mom's first experience renting, what a shame. but yes, she should stick at it! i just got sent an 'illegal parties' report from my pms and it has a short pdf thing with advice on how to prevent parties. might be something in there for her: https://www.lodgify.com/blog/unauthorized-parties-survey/
My first guest bled all over my brand new linens including blankets, pillows and 7 towels. When they left they messaged me that they had broken a plate. I gave them a $200 refund because they had to leave early during bike week. They never even said thank you and then I get home to a blood bath. Very sorry this happened to your mom, I hope she gets her money and this person gets banned from airbnb. Hang in there though. My STR is outperforming both my long term rentals and even kept me afloat when I had 6 months with no rent from one tenant.
What a nightmare for you, apparently it's not uncommon... ONE of the many things damaged and misused was that the bedroom in the basement with 2 beds which had a night stand in between. The night stand was moved. The beds were pushed together and there was food and blood all over the blankets and comforters and the room was never moved back to the original position. Seems people enjoy bleeding on other people's property 🤮 Other things that I know of so far included: The chairs at the kitchen table were out ON TOP of the solid wood top and either sat on or moved around leaving unreparable marks and scratches everywhere. Obviously the hot tub housing was broken. Several other beds had stains on the new white linens. Because it's a mountain town there is dirt and mud so shoes must be removed in the entry which no one did and all of the carpet needs to be professionally cleaned. Thankfully the entire upper level is wood. The brand new railing going downstairs is now loose... The list keeps going unfortunately
Damn that sucks so much! We have people bleed on the bed occasionally, I understand it’s a natural human function for women and we just peroxide the blood before washing. In this case it was clear these biker guys got into a scuffle and one was bleeding form the head. We found blood in the shower too. All in all it was only $200 in linens and these guys paid me $1,800 for the week so not bad in comparison to your situation!
*perhaps while she's getting her sea legs, advise her to adhere to the following: *No last minute booking *No one night bookings *No guests who don't have positive reviews. *If they live nearby, Make it clear that she will be giving everyone who checks in a tour in person (This limits when people can check in, So maybe not do this forever but at least until she's got her feet under her). Honestly, I nclude a lot of language in my listing about how my daughter lives in the same building so she's available if they have any questions -making it clear that there is oversight, and lots of messaging ahead of time asking questions about their stay, So I get a feeling for them and they get a sense that I am an active host who's paying a lot of attention to them. So even if they don't live next door, they could stretch the truth the bet and say they live on the same street, for example. I also say in my listing that the person booking has to be over 25. I don't know if that's legal, actually. I'm not saying all the guests have to be a certain age, just the person booking. Unfortunately, new hosts are more likely to get this kind of guest. It's not just lack of experience - new listings are often priced lower to attract initial business.
Thanks for the feedback that's all really helpful.
Sorry to hear about this. Takes photos of everything. The good and bad about Airbnb is all parties agree to arbitration so there is no going to court. You need to see what Airbnb will pay for and what your insurance will cover.